Groups > comp.lang.java.programmer > #21194

Re: java software naming question

Newsgroups	comp.lang.java.programmer
Date	2013-01-07 21:46 -0800
References	<396e3ff0-2a44-4d8b-917c-3b9205a567a6@googlegroups.com> <akvme8hvekujkgdt0ndjq0g827qa817fk5@4ax.com> <b094ad0b-ff6d-446c-aeee-766ec9560f1d@googlegroups.com> <n55ne8pq1e5i65fb0mfrfu3tjp3u5a7mvv@4ax.com>
Message-ID	<2c3b1254-ef4e-4fee-b4eb-1eb6a1278bc6@googlegroups.com> (permalink)
Subject	Re: java software naming question
From	Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com>

Show all headers | View raw

Roedy Green wrote:
> Lew wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said :
>> So how is that "obsessed with gender"?
> 
> Consider the sentence.
> He made a pot of  Sumatran coffee.
> She made a pot of Sumatran coffee.
> 
> I am constrained by English to specify the flavour of genitals of the

Well, you aren't, really, 

> coffee maker even though it is completely irrelevant to the process of
> making coffee.  That I call obsession with gender.

and that really is an overblown interpretation.

Do you deny there is a difference between males and females?

So those sentences provide descriptive specificity. Oh, and they don't 
refer to genitalia; that's *your* obsession.

If you want gender-neutrality the usual is to say "they". As in "There 
was one person there, and they made a pot of Sumatran coffee.

So for at least half a millennium English has had a widely-accepted idiom 
for not specifying the gender of who made the coffee.

Other languages make *every single noun* have a gender, not just ones that
describe humans or other animals, who at least actually have gender in the 
real world, despite your attempt to suppress that.

Again, the obsession is not in English, but in the beholder.

> English has another obsession.  I discovered it when I learned
> Esperanto which is even more obsessed.  TIME.  You can't talk about

Esperanto is an artificial language.

> anything happening without specifying past, present, future. You can

Again, that is not uncommon among languages. Can you use a verb without 
tense in French?

> though say that something habitually happens, without specifying when.

Urdu?

> You can in Chinese. If tense is important to be explicit, you add some
> adverb.  E.g., I come tomorrow.

Basque?

> You notice Asian speakers, often say strange things like
> my wife, he sick.
> Frog die.
> Please give 12 egg.

So foreigners' difficulty with English is evidence that English has obsessions?

> To them gender, tense, and plurality need not be specified. They are
> implied.
> 
> Esperanto is like English in its concern with precise tense, gender
> and plurality.  It has some other obsessions of its own, roughly
> equivalent to direct/indirect object though it has many other uses.

You realize that "obsession" is a psychological term, correct?

Languages do not have psyches.

> I suppose Mandarin might become the next interlanguage as English
> fades.  Bahasa Indonesia was an early attempt at an interlanguage

What evidence do you have that English will fade?

> devised by traders moving between thousands of islands. It is easy to
> pronounce, and has a  relatively simple grammar.

Common among all Pidgins, which spring up everywhere, not just in Indonesia.

> I don't know much about Mandarin other than the code I wrote at
> http://mindprod.com/products.html#INWORDS to convert integers into
> words, including Mandarin. It was the simplest of all languages I
> tackled (Icelandic was the hairiest). I gather the difficulties are
> pronunciation and the many many synonyms for the same word.
> (Makes for great fun with puns).

Thank you for sharing your linguistic expertise.

-- 
Lew

Thread

java software naming question mcheung63@gmail.com - 2013-01-07 01:11 -0800
  Re: java software naming question "Aryeh M. Friedman" <Aryeh.Friedman@gmail.com> - 2013-01-07 01:21 -0800
  Re: java software naming question "Aryeh M. Friedman" <Aryeh.Friedman@gmail.com> - 2013-01-07 01:26 -0800
  Re: java software naming question Muco <muco@nomail.com> - 2013-01-07 20:38 +1100
    Re: java software naming question Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2013-01-07 11:12 -0800
  Re: java software naming question Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2013-01-07 07:03 -0800
    Re: java software naming question "Aryeh M. Friedman" <Aryeh.Friedman@gmail.com> - 2013-01-07 07:08 -0800
    Re: java software naming question Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2013-01-07 08:34 -0800
      Re: java software naming question Magnus Warker <magnus@mailinator.com> - 2013-01-07 18:26 +0100
        Re: java software naming question markspace <markspace@nospam.nospam> - 2013-01-07 10:54 -0800
          Re: java software naming question "Chris Uppal" <chris.uppal@metagnostic.REMOVE-THIS.org> - 2013-01-07 19:41 +0000
            Re: java software naming question Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2013-01-07 17:13 -0500
              Re: java software naming question Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2013-01-07 18:44 -0800
              Re: java software naming question Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2013-01-07 19:37 -0800
        Re: java software naming question Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2013-01-07 19:33 -0800
          Re: java software naming question Mark <i@dontgetlotsofspamanymore.invalid> - 2013-01-08 09:39 +0000
            Re: java software naming question Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-08 20:26 -0500
              Re: java software naming question Mark <i@dontgetlotsofspamanymore.invalid> - 2013-01-09 09:32 +0000
                Re: java software naming question Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-09 18:41 -0500
                Re: java software naming question Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2013-01-09 16:23 -0800
                Re: java software naming question Mark <i@dontgetlotsofspamanymore.invalid> - 2013-01-10 09:44 +0000
                Re: java software naming question lipska the kat <"nospam at neversurrender dot co dot uk"> - 2013-01-10 10:16 +0000
                Re: java software naming question Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-12 17:07 -0500
                Re: java software naming question Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-12 17:03 -0500
  Re: java software naming question Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2013-01-07 11:11 -0800
    Re: java software naming question lipska the kat <lipskathekat@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-01-07 19:48 +0000
    Re: java software naming question Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-07 18:56 -0500
      Re: java software naming question Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2013-01-07 16:05 -0800
  Re: java software naming question Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-07 18:55 -0500
  Re: java software naming question Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2013-01-07 18:04 -0800
    Re: java software naming question Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2013-01-07 18:33 -0800
      Re: java software naming question Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2013-01-07 19:57 -0800
        Re: java software naming question Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2013-01-07 20:11 -0800
        Re: java software naming question Joshua Cranmer <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> - 2013-01-07 23:05 -0600
          Re: java software naming question Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2013-01-09 09:40 -0800
            Re: java software naming question Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2013-01-09 11:18 -0800
              Re: java software naming question Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2013-01-09 11:59 -0800
                Re: java software naming question Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2013-01-09 23:20 -0800
                Re: java software naming question Stuart <DerTopper@web.de> - 2013-01-10 09:32 +0100
              Re: java software naming question Joshua Cranmer <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> - 2013-01-10 01:09 -0600
            Re: java software naming question Joshua Cranmer <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> - 2013-01-09 23:59 -0600
              Re: java software naming question Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2013-01-09 23:36 -0800
        Re: java software naming question Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2013-01-07 21:46 -0800
      Re: java software naming question Joshua Cranmer <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> - 2013-01-07 21:58 -0600
        Re: java software naming question Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2013-01-08 00:19 -0800
        Re: java software naming question Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2013-01-08 00:22 -0800
          Re: java software naming question "Aryeh M. Friedman" <Aryeh.Friedman@gmail.com> - 2013-01-08 00:30 -0800
            Re: java software naming question Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2013-01-09 09:41 -0800
            Re: java software naming question Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2013-01-09 10:51 -0800
              Re: java software naming question Joshua Cranmer <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> - 2013-01-09 23:27 -0600
          Re: java software naming question Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2013-01-08 07:07 -0800
            Re: java software naming question Joshua Cranmer <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> - 2013-01-08 09:31 -0600
              Re: java software naming question Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2013-01-08 07:36 -0800
          Re: java software naming question Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2013-01-08 08:47 -0800
            Re: java software naming question Stuart <DerTopper@web.de> - 2013-01-08 21:56 +0100
              Re: java software naming question Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2013-01-08 13:04 -0800
            Re: java software naming question Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2013-01-08 14:14 -0800
              Re: java software naming question Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2013-01-08 15:19 -0800
              Re: java software naming question Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2013-01-08 16:22 -0800
              Re: java software naming question Mark <i@dontgetlotsofspamanymore.invalid> - 2013-01-09 09:34 +0000
              Re: java software naming question Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2013-01-09 09:50 -0800
                Re: java software naming question Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2013-01-09 10:10 -0800
                Re: java software naming question Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2013-01-09 10:49 -0800
            Re: java software naming question Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-01-08 20:37 -0500
        Re: java software naming question Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2013-01-08 00:26 -0800
          Re: java software naming question Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2013-01-08 07:12 -0800
            Re: java software naming question Joshua Cranmer <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> - 2013-01-08 09:27 -0600
              Re: java software naming question Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2013-01-08 07:32 -0800
                Re: java software naming question Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2013-01-09 09:55 -0800
                Re: java software naming question Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2013-01-09 12:53 -0800
                Re: java software naming question Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2013-01-09 23:37 -0800
              Re: java software naming question Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2013-01-08 08:50 -0800
          Re: java software naming question Joshua Cranmer <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> - 2013-01-08 09:26 -0600
            Re: java software naming question Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2013-01-09 09:59 -0800
              Re: java software naming question Joshua Cranmer <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> - 2013-01-09 23:31 -0600
    Re: java software naming question "Aryeh M. Friedman" <Aryeh.Friedman@gmail.com> - 2013-01-08 00:24 -0800
  Re: java software naming question johnjagu25@gmail.com - 2013-01-08 08:39 -0800

csiph-web