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Groups > comp.lang.forth > #8896 > unrolled thread

Why no standard words for traversing a wordlist?

Started byKrishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org>
First post2012-01-16 04:36 -0800
Last post2012-01-22 11:03 -0800
Articles 20 on this page of 201 — 18 participants

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Contents

  Why no standard words for traversing a wordlist? Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2012-01-16 04:36 -0800
    Re: Why no standard words for traversing a wordlist? Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-01-16 05:03 -0800
      Re: Why no standard words for traversing a wordlist? Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2012-01-16 05:34 -0800
    Re: Why no standard words for traversing a wordlist? Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-01-16 05:10 -0800
      Re: Why no standard words for traversing a wordlist? Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2012-01-16 05:41 -0800
        Re: Why no standard words for traversing a wordlist? Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-01-16 06:06 -0800
    Re: Why no standard words for traversing a wordlist? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-01-16 14:30 +0000
      Re: Why no standard words for traversing a wordlist? Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-01-16 07:04 -0800
        Re: Why no standard words for traversing a wordlist? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-01-16 15:21 +0000
      Re: Why no standard words for traversing a wordlist? Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2012-01-16 08:48 -0800
        Re: Why no standard words for traversing a wordlist? Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2012-01-16 09:28 -0800
          Re: Why no standard words for traversing a wordlist? Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2012-01-16 10:45 -0800
            Re: Why no standard words for traversing a wordlist? Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2012-01-16 12:49 -0800
            Re: Why no standard words for traversing a wordlist? "Bruce.McFarling" <bruce.mcfarling@gmail.com> - 2012-01-16 13:07 -0800
              Re: Why no standard words for traversing a wordlist? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-01-18 13:59 +0000
                Re: Why no standard words for traversing a wordlist? BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-01-18 06:49 -0800
                  Re: Why no standard words for traversing a wordlist? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-01-18 15:28 +0000
                    Re: Why no standard words for traversing a wordlist? BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-01-18 12:02 -0800
                      Re: Why no standard words for traversing a wordlist? Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2012-01-18 14:10 -0800
                        Re: Why no standard words for traversing a wordlist? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-01-18 12:55 -1000
                        Re: Why no standard words for traversing a wordlist? BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-01-18 17:36 -0800
                          Re: Why no standard words for traversing a wordlist? Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2012-01-19 03:03 -0800
                            Re: Why no standard words for traversing a wordlist? BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-01-19 05:37 -0800
                              Re: Why no standard words for traversing a wordlist? Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2012-01-19 06:21 -0800
                                Re: Why no standard words for traversing a wordlist? Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2012-01-19 06:45 -0800
                                Re: Why no standard words for traversing a wordlist? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-01-19 14:48 +0000
                                  Re: Why no standard words for traversing a wordlist? Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2012-01-19 09:13 -0800
                                    How to represent the compilation semantics (was: Why no ...) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-01-19 17:16 +0000
                                      Re: How to represent the compilation semantics (was: Why no ...) Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2012-01-19 09:45 -0800
                                      Re: How to represent the compilation semantics (was: Why no ...) BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-01-19 09:50 -0800
                                    Re: Why no standard words for traversing a wordlist? BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-01-19 09:47 -0800
                          Re: Why no standard words for traversing a wordlist? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-01-19 12:24 +0000
                            Re: Why no standard words for traversing a wordlist? stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2012-01-19 13:02 +0000
                              Re: Why no standard words for traversing a wordlist? BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-01-19 05:44 -0800
                              Re: Why no standard words for traversing a wordlist? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-01-19 14:41 +0000
          Re: Why no standard words for traversing a wordlist? Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2012-01-16 22:20 +0000
            Re: Why no standard words for traversing a wordlist? BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-01-16 14:45 -0800
        Re: Why no standard words for traversing a wordlist? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-01-16 17:41 +0000
          Re: Why no standard words for traversing a wordlist? Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2012-01-16 10:39 -0800
            Re: Why no standard words for traversing a wordlist? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-01-16 12:27 -0800
              Re: Why no standard words for traversing a wordlist? Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2012-01-16 20:12 -0800
                Re: Why no standard words for traversing a wordlist? JennyB <jennybrien@googlemail.com> - 2012-01-19 06:00 -0800
                  Re: Why no standard words for traversing a wordlist? Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2012-01-19 17:32 -0800
                    Re: Why no standard words for traversing a wordlist? Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2012-01-19 18:55 -0800
                    Re: Why no standard words for traversing a wordlist? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-01-20 11:06 +0000
                      Re: Why no standard words for traversing a wordlist? Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2012-01-20 03:39 -0800
                        Re: Why no standard words for traversing a wordlist? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-01-20 16:48 +0000
                          Re: Why no standard words for traversing a wordlist? Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2012-01-20 10:15 -0800
                            Re: Why no standard words for traversing a wordlist? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-01-20 09:51 -1000
                              Re: Why no standard words for traversing a wordlist? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-01-23 12:25 +0000
                                RfD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST proposal Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2012-01-23 09:25 -0800
                                  Re: RfD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST proposal Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2012-01-23 09:56 -0800
                                    Re: RfD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST proposal Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-01-23 12:10 -0600
                                      Re: RfD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST proposal Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2012-01-23 11:13 -0800
                                        Re: RfD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST proposal Peter Fälth <peter.falth@tin.it> - 2012-01-23 13:14 -0800
                                        Re: RfD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST proposal Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2012-01-23 13:39 -0800
                                          Re: RfD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST proposal BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-01-23 14:47 -0800
                                            Re: RfD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST proposal Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2012-01-23 17:00 -0800
                                              Re: RfD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST proposal BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-01-23 17:21 -0800
                                                Re: RfD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST proposal Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2012-01-23 17:40 -0800
                                          Re: RfD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST proposal Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2012-01-23 15:07 -0800
                                            Re: RfD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST proposal Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2012-01-23 16:57 -0800
                                        Re: RfD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST proposal Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-02-07 20:43 +0100
                                          Re: RfD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST proposal Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2012-02-07 14:47 -0800
                                            Re: RfD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST proposal "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-02-07 13:14 -1000
                                              Re: RfD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST proposal Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2012-02-08 18:00 -0800
                                                Re: RfD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST proposal BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-02-08 19:30 -0800
                                            Re: RfD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST proposal Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2012-02-07 15:17 -0800
                                              Re: RfD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST proposal Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2012-02-08 18:07 -0800
                                                Re: RfD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST proposal BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-02-08 19:20 -0800
                                                Re: RfD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST proposal Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2012-02-09 01:14 -0800
                                    Re: RfD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST proposal Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2012-01-23 10:34 -0800
                                  Re: RfD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST proposal Aleksej Saushev <asau@inbox.ru> - 2012-01-23 22:15 +0400
                                    Re: RfD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST proposal Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2012-01-23 10:43 -0800
                                      Re: RfD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST proposal Aleksej Saushev <asau@inbox.ru> - 2012-01-24 10:09 +0400
                                        Re: RfD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST proposal Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2012-01-23 22:19 -0800
                                          Re: RfD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST proposal stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2012-01-24 10:11 +0000
                                            Re: RfD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST proposal Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2012-01-24 06:53 -0800
                                              Re: RfD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST proposal BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-01-24 10:42 -0800
                                                Re: RfD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST proposal Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2012-01-24 11:56 -0800
                                  Re: RfD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST proposal Peter Fälth <peter.falth@tin.it> - 2012-01-23 13:04 -0800
                                    Re: RfD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST proposal Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2012-01-23 13:14 -0800
                                      Re: RfD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST proposal BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-01-25 07:16 -0800
                                  Re: RfD: rev 1 of TRAVERSE-WORDLIST proposal Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2012-01-23 22:13 -0800
                                    Re: RfD: rev 1 of TRAVERSE-WORDLIST proposal anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-01-30 16:35 +0000
                                      Re: RfD: rev 1 of TRAVERSE-WORDLIST proposal BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-01-30 10:25 -0800
                                        Re: RfD: rev 1 of TRAVERSE-WORDLIST proposal Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2012-01-30 10:43 -0800
                                          Re: RfD: rev 1 of TRAVERSE-WORDLIST proposal BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-01-30 12:01 -0800
                                          Re: RfD: rev 1 of TRAVERSE-WORDLIST proposal Peter Fälth <peter.falth@tin.it> - 2012-01-30 12:48 -0800
                                        Re: RfD: rev 1 of TRAVERSE-WORDLIST proposal anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-01-31 11:26 +0000
                                          Re: RfD: rev 1 of TRAVERSE-WORDLIST proposal BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-01-31 07:50 -0800
                                            Re: RfD: rev 1 of TRAVERSE-WORDLIST proposal anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-01-31 16:00 +0000
                                              Re: RfD: rev 1 of TRAVERSE-WORDLIST proposal BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-01-31 08:31 -0800
                                          Re: RfD: rev 1 of TRAVERSE-WORDLIST proposal Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2012-01-31 10:05 -0800
                                    Re: RfD: rev 1 of TRAVERSE-WORDLIST proposal Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-01-31 10:18 -0600
                                      Re: RfD: rev 1 of TRAVERSE-WORDLIST proposal BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-01-31 08:42 -0800
                                        Re: RfD: rev 1 of TRAVERSE-WORDLIST proposal Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-01-31 10:48 -0600
                                          Re: RfD: rev 1 of TRAVERSE-WORDLIST proposal anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-01-31 17:03 +0000
                                            Re: RfD: rev 1 of TRAVERSE-WORDLIST proposal Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-01-31 12:00 -0600
                                              Re: RfD: rev 1 of TRAVERSE-WORDLIST proposal anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-02-01 16:08 +0000
                                                Re: RfD: rev 1 of TRAVERSE-WORDLIST proposal Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-02-01 12:06 -0600
                                                  Re: RfD: rev 1 of TRAVERSE-WORDLIST proposal anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-02-02 12:40 +0000
                                                    Re: RfD: rev 1 of TRAVERSE-WORDLIST proposal Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-02-02 08:41 -0600
                                                      Re: RfD: rev 1 of TRAVERSE-WORDLIST proposal BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-02-02 08:34 -0800
                                                      Re: RfD: rev 1 of TRAVERSE-WORDLIST proposal anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-02-02 15:55 +0000
                                                        Re: RfD: rev 1 of TRAVERSE-WORDLIST proposal Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-02-02 11:20 -0600
                                                          Re: RfD: rev 1 of TRAVERSE-WORDLIST proposal anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-02-03 15:12 +0000
                                                            Re: RfD: rev 1 of TRAVERSE-WORDLIST proposal Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-02-03 10:33 -0600
                                                              Re: RfD: rev 1 of TRAVERSE-WORDLIST proposal anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-02-03 16:48 +0000
                                                            Re: RfD: rev 1 of TRAVERSE-WORDLIST proposal Peter Fälth <peter.falth@tin.it> - 2012-02-03 08:07 -0800
                                          Re: RfD: rev 1 of TRAVERSE-WORDLIST proposal BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-01-31 09:36 -0800
                                            Re: RfD: rev 1 of TRAVERSE-WORDLIST proposal Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-01-31 12:05 -0600
                                              Re: RfD: rev 1 of TRAVERSE-WORDLIST proposal BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-01-31 10:33 -0800
                                      Re: RfD: rev 1 of TRAVERSE-WORDLIST proposal anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-01-31 16:50 +0000
                                        Re: RfD: rev 1 of TRAVERSE-WORDLIST proposal Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-01-31 11:07 -0600
                                          Re: RfD: rev 1 of TRAVERSE-WORDLIST proposal Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2012-01-31 09:36 -0800
                                            Re: RfD: rev 1 of TRAVERSE-WORDLIST proposal Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-01-31 12:09 -0600
                                          Re: RfD: rev 1 of TRAVERSE-WORDLIST proposal anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-01-31 17:33 +0000
                                          Re: RfD: rev 1 of TRAVERSE-WORDLIST proposal BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-01-31 09:29 -0800
                                            Re: RfD: rev 1 of TRAVERSE-WORDLIST proposal Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-01-31 12:17 -0600
                                              Re: RfD: rev 1 of TRAVERSE-WORDLIST proposal Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2012-01-31 11:01 -0800
                                                Re: RfD: rev 1 of TRAVERSE-WORDLIST proposal Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-02-01 04:11 -0600
                                                  Re: RfD: rev 1 of TRAVERSE-WORDLIST proposal BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-02-01 06:27 -0800
                                                    Re: RfD: rev 1 of TRAVERSE-WORDLIST proposal Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-02-01 11:32 -0600
                                                      Re: RfD: rev 1 of TRAVERSE-WORDLIST proposal BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-02-01 10:32 -0800
                                                        Re: RfD: rev 1 of TRAVERSE-WORDLIST proposal Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2012-02-01 11:03 -0800
                                                  Re: RfD: rev 1 of TRAVERSE-WORDLIST proposal Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2012-02-01 20:34 +0000
                                                    Re: RfD: rev 1 of TRAVERSE-WORDLIST proposal BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-02-01 12:36 -0800
                                              Re: RfD: rev 1 of TRAVERSE-WORDLIST proposal BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-01-31 11:09 -0800
                                    Re: RfD: rev 1 of TRAVERSE-WORDLIST proposal Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2012-02-03 12:53 -0800
                                      Re: RfD: rev 1 of TRAVERSE-WORDLIST proposal Brad <hwfwguy@gmail.com> - 2012-02-03 19:04 -0800
                                        Re: RfD: rev 1 of TRAVERSE-WORDLIST proposal Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2012-02-04 04:03 -0800
                                          Re: RfD: rev 1 of TRAVERSE-WORDLIST proposal Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2012-02-04 12:15 -0800
                                            Re: RfD: rev 1 of TRAVERSE-WORDLIST proposal Brad <hwfwguy@gmail.com> - 2012-02-05 14:28 -0800
                                              Re: RfD: rev 1 of TRAVERSE-WORDLIST proposal Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2012-02-05 17:00 -0800
                                        Re: RfD: rev 1 of TRAVERSE-WORDLIST proposal BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-02-04 04:23 -0800
                                          Re: RfD: rev 1 of TRAVERSE-WORDLIST proposal Brad <hwfwguy@gmail.com> - 2012-02-04 11:37 -0800
                                        Re: RfD: rev 1 of TRAVERSE-WORDLIST proposal Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2012-02-04 11:58 -0800
                                          Re: RfD: rev 1 of TRAVERSE-WORDLIST proposal Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2012-02-04 12:26 -0800
                                      Re: RfD: rev 1 of TRAVERSE-WORDLIST proposal BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-02-04 04:27 -0800
                                        Re: RfD: rev 1 of TRAVERSE-WORDLIST proposal Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2012-02-04 15:06 -0800
                                          Re: RfD: rev 1 of TRAVERSE-WORDLIST proposal BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-02-04 16:30 -0800
                                      Re: RfD: rev 1 of TRAVERSE-WORDLIST proposal Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2012-02-04 13:19 -0800
                                        Re: RfD: rev 1 of TRAVERSE-WORDLIST proposal Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2012-02-04 14:55 -0800
                                          Re: RfD: rev 1 of TRAVERSE-WORDLIST proposal Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2012-02-04 19:13 -0800
                                            Re: RfD: rev 1 of TRAVERSE-WORDLIST proposal BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-02-05 05:35 -0800
                                          Re: RfD: rev 1 of TRAVERSE-WORDLIST proposal anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-02-07 11:55 +0000
                                            Re: RfD: rev 1 of TRAVERSE-WORDLIST proposal Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2012-02-07 11:29 -0800
                                              Re: RfD: rev 1 of TRAVERSE-WORDLIST proposal Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2012-02-07 14:53 -0800
                                                Re: RfD: rev 1 of TRAVERSE-WORDLIST proposal Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2012-02-07 15:18 -0800
                                        Re: RfD: rev 1 of TRAVERSE-WORDLIST proposal BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-02-05 05:51 -0800
                                Re: Why no standard words for traversing a wordlist? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-01-24 09:21 -0600
                      Re: Why no standard words for traversing a wordlist? Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2012-01-20 05:35 -0800
                        Re: Why no standard words for traversing a wordlist? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-01-20 16:41 +0000
    Re: Why no standard words for traversing a wordlist? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-01-16 10:32 -0600
    Re: Why no standard words for traversing a wordlist? BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-01-17 07:35 -0800
    Re: Why no standard words for traversing a wordlist? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-01-17 10:08 -0600
      Re: Why no standard words for traversing a wordlist? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-01-18 00:42 +0100
      Re: Why no standard words for traversing a wordlist? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-01-18 13:53 +0000
        Re: Why no standard words for traversing a wordlist? Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2012-01-18 07:24 -0800
          Re: Why no standard words for traversing a wordlist? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-01-18 16:28 +0000
            Re: Why no standard words for traversing a wordlist? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-01-18 21:27 +0100
              Re: Why no standard words for traversing a wordlist? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-01-19 17:33 +0000
                Re: Why no standard words for traversing a wordlist? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-01-20 00:01 +0100
                  Re: Why no standard words for traversing a wordlist? BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-01-19 16:03 -0800
                    Re: Why no standard words for traversing a wordlist? Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2012-01-20 02:19 -0800
                      Re: Why no standard words for traversing a wordlist? BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-01-20 06:46 -0800
                        Re: Why no standard words for traversing a wordlist? Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2012-01-20 07:56 -0800
                          Re: Why no standard words for traversing a wordlist? Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2012-01-20 08:13 -0800
                            Re: Why no standard words for traversing a wordlist? BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-01-20 12:28 -0800
                          Re: Why no standard words for traversing a wordlist? BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-01-20 08:37 -0800
                  Re: Why no standard words for traversing a wordlist? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-01-20 11:23 +0000
    Re: Why no standard words for traversing a wordlist? "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@noavailemail.cmm> - 2012-01-19 03:10 -0500
      Re: Why no standard words for traversing a wordlist? Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2012-01-19 03:08 -0800
        Re: Why no standard words for traversing a wordlist? BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-01-19 05:50 -0800
          Re: Why no standard words for traversing a wordlist? Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2012-01-19 06:16 -0800
            Re: Why no standard words for traversing a wordlist? BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-01-19 07:13 -0800
            Re: Why no standard words for traversing a wordlist? Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2012-01-20 13:10 +0000
        Re: Why no standard words for traversing a wordlist? "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@noavailemail.cmm> - 2012-01-19 17:50 -0500
          Re: Why no standard words for traversing a wordlist? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-01-19 13:48 -1000
            Re: Why no standard words for traversing a wordlist? Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2012-01-19 17:37 -0800
              Re: Why no standard words for traversing a wordlist? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-01-19 18:14 -1000
              Re: Why no standard words for traversing a wordlist? BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-01-20 06:48 -0800
                Re: Why no standard words for traversing a wordlist? Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2012-01-20 10:13 -0800
                  Re: Why no standard words for traversing a wordlist? BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-01-20 12:22 -0800
          Re: Why no standard words for traversing a wordlist? BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-01-19 15:56 -0800
            Re: Why no standard words for traversing a wordlist? "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@noavailemail.cmm> - 2012-01-20 05:52 -0500
              Re: Why no standard words for traversing a wordlist? BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-01-20 06:52 -0800
                Re: Why no standard words for traversing a wordlist? "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@noavailemail.cmm> - 2012-01-21 15:45 -0500
                  Re: Why no standard words for traversing a wordlist? BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-01-21 13:58 -0800
                    Re: Why no standard words for traversing a wordlist? "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@noavailemail.cmm> - 2012-01-21 21:15 -0500
                      Re: Why no standard words for traversing a wordlist? BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-01-21 18:45 -0800
          Re: Why no standard words for traversing a wordlist? Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2012-01-20 03:29 -0800
    Re: Why no standard words for traversing a wordlist? stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2012-01-20 17:21 +0000
      Re: Why no standard words for traversing a wordlist? Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2012-01-20 10:11 -0800
        Re: Why no standard words for traversing a wordlist? stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2012-01-20 18:43 +0000
          Re: Why no standard words for traversing a wordlist? mhx@iae.nl (Marcel Hendrix) - 2012-01-21 08:45 +0200
          Re: Why no standard words for traversing a wordlist? Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2012-01-21 12:37 +0000
          Re: Why no standard words for traversing a wordlist? BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-01-21 17:22 -0800
            Re: Why no standard words for traversing a wordlist? stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2012-01-22 18:31 +0000
              Re: Why no standard words for traversing a wordlist? BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-01-22 11:03 -0800

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#9059

FromKrishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org>
Date2012-01-19 17:37 -0800
Message-ID<94a63538-690f-4539-96fc-080f9c07e17c@h3g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
In reply to#9054
On Jan 19, 5:48 pm, "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erat...@forth.com> wrote:
> On 1/19/12 12:50 PM, Rod Pemberton wrote:
> ...
>
> > Keeping with the Forth
> > "as generic as possible" spirit, I don't think dictionary specific words
> > should be created, unless absolutely required.
>
> I don't recognize such a spirit. IMO the philosophy is to avoid
> unnecessary generalization; solve only the problem at hand.
>

Unfortunately, that is a self-limiting philosophy... appropriate for
tackling a specific requirement at hand, but not for evolving the
language to be functional in a wider range of environments
(application and development contexts).

Krishna

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#9062

From"Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com>
Date2012-01-19 18:14 -1000
Message-ID<QK2dnZped-G8d4XSnZ2dnUVZ_vudnZ2d@supernews.com>
In reply to#9059
On 1/19/12 3:37 PM, Krishna Myneni wrote:
> On Jan 19, 5:48 pm, "Elizabeth D. Rather"<erat...@forth.com>  wrote:
>> On 1/19/12 12:50 PM, Rod Pemberton wrote:
>> ...
>>
>>> Keeping with the Forth
>>> "as generic as possible" spirit, I don't think dictionary specific words
>>> should be created, unless absolutely required.
>>
>> I don't recognize such a spirit. IMO the philosophy is to avoid
>> unnecessary generalization; solve only the problem at hand.
>>
>
> Unfortunately, that is a self-limiting philosophy... appropriate for
> tackling a specific requirement at hand, but not for evolving the
> language to be functional in a wider range of environments
> (application and development contexts).

Well, it was Chuck's mantra, and has been influential to a generation of 
Forth programmers.

It's fair to say that Chuck's ambition has never at any time been "to 
evolve the language to be functional in a wider range of environments." 
He (and his followers) have been content to have a simple and nimble 
language with which to tackle the problem at hand. Not surprisingly, as 
different problem domains have presented themselves over the years, the 
language *has*, in fact, acquired more capabilities in different areas, 
and long-time practitioners have developed personal libraries reflecting 
capabilities needed by the projects they've done.

The Forth community has, of course, failed to promulgate a lot of those 
capabilities and personal libraries as much as perhaps we should, 
although FORTH, Inc, MPE, and probably other individuals and 
organizations that see a lot of different projects have ways of sharing 
within their communities (e.g. as libraries and options included with 
their products).

But I would argue that a lot of Forth's efficiency and nimbleness is a 
result of our avoiding the temptation to try to add a lot of generalized 
features on spec or because other languages have them.

Cheers,
Elizabeth

-- 
==================================================
Elizabeth D. Rather   (US & Canada)   800-55-FORTH
FORTH Inc.                         +1 310.999.6784
5959 West Century Blvd. Suite 700
Los Angeles, CA 90045
http://www.forth.com

"Forth-based products and Services for real-time
applications since 1973."
==================================================

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#9075

FromBruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net>
Date2012-01-20 06:48 -0800
Message-ID<c7e5d713-f1e8-45a1-b494-df78fa600bb1@p13g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
In reply to#9059
On Jan 19, 8:37 pm, Krishna Myneni <krishna.myn...@ccreweb.org> wrote:
> On Jan 19, 5:48 pm, "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erat...@forth.com> wrote:

>> I don't recognize such a spirit. IMO the philosophy is to avoid
>> unnecessary generalization; solve only the problem at hand.

> Unfortunately, that is a self-limiting philosophy... appropriate for
> tackling a specific requirement at hand, but not for evolving the
> language to be functional in a wider range of environments
> (application and development contexts).

Except when providing a function that can be functional in a wider
range of environments *is* the problem at hand. Then "solve the
problem at hand" would suggest solving the problem of being functional
in a wider range of environments.

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#9095

FromKrishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org>
Date2012-01-20 10:13 -0800
Message-ID<7a8efbbf-ac8f-409b-8452-7db7e980a26c@g41g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
In reply to#9075
On Jan 20, 8:48 am, BruceMcF <agil...@netscape.net> wrote:
> On Jan 19, 8:37 pm, Krishna Myneni <krishna.myn...@ccreweb.org> wrote:
>
> > On Jan 19, 5:48 pm, "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erat...@forth.com> wrote:
> >> I don't recognize such a spirit. IMO the philosophy is to avoid
> >> unnecessary generalization; solve only the problem at hand.
> > Unfortunately, that is a self-limiting philosophy... appropriate for
> > tackling a specific requirement at hand, but not for evolving the
> > language to be functional in a wider range of environments
> > (application and development contexts).
>
> Except when providing a function that can be functional in a wider
> range of environments *is* the problem at hand. Then "solve the
> problem at hand" would suggest solving the problem of being functional
> in a wider range of environments.

Exception noted.

Krishna

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#9101

FromBruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net>
Date2012-01-20 12:22 -0800
Message-ID<8b790a4c-756a-4bb9-bad6-b6fe06b1f6d5@z2g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
In reply to#9095
On Jan 20, 1:13 pm, Krishna Myneni <krishna.myn...@ccreweb.org> wrote:
> Exception noted.

That exception would seem to be the case at hand.

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#9055

FromBruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net>
Date2012-01-19 15:56 -0800
Message-ID<dfa75e25-51ff-4d79-aef3-bd73cc0a330e@f1g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
In reply to#9051
On Jan 19, 5:50 pm, "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_h...@noavailemail.cmm>
wrote:
> No, "it" wouldn't presume a doubly-linked list.  The words would be
> available for a doubly-linked list, e.g., for non-dictionary use too.
> If the words were dictionary use only, then things change a bit,
> which is why I didn't state for dictionary use.  Let's assume they
> are dictionary use only.

Since the original question is traversing a wordlist ~ lets assume
that they *are* for dictionary use, and would be for a linked list if
the dictionary happened to be implemented that way.

> If there was a singly-linked dictionary list, then the words for the
> incorrect direction could be defined to do nothing.  If there are no
> links at all in the dictionary, i.e., hash, then the traversal words
> wouldn't need to do anything would they?  I.e., there is no
> traversing since there is no need to traverse.  The entire point of
> traversing is to locate the node.

No, the point of traversing is to traverse through the wordlist. If
the wordlist is not organized as nodes in a linked list, then a linked-
list traverse would fail to traverse *the wordlist*.

> If the hash or some other function does it for you and they are
> dictionary use only, why define them to do something?  The code used
> to confirm the correct node via traversal would likely work
> differently on a hash system and call the hash lookup and verify the
> correct node.

What do you mean "find *the* correct node"? What if you wanted to do
something with *every* entry in the wordlist (as with WORDS)? What if
you wanted to do something with *a set of* words in the wordlist (eg,
"all words beginning with the character .")?

> I.e., the Forth traversal code probably would have zero code changes
> for the node check on a hash system, with only the traversal words
> being defined to do nothing.

If the traversal words are defined to do nothing, then they will not
be traversal words, because they will not traverse the wordlist.

> You'd only need to work through a few sets of traversal word
> definitions and routines to confirm the words with host specific
> definitions work for multiple implementations.  The standard would
> only need to support the top two or three or four methods of
> dictionary implementations.

That would be inappropriate for standardization at the language level.
It would be workable for a library standard that was was willing to
confine itself to implementations that followed those particular
methods of implementation.

> Keeping with the Forth "as generic as possible" spirit, I don't think
> dictionary specific words should be created, unless absolutely
> required.

I try to parse this sentence, but it does not seem to make sense to
me. It seems to argue that the reason we shouldn't have as generic
wordlist traversal words as possible is because of the spirit of
keeping things as generic as possible.

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#9065

From"Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@noavailemail.cmm>
Date2012-01-20 05:52 -0500
Message-ID<jfbh49$61k$1@speranza.aioe.org>
In reply to#9055
"BruceMcF" <agila61@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:dfa75e25-51ff-4d79-aef3-bd73cc0a330e@f1g2000yqi.googlegroups.com...
...

> What if you wanted to do something with *every* entry in
> the wordlist (as with WORDS)?

How do hash based dictionaries do that now?  Supposedly, from what a couple
people have just now stated, hash dictionaries are not linked ...  If their
dictionaries aren't linked somehow, they aren't traversable are they?  If
they aren't linked, WORDS wouldn't work.  If WORDS does work, then they are
linked somehow, and therefore basic traversal words should work.  Yes?
I.e., the linking may not be a pointer for a hash based system, but there is
some method to progress to the next dictionary entry.  Somesuch behavior is
required to implements WORDS.  Most likely, this behavior is "hidden" on
hash based systems and needs to be exposed via acceptable Forth words.

> What if you wanted to do something with *a set of* words
> in the wordlist (eg, "all words beginning with the character .")?

I don't see any issue here.  Matching of the words is a separate operation
whether exact or with wildcards.  I'd say it's *much* more difficult on a
hash based dictionary.  I.e., no wildcard use possible with the hash ...
That could imply hash based dictionaries have a secondary matching method,
i.e., string compare.  Of course, they do have a string compare to eliminate
hash collisions.  So, if WORDS works for hash based dictionary implying a
linked-list and hash based dictionaries have a string compare operation,
then we are back to being able to traverse dictionaries via the old
linked-list method for all systems.  Aren't we?

> > You'd only need to work through a few sets of traversal word
> > definitions and routines to confirm the words with host specific
> > definitions work for multiple implementations. The standard would
> > only need to support the top two or three or four methods of
> > dictionary implementations.
>
> That would be inappropriate for standardization at the language level.

Then, there is no point in entertaining the OP's original question, is
there?  That's ignoring the fact that that reasoning would nullify the
entire purpose of and reason for the fig-Forth, F-79, F-83, and ANS Forth
specifications ...  Everything they standardized would be inappropriate by
your reasoning.

> > Keeping with the Forth "as generic as possible" spirit, I don't think
> > dictionary specific words should be created, unless absolutely
> > required.
>
> I try to parse this sentence, but it does not seem to make sense to
> me. It seems to argue that the reason we shouldn't have as generic
> wordlist traversal words as possible is because of the spirit of
> keeping things as generic as possible.

I said that IMO Forth words for traversing linked-lists are appropriate, but
Forth words only for traversing dictionary entries aren't, because their
specificity violates the Forth ideology AIUI.


Rod Pemberton

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#9076

FromBruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net>
Date2012-01-20 06:52 -0800
Message-ID<6966483a-9850-4392-896f-736918834639@h3g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
In reply to#9065
On Jan 20, 5:52 am, "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_h...@noavailemail.cmm>
wrote:

> How do hash based dictionaries do that now?  Supposedly, from what a
> couple people have just now stated, hash dictionaries are not linked
> ...  If their dictionaries aren't linked somehow, they aren't
> traversable are they?

Of course they are.

> If they aren't linked, WORDS wouldn't work.  If WORDS does work, then
> they are linked somehow, and therefore basic traversal words should
> work.  Yes?

Of course not. If you know where the set of hash buckets is located,
you do not need to link the hash buckets together, you can just look
in each hash bucket, one after the other.

The rest snipped unread as if you think its impossible to traverse a
set of hash buckets, it doesn't seem like you are in a position to
suggest a set of behaviors that would work for a hashed dictionary
except by accident.

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#9117

From"Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@noavailemail.cmm>
Date2012-01-21 15:45 -0500
Message-ID<jff88n$j4q$1@speranza.aioe.org>
In reply to#9076
"BruceMcF" <agila61@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:6966483a-9850-4392-896f-736918834639@h3g2000yqe.googlegroups.com...
> On Jan 20, 5:52 am, "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_h...@noavailemail.cmm>
> wrote:
...

> If you know where the set of hash buckets is located,
> you do not need to link the hash buckets together, you
> can just look in each hash bucket, one after the other.

How do you get from one hash bucket to another?  I.e., represented by your
phrase "just look in each hash bucket, one after the other".

The functionality to move from bucket to bucket represents a link, which is
what I said previously ...  It could be simply summing an address of a fixed
bucket size from the starting address of the buckets.  However, that
functionality - the functionality to move to the next bucket - is present
and codified.  If you had understood what I wrote, you wouldn't have just
reiterated that.

> The rest snipped unread as if you think its impossible to
> traverse a set of hash buckets, [...]

I said no such thing.  You simply failed to comprehend what I wrote.

> [...] it doesn't seem like you are in a position to suggest a set of
behaviors that would work for a hashed dictionary except by accident.

Whatever your apparent emotional problems are with what I suggested, I can't
fix that.  Only you can.  But, failed to stated what you thought was so
wrong.  You could've said, "I don't like this wordset" because 1) they don't
word well with hash functions 2) they don't fit the way I've done things 3)
they don't work well with Forth in general 4) etc.


Rod Pemberton


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#9120

FromBruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net>
Date2012-01-21 13:58 -0800
Message-ID<1d937660-dc87-4d9b-b7db-994587c82bb0@l19g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
In reply to#9117
On Jan 21, 3:45 pm, "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_h...@noavailemail.cmm>
wrote:
> "BruceMcF" <agil...@netscape.net> wrote in message

> news:6966483a-9850-4392-896f-736918834639@h3g2000yqe.googlegroups.com...> On Jan 20, 5:52 am, "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_h...@noavailemail.cmm>
> > wrote:

> ...

> > If you know where the set of hash buckets is located,
> > you do not need to link the hash buckets together, you
> > can just look in each hash bucket, one after the other.

> How do you get from one hash bucket to another?  I.e., represented by
> your phrase "just look in each hash bucket, one after the other".

Instead of *fetching* the next address from a *link* field in the
item, you may, for example, increment the data bucket address and
compare the result to the end of the vector of hash buckets.

> The functionality to move from bucket to bucket represents a link,
> which is what I said previously ...

If you are redefining words from their normal meaning to some
idiosyncratic meaning, then say so up front ... the "functionality to
move from bucket to bucket" does not "represent a link". It performs
part of the same *function* as a link (though often only part, since
there may be a linked list of all hash collisions in a given hash
bucket) ... but it does not do so by *using a link address*. It does
so by some other means.

The point of the traverse-wordlist operations (plural, since as we've
seen there are a family of them both already implementation and
conceivable) is that the mechanics of traversing the wordlist does not
have to be first mapped to match the mechanics of traversing a linked
list. Instead, the direct mechanics of traversing the wordlist however
it is implemented is used.

> It could be simply summing an address of a fixed bucket size from the
> starting address of the buckets.

But then its no longer a link, its a *different* way to step through ~
a way to step through that depends on a different set of information
than a *linked* list. For example, you can use a do-loop to step
through a vector of hash buckets, which is an option that hiding the
actual hash buckets behind an abstraction that pretends that its a
linked list will hide.

> However, that functionality - the functionality to move to the next
> bucket - is present and codified.

Yes, and the functionality to move to the next bucket is provided by
something *other than* a link which you are mapping to a set of linked
list operations.

> If you had understood what I wrote, you wouldn't have just
> reiterated that.

> > The rest snipped unread as if you think its impossible to
> > traverse a set of hash buckets, [...]

> I said no such thing.  You simply failed to comprehend what I wrote.

You said if there is no link, there should be a no-op. Now you clarify
that when you said if there is no link, you did not mean what the
words would seem to say, that when there is no *actual* link, but
rather by link you meant something more general ~ neither a link nor
anything else which can be used to traverse the information.

The link for the hash bucket is a double ~ the index into the hash
bucket vector and the address for the item>next-item operation in the
hash collision change. Emulating that with a set of operators for a
linked list requires hiding state ~ likely the hash bucket vector
index ~ and that means that operations which *are* valid for a real
linked list will not be valid for the emulated linked list.

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#9125

From"Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@noavailemail.cmm>
Date2012-01-21 21:15 -0500
Message-ID<jffrk1$r66$1@speranza.aioe.org>
In reply to#9120
"BruceMcF" <agila61@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:1d937660-dc87-4d9b-b7db-994587c82bb0@l19g2000yqj.googlegroups.com...
> On Jan 21, 3:45 pm, "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_h...@noavailemail.cmm>
> wrote:
> > "BruceMcF" <agil...@netscape.net> wrote in message
...

> > I said no such thing. You simply failed to comprehend what I wrote.
>
> You said if there is no link, there should be a no-op. Now you clarify
> that when you said if there is no link, you did not mean what the
> words would seem to say, that when there is no *actual* link, but
> rather by link you meant something more general ~ neither a link nor
> anything else which can be used to traverse the information.

You're confused, or willfully ignoring parts of the conversation.

> The link for the hash bucket is a double ~ the index into the hash
> bucket vector and the address for the item>next-item operation in the
> hash collision change. Emulating that with a set of operators for a
> linked list requires hiding state ~ likely the hash bucket vector
> index ~ and that means that operations which *are* valid for a real
> linked list will not be valid for the emulated linked list.

So, now you are saying such a system is also incapable of implementing
WORDS correctly ...

The required functionality needed to implement WORDS and
dictionary traversal are the same.  How do you not recognize that?


Rod Pemberton

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#9126

FromBruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net>
Date2012-01-21 18:45 -0800
Message-ID<ac675fff-681d-41c7-a083-be1a76bc0a54@t13g2000yqg.googlegroups.com>
In reply to#9125
On Jan 21, 9:15 pm, "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_h...@noavailemail.cmm>
wrote:
> "BruceMcF" <agil...@netscape.net> wrote in message
>
> news:1d937660-dc87-4d9b-b7db-994587c82bb0@l19g2000yqj.googlegroups.com...> On Jan 21, 3:45 pm, "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_h...@noavailemail.cmm>
> > wrote:
> > > "BruceMcF" <agil...@netscape.net> wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> > > I said no such thing. You simply failed to comprehend what I wrote.
>
> > You said if there is no link, there should be a no-op. Now you clarify
> > that when you said if there is no link, you did not mean what the
> > words would seem to say, that when there is no *actual* link, but
> > rather by link you meant something more general ~ neither a link nor
> > anything else which can be used to traverse the information.
>
> You're confused, or willfully ignoring parts of the conversation.
>
> > The link for the hash bucket is a double ~ the index into the hash
> > bucket vector and the address for the item>next-item operation in the
> > hash collision change. Emulating that with a set of operators for a
> > linked list requires hiding state ~ likely the hash bucket vector
> > index ~ and that means that operations which *are* valid for a real
> > linked list will not be valid for the emulated linked list.
>
> So, now you are saying such a system is also incapable of implementing WORDS correctly ...

No, obviously not. As with all the more general traverse words the
execute an xt on each entry and take a flag to continue, WORDS does
not require the full range of capabilities provided by a linked list
link address, and so an ability to perform WORDS does not imply an
ability to provide the full range of capabilies that must be supported
to effectively emulate general linked list functionality.

There is no need to be able to *step through* a wordlist item by item
using a single, atomic link in order to be able to traverse a
wordlist. Each and every word described already that applies an xt to
each item in a wordlist avoids the user having to program the step by
step process, and so adapt to a variety of distinct traversal
mechanisms, not just a linked list mechanism.

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#9070

FromAlex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com>
Date2012-01-20 03:29 -0800
Message-ID<14c27556-3f44-42f6-a95c-9c50abc7a0c5@a11g2000vbz.googlegroups.com>
In reply to#9051
On Jan 19, 10:50 pm, "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_h...@noavailemail.cmm>
wrote:
> "Alex McDonald" <b...@rivadpm.com> wrote in message
>
> news:5ecf1895-1629-44df-bb12-dd1ac58f2cf3@u2g2000vbe.googlegroups.com...> On Jan 19, 8:10 am, "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_h...@noavailemail.cmm>
> > wrote:
>
> ...
>
> > > If I were deciding on the basic functionality I needed for traversing
> > > a linked-list in Forth, I'd at least want the following:
>
> > While they're suitable for traversing a linked list, many
> > dictionaries/wordlists/vocabularies are not based on [linked lists],
> > and it would presume a doubly linked list to support such a traversal
> > scheme. For instance, some are hash only, others hash & single linked
> > lists.
>
> No, "it" wouldn't presume a doubly-linked list.  The words would be
> available for a doubly-linked list, e.g., for non-dictionary use too.  If
> the words were dictionary use only, then things change a bit, which is why I
> didn't state for dictionary use.  Let's assume they are dictionary use only.
> If there was a singly-linked dictionary list, then the words for the
> incorrect direction could be defined to do nothing.  If there are no links
> at all in the dictionary, i.e., hash, then the traversal words wouldn't need
> to do anything would they?  I.e., there is no traversing since there is no
> need to traverse.  The entire point of traversing is to locate the node.  If
> the hash or some other function does it for you and they are dictionary use
> only, why define them to do something?  The code used to confirm the correct
> node via traversal would likely work differently on a hash system and call
> the hash lookup and verify the correct node.  I.e., the Forth traversal code
> probably would have zero code changes for the node check on a hash system,
> with only the traversal words being defined to do nothing. You'd only need
> to work through a few sets of traversal word definitions and routines to
> confirm the words with host specific definitions work for multiple
> implementations.  The standard would only need to support the top two or
> three or four methods of dictionary implementations.  Keeping with the Forth
> "as generic as possible" spirit, I don't think dictionary specific words
> should be created, unless absolutely required.
>
> Rod Pemberton

I can't see this working in practice, since the generic "traversal"
words you propose are like methods of multiple classes operating
against objects. While that's possible, it's certainly not desirable
since it's not simple, and it adds a big layer of cruft over what is a
very simple proposal for a single word.

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#9091

FromstephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc)
Date2012-01-20 17:21 +0000
Message-ID<4f19a136.91474821@192.168.0.50>
In reply to#8896
On Mon, 16 Jan 2012 04:36:26 -0800 (PST), Krishna Myneni
<krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> wrote:

>Others must have brought up this question previously, but I'm
>wondering why there are no standard words in Forth for traversing a
>wordlist and obtaining basic information about each node?

VFX provides a number of words for this sort of stuff. They are used
15 times in the code tree, and always in conjunction with other
implementation-specific words such as displaying a word name or
a cross-reference structure.

In order to standardise dictionary traversal, you will have
to standardise a slew of other "stuff", nearly all of which
is system-specific "stuff" that probably should not be standardised.

I don't think that it is worth the effort.

Stephen


-- 
Stephen Pelc, stephenXXX@mpeforth.com
MicroProcessor Engineering Ltd - More Real, Less Time
133 Hill Lane, Southampton SO15 5AF, England
tel: +44 (0)23 8063 1441, fax: +44 (0)23 8033 9691
web: http://www.mpeforth.com - free VFX Forth downloads

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#9094

FromKrishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org>
Date2012-01-20 10:11 -0800
Message-ID<8a2f8bb2-5094-4de4-9e82-76ddfe487b79@1g2000yqv.googlegroups.com>
In reply to#9091
On Jan 20, 11:21 am, stephen...@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) wrote:
> On Mon, 16 Jan 2012 04:36:26 -0800 (PST), Krishna Myneni
>
> <krishna.myn...@ccreweb.org> wrote:
> >Others must have brought up this question previously, but I'm
> >wondering why there are no standard words in Forth for traversing a
> >wordlist and obtaining basic information about each node?
>
> VFX provides a number of words for this sort of stuff. They are used
> 15 times in the code tree, and always in conjunction with other
> implementation-specific words such as displaying a word name or
> a cross-reference structure.
>
> In order to standardise dictionary traversal, you will have
> to standardise a slew of other "stuff", nearly all of which
> is system-specific "stuff" that probably should not be standardised.
>
> I don't think that it is worth the effort.
>
> Stephen
>

For the use which I envisioned when I posted the question, which was
to provide a couple of tools to find instances of name reuse in the
search order, I only require two words such as WORDLIST-TRAVERSE
(similar to Alex McDonald's VOC-ITERATE), and another such as >NAME to
get the current word name in the traversal. With just these two words
alone, the Forth standard word, WORDS, can also be written in Forth.
An additional word to obtain information such as xt(s) may permit a
word to be written in Forth to find aliases/synonyms. Allowing remap
of xt(s) of a word may permit more serious applications such as Forth
debuggers to be written in Forth.

But, for now, I'd settle for the ability to traverse the wordlist and
obtain the word name at each node of the traversal. I haven't seen
anything in this thread to suggest that there would be any great
difficulty to providing such words within any existing Forth system.

Regards,
Krishna

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#9097

FromstephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc)
Date2012-01-20 18:43 +0000
Message-ID<4f19b46d.96393267@192.168.0.50>
In reply to#9094
On Fri, 20 Jan 2012 10:11:45 -0800 (PST), Krishna Myneni
<krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> wrote:

>But, for now, I'd settle for the ability to traverse the wordlist and
>obtain the word name at each node of the traversal. I haven't seen
>anything in this thread to suggest that there would be any great
>difficulty to providing such words within any existing Forth system.

Before you can standardise, you need common practice. A good way
to start is to keep a lot of systems on your working PC and to scan
the sources regularly.

The VFX traversal words are:

: WalkWordList  \ xt wid --
\ Walk through a wordlist calling the definition XT for each word.   
\ The definitions are walked in reverse chronological order.         
\ The definition at XT will be passed the THREAD# and NFA.
\ The XT definition has the stack form:                              
\ *E : MyDef    \ thread# nfa -- flag ; Return TRUE to continue

: WalkAllWordLists      \ xt-to-call --
\ Call the given XT for each *\fo{WORDLIST}. The callback 
\ is given the WID and a flag and will return TRUE to continue 
\ the walk or false to abandon it. The FLAG supplied will be  
\ TRUE if the WID represents a *\fo{VOCABULARY} and FALSE if
\ the WID represents a child of *\fo{WORDLIST}.
\ : MyDef    \ wid flag -- t/f ; return TRUE to continue 

: WalkAllWords	\ xt --
\ Walk through all wordlists calling the given XT for each word.
\ The definitions are walked in reverse chronological order of
wordlists
\ and then by reverse chronological order within each wordlist.
\ When run, the XT will be passed the THREAD# and NFA.
\ ** The XT definition has the stack form:
\ : MyDef    \ thread# nfa -- flag ; return TRUE to continue

Stephen


-- 
Stephen Pelc, stephenXXX@mpeforth.com
MicroProcessor Engineering Ltd - More Real, Less Time
133 Hill Lane, Southampton SO15 5AF, England
tel: +44 (0)23 8063 1441, fax: +44 (0)23 8033 9691
web: http://www.mpeforth.com - free VFX Forth downloads

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#9108

Frommhx@iae.nl (Marcel Hendrix)
Date2012-01-21 08:45 +0200
Message-ID<08589514028435@frunobulax.edu>
In reply to#9097
stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) writes Re: Why no standard words for traversing a wordlist?

> On Fri, 20 Jan 2012 10:11:45 -0800 (PST), Krishna Myneni
> <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> wrote:

> >But, for now, I'd settle for the ability to traverse the wordlist and
> >obtain the word name at each node of the traversal. I haven't seen
> >anything in this thread to suggest that there would be any great
> >difficulty to providing such words within any existing Forth system.

I have no time for a more thoughtful response, so here's just a
(limited) dump of the facilities exposed by iForth.


FORTH> help doWORDS
doWORDS                                                       IFORTH
     ( xt -- count-of-matched-entries )
     The wordlist traversing factor of WORDS WORDS: and WORDS?
     Supply the xt of a word that can filter ( addr -- bool ) where
     addr is the address of a counted string (name of the next word
     in the list). For example, to realize a clone of WORDS that only
     prints short words you can do:
     : SWORDS-XT  ( addr -- bool ) C@ 3 < ;  ' SWORDS-XT doWORDS DROP .
 ok
FORTH> words: HEAD
>HEAD             HEAD>exec         HEAD>comp         HEAD'             
HEAD>FLAGS        HEAD>LOCATE       HEAD>FORGET       HEAD>HASH
HEAD>             LINK>HEAD         HEAD>LINK         HEAD>NAME
 ok


Some examples:


FORTH> help HEAD>NAME
HEAD>NAME           "head-to-name"                            IFORTH
     ( dea -- nfa )
     nfa is the name field address of the dictionary entry identified by dea.
     It contains a character string with the name of the dictionary entry.

FORTH> help >HEAD
>HEAD               "to-head"                                 IFORTH
     ( xt -- dea | 0 )
     dea is the address of the dictionary entry whose execution token is xt .
     If the conversion was not possible a 0 is returned.

FORTH> help HEAD>FLAGS
HEAD>FLAGS                                                    IFORTH
     ( dea -- ffa )
     ffa is the flag field address of the dictionary entry identified by dea.
     It is considered as an array of flags denoting properties of the
     dictionary entry. It can be manipulated using bit-masks.
     For example: the phrase flags =ANSI AND =ANSI = leaves true if flags
     are the flags from an ANS standard word.
     See also: =ANSI =COMP =IMMEDIATE =MACRO =PRIVATE =VISIBLE

FORTH> help .FLAGS
.FLAGS              "dot-flags"                               IFORTH
     ( flags -- )
     Display a summary of what flags means. Example:

        FORTH> HEAD' IF HEAD>FLAGS @ CR .FLAGS
        IMMEDIATE, COMPILE-ONLY, ANSI ok

     See also: HEAD>FLAGS
 
 -marcel

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#9110

FromAlbert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl>
Date2012-01-21 12:37 +0000
Message-ID<ly5f33.4sy@spenarnc.xs4all.nl>
In reply to#9097
In article <4f19b46d.96393267@192.168.0.50>,
Stephen Pelc <stephenXXX@INVALID.mpeforth.com> wrote:
>On Fri, 20 Jan 2012 10:11:45 -0800 (PST), Krishna Myneni
><krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> wrote:
>
>>But, for now, I'd settle for the ability to traverse the wordlist and
>>obtain the word name at each node of the traversal. I haven't seen
>>anything in this thread to suggest that there would be any great
>>difficulty to providing such words within any existing Forth system.
>
>Before you can standardise, you need common practice. A good way
>to start is to keep a lot of systems on your working PC and to scan
>the sources regularly.
>
>The VFX traversal words are:
>
>: WalkWordList  \ xt wid --
>\ Walk through a wordlist calling the definition XT for each word.
>\ The definitions are walked in reverse chronological order.
>\ The definition at XT will be passed the THREAD# and NFA.
>\ The XT definition has the stack form:
>\ *E : MyDef    \ thread# nfa -- flag ; Return TRUE to continue

This exact same word is present in ciforth called FOR-WORDS

<SNIP>

>
>Stephen

Groetjes Albert

--
-- 
Albert van der Horst, UTRECHT,THE NETHERLANDS
Economic growth -- being exponential -- ultimately falters.
albert@spe&ar&c.xs4all.nl &=n http://home.hccnet.nl/a.w.m.van.der.horst

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#9123

FromBruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net>
Date2012-01-21 17:22 -0800
Message-ID<1d53658b-b57a-4d6a-9ba5-c84e3bab5fb5@z12g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
In reply to#9097
On Jan 20, 1:43 pm, stephen...@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) wrote:
> Before you can standardise, you need common practice. A good way
> to start is to keep a lot of systems on your working PC and to scan
> the sources regularly.

> The VFX traversal words are:

> : WalkWordList  \ xt wid --
> \ Walk through a wordlist calling the definition XT for each word.
> \ The definitions are walked in reverse chronological order.
> \ The definition at XT will be passed the THREAD# and NFA.
> \ The XT definition has the stack form:
> \ *E : MyDef    \ thread# nfa -- flag ; Return TRUE to continue

This seems to be the function under discussion ... I am assuming that
the nfa could be generalized to an nt as the cfa has been generalized
to an xt ~ but what is "thread#" in the argument to the xt?

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#9140

FromstephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc)
Date2012-01-22 18:31 +0000
Message-ID<4f1c5451.268400765@192.168.0.50>
In reply to#9123
On Sat, 21 Jan 2012 17:22:04 -0800 (PST), BruceMcF
<agila61@netscape.net> wrote:

>> : WalkWordList =A0\ xt wid --
>> \ Walk through a wordlist calling the definition XT for each word.
>> \ The definitions are walked in reverse chronological order.
>> \ The definition at XT will be passed the THREAD# and NFA.
>> \ The XT definition has the stack form:
>> \ *E : MyDef =A0 =A0\ thread# nfa -- flag ; Return TRUE to continue
>
>This seems to be the function under discussion ... I am assuming that
>the nfa could be generalized to an nt as the cfa has been generalized
>to an xt ~ but what is "thread#" in the argument to the xt?

Thread# (0..n-1) identifies which of n threads the name is in. 

NFA could be an xt, but in the majority of cases the NFA is of
more use.

Given the number of ways of hashing/threading a dictionary and
the number of ways of building a "name field", there is a large
number of ways to specify a word such as this.

Stephen

-- 
Stephen Pelc, stephenXXX@mpeforth.com
MicroProcessor Engineering Ltd - More Real, Less Time
133 Hill Lane, Southampton SO15 5AF, England
tel: +44 (0)23 8063 1441, fax: +44 (0)23 8033 9691
web: http://www.mpeforth.com - free VFX Forth downloads

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