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Re: double tasking with two interpreters

From stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc)
Newsgroups comp.lang.forth
Subject Re: double tasking with two interpreters
Message-ID <4fc52a05.1256141375@192.168.0.50> (permalink)
References <7xmx4tckcg.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <4fc4b6f6.1226686842@192.168.0.50> <7xpq9m6ed8.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Date 2012-05-29 20:15 +0000

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On Tue, 29 May 2012 11:17:39 -0700, Paul Rubin
<no.email@nospam.invalid> wrote:

>> MSP430 is becoming more popular because the Lauchpads cost $4.30.
>> We got Nuvoton and some STM32 boards for less.
>
>Interesting.  Do they have anything like the retail accessibility of the
>Launchpads, and comparable FOSS toolchains and so on?

There are a gazillion free and FOSS toolchains for ARM and Cortex.
MPE has broken them all at one time or another. Start with Code
Sourcery. But note that significant Forth developments come from
the vendors, especially for embedded systems.

In terms of hobby access, look for the STM32F4 Discovery board (yum,
yum) and the STM32F0 board. Whether it's $4.30 or $12, who cares?
Personally, I think it's a USAnian disease to worry about hardware
price alone. At board level, the cost of silicon is rapidly declining
towards zero, leaving the cost of the board dependent on the PCB
and the volume.

Yes, you probably can achieve slightly less idle power with a an
MSP430, but what matters is system consumption. There are several
people, e.g. Energy Micro, who will argue that system consumption
on a Cortex-M3 is better than that of an MSP430.

We have clients who use ARMs for underwater instrumentation, and
they report that the new hardware uses less overall power than the
previous 16 bit hardware. The 32 bit systems are just so much more
power efficient at doing the crunching.

>> The real problem is the assumption of 128 bytes. Why deal with
>> the 1970s in the 2010s?
>
>In that case, remind me again why we're talking about Forth ;-).

Because Forth moved on significantly about 10-15 years ago and the 
functionality per 100kb of Forth cannot be beat. Even with the
text interpreter left in. Once you accept the changes of the 
modern world, you can stop worrying about 128 bytes on an
embedded system. You can have full-blown text interpreter and
life becomes quite delightful again.

Stephen

-- 
Stephen Pelc, stephenXXX@mpeforth.com
MicroProcessor Engineering Ltd - More Real, Less Time
133 Hill Lane, Southampton SO15 5AF, England
tel: +44 (0)23 8063 1441, fax: +44 (0)23 8033 9691
web: http://www.mpeforth.com - free VFX Forth downloads

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double tasking with two interpreters Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-05-27 15:47 -0700
  Re: double tasking with two interpreters "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-05-27 13:58 -1000
    Re: double tasking with two interpreters Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-05-27 18:35 -0700
      Re: double tasking with two interpreters BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-05-27 20:14 -0700
      Re: double tasking with two interpreters "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-05-27 18:38 -1000
  Re: double tasking with two interpreters "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailntt.cmm> - 2012-05-28 12:08 -0400
    Re: double tasking with two interpreters Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-05-28 09:21 -0700
      Re: double tasking with two interpreters BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-05-28 10:11 -0700
      Re: double tasking with two interpreters "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-05-28 07:24 -1000
        Re: double tasking with two interpreters Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-05-28 11:11 -0700
          Re: double tasking with two interpreters "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-05-28 11:23 -1000
            Re: double tasking with two interpreters Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-05-28 14:36 -0700
              Re: double tasking with two interpreters "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-05-28 12:52 -1000
                Re: double tasking with two interpreters Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-05-28 17:14 -0700
                Re: double tasking with two interpreters "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-05-28 15:33 -1000
                Re: double tasking with two interpreters Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-05-28 18:53 -0700
                Re: double tasking with two interpreters "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-05-28 22:34 -1000
                Re: double tasking with two interpreters Dirk Bruehl <dirk.bruehl@usa.net> - 2012-05-29 14:57 -0700
          Re: double tasking with two interpreters Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-05-29 22:16 +0200
            Re: double tasking with two interpreters "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-05-29 10:57 -1000
              Re: double tasking with two interpreters Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-05-29 14:23 -0700
        Re: double tasking with two interpreters Rugxulo <rugxulo@gmail.com> - 2012-05-29 00:22 -0700
    Re: double tasking with two interpreters "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailntt.cmm> - 2012-05-28 12:42 -0400
      Re: double tasking with two interpreters "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailntt.cmm> - 2012-05-28 13:07 -0400
        Re: double tasking with two interpreters Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2012-05-28 21:39 +0200
      Re: double tasking with two interpreters Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2012-05-29 12:56 +0000
    Re: double tasking with two interpreters Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-05-29 22:12 +0200
  Re: double tasking with two interpreters anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-05-29 08:19 +0000
  Re: double tasking with two interpreters stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2012-05-29 11:52 +0000
    Re: double tasking with two interpreters Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-05-29 11:17 -0700
      Re: double tasking with two interpreters stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2012-05-29 20:15 +0000
        Re: double tasking with two interpreters Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-05-30 09:12 -0700
          Re: double tasking with two interpreters Dirk Bruehl <dirk.bruehl@usa.net> - 2012-05-30 20:20 -0700
    Re: double tasking with two interpreters Dirk Bruehl <dirk.bruehl@usa.net> - 2012-05-29 11:25 -0700
  Re: double tasking with two interpreters Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2012-05-29 12:52 +0000
    Re: double tasking with two interpreters stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2012-05-29 13:29 +0000
      Re: double tasking with two interpreters BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-05-29 08:29 -0700
      Re: double tasking with two interpreters John Passaniti <john.passaniti@gmail.com> - 2012-05-29 14:24 -0700
        Re: double tasking with two interpreters Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-05-30 01:59 -0700
          Re: double tasking with two interpreters Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-05-30 03:05 -0700
            Re: double tasking with two interpreters Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-05-30 03:19 -0700
              Re: double tasking with two interpreters Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-05-30 08:24 -0700
          Re: double tasking with two interpreters John Passaniti <john.passaniti@gmail.com> - 2012-05-30 07:20 -0700
            Re: double tasking with two interpreters Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2012-05-31 11:32 +0000
              Re: double tasking with two interpreters John Passaniti <john.passaniti@gmail.com> - 2012-06-01 07:07 -0700
    Re: double tasking with two interpreters "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailntt.cmm> - 2012-05-29 11:55 -0400
      Re: double tasking with two interpreters "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-05-29 08:23 -1000
    Re: double tasking with two interpreters Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-05-29 11:39 -0700
      Re: double tasking with two interpreters BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-05-29 12:26 -0700
      Re: double tasking with two interpreters Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2012-05-30 09:34 +0000
        Re: double tasking with two interpreters Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-05-30 03:02 -0700
          Re: double tasking with two interpreters Arnold Doray <invalid@invalid.com> - 2012-05-30 14:10 +0000
            Re: double tasking with two interpreters Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-05-30 08:34 -0700
              Re: double tasking with two interpreters Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2012-05-31 11:44 +0000
                Re: double tasking with two interpreters Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2012-05-31 07:02 -0700
          Re: double tasking with two interpreters BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-05-31 07:17 -0700
    Re: double tasking with two interpreters David Kuehling <dvdkhlng@gmx.de> - 2012-05-31 10:09 +0200
      Re: double tasking with two interpreters Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-05-31 02:07 -0700

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