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ANT vs Maven?

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  ANT vs Maven? Steve <tinker123@gmail.com> - 2013-02-16 15:09 -0500
    Re: ANT vs Maven? Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2013-02-16 12:47 -0800
    Re: ANT vs Maven? markspace <markspace@nospam.nospam> - 2013-02-16 15:42 -0800
      Re: ANT vs Maven? Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2013-02-16 17:42 -0800
        Re: ANT vs Maven? markspace <markspace@nospam.nospam> - 2013-02-16 18:06 -0800
          Re: ANT vs Maven? eric@invalid.com (EricF) - 2013-02-17 05:01 +0000

#2501 — ANT vs Maven?

I've traditionally used ANT.

My last project put into dependency hell, which learning enough Maven to 
get the right set of JAR files bailed me out of.

I've learned that there is a "Maven Plugin" for ANT, as well as 
something called Ivy to give ANT the ability to manage dependencies like 
Maven.

I HATE the directory structure Maven makes me use.   My ANT script 
alters a few values in cofig files like my web.xml for dev vs test vs 
production.   It doesn't look so easy in Maven.

I'm wondering if I should stick with ANT, learn the new plugins, or get 
back to  learning Maven more thoroughly.

People keep telling me Maven does more than just build projects and 
manage dependencies.  Well what else?  The only answer I get is a vague 
answer of "project management".

Which is in greater use among Java shops?   I would like to invest my 
time in something more employers used given that at this point I am 
mostly, agnostic between the two

Steve

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#2502

On Sat, 16 Feb 2013 15:09:33 -0500, Steve <tinker123@gmail.com> wrote,
quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said :

>I've learned that there is a "Maven Plugin" for ANT

There is a different philosophy.  Maven wants to handle all the
details.  ANT wants you to specify them.  I doubt the Maven plugin
would change the way Maven works, just let you invoke it from within
an ANT script.

I think the key to ANT is to write a Java program to write your
scripts.  Then all you need is a few lines of project specifications
to crank pages of bug-free easy-to-maintain ant scripts.

Clone and modify is rarely the optimum strategy.
-- 
Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products http://mindprod.com
The first 90% of the code accounts for the first 90% of the development time.
The remaining 10% of the code accounts for the other 90% of the development 
time. 
~ Tom Cargill  Ninety-ninety Law 

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#2503

On 2/16/2013 12:09 PM, Steve wrote:
>
> I've traditionally used ANT.
>
> My last project put into dependency hell, which learning enough Maven to
> get the right set of JAR files bailed me out of.
>
> I've learned that there is a "Maven Plugin" for ANT, as well as
> something called Ivy to give ANT the ability to manage dependencies like
> Maven.
>
> I HATE the directory structure Maven makes me use.


You might also look at Apache Ivy, which seems to be a lighter-weight 
version of Maven.  I just used it for the first time today, and it's 
downloading a bunch of dependencies for me right now.  Looks good!  But 
I don't know anything about it, really.

My general perception of the Java ecosystem though is that Maven is just 
plain going to be required for some projects, even if you hate it. 
Ant+Ivy seems like it might be an alternative for projects you control.

http://ant.apache.org/ivy/

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#2504

markspace wrote:
> Steve wrote:
>> I've traditionally used ANT [sic].
> 
>> My last project put into dependency hell, which learning enough Maven to
>> get the right set of JAR files bailed me out of.
>>
>> I've learned that there is a "Maven Plugin" for ANT, as well as
>> something called Ivy to give ANT the ability to manage dependencies like
>> Maven.
> 
>> I HATE the directory structure Maven makes me use.
> 
> You might also look at Apache Ivy, which seems to be a lighter-weight 
> version of Maven.  I just used it for the first time today, and it's 
> downloading a bunch of dependencies for me right now.  Looks good!  But 
> I don't know anything about it, really.
> 
> My general perception of the Java ecosystem though is that Maven is just 
> plain going to be required for some projects, even if you hate it. 
> Ant+Ivy seems like it might be an alternative for projects you control.
> 
> http://ant.apache.org/ivy/

I'll have to investigate Ivy, thank you.

Ant and Maven each have their own species of hell caused by abuse of the tool.

I worked on a Maven-based Java EE project a couple of years or so ago. We had a lot 
of frameworks to manage, and many of them were out of date when our predecessors 
had created the project, let alone when I joined. Some of the old versions were no longer 
available via the old Maven repositories, in versions compatible with the newer stuff we 
were adding at that point. Newer versions had different APIs and required heavy 
refactoring to fit into things. There were so many JARs, each with its own section in the 
build configuration, that used so many different versions of the same libraries (e.g., 
various ones from Apache Commons), that were hidden from us because Maven would 
simply decide which of what to acquire.

Mind you, that project would have been just as entangled with Ant, because all you can 
do is mirror that structure with the build tool. (Which BTW Maven did just fine - what are 
you on about?) But the entanglement would have been hidden in a maze of impenetrable 
XML instead of covertly managed by ghosts in the machine that required intensive 
exorcism.

-- 
Lew

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#2505

On 2/16/2013 5:42 PM, Lew wrote:

> Mind you, that project would have been just as entangled with Ant, because all you can
> do is mirror that structure with the build tool.


Ivy has a dependency reporting tool that looks like it could be helpful 
sorting a project out if it starts to get too messy.  As I mentioned, 
I'm totally new to Ivy and I can't say how well it works, but the 
pictures of the reports Ivy generates sure look nice.

<http://ant.apache.org/ivy/features.html>

Ivy will also read Maven dependency repositories (I think I said that 
right) so you can still take advantage of Maven dependencies.  Ivy seems 
to be an answer to those who find Maven's actions in response to those 
dependencies a little off.  That feature pages gives some hints about that.

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#2506

In article <kfpdt3$5g9$1@dont-email.me>, markspace <markspace@nospam.nospam> wrote:
>On 2/16/2013 5:42 PM, Lew wrote:
>
>> Mind you, that project would have been just as entangled with Ant, because
> all you can
>> do is mirror that structure with the build tool.
>
>
>Ivy has a dependency reporting tool that looks like it could be helpful 
>sorting a project out if it starts to get too messy.  As I mentioned, 
>I'm totally new to Ivy and I can't say how well it works, but the 
>pictures of the reports Ivy generates sure look nice.
>
><http://ant.apache.org/ivy/features.html>
>
>Ivy will also read Maven dependency repositories (I think I said that 
>right) so you can still take advantage of Maven dependencies.  Ivy seems 
>to be an answer to those who find Maven's actions in response to those 
>dependencies a little off.  That feature pages gives some hints about that.
>
Ivy is meant to be used with Ant and manages the dependencies in a Maven like 
way. I think it works very well. 

Eric

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