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Re: A Forth Story...

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Mark Wills wrote:
>> we stopped using Forth long ago for much the same reason:
>> it is a niche tool for loners
> 
> On the face of it, I'm inclined to agree, however there are numerous
> published examples of Forth being used very successfully in multi-
> programmer projects, by both Forth Inc, and MPE. The Saudi airport and
> the bomb dis-arming robot being two examples.
> 
> Any other anecdotes to prove or disprove the argument?

The human psyche strongly discourages not to follow the mainstream.  If 
you do something odd, and it's more successful, then it's "cheating".  
You have to go through this punch cards, through the printed out 
listings, compilers, linkers, etc., and it has to be hard and awkward, 
and using Forth instead and getting the job done quickly is just 
cheating.  You may be allowed to do so when you are a top programmer, 
and sweap the ground with your fellow programmers in any other language, 
too, because then, it's your superior knowledge, no longer cheating.  
But then, their excuse is "we are mere mortals, we can not program in 
this super-hero language".

Humans resist change.  Forth, 40 years ago, was extremely odd.  It lost 
a good part of its oddness, since the classic compiled programming 
language is on a global retreat.  It is still odd with its stack and its 
lack of syntax or typing system, but strong typing is no longer popular, 
either.

Apart from this psychological aspect, the resist of change, which leads 
to loners doing their stuff in Forth (because a loner does not care 
about the herd), there is nothing that prevents cooperation in Forth.  
Like with any other language, good cooperative programming is a 
management issue, not a technical issue.  You have to identify which 
person fits which role in the team (people are not all equal), and you 
have to make people communicate (they often don't on their own).  You 
have to set guidelines, and common coding style (it is much easier for a 
group of people to read each other's code if it uses the same style - 
and that works, regardless if it's Forth Inc.'s terse horizontal style, 
or a more elaborated vertical style found elsewhere).

-- 
Bernd Paysan
"If you want it done right, you have to do it yourself"
http://bernd-paysan.de/

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Thread

A Forth Story... Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-04-04 04:19 -0700
  Re: A Forth Story... Mentifex <mentifex@myuw.net> - 2012-04-04 11:04 -0700
  Re: A Forth Story... "A. K." <akk@nospam.org> - 2012-04-04 21:08 +0200
    Re: A Forth Story... Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-04-04 12:29 -0700
      Re: A Forth Story... Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-04-04 23:02 +0200
    Re: A Forth Story... "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-04-04 10:42 -1000
      Re: A Forth Story... "A. K." <akk@nospam.org> - 2012-04-04 23:08 +0200
        Re: A Forth Story... "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-04-04 11:17 -1000
          Re: A Forth Story... hwfwguy@gmail.com - 2012-04-05 09:59 -0700
            Re: A Forth Story... dirk.bruehl@usa.net - 2012-04-05 20:51 -0700
  Re: A Forth Story... dirk.bruehl@usa.net - 2012-04-05 00:08 -0700
    Re: A Forth Story... Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-04-05 00:47 -0700
      Re: A Forth Story... dirk.bruehl@usa.net - 2012-04-05 20:17 -0700
        Re: A Forth Story... "P.M.Lawrence" <pml540114@gmail.com> - 2012-04-05 23:47 -0700
  Re: A Forth Story... dirk.bruehl@usa.net - 2012-04-04 23:54 -0700
    Re: A Forth Story... Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-04-05 02:02 -0700
  Re: A Forth Story... Fanzo <cristianof6@gmail.com> - 2012-04-05 19:49 +0200
  Re: A Forth Story... Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-04-06 07:02 -0700
    Re: A Forth Story... Steve Graham <jsgrahamus@yahoo.com> - 2012-04-06 09:15 -0600
  Re: A Forth Story... Wasif Hyder <wasif_hyder@hotmail.com> - 2012-04-08 11:10 -0700

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