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Eclipse: Folding Code Blocks More Specific Than Methods?

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  Eclipse:  Folding Code Blocks More Specific Than Methods? Steve <tinker123@gmail.com> - 2013-05-02 13:30 -0400
    Re: Eclipse:  Folding Code Blocks More Specific Than Methods? Joerg Meier <joergmmeier@arcor.de> - 2013-05-02 20:30 +0200
    Re: Eclipse:  Folding Code Blocks More Specific Than Methods? Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2013-05-02 12:35 -0700
      Re: Eclipse:  Folding Code Blocks More Specific Than Methods? Steve <tinker123@gmail.com> - 2013-05-02 17:59 -0400
    Re: Eclipse:  Folding Code Blocks More Specific Than Methods? Daniel Pitts <newsgroup.nospam@virtualinfinity.net> - 2013-05-02 15:12 -0700
      Re: Eclipse:  Folding Code Blocks More Specific Than Methods? Steve <tinker123@gmail.com> - 2013-05-03 09:23 -0400
        Re: Eclipse:  Folding Code Blocks More Specific Than Methods? Daniel Pitts <newsgroup.nospam@virtualinfinity.net> - 2013-05-03 11:32 -0700
          Re: Eclipse:  Folding Code Blocks More Specific Than Methods? Steve <tinker123@gmail.com> - 2013-05-03 16:53 -0400
            Re: Eclipse:  Folding Code Blocks More Specific Than Methods? Daniel Pitts <newsgroup.nospam@virtualinfinity.net> - 2013-05-03 20:46 -0700

#2698 — Eclipse: Folding Code Blocks More Specific Than Methods?

I'm new to Eclipse.

I haven't found a way to fold blocks of code in Java smaller than a method.

I have a legacy project to maintain with huge and frequent nested 
conditionals. Refractoring is not an option at this point.

I searched StackOverflow, there was some mention of a plugin called 
Coffee Cup which enhances Eclipse code folding, but the Google site 
where it is hosted said the project is no longer being developed and 
there were no downloads to download.

Can anyone suggest an alternative?

I already have a better IDE, but I want to get used to using Eclipse for 
a while because it seems to be an industry standard.

Thanks

Steve

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#2699

On Thu, 02 May 2013 13:30:09 -0400, Steve wrote:

> I'm new to Eclipse.

> I haven't found a way to fold blocks of code in Java smaller than a method.

> I have a legacy project to maintain with huge and frequent nested 
> conditionals. Refractoring is not an option at this point.

> I searched StackOverflow, there was some mention of a plugin called 
> Coffee Cup which enhances Eclipse code folding, but the Google site 
> where it is hosted said the project is no longer being developed and 
> there were no downloads to download.

> Can anyone suggest an alternative?

There are various custom region code folding plugins for Eclipse available,
though I believe the typical quality is relatively poor. "Eclipse custom
code folding" on Google should bring up helpful links.

Liebe Gruesse,
		Joerg

-- 
Ich lese meine Emails nicht, replies to Email bleiben also leider
ungelesen.

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#2700

Steve wrote:
> I'm new to Eclipse.
> 
> I haven't found a way to fold blocks of code in Java smaller than a method.

Page-down.

> I have a legacy project to maintain with huge and frequent nested 
> conditionals. Refractoring is not an option at this point.

Get used to reading messy code.

Seriously - this is better, stronger and more sustainable than relying on a plugin.

> I searched StackOverflow, there was some mention of a plugin called
> Coffee Cup which enhances Eclipse code folding, but the Google site 
> where it is hosted said the project is no longer being developed and > 
> there were no downloads to download.
> 
> Can anyone suggest an alternative?

Yeah. Hard work.

> I already have a better IDE, but I want to get used to using Eclipse for 
> a while because it seems to be an industry standard.

Concentrate on the task you have to solve and not the IDE you're using.

Eclipse isn't necessarily the best IDE out there. Yes, it is commonly used, as 
are, for example, NetBeans and IntelliJ. I don't know that it requires any depth 
of knowledge to use Eclipse effectively. Personally I use it the same way as any 
other IDE and try not to rely too much on Eclipse-specific features.

I also never fold code. Comments occasionally, but not code. Really, just learn to 
read the code. So it's tough. It's easier than tarring roofs.

-- 
Lew

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#2701

On Thursday May 02 3:35 PM, Lew wrote:
> Steve wrote:
>> I'm new to Eclipse.
>>
>> I haven't found a way to fold blocks of code in Java smaller than a method.
>
> Page-down.

Now, that is useful information.

There is no graphical indication that anything is folded up, just 
disappeared line numbers, but it isn't a bad price for not having to 
deal with a plugin.

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#2702

On 5/2/13 10:30 AM, Steve wrote:
> I'm new to Eclipse.
>
> I haven't found a way to fold blocks of code in Java smaller than a method.
>
> I have a legacy project to maintain with huge and frequent nested
> conditionals. Refractoring is not an option at this point.
Perhaps "refactoring" isn't an option, but "clean-as-you-go" should 
always be an option.  For instance, "introduce method" is invaluable for 
nested/confusing conditionals or ugly blocks of code.
> Can anyone suggest an alternative?

IntelliJ ;-)
I have nothing against eclipse, other than I haven't really used it.  I 
have found IntelliJ to be a great and worthwhile IDE, to the point where 
I would use it even if it wasn't "standard" or "supported" on the 
projects I was working on.
>
> I already have a better IDE, but I want to get used to using Eclipse for
> a while because it seems to be an industry standard.
Meh. It's free and better than Visual Studios and xcode combined. That 
doesn't mean its a good IDE, it just means its "above average".

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#2703

On Thursday May 02 6:12 PM, Daniel Pitts wrote:

>
> IntelliJ ;-)

Like I wrote,  I already have a better IDE ( Visual Slickedit ) than 
Eclipse.


I am learning Eclipse because it is defacto "industry standard" and I 
think knowing it well could help me fit in at different shops.  Many 
tutorials on the web are also videos or screenshots of eclipse, so I see 
value in myself becoming personally familiar with it.


I've read a lot of people recommending IntelliJ.   I might just try it 
out someday, but I doubt if I would use it.   It is about $200 for a 
personal license.

I've been using Visual Slickedit for about 14 years, paying $300 each 
time I get a new version.   If I completely migrate to another IDE, my 
bias would toward one that is free or much lower in cost.   That is a 
big If.  IntelliJ is written in Java, which will make it slower than 
Visual Slickedit, which I believe is written in C and compiled.   Visual 
Slickedit boots fast enough to use it as a text editor for quick notes. 
   IntelliJ would have to have several MUST HAVE features that VSE does 
not.  The VSE company is always soliciting suggestions to keep up so it 
probably wouldn't be long before VSE had it too.

All of which is my excessively verbose way of saying that I don't need a 
better IDE, I'm learning Eclipse to fit in better as a Java programmer 
and since IntelliJ is expensive it would have eons better than Slickedit 
for me to migrate to it.

> I have nothing against eclipse, other than I haven't really used it.

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#2705

On 5/3/13 6:23 AM, Steve wrote:
> On Thursday May 02 6:12 PM, Daniel Pitts wrote:
>
>>
>> IntelliJ ;-)
>
> Like I wrote,  I already have a better IDE ( Visual Slickedit ) than
> Eclipse.
I'll have to check out Visual Slickedit...
>
>
> I am learning Eclipse because it is defacto "industry standard" and I
> think knowing it well could help me fit in at different shops.  Many
> tutorials on the web are also videos or screenshots of eclipse, so I see
> value in myself becoming personally familiar with it.
No harm in being familiar with what "everyone uses". As long as you 
don't use it only for that reason. Use it because you personally find 
value of using it over alternatives.  *Some* of that value will come 
from "everyone uses it", but not all.
>
>
> I've read a lot of people recommending IntelliJ.   I might just try it
> out someday, but I doubt if I would use it.   It is about $200 for a
> personal license.
Yup. I've paid for my own when my company wouldn't, but now my company 
pays for it.  They also have good "upgrade" licenses which reduces the 
TCO over time.
>
> I've been using Visual Slickedit for about 14 years, paying $300 each
> time I get a new version.   If I completely migrate to another IDE, my
> bias would toward one that is free or much lower in cost.   That is a
> big If.  IntelliJ is written in Java, which will make it slower than
> Visual Slickedit, which I believe is written in C and compiled.
Being written in C and compiled does not guarantee being faster than 
being in Java.  Granted, Java (and IntelliJ) do sometimes have 
GC/swapping issues, but that is more about the memory model than the 
compiled code.

>   Visual
> Slickedit boots fast enough to use it as a text editor for quick notes.
>    IntelliJ would have to have several MUST HAVE features that VSE does
> not.  The VSE company is always soliciting suggestions to keep up so it
> probably wouldn't be long before VSE had it too.
The big features in IntelliJ I like is its automatic code completion. 
It is extremely smart about types and scope, it also is camel-case 
aware.  For example, if there is a method MyFoo findMyFoo(), and I want 
the following code written: MyFoo foo = findMyFoo(); The keystrokes I 
need are:
M-F (command-space) foo = (command-space);  if there are other "MyFoo" 
values (other variables or methods), then I need to differentiate 
between them.  It will provide a drop-down to show the ambiguity, but I 
can type "fmf" or "fMF" to narrow it down to findMyFoo".

This might seem like a small gain, but I use it extensively. It's even 
helpful when exploring a new API.  It also has quick pop-up JavaDoc 
viewing which helps for that purpose as well.

Next best feature: Automated Refactoring.  Introduce 
(constant/variable/method) are incredible. They will even automatically 
find duplicate code which can be replaced by the newly created entity. 
Extract Superclass/Interface are also awesome, but need a little more 
oversight.  Push members down/pull members up help with larger 
refactoring tasks.
>
> All of which is my excessively verbose way of saying that I don't need a
> better IDE, I'm learning Eclipse to fit in better as a Java programmer
> and since IntelliJ is expensive it would have eons better than Slickedit
> for me to migrate to it.
IntelliJ has free versions now too. The expensive version provides a few 
nice-to-haves in enterprise level development (better XML folding, 
Spring support, webapp support).  While I use those features, they 
aren't what sold me the product.
>
>> I have nothing against eclipse, other than I haven't really used it.
I haven't used it in a while. Years probably.  I recall it being slow, 
and buggy.  I might have just had a bad version.

I realize I sound like I'm in IntelliJ sales :-). I just like the 
product, but I could care less if anyone else uses it.  Unless jetbrains 
starts paying me for testimonials ;-)

Anyway, good luck with Eclipse and its slow bugger plugins that almost 
do what you want ;-)

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#2706

On Friday May 03 2:32 PM, Daniel Pitts wrote:
> No harm in being familiar with what "everyone uses". As long as you
> don't use it only for that reason.

I used EMACS in college when everyone was using VI and I've used VSE for 
the past 14 years where nobody at anyplace I ever worked was familiar 
with it.

> Yup. I've paid for my own when my company wouldn't, but now my company
> pays for it.  They also have good "upgrade" licenses which reduces the
> TCO over time.

I've paid for slickedit a number of times too.  At least IntelliJ is 
$100 cheaper.


> The big features in IntelliJ I like is its automatic code completion. It
> is extremely smart about types and scope, it also is camel-case aware.
> For example, if there is a method MyFoo findMyFoo(), and I want the
> following code written: MyFoo foo = findMyFoo(); The keystrokes I need are:
> M-F (command-space) foo = (command-space);  if there are other "MyFoo"
> values (other variables or methods), then I need to differentiate
> between them.  It will provide a drop-down to show the ambiguity, but I
> can type "fmf" or "fMF" to narrow it down to findMyFoo".


I take code completion in an IDE for granted.  I've noticed that Eclipse 
takes it to a bit more of a fancy level, similar to what you describe.

I'm not a 100% sure that VSE is camel case sensitive, but I think it is. 
  It just does so many things right that I take a lot for granted.


> Next best feature: Automated Refactoring.  Introduce
> (constant/variable/method) are incredible. They will even automatically
> find duplicate code which can be replaced by the newly created entity.
> Extract Superclass/Interface are also awesome, but need a little more
> oversight.  Push members down/pull members up help with larger
> refactoring tasks.

I've heard that Eclipse has something like this too.  It sounds both 
exciting and scarey.


> I realize I sound like I'm in IntelliJ sales :-). I just like the
> product, but I could care less if anyone else uses it.  Unless jetbrains
> starts paying me for testimonials ;-)

I know what you mean.  I've gotten a few bosses to buy a few copies. 
Many years ago they even sent me a t-shirt for being such a fan.   I 
think I've sold about 5 iMacs, but Apple never sent me a t-shirt :)

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#2707

On 5/3/13 1:53 PM, Steve wrote:
> On Friday May 03 2:32 PM, Daniel Pitts wrote:
>> No harm in being familiar with what "everyone uses". As long as you
>> don't use it only for that reason.
>
> I used EMACS in college when everyone was using VI and I've used VSE for
> the past 14 years where nobody at anyplace I ever worked was familiar
> with it.
I used vi when everyone else was using notepad or MS write ;-)
>
>> Yup. I've paid for my own when my company wouldn't, but now my company
>> pays for it.  They also have good "upgrade" licenses which reduces the
>> TCO over time.
>
> I've paid for slickedit a number of times too.  At least IntelliJ is
> $100 cheaper.
Upgrading is discounted too if I recall. Something like $50 if you had a 
previous version.  If they're close to a new major release, the license 
buys you both the current and the next.
>> The big features in IntelliJ I like is its automatic code completion. It
>> is extremely smart about types and scope, it also is camel-case aware.
>> For example, if there is a method MyFoo findMyFoo(), and I want the
>> following code written: MyFoo foo = findMyFoo(); The keystrokes I need
>> are:
>> M-F (command-space) foo = (command-space);  if there are other "MyFoo"
>> values (other variables or methods), then I need to differentiate
>> between them.  It will provide a drop-down to show the ambiguity, but I
>> can type "fmf" or "fMF" to narrow it down to findMyFoo".
>
>
> I take code completion in an IDE for granted.  I've noticed that Eclipse
> takes it to a bit more of a fancy level, similar to what you describe.
When I used eclipse, it had something similar to what IntelliJ had at 
the time. IntelliJ's has improved significantly, to the point where they 
reduced the confirmation step because they (rightfully) confident in 
what they'd suggest to you.
>
> I'm not a 100% sure that VSE is camel case sensitive, but I think it is.
>   It just does so many things right that I take a lot for granted.
>
>
>> Next best feature: Automated Refactoring.  Introduce
>> (constant/variable/method) are incredible. They will even automatically
>> find duplicate code which can be replaced by the newly created entity.
>> Extract Superclass/Interface are also awesome, but need a little more
>> oversight.  Push members down/pull members up help with larger
>> refactoring tasks.
>
> I've heard that Eclipse has something like this too.  It sounds both
> exciting and scarey.
It's a "power tool". Treat it with respect and you'll be fine.  Treat it 
causally and you'll end up without a thumb or worse ;-)
>
>
>> I realize I sound like I'm in IntelliJ sales :-). I just like the
>> product, but I could care less if anyone else uses it.  Unless jetbrains
>> starts paying me for testimonials ;-)
>
> I know what you mean.  I've gotten a few bosses to buy a few copies.
> Many years ago they even sent me a t-shirt for being such a fan.   I
> think I've sold about 5 iMacs, but Apple never sent me a t-shirt :)
;-)

Anyway, I encourage you to compare Eclipse with IntelliJ. I believe 
IntelliJ is common enough. It probably doesn't have quite the 
market-share that Eclipse does, only because it costs so much.  IntelliJ 
does have a decent community, and a free version.

I'd like to know if you do try them both, and how you feel they compare 
both to each other and to slickedit.

Thanks,
Daniel.

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