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Groups > comp.lang.c > #380602 > unrolled thread

iso646.h

Started byLawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
First post2024-01-22 01:51 +0000
Last post2024-01-25 15:02 +0100
Articles 20 on this page of 649 — 20 participants

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  iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-22 01:51 +0000
    Re: iso646.h Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2024-01-22 02:00 +0000
    Re: iso646.h James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2024-01-21 21:48 -0500
      Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-22 05:23 +0000
    Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-22 09:30 +0100
      Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-22 16:24 +0000
        Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-22 20:34 +0000
          Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-22 13:22 -0800
            Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-22 22:07 +0000
              Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-22 14:56 -0800
                Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-22 23:44 +0000
                  Re: iso646.h Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-23 00:10 +0000
      Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-22 20:34 +0000
        Re: iso646.h Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-22 21:32 +0000
        Re: iso646.h Blue-Maned_Hawk <bluemanedhawk@invalid.invalid> - 2024-01-22 23:08 +0000
          Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-22 23:37 +0000
            Re: iso646.h Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-23 00:12 +0000
            Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-23 06:54 +0100
              Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-24 06:05 +0000
                Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-24 09:34 +0100
                Re: iso646.h Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-24 15:43 +0000
        Re: iso646.h Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-01-22 20:23 -0800
        Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-23 06:47 +0100
          Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-23 21:50 +0000
            Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-24 08:59 +0100
        Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-23 09:24 +0100
          Re: iso646.h Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-23 21:30 +0000
            Re: iso646.h bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-23 22:03 +0000
            Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-24 08:53 +0100
              Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-24 07:58 -0800
                Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-24 20:11 +0000
                  Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-24 12:23 -0800
                    Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-24 21:55 +0100
                      Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-25 07:22 +0100
                  Re: iso646.h Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2024-01-24 20:25 +0000
                    Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-25 00:17 +0000
                      Re: iso646.h Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2024-01-25 00:50 +0000
                      Re: iso646.h Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-25 01:23 +0000
                        Re: iso646.h "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-01-24 18:30 -0800
                      Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-25 01:33 +0000
                  Re: iso646.h Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-24 21:20 +0000
              Re: iso646.h Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-24 16:56 +0000
                Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-24 18:07 +0100
                Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-24 18:12 +0100
                  Re: iso646.h Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-24 21:08 +0000
            Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-24 10:03 +0100
        Re: iso646.h bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-23 11:54 +0000
        Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-23 16:32 +0000
          Re: iso646.h Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2024-01-23 17:21 +0000
            Re: iso646.h Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-23 21:49 +0000
            Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-23 21:52 +0000
              Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-23 14:51 -0800
                Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-23 23:33 +0000
                  Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-23 16:16 -0800
                    Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-24 00:39 +0000
                    Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-24 11:53 +0000
                  Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-24 09:15 +0100
              Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-24 09:02 +0100
            C/CPP macro conventions (was Re: iso646.h) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-24 08:25 +0100
              Re: C/CPP macro conventions (was Re: iso646.h) Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-24 08:25 +0000
                Re: C/CPP macro conventions (was Re: iso646.h) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-24 10:09 +0100
                Re: C/CPP macro conventions (was Re: iso646.h) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-24 10:13 +0100
                Re: C/CPP macro conventions (was Re: iso646.h) Blue-Maned_Hawk <bluemanedhawk@invalid.invalid> - 2024-01-25 23:05 +0000
          Re: iso646.h bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-23 18:34 +0000
            Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-23 18:52 +0000
              Re: iso646.h James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2024-01-23 14:23 -0500
                Re: iso646.h kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2024-01-23 20:32 +0000
                  Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-23 21:52 +0000
                    Re: iso646.h Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-23 22:09 +0000
                      Re: iso646.h kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2024-01-23 22:37 +0000
                        Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-24 09:10 +0100
                          Re: iso646.h James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2024-01-24 12:24 -0500
                            Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-24 18:38 +0100
                              Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-24 18:42 +0100
                              Re: iso646.h kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2024-01-24 17:49 +0000
                                Re: iso646.h kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2024-01-24 18:40 +0000
                                  Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-24 20:15 +0000
                                    Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-24 22:01 +0100
                              Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-24 11:52 -0800
                                Re: iso646.h kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2024-01-24 20:03 +0000
                            Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-24 20:14 +0000
                            Re: iso646.h Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-24 21:11 +0000
                              Re: iso646.h James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2024-01-25 00:01 -0500
                                Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-25 13:43 +0100
                                  Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-25 14:19 +0100
                                    Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-25 15:20 +0100
                                      Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-25 16:40 +0100
                                  Re: iso646.h bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-25 13:43 +0000
                                    Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-25 16:11 +0100
                                Re: iso646.h Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-02-03 11:35 -0800
                      Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-24 09:09 +0100
                  Unix shell conditionals (was Re: iso646.h) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-24 08:38 +0100
                Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-23 21:28 +0000
                  Re: iso646.h Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-23 22:00 +0000
                    Re: iso646.h bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-23 22:33 +0000
                      Re: iso646.h Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-23 23:46 +0000
                  Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-23 14:49 -0800
                  Re: iso646.h James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2024-01-23 19:45 -0500
                    Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-24 09:28 +0100
            Python (Re: iso646.h) kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2024-01-23 19:32 +0000
              Re: Python (Re: iso646.h) bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-23 19:59 +0000
                Re: Python (Re: iso646.h) kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2024-01-23 20:18 +0000
                  Re: Python (Re: iso646.h) Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2024-01-24 07:49 -0700
                    Re: Python (Re: iso646.h) kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2024-01-24 15:07 +0000
                    Re: Python (Re: iso646.h) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2024-01-24 15:17 +0000
                      Re: Python (Re: iso646.h) bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-24 15:46 +0000
                        Re: Python (Re: iso646.h) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2024-01-24 16:27 +0000
                          Re: Python (Re: iso646.h) bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-24 19:55 +0000
                            Re: Python (Re: iso646.h) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2024-01-24 20:57 +0000
                        Re: Python (Re: iso646.h) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-24 20:17 +0000
                          Re: Python (Re: iso646.h) bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-25 12:13 +0000
                            Re: Python (Re: iso646.h) kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2024-01-25 14:57 +0000
                              Re: Python (Re: iso646.h) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-25 16:17 +0100
                              Re: Python (Re: iso646.h) bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-25 15:52 +0000
                                Re: Python (Re: iso646.h) kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2024-01-25 16:14 +0000
                                Re: Python (Re: iso646.h) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-25 11:27 -0800
                            Re: Python (Re: iso646.h) Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-25 18:06 +0000
                              Re: Python (Re: iso646.h) bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-25 19:35 +0000
                    Re: Python (Re: iso646.h) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-24 15:56 +0000
              Re: Python (Re: iso646.h) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-23 12:09 -0800
                Re: Python (Re: iso646.h) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-23 22:00 +0000
                  Re: Python (Re: iso646.h) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2024-01-27 22:12 +0000
                    Re: Python (Re: iso646.h) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-28 00:29 +0000
              Re: Python (Re: iso646.h) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-23 21:55 +0000
                Re: Python (Re: iso646.h) kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2024-01-23 22:47 +0000
                  Re: Python (Re: iso646.h) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-23 15:35 -0800
                    Re: Python (Re: iso646.h) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-24 00:41 +0000
                      Re: Python (Re: iso646.h) Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-24 03:13 +0000
                  Re: Python (Re: iso646.h) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-23 23:37 +0000
                    Re: Python (Re: iso646.h) Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-01-26 05:48 -0800
                  Re: Python (Re: iso646.h) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-23 23:51 +0000
                    Re: Python (Re: iso646.h) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-01-23 16:35 -0800
                      Re: Python (Re: iso646.h) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-01-23 16:40 -0800
                  Re: Python (Re: iso646.h) bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-24 00:06 +0000
                    Re: Python (Re: iso646.h) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-24 12:37 +0100
                  Re: Python (Re: iso646.h) Blue-Maned_Hawk <bluemanedhawk@invalid.invalid> - 2024-01-25 22:55 +0000
              Re: Python (Re: iso646.h) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2024-01-24 13:30 +0000
            Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-23 12:13 -0800
              Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-23 22:01 +0000
                Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-23 22:45 +0000
                  Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-23 23:39 +0000
                Re: iso646.h kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2024-01-23 22:54 +0000
                Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-23 15:10 -0800
                  Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-23 23:40 +0000
                    Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-23 16:27 -0800
                      Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-24 00:47 +0000
                        Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-23 17:32 -0800
                          Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-24 02:42 +0000
                        Re: iso646.h James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2024-01-23 23:56 -0500
                          Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-24 05:24 +0000
                            Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-23 21:43 -0800
                              Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-24 06:35 +0000
                                Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-24 14:14 +0100
                                  Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-24 20:19 +0000
                                Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-24 07:34 -0800
                      Re: iso646.h James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2024-01-23 23:26 -0500
                        Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-23 20:53 -0800
                  Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-24 09:41 +0100
                    Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-24 08:15 -0800
                    Re: iso646.h Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-24 19:32 +0000
              Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-24 09:06 +0100
                Re: iso646.h Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2024-01-24 14:17 +0000
                  Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-24 08:30 -0800
                    Re: iso646.h Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-24 21:00 +0000
                      Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-24 22:13 +0000
                        Re: COBOL (was Re: iso646.h) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-25 00:44 +0000
                          Re: COBOL (was Re: iso646.h) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-25 01:37 +0000
                            Re: COBOL (was Re: iso646.h) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2024-01-25 02:20 +0000
                              Re: COBOL (was Re: iso646.h) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-01-24 18:23 -0800
                              Re: COBOL (was Re: iso646.h) bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-25 11:58 +0000
                            Re: COBOL (was Re: iso646.h) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-25 02:49 +0000
                              Re: COBOL (was Re: iso646.h) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-24 19:09 -0800
                  Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-24 17:44 +0100
                    Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-24 17:27 +0000
                  Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-24 20:21 +0000
                    Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-24 12:26 -0800
                    Re: iso646.h Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2024-01-24 20:31 +0000
                      Re: COBOL (was Re: iso646.h) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-25 00:53 +0000
                        Re: COBOL (was Re: iso646.h) Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-25 01:24 +0000
                          Re: COBOL (was Re: iso646.h) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-01-24 18:21 -0800
                    Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-24 22:09 +0000
                  Re: iso646.h Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-24 23:20 +0000
                    Re: iso646.h "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-01-24 15:56 -0800
            Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-24 12:20 +0000
              Re: iso646.h bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-24 13:00 +0000
              Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-24 14:22 +0100
              Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-24 14:54 +0100
                Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-24 08:27 -0800
                  Re: iso646.h Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-24 20:50 +0000
                    Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-25 14:01 +0100
                      Re: iso646.h bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-25 13:53 +0000
                        Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-25 16:48 +0100
                      Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-25 09:57 -0800
                        Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-25 21:07 +0100
                          Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-25 20:18 +0000
                            Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-26 15:59 +0100
                              Re: Compose Key (was Re: iso646.h) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-26 21:22 +0000
                                Re: Compose Key (was Re: iso646.h) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-27 16:17 +0100
                                  Re: Compose Key (was Re: iso646.h) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-27 21:28 +0000
                                  Re: Compose Key (was Re: iso646.h) Blue-Maned_Hawk <bluemanedhawk@invalid.invalid> - 2024-01-27 22:38 +0000
                        Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-25 20:08 +0000
                          Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-25 20:30 +0000
                          Re: iso646.h Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-25 21:13 +0000
                      Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-25 20:06 +0000
                        Re: iso646.h Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-25 21:04 +0000
                        Re: iso646.h bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-25 21:16 +0000
                          Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-25 22:01 +0000
                            Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-26 02:11 +0100
                              Re: iso646.h Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-26 01:19 +0000
                        Operators (Algol 68) (was Re: iso646.h) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-26 02:08 +0100
                  Re: iso646.h bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-25 00:52 +0000
                    Re: iso646.h "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-01-24 17:07 -0800
                  Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-25 07:48 +0100
                    Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-25 14:07 +0100
                      Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-25 14:35 +0100
                        Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-25 16:53 +0100
                          Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-25 17:11 +0100
                            Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-25 21:11 +0100
                              Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-26 02:21 +0100
                                Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-26 17:01 +0100
                                  Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-26 18:31 +0100
                                    Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-26 19:59 +0100
                                      Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-26 12:27 -0800
                                        Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-26 22:01 +0100
                                      Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-26 22:30 +0100
                                        Re: iso646.h James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2024-01-26 20:22 -0500
                                        Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-27 16:43 +0100
                                          Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-28 20:14 +0100
                                            Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-29 14:09 +0100
                                    Re: iso646.h James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2024-01-26 20:10 -0500
                                      Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-27 16:44 +0100
                                        Re: Functional Programming (was Re: iso646.h) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-27 20:49 +0000
                                          Re: Functional Programming (was Re: iso646.h) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-28 00:22 +0000
                                            Re: Functional Programming (was Re: iso646.h) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-28 01:18 +0000
                                              Re: Functional Programming (was Re: iso646.h) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-28 02:06 +0000
                                          Re: Functional Programming (was Re: iso646.h) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-28 12:35 +0100
                                            Re: Functional Programming (was Re: iso646.h) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-28 20:40 +0000
                                              Re: Functional Programming (was Re: iso646.h) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-29 09:52 +0100
                                                Re: Functional Programming (was Re: iso646.h) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-02-02 05:13 +0000
                                                  Re: Functional Programming (was Re: iso646.h) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-02-02 09:21 +0100
                                        Re: iso646.h James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2024-01-28 01:31 -0500
                                          Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-28 12:40 +0100
                      Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-26 21:16 +0000
                        Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-26 22:46 +0100
                          Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-26 22:41 +0000
                            Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-26 15:41 -0800
                              Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-26 23:51 +0000
                                Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-27 01:17 +0100
                                  Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-27 16:25 +0000
                                    Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-28 18:46 +0100
                          Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-26 23:52 +0000
                            Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-27 01:27 +0100
                              Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-27 00:38 +0000
                                Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-27 11:09 +0100
                                  Re: Localization (was Re: iso646.h) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-27 20:58 +0000
                                    Re: Localization (was Re: iso646.h) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-28 15:57 +0100
                                Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-27 16:58 +0100
                                  Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-27 17:26 +0000
                                    Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-27 18:53 +0100
                                      Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-27 19:39 +0000
                                      Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-27 17:31 -0800
                                        Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-28 12:50 +0100
                                    Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-27 20:59 +0000
                                      Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-27 17:34 -0800
                                        Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-28 01:50 +0000
                                          Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-27 17:53 -0800
                                        Re: iso646.h "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-01-27 18:47 -0800
                                      Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-28 12:53 +0100
                                        Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-28 20:43 +0000
                                          Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-28 14:49 -0800
                                            Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-29 00:03 +0000
                                              Re: iso646.h bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-29 01:24 +0000
                                              Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-28 17:48 -0800
                                                Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-29 02:17 +0000
                                                  Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-29 17:06 +0100
                                              Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-29 17:05 +0100
                                                Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-29 23:56 +0000
                                          Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-29 13:35 +0100
                                            Re: iso646.h bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-29 16:23 +0000
                                              Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-29 18:40 +0100
                                Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-27 16:33 -0800
                              Re: iso646.h bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-27 00:42 +0000
                                Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-27 03:16 +0000
                              Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-27 17:24 +0000
                                Re: Java (was Re: iso646.h) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-27 21:04 +0000
                                  [OT] Re: Java (was Re: iso646.h) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-28 17:42 +0100
                                    Re: [OT] Re: Java (was Re: iso646.h) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-28 20:44 +0000
                                [OT] Usefulness of OO/C++/features (was Re: iso646.h) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-28 17:18 +0100
                            Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-27 03:11 +0000
                          Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-27 03:24 +0000
                            Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-27 11:43 +0100
                              Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-27 11:13 +0000
                                Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-27 12:53 +0100
                                  Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-27 20:17 +0000
                                    Re: iso646.h Richard Harnden <richard.nospam@gmail.invalid> - 2024-01-27 21:40 +0000
                                      Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-28 00:31 +0000
                                    Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-28 18:22 +0100
                                      Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-28 22:55 +0000
                                      Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-28 15:00 -0800
                                        Re: iso646.h James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2024-01-29 12:09 -0500
                                        Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-29 19:33 +0100
                                          Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-29 12:48 -0800
                                          Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-29 23:51 +0000
                                        Re: iso646.h James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2024-01-29 12:10 -0500
                                          Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-29 12:53 -0800
                                Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-27 21:06 +0000
                                  Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-28 00:35 +0000
                                    Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-28 01:22 +0000
                                    Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-27 17:26 -0800
                                      Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-28 01:59 +0000
                                        Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-28 13:00 +0100
                                          Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-28 16:09 +0000
                                            Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-28 18:06 +0100
                                            Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-28 19:24 +0100
                                              Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-28 19:49 +0000
                                                Re: Binary Pipelines (was Re: iso646.h) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-28 20:48 +0000
                                                Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-28 14:54 -0800
                                                Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-29 17:18 +0100
                                                  Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-29 18:47 +0000
                                                    Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-29 21:06 +0100
                                                    Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-29 13:00 -0800
                                                      Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-30 18:29 +0000
                                                        Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-30 20:23 +0100
                                                        Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-30 12:06 -0800
                                                          Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-30 21:04 +0000
                                                            Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-31 06:04 +0000
                                                              Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-31 08:59 +0100
                                                                Re: iso646.h Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-01-31 12:53 +0200
                                                                  Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-31 14:21 +0100
                                                            Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-31 14:02 +0100
                                                            Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-31 14:05 +0100
                                                              Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-31 14:35 +0100
                                                                Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-02-01 11:30 +0100
                                                                  Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-02-01 18:35 +0100
                                                                    Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-02-01 22:41 +0100
                                                                      Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-02-02 01:59 +0100
                                                    Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-29 23:55 +0000
                                                Re: iso646.h Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-01-29 12:10 -0800
                                                  Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-29 22:14 +0000
                                                    Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-29 22:24 +0000
                                                    Re: iso646.h Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-01-29 23:27 -0800
                                                      Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-30 09:13 +0000
                                                        Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-30 14:03 +0100
                                                          Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-30 15:49 +0000
                                                            Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-30 16:06 +0000
                                                              Re: iso646.h Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2024-01-30 16:12 +0000
                                                              Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-30 16:33 +0000
                                                                Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-30 16:54 +0000
                                                                Re: iso646.h Richard Harnden <richard.nospam@gmail.invalid> - 2024-01-30 19:39 +0000
                                                                  Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-31 06:12 +0000
                                                                    Re: iso646.h James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2024-01-31 01:39 -0500
                                                                    Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-31 15:20 +0000
                                                                  Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-31 14:47 +0100
                                                                    Re: iso646.h Richard Harnden <richard.nospam@gmail.invalid> - 2024-01-31 19:43 +0000
                                                                      Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-31 12:14 -0800
                                                                        Re: iso646.h Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-31 20:25 +0000
                                                                          Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-31 13:26 -0800
                                                                            Re: iso646.h Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-02-01 01:23 +0000
                                                                              Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-02-01 01:34 +0000
                                                                                Re: iso646.h Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-02-01 16:28 +0000
                                                                        Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-31 23:25 +0000
                                                                          Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-31 15:34 -0800
                                                                            Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-02-01 01:58 +0000
                                                                              Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-31 18:27 -0800
                                                                              Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-02-01 14:52 +0000
                                                                                Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-02-01 16:01 +0000
                                                                          Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-02-02 01:13 +0000
                                                                            Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-02-02 02:15 +0000
                                                                              Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-02-02 05:08 +0000
                                                                                Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-02-02 15:28 +0000
                                                                            Re: iso646.h Richard Harnden <richard.nospam@gmail.invalid> - 2024-02-02 16:50 +0000
                                                                        Re: iso646.h James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2024-02-01 00:52 -0500
                                                                      Re: iso646.h James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2024-02-01 00:45 -0500
                                                            Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-30 17:25 +0100
                                                              Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-30 16:55 +0000
                                                                Creation era of stdin, stdout, stderr (was Re: iso646.h) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-30 19:06 +0100
                                                                Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-30 20:29 +0100
                                                                  Re: iso646.h bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-30 20:24 +0000
                                                                    Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-30 12:55 -0800
                                                                  Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-30 21:42 +0000
                                                                  Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-31 06:10 +0000
                                                                    Re: iso646.h dave_thompson_2@comcast.net - 2024-02-26 04:20 -0500
                                                              Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-30 17:34 +0000
                                                                Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-30 18:43 +0000
                                                                  Re: iso646.h Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-30 20:54 +0000
                                                              Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-31 06:07 +0000
                                                                Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-31 14:45 +0100
                                                                  Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-31 15:20 +0000
                                                                  Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-31 08:38 -0800
                                                                    Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-31 19:05 +0100
                                                                  Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-02-02 00:08 +0000
                                                                    Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-02-02 02:10 +0100
                                                                    Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-02-02 02:12 +0000
                                                                      Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-02-02 03:42 +0100
                                                                        Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-02-02 03:47 +0000
                                                                          Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-02-01 20:02 -0800
                                                              Re: iso646.h dave_thompson_2@comcast.net - 2024-02-26 04:18 -0500
                                                        Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-30 15:00 +0000
                                                          Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-30 15:21 +0000
                                                            Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-30 15:53 +0000
                                                            Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-31 06:03 +0000
                                                              Re: iso646.h Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-01-31 15:28 +0200
                                                          Re: iso646.h bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-30 15:30 +0000
                                                            Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-30 15:54 +0000
                                                              Re: iso646.h bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-30 16:10 +0000
                                                                Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-30 17:49 +0100
                                                                  Re: iso646.h bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-30 18:22 +0000
                                                                    Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-30 18:44 +0000
                                                                    Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-30 20:46 +0100
                                                                      Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-31 12:22 +0100
                                                                        Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-31 14:58 +0100
                                                                          Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-31 15:39 +0100
                                                                  Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-30 18:39 +0000
                                                                    Re: iso646.h Richard Harnden <richard.nospam@gmail.invalid> - 2024-01-30 19:45 +0000
                                                                    Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-30 11:59 -0800
                                                                  Re: iso646.h James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2024-01-30 16:16 -0500
                                                                    Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-31 12:35 +0100
                                                                    Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-31 15:09 +0100
                                                                      Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-31 15:46 +0100
                                                                        Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-31 19:11 +0100
                                                                          Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-31 10:35 -0800
                                                                            Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-02-01 11:34 +0100
                                                                              Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-02-01 17:24 +0100
                                                                                Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-02-01 22:46 +0100
                                                                      Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-31 15:29 +0000
                                                                        Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-31 08:41 -0800
                                                                          Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-31 17:06 +0000
                                                                  Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-31 06:00 +0000
                                                                    Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-31 15:15 +0000
                                                              Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-30 11:50 -0800
                                                                Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-31 06:02 +0000
                                                                  Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-31 12:43 +0100
                                                                    Re: iso646.h Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-01-31 13:58 +0200
                                                                      Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-31 13:35 +0100
                                                                        Re: iso646.h Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-01-31 15:10 +0200
                                                                          Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-31 18:19 +0100
                                                                            Re: iso646.h Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-01-31 19:53 +0200
                                                                          Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-02-01 23:49 +0000
                                                                        Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-31 15:17 +0000
                                                                        Re: iso646.h James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2024-01-31 11:20 -0500
                                                                          Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-31 18:06 +0100
                                                                            Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-02-01 23:52 +0000
                                                                    Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-31 08:30 -0800
                                                                  Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-31 15:16 +0000
                                                        Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-31 06:06 +0000
                                                        Re: iso646.h Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-01-30 23:18 -0800
                                                          Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-31 08:36 +0000
                                                            Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-31 15:21 +0100
                                                              Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-31 15:22 +0000
                                                                Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-31 19:15 +0100
                                                              Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-31 16:25 +0100
                                                                Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-31 15:58 +0000
                                                                  Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-31 17:17 +0100
                                                                    Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-31 17:05 +0000
                                                                Re: iso646.h Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-01-31 18:26 +0200
                                                                  Re: iso646.h Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-01-31 18:27 +0200
                                                                  Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-31 19:01 +0100
                                                                    Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-31 19:24 +0100
                                                                      Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-02-02 02:18 +0100
                                                                Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-31 19:20 +0100
                                                                  Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-02-02 02:48 +0100
                                                                    Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-02-02 07:16 +0000
                                                                      Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-02-02 13:17 +0100
                                                              Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-31 16:04 +0000
                                                            Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-31 08:33 -0800
                                                              Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-31 23:48 +0000
                                                                Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-31 16:49 -0800
                                                                  Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-02-01 01:10 +0000
                                                                    Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-31 17:36 -0800
                                                                      Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-02-01 02:23 +0000
                                                                        Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-31 18:30 -0800
                                                                Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-02-01 00:49 +0000
                                                            Re: iso646.h Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-02-01 05:24 -0800
                                                              Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-02-01 15:07 +0000
                                                                Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-02-01 12:18 -0800
                                                                  Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-02-01 23:57 +0000
                                                                    Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-02-02 13:34 +0100
                                                                Re: iso646.h Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-02-03 11:27 -0800
                                                          Re: iso646.h Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-01-31 12:43 +0200
                                                            Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-31 12:15 +0000
                                                              Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-31 13:49 +0100
                                                              Re: iso646.h Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-01-31 17:03 +0200
                                                                Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-31 15:49 +0000
                                                                  Re: iso646.h Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-01-31 18:04 +0200
                                                                    Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-31 16:54 +0000
                                                                      Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-31 09:16 -0800
                                                                        Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-31 17:21 +0000
                                                                Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-31 15:53 +0000
                                                                Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-31 17:29 +0100
                                                                  Re: iso646.h Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-01-31 19:36 +0200
                                                                    Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-31 19:47 +0100
                                                            Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-31 15:25 +0000
                                                              Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-31 16:33 +0100
                                                              Re: iso646.h Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-01-31 17:42 +0200
                                                                Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-31 15:58 +0000
                                                                Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-31 17:05 +0100
                                                                  Re: iso646.h Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-01-31 18:18 +0200
                                                                    Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-31 17:47 +0100
                                                                      Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-31 17:20 +0000
                                                                        [OT] Unix shells and POSIX shell (was Re: iso646.h) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-31 20:11 +0100
                                                                          Re: [OT] Unix shells and POSIX shell (was Re: iso646.h) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-31 19:28 +0000
                                                                            Re: [OT] Unix shells and POSIX shell (was Re: iso646.h) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-02-01 13:12 +0100
                                                                              Re: [OT] Unix shells and POSIX shell (was Re: iso646.h) bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-02-01 12:50 +0000
                                                                                Re: [OT] Unix shells and POSIX shell (was Re: iso646.h) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-02-02 04:57 +0000
                                                                                  Re: [OT] Unix shells and POSIX shell (was Re: iso646.h) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-02-02 07:18 +0000
                                                                                    Re: [OT] Unix shells and POSIX shell (was Re: iso646.h) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-02-03 01:44 +0000
                                                                                  Re: [OT] Unix shells and POSIX shell (was Re: iso646.h) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-02-02 09:34 +0100
                                                                                  Re: [OT] Unix shells and POSIX shell (was Re: iso646.h) bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-02-02 10:57 +0000
                                                                                    Re: [OT] Unix shells and POSIX shell (was Re: iso646.h) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-02-03 01:43 +0000
                                                                                      Re: [OT] Unix shells and POSIX shell (was Re: iso646.h) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-02-03 12:47 -0800
                                                                                        Re: [OT] Unix shells and POSIX shell (was Re: iso646.h) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-02-04 22:36 +0000
                                                                                          Re: [OT] Unix shells and POSIX shell (was Re: iso646.h) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-02-04 15:26 -0800
                                                                                            Re: [OT] Unix shells and POSIX shell (was Re: iso646.h) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-02-05 01:49 +0000
                                                                                              Re: [OT] Unix shells and POSIX shell (was Re: iso646.h) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-02-04 18:08 -0800
                                                                              Re: [OT] Unix shells and POSIX shell (was Re: iso646.h) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-02-01 15:04 +0000
                                                                                Re: [OT] Unix shells and POSIX shell (was Re: iso646.h) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-02-01 16:16 +0100
                                                                          Re: [OT] Unix shells and POSIX shell (was Re: iso646.h) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2024-01-31 20:16 +0000
                                                                            Re: [OT] Unix shells and POSIX shell (was Re: iso646.h) Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-01-31 22:22 +0200
                                                                              Re: [OT] Unix shells and POSIX shell (was Re: iso646.h) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-31 20:50 +0000
                                                                                Re: [OT] Unix shells and POSIX shell (was Re: iso646.h) Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-01-31 23:00 +0200
                                                                                  Re: [OT] Unix shells and POSIX shell (was Re: iso646.h) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2024-01-31 21:20 +0000
                                                                                    Re: [OT] Unix shells and POSIX shell (was Re: iso646.h) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-02-01 13:27 +0100
                                                                            Re: [OT] Unix shells and POSIX shell (was Re: iso646.h) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-02-01 13:16 +0100
                                                                              Re: [OT] Unix shells and POSIX shell (was Re: iso646.h) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2024-02-01 13:21 +0000
                                                                          Re: [OT] Unix shells and POSIX shell (was Re: iso646.h) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-02-01 11:45 +0100
                                                                            Re: [OT] Unix shells and POSIX shell (was Re: iso646.h) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-02-01 13:03 +0100
                                                                            Re: [OT] Unix shells and POSIX shell (was Re: iso646.h) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-02-02 04:58 +0000
                                                                          Re: [OT] Unix shells and POSIX shell (was Re: iso646.h) Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-02-01 05:22 -0800
                                                                            [meta] Re: [OT] Unix shells and POSIX shell (was Re: iso646.h) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-02-01 15:38 +0100
                                                                            Re: [OT] Unix shells and POSIX shell (was Re: iso646.h) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-02-02 05:00 +0000
                                                                      Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-31 19:22 +0100
                                                            Re: iso646.h Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-02-01 05:17 -0800
                                                            Re: Alternative Shells (was Re: iso646.h) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-02-02 05:04 +0000
                                                        Re: iso646.h Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2024-01-31 23:36 +0000
                                                          Re: iso646.h bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-02-01 00:21 +0000
                                                            Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-02-01 00:47 +0000
                                                              Re: iso646.h bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-02-01 01:29 +0000
                                                                Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-02-01 14:42 +0000
                                                                Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-02-01 15:50 +0100
                                                                  Re: iso646.h bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-02-01 17:06 +0000
                                                                    Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-02-01 23:02 +0100
                                                                      Re: iso646.h bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-02-01 22:56 +0000
                                                                        Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-02-02 03:13 +0100
                                                                        Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-02-02 09:44 +0100
                                                                      Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-02-02 01:08 +0000
                                                            Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-02-01 15:35 +0100
                                                              Re: iso646.h bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-02-01 15:32 +0000
                                                                Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-02-01 12:23 -0800
                                                                  Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-02-02 03:26 +0100
                                                            Re: iso646.h Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2024-02-02 23:41 +0000
                                                          Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-02-01 01:53 +0000
                                                            Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-02-01 14:45 +0000
                                                              Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-02-01 14:57 +0000
                                                                Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-02-01 16:47 +0100
                                                                  Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-02-01 16:22 +0000
                                                            Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-02-01 15:55 +0100
                                                              Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-02-01 15:41 +0000
                                                                Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-02-01 17:15 +0100
                                                                  Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-02-01 19:36 +0000
                                                                    Re: iso646.h Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-02-01 19:50 +0000
                                                                      Re: iso646.h Richard Harnden <richard.nospam@gmail.invalid> - 2024-02-01 20:03 +0000
                                                                Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-02-01 23:06 +0100
                                                                  Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-02-01 22:38 +0000
                                                                    Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-02-02 09:51 +0100
                                                                      Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-02-02 13:28 +0000
                                                                        Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-02-02 15:47 +0100
                                                                          Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-02-02 15:38 +0000
                                                            Re: iso646.h Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2024-02-02 23:38 +0000
                                                              Re: iso646.h Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-02-02 23:59 +0000
                                                          Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-02-01 05:24 +0000
                                                            Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-02-01 14:02 +0100
                                                              Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-02-01 13:26 +0000
                                                                Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-02-01 16:07 +0100
                                                                  Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-02-01 15:50 +0000
                                                                    Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-02-01 16:30 +0000
                                                                      Re: iso646.h bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-02-01 18:03 +0000
                                                                        Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-02-01 12:09 -0800
                                                                          Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-02-01 20:59 +0000
                                                                          Re: iso646.h bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-02-01 21:25 +0000
                                                                            Re: iso646.h "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-02-01 13:34 -0800
                                                                              Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-02-01 22:25 +0000
                                                                                Re: iso646.h "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-02-01 14:40 -0800
                                                                                Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-02-01 15:31 -0800
                                                                            Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-02-01 22:24 +0000
                                                                          Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-02-02 12:41 +0100
                                                                            Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-02-02 08:39 -0800
                                                                    Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-02-02 12:33 +0100
                                                                    Re: iso646.h Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2024-02-02 21:40 +0000
                                                                      Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-02-03 05:14 +0000
                                                                Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-02-01 16:48 +0100
                                                                  Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-02-01 16:19 +0000
                                                              Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-02-01 14:53 +0000
                                          Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-28 18:02 +0100
                Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-24 19:33 +0000
                  Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-24 19:45 +0000
                  Re: iso646.h kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2024-01-24 19:48 +0000
                  Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-25 00:30 +0000
                    Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-25 03:56 +0000
                      Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-25 05:25 +0000
                        Re: iso646.h Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-25 07:02 +0000
                      Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-25 14:46 +0100
                  Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-25 14:29 +0100
                    Re: iso646.h kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2024-01-25 15:08 +0000
                    Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-25 16:18 +0000
                      Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-25 11:20 -0800
                        Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-26 12:17 +0000
                          Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-26 07:56 -0800
                            Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-26 23:03 +0000
                          Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-26 17:06 +0100
                            Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-26 18:59 +0100
                              Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-26 20:18 +0100
                                Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-26 23:15 +0000
                                  Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-26 15:55 -0800
                                  Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-27 17:07 +0100
                                    Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-27 17:34 -0800
                                      Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-28 13:02 +0100
                                Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-27 01:12 +0100
                                  Re: iso646.h James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2024-01-26 20:43 -0500
                                    Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-27 11:21 +0100
                                  Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-27 03:05 +0000
                                    Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-27 11:34 +0100
                                      Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-27 11:02 +0000
                                        Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-27 12:36 +0100
                                          Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-29 18:32 +0000
                                            Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-29 19:48 +0100
                                              Re: iso646.h Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-29 19:35 +0000
                                                Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-29 21:10 +0100
                                                  Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-29 22:27 +0000
                                                    Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-30 10:05 +0100
                                  Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-27 17:46 +0100
                                    Re: iso646.h Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-28 20:16 +0100
                                      Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-29 17:20 +0100
                    Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-25 10:48 -0800
          Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-23 21:51 +0000
            Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-24 19:48 +0000
              Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-24 19:52 +0000
                Re: iso646.h "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-01-24 13:00 -0800
                Re: iso646.h Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-25 00:26 +0000
                  Re: iso646.h Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-25 01:25 +0000
              Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-24 12:09 -0800
                Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-25 03:46 +0000
                  Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-24 19:59 -0800
                    Re: iso646.h Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-25 05:39 +0000
                    Re: iso646.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2024-01-25 09:55 +0000
                      Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-25 15:19 +0100
                        Re: iso646.h Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-25 07:26 -0800
                          Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-26 17:12 +0100
                      Re: iso646.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-25 16:22 +0000
              Re: iso646.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-25 15:02 +0100

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#381560

FromJanis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com>
Date2024-02-02 02:48 +0100
Message-ID<uphhmb$2abr1$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#381391
On 31.01.2024 19:20, David Brown wrote:
> On 31/01/2024 16:25, Janis Papanagnou wrote:
>> On 31.01.2024 15:21, David Brown wrote:
>>> On 31/01/2024 09:36, Malcolm McLean wrote:
>>>> [ I snipped a couple of "I actually don't know/need it" things ]
>>>>
>>>> But now it's effectively a programming language, and, from the example
>>>> code, a very poorly designed one which is cryptic and fussy and liable
>>>> to be hard to maintain. So it's better to use a language like Perl to
>>>> achieve the same thing, and I did have a few Perl scripts handy for
>>>> repetitive jobs of that nature in my Unix days.
>>>
>>> That gave me a laugh!  You think bash is cryptic, fussy and poorly
>>> designed, and choose /Perl/ as the alternative :-)
>>
>> I don't think it's that clear a joke. The Unix shell is extremely
>> error prone to program, and you should not let a newbie write shell
>> programs without careful supervision. ("newbie" [in shell context]
>>   = less than 10 years of practical experience. - Am I exaggerating?
>> Maybe. But not much.)
> 
> I'm not a great fan of shell programming - anything advanced, and I tend
> to reach for Python.  But I think that is a matter of familiarity and
> practice.  But if you consider bash programming as difficult to get
> right, I'll not argue.

Not specifically bash programming, the same is true for ksh, etc.;
it's the underlying shell design that has a lot of pitfalls. And
it's not only about familiarity with the tool - of course being
familiar with the concepts is necessary. But there's still enough
pits where even years long programmers stumble into. (I'm saying
that as someone who did 35+ years ksh programming, I gave courses,
defined shell coding standards, followed 20+ years the problems
that users had in comp.unix.shell, and even saw experienced shell
book authors (and I'm not even mentioning bloggers), to fail in
some instances of the language.)

But of course, with knowledge and discipline, you can write also
fine shell programs.

Despite the shell inherent issues I like it because I can solve
some types of tasks reliably in Unix context.

> 
> Perl is famously known as a "write-only" language.  Sure, it is possible
> to write good, clear, maintainable Perl code - but few people do that.

I've programmed just a few times in Perl, mostly only extending
existing programs. But a friend of mine is leading a Perl user
group in our city; his programs (despite some cryptic elements)
are still quite legible.

> 
> Thus the idea that finding bash cryptic or difficult and using Perl
> instead is the joke.

Well, in shell it's all that '1>&2' and '${f##*/}' and whatnot
stuff that can only be called cryptic. I wouldn't count regexps
because that's the base in any proper scripting language. What
remains for Perl to be cryptic? The variable type prefixes are
the most prominent punctuation elements that pop into my head.
If one wants better legible yet simple scripts he could resort
to Awk; but its focus is different from shell. (Perl supports
both, but is not everywhere available.)

Janis

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#381578

FromMalcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com>
Date2024-02-02 07:16 +0000
Message-ID<upi4t5$2gn4l$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#381560
On 02/02/2024 01:48, Janis Papanagnou wrote:
> On 31.01.2024 19:20, David Brown wrote:
>> On 31/01/2024 16:25, Janis Papanagnou wrote:
>>> On 31.01.2024 15:21, David Brown wrote:
>>>> On 31/01/2024 09:36, Malcolm McLean wrote:
>>>>> [ I snipped a couple of "I actually don't know/need it" things ]
>>>>>
>>>>> But now it's effectively a programming language, and, from the example
>>>>> code, a very poorly designed one which is cryptic and fussy and liable
>>>>> to be hard to maintain. So it's better to use a language like Perl to
>>>>> achieve the same thing, and I did have a few Perl scripts handy for
>>>>> repetitive jobs of that nature in my Unix days.
>>>>
>>>> That gave me a laugh!  You think bash is cryptic, fussy and poorly
>>>> designed, and choose /Perl/ as the alternative :-)
>>>
>>> I don't think it's that clear a joke. The Unix shell is extremely
>>> error prone to program, and you should not let a newbie write shell
>>> programs without careful supervision. ("newbie" [in shell context]
>>>    = less than 10 years of practical experience. - Am I exaggerating?
>>> Maybe. But not much.)
>>
>> I'm not a great fan of shell programming - anything advanced, and I tend
>> to reach for Python.  But I think that is a matter of familiarity and
>> practice.  But if you consider bash programming as difficult to get
>> right, I'll not argue.
> 
> Not specifically bash programming, the same is true for ksh, etc.;
> it's the underlying shell design that has a lot of pitfalls. And
> it's not only about familiarity with the tool - of course being
> familiar with the concepts is necessary. But there's still enough
> pits where even years long programmers stumble into. (I'm saying
> that as someone who did 35+ years ksh programming, I gave courses,
> defined shell coding standards, followed 20+ years the problems
> that users had in comp.unix.shell, and even saw experienced shell
> book authors (and I'm not even mentioning bloggers), to fail in
> some instances of the language.)
> 
> But of course, with knowledge and discipline, you can write also
> fine shell programs.
> 
> Despite the shell inherent issues I like it because I can solve
> some types of tasks reliably in Unix context.
> 
>>
>> Perl is famously known as a "write-only" language.  Sure, it is possible
>> to write good, clear, maintainable Perl code - but few people do that.
> 
> I've programmed just a few times in Perl, mostly only extending
> existing programs. But a friend of mine is leading a Perl user
> group in our city; his programs (despite some cryptic elements)
> are still quite legible.
> 
>>
>> Thus the idea that finding bash cryptic or difficult and using Perl
>> instead is the joke.
> 
> Well, in shell it's all that '1>&2' and '${f##*/}' and whatnot
> stuff that can only be called cryptic. I wouldn't count regexps
> because that's the base in any proper scripting language. What
> remains for Perl to be cryptic? The variable type prefixes are
> the most prominent punctuation elements that pop into my head.
> If one wants better legible yet simple scripts he could resort
> to Awk; but its focus is different from shell. (Perl supports
> both, but is not everywhere available.)
> 
In Perl you have an implict variable called $_. Some Perl statements 
will operate on $_ without it actually being specified, and you then 
have to reference $_ exoictitly to obtain the result. It's highly 
confusing for anyone used to a conventional language with only one type 
of named varibales. And that's one of the main decisions which makes 
Perl hard to read.

However often you can write slightly less idiomatic Perl code which 
doesn't make use of this feature, and then it's clearer. Or you can lay 
the code out so that all the places where $_ are used in the same way 
are together and make it a bit easier to work out what is going on. 
There are thing you can do and Perl doesn't have to look like a 
confusing mess.

-- 
Check out Basic Algorithms and my other books:
https://www.lulu.com/spotlight/bgy1mm

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#381594

FromJanis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com>
Date2024-02-02 13:17 +0100
Message-ID<upimhk$2jhn0$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#381578
On 02.02.2024 08:16, Malcolm McLean wrote:
>
> In Perl you have an implict variable called $_. Some Perl statements
> will operate on $_ without it actually being specified, and you then
> have to reference $_ exoictitly to obtain the result. It's highly
> confusing for anyone used to a conventional language with only one type
> of named varibales. And that's one of the main decisions which makes
> Perl hard to read.

Yes, I remember that '$_', and even though I'm not the typical Perl
programmer (I told you about my only few contacts with Perl) it was
not the least confusing to me. I think, what also generally holds,
that if you want to use some tool you should at least make yourself
familiar with its basic concepts. (This appears to be a quite common
view, despite here we often see complaints complaints from folks with
only basic or no knowledge about the objects of their complain.)
But Perl is also a large language, and it needs some time to learn
or master it. But $_ seemed to me to be some basic thing.

That said, now consider in comparison (e.g.) Ksh that has also a
variable '_' (with value '$_'); and the contents of Ksh's '_' is
even depending on the runtime context!

> 
> However often you can write slightly less idiomatic Perl code which
> doesn't make use of this feature, and then it's clearer. Or you can lay
> the code out so that all the places where $_ are used in the same way
> are together and make it a bit easier to work out what is going on.
> There are thing you can do and Perl doesn't have to look like a
> confusing mess.

Yes. Quite typical for many scripting languages. Sometimes there's
even some desire to produce short, cryptic, "clever", forms of code.

Janis

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#381362

FromMalcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com>
Date2024-01-31 16:04 +0000
Message-ID<updr1m$1jc55$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#381341
On 31/01/2024 14:21, David Brown wrote:
> On 31/01/2024 09:36, Malcolm McLean wrote:
>> 
> 
> That gave me a laugh!  You think bash is cryptic, fussy and poorly 
> designed, and choose /Perl/ as the alternative :-)
> 

I'm not a great fan of Perl and if I was writing the language then it 
would look a lot different to what it does now. But I wasn't the person 
to implement it and, for various reasons, you have to use what is 
standard (when I had the Unix system some other people in the lab were 
doing their main work in Perl, because it had good bioinformatics 
libraries, so of course that Perl a natural choice for little scripts 
which otherwise would have been written in a shell language).

However the main advantage of Perl is that it was designed from the 
start as a programming language in which programmers would write 
human-readable, maintainable scripts. And you can write it reasonably 
clearly with care, if you avoid some of the more idiomatic features.

-- 
Check out Basic Algorithms and my other books:
https://www.lulu.com/spotlight/bgy1mm

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#381372

FromKeith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com>
Date2024-01-31 08:33 -0800
Message-ID<877cjptqcc.fsf@nosuchdomain.example.com>
In reply to#381316
Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> writes:
> On 31/01/2024 07:18, Tim Rentsch wrote:
[...]
>> It is FAR more cumbersome to accomplish what this command
>> is doing without sending binary data through standard out.
>> Anyone who doesn't understand this doesn't understand Unix.
>>
> Yes. I don't do that sort of thing.

You don't.  Others do.  What was your point again?

[...]

-- 
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com
Working, but not speaking, for Medtronic
void Void(void) { Void(); } /* The recursive call of the void */

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#381418

FromMalcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com>
Date2024-01-31 23:48 +0000
Message-ID<upem91$1o053$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#381372
On 31/01/2024 16:33, Keith Thompson wrote:
> Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> writes:
>> On 31/01/2024 07:18, Tim Rentsch wrote:
> [...]
>>> It is FAR more cumbersome to accomplish what this command
>>> is doing without sending binary data through standard out.
>>> Anyone who doesn't understand this doesn't understand Unix.
>>>
>> Yes. I don't do that sort of thing.
> 
> You don't.  Others do.  What was your point again?
> 
There's kind of an implication that it's something I ought to be doing.

-- 
Check out Basic Algorithms and my other books:
https://www.lulu.com/spotlight/bgy1mm

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#381423

FromKeith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com>
Date2024-01-31 16:49 -0800
Message-ID<87zfwlqa8j.fsf@nosuchdomain.example.com>
In reply to#381418
Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> writes:
> On 31/01/2024 16:33, Keith Thompson wrote:
>> Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> writes:
>>> On 31/01/2024 07:18, Tim Rentsch wrote:
>> [...]
>>>> It is FAR more cumbersome to accomplish what this command
>>>> is doing without sending binary data through standard out.
>>>> Anyone who doesn't understand this doesn't understand Unix.
>>>>
>>> Yes. I don't do that sort of thing.
>> You don't.  Others do.  What was your point again?
>> 
> There's kind of an implication that it's something I ought to be doing.

Nope.

You seemed to be implying that it's something nobody else ought to be
doing.  If that's not what you meant, we can just drop this.

-- 
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com
Working, but not speaking, for Medtronic
void Void(void) { Void(); } /* The recursive call of the void */

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#381425

FromMalcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com>
Date2024-02-01 01:10 +0000
Message-ID<uper1v$1oma0$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#381423
On 01/02/2024 00:49, Keith Thompson wrote:
> Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> writes:
>> On 31/01/2024 16:33, Keith Thompson wrote:
>>> Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> writes:
>>>> On 31/01/2024 07:18, Tim Rentsch wrote:
>>> [...]
>>>>> It is FAR more cumbersome to accomplish what this command
>>>>> is doing without sending binary data through standard out.
>>>>> Anyone who doesn't understand this doesn't understand Unix.
>>>>>
>>>> Yes. I don't do that sort of thing.
>>> You don't.  Others do.  What was your point again?
>>>
>> There's kind of an implication that it's something I ought to be doing.
> 
> Nope.
> 
> You seemed to be implying that it's something nobody else ought to be
> doing.  If that's not what you meant, we can just drop this.
> 
No. It's something which has no value in and of itself, so you should 
only do it or learn much about it if faced with a practical need to set 
up or debug and troubleshoot such systems. Unlike some other types of 
computer programming. But I don't want to imply that there is never a 
need for it or that you're a lesser person if you do have a need for it. 
But it's nothing to be proud of either. It's like knowing how to use MS 
Word if you are doing a PhD. Often you would and we even had formal 
courses run by the university on Word for long documents. But it doesn't 
make you a scientist.

But as you say, I think I've made the point. And you weren't the person 
to imply that I ought to know more about Unix pipelines than I do.
-- 
Check out Basic Algorithms and my other books:
https://www.lulu.com/spotlight/bgy1mm

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#381429

FromKeith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com>
Date2024-01-31 17:36 -0800
Message-ID<87sf2dq832.fsf@nosuchdomain.example.com>
In reply to#381425
Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> writes:
> On 01/02/2024 00:49, Keith Thompson wrote:
>> Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> writes:
>>> On 31/01/2024 16:33, Keith Thompson wrote:
>>>> Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>> On 31/01/2024 07:18, Tim Rentsch wrote:
>>>> [...]
>>>>>> It is FAR more cumbersome to accomplish what this command
>>>>>> is doing without sending binary data through standard out.
>>>>>> Anyone who doesn't understand this doesn't understand Unix.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Yes. I don't do that sort of thing.
>>>> You don't.  Others do.  What was your point again?
>>>>
>>> There's kind of an implication that it's something I ought to be doing.
>> Nope.
>> You seemed to be implying that it's something nobody else ought to be
>> doing.  If that's not what you meant, we can just drop this.
>> 
> No. It's something which has no value in and of itself,

Demonstrably wrong.

>                                                         so you should
> only do it or learn much about it if faced with a practical need to
> set up or debug and troubleshoot such systems. Unlike some other types
> of computer programming. But I don't want to imply that there is never
> a need for it or that you're a lesser person if you do have a need for
> it. But it's nothing to be proud of either. It's like knowing how to
> use MS Word if you are doing a PhD. Often you would and we even had
> formal courses run by the university on Word for long documents. But
> it doesn't make you a scientist.
>
> But as you say, I think I've made the point. And you weren't the
> person to imply that I ought to know more about Unix pipelines than I
> do.

So your point is that you want to be condescending about something you
don't understand very well.

Got it.

-- 
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com
Working, but not speaking, for Medtronic
void Void(void) { Void(); } /* The recursive call of the void */

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#381432

FromMalcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com>
Date2024-02-01 02:23 +0000
Message-ID<upevaa$1p814$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#381429
On 01/02/2024 01:36, Keith Thompson wrote:
> Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> writes:
>> On 01/02/2024 00:49, Keith Thompson wrote:
>>> Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> writes:
>>>> On 31/01/2024 16:33, Keith Thompson wrote:
>>>>> Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>>> On 31/01/2024 07:18, Tim Rentsch wrote:
>>>>> [...]
>>>>>>> It is FAR more cumbersome to accomplish what this command
>>>>>>> is doing without sending binary data through standard out.
>>>>>>> Anyone who doesn't understand this doesn't understand Unix.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes. I don't do that sort of thing.
>>>>> You don't.  Others do.  What was your point again?
>>>>>
>>>> There's kind of an implication that it's something I ought to be doing.
>>> Nope.
>>> You seemed to be implying that it's something nobody else ought to be
>>> doing.  If that's not what you meant, we can just drop this.
>>>
>> No. It's something which has no value in and of itself,
> 
> Demonstrably wrong.
> 
You're not going to learn anything useful about anything by learning 
abut Unix pipelines. Except how to set up a Unix pipeline itself.

That's what you don't seem to have taken on board. It's not 
"condescending" to point that out. That's not true of many other topics 
in programming.

-- 
Check out Basic Algorithms and my other books:
https://www.lulu.com/spotlight/bgy1mm

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#381434

FromKeith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com>
Date2024-01-31 18:30 -0800
Message-ID<87h6isrk5l.fsf@nosuchdomain.example.com>
In reply to#381432
Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> writes:
[...]
> You're not going to learn anything useful about anything by learning
> abut Unix pipelines. Except how to set up a Unix pipeline itself.
>
> That's what you don't seem to have taken on board. It's not
> "condescending" to point that out. That's not true of many other
> topics in programming.

Nonsense, and not worth my time to refute.

-- 
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com
Working, but not speaking, for Medtronic
void Void(void) { Void(); } /* The recursive call of the void */

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#381424

Fromscott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
Date2024-02-01 00:49 +0000
Message-ID<RUBuN.86400$m4d.49465@fx43.iad>
In reply to#381418
Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> writes:
>On 31/01/2024 16:33, Keith Thompson wrote:
>> Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> writes:
>>> On 31/01/2024 07:18, Tim Rentsch wrote:
>> [...]
>>>> It is FAR more cumbersome to accomplish what this command
>>>> is doing without sending binary data through standard out.
>>>> Anyone who doesn't understand this doesn't understand Unix.
>>>>
>>> Yes. I don't do that sort of thing.
>> 
>> You don't.  Others do.  What was your point again?
>> 
>There's kind of an implication that it's something I ought to be doing.

No, we're saying that what you do or don't do is irrelevent.  Nobody is
forcing you to do anything other than acknowledge that it is a useful
capability that others use regularly.

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#381458

FromTim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com>
Date2024-02-01 05:24 -0800
Message-ID<86jzno9v19.fsf@linuxsc.com>
In reply to#381316
Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> writes:

> On 31/01/2024 07:18, Tim Rentsch wrote:
>
>> Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>>> On 30/01/2024 07:27, Tim Rentsch wrote:
>>>
>>>> Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>
>>>>> On 29/01/2024 20:10, Tim Rentsch wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [...]
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I've never used standard output for binary data.
>>>>>>> [...] it strikes me as a poor design decision.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> How so?
>>>>>
>>>>> Because the output can't be inspected by humans, and because it might
>>>>> have unusual effects if passed though systems designed to handle
>>>>> human-readable text.  For instance in some systems designed to receive
>>>>> ASCII text, there is no distinction between the nul byte and "waiting
>>>>> for next data byte".  Obviously this will cause difficuties if the data
>>>>> is binary.
>>>>> Also many binary formats can't easily be extended, so you can pass one
>>>>> image and that's all.  While it is possible to devise a text format
>>>>> which is similar, in practice text formats usually have enough
>>>>> redundancy to be easily extended.
>>>>>
>>>>> So it's harder to correct errors, more prone to errors, and harder to
>>>>> extend.
>>>>
>>>> Your reasoning is all gobbledygook.  Your comments reflect only
>>>> limitations in your thinking, not any essential truth about using
>>>> standard out for binary data.
>>>
>>> I must admit that it's nothing I have ever done or considered doing.
>>>
>>> [...]
>>
>> Simple example (disclaimer: not tested):
>>
>>      ssh foo 'cd blah ; tar -cf - . | gzip -c' | \
>>         (mkdir foo.blah ; cd foo.blah ; gunzip -c | tar -xf -)
>>
>> Of the five main programs in this command, four are using
>> standard out to send binary data:
>>
>>      tar -cf - .
>>      gzip -c
>>      ssh foo [...]
>>      gunzip -c
>>
>> The tar -xf - at the end reads binary data on standard in
>> but doesn't output any (or anything else for that matter).
>>
>> It is FAR more cumbersome to accomplish what this command
>> is doing without sending binary data through standard out.
>> Anyone who doesn't understand this doesn't understand Unix.
>
> Yes.  I don't do that sort of thing.
> While I have used Unix, it is as a platform for interactive programs
> which work on graohics, or a general C compilation environment.  I
> don;t build pipeliens to do that sort of data processing.  If I had to
> download a tar file I'd either use a graphical tool or type serveal
> commands into the shell, each launching single executable,
> interactively.
>
> The reason is that I'd only run the command once, and it's so likely
> that there will be either a syntax misunderstanding or a typing error
> that I'd have to test to ensure that it was right.  And by the time
> you've done that any time saved by typing only one commandline is
> lost.  Of course if you are writing scripts then that doesn't
> apply.  But now it's effectively a programming language, and, from the
> example code, a very poorly designed one which is cryptic and fussy
> and liable to be hard to maintain.  So it's better to use a language
> like Perl to achieve the same thing, and I did have a few Perl scripts
> handy for repetitive jobs of that nature in my Unix days.
>
> You admit this with "not tested".  Says it all.  '"Understandig Unix" is
> an intellectually useless achievement.  You might have to do it if you
> have to use the system and debug and trouble shoot.  But it's nothing
> to be proud about.

You're an idiot.  As usual trying to have a useful discussion
with you has turned out to be a complete waste of time.

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#381477

FromMalcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com>
Date2024-02-01 15:07 +0000
Message-ID<upgc3u$23u8i$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#381458
On 01/02/2024 13:24, Tim Rentsch wrote:
> Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> writes:
> 
>> You admit this with "not tested".  Says it all.  '"Understandig Unix" is
>> an intellectually useless achievement.  You might have to do it if you
>> have to use the system and debug and trouble shoot.  But it's nothing
>> to be proud about.
> 
> You're an idiot.  As usual trying to have a useful discussion
> with you has turned out to be a complete waste of time.
 >
Some things are interesting in themselves and worth talking about at 
lenght. Like how Haskell builds up functions of functions. Other things 
really aren't. And how to set up a Unix pipeline is one of those that 
really aren't (unless actually faced with a such a system and with a 
practical need to do it).

I think you have the intelligence to understand this, if you'd just 
understand where I am coming from. This arrogant and dismissive attitude 
does not become you.
-- 
Check out Basic Algorithms and my other books:
https://www.lulu.com/spotlight/bgy1mm

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#381510

FromKeith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com>
Date2024-02-01 12:18 -0800
Message-ID<874jesq6p7.fsf@nosuchdomain.example.com>
In reply to#381477
Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> writes:
[...]
> Some things are interesting in themselves and worth talking about at
> lenght. Like how Haskell builds up functions of functions. Other
> things really aren't. And how to set up a Unix pipeline is one of
> those that really aren't (unless actually faced with a such a system
> and with a practical need to do it).

That's your opinion.  You seem to be expecting others to find it correct
and intuitively obvious if they'd only *think* about it.  You're wrong.
You won't change your mind.

-- 
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com
Working, but not speaking, for Medtronic
void Void(void) { Void(); } /* The recursive call of the void */

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#381548

FromMalcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com>
Date2024-02-01 23:57 +0000
Message-ID<uphb4u$29f8k$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#381510
On 01/02/2024 20:18, Keith Thompson wrote:
> Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> writes:
> [...]
>> Some things are interesting in themselves and worth talking about at
>> lenght. Like how Haskell builds up functions of functions. Other
>> things really aren't. And how to set up a Unix pipeline is one of
>> those that really aren't (unless actually faced with a such a system
>> and with a practical need to do it).
> 
> That's your opinion.  You seem to be expecting others to find it correct
> and intuitively obvious if they'd only *think* about it.  You're wrong.
> You won't change your mind.
> 
No not really.
Elsethread people are talking about the precise syntax for redirecting 
output in the UNIX shell. Now of course that's off topic for comp.lang.
If we were talking about the precise syntax for redirecting stdout to 
another stream in a C program, it would be different. However I'm one to 
talk and you coukd say that many of things I like talking abiut are no 
more topical.

The difference is that the syntax for redirecting output in the UNIX 
shell is ony of the slightest use if you happen to run that particular 
type of system. Now I can't use Haskell for any pratical programaming. 
It's a total non-starter. But that doesn't mean that we can't look at 
the way Haskell composes functions of functions and use that to gain 
insights into how to specify functions, as general programming task.
So you can say "But pipes are a concept not necessarily limited to 
Unix." OK, fair enough. But what provoked this was "you don't understand 
hiw Unix works". And whilst pipes are a concept, they are no way 
comparable in depth and fundamental importance to the concept of 
functions of functions.

The point is the two are not comparable. It's not a matter of my 
subjective tastes or opinion.
-- 
Check out Basic Algorithms and my other books:
https://www.lulu.com/spotlight/bgy1mm

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#381595

FromJanis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com>
Date2024-02-02 13:34 +0100
Message-ID<upinhd$2jn3t$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#381548
On 02.02.2024 00:57, Malcolm McLean wrote:
> 
> The difference is that the syntax for redirecting output in the UNIX
> shell is ony of the slightest use if you happen to run that particular
> type of system.

Hasn't DOS adopted the basic redirections as well?
And hasn't it even tried to mimic pipes?

Of course redirection and its specific syntaxes are depending on
the supporting OS. So what?

In Unix they developed a terse version at a time where on other
OSes you need to "formulate novels" to invoke such features.
And that version was good enough to have been adopted by other
tools. And it's also simple enough that many users use these in
their programming contexts effectively (and without complaints).

> [...] And whilst pipes are a concept, they are no way
> comparable in depth and fundamental importance to the concept of
> functions of functions.
> 
> The point is the two are not comparable. [...]

Of course. This point sounds completely reasonable to me.

So the confusion was only about some inappropriate statement that
had been used. (I seem to recall, and think I commented on that.)

Janis

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#381694

FromTim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com>
Date2024-02-03 11:27 -0800
Message-ID<86cytd8i1i.fsf@linuxsc.com>
In reply to#381477
Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> writes:

> On 01/02/2024 13:24, Tim Rentsch wrote:
>
>> Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>>> You admit this with "not tested".  Says it all.  '"Understandig Unix" is
>>> an intellectually useless achievement.  You might have to do it if you
>>> have to use the system and debug and trouble shoot.  But it's nothing
>>> to be proud about.
>>
>> You're an idiot.  As usual trying to have a useful discussion
>> with you has turned out to be a complete waste of time.
>
> Some things are interesting in themselves and worth talking about at
> lenght.  Like how Haskell builds up functions of functions.  Other
> things really aren't.  And how to set up a Unix pipeline is one of
> those that really aren't (unless actually faced with a such a system
> and with a practical need to do it).
>
> I think you have the intelligence to understand this, if you'd just
> understand where I am coming from.  This arrogant and dismissive
> attitude does not become you.

The arrogance and dismissive attitude is on your side, not
mine.  I don't think everyone is an idiot.  Just you.

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#381319

FromMichael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com>
Date2024-01-31 12:43 +0200
Message-ID<20240131124332.00002c05@yahoo.com>
In reply to#381312
On Tue, 30 Jan 2024 23:18:21 -0800
Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> wrote:

> Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> writes:
> 
> > On 30/01/2024 07:27, Tim Rentsch wrote:
> >  
> >> Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> writes:
> >>  
> >>> On 29/01/2024 20:10, Tim Rentsch wrote:
> >>>  
> >>>> Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> writes:
> >>>>
> >>>> [...]
> >>>>  
> >>>>> I've never used standard output for binary data.
> >>>>> [...] it strikes me as a poor design decision.  
> >>>>
> >>>> How so?  
> >>>
> >>> Because the output can't be inspected by humans, and because it
> >>> might have unusual effects if passed though systems designed to
> >>> handle human-readable text.  For instance in some systems
> >>> designed to receive ASCII text, there is no distinction between
> >>> the nul byte and "waiting for next data byte".  Obviously this
> >>> will cause difficuties if the data is binary.
> >>> Also many binary formats can't easily be extended, so you can
> >>> pass one image and that's all.  While it is possible to devise a
> >>> text format which is similar, in practice text formats usually
> >>> have enough redundancy to be easily extended.
> >>>
> >>> So it's harder to correct errors, more prone to errors, and
> >>> harder to extend.  
> >>
> >> Your reasoning is all gobbledygook.  Your comments reflect only
> >> limitations in your thinking, not any essential truth about using
> >> standard out for binary data.  
> >
> > I must admit that it's nothing I have ever done or considered doing.
> >
> > [...]  
> 
> Simple example (disclaimer: not tested):
> 
>     ssh foo 'cd blah ; tar -cf - . | gzip -c' | \
>        (mkdir foo.blah ; cd foo.blah ; gunzip -c | tar -xf -)
> 
> Of the five main programs in this command, four are using
> standard out to send binary data:
> 
>     tar -cf - .
>     gzip -c
>     ssh foo [...]
>     gunzip -c
> 
> The tar -xf - at the end reads binary data on standard in
> but doesn't output any (or anything else for that matter).
> 
> It is FAR more cumbersome to accomplish what this command
> is doing without sending binary data through standard out.

If I am not mistaken, tar, gzip and gunzip do not write binary data to
standard output by default. They should be specifically told to do so.
For ssh I don't know. Anyway, ssh is not a "normal" program  so it's
not surprising when textuality of ssh output is the same as textuality
of the command it carries.

> Anyone who doesn't understand this doesn't understand Unix.

Frankly, Unix redirection racket looks like something hacked together
rather than designed as result of the solid thinking process.
As long as there were only standard input and output it was sort of
logical. But when they figured out that it is insufficient, they had
chosen a quick hack instead of constructing a solution that wouldn't
offend engineering senses of any non-preconditioned observer.

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#381326

FromMalcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com>
Date2024-01-31 12:15 +0000
Message-ID<upddks$1gkml$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#381319
On 31/01/2024 10:43, Michael S wrote:
> On Tue, 30 Jan 2024 23:18:21 -0800
> Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> wrote:
> 
>> Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>>> On 30/01/2024 07:27, Tim Rentsch wrote:
>>>   
>>>> Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>   
>>>>> On 29/01/2024 20:10, Tim Rentsch wrote:
>>>>>   
>>>>>> Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [...]
>>>>>>   
>>>>>>> I've never used standard output for binary data.
>>>>>>> [...] it strikes me as a poor design decision.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> How so?
>>>>>
>>>>> Because the output can't be inspected by humans, and because it
>>>>> might have unusual effects if passed though systems designed to
>>>>> handle human-readable text.  For instance in some systems
>>>>> designed to receive ASCII text, there is no distinction between
>>>>> the nul byte and "waiting for next data byte".  Obviously this
>>>>> will cause difficuties if the data is binary.
>>>>> Also many binary formats can't easily be extended, so you can
>>>>> pass one image and that's all.  While it is possible to devise a
>>>>> text format which is similar, in practice text formats usually
>>>>> have enough redundancy to be easily extended.
>>>>>
>>>>> So it's harder to correct errors, more prone to errors, and
>>>>> harder to extend.
>>>>
>>>> Your reasoning is all gobbledygook.  Your comments reflect only
>>>> limitations in your thinking, not any essential truth about using
>>>> standard out for binary data.
>>>
>>> I must admit that it's nothing I have ever done or considered doing.
>>>
>>> [...]
>>
>> Simple example (disclaimer: not tested):
>>
>>      ssh foo 'cd blah ; tar -cf - . | gzip -c' | \
>>         (mkdir foo.blah ; cd foo.blah ; gunzip -c | tar -xf -)
>>
>> Of the five main programs in this command, four are using
>> standard out to send binary data:
>>
>>      tar -cf - .
>>      gzip -c
>>      ssh foo [...]
>>      gunzip -c
>>
>> The tar -xf - at the end reads binary data on standard in
>> but doesn't output any (or anything else for that matter).
>>
>> It is FAR more cumbersome to accomplish what this command
>> is doing without sending binary data through standard out.
> 
> If I am not mistaken, tar, gzip and gunzip do not write binary data to
> standard output by default. They should be specifically told to do so.
> For ssh I don't know. Anyway, ssh is not a "normal" program  so it's
> not surprising when textuality of ssh output is the same as textuality
> of the command it carries.
> 
>> Anyone who doesn't understand this doesn't understand Unix.
> 
> Frankly, Unix redirection racket looks like something hacked together
> rather than designed as result of the solid thinking process.
> As long as there were only standard input and output it was sort of
> logical. But when they figured out that it is insufficient, they had
> chosen a quick hack instead of constructing a solution that wouldn't
> offend engineering senses of any non-preconditioned observer.
> 
It was designed for very memory constrained systems which handled text 
on a line by line basis. So one line of a long file wuld be processed
and passed down the pipeline, and you wouldn't need temporary disk files
or large amounts of memory. I'm sure it worked quite well for that.


-- 
Check out Basic Algorithms and my other books:
https://www.lulu.com/spotlight/bgy1mm

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