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Re: pop quiz for Forth novices

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Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> writes:

> On Jul 30, 10:01 pm, Aleksej Saushev <a...@inbox.ru> wrote:
> [snipped]
>>
>> The problem is that...
>
> The problem is you. You keep telling me what I'm thinking, what I'm
> doing, what opinions I hold and so on. It's an irritating habit, and
> doesn't make for a high quality discussion. Now you're shouting at me
> like some usenet fruitcake. Is there a serious point you wish to
> discuss? If there is, dig it out and make it without using the word
> "you".

There is serious point, and it involves you. Directly. Personally.

This particular flame outburst is caused by you. It was your thinking
inside C box here that caused this discussion with the surrealistic
outcome of "noone in C world uses it, hence it is generally useless."

In particular, you haven't brought any evidence why it is generally
useless, while anyone familiar with at least Unix-like systems would be
correct to point you to one simple fact that there exist many things
determined by early misdesigns that stuck. The latter is well-know in
the world around Unix. In fact, it is part of required knowledge of Unix
programmer to know which standard interfaces or features not to use.

In addition, there is a long-running tradition of using the lowest common
denominator, when some code would be intentionally implemented
ineffectively in order to build and run on some strange Unix version.
There's a heavy legacy which played against many extensions in Unix
systems besides very effective ones.

You pretended to have competence in this and were demonstrated to have none.
It wouldn't be a problem at all, if you didn't teach others about design.
"This is a fundamental design problem in your code, not a problem with
the memory allocation words that Forth provides," those were your words.

I understand that it is irritating to find someone who knows something
better than you. But then it is your problem again. Not mine. I don't
claim competence in systems I don't actually know (e.g. z/OS), and
I don't pull arguments about design quality of not exporting "dynamic sizeof"
basing on assumptions that if it wasn't done then it was supported
by some experimental evidence rather than a mere historical accident.
(That it might be the latter is demonstrated by the fact that PalmOS,
which was designed somewhat independently of Unix-BSD line, does have
the proposed "dynamic sizeof".)

I agree with you on one point though. It is useless to discuss anything
with you until you change your attitude in respect of pulling arguments
you cannot support with any evidence, be it historical or experimental.
And until you stop playing rhetoric tricks by turning serious arguments
into personal plane. If I point that your reasoning is based on your
personal experience limited to "Linux, BSD, every version of IBM
mainframe systems to z/OS and others" is wrong here, since it is
mostly based on the same source that isn't relevant when discussing
a programming language, then it might be really wrong.
Besides, there's no straight way to express it without the word "you".
English isn't rich enough for it, it looks heavy-weight with passive
voice in each sentence.


-- 
HE CE3OH...

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Re: pop quiz for Forth novices Aleksej Saushev <asau@inbox.ru> - 2012-07-29 23:02 +0400
  Re: pop quiz for Forth novices Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2012-07-30 03:41 -0700
    Re: pop quiz for Forth novices Aleksej Saushev <asau@inbox.ru> - 2012-07-31 01:01 +0400
      Re: pop quiz for Forth novices Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2012-07-31 00:26 -0700
        Re: pop quiz for Forth novices Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-07-31 01:10 -0700
        Re: pop quiz for Forth novices Aleksej Saushev <asau@inbox.ru> - 2012-08-02 05:08 +0400
          Re: pop quiz for Forth novices Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2012-08-02 00:12 -0700

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