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Groups > comp.lang.c > #122580 > unrolled thread

"The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond

Started byLynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com>
First post2017-11-14 16:13 -0600
Last post2017-11-20 10:39 -0500
Articles 20 on this page of 450 — 38 participants

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Contents

  "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2017-11-14 16:13 -0600
    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-11-14 15:19 -0800
      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-15 09:10 +0100
        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-15 15:02 +0000
          Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-11-15 07:08 -0800
            Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-15 15:15 +0000
              Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-11-15 09:09 -0800
          Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "Pascal J. Bourguignon" <pjb@informatimago.com> - 2017-11-15 16:16 +0100
            Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-15 15:32 +0000
            Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Melzzzzz <Melzzzzz@zzzzz.com> - 2017-11-15 15:32 +0000
              Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "Pascal J. Bourguignon" <pjb@informatimago.com> - 2017-11-15 21:45 +0100
            Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-11-15 10:40 -0800
              Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-11-15 11:13 -0800
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-11-15 12:18 -0800
                  Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-11-15 12:29 -0800
                    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-11-15 13:06 -0800
                      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-16 10:37 +1300
                        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-11-15 14:07 -0800
              Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "Pascal J. Bourguignon" <pjb@informatimago.com> - 2017-11-15 21:47 +0100
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-11-15 13:32 -0800
          Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-15 17:27 +0100
            Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-15 19:13 +0000
              Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-16 01:09 +0100
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-16 11:42 +0000
                  Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-16 13:52 +0100
                    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-16 05:12 -0800
                      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-16 14:58 +0100
                        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2017-11-16 06:39 -0800
                          Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-11-16 06:44 -0800
                        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-16 07:46 -0800
                          Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-16 21:08 +0100
                            Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-17 02:44 -0800
                    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-16 05:27 -0800
                      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-16 15:13 +0100
                        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-16 07:55 -0800
                      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-17 11:11 +0000
                        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-17 03:40 -0800
                        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-17 15:44 +0100
                          Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-17 15:30 +0000
                            Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-17 17:27 +0100
                          Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-17 07:55 -0800
                      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-11-17 10:48 -0800
                        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-17 11:28 -0800
                          Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-11-17 11:54 -0800
                            Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-17 12:20 -0800
                    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-16 14:18 +0000
                      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-16 16:40 +0100
                      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-11-16 16:43 +0000
                        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "Pascal J. Bourguignon" <pjb@informatimago.com> - 2017-11-16 18:43 +0100
                          Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-11-16 23:40 +0000
                            Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "Pascal J. Bourguignon" <pjb@informatimago.com> - 2017-11-17 20:52 +0100
                        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-17 00:07 +0000
                          Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-11-17 00:27 +0000
                          Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-11-16 16:35 -0800
                            Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-17 00:53 +0000
                              Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-17 09:44 +0100
                                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-17 10:38 +0000
                                  Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-17 23:47 +1300
                                    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-17 11:20 +0000
                                  Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-17 16:26 +0100
                                    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-17 15:50 +0000
                                      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond mark.bluemel@gmail.com - 2017-11-17 07:55 -0800
                                        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-18 14:28 +0000
                                          Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2017-11-18 10:10 -0800
                                            Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-18 18:35 +0000
                                              Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2017-11-18 11:47 -0800
                                                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-18 20:35 +0000
                                                  Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-11-18 12:53 -0800
                                                    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-11-18 22:26 +0000
                                                    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-19 00:11 +0000
                                                      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-11-18 18:07 -0800
                                                        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-19 11:01 +0000
                                                          Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-11-19 11:57 -0800
                                                            Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-19 20:17 +0000
                                                              Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-11-19 12:54 -0800
                                                                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-19 21:02 +0000
                                                            Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2017-11-19 21:12 +0000
                                                    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2017-11-18 16:51 -0800
                                                  Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2017-11-18 14:07 -0800
                                                    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-19 12:41 +0000
                                                      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2017-11-19 07:59 -0800
                                                        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-19 17:38 +0000
                                                          Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2017-11-19 13:10 -0800
                                                            Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-19 22:30 +0000
                                                              Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2017-11-19 15:33 -0800
                                                        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2017-11-19 21:58 -0700
                                                          Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "Pascal J. Bourguignon" <pjb@informatimago.com> - 2017-11-20 06:53 +0100
                                                          Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-11-20 10:18 -0500
                                                      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-20 08:44 +0100
                                                        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-11-20 10:22 -0500
                                                        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2017-11-20 19:25 +0000
                                              Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-11-18 20:52 +0000
                                                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-11-18 13:07 -0800
                                                  Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-11-19 01:40 +0000
                                                    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-11-18 19:12 -0800
                                                      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-11-19 03:54 +0000
                                                        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-11-19 06:56 -0800
                                                          Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-11-19 15:42 +0000
                                                            Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-11-19 07:45 -0800
                                                        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-11-20 17:08 +0000
                                                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-18 21:45 +0000
                                                  Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-11-19 01:17 +0000
                                                  Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-19 22:05 +0100
                                                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-19 11:25 +1300
                                                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-11-18 21:54 -0500
                                                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-19 21:44 +0100
                                                  Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2017-11-19 16:50 -0600
                                                    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-19 23:56 +0100
                                                      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-19 23:18 +0000
                                                        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2017-11-19 22:43 -0600
                                                        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-20 09:06 +0100
                                                          Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-20 10:45 +0000
                                                            Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-20 12:25 +0100
                                                              Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-20 11:52 +0000
                                                                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-20 13:19 +0100
                                                                  Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-20 13:23 +0000
                                                                    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-20 16:22 +0100
                                                                      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-20 15:48 +0000
                                                                        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-11-20 16:31 +0000
                                                        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-20 04:10 -0800
                                                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond mark.bluemel@gmail.com - 2017-11-20 01:00 -0800
                                              Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-19 21:23 +0100
                                                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-19 20:41 +0000
                                                  Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-19 23:12 +0100
                                                    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-19 22:37 +0000
                                                      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-19 23:52 +0100
                                                        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-20 11:18 +0000
                                                          Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-20 12:34 +0100
                                                            Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2017-11-20 03:56 -0800
                                                              Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-20 13:36 +0100
                                                                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2017-11-20 05:19 -0800
                                                                  Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-20 16:37 +0100
                                                                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-11-20 14:31 +0000
                                                                  Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2017-11-20 07:14 -0800
                                                                    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-20 16:54 +0100
                                                                      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond mark.bluemel@gmail.com - 2017-11-20 08:05 -0800
                                                                        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-11-20 11:18 -0500
                                                                          Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-20 20:11 +0100
                                                                            Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-11-20 14:27 -0500
                                                                              Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-11-20 11:40 -0800
                                                                              Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-20 22:17 +0100
                                                                            Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-21 09:01 +1300
                                                                              Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-20 22:21 +0100
                                                                                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-21 10:37 +1300
                                                                      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2017-11-20 09:36 -0800
                                                                        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-20 20:14 +0100
                                                                        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2017-11-20 12:18 -0700
                                                                        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-11-20 11:33 -0800
                                                                      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-11-20 11:48 -0800
                                                                    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-11-20 16:26 +0000
                                                                    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-20 19:10 +0000
                                                                      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-21 09:53 +1300
                                                                        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-21 03:42 -0800
                                                                          Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-21 13:18 +0100
                                                                            Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-21 04:49 -0800
                                                                              Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-21 15:49 +0100
                                                                                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2017-11-21 07:41 -0800
                                                                          Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-21 12:39 +0000
                                                                          Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-22 08:20 +1300
                                                                          Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-11-21 12:33 -0800
                                                                            Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-11-21 15:58 -0500
                                                                              Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-21 16:41 -0800
                                                                                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-22 01:01 +0000
                                                                                  Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-22 14:21 +1300
                                                                                    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-22 01:50 +0000
                                                                                      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-22 14:57 +1300
                                                                                    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2017-11-22 18:31 +0000
                                                                                      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-11-22 10:58 -0800
                                                                                        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2017-11-22 20:50 +0000
                                                                                          Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-11-22 13:04 -0800
                                                                                          Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2017-11-22 13:09 -0800
                                                                                            Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2017-11-24 06:24 +0000
                                                                                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2017-11-21 20:01 -0600
                                                                                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-22 10:00 +0100
                                                                                  Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-22 11:03 +0000
                                                                                    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-22 12:38 +0100
                                                                                      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> - 2017-11-22 11:50 +0000
                                                                                        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-22 15:18 +0100
                                                                                      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-22 13:19 +0000
                                                                                        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-22 15:47 +0100
                                                                                          Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-22 16:04 +0000
                                                                                            Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-11-22 16:45 +0000
                                                                                              Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-11-22 12:08 -0500
                                                                                                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2017-11-22 10:02 -0800
                                                                                                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-22 21:56 +0100
                                                                                              Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-22 20:22 +0000
                                                                                                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-22 21:59 +0100
                                                                                                  Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-22 21:15 +0000
                                                                                                    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2017-11-22 13:37 -0800
                                                                                                      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-22 22:04 +0000
                                                                                                        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-23 18:25 +1300
                                                                                                          Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-23 18:16 +0000
                                                                                                            Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-23 10:27 -0800
                                                                                                            Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2017-11-23 12:50 -0800
                                                                                                        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-23 09:18 +0100
                                                                                                    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-23 09:15 +0100
                                                                                                      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-11-23 12:48 -0800
                                                                                                        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-23 22:18 +0000
                                                                                                        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-24 09:38 +0100
                                                                                                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-22 21:00 +0000
                                                                                                  Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-11-22 13:40 -0800
                                                                                                    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-22 22:24 +0000
                                                                                                      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-11-22 15:18 -0800
                                                                                                    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> - 2017-11-23 02:34 +0000
                                                                                                  Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-22 13:45 -0800
                                                                                                    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-22 14:34 -0800
                                                                                                  Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-23 18:16 +1300
                                                                                                    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-23 10:23 +0000
                                                                                                      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-23 12:13 +0100
                                                                                                  Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-23 09:30 +0100
                                                                                                    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2017-11-23 02:21 -0800
                                                                                                    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-23 13:49 +0000
                                                                                                      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-23 16:07 +0100
                                                                                                        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-23 16:03 +0000
                                                                                                          Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-24 09:09 +0100
                                                                                                      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-24 08:02 +1300
                                                                                                        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-23 11:26 -0800
                                                                                                          Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-23 11:37 -0800
                                                                                                          Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-23 19:56 +0000
                                                                                                            Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-23 12:07 -0800
                                                                                                              Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-23 20:31 +0000
                                                                                                              Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-23 12:38 -0800
                                                                                                        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-23 19:32 +0000
                                                                                                          Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-24 08:34 +1300
                                                                                                            Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-23 20:24 +0000
                                                                                                            Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2017-11-24 06:34 +0000
                                                                                                              Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-24 20:05 +1300
                                                                                                                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-24 11:57 +0000
                                                                                                                  Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-24 04:25 -0800
                                                                                                                    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-24 13:02 +0000
                                                                                                                      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-24 07:31 -0800
                                                                                                                      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2017-11-24 13:32 -0500
                                                                                                                        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-11-24 14:05 -0800
                                                                                                                  Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-25 12:03 +1300
                                                                                                                    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Sjouke Burry <burrynulnulfour@ppllaanneett.nnll> - 2017-11-25 00:23 +0100
                                                                                                                    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-25 00:41 +0000
                                                                                                                      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Melzzzzz <Melzzzzz@zzzzz.com> - 2017-11-25 00:58 +0000
                                                                                                                      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2017-11-24 20:28 -0500
                                                                                                                        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-25 02:36 +0000
                                                                                                                          Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Melzzzzz <Melzzzzz@zzzzz.com> - 2017-11-25 02:53 +0000
                                                                                                                          Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2017-11-24 22:42 -0600
                                                                                                                          Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2017-11-25 10:34 -0500
                                                                                                                            Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2017-11-25 17:13 +0000
                                                                                                                              Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2017-11-25 13:32 -0500
                                                                                                                                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-25 10:38 -0800
                                                                                                                                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2017-11-25 19:17 +0000
                                                                                                                            Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-26 08:43 +1300
                                                                                                                      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-25 19:46 +1300
                                                                                                                        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-25 11:14 +0000
                                                                                      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond luser droog <luser.droog@gmail.com> - 2017-11-22 08:44 -0800
                                                                                  Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-22 03:19 -0800
                                                                                  Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-11-22 09:45 -0500
                                                                                    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-22 15:52 +0100
                                                                    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2017-11-20 12:14 -0700
                                                                  Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-20 16:45 +0100
                                                      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-20 17:12 +1300
                                                      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Reinhardt Behm <rbehm@hushmail.com> - 2017-11-20 13:14 +0800
                                                      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond asetofsymbols@gmail.com - 2017-11-19 22:38 -0800
                                          Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-19 18:43 +0100
                                            Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-19 18:07 +0000
                                              Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2017-11-19 10:38 -0800
                                              Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-19 22:30 +0100
                                                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2017-11-19 14:22 -0800
                                              Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond ruben safir <ruben@mrbrklyn.com> - 2017-11-25 11:46 -0500
                                                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-25 17:19 +0000
                                                  Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-26 08:46 +1300
                                                    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-25 20:59 +0000
                                                      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-26 11:54 +1300
                                                        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-25 23:34 +0000
                                                          Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-26 14:19 +1300
                                                            Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-26 11:39 +0000
                                                              Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-26 13:20 +0100
                                                                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-26 13:43 +0000
                                                                  Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-26 17:32 +0100
                                                                    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-26 17:31 +0000
                                                                      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-26 22:11 +0100
                                                    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2017-11-26 06:53 +0000
                                            Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-19 19:50 +0000
                                      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-17 17:37 +0100
                                    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2017-11-17 07:54 -0800
                                      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-17 17:45 +0100
                                      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-11-17 11:15 -0800
                                        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2017-11-17 19:36 +0000
                                        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-19 23:03 +0100
                                    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-17 16:02 +0000
                                      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-17 08:12 -0800
                                      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-11-17 16:44 +0000
                                      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-17 17:53 +0100
                                      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-18 08:04 +1300
                                        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-17 19:46 +0000
                                          Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-18 11:12 +1300
                                            Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-17 23:00 +0000
                                              Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-18 12:14 +1300
                                                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-17 23:35 +0000
                                                  Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-18 13:27 +1300
                                                    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-18 01:57 +0000
                                                      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-19 12:09 +1300
                                                        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-18 23:39 +0000
                                                          Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-19 13:30 +1300
                                                            Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-19 01:17 +0000
                                                              Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-19 14:37 +1300
                                                    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-18 12:52 +0000
                                                      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-19 10:33 +1300
                                                        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-11-18 22:04 -0500
                                                          Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-19 17:30 +1300
                                    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-17 08:02 -0800
                                      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-23 03:15 -0800
                                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2017-11-17 17:39 +0000
                    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2017-11-16 19:13 +0000
                  Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2017-11-16 06:48 -0800
                    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-11-16 17:03 +0000
                      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2017-11-16 09:24 -0800
                        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-16 09:45 -0800
                        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-11-16 10:57 -0800
                        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-16 14:13 -0600
                          Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-11-17 11:24 -0800
                            Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-18 09:53 -0600
                        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-11-16 23:44 +0000
                  Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-11-16 08:35 -0800
        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2017-11-15 16:28 -0800
        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-15 23:00 -0600
          Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-16 14:38 +0000
            Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-16 12:15 -0600
              Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-17 00:44 +0000
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-17 13:54 -0600
              Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-17 09:51 +0100
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-17 12:28 -0600
                  Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-11-17 10:56 -0800
                  Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-11-17 11:47 -0800
                    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-11-17 20:16 +0000
                      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-11-17 12:57 -0800
                      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-17 15:07 -0600
    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2017-11-15 02:33 +0100
      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-11-14 18:21 -0800
      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> - 2017-11-15 04:04 +0000
        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2017-11-15 01:56 -0800
          Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> - 2017-11-15 10:49 +0000
            Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2017-11-15 03:42 -0800
              Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-15 13:13 +0100
          Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-15 12:16 +0100
          Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-11-15 11:47 +0000
      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-16 04:58 -0800
        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-16 15:22 +0100
          Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-16 08:07 -0800
            Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-16 16:17 -0600
        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> - 2017-11-16 14:45 +0000
          Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-16 08:21 -0800
        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-11-16 08:25 -0800
          Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-16 08:37 -0800
            Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-11-16 10:44 -0800
              Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-16 11:16 -0800
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-17 04:39 -0800
        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2017-11-16 19:51 +0100
          Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-16 11:37 -0800
            Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-16 11:58 -0800
            Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-11-16 12:09 -0800
              Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-17 02:53 -0800
          Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-11-16 20:36 +0000
            Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-11-16 12:40 -0800
            Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2017-11-16 23:54 +0100
              Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2017-11-16 18:08 -0500
              Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Melzzzzz <Melzzzzz@zzzzz.com> - 2017-11-16 23:27 +0000
              Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-17 12:32 +1300
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2017-11-18 06:50 -0500
                  Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-11-18 04:15 -0800
                    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-18 12:44 +0000
              Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-17 10:10 +0100
              Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-11-17 14:02 +0000
            Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2017-11-16 18:06 -0500
              Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2017-11-17 01:01 +0100
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2017-11-18 06:45 -0500
                  Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2017-11-18 13:07 +0000
                    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2017-11-19 09:16 -0500
              Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-11-16 16:03 -0800
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2017-11-18 06:47 -0500
                  Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Melzzzzz <Melzzzzz@zzzzz.com> - 2017-11-18 13:13 +0000
                  Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-18 14:04 +0000
                    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Melzzzzz <Melzzzzz@zzzzz.com> - 2017-11-18 14:38 +0000
                      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-11-18 09:59 -0800
                    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-11-20 13:23 -0800
              Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-17 10:30 +0100
              Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2017-11-18 14:42 +0100
          Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-17 16:43 +1300
            Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-17 10:32 +0100
    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2017-11-15 22:17 +0800
      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "Pascal J. Bourguignon" <pjb@informatimago.com> - 2017-11-15 15:54 +0100
        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-15 15:12 +0000
          Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Melzzzzz <Melzzzzz@zzzzz.com> - 2017-11-15 15:15 +0000
            Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-15 15:35 +0000
              Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-15 17:31 +0100
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-11-15 08:39 -0800
                  Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-11-15 17:10 +0000
                    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-11-15 17:31 +0000
                    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-15 18:26 +0000
                      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-16 01:19 +0100
                  Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-11-15 10:54 -0800
            Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "Pascal J. Bourguignon" <pjb@informatimago.com> - 2017-11-15 21:42 +0100
              Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Melzzzzz <Melzzzzz@zzzzz.com> - 2017-11-15 22:52 +0000
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-15 23:46 +0000
                  Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Melzzzzz <Melzzzzz@zzzzz.com> - 2017-11-15 23:56 +0000
              Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-11-16 13:29 +0000
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-11-16 05:43 -0800
                  Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-11-16 14:53 +0000
                    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-11-16 07:00 -0800
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "Pascal J. Bourguignon" <pjb@informatimago.com> - 2017-11-16 16:10 +0100
                  Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-11-16 16:10 +0000
                    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-11-16 11:42 -0500
                      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-11-16 17:06 +0000
                        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-11-16 09:37 -0800
          Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "Pascal J. Bourguignon" <pjb@informatimago.com> - 2017-11-15 21:42 +0100
        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-11-15 15:16 +0000
        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-11-15 12:25 -0500
          Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "Pascal J. Bourguignon" <pjb@informatimago.com> - 2017-11-15 21:50 +0100
            Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-11-15 15:54 -0500
              Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "Pascal J. Bourguignon" <pjb@informatimago.com> - 2017-11-15 23:36 +0100
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-11-15 17:47 -0500
                  Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "Pascal J. Bourguignon" <pjb@informatimago.com> - 2017-11-16 00:44 +0100
                    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Melzzzzz <Melzzzzz@zzzzz.com> - 2017-11-15 23:54 +0000
                      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "Pascal J. Bourguignon" <pjb@informatimago.com> - 2017-11-16 01:28 +0100
                        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-11-15 16:46 -0800
                          Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Melzzzzz <Melzzzzz@zzzzz.com> - 2017-11-16 00:49 +0000
                          Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "Pascal J. Bourguignon" <pjb@informatimago.com> - 2017-11-16 15:47 +0100
                            Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Melzzzzz <Melzzzzz@zzzzz.com> - 2017-11-16 15:46 +0000
                              Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "Pascal J. Bourguignon" <pjb@informatimago.com> - 2017-11-16 17:26 +0100
                                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> - 2017-11-16 17:14 +0000
                                  Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2017-11-16 13:34 -0600
                                    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-11-16 11:56 -0800
                          Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-16 15:19 -0600
                            Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-11-16 13:50 -0800
                              Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2017-11-16 18:11 -0500
                        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Melzzzzz <Melzzzzz@zzzzz.com> - 2017-11-16 00:49 +0000
                          Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2017-11-16 02:06 -0800
                            Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Melzzzzz <Melzzzzz@zzzzz.com> - 2017-11-16 15:43 +0000
                              Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> - 2017-11-16 16:01 +0000
                    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-11-15 16:21 -0800
                    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-11-15 22:24 -0500
                      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "Pascal J. Bourguignon" <pjb@informatimago.com> - 2017-11-16 16:01 +0100
                        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-11-16 11:54 -0500
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-11-15 14:54 -0800
        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2017-11-16 21:20 +0800
    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Jens Stuckelberger <Jens_Stuckelberger@nowhere.net> - 2017-11-15 15:17 +0000
      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-11-15 12:31 -0500
    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2017-11-15 16:07 +0000
    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond John Bode <jfbode1029@gmail.com> - 2017-11-15 11:08 -0800
      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-11-15 14:28 -0500
        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond John Bode <jfbode1029@gmail.com> - 2017-11-15 12:31 -0800
      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2017-11-15 16:28 -0800
      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2017-11-19 15:38 -0600
        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Reinhardt Behm <rbehm@hushmail.com> - 2017-11-20 12:55 +0800
          Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-11-20 10:39 -0500

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#122858

FromDavid Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Date2017-11-17 17:45 +0100
Message-ID<oun3n8$hm8$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#122843
On 17/11/17 16:54, Malcolm McLean wrote:
> On Friday, November 17, 2017 at 3:27:02 PM UTC, David Brown wrote:
>> On 17/11/17 11:38, bartc wrote:
>>
>> Again, /why/ ?  If the LuaJIT folks say their program is written in C,
>> and requires gcc or MSVC, then that's what it requires.  Any sane C
>> programmer who wants to use those source will have those tools.  No one
>> cares if it is difficult to compile using some home-made tool or a
>> compiler designed for /teaching/ compiler design, and no one cares it if
>> won't compile on something that does not support modern C standards.
>>
> You might want Lua to run in a C89 project.

No, I would not.  I haven't wanted to run /anything/ in a C89 project
for most of this century.  (I /have/ written some C89 code since C99
became reasonably well supported - but I have never /wanted/ to.)

There are no targets which are big enough to support Lua and which do
not have good quality C99 or C11 compilers.

(I also have no idea if Lua, or LuaJIT, require C99 - it was merely an
example.)

Also note that the project LuaJIT is not Lua - it is a Lua
implementation with JIT compilation.  That will, of necessity, be very
target specific for the processor it runs on, and will depend on details
of the compiler as well.

> If that can't be done, it might
> not be possible to use gcc. Depending on how central Lua is to the entire
> project, you might not get permission to change compiler minimal version
> just to support it.
> 

Then don't use Lua.

No real-life project is going to say "you /have/ to use ancient tools,
and you /have/ to support an embedded scripting language that does not
work with these tools - so you will have to re-write that language's
library and implementation".

It is such a hypothetical example that you might as well add the
requirement "and the documentation must be in Klingon to avoid any
national biases".

> That's why modules written in straight C are more valuable than modules
> written in other programming languages. If you want to call from C++,
>  Matlab, Objective C, it's relatively easy to merge the C source in. 
> 

Yes, that is true.  But if a library needs features from a particular
target or compiler, then it will be a little less portable.  And if - as
seems to be the case here - it needs tuning for the compiler but can
support several tools via conditional compilation, then it will still be
quite portable even if not fully portable.

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#122869

FromKeith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org>
Date2017-11-17 11:15 -0800
Message-ID<ln60a8yavp.fsf@kst-u.example.com>
In reply to#122843
Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> writes:
[...]
> You might want Lua to run in a C89 project.
[...]

According to Lua's documentation:

    Building Lua should be straightforward because Lua is implemented in
    pure ANSI C and compiles unmodified in all known platforms that have
    an ANSI C compiler.

-- 
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) kst-u@mib.org  <http://www.ghoti.net/~kst>
Working, but not speaking, for JetHead Development, Inc.
"We must do something.  This is something.  Therefore, we must do this."
    -- Antony Jay and Jonathan Lynn, "Yes Minister"

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#122874

Fromgazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack)
Date2017-11-17 19:36 +0000
Message-ID<oundnl$g5k$2@news.xmission.com>
In reply to#122869
In article <ln60a8yavp.fsf@kst-u.example.com>,
Keith Thompson  <kst-u@mib.org> wrote:
>Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> writes:
>[...]
>> You might want Lua to run in a C89 project.
>[...]
>
>According to Lua's documentation:
>
>    Building Lua should be straightforward because Lua is implemented in
>    pure ANSI C and compiles unmodified in all known platforms that have
>    an ANSI C compiler.

I've seen that, too (that Lua makes that claim).

However, it can't really be true, since Lua is capable of certain
system-specific things (including lots of POSIX stuff) that (obviously)
can't be accessed from "pure ANSI C".

-- 
The randomly chosen signature file that would have appeared here is more than 4
lines long.  As such, it violates one or more Usenet RFCs.  In order to remain
in compliance with said RFCs, the actual sig can be found at the following URL:
	http://user.xmission.com/~gazelle/Sigs/Reaganomics

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#123013

FromDavid Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Date2017-11-19 23:03 +0100
Message-ID<ousv40$is1$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#122869
On 17/11/17 20:15, Keith Thompson wrote:
> Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> writes:
> [...]
>> You might want Lua to run in a C89 project.
> [...]
> 
> According to Lua's documentation:
> 
>      Building Lua should be straightforward because Lua is implemented in
>      pure ANSI C and compiles unmodified in all known platforms that have
>      an ANSI C compiler.
> 

That is for Lua, which has a byte compiler and a VM interpreter.  Bart 
has been talking about LuaJIT - a JIT compiler implementation of Lua.  I 
haven't looked at the details of LuaJIT, but I expect it to be a great 
deal more fussy about the platforms it runs on.

I used Lua on a couple of embedded platforms, a long time ago.  One was 
a DSP with a rather complicated arrangement of memory spaces, but Lua 
worked on it.  (I can't remember off-hand if the DSP had 16-bit or 8-bit 
chars.)

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#122848

Frombartc <bc@freeuk.com>
Date2017-11-17 16:02 +0000
Message-ID<5KDPB.15472$Yq.1128@fx44.am4>
In reply to#122833
On 17/11/2017 15:26, David Brown wrote:
> On 17/11/17 11:38, bartc wrote:
>> On 17/11/2017 08:44, David Brown wrote:

> I wish you would not keep misrepresenting what I write.  C with good
> tools is a perfectly good language.  The shite you use and call "most
> compilers" is /your/ problem.

You're talking about compilers such as Pelles C, lccwin and DMC (written 
by the guy who invented D).

Small, nippy, lightweight compilers with small footprints, and with 
genuinely easy, self-contained installations.

I'm sure the authors would appreciate your comments.

> Everyone other programmer and his dog is
> capable of installing gcc, clang, and MSVC on Windows and using decent
> tools.

My compiler needs no installation other than downloading one file. 
/THAT/ is simple. Those three compilers in particular are a joke when it 
comes to installation.

> When you actually do C programming - for a job, or for a serious hobby -
> perhaps someone will take your opinions seriously.

I've done enough C programming. The thing about C is that it is 
everywhere, tools for it are everywhere, interfaces in it are 
everywhere, and people who can use it are everywhere.

That doesn't mean it's a great language. The reason it's successful is 
the lack of viable, mainstream alternatives.

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#122851

FromThiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com>
Date2017-11-17 08:12 -0800
Message-ID<95ec51ac-7f41-47f6-b7d1-044168c49f0e@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#122848
On Friday, November 17, 2017 at 2:02:19 PM UTC-2, Bart wrote:
..
> My compiler needs no installation other than downloading one file. 
> /THAT/ is simple. Those three compilers in particular are a joke when it 
> comes to installation.

I agree. I use VC++. It takes many seconds to open as well. 

...
> That doesn't mean it's a great language. The reason it's successful is 
> the lack of viable, mainstream alternatives.

The alternatives are trying to replace C++ not C. Like Rust, Go.
Others are trying to replace java like kotlin. C++ and C# are 
trying to replace themselfs.

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#122857

Fromscott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
Date2017-11-17 16:44 +0000
Message-ID<5mEPB.5063$%K.4809@fx22.iad>
In reply to#122848
bartc <bc@freeuk.com> writes:
>On 17/11/2017 15:26, David Brown wrote:
>> On 17/11/17 11:38, bartc wrote:
>>> On 17/11/2017 08:44, David Brown wrote:
>
>> I wish you would not keep misrepresenting what I write.  C with good
>> tools is a perfectly good language.  The shite you use and call "most
>> compilers" is /your/ problem.
>
>You're talking about compilers such as Pelles C, lccwin and DMC (written 
>by the guy who invented D).
>
>Small, nippy, lightweight compilers with small footprints, and with 
>genuinely easy, self-contained installations.

Are any of them actually used in the real programming world to do
real work?

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#122860

FromDavid Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Date2017-11-17 17:53 +0100
Message-ID<oun46q$l48$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#122848
On 17/11/17 17:02, bartc wrote:
> On 17/11/2017 15:26, David Brown wrote:
>> On 17/11/17 11:38, bartc wrote:
>>> On 17/11/2017 08:44, David Brown wrote:
> 
>> I wish you would not keep misrepresenting what I write.  C with good
>> tools is a perfectly good language.  The shite you use and call "most
>> compilers" is /your/ problem.
> 
> You're talking about compilers such as Pelles C, lccwin and DMC (written
> by the guy who invented D).

Yes - small little limited tools written by one or two people for
specific purposes.  They may be great for those purposes, but they are
not mainstream compilers, nor are they known for accuracy,
optimisations, or standards support.

Jacob's lccwin, for example, is aimed at being easy to use, easy to
install, well-supported, usable as a library, and having extensions that
he (and presumably others) find helpful.  It is not aimed at generating
highly optimised code, or doing a lot of static analysis, or being
portable, or tightly supporting C standards.

And none of these tools are popular or mainstream.  If you draw a
barchart of the number of users of various C compilers, not even DMC
would be visible on the same scale as gcc, MSVC, clang, icc, Borland,
CodeWarrior, etc.

> 
> Small, nippy, lightweight compilers with small footprints, and with
> genuinely easy, self-contained installations.
> 
> I'm sure the authors would appreciate your comments.

It is not a slight on those tools, or the accomplishments of their
authors.  It is a slight on your idea that using them for testing is
"proof" of what you think C is supposed to be, or that their results
have any meaning for "most C compilers".

> 
>> Everyone other programmer and his dog is
>> capable of installing gcc, clang, and MSVC on Windows and using decent
>> tools.
> 
> My compiler needs no installation other than downloading one file.
> /THAT/ is simple. Those three compilers in particular are a joke when it
> comes to installation.
> 

And yet everyone else seems to manage well enough.


>> When you actually do C programming - for a job, or for a serious hobby -
>> perhaps someone will take your opinions seriously.
> 
> I've done enough C programming. The thing about C is that it is
> everywhere, tools for it are everywhere, interfaces in it are
> everywhere, and people who can use it are everywhere.
> 
> That doesn't mean it's a great language. The reason it's successful is
> the lack of viable, mainstream alternatives.
> 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#122867

FromIan Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com>
Date2017-11-18 08:04 +1300
Message-ID<f78q55Fk4dnU5@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#122848
On 11/18/2017 05:02 AM, bartc wrote:
> On 17/11/2017 15:26, David Brown wrote:
> 
>> Everyone other programmer and his dog is
>> capable of installing gcc, clang, and MSVC on Windows and using decent
>> tools.
> 
> My compiler needs no installation other than downloading one file.
> /THAT/ is simple. Those three compilers in particular are a joke when it
> comes to installation.

I crack up laughing when ever I have to type

$pkgin in gcc clang

or

$apt install gcc clang

The real joke is using a platform without proper package management...

-- 
Ian.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#122877

Frombartc <bc@freeuk.com>
Date2017-11-17 19:46 +0000
Message-ID<Q%GPB.15032$1M.10615@fx32.am4>
In reply to#122867
On 17/11/2017 19:04, Ian Collins wrote:
> On 11/18/2017 05:02 AM, bartc wrote:
>> On 17/11/2017 15:26, David Brown wrote:
>>
>>> Everyone other programmer and his dog is
>>> capable of installing gcc, clang, and MSVC on Windows and using decent
>>> tools.
>>
>> My compiler needs no installation other than downloading one file.
>> /THAT/ is simple. Those three compilers in particular are a joke when it
>> comes to installation.
> 
> I crack up laughing when ever I have to type
> 
> $pkgin in gcc clang
> 
> or
> 
> $apt install gcc clang
> 
> The real joke is using a platform without proper package management...


You don't get it.

Something like apt-get just starts a complicated sequence of package 
checking, triggering of updates to everything else, just loads of 
activity that can go on for a very long time. And often it doesn't 
complete because something has gone wrong.

(One such on a Raspberry Pi went on for 90 minutes, and then it hung. By 
which time I'd forgot what problem the install was supposed to solve. 
But even that machine could download one file of a few hundred KB in a 
fraction of a second.)

So being able to trigger such a process in one short command is not a 
substitute for actual simplicity. I can start the process to install 
VS2017 in a couple of clicks too.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#122888

FromIan Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com>
Date2017-11-18 11:12 +1300
Message-ID<f7955kFk4dnU7@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#122877
On 11/18/2017 08:46 AM, bartc wrote:
> On 17/11/2017 19:04, Ian Collins wrote:
>> On 11/18/2017 05:02 AM, bartc wrote:
>>> On 17/11/2017 15:26, David Brown wrote:
>>>
>>>> Everyone other programmer and his dog is
>>>> capable of installing gcc, clang, and MSVC on Windows and using decent
>>>> tools.
>>>
>>> My compiler needs no installation other than downloading one file.
>>> /THAT/ is simple. Those three compilers in particular are a joke when it
>>> comes to installation.
>>
>> I crack up laughing when ever I have to type
>>
>> $pkgin in gcc clang
>>
>> or
>>
>> $apt install gcc clang
>>
>> The real joke is using a platform without proper package management...
> 
> 
> You don't get it.
> 
> Something like apt-get just starts a complicated sequence of package
> checking, triggering of updates to everything else, just loads of
> activity that can go on for a very long time. And often it doesn't
> complete because something has gone wrong.

Moving your mouse starts a complicated sequence of events, clicking 
something, well now...  Do you avoid moving your mouse?  Does clicking 
something fill you with dread?

Package management is pretty simple by comparison, it even gets written 
in scripting languages!  I look after dozens of build machines and I 
have never had any issues with configuring and updating the non-Windows 
ones.

-- 
Ian.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#122892

Frombartc <bc@freeuk.com>
Date2017-11-17 23:00 +0000
Message-ID<hRJPB.22707$Yt.14968@fx36.am4>
In reply to#122888
On 17/11/2017 22:12, Ian Collins wrote:
> On 11/18/2017 08:46 AM, bartc wrote:

>> Something like apt-get just starts a complicated sequence of package
>> checking, triggering of updates to everything else, just loads of
>> activity that can go on for a very long time. And often it doesn't
>> complete because something has gone wrong.
> 
> Moving your mouse starts a complicated sequence of events, clicking 
> something, well now...  Do you avoid moving your mouse?  Does clicking 
> something fill you with dread?

You're deliberately not getting it.

Installing a complicated bit of software involving tens or hundreds of 
MB of download, and hundreds or thousands are files and subdirectories 
has always been error prone in my experience, on both Windows and Linux.

Here's a case in point: I have an old Linux netbook with gcc 4.4. If I do:

  sudo apt-get install gcc

it says it's at the latest version, which is wrong. Instructions on-line 
to do this are all completely different. One says first do:

  sudo apt-get upgrade

which gives me a bunch of messages: '... could not resolve 
old-releases.ubuntu.com'. OK, try the next bit:

  sudo apt-get upgrade gcc

Now it says: "Could not get lock/var/lib/dpkg/lock ....'

Another site talks about installing PPA that includes this lot:

  sudo apt-get install python-software-properties
  sudo add-apt-repository ppa:ubuntu-toolchain-r/test
  sudo apt-get update
  sudo apt-get install gcc-4.8
  sudo update-alternatives --install /usr/bin/gcc gcc /usr/bin/gcc-4.8 50

which I'm not even going to bother with. (If I just do the gcc-4.8 bit, 
it eventually says 'Couldn't find package gcc-4.8')

Yet another talks about building from source and using wget to download 
a .bz2 file. Then using tar to unpack it... Then it says do make install 
(with the comment: 'this will take some time... go and bake some cakes').

This all seems a long way from your one line instant install that is 
guaranteed to work effortlessly.

Funnily enough however, if I copy one of MY one-file compilers on to it, 
and COMPILE IT FROM SOURCE, it works flawlessly! (Well, apart from it 
generating code for win64 on an arm32.)

But if you lot want to tie yourself up in knots with these things, then 
it's up to you.

-- 
bart

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#122894

FromIan Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com>
Date2017-11-18 12:14 +1300
Message-ID<f798q8Fk4dnU9@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#122892
On 11/18/2017 12:00 PM, bartc wrote:
> On 17/11/2017 22:12, Ian Collins wrote:
>> On 11/18/2017 08:46 AM, bartc wrote:
> 
>>> Something like apt-get just starts a complicated sequence of package
>>> checking, triggering of updates to everything else, just loads of
>>> activity that can go on for a very long time. And often it doesn't
>>> complete because something has gone wrong.
>>
>> Moving your mouse starts a complicated sequence of events, clicking
>> something, well now...  Do you avoid moving your mouse?  Does clicking
>> something fill you with dread?
> 
> You're deliberately not getting it.
> 
> Installing a complicated bit of software involving tens or hundreds of
> MB of download, and hundreds or thousands are files and subdirectories
> has always been error prone in my experience, on both Windows and Linux.

Life appears to be error prone in your experience.

> Here's a case in point: I have an old Linux netbook with gcc 4.4. If I do:
> 
>    sudo apt-get install gcc
> 
> it says it's at the latest version, which is wrong. Instructions on-line
> to do this are all completely different. One says first do:
> 
>    sudo apt-get upgrade
> 
> which gives me a bunch of messages: '... could not resolve
> old-releases.ubuntu.com'. OK, try the next bit:

So rather than fixing step one, you blindly stagger on to step two?

Have you ever stopped to wonder how the (tens of) thousands of other 
programmers manage with C, their tools and life in general without the 
problems you encounter?

> Funnily enough however, if I copy one of MY one-file compilers on to it,
> and COMPILE IT FROM SOURCE, it works flawlessly! (Well, apart from it
> generating code for win64 on an arm32.)

Do you do the same for your browser?  Your media player?  Your editors? 
Your...

-- 
Ian.

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#122895

Frombartc <bc@freeuk.com>
Date2017-11-17 23:35 +0000
Message-ID<AmKPB.19006$Jw1.1360@fx17.am4>
In reply to#122894
On 17/11/2017 23:14, Ian Collins wrote:
> On 11/18/2017 12:00 PM, bartc wrote:

>> which gives me a bunch of messages: '... could not resolve
>> old-releases.ubuntu.com'. OK, try the next bit:
> 
> So rather than fixing step one,

Fixing it, how? I haven't a clue what it's trying to do, or where to 
start. I did try and do that years ago and one thing always led to 
another so that you wasted huge amounts of time tinkering away with 
Linux and forgetting what you were trying to do in the first place.

> you blindly stagger on to step two?

Because even I can tell the first step to just to make sure that 
everything is up to date. And if it isn't, I'm sure I will find out, but 
that's not the message I got.

> Have you ever stopped to wonder how the (tens of) thousands of other 
> programmers manage with C, their tools and life in general without the 
> problems you encounter?

They obviously like tinkering with Linux. I don't and I'm not interested.

But since you're the expert, you tell ME what I should do with this 
machine (apparently Ubuntu 10.04 on ARM32) to upgrade its gcc. Not that 
I'm that bothered, but I wanted to see if the process really was as 
straightforward as you suggested. It wasn't.

>> Funnily enough however, if I copy one of MY one-file compilers on to it,
>> and COMPILE IT FROM SOURCE, it works flawlessly! (Well, apart from it
>> generating code for win64 on an arm32.)
> 
> Do you do the same for your browser?  Your media player?  Your editors?

Generally things work if they are self-installing executables or MSIs.

But not always (try running The Sims 4 which the kids like to play. What 
a ******* nightmare trying to coax that thing to work every time, and it 
likes to update itself every couple of days at 3GB a time. However, at 
least that is an understandably big application. But a mere C compiler 
... ?)


-- 
bartc

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#122897

FromIan Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com>
Date2017-11-18 13:27 +1300
Message-ID<f79d41Fk4dnU10@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#122895
On 11/18/2017 12:35 PM, bartc wrote:
> On 17/11/2017 23:14, Ian Collins wrote:
>> On 11/18/2017 12:00 PM, bartc wrote:
> 
>> Have you ever stopped to wonder how the (tens of) thousands of other
>> programmers manage with C, their tools and life in general without the
>> problems you encounter?
> 
> They obviously like tinkering with Linux. I don't and I'm not interested.

I don't like tinkering with Linux, I don't even particularly like it.  I 
much preferred my old system until oracle buggered it up.  I use Linux 
because my clients use it and when working on an embedded Linux project, 
using anything else is futile.

> But since you're the expert, you tell ME what I should do with this
> machine (apparently Ubuntu 10.04 on ARM32) to upgrade its gcc. Not that
> I'm that bothered, but I wanted to see if the process really was as
> straightforward as you suggested. It wasn't.

Ubuntu 10.04 (even 10.04 LTS) went out of support two and a half years 
ago...

>>> Funnily enough however, if I copy one of MY one-file compilers on to it,
>>> and COMPILE IT FROM SOURCE, it works flawlessly! (Well, apart from it
>>> generating code for win64 on an arm32.)
>>
>> Do you do the same for your browser?  Your media player?  Your editors?
> 
> Generally things work if they are self-installing executables or MSIs.

Even those may install thousands of files.

> But not always (try running The Sims 4 which the kids like to play. What
> a ******* nightmare trying to coax that thing to work every time, and it
> likes to update itself every couple of days at 3GB a time. However, at
> least that is an understandably big application. But a mere C compiler
> .... ?)

How well do your single file C compiler work on a bare system without 
any libraries or headers installed?  Could I install Windows 10 home 
edition or whatever to basic version is called, download your single 
file compiler an use it?  Or if Windows 10 is too bloated how about an 
Ubuntu container image (about 150MB), would it work on that?

-- 
Ian.

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#122902

Frombartc <bc@freeuk.com>
Date2017-11-18 01:57 +0000
Message-ID<erMPB.15441$1M.12660@fx32.am4>
In reply to#122897
On 18/11/2017 00:27, Ian Collins wrote:
> On 11/18/2017 12:35 PM, bartc wrote:

> How well do your single file C compiler work on a bare system without 
> any libraries or headers installed?  Could I install Windows 10 home 
> edition or whatever to basic version is called, download your single 
> file compiler an use it?  Or if Windows 10 is too bloated how about an 
> Ubuntu container image (about 150MB), would it work on that?

In its current form, the one-file C source compiles to one .exe file 
(needing an existing C compiler; if not available then you download the 
prebuilt .exe).

It includes headers inside the .exe (a sparse selection of around 35), 
and will translate suitable .c files to x64 .asm files in Nasm format 
for Win64 ABI.

To run code, it further needs Nasm.exe, a linker, and a library 
msvcrt.dll which is part of Windows. (And if using setjmp/longjmp, one 
further .asm file.) Oh, and the current code is terrible.

The current executable size is 0.25MB.

--------------------------------------

I will update it, probably early in 2018, to remove the nasm.exe 
dependency, and to replace the code generator. Then it will just need a 
linker and msvcrt.dll.

I'm also thinking of making it run certain [single file] programs from 
source without needing a linker. (Such as, for example, itself, as there 
is an interesting test I'd like to do).

Then the only dependency will be itself, the .c file you want to run and 
msvcrt.dll (that last could be partly eliminated, but is not necessary 
because every Windows will have a copy).

It won't run on Linux as it is except as a cross-compiler (although that 
last version would be easiest to adapt to do so).


-- 
bartc

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#122951

FromIan Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com>
Date2017-11-19 12:09 +1300
Message-ID<f7bssnFnms3U4@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#122902
On 11/18/2017 02:57 PM, bartc wrote:
> On 18/11/2017 00:27, Ian Collins wrote:
>> On 11/18/2017 12:35 PM, bartc wrote:
> 
>> How well do your single file C compiler work on a bare system without
>> any libraries or headers installed?  Could I install Windows 10 home
>> edition or whatever to basic version is called, download your single
>> file compiler an use it?  Or if Windows 10 is too bloated how about an
>> Ubuntu container image (about 150MB), would it work on that?
> 
> In its current form, the one-file C source compiles to one .exe file
> (needing an existing C compiler; if not available then you download the
> prebuilt .exe).
> 
> It includes headers inside the .exe (a sparse selection of around 35),
> and will translate suitable .c files to x64 .asm files in Nasm format
> for Win64 ABI.
> 
> To run code, it further needs Nasm.exe, a linker, and a library
> msvcrt.dll which is part of Windows. (And if using setjmp/longjmp, one
> further .asm file.) Oh, and the current code is terrible.

What if you want a 32bit executable?

-- 
Ian.

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#122953

Frombartc <bc@freeuk.com>
Date2017-11-18 23:39 +0000
Message-ID<Xv3QB.18762$1M.13826@fx32.am4>
In reply to#122951
On 18/11/2017 23:09, Ian Collins wrote:
> On 11/18/2017 02:57 PM, bartc wrote:

>> To run code, it further needs Nasm.exe, a linker, and a library
>> msvcrt.dll which is part of Windows. (And if using setjmp/longjmp, one
>> further .asm file.) Oh, and the current code is terrible.
> 
> What if you want a 32bit executable?

Do you have such a machine? Because I know someone who will buy it off 
you! But it needs to be a modern machine that runs Windows.

(I have a client with a 16-bit Windows app that no longer works on 
64-bit Windows. Their old 32-bit machine is about to die.)

No, my compiler for C targets only x64. If there was really a need for 
x86, I'd have to write an x86 code generator. I guess you'd then say, 
what about ARM? Or X or Y. (I've targetted x86 before; more interesting 
and challenging now would be ARM.)

(I don't code directly in C. My main language targets x64, C32 or C64. 
For a 32-bit target, I would generate C32 code and compile it with 
someone else's 32-bit C compiler. There are several available.)


-- 
bartc

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#122955

FromIan Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com>
Date2017-11-19 13:30 +1300
Message-ID<f7c1liFnms3U5@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#122953
On 11/19/2017 12:39 PM, bartc wrote:
> On 18/11/2017 23:09, Ian Collins wrote:
>> On 11/18/2017 02:57 PM, bartc wrote:
> 
>>> To run code, it further needs Nasm.exe, a linker, and a library
>>> msvcrt.dll which is part of Windows. (And if using setjmp/longjmp, one
>>> further .asm file.) Oh, and the current code is terrible.
>>
>> What if you want a 32bit executable?
> 
> Do you have such a machine? Because I know someone who will buy it off
> you! But it needs to be a modern machine that runs Windows.

The machine is irrelevant.  If the application isn't 64 bit safe (partly 
by design in the case of the one I'm currently working with), it has to 
be built 32 bit.  The same applies for applications that perform better 
as 32 bit.

> (I have a client with a 16-bit Windows app that no longer works on
> 64-bit Windows. Their old 32-bit machine is about to die.)
> 
> No, my compiler for C targets only x64. If there was really a need for
> x86, I'd have to write an x86 code generator. I guess you'd then say,
> what about ARM? Or X or Y. (I've targetted x86 before; more interesting
> and challenging now would be ARM.)
> 
> (I don't code directly in C. My main language targets x64, C32 or C64.
> For a 32-bit target, I would generate C32 code and compile it with
> someone else's 32-bit C compiler. There are several available.)

Well there you go, simple solution for a trivial use case.  As soon as 
the scope broadens and you need to consider dependencies, the simple 
solution won't do the job.

-- 
Ian.

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#122960

Frombartc <bc@freeuk.com>
Date2017-11-19 01:17 +0000
Message-ID<NY4QB.45095$DI.1653@fx35.am4>
In reply to#122955
On 19/11/2017 00:30, Ian Collins wrote:
> On 11/19/2017 12:39 PM, bartc wrote:

>> (I don't code directly in C. My main language targets x64, C32 or C64.
>> For a 32-bit target, I would generate C32 code and compile it with
>> someone else's 32-bit C compiler. There are several available.)
> 
> Well there you go, simple solution for a trivial use case.  As soon as 
> the scope broadens and you need to consider dependencies, the simple 
> solution won't do the job.

I really don't know what you're on about mate.

I've developed code generators for 8, 16 and 32-bit targets (forget my 
first one for 36 bits).

Now I tend to do them for 64 bits, because I've done all the rest, and 
because any machine I'm likely to get my hands on is going to be 64-bit.

I'm not doing this as a job or as business, but for pleasure. But 
someone feels the need to piss on that by saying, Ah but what about 
32-bit targets. Well, it really doesn't matter what my compilers are 
capable of; you're always going to find one shortcoming or another.

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