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Gforth-EC, the underappreciated embedded Forth

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  Gforth-EC, the underappreciated embedded Forth David Kuehling <dvdkhlng@gmx.de> - 2012-02-06 23:07 +0100
    Re: Gforth-EC, the underappreciated embedded Forth Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2012-02-07 16:07 +0000
      Re: Gforth-EC, the underappreciated embedded Forth BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-02-07 07:51 -0800
      Re: Gforth-EC, the underappreciated embedded Forth David Kuehling <dvdkhlng@gmx.de> - 2012-02-07 16:55 +0100
    Re: Gforth-EC, the underappreciated embedded Forth Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2012-02-08 01:30 +0100
      Re: Gforth-EC, the underappreciated embedded Forth David Kuehling <dvdkhlng@gmx.de> - 2012-02-08 09:52 +0100
      Re: Gforth-EC, the underappreciated embedded Forth David Kuehling <dvdkhlng@gmx.de> - 2012-02-10 01:45 +0100

#9373 — Gforth-EC, the underappreciated embedded Forth

Hi,

I've been having a look at Gforth-EC lately, that's the embedded
cross-compiled Forth support that has been included with Gforth all the
time, but as it's well hidden and pretty undocumented, I guess most
people wouldn't have noticed it.

Now it turns out it only takes a few commands to generate a usable 8086
gforth-ec executable, running in dosbox (i.e. emulated under Linux):

From the Gforth source directory, run:

./build-ec 8086
mv kernl-8086.fi gforthec.com  # need to rename for dosbox to execute it
dosbox gforthec.com

And voila, it prints the standard Gforth welcome message.  Some testing:

here .  14334 ok
unused u.  47162 ok
words 
[..] 
dup lit branch >r r> c! c@ (emit) (key) lastkey and xor + rp!
rp@ sp! sp@ ! @ ?branch execute ;s  ok     

More Forth-code to cross-compile can be added in arch/8086/prims.fs.  

Now 8086 code isn't really very interesting to most modern computer
users, but 8086 isn't the only architecture supported by gforth-ec.  I
can successfully run build-ec for 8086, r8c and misc.  Other targets
that seem to have been supported at some time are m68k, shboom, 6502,
c165 and 4stack, but with current Gforth-CVS compilation fails for
those.

Adding support for new target is not too difficult.  Currently I'm
trying to make it work for the LatticeMico32 CPU (the Milkymist SoC).

cheers,

David
-- 
GnuPG public key: http://dvdkhlng.users.sourceforge.net/dk.gpg
Fingerprint: B17A DC95 D293 657B 4205  D016 7DEF 5323 C174 7D40

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#9426

In article <87fwen62fr.fsf@snail.Pool>,
David Kuehling  <dvdkhlng@gmx.de> wrote:
>Hi,
>
>I've been having a look at Gforth-EC lately, that's the embedded
>cross-compiled Forth support that has been included with Gforth all the
>time, but as it's well hidden and pretty undocumented, I guess most
>people wouldn't have noticed it.
>
>Now it turns out it only takes a few commands to generate a usable 8086
>gforth-ec executable, running in dosbox (i.e. emulated under Linux):
>
>From the Gforth source directory, run:
>
>./build-ec 8086
>mv kernl-8086.fi gforthec.com  # need to rename for dosbox to execute it
>dosbox gforthec.com

Slightly surprising. I expect a Forth only to run on a dosbox if
it does INT 21 io.  I expect an embedded Forth to work independant
from MSDOS INT 21 stuff.

>
>And voila, it prints the standard Gforth welcome message.  Some testing:
>
>here .  14334 ok
>unused u.  47162 ok
>words
>[..]

<SNIP>
>David
Groetjes Albert


--
-- 
Albert van der Horst, UTRECHT,THE NETHERLANDS
Economic growth -- being exponential -- ultimately falters.
albert@spe&ar&c.xs4all.nl &=n http://home.hccnet.nl/a.w.m.van.der.horst

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#9430

On Feb 7, 11:07 am, Albert van der Horst <alb...@spenarnc.xs4all.nl>
wrote:
> Slightly surprising. I expect a Forth only to run on a dosbox if
> it does INT 21 io.  I expect an embedded Forth to work independant
> from MSDOS INT 21 stuff.

But there is no single standard way for an embedded '86 system to do
IO. Embedded msdos compatible boards are certainly not unknown, and a
dosbox is convenient as a sandbox for testing on a Linux system, so
its not surprising that an embedded '86 Forth would have msdos IO as
the shipping system. Certainly whoever is using it on a board other
than an embedded msdos board would replace that with IO appropriate to
their board.

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#9431

>>>>> "Albert" == Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> writes:

> In article <87fwen62fr.fsf@snail.Pool>,
> David Kuehling  <dvdkhlng@gmx.de> wrote:
>> Hi,
>> 
>> I've been having a look at Gforth-EC lately, that's the embedded
>> cross-compiled Forth support that has been included with Gforth all
>> the time, but as it's well hidden and pretty undocumented, I guess
>> most people wouldn't have noticed it.
>> 
>> Now it turns out it only takes a few commands to generate a usable
>> 8086 gforth-ec executable, running in dosbox (i.e. emulated under
>> Linux):
>> 
>> From the Gforth source directory, run:
>> 
>> ./build-ec 8086 mv kernl-8086.fi gforthec.com # need to rename for
>> dosbox to execute it dosbox gforthec.com

> Slightly surprising. I expect a Forth only to run on a dosbox if it
> does INT 21 io.  I expect an embedded Forth to work independant from
> MSDOS INT 21 stuff.

It does use int 21 io, see definition of (emit) &friends in [1].  The
nice thing is that this is really completely compiled&assembled from
forth.  No binutils, GCC etc. involved.

cheers,

David

[1] http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/cvsweb/cgi-bin/cvsweb/gforth/arch/8086/prim.fs?rev=1.6;content-type=text%2Fplain
-- 
GnuPG public key: http://dvdkhlng.users.sourceforge.net/dk.gpg
Fingerprint: B17A DC95 D293 657B 4205  D016 7DEF 5323 C174 7D40

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#9449

Op Mon, 06 Feb 2012 23:07:36 +0100 schreef David Kuehling:

> Hi,
> 
> I've been having a look at Gforth-EC lately, that's the embedded
> cross-compiled Forth support that has been included with Gforth all the
> time, but as it's well hidden and pretty undocumented, I guess most
> people wouldn't have noticed it.
> 
> Now it turns out it only takes a few commands to generate a usable 8086
> gforth-ec executable, running in dosbox (i.e. emulated under Linux):
> 
> From the Gforth source directory, run:
> 
> ./build-ec 8086
> mv kernl-8086.fi gforthec.com  # need to rename for dosbox to execute it
> dosbox gforthec.com
> 
> And voila, it prints the standard Gforth welcome message.  Some testing:
> 
What version of Gforth are you using, I get:

coos@donald:~/work/forth/gforth-0.7.0$ ./build-ec 8086

in file included from *OS command line*:-1
in file included from kernel/main.fs:43
cross.fs:1156: No such file or directory
[IF] 	>>>included<<< hex
Backtrace:
$9C5D6C throw 
cp: kan status van ‘kernl-8086.fi-’ niet opvragen: Bestand of map bestaat 
niet

-- 
Coos

CHForth, 16 bit DOS applications
http://home.hccnet.nl/j.j.haak/forth.html 

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#9457

>>>>> "Coos" == Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> writes:

> Op Mon, 06 Feb 2012 23:07:36 +0100 schreef David Kuehling:
>> Hi,
>> 
>> I've been having a look at Gforth-EC lately, that's the embedded
>> cross-compiled Forth support that has been included with Gforth all
>> the time, but as it's well hidden and pretty undocumented, I guess
>> most people wouldn't have noticed it.
>> 
>> Now it turns out it only takes a few commands to generate a usable
>> 8086 gforth-ec executable, running in dosbox (i.e. emulated under
>> Linux):
>> 
>> From the Gforth source directory, run:
>> 
>> ./build-ec 8086 mv kernl-8086.fi gforthec.com # need to rename for
>> dosbox to execute it dosbox gforthec.com
>> 
>> And voila, it prints the standard Gforth welcome message.  Some
>> testing:
>> 
> What version of Gforth are you using, I get:

> coos@donald:~/work/forth/gforth-0.7.0$ ./build-ec 8086

> in file included from *OS command line*:-1 in file included from
> kernel/main.fs:43 cross.fs:1156: No such file or directory [IF]
> >>>included<<< hex Backtrace: $9C5D6C throw cp: kan status van
> ‘kernl-8086.fi-’ niet opvragen: Bestand of map bestaat niet

Ah, this could be caused by missing installation step.  Try 'sudo make
install' first.

BTW I'm using the latest GForth from CVS.  Try

  cvs -d :pserver:anonymous@c1.complang.tuwien.ac.at:/nfs/unsafe/cvs-repository/src-master co gforth
  cd gforth
  ./BUILD-FROM-SCRATCH
  sudo make install
  ./build-ec 8086

cheers,

David
-- 
GnuPG public key: http://dvdkhlng.users.sourceforge.net/dk.gpg
Fingerprint: B17A DC95 D293 657B 4205  D016 7DEF 5323 C174 7D40

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#9491

>>>>> "Coos" == Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> writes:

> Op Mon, 06 Feb 2012 23:07:36 +0100 schreef David Kuehling:
[..]
>> From the Gforth source directory, run:
>> 
>> ./build-ec 8086 mv kernl-8086.fi gforthec.com # need to rename for
>> dosbox to execute it dosbox gforthec.com
>> 
>> And voila, it prints the standard Gforth welcome message.  Some
>> testing:
>> 
> What version of Gforth are you using, I get:

> coos@donald:~/work/forth/gforth-0.7.0$ ./build-ec 8086

> in file included from *OS command line*:-1 in file included from
> kernel/main.fs:43 cross.fs:1156: No such file or directory [IF]
> >>>included<<< hex Backtrace: $9C5D6C throw cp: kan status van
> ‘kernl-8086.fi-’ niet opvragen: Bestand of map bestaat niet

Right, the arch/8086 directory is not included in Gforth's distribution
tarballs.  Here's a current snapshot tarball that has it:

http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/dvdkhlng/gforth-0.7.9-20120210.tar.gz

(this also fixes building of the c165 gforth-ec target, btw)

cheers,

David
-- 
GnuPG public key: http://dvdkhlng.users.sourceforge.net/dk.gpg
Fingerprint: B17A DC95 D293 657B 4205  D016 7DEF 5323 C174 7D40

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