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Applets automatically res

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  Applets automatically res "Qu0ll" <qu0ll@THRWHITE.remove-dii-this> - 2011-04-27 15:38 +0000
    Re: Applets automatically "Andrew Thompson" <andrew.thompson@THRWHITE.remove-dii-this> - 2011-04-27 15:38 +0000
      Re: Applets automatically "Qu0ll" <qu0ll@THRWHITE.remove-dii-this> - 2011-04-27 15:38 +0000
        Re: Applets automatically "Andrew Thompson" <andrew.thompson@THRWHITE.remove-dii-this> - 2011-04-27 15:38 +0000
          Re: Applets automatically "Qu0ll" <qu0ll@THRWHITE.remove-dii-this> - 2011-04-27 15:38 +0000
            Re: Applets automatically "Andrew Thompson" <andrew.thompson@THRWHITE.remove-dii-this> - 2011-04-27 15:38 +0000
      Re: Applets automatically "Andrew Thompson" <andrew.thompson@THRWHITE.remove-dii-this> - 2011-04-27 15:38 +0000
      Re: Applets automatically "Qu0ll" <qu0ll@THRWHITE.remove-dii-this> - 2011-04-27 15:38 +0000
        Re: Applets automatically "Roedy Green" <roedy.green@THRWHITE.remove-dii-this> - 2011-04-27 15:38 +0000
          Re: Applets automatically "Qu0ll" <qu0ll@THRWHITE.remove-dii-this> - 2011-04-27 15:38 +0000
            Re: Applets automatically "Roedy Green" <roedy.green@THRWHITE.remove-dii-this> - 2011-04-27 15:38 +0000
              Re: Applets automatically "Qu0ll" <qu0ll@THRWHITE.remove-dii-this> - 2011-04-27 15:38 +0000
    Re: Applets automatically "Roedy Green" <roedy.green@THRWHITE.remove-dii-this> - 2011-04-27 15:38 +0000
      Re: Applets automatically "Qu0ll" <qu0ll@THRWHITE.remove-dii-this> - 2011-04-27 15:38 +0000
        Re: Applets automatically "Andrew Thompson" <andrew.thompson@THRWHITE.remove-dii-this> - 2011-04-27 15:38 +0000
        Re: Applets automatically "Roedy Green" <roedy.green@THRWHITE.remove-dii-this> - 2011-04-27 15:38 +0000

#2330 — Applets automatically res

  To: comp.lang.java.gui
I know almost nothing about applets so please excuse the possible lameness 
of this question.

Can someone tell me if it's possible for an applet to adjust its size (i.e. 
the amount of the web page it takes up) when the size of the web page itself 
changes?  What I mean is that when you increase the size of the browser 
window then the web page (HTML) usually automatically adjusts its own size 
to accommodate the new browser window size and the contents of the page are 
laid out accordingly.  Is it possible to have the applet do something 
similar?  My only experience with applets was when they used to be annoying 
little grey boxes but I am hoping that the platform has improved and I can 
port my Swing applications to the web (and yes I know about JNLP which is 
not what I am looking for).

-- 
And loving it,

-Q
_________________________________________________
Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com
(Replace the "SixFour" with numbers to email me)

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#2331 — Re: Applets automatically

  To: comp.lang.java.gui
Qu0ll wrote:
>I know almost nothing about applets so please excuse the possible lameness 
>of this question.

Applets are not for noobs.  You are better off looking to a web 
start launched JFrame (which is automatically resizable), or
the same launch for an applet (though that requires a bit
of hackish tweaking, to make it resizable in the applet viewer).

>Can someone tell me if it's possible for an applet to adjust its size (i.e. 
>the amount of the web page it takes up) when the size of the web page itself 
>changes?  

Yes, no, maybe.  Depends on the browser/VM combo.

1) You might look to JavaScript to check the page size
regularly, and then resize the applet accordingly. 
Obviously that will fail if JS is disabled.

2) Use a combination of HTML and CSS and 'hope for 
the best'.  Here are my best experiments.
<http://www.physci.org/test/resize/>

>...port my Swing applications to the web (and yes I 
> know about JNLP which is not what I am looking for).

Applets and Swing embedded in web pages.
'Welcome to a world of trouble'.

Why does web start *not* provide what these applications
need?  There are a very few applets that rely of interaction
with JS that simply *cannot* be run using web start, but
very little else prevents a web start launch, and something 
coming from being a desktop application is unlikely to
rely on use of javascript.

-- 
Andrew Thompson
http://www.athompson.info/andrew/

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#2334 — Re: Applets automatically

  To: comp.lang.java.gui
OK thanks for the info Andrew.  I am not a Java n00b - just applets and 
everyone has to start somewhere with them.  I can report that your resize 
applet runs well in both IE 7.0 and Firefox 2.0.1 but when I click on the 
link to display the source I get a blank page in IE and a garbled mess in 
Firefox which looks the unformatted code of the JSP.

Where can I get the source to the applet otherwise?  It behaves in exactly 
the way I would like mine to behave.

-- 
And loving it,

-Q
_________________________________________________
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(Replace the "SixFour" with numbers to email me)

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#2336 — Re: Applets automatically

  To: comp.lang.java.gui
Qu0ll wrote:
..
>Where can I get the source to the applet otherwise?  

The point is not the applet.  The applet does not do *anything*
specific to cause the resize.  The only aspect the applet has 
that helps the entire demo., is that is it amenable to resizing.

It is the HTML and styles (CSS) in the page that cause the applet
to either be resized, or not (in the case of the browsers that fail).

As far as that 'noob' comment goes, I did not mean it quite the 
way it came out sounding.  The point I was trying to make was
that there are an entire new world of potential problems when
it comes to the browser interaction (or rather, the interaction of 
an applet with a VM/Browser (with Plug-Ins), the HTML, CSS and 
JS, other elements in the same page..).

The 'latest' little quirk I heard of, was that in some patch 
of  FF, scrolling *down* will cause all applets in the page 
to reload (the bug does not manifest when scrolling up).**

So, as a trivial e.g. of my warnings.  

Is your applet amenable to working under those conditions?  
Are you prepared to write a 'fix' for the broken FF behaviour?  
Are you ready to perform patches to the applet the *next* 
time a browser develops a problem?

Despite my seeming success in the example you saw, 
I decided that because it failed in Opera (badly), that it
was unusable on the 'big bad' WWW.

** And if that FF report is in any way surprising, I stand 
by my 'noob' (to applet deployment) comment.

Since it seems to have been trimmed in the reply,
I will ask again..

>> Why does web start *not* provide what these 
>> applications need?

-- 
Andrew Thompson
http://www.athompson.info/andrew/

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#2339 — Re: Applets automatically

  To: comp.lang.java.gui
"Andrew Thompson" <u32984@uwe> wrote in message news:77737eacfe757@uwe...

> The point is not the applet.  The applet does not do *anything*
> specific to cause the resize.  The only aspect the applet has
> that helps the entire demo., is that is it amenable to resizing.
>
> It is the HTML and styles (CSS) in the page that cause the applet
> to either be resized, or not (in the case of the browsers that fail).

OK then, do you provide guidelines as to the requirements on the HTML/CSS 
side for applet resizing or could you recommend a good source for such 
guidelines?

> As far as that 'noob' comment goes, I did not mean it quite the
> way it came out sounding.  The point I was trying to make was
> that there are an entire new world of potential problems when
> it comes to the browser interaction (or rather, the interaction of
> an applet with a VM/Browser (with Plug-Ins), the HTML, CSS and
> JS, other elements in the same page..).

There was no problem on my side with the n00b remark but I wanted you to 
know that I do know my way around Java and especially Swing.  However when 
it comes to web development them I certainly am a newbie so I appreciate the 
time you have taken to assist me on this matter.

> The 'latest' little quirk I heard of, was that in some patch
> of  FF, scrolling *down* will cause all applets in the page
> to reload (the bug does not manifest when scrolling up).**

Nasty.

> So, as a trivial e.g. of my warnings.
>
> Is your applet amenable to working under those conditions?
> Are you prepared to write a 'fix' for the broken FF behaviour?
> Are you ready to perform patches to the applet the *next*
> time a browser develops a problem?

Well at this stage I am just investigating the possibility of porting my 
Swing apps to the web in one way or another.  If I do decide to go down the 
applet route then I would do whatever it took to get it to work on all 
platforms.

> Despite my seeming success in the example you saw,
> I decided that because it failed in Opera (badly), that it
> was unusable on the 'big bad' WWW.

I think you are being too hard on yourself.  If your technology works in IE 
and FF then that covers well over 90% of all browsers.  I don't expect to 
ever achieve 100% coverage.

> Since it seems to have been trimmed in the reply,
> I will ask again..
>
>>> Why does web start *not* provide what these
>>> applications need?

Sorry, didn't mean to avoid it.  It's not so much that web start can't 
handle my requirements - it's more that I just don't like it.  Ideally I 
want users to be able to surf the net in their browser and perform all their 
interactions *in* the browser.  It feels more comfortable like that where 
the need to switch betweens applications is obviated.  I also don't like the 
way web start integrates with the OS - some work is needed there with 
application icons and shortcuts.  And I am concerned about the deployment 
model of web start.  My (limited) knowledge of it suggests that all clients 
of the JNLP-delivered application have to get updated at the same time even 
though some sites may have issues with some versions of your application and 
need to remain at a particular release.  Also, how do you pull back a faulty 
release or update?  There are other issues with web start that I can't 
recall at the moment too but the main thing is I would really like to 
provide a browser-based experience with a GUI application.

-- 
And loving it,

-Q
_________________________________________________
Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com
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#2340 — Re: Applets automatically

  To: comp.lang.java.gui
Qu0ll wrote:
>> The point is not the applet.  The applet does not do *anything*
>> specific to cause the resize.  The only aspect the applet has
>> that helps the entire demo., is that is it amenable to resizing.
>>
>> It is the HTML and styles (CSS) in the page that cause the applet
>> to either be resized, or not (in the case of the browsers that fail).
>
>OK then, do you provide guidelines as to the requirements on the HTML/CSS 
>side for applet resizing or could you recommend a good source for such 
>guidelines?

As far as the actual example goes, pull up the HTML 
and CSS by viewing the source of the web page in your 
browser.  The styles (90% of the behaviour) are written 
directly into the page.

Guidelines?  The W3C is the definitive source of
recommendations for HTML and CSS.  The trouble is
that browser manufacturers choose which bits of the
recommnedations they will implement, and how.

A classic example is this very page we have been talking about.
<http://www.physci.org/test/resize/fullwnd5.html>

It is declared as HTML 4.01 transitional (but even 
then it has two validation errors because I neglected 
to specify a width/height for the first (invisible) applet).

It requires HTML 4.01 for styles - CSS, but the APPLET
element was deprecated in HTML 4.01 in preference
to the OBJECT element, which is not supported in 
Mozilla family browsers.  To support applets in pure 
HTML 4.01 requires the horrid nested OBJECT/EMBED
element, but ..what am I saying!  That can *never* be
pure, *valid* HTML 4.01, since the EMBED element is
not defined in HTML 4.01!

Then we come to the last comment in the HTML of that 
page (the details are hidden in HTML comments, directly
in the web page!). The page ends like this..
"...
<!--
IE introduces scroll-bars unless the last three tags are
together on a single line.
-->
</applet></body></html>"

It certainly is not specified in any spec. that you might 
need to put all those elements together on a single line
in order to get IE to honour the layout and style of the 
web page!

> ...If I do decide to go down the applet route then I would 
> do whatever it took to get it to work on all platforms.

You're a better man than me, Gungadin, if you can 
achieve that aim.
..
>>>> Why does web start *not* provide what these
>>>> applications need?
>
>Sorry, didn't mean to avoid it.  It's not so much that web start can't 
>handle my requirements - it's more that I just don't like it.  ...
(snip)

Answered.  I cannot say I entirely agree with your caveats
to web start, but the 'want it embedded in a web page' 
certainly answers the question.

-- 
Andrew Thompson
http://www.athompson.info/andrew/

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#2338 — Re: Applets automatically

  To: comp.lang.java.gui
Andrew Thompson wrote:
..
>2) Use a combination of HTML and CSS and 'hope for 
>the best'.  Here are my best experiments.
><http://www.physci.org/test/resize/>

Your initial reply to that link had me vaguely irritated that
the information there, had failed to communcicate a variety 
of things that it was intended to.  Now I check the page,
it becomes obvious the 'major link' to the discussion 
behind the example, was broken.

Read more, from the c.l.j.gui thread starting with this post.
<http://groups.google.com.au/group/comp.lang.java.gui/msg/18b3469ff25b0614>

Just to confuse matters further, the links in that
thread pointing to the test/lnf/ path of my site
were apparently changed* to test/resize/ as the 
resizing apparently became much more important
than the (relatively simple) PLAF change.

Hope that clarifies some things for you.

(Oh, and I still want to know why 'no JWS'.)

* Bad, bad Andrew.  "Good URL's don't change".

-- 
Andrew Thompson
http://www.athompson.info/andrew/

Message posted via http://www.javakb.com

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#2348 — Re: Applets automatically

  To: comp.lang.java.gui
"Andrew Thompson" <u32984@uwe> wrote in message news:776c6fca6c494@uwe...

> 2) Use a combination of HTML and CSS and 'hope for
> the best'.  Here are my best experiments.
> <http://www.physci.org/test/resize/>

Just one question, when I open this page in IE 7.0 the applet runs straight 
away without any annoying prompt about unsafe controls and yet when I run my 
own applets I get the prompt.  What do I have to do to my applet to get it 
to behave like yours?

-- 
And loving it,

-Q
_________________________________________________
Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com
(Replace the "SixFour" with numbers to email me)

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#2350 — Re: Applets automatically

  To: comp.lang.java.gui
On Sat, 1 Sep 2007 09:48:56 +1000, "Qu0ll" <Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com>
wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said :

>Just one question, when I open this page in IE 7.0 the applet runs straight 
>away without any annoying prompt about unsafe controls and yet when I run my 
>own applets I get the prompt.  What do I have to do to my applet to get it 
>to behave like yours?

note how his Applet is invoked, jarless. That means it can't possibly
be signed.  

<applet
    code="PlafChanger.class"
    codebase="."
    alt="Pluggable Look'n'Feel Changer appears here if Java is
enabled"
    width='100%'
    height='250'>
<p>Pluggable Look'n'Feel Changer appears here in a Java capable
browser.</p>
</applet>

-- 
Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products
The Java Glossary
http://mindprod.com

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#2351 — Re: Applets automatically

  To: comp.lang.java.gui
"Roedy Green" <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> wrote in message 
news:d6rhd35lpqccd8m2h9k3vm7jmu530egeho@4ax.com...

> note how his Applet is invoked, jarless. That means it can't possibly
> be signed.
>
> <applet
>    code="PlafChanger.class"
>    codebase="."
>    alt="Pluggable Look'n'Feel Changer appears here if Java is
> enabled"
>    width='100%'
>    height='250'>
> <p>Pluggable Look'n'Feel Changer appears here in a Java capable
> browser.</p>
> </applet>

Roedy, I think there is more to it than that because I copied his HTML 
*exactly* and just changed the class name of the applet to mine and it still 
comes up with the security warning prompt.  Maybe it has something to do 
with the way I am running it.  I am not using any form of server at this 
stage and am simply starting the web page and HTML from the local file 
system.  I notice too that all the JDK demo applets cause the security 
prompt as well.

-- 
And loving it,

-Q
_________________________________________________
Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com
(Replace the "SixFour" with numbers to email me)

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#2352 — Re: Applets automatically

  To: comp.lang.java.gui
On Sat, 1 Sep 2007 16:57:43 +1000, "Qu0ll" <Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com>
wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said :

>Roedy, I think there is more to it than that because I copied his HTML 
>*exactly* and just changed the class name of the applet to mine and it still 
>comes up with the security warning prompt.  

Are you using IE 7?  Part of Bill Gates' war on Java is that phony
security warning message.

If you are using Internet Explorer 7 you must allow blocked content
permission for Active X to run. This also gives permission to Java to
run. Click the Information bar, and then click Allow blocked content. 

Bill insists you permit the dangerous Active X to run in order to get
the perfectly safe Java.
-- 
Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products
The Java Glossary
http://mindprod.com

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#2353 — Re: Applets automatically

  To: comp.lang.java.gui
"Roedy Green" <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> wrote in message 
news:l04id39dm4efgu3vmmng5r4prcuqicbfcj@4ax.com...

> Are you using IE 7?  Part of Bill Gates' war on Java is that phony
> security warning message.
>
> If you are using Internet Explorer 7 you must allow blocked content
> permission for Active X to run. This also gives permission to Java to
> run. Click the Information bar, and then click Allow blocked content.
>
> Bill insists you permit the dangerous Active X to run in order to get
> the perfectly safe Java.

I am indeed using IE7 but that doesn't explain why Andrew's applet loads 
without the warning and mine doesn't (using the exact same HTML and 
browser).

-- 
And loving it,

-Q
_________________________________________________
Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com
(Replace the "SixFour" with numbers to email me)

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#2332 — Re: Applets automatically

  To: comp.lang.java.gui
On Wed, 29 Aug 2007 23:54:49 +1000, "Qu0ll" <Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com>
wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said :

>Can someone tell me if it's possible for an applet to adjust its size (i.e. 
>the amount of the web page it takes up) when the size of the web page itself 
>changes? 

see Applet.setSize. Try the experiment.
-- 
Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products
The Java Glossary
http://mindprod.com

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#2335 — Re: Applets automatically

  To: comp.lang.java.gui
"Roedy Green" <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> wrote in message 
news:00obd3p6io135t6bpkfugtjjto088rcjei@4ax.com...

> see Applet.setSize. Try the experiment.

Yes there is that method (which is actually in Component) and there is 
resize() in JApplet but the problem is how does it know when to resize 
itself?  i.e. how does it know the surrounding page has resized?

-- 
And loving it,

-Q
_________________________________________________
Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com
(Replace the "SixFour" with numbers to email me)

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#2337 — Re: Applets automatically

  To: comp.lang.java.gui
Qu0ll wrote:
>> see Applet.setSize. Try the experiment.

I second 'try the experiment' (in a slew of browsers), 
because..

>Yes there is that method (which is actually in Component) and there is 
>resize() in JApplet but the problem is how does it know when to resize 
>itself?  i.e. how does it know the surrounding page has resized?

.the ways, and forms, of the failures are fascinating.

-- 
Andrew Thompson
http://www.athompson.info/andrew/

Message posted via JavaKB.com
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#2341 — Re: Applets automatically

  To: comp.lang.java.gui
On Thu, 30 Aug 2007 12:06:37 +1000, "Qu0ll" <Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com>
wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said :

>
>Yes there is that method (which is actually in Component) and there is 
>resize() in JApplet but the problem is how does it know when to resize 
>itself?  i.e. how does it know the surrounding page has resized?

This requires JavaScript to send your Applet a message.  Yucch!

Do a Google search on JavaScript, DOM, Applet and/or resize.
-- 
Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products
The Java Glossary
http://mindprod.com

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