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I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to

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  I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to quiet_lad <gavcomedy@gmail.com> - 2012-05-15 23:27 -0700
    Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to marko <marko@marko.marko> - 2012-05-16 17:50 +1000
    Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailntt.cmm> - 2012-05-16 06:51 -0400
    Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-05-16 07:59 -0700
      Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> - 2012-05-16 09:28 -0700
        Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailntt.cmm> - 2012-05-17 04:08 -0400
          Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-05-16 22:22 -1000
            Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to "A. K." <akk@nospam.org> - 2012-05-17 11:43 +0200
            Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailntt.cmm> - 2012-05-17 10:22 -0400
              Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to "A. K." <akk@nospam.org> - 2012-05-17 17:03 +0200
                Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-05-18 01:15 +0200
                Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailntt.cmm> - 2012-05-17 19:19 -0400
                  Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2012-05-18 12:40 +0000
              Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-05-18 00:17 +0200
            Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to vandys@vsta.org - 2012-05-17 16:02 +0000
              Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to "A. K." <akk@nospam.org> - 2012-05-17 18:08 +0200
                Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to vandys@vsta.org - 2012-05-17 16:58 +0000
              Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it   to Nomen Nescio <nobody@dizum.com> - 2012-05-17 19:03 +0200
              Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-05-17 12:27 -0500
                Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to vandys@vsta.org - 2012-05-17 18:52 +0000
                  Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-05-17 18:18 -0500
                  Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2012-05-18 01:39 -0700
                    Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-05-18 04:50 -0500
                      Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2012-05-18 04:40 -0700
                        Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to humptydumpty <ouatubi@gmail.com> - 2012-05-18 15:15 +0300
                          Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-05-18 08:02 -1000
                Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-05-17 12:40 -0700
                  Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-05-17 18:32 -0500
                    Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-05-18 01:45 -0500
                      Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-05-19 11:28 -0700
                Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to "Peter Knaggs" <pjk@bcs.org.uk> - 2012-05-17 21:38 +0100
                  Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to vandys@vsta.org - 2012-05-17 21:17 +0000
                    Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2012-05-18 09:41 +0000
                      Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-05-18 04:55 -0500
                        Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2012-05-18 13:50 +0000
                      Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-05-18 03:24 -0700
                        Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-05-18 06:10 -0500
                        Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailntt.cmm> - 2012-05-18 08:10 -0400
                          Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Mark Wills <forthfreak@gmail.com> - 2012-05-18 05:57 -0700
                            Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-05-18 08:14 -1000
                        Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to John Passaniti <john.passaniti@gmail.com> - 2012-05-18 10:01 -0700
                      VFX code quality (was: I beleive that forth could supplant ...) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-05-18 12:58 +0000
                        Re: VFX code quality Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-05-18 09:43 -0500
                          Re: VFX code quality anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-05-19 10:54 +0000
                            Re: VFX code quality Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-05-19 11:43 -0500
                              Re: VFX code quality anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-05-22 08:26 +0000
                                Re: VFX code quality Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-05-22 03:52 -0500
                                  Re: VFX code quality Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-05-22 04:02 -0500
                                    Re: VFX code quality anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-05-22 09:25 +0000
                                      Re: VFX code quality Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-05-30 23:39 +0200
                                        Re: VFX code quality anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-05-31 15:07 +0000
                                          Re: VFX code quality Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-05-31 20:24 +0200
                        Re: VFX code quality (was: I beleive that forth could supplant ...) stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2012-05-18 15:25 +0000
                          Re: VFX code quality (was: I beleive that forth could supplant ...) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-05-19 11:31 +0000
                          Re: VFX code quality (was: I beleive that forth could supplant ...) Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-05-20 17:41 +0200
                            Re: VFX code quality Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-05-20 12:49 -0500
                              Re: VFX code quality Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-05-20 11:43 -0700
                                Re: VFX code quality "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-05-20 14:01 -1000
                                  Re: VFX code quality Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-05-20 19:10 -0700
                                    Re: VFX code quality "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-05-20 17:05 -1000
                                      Re: VFX code quality Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-05-20 20:38 -0700
                                        Re: VFX code quality "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-05-20 21:37 -1000
                                          Re: VFX code quality Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-05-21 01:27 -0700
                                            Re: VFX code quality m.a.m.hendrix@tue.nl - 2012-05-21 01:52 -0700
                                              Re: VFX code quality Ecki <ecki@intershop.de> - 2012-05-21 11:06 +0200
                                                Re: VFX code quality mhx@iae.nl (Marcel Hendrix) - 2012-05-21 20:34 +0200
                                                  Re: VFX code quality Ecki <ecki@intershop.de> - 2012-05-22 08:54 +0200
                                              Re: VFX code quality anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-05-21 14:36 +0000
                                                Re: VFX code quality mhx@iae.nl (Marcel Hendrix) - 2012-05-21 20:33 +0200
                                            Re: VFX code quality Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-05-21 04:29 -0500
                                              Re: VFX code quality Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-05-21 08:39 -0700
                                                Re: VFX code quality Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-05-21 15:22 -0500
                                                  Re: VFX code quality Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-05-22 12:47 -0700
                                                    Re: VFX code quality "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-05-22 11:25 -1000
                                                    Re: VFX code quality Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-05-23 03:19 -0500
                                                      Re: VFX code quality Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-05-24 22:51 -0700
                                                        Re: VFX code quality Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-05-24 23:16 -0700
                                                    Re: VFX code quality Fritz Wuehler <fritz@spamexpire-201205.rodent.frell.theremailer.net> - 2012-05-23 17:36 +0200
                                            Re: VFX code quality Doug Hoffman <glidedog@gmail.com> - 2012-05-21 12:57 -0400
                                              Re: VFX code quality "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-05-21 08:42 -1000
                                                Re: VFX code quality Doug Hoffman <glidedog@gmail.com> - 2012-05-21 19:41 -0400
                                                  Re: VFX code quality Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-05-21 21:53 -0700
                                                    Re: VFX code quality Doug Hoffman <glidedog@gmail.com> - 2012-05-22 07:10 -0400
                                            Re: VFX code quality "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-05-21 08:36 -1000
                                              Re: VFX code quality Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-05-21 21:46 -0700
                                                Re: VFX code quality "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-05-21 20:30 -1000
                                            Re: VFX code quality David Kuehling <dvdkhlng@gmx.de> - 2012-05-22 14:06 +0200
                                              Re: VFX code quality Doug Hoffman <glidedog@gmail.com> - 2012-05-22 08:59 -0400
                                                FP locals (was: VFX code quality) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-05-22 13:39 +0000
                                                  Re: FP locals Doug Hoffman <glidedog@gmail.com> - 2012-05-22 14:03 -0400
                                                  Re: FP locals (was: VFX code quality) C G Montgomery <cgm@physics.utoledo.edu> - 2012-05-22 18:09 -0400
                                                    Re: FP locals (was: VFX code quality) Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2012-05-23 03:47 -0700
                                                      Re: FP locals (was: VFX code quality) "Ed" <invalid@nospam.com> - 2012-05-26 21:03 +1000
                                                        Re: FP locals (was: VFX code quality) Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2012-05-26 04:40 -0700
                                                          Re: FP locals (was: VFX code quality) mhx@iae.nl (Marcel Hendrix) - 2012-05-26 18:27 +0200
                                                            Re: FP locals (was: VFX code quality) Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2012-05-26 12:55 -0700
                                                              Re: FP locals (was: VFX code quality) BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-05-26 14:54 -0700
                                                                Re: FP locals (was: VFX code quality) Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2012-05-26 22:02 -0700
                                                              Re: FP locals (was: VFX code quality) mhx@iae.nl (Marcel Hendrix) - 2012-05-27 08:50 +0200
                                                                Re: FP locals (was: VFX code quality) Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2012-05-27 05:26 -0700
                                              Re: VFX code quality BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-05-22 09:04 -0700
                                        Re: VFX code quality "A. K." <akk@nospam.org> - 2012-05-21 09:55 +0200
                                          Re: VFX code quality Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-05-21 01:22 -0700
                                            Re: VFX code quality "A. K." <akk@nospam.org> - 2012-05-21 14:19 +0200
                                              Re: VFX code quality Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-05-22 12:33 -0700
                                                Re: VFX code quality "A. K." <akk@nospam.org> - 2012-05-22 23:14 +0200
                                        Re: VFX code quality mhx@iae.nl (Marcel Hendrix) - 2012-05-21 20:31 +0200
                                          Re: VFX code quality Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-05-21 15:17 -0500
                                          Re: VFX code quality BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-05-21 13:50 -0700
                                            Re: VFX code quality BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-05-21 16:47 -0700
                                              Re: VFX code quality "Harry Vaderchi" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2012-05-22 09:57 +0100
                                                Re: VFX code quality BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-05-22 04:39 -0700
                                                  Re: VFX code quality mhx@iae.nl (Marcel Hendrix) - 2012-05-23 20:25 +0200
                                                    Re: VFX code quality BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-05-23 13:47 -0700
                                        Re: VFX code quality humptydumpty <ouatubi@gmail.com> - 2012-05-21 20:23 +0000
                                    Re: VFX code quality BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-05-20 20:22 -0700
                                    Re: VFX code quality Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2012-05-21 10:57 +0000
                              Re: VFX code quality Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-05-21 01:35 +0200
                              Re: VFX code quality Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2012-05-20 22:44 -0700
                                Re: VFX code quality Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2012-05-20 22:53 -0700
                                Re: VFX code quality Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-05-21 04:32 -0500
                                  Re: VFX code quality "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-05-21 08:44 -1000
                      Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-05-20 00:58 -0700
                        Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2012-05-20 15:09 +0000
                    Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailntt.cmm> - 2012-05-18 07:20 -0400
                      Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-05-18 10:22 -0500
                        Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailntt.cmm> - 2012-05-18 22:09 -0400
                          Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-05-19 04:20 -0500
                            Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2012-05-19 13:19 +0000
                  Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-05-17 18:33 -0500
                    Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2012-05-18 01:49 -0700
                    Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-05-18 07:59 -0700
                      Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-05-18 10:32 -0500
                        Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-05-20 17:24 +0200
                        Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-05-20 15:43 -0700
                          Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-05-20 16:03 -0700
                            Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-05-20 16:34 -0700
                              Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-05-20 17:02 -0700
                              Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-05-21 04:46 -0500
                                Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-05-21 08:33 -0700
                                  Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-05-21 12:10 -0700
                          Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-05-21 04:40 -0500
                            address units (was: I beleive that forth could supplant ...) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-05-21 14:40 +0000
                              Re: address units Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-05-21 10:07 -0500
                          Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2012-05-21 10:59 +0000
                          Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-05-21 14:22 +0000
                Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-05-18 00:43 +0200
                  Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to vandys@vsta.org - 2012-05-17 23:10 +0000
                  Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Doug Hoffman <glidedog@gmail.com> - 2012-05-17 19:24 -0400
                  Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-05-17 18:38 -0500
              Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2012-05-17 22:30 +0000
          Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-05-17 10:59 -0700
            Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Jan Coombs <jan_2011-02@murray-microft.co.uk> - 2012-05-20 13:14 +0100
    Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to marko <marko@marko.marko> - 2012-05-18 11:46 +1000
      Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-05-17 20:10 -1000
      Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Arnold Doray <invalid@invalid.com> - 2012-05-18 10:32 +0000
        Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to marko <marko@marko.marko> - 2012-05-18 21:27 +1000
    Re: I beleive that forth could supplant ruby and perl and python if it wanted to Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2012-05-18 22:58 -0700

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#12361 — Re: VFX code quality

On 5/21/12 2:42 PM, Elizabeth D. Rather wrote:
> On 5/21/12 6:57 AM, Doug Hoffman wrote:
>> On 5/21/12 4:27 AM, Paul Rubin wrote:

>>> : z* { a b c d -- x y }
>>> a c * b d * - b c * a d * + ;

>> Some approach this sort of thing with the mindset that the computer and
>> software, even Forth, are there to service the human. If the locals
>> solution above is fast enough and fits in memory then I would simply use
>> it. Forth-like and un-Forth-like are idioms whose definitions are
>> elusive, or so it seems to me. Btw, locals are in the Forth standard.
>
> There is no way that a high-level definition, with or without locals, is
> going to be anywhere near as fast or as small as a code primitive for
> this kind of operation except with an aggressive optimizing compiler.
> Even then, the code version is probably easier to write.

Using a PowerPC with an optimizing compiler:

: z* { a b c d -- x y }
   a c * b d * -    b c * a d * +   ;

disasm_word z*

: Z*  leaf  #stk-cells: 0  #parms: 4  #locals: 0  #res: 2
mullw     r9, r29, r31
mullw     r8, r28, r30
subf      r3, r8, r9
mullw     r6, r29, r30
mullw     r5, r28, r31
add       r4, r5, r6
blr


> Part of "the Forth way" is to use the
> tool appropriate for the job: code, in this case.

Really?

-Doug

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#12364 — Re: VFX code quality

Doug Hoffman <glidedog@gmail.com> writes:
> Using a PowerPC with an optimizing compiler:
> : z* { a b c d -- x y }
>   a c * b d * -    b c * a d * +   ;

Chuck might have preferred to save a multiplication, for machines
with no multiplier hardware:

: z* { a b c d -- x y }
   a c * { ac } b d * { bd }
   ac bd -
   a b + c d + * ac - bd - ;

http://mathworld.wolfram.com/ComplexMultiplication.html

What compiler are you using?

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#12377 — Re: VFX code quality

On 5/22/12 12:53 AM, Paul Rubin wrote:
> Doug Hoffman<glidedog@gmail.com>  writes:
>> Using a PowerPC with an optimizing compiler:
>> : z* { a b c d -- x y }
>>    a c * b d * -    b c * a d * +   ;
>
> Chuck might have preferred to save a multiplication, for machines
> with no multiplier hardware:
>
> : z* { a b c d -- x y }
>     a c * { ac } b d * { bd }
>     ac bd -
>     a b + c d + * ac - bd - ;
>
> http://mathworld.wolfram.com/ComplexMultiplication.html
>
> What compiler are you using?

Mike Hore's PowerMops.

: z* { a b c d \ ac bd -- x y }
    a c * -> ac  b d * -> bd
    ac bd -
    a b + c d + * ac - bd - ;

disasm_word z*

: Z*  leaf  #stk-cells: 0  #parms: 4  #locals: 2  #res: 2
mullw     r27, r29, r31
mullw     r26, r28, r30
subf      r3, r26, r27
add       r8, r30, r31
add       r7, r28, r29
mullw     r6, r7, r8
subf      r5, r27, r6
subf      r4, r26, r5
blr

-Doug

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#12353 — Re: VFX code quality

On 5/20/12 10:27 PM, Paul Rubin wrote:
> "Elizabeth D. Rather"<erather@forth.com>  writes:
>>>      : z* ( a b c d -- ac-bd bc+ad )
>>>         .... ;
>>
>> I don't understand your stack comment (I'm no mathematician)
>
> ac-bd just means a*c minus b*d.  So the word takes 4 parameters a,b,c,d
> representing the two complex numbers a+bi and c+di.  It multiplies them
> leaving the single complex number (ac-bd) + i*(bc+ad), as two
> coefficients on the stack.  It's trivial with locals:
>
>    : z* { a b c d -- x y }
>        a c * b d * -    b c * a d * +   ;
>
> doing it without locals seems quite inconvenient.  I think Chuck might
> have used globals.

No, he did that sort of thing as a code primitive, using registers.

Cheers,
Elizabeth

-- 
==================================================
Elizabeth D. Rather   (US & Canada)   800-55-FORTH
FORTH Inc.                         +1 310.999.6784
5959 West Century Blvd. Suite 700
Los Angeles, CA 90045
http://www.forth.com

"Forth-based products and Services for real-time
applications since 1973."
==================================================

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#12363 — Re: VFX code quality

"Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> writes:
>> doing it without locals seems quite inconvenient.  I think Chuck might
>> have used globals.
> No, he did that sort of thing as a code primitive, using registers.

Right, I didn't understand at first, but on conventional computers that
sounds workable.  On Chuck's stack-based computers with (almost) no
registers, I think that leaves globals.  I've looked at a little GA144
code (not enough to spot things like this) and want to take a look at
Cmforth (for the Novix) one of these days.

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#12365 — Re: VFX code quality

On 5/21/12 6:46 PM, Paul Rubin wrote:
> "Elizabeth D. Rather"<erather@forth.com>  writes:
>>> doing it without locals seems quite inconvenient.  I think Chuck might
>>> have used globals.
>> No, he did that sort of thing as a code primitive, using registers.
>
> Right, I didn't understand at first, but on conventional computers that
> sounds workable.  On Chuck's stack-based computers with (almost) no
> registers, I think that leaves globals.  I've looked at a little GA144
> code (not enough to spot things like this) and want to take a look at
> Cmforth (for the Novix) one of these days.

I would be amused to see how Chuck would do this in high level on the 
GA144, since he hates locals!

But, in fact, he works in what is equivalent to an assembler to the 
GA144, so I suppose he would continue in that vein. If the processor 
doesn't have many registers, there's no option for optimizing using 
registers, is there?

Cheers,
Elizabeth

-- 
==================================================
Elizabeth D. Rather   (US & Canada)   800-55-FORTH
FORTH Inc.                         +1 310.999.6784
5959 West Century Blvd. Suite 700
Los Angeles, CA 90045
http://www.forth.com

"Forth-based products and Services for real-time
applications since 1973."
==================================================

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#12379 — Re: VFX code quality

>>>>> "Paul" == Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> writes:

> "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> writes:
>>> : z* ( a b c d -- ac-bd bc+ad ) .... ;
>> 
>> I don't understand your stack comment (I'm no mathematician)

> ac-bd just means a*c minus b*d.  So the word takes 4 parameters
> a,b,c,d representing the two complex numbers a+bi and c+di.  It
> multiplies them leaving the single complex number (ac-bd) + i*(bc+ad),
> as two coefficients on the stack.  It's trivial with locals:

>   : z* { a b c d -- x y } a c * b d * - b c * a d * + ;

> doing it without locals seems quite inconvenient.  I think Chuck might
> have used globals.

Well not too inconvenient, this is what I came up some time ago:

: z*  ( n1 n2 n3 n4 -- n5 n6 )
   2OVER 2OVER
   -ROT r* -ROT r* r+  >R  ( imag  )
   ROT r* >R r* R> r-      ( real )
   R> ;

this is for single-cell entities.  Of course with floats you can't use
>R R> which would screw you (but on the other hand floating point locals
aren't supported by the standard).

David
-- 
GnuPG public key: http://dvdkhlng.users.sourceforge.net/dk.gpg
Fingerprint: B17A DC95 D293 657B 4205  D016 7DEF 5323 C174 7D40

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#12381 — Re: VFX code quality

On 5/22/12 8:06 AM, David Kuehling wrote:

> but on the other hand floating point locals
> aren't supported by the standard.

Floating point locals can be written using standard Forth.  Does that 
make them supported?

: z*f f{ a b c d -- x y }
   a c f* b d f* f- b c f* a d f* f+ ;

-Doug

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#12382 — FP locals (was: VFX code quality)

Doug Hoffman <glidedog@gmail.com> writes:
>Floating point locals can be written using standard Forth.

How?

- anton
-- 
M. Anton Ertl  http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html
comp.lang.forth FAQs: http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/faq/toc.html
     New standard: http://www.forth200x.org/forth200x.html
   EuroForth 2012: http://www.euroforth.org/ef12/

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#12388 — Re: FP locals

On 5/22/12 9:39 AM, Anton Ertl wrote:
> Doug Hoffman<glidedog@gmail.com>  writes:
>> Floating point locals can be written using standard Forth.
>
> How?

My mistake.  I don't see how that could be done.  Sorry.

-Doug

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#12397 — Re: FP locals (was: VFX code quality)

Anton Ertl anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at wrote:

> Doug Hoffman <glidedog@gmail.com> writes:
>>Floating point locals can be written using standard Forth.
> 
> How?
> 
> - anton

The Forth Scientific Library provides a form of floating point locals, in 
its fslutil files.  It could be argued that they aren't truly fp locals, 
in syntax for example.  But they can be used for fp locals, and they are 
written in standard Forth.

Perhaps not too lengthy to quote, to save readers from looking them up:


\ ================ Floating-point local variables =====================
\  example:  : test  2e 3e FRAME| a b |  a f. b f. |FRAME ;
\            test <cr> 3.0000 2.0000 ok
\ gforth has floating locals which are nicer but less portable.

8 CONSTANT /flocals

: (frame) ( n -- ) FLOATS ALLOT ;

: FRAME|
        0 >R
        BEGIN   BL WORD  COUNT  1 =
                SWAP C@  [CHAR] | =
                AND 0=
        WHILE   POSTPONE F,  R> 1+ >R
        REPEAT
        /FLOCALS R> - DUP 0< ABORT" too many flocals"
        POSTPONE LITERAL  POSTPONE (frame) ; IMMEDIATE

: |FRAME ( -- ) [ /FLOCALS NEGATE ] LITERAL (frame) ;

\ use a defining word to build locals   cgm
: lcl  ( n -- ) CREATE ,
                DOES>  @ FLOATS NEGATE HERE +
;

8 lcl &a     7 lcl &b     6 lcl &c     5 lcl &d
: a &a F@ ;  : b &b F@ ;  : c &c F@ ;  : d &d F@ ; 
4 lcl &e     3 lcl &f     2 lcl &g     1 lcl &h
: e &e F@ ;  : f &f F@ ;  : g &g F@ ;  : h &h F@ ; 

regards   cgm

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#12412 — Re: FP locals (was: VFX code quality)

On May 22, 5:09 pm, C G Montgomery <c...@physics.utoledo.edu> wrote:
> Anton Ertl an...@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at wrote:
> > Doug Hoffman <glide...@gmail.com> writes:
> >>Floating point locals can be written using standard Forth.
>
> > How?
>
> > - anton
>
> The Forth Scientific Library provides a form of floating point locals, in
> its fslutil files.  It could be argued that they aren't truly fp locals,
> in syntax for example.  But they can be used for fp locals, and they are
> written in standard Forth.
>
> Perhaps not too lengthy to quote, to save readers from looking them up:
>
> \ ================ Floating-point local variables =====================
> \  example:  : test  2e 3e FRAME| a b |  a f. b f. |FRAME ;
> \            test <cr> 3.0000 2.0000 ok
> \ gforth has floating locals which are nicer but less portable.
>
> 8 CONSTANT /flocals
>
> : (frame) ( n -- ) FLOATS ALLOT ;
>
> : FRAME|
>         0 >R
>         BEGIN   BL WORD  COUNT  1 =
>                 SWAP C@  [CHAR] | =
>                 AND 0=
>         WHILE   POSTPONE F,  R> 1+ >R
>         REPEAT
>         /FLOCALS R> - DUP 0< ABORT" too many flocals"
>         POSTPONE LITERAL  POSTPONE (frame) ; IMMEDIATE
>
> : |FRAME ( -- ) [ /FLOCALS NEGATE ] LITERAL (frame) ;
>
> \ use a defining word to build locals   cgm
> : lcl  ( n -- ) CREATE ,
>                 DOES>  @ FLOATS NEGATE HERE +
> ;
>
> 8 lcl &a     7 lcl &b     6 lcl &c     5 lcl &d
> : a &a F@ ;  : b &b F@ ;  : c &c F@ ;  : d &d F@ ;
> 4 lcl &e     3 lcl &f     2 lcl &g     1 lcl &h
> : e &e F@ ;  : f &f F@ ;  : g &g F@ ;  : h &h F@ ;
>
> regards   cgm

Defining the symbols "a" through "e" in the Forth wordlist simply
isn't practical, and I comment out the fp locals section of my Forth
auxiliary file (fsl-util.x).

Krishna

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#12464 — Re: FP locals (was: VFX code quality)

Krishna Myneni wrote:
> On May 22, 5:09 pm, C G Montgomery <c...@physics.utoledo.edu> wrote:
> > ...
> > The Forth Scientific Library provides a form of floating point locals, in
> > its fslutil files. It could be argued that they aren't truly fp locals,
> > in syntax for example. But they can be used for fp locals, and they are
> > written in standard Forth.
> >
> > Perhaps not too lengthy to quote, to save readers from looking them up:
> >
> > \ ================ Floating-point local variables =====================
> > \ example: : test 2e 3e FRAME| a b | a f. b f. |FRAME ;
> > \ test <cr> 3.0000 2.0000 ok
> > \ gforth has floating locals which are nicer but less portable.
> >
> > 8 CONSTANT /flocals
> >
> > : (frame) ( n -- ) FLOATS ALLOT ;
> >
> > : FRAME|
> > 0 >R
> > BEGIN BL WORD COUNT 1 =
> > SWAP C@ [CHAR] | =
> > AND 0=
> > WHILE POSTPONE F, R> 1+ >R
> > REPEAT
> > /FLOCALS R> - DUP 0< ABORT" too many flocals"
> > POSTPONE LITERAL POSTPONE (frame) ; IMMEDIATE
> >
> > : |FRAME ( -- ) [ /FLOCALS NEGATE ] LITERAL (frame) ;
> >
> > \ use a defining word to build locals cgm
> > : lcl ( n -- ) CREATE ,
> > DOES> @ FLOATS NEGATE HERE +
> > ;
> >
> > 8 lcl &a 7 lcl &b 6 lcl &c 5 lcl &d
> > : a &a F@ ; : b &b F@ ; : c &c F@ ; : d &d F@ ;
> > 4 lcl &e 3 lcl &f 2 lcl &g 1 lcl &h
> > : e &e F@ ; : f &f F@ ; : g &g F@ ; : h &h F@ ;
> >
> > regards cgm
>
> Defining the symbols "a" through "e" in the Forth wordlist simply
> isn't practical, and I comment out the fp locals section of my Forth
> auxiliary file (fsl-util.x).

What is impractical about using "a" through "e" ?

Single-letter commands in Forth have typically been used
as 'quick keys' to utility functions with longer names.  Apps
overwriting them may be inconvenient but not a disaster.

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#12465 — Re: FP locals (was: VFX code quality)

On May 26, 6:03 am, "Ed" <inva...@nospam.com> wrote:
> Krishna Myneni wrote:
> > On May 22, 5:09 pm, C G Montgomery <c...@physics.utoledo.edu> wrote:
> > > ...
> > > The Forth Scientific Library provides a form of floating point locals, in
> > > its fslutil files. It could be argued that they aren't truly fp locals,
> > > in syntax for example. But they can be used for fp locals, and they are
> > > written in standard Forth.
>
> > > Perhaps not too lengthy to quote, to save readers from looking them up:
>
> > > \ ================ Floating-point local variables =====================
> > > \ example: : test 2e 3e FRAME| a b | a f. b f. |FRAME ;
> > > \ test <cr> 3.0000 2.0000 ok
> > > \ gforth has floating locals which are nicer but less portable.
>
> > > 8 CONSTANT /flocals
>
> > > : (frame) ( n -- ) FLOATS ALLOT ;
>
> > > : FRAME|
> > > 0 >R
> > > BEGIN BL WORD COUNT 1 =
> > > SWAP C@ [CHAR] | =
> > > AND 0=
> > > WHILE POSTPONE F, R> 1+ >R
> > > REPEAT
> > > /FLOCALS R> - DUP 0< ABORT" too many flocals"
> > > POSTPONE LITERAL POSTPONE (frame) ; IMMEDIATE
>
> > > : |FRAME ( -- ) [ /FLOCALS NEGATE ] LITERAL (frame) ;
>
> > > \ use a defining word to build locals cgm
> > > : lcl ( n -- ) CREATE ,
> > > DOES> @ FLOATS NEGATE HERE +
> > > ;
>
> > > 8 lcl &a 7 lcl &b 6 lcl &c 5 lcl &d
> > > : a &a F@ ; : b &b F@ ; : c &c F@ ; : d &d F@ ;
> > > 4 lcl &e 3 lcl &f 2 lcl &g 1 lcl &h
> > > : e &e F@ ; : f &f F@ ; : g &g F@ ; : h &h F@ ;
>
> > > regards cgm
>
> > Defining the symbols "a" through "e" in the Forth wordlist simply
> > isn't practical, and I comment out the fp locals section of my Forth
> > auxiliary file (fsl-util.x).
>
> What is impractical about using "a" through "e" ?
>
> Single-letter commands in Forth have typically been used
> as 'quick keys' to utility functions with longer names.  Apps
> overwriting them may be inconvenient but not a disaster.

It's actually "a" through "h" in my fsl-util.x file. These symbols are
not redefined for each instance in the FSL aux file implementation.
The following would likely happen:

: func1 ( F: r1 r2 -- ) FRAME| b a | ... ;

: func2 ( F: r1 -- ) FRAME| a | ... func1 ... a ;

That's a flaw with the FSL implementation of fp locals. However,
"a"--"h" are typically likely to be used for variable names (at least
I use them readily). The FSL implementation would mask them inside of
a word, regardless of implementation.

Krishna

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#12475 — Re: FP locals (was: VFX code quality)

Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> writes Re: FP locals (was: VFX code quality)

> On May 26, 6:03=A0am, "Ed" <inva...@nospam.com> wrote:
>> Krishna Myneni wrote:
>>> On May 22, 5:09 pm, C G Montgomery <c...@physics.utoledo.edu> wrote:
...
>>> The Forth Scientific Library provides a form of floating point locals, in
>>> its fslutil files. It could be argued that they aren't truly fp locals,
>>> in syntax for example. But they can be used for fp locals, and they are
>>> written in standard Forth.
[..]
> It's actually "a" through "h" in my fsl-util.x file. These symbols are
> not redefined for each instance in the FSL aux file implementation.
> The following would likely happen:

> : func1 ( F: r1 r2 -- ) FRAME| b a | ... ;

> : func2 ( F: r1 -- ) FRAME| a | ... func1 ... a ;

> That's a flaw with the FSL implementation of fp locals. However,
> "a"--"h" are typically likely to be used for variable names (at least
> I use them readily). The FSL implementation would mask them inside of
> a word, regardless of implementation.

Are you sure you know how to use them ( |FRAME ) ? 
It works for me when I add two FALIGNs.

-marcel

8 CONSTANT /flocals

: (frame) ( n -- ) FALIGN FLOATS ALLOT ;
: |FRAME  ( n -- ) /flocals NEGATE (frame) ;

: FRAME|
 0 >R BEGIN BL WORD COUNT  1 =
            SWAP C@ [CHAR] | = AND 0=
      WHILE R@ 0= IF  POSTPONE FALIGN  ENDIF 
            POSTPONE F, R> 1+ >R
      REPEAT 
 /flocals R> - DUP 0< ABORT" too many flocals" 
 POSTPONE LITERAL POSTPONE (frame) ; IMMEDIATE

: &h            HERE 1 FLOATS - ;
: &g            HERE 2 FLOATS - ;
: &f            HERE 3 FLOATS - ;
: &e            HERE 4 FLOATS - ;
: &d            HERE 5 FLOATS - ;
: &c            HERE 6 FLOATS - ;
: &b            HERE 7 FLOATS - ;
: &a            HERE 8 FLOATS - ;

: a             &a F@ ;
: b             &b F@ ;
: c             &c F@ ;
: d             &d F@ ;
: e             &e F@ ;
: f             &f F@ ;
: g             &g F@ ;
: h             &h F@ ;

: func1 ( F: r1 r2 -- r3 ) FRAME| b a | CR ."    b = " b F.  ." a = " a F.  a b F+       ." a + b = " FDUP F.  |FRAME ;
: func2 ( F: r1 -- )       FRAME| a |   CR ." a = " a F.  PI LN2 func1  CR ." a = " a F. ." result = " a F* F. |FRAME ;

12.34e func2
a = 12.340000
   a = 0.693147 b = 3.141593 a + b = 3.834740
a = 12.340000 result = 47.320690  ok

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#12478 — Re: FP locals (was: VFX code quality)

On May 26, 11:27 am, m...@iae.nl (Marcel Hendrix) wrote:
> Krishna Myneni <krishna.myn...@ccreweb.org> writes Re: FP locals (was: VFX code quality)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On May 26, 6:03=A0am, "Ed" <inva...@nospam.com> wrote:
> >> Krishna Myneni wrote:
> >>> On May 22, 5:09 pm, C G Montgomery <c...@physics.utoledo.edu> wrote:
> ...
> >>> The Forth Scientific Library provides a form of floating point locals, in
> >>> its fslutil files. It could be argued that they aren't truly fp locals,
> >>> in syntax for example. But they can be used for fp locals, and they are
> >>> written in standard Forth.
> [..]
> > It's actually "a" through "h" in my fsl-util.x file. These symbols are
> > not redefined for each instance in the FSL aux file implementation.
> > The following would likely happen:
> > : func1 ( F: r1 r2 -- ) FRAME| b a | ... ;
> > : func2 ( F: r1 -- ) FRAME| a | ... func1 ... a ;
> > That's a flaw with the FSL implementation of fp locals. However,
> > "a"--"h" are typically likely to be used for variable names (at least
> > I use them readily). The FSL implementation would mask them inside of
> > a word, regardless of implementation.
>
> Are you sure you know how to use them ( |FRAME ) ?
> It works for me when I add two FALIGNs.
>
> -marcel
>
> 8 CONSTANT /flocals
>
> : (frame) ( n -- ) FALIGN FLOATS ALLOT ;
> : |FRAME  ( n -- ) /flocals NEGATE (frame) ;
>
> : FRAME|
>  0 >R BEGIN BL WORD COUNT  1 =
>             SWAP C@ [CHAR] | = AND 0=
>       WHILE R@ 0= IF  POSTPONE FALIGN  ENDIF
>             POSTPONE F, R> 1+ >R
>       REPEAT
>  /flocals R> - DUP 0< ABORT" too many flocals"
>  POSTPONE LITERAL POSTPONE (frame) ; IMMEDIATE
>
> : &h            HERE 1 FLOATS - ;
> : &g            HERE 2 FLOATS - ;
> : &f            HERE 3 FLOATS - ;
> : &e            HERE 4 FLOATS - ;
> : &d            HERE 5 FLOATS - ;
> : &c            HERE 6 FLOATS - ;
> : &b            HERE 7 FLOATS - ;
> : &a            HERE 8 FLOATS - ;
>
> : a             &a F@ ;
> : b             &b F@ ;
> : c             &c F@ ;
> : d             &d F@ ;
> : e             &e F@ ;
> : f             &f F@ ;
> : g             &g F@ ;
> : h             &h F@ ;
>
> : func1 ( F: r1 r2 -- r3 ) FRAME| b a | CR ."    b = " b F.  ." a = " a F.  a b F+       ." a + b = " FDUP F.  |FRAME ;
> : func2 ( F: r1 -- )       FRAME| a |   CR ." a = " a F.  PI LN2 func1  CR ." a = " a F. ." result = " a F* F. |FRAME ;
>
> 12.34e func2
> a = 12.340000
>    a = 0.693147 b = 3.141593 a + b = 3.834740
> a = 12.340000 result = 47.320690  ok

You're right. I misremembered and my example was wrong. That wasn't
the reason I didn't want to use them.

The reason I didn't want to use them is that subsequently defined
variables will mask the fixed FLOCALS names. I didn't want to be
restricted in using "a" through "h" for variable or fvariable names.

Krishna

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#12480 — Re: FP locals (was: VFX code quality)

On May 26, 3:55 pm, Krishna Myneni <krishna.myn...@ccreweb.org> wrote:
> On May 26, 11:27 am, m...@iae.nl (Marcel Hendrix) wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Krishna Myneni <krishna.myn...@ccreweb.org> writes Re: FP locals (was: VFX code quality)
>
> > > On May 26, 6:03=A0am, "Ed" <inva...@nospam.com> wrote:
> > >> Krishna Myneni wrote:
> > >>> On May 22, 5:09 pm, C G Montgomery <c...@physics.utoledo.edu> wrote:
> > ...
> > >>> The Forth Scientific Library provides a form of floating point locals, in
> > >>> its fslutil files. It could be argued that they aren't truly fp locals,
> > >>> in syntax for example. But they can be used for fp locals, and they are
> > >>> written in standard Forth.
> > [..]
> > > It's actually "a" through "h" in my fsl-util.x file. These symbols are
> > > not redefined for each instance in the FSL aux file implementation.
> > > The following would likely happen:
> > > : func1 ( F: r1 r2 -- ) FRAME| b a | ... ;
> > > : func2 ( F: r1 -- ) FRAME| a | ... func1 ... a ;
> > > That's a flaw with the FSL implementation of fp locals. However,
> > > "a"--"h" are typically likely to be used for variable names (at least
> > > I use them readily). The FSL implementation would mask them inside of
> > > a word, regardless of implementation.
>
> > Are you sure you know how to use them ( |FRAME ) ?
> > It works for me when I add two FALIGNs.
>
> > -marcel
>
> > 8 CONSTANT /flocals
>
> > : (frame) ( n -- ) FALIGN FLOATS ALLOT ;
> > : |FRAME  ( n -- ) /flocals NEGATE (frame) ;
>
> > : FRAME|
> >  0 >R BEGIN BL WORD COUNT  1 =
> >             SWAP C@ [CHAR] | = AND 0=
> >       WHILE R@ 0= IF  POSTPONE FALIGN  ENDIF
> >             POSTPONE F, R> 1+ >R
> >       REPEAT
> >  /flocals R> - DUP 0< ABORT" too many flocals"
> >  POSTPONE LITERAL POSTPONE (frame) ; IMMEDIATE
>
> > : &h            HERE 1 FLOATS - ;
> > : &g            HERE 2 FLOATS - ;
> > : &f            HERE 3 FLOATS - ;
> > : &e            HERE 4 FLOATS - ;
> > : &d            HERE 5 FLOATS - ;
> > : &c            HERE 6 FLOATS - ;
> > : &b            HERE 7 FLOATS - ;
> > : &a            HERE 8 FLOATS - ;
>
> > : a             &a F@ ;
> > : b             &b F@ ;
> > : c             &c F@ ;
> > : d             &d F@ ;
> > : e             &e F@ ;
> > : f             &f F@ ;
> > : g             &g F@ ;
> > : h             &h F@ ;
>
> > : func1 ( F: r1 r2 -- r3 ) FRAME| b a | CR ."    b = " b F.  ." a = " a F.  a b F+       ." a + b = " FDUP F.  |FRAME ;
> > : func2 ( F: r1 -- )       FRAME| a |   CR ." a = " a F.  PI LN2 func1  CR ." a = " a F. ." result = " a F* F. |FRAME ;
>
> > 12.34e func2
> > a = 12.340000
> >    a = 0.693147 b = 3.141593 a + b = 3.834740
> > a = 12.340000 result = 47.320690  ok
>
> You're right. I misremembered and my example was wrong. That wasn't
> the reason I didn't want to use them.
>
> The reason I didn't want to use them is that subsequently defined
> variables will mask the fixed FLOCALS names. I didn't want to be
> restricted in using "a" through "h" for variable or fvariable names.

Could that be fixed with the search order stack? I guess you'd need:

: ... FRAME| ... |FRAME ... FRAME;

But then the locals not in use would mask those variables that are, so
you'd not be restricted in using "a" through "h" for fvariable names,
but they couldn't mingle in a word using the FLOCALS.

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#12488 — Re: FP locals (was: VFX code quality)

On May 26, 4:54 pm, BruceMcF <agil...@netscape.net> wrote:
> On May 26, 3:55 pm, Krishna Myneni <krishna.myn...@ccreweb.org> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On May 26, 11:27 am, m...@iae.nl (Marcel Hendrix) wrote:
>
> > > Krishna Myneni <krishna.myn...@ccreweb.org> writes Re: FP locals (was: VFX code quality)
>
> > > > On May 26, 6:03=A0am, "Ed" <inva...@nospam.com> wrote:
> > > >> Krishna Myneni wrote:
> > > >>> On May 22, 5:09 pm, C G Montgomery <c...@physics.utoledo.edu> wrote:
> > > ...
> > > >>> The Forth Scientific Library provides a form of floating point locals, in
> > > >>> its fslutil files. It could be argued that they aren't truly fp locals,
> > > >>> in syntax for example. But they can be used for fp locals, and they are
> > > >>> written in standard Forth.
> > > [..]
> > > > It's actually "a" through "h" in my fsl-util.x file. These symbols are
> > > > not redefined for each instance in the FSL aux file implementation.
> > > > The following would likely happen:
> > > > : func1 ( F: r1 r2 -- ) FRAME| b a | ... ;
> > > > : func2 ( F: r1 -- ) FRAME| a | ... func1 ... a ;
> > > > That's a flaw with the FSL implementation of fp locals. However,
> > > > "a"--"h" are typically likely to be used for variable names (at least
> > > > I use them readily). The FSL implementation would mask them inside of
> > > > a word, regardless of implementation.
>
> > > Are you sure you know how to use them ( |FRAME ) ?
> > > It works for me when I add two FALIGNs.
>
> > > -marcel
>
> > > 8 CONSTANT /flocals
>
> > > : (frame) ( n -- ) FALIGN FLOATS ALLOT ;
> > > : |FRAME  ( n -- ) /flocals NEGATE (frame) ;
>
> > > : FRAME|
> > >  0 >R BEGIN BL WORD COUNT  1 =
> > >             SWAP C@ [CHAR] | = AND 0=
> > >       WHILE R@ 0= IF  POSTPONE FALIGN  ENDIF
> > >             POSTPONE F, R> 1+ >R
> > >       REPEAT
> > >  /flocals R> - DUP 0< ABORT" too many flocals"
> > >  POSTPONE LITERAL POSTPONE (frame) ; IMMEDIATE
>
> > > : &h            HERE 1 FLOATS - ;
> > > : &g            HERE 2 FLOATS - ;
> > > : &f            HERE 3 FLOATS - ;
> > > : &e            HERE 4 FLOATS - ;
> > > : &d            HERE 5 FLOATS - ;
> > > : &c            HERE 6 FLOATS - ;
> > > : &b            HERE 7 FLOATS - ;
> > > : &a            HERE 8 FLOATS - ;
>
> > > : a             &a F@ ;
> > > : b             &b F@ ;
> > > : c             &c F@ ;
> > > : d             &d F@ ;
> > > : e             &e F@ ;
> > > : f             &f F@ ;
> > > : g             &g F@ ;
> > > : h             &h F@ ;
>
> > > : func1 ( F: r1 r2 -- r3 ) FRAME| b a | CR ."    b = " b F.  ." a = " a F.  a b F+       ." a + b = " FDUP F.  |FRAME ;
> > > : func2 ( F: r1 -- )       FRAME| a |   CR ." a = " a F.  PI LN2 func1  CR ." a = " a F. ." result = " a F* F. |FRAME ;
>
> > > 12.34e func2
> > > a = 12.340000
> > >    a = 0.693147 b = 3.141593 a + b = 3.834740
> > > a = 12.340000 result = 47.320690  ok
>
> > You're right. I misremembered and my example was wrong. That wasn't
> > the reason I didn't want to use them.
>
> > The reason I didn't want to use them is that subsequently defined
> > variables will mask the fixed FLOCALS names. I didn't want to be
> > restricted in using "a" through "h" for variable or fvariable names.
>
> Could that be fixed with the search order stack? I guess you'd need:
>
> : ... FRAME| ... |FRAME ... FRAME;
>

Yes, but if I was going to go to the trouble of manipulating the
search order stack, I'd just use that provision which is already
provided by the modules system. The older modules system, and the
newer one developed by DNW and myself obviate the need to use FLOCALS.
Our system has the advantage of being able to reference module-
specific names within a word, with no run-time penalty, when named
modules are used. FLOCALS just aren't worth the trouble for me.

Krishna

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#12491 — Re: FP locals (was: VFX code quality)

Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> writes Re: FP locals (was: VFX code quality)

> On May 26, 11:27 am, m...@iae.nl (Marcel Hendrix) wrote:
>> Krishna Myneni <krishna.myn...@ccreweb.org> writes Re: FP locals (was: VFX code quality)
[..]
> You're right. I misremembered and my example was wrong. That wasn't
> the reason I didn't want to use them.

> The reason I didn't want to use them is that subsequently defined
> variables will mask the fixed FLOCALS names. I didn't want to be
> restricted in using "a" through "h" for variable or fvariable names.

OK. But in all reason: one doesn't call the global variables of a substantial
program or library simply a, b, ... h. First, such names are a very poor choice 
because of their lack of descriptiveness, and second, very soon there would be 
clashes between global variables themselves more often than with locals.

I suspect the FSL flocals are in effect more useful than a cursory scan reveals.

For myself, I won't even consider using the FSL locals because of purely 
subjective esthethic reasons :-)

-marcel

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#12496 — Re: FP locals (was: VFX code quality)

On May 27, 1:50 am, m...@iae.nl (Marcel Hendrix) wrote:
> Krishna Myneni <krishna.myn...@ccreweb.org> writes Re: FP locals (was: VFX code quality)
>
>
>
> > On May 26, 11:27 am, m...@iae.nl (Marcel Hendrix) wrote:
> >> Krishna Myneni <krishna.myn...@ccreweb.org> writes Re: FP locals (was: VFX code quality)
> [..]
> > You're right. I misremembered and my example was wrong. That wasn't
> > the reason I didn't want to use them.
> > The reason I didn't want to use them is that subsequently defined
> > variables will mask the fixed FLOCALS names. I didn't want to be
> > restricted in using "a" through "h" for variable or fvariable names.
>
> OK. But in all reason: one doesn't call the global variables of a substantial
> program or library simply a, b, ... h. First, such names are a very poor choice
> because of their lack of descriptiveness, and second, very soon there would be
> clashes between global variables themselves more often than with locals.
>

Not necessarily. If one is writing a medium/large application
scattered across multiple files, without the use of name isolation,
then, yes, such names are very poor choices due to the possibility of
name clashes. However, with the appropriate use of wordlists,
manipulated through a modules framework, such names may be used when
they are the most meaningful choices, e.g. in science and engineering
applications, one could use the following names to represent the
respective quantities:

"e" for energy
"g" for acceleration due to gravity
"a" for radius of a circle
"c" for the speed of light
"h" for Planck's constant


> I suspect the FSL flocals are in effect more useful than a cursory scan reveals.
>

I've actually tried to make use of them before, but abandoned them due
to the name masking issue with common variable names.

> For myself, I won't even consider using the FSL locals because of purely
> subjective esthethic reasons :-)
>


Krishna

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