Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]
Groups > comp.lang.c > #391319 > unrolled thread
| Started by | DFS <nospam@dfs.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2025-03-18 21:38 -0400 |
| Last post | 2025-03-23 12:29 -0400 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 422 — 23 participants |
Back to article view | Back to comp.lang.c
Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2025-03-18 21:38 -0400
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-03-18 19:05 -0700
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-03-18 19:22 -0700
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2025-03-18 22:43 -0400
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-03-18 20:11 -0700
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2025-03-18 20:07 -0700
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2025-03-18 23:34 -0400
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-03-19 04:01 +0000
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2025-03-19 00:38 -0400
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2025-03-18 22:27 -0700
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2025-03-19 13:23 -0400
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2025-03-19 13:40 -0400
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-03-19 11:56 -0700
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2025-03-19 15:06 -0400
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2025-03-19 12:52 -0700
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-03-19 11:55 +0200
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2025-03-19 13:23 -0400
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-03-19 17:38 +0000
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-03-19 20:19 +0200
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-03-19 19:03 +0000
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2025-03-20 05:09 -0700
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-03-20 12:23 +0000
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-03-20 13:36 +0000
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-03-20 14:00 +0000
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-03-20 14:32 +0000
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-03-20 15:11 +0000
Integral types and own type definitions (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-03-24 16:37 +0100
Re: Integral types and own type definitions (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-03-24 16:14 +0000
Re: Integral types and own type definitions (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-03-24 17:20 +0100
Re: Integral types and own type definitions (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2025-03-24 21:56 -0700
Re: Integral types and own type definitions (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-03-25 08:45 +0100
Re: Integral types and own type definitions (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-03-25 09:08 +0100
Re: Integral types and own type definitions (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-03-25 19:55 +0100
Re: Integral types and own type definitions (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-03-26 09:18 +0100
Re: Integral types and own type definitions (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-03-25 08:39 +0000
Re: Integral types and own type definitions (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2025-03-25 03:51 -0700
Re: Integral types and own type definitions (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-03-25 13:11 +0200
Re: Integral types and own type definitions (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2025-03-25 05:02 -0700
Re: Integral types and own type definitions (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-03-25 16:33 +0100
Re: Integral types and own type definitions (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-03-25 20:04 +0100
Re: Integral types and own type definitions (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-03-26 09:23 +0100
Re: Integral types and own type definitions (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-03-25 13:31 -0700
Re: Integral types and own type definitions (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-03-26 09:34 +0100
Re: Integral types and own type definitions (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-03-26 02:59 -0700
Re: Integral types and own type definitions (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-03-26 12:33 +0100
Re: Integral types and own type definitions (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-03-26 15:59 +0100
Re: Integral types and own type definitions (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-03-26 17:37 +0100
Re: Integral types and own type definitions (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-03-26 12:38 -0700
Re: Integral types and own type definitions (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-03-26 22:53 +0100
Re: Integral types and own type definitions (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-03-26 15:15 -0700
Re: Integral types and own type definitions (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-03-27 10:11 +0100
Re: Integral types and own type definitions (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-03-29 18:25 +0100
Re: Integral types and own type definitions (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-03-29 18:20 +0000
Re: Integral types and own type definitions (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-03-30 01:39 +0100
Re: Integral types and own type definitions (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2025-03-31 17:15 +0000
Re: Integral types and own type definitions (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-03-31 19:48 +0000
Re: Integral types and own type definitions (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-03-31 21:14 +0000
Re: Integral types and own type definitions (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-03-31 14:56 -0700
Re: Integral types and own type definitions (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2025-03-26 14:07 -0400
Re: Integral types and own type definitions (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-03-26 17:58 +0000
Re: Integral types and own type definitions (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2025-03-26 14:20 -0400
Re: Integral types and own type definitions (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-03-26 12:42 -0700
Re: Integral types and own type definitions (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-03-26 17:36 +0000
Re: Integral types and own type definitions (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2025-03-27 13:48 -0400
Re: Integral types and own type definitions (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-03-27 18:31 +0000
Re: Integral types and own type definitions (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2025-03-29 10:14 -0400
Re: Integral types and own type definitions (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-03-29 16:39 +0000
Re: Integral types and own type definitions (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2025-03-29 21:02 -0400
Re: Integral types and own type definitions (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-03-27 12:31 -0700
Re: Integral types and own type definitions (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-03-27 20:06 +0000
Newsgroup etiquette Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2025-03-28 11:03 -0700
Re: Newsgroup etiquette Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-03-28 18:39 +0000
Re: Newsgroup etiquette Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-03-28 18:45 +0000
Re: Newsgroup etiquette Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2025-04-27 12:28 -0700
Re: Newsgroup etiquette Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-04-27 14:40 -0700
Re: Newsgroup etiquette Ethan Carter <ec1828@somewhere.edu> - 2025-04-28 00:59 -0300
Re: Integral types and own type definitions (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-03-26 15:58 +0100
Re: Integral types and own type definitions (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-03-25 19:09 +0200
Re: Integral types and own type definitions (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-03-25 17:34 +0000
Re: Integral types and own type definitions (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-03-25 19:49 +0000
Re: Integral types and own type definitions (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2025-03-25 12:53 -0700
Re: Integral types and own type definitions (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-03-25 13:39 -0700
Re: Integral types and own type definitions (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2026-02-07 00:04 -0800
Re: Integral types and own type definitions (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2025-03-25 13:23 -0700
Re: Integral types and own type definitions (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-03-26 09:50 +0100
Re: Integral types and own type definitions (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-03-25 16:22 +0000
Re: Integral types and own type definitions (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) Richard Harnden <richard.nospam@gmail.invalid> - 2025-03-25 18:18 +0000
Re: Integral types and own type definitions (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-03-25 19:55 +0100
Re: Integral types and own type definitions (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-03-25 13:41 -0700
Re: Integral types and own type definitions (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-03-25 23:35 +0100
Re: Integral types and own type definitions (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-03-25 16:38 -0700
Re: Integral types and own type definitions (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2025-03-25 19:55 -0400
Re: Integral types and own type definitions (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-03-26 10:00 +0100
Re: Integral types and own type definitions (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-03-26 16:01 +0200
Re: Integral types and own type definitions (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-03-26 14:45 +0000
Re: Integral types and own type definitions (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-03-26 17:16 +0200
Re: Integral types and own type definitions (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2025-03-26 08:55 -0700
Re: Integral types and own type definitions (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-03-26 17:45 +0100
Re: Integral types and own type definitions (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-03-26 17:22 +0000
Re: Integral types and own type definitions (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-03-26 17:19 +0000
Re: Integral types and own type definitions (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-03-26 17:40 +0100
Re: Integral types and own type definitions (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-03-26 17:25 +0000
Re: Integral types and own type definitions (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-03-26 21:27 +0100
Re: Integral types and own type definitions (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-03-26 20:34 +0000
Re: Integral types and own type definitions (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-03-26 13:50 -0700
Re: Integral types and own type definitions (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-03-26 21:04 +0000
Re: Integral types and own type definitions (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-03-26 14:12 -0700
Re: Integral types and own type definitions (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-03-26 21:18 +0000
Re: Integral types and own type definitions (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-03-26 23:22 +0200
Re: Integral types and own type definitions (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2025-03-26 14:38 -0400
Re: Integral types and own type definitions (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-03-26 18:52 +0000
Re: Integral types and own type definitions (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-03-26 17:32 +0100
Re: Integral types and own type definitions (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-03-26 22:29 +0000
Re: Integral types and own type definitions (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2025-03-26 14:31 -0400
Re: Integral types and own type definitions (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-03-26 21:33 +0100
Re: Integral types and own type definitions (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-03-28 15:42 +0000
Re: Integral types and own type definitions (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2025-03-25 19:52 -0400
Re: Integral types and own type definitions (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-03-25 17:16 -0700
Re: Integral types and own type definitions (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2025-03-25 04:55 -0700
Re: Integral types and own type definitions (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-03-25 13:48 -0700
Re: Integral types and own type definitions (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-03-25 21:52 +0000
Re: Integral types and own type definitions (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-03-25 22:36 +0000
Re: Integral types and own type definitions (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-03-25 23:14 +0000
Re: Integral types and own type definitions (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-03-26 10:09 +0100
Re: Integral types and own type definitions (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2025-05-03 20:03 -0700
Re: Integral types and own type definitions (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-05-04 14:04 +0200
Re: Integral types and own type definitions (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-04 15:43 +0100
Re: Integral types and own type definitions (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-05-04 18:39 +0200
Re: Integral types and own type definitions (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-04 19:02 +0100
Re: Integral types and own type definitions (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-05-05 11:29 +0200
Re: Integral types and own type definitions (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2025-05-15 23:02 -0700
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Muttley@DastardlyHQ.org - 2025-03-20 14:50 +0000
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-03-20 16:59 +0200
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Muttley@DastardlyHQ.org - 2025-03-20 15:16 +0000
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-03-20 17:29 +0200
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Muttley@DastardlyHQ.org - 2025-03-20 15:55 +0000
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-03-23 11:01 +0200
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2025-03-23 12:56 -0700
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2025-03-20 11:47 -0700
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-03-20 12:28 -0700
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-03-20 15:40 +0000
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Muttley@DastardlyHQ.org - 2025-03-20 15:57 +0000
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-03-20 20:46 +0200
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-03-20 19:15 +0000
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-03-20 19:58 +0000
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-03-20 22:57 +0200
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-03-20 21:10 +0000
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-03-20 16:10 -0700
The integral type 'byte' (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-03-24 16:59 +0100
Re: The integral type 'byte' (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-03-24 15:57 -0700
Re: The integral type 'byte' (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-03-25 10:38 +0100
Re: The integral type 'byte' (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-03-25 16:31 +0000
Re: The integral type 'byte' (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-03-25 19:23 +0100
Re: The integral type 'byte' (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-03-25 13:14 -0700
Re: The integral type 'byte' (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-03-25 23:50 -0700
Re: The integral type 'byte' (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-03-26 10:33 +0100
Re: The integral type 'byte' (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-03-25 19:18 +0100
Re: The integral type 'byte' (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-03-25 18:50 +0000
Re: The integral type 'byte' (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-03-25 20:45 +0100
Re: The integral type 'byte' (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-03-25 23:30 +0000
Re: The integral type 'byte' (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-03-26 14:59 +0100
Re: The integral type 'byte' (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-03-26 11:29 +0100
Re: The integral type 'byte' (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-03-26 15:08 +0100
Re: The integral type 'byte' (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-03-26 17:50 +0100
Re: The integral type 'byte' (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-03-26 19:09 +0100
Re: The integral type 'byte' (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-03-26 21:39 +0100
Re: The integral type 'byte' (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-03-26 23:21 +0000
Re: The integral type 'byte' (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-03-26 23:51 +0000
Re: The integral type 'byte' (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-03-27 00:32 +0000
Re: The integral type 'byte' (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-03-27 13:51 +0000
Re: The integral type 'byte' (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-03-27 01:10 +0000
Re: The integral type 'byte' (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-03-27 01:33 +0000
Re: The integral type 'byte' (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-03-27 10:54 +0100
Re: The integral type 'byte' (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-03-27 14:09 +0000
Re: The integral type 'byte' (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-03-28 17:49 +0000
Re: The integral type 'byte' (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-03-27 14:07 +0000
Re: The integral type 'byte' (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-03-27 03:24 +0100
Re: The integral type 'byte' (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-03-27 11:14 +0000
Re: The integral type 'byte' (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-03-27 14:14 +0000
Re: The integral type 'byte' (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-03-28 02:05 +0100
Re: The integral type 'byte' (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-03-28 10:13 +0100
Re: The integral type 'byte' (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-03-28 11:22 +0100
Re: The integral type 'byte' (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-03-28 14:32 +0300
Re: The integral type 'byte' (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-03-28 13:42 +0100
Re: The integral type 'byte' (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-03-28 11:37 +0000
Re: The integral type 'byte' (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-03-28 13:53 +0100
Re: The integral type 'byte' (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-03-28 13:00 +0100
Re: The integral type 'byte' (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-03-28 14:06 +0100
Re: The integral type 'byte' (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-03-28 10:05 -0700
Re: The integral type 'byte' (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-03-28 12:19 +0000
[OT] PC hardware prices [correction] (was Re: The integral type 'byte') Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-03-31 21:35 +0200
Re: The integral type 'byte' (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-03-27 15:04 +0100
Re: The integral type 'byte' (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-03-28 02:59 +0100
Re: The integral type 'byte' (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-03-27 19:03 -0700
[OT] SPARC (was Re: The integral type 'byte') Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-03-28 03:26 +0100
Re: [OT] SPARC (was Re: The integral type 'byte') Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-03-27 23:14 -0700
Re: [OT] SPARC (was Re: The integral type 'byte') Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-03-28 13:26 +0300
Re: [OT] SPARC (was Re: The integral type 'byte') David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-03-28 13:08 +0100
Re: [OT] SPARC (was Re: The integral type 'byte') Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-03-28 15:20 +0300
Re: [OT] SPARC (was Re: The integral type 'byte') David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-03-28 15:33 +0100
Re: [OT] SPARC (was Re: The integral type 'byte') "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-03-28 10:26 -0700
Re: [OT] SPARC (was Re: The integral type 'byte') "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-03-28 10:27 -0700
Re: [OT] SPARC (was Re: The integral type 'byte') Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-03-28 18:44 +0000
Re: [OT] SPARC (was Re: The integral type 'byte') Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-03-28 17:46 +0000
Re: [OT] SPARC (was Re: The integral type 'byte') Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-03-28 17:45 +0000
Re: [OT] SPARC (was Re: The integral type 'byte') Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-03-28 13:20 +0100
Re: [OT] SPARC (was Re: The integral type 'byte') Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-03-28 15:56 +0300
Re: [OT] SPARC (was Re: The integral type 'byte') Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-03-28 14:20 +0100
Re: [OT] SPARC (was Re: The integral type 'byte') David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-03-28 15:43 +0100
Re: [OT] SPARC (was Re: The integral type 'byte') Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-03-28 17:54 +0000
Re: [OT] SPARC (was Re: The integral type 'byte') "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-03-28 10:16 -0700
Re: The integral type 'byte' (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-03-28 11:03 +0100
Re: The integral type 'byte' (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-03-28 14:01 +0300
Re: The integral type 'byte' (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-03-28 11:29 +0000
Re: The integral type 'byte' (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-03-28 12:46 +0100
Re: The integral type 'byte' (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-03-28 12:30 +0100
Re: The integral type 'byte' (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-03-26 11:10 +0100
Re: The integral type 'byte' (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) Richard Harnden <richard.nospam@gmail.invalid> - 2025-03-26 11:02 +0000
Re: The integral type 'byte' (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-03-26 12:47 +0100
Re: The integral type 'byte' (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-03-26 13:12 +0000
Re: The integral type 'byte' (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-03-26 14:48 +0100
Re: The integral type 'byte' (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-03-26 15:40 +0100
Re: The integral type 'byte' (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-03-26 18:29 +0000
Re: The integral type 'byte' (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-03-26 15:22 +0100
Re: The integral type 'byte' (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-03-26 13:09 -0700
Re: The integral type 'byte' (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-03-25 13:16 -0700
Re: The integral type 'byte' (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-03-26 11:33 +0100
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-03-20 12:22 -0700
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-03-20 12:10 -0700
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-03-20 20:59 +0000
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-03-20 16:18 -0700
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-03-20 23:55 +0000
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-03-21 00:46 +0000
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-03-21 01:23 +0000
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-03-20 18:47 -0700
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-03-21 11:53 +0000
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-03-21 12:04 -0700
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-03-22 00:23 +0000
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-03-21 20:50 -0700
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-03-22 13:06 +0000
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-03-22 14:51 -0700
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-03-22 14:52 -0700
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-03-23 01:34 +0000
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-03-23 10:50 +0200
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-03-23 11:25 +0000
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-03-23 14:12 +0200
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-03-24 12:51 +0100
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-03-24 14:07 +0000
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-03-24 15:32 +0100
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Muttley@DastardlyHQ.org - 2025-03-24 15:00 +0000
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-03-24 17:22 +0200
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Muttley@DastardlyHQ.org - 2025-03-24 16:12 +0000
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-03-24 16:02 +0000
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Muttley@DastardlyHQ.org - 2025-03-24 16:17 +0000
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-03-24 16:49 +0000
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Muttley@DastardlyHQ.org - 2025-03-24 16:56 +0000
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-03-24 18:20 +0000
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Muttley@DastardlyHQ.org - 2025-03-25 08:40 +0000
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-03-25 11:09 +0000
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Muttley@DastardlyHQ.org - 2025-03-25 14:46 +0000
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-03-25 15:04 +0000
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Muttley@DastardlyHQ.org - 2025-03-25 15:09 +0000
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-03-25 16:40 +0000
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Muttley@DastardlyHQ.org - 2025-03-26 09:20 +0000
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-03-26 10:07 +0000
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-03-26 18:06 +0000
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-03-27 00:22 +0000
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-03-27 14:22 +0000
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2025-03-27 10:54 -0700
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-03-28 16:13 +0000
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-03-28 16:40 +0000
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-03-28 20:41 +0000
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-03-28 22:18 +0000
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-03-28 15:33 -0700
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-03-28 22:48 +0000
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-03-28 16:53 -0700
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-03-29 00:32 +0000
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-03-28 18:50 -0700
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-03-29 16:24 +0000
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-03-29 13:37 +0100
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-03-29 16:33 +0000
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-03-29 17:23 +0000
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-03-29 18:11 +0000
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2025-03-28 10:57 -0700
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-03-25 16:16 +0000
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-03-25 13:29 +0200
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-03-25 14:58 +0000
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-03-25 17:14 +0200
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-03-25 16:37 +0000
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-03-25 19:00 +0200
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-03-24 17:15 +0000
Code-change-to-run times (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-03-24 18:44 +0100
Re: Code-change-to-run times (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-03-24 23:06 +0200
Re: Code-change-to-run times (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-03-24 23:44 +0100
Re: Code-change-to-run times (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-03-25 13:00 +0200
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-03-24 21:16 +0000
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Muttley@DastardlyHQ.org - 2025-03-25 08:41 +0000
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-03-25 11:04 +0000
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Muttley@DastardlyHQ.org - 2025-03-25 14:43 +0000
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-03-25 13:51 +0000
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-03-25 14:22 +0000
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-03-24 17:10 +0200
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-03-24 19:07 +0100
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-03-24 15:44 +0000
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-03-24 11:27 -0700
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-03-24 20:13 +0000
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-03-24 23:01 +0200
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-03-25 11:17 +0000
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-03-24 15:42 +0000
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-03-24 11:27 -0700
Compiler speed (ad nauseam) (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-03-24 18:01 +0100
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2025-03-24 19:25 -0400
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-03-25 00:53 +0000
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-03-24 19:00 -0700
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2025-03-24 21:50 -0700
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-03-25 08:19 +0100
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-03-22 14:41 +0100
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-03-23 11:41 +0200
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-03-23 14:13 -0700
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-03-23 23:19 +0200
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2025-03-22 07:05 -0700
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-03-22 02:37 +0000
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-03-22 12:20 +0000
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-03-22 13:50 +0000
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-03-22 15:47 +0000
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-03-22 17:00 +0000
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-03-22 15:31 -0700
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-03-21 17:51 +0000
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-03-21 18:51 +0000
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-03-22 02:16 +0000
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-03-22 04:15 +0000
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-03-21 21:24 -0700
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-03-22 14:07 +0000
Fast division (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-03-26 02:04 +0100
Re: Fast division (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2025-03-25 22:35 -0400
Re: Fast division (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-03-26 12:40 +0100
Re: Fast division (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-03-26 14:47 +0100
Re: Fast division (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-03-26 17:55 +0100
Re: Fast division (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-03-26 19:36 +0200
Re: Fast division (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-03-26 13:44 +0000
Re: Fast division (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-03-26 16:19 +0100
Re: Fast division (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-03-26 02:37 +0000
Re: Fast division (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-03-26 14:42 +0100
Re: Fast division (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) Rosario19 <Ros@invalid.invalid> - 2025-03-26 19:01 +0100
Re: Fast division (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-03-26 18:49 +0000
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-03-22 00:01 +0000
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-03-22 01:41 +0000
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-03-22 14:22 +0000
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-03-22 14:32 +0000
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-03-22 16:25 +0000
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-03-20 16:35 +0200
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Muttley@DastardlyHQ.org - 2025-03-20 14:42 +0000
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-03-20 16:20 +0000
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2025-03-20 11:33 -0700
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-03-20 12:07 -0700
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2025-03-19 12:59 -0700
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-03-19 22:12 +0200
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2025-03-20 05:19 -0700
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-03-18 20:26 -0700
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2025-03-19 00:42 -0400
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-03-19 04:51 +0000
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2025-03-19 01:02 -0400
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-03-19 05:23 +0000
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2025-03-20 06:06 -0700
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-03-20 13:27 +0000
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-03-20 16:50 +0200
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2025-03-20 11:24 -0700
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-03-20 18:53 +0000
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2025-03-20 16:56 -0700
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2025-03-22 16:46 -0700
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-03-23 08:25 +0000
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-03-23 12:06 +0200
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-03-23 10:15 +0000
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2025-03-23 12:35 -0700
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-03-24 13:09 +0100
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Peter 'Shaggy' Haywood <phaywood@alphalink.com.au> - 2025-03-22 19:07 +1100
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-03-22 13:25 +0000
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-03-22 19:12 +0200
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-03-22 19:17 +0200
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-03-22 17:22 +0000
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2025-03-22 10:29 -0400
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Peter 'Shaggy' Haywood <phaywood@alphalink.com.au> - 2025-03-25 21:41 +1100
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-03-22 14:30 +0000
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2025-03-22 11:31 -0400
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-03-22 19:19 +0200
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-03-22 14:54 -0700
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Ike Naar <ike@sdf.org> - 2025-03-19 07:16 +0000
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-03-19 01:53 -0700
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2025-03-19 16:45 -0400
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-03-19 21:21 +0000
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-03-19 21:35 +0000
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-03-19 14:56 -0700
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2025-03-19 22:34 -0400
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-03-19 19:46 -0700
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2025-03-19 11:25 -0400
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-03-19 10:15 +0000
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-03-19 12:40 +0200
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-03-19 17:42 +0100
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2025-03-19 09:03 -0400
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Muttley@DastardlyHQ.org - 2025-03-19 14:40 +0000
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-03-19 17:39 +0200
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Muttley@DastardlyHQ.org - 2025-03-19 15:42 +0000
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Alexis <flexibeast@gmail.com> - 2025-03-22 15:05 +1100
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Muttley@DastardlyHQ.org - 2025-03-22 10:19 +0000
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Alexis <flexibeast@gmail.com> - 2025-03-23 11:05 +1100
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2025-03-23 16:22 +0000
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2025-03-19 13:13 -0700
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Muttley@DastardlyHQ.org - 2025-03-20 09:50 +0000
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2025-03-20 04:59 -0700
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-03-20 16:14 +0000
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Muttley@DastardlyHQ.org - 2025-03-20 16:29 +0000
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-03-20 16:49 +0000
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Muttley@DastardlyHQ.org - 2025-03-21 09:09 +0000
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-03-21 17:12 +0000
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-03-19 12:36 +0200
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2025-03-19 09:13 -0400
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2025-03-20 05:15 -0700
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-03-20 12:14 -0700
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2025-03-21 00:05 -0700
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-03-21 07:48 +0000
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2025-03-22 13:32 -0500
Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program? DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2025-03-23 12:29 -0400
Page 10 of 22 — ← Prev page 1 … 8 9 [10] 11 12 … 22 Next page →
| From | David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-03-28 10:13 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: The integral type 'byte' (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) |
| Message-ID | <vs5p85$2cucj$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #391743 |
On 28/03/2025 02:05, Janis Papanagnou wrote: > On 27.03.2025 12:14, bart wrote: >> On 27/03/2025 02:24, Janis Papanagnou wrote: >> >> Also, by a 'few KB' I meant single figures, like 2-8KB for the code, >> plus RAM. That Atari seems to have a bit more available. > > Yes, I was comparing it with the "standard" IBM PC (which had 640 kB) > and the Atari ST had first (I think) 500 kB (mine, a later version, > had 1 MB). So you are talking about a completely different world. You are criticising machines of the class of ZX Spectrum, with 8-bit processors and 4KB - 32KB rom and ram, for using BASIC - and justifying it by telling us what you used on a a system more than an order of magnitude bigger? As a few other points relating to things you have been talking about - the original IBM PC had 32 KB rom with BASIC, and typical systems had 64 KB ram, not 640 KB. (Of course later models and clones had more ram.) And the Atari ST came with BASIC, and had a 68000 processor. It is odd that you had that machine (which, alongside the Commodore Amiga, was widely and rightly considered fantastic machine, hardware and software), while also ridiculing two of its most important features. > You are right to point out that some BASIC interpreters were provided > in a ROM. I don't recall the ROM sizes of all the PCs I used back then, > but I remember the Sharp PC 1401 pocket calculator that had 40 kB ROM > for the OS with BASIC. > >> >> I've never used Basic. But it is one language I admire, even if it is >> crude: >> >> 10 let a=0 >> 20 let a=a+1 >> 30 if a<1000000 then 20 >> 40 print a > > Okay, you "admire" BASIC (and you found the 68000 CPU "wonderful"); > that tells a lot about your background and expertise. > BASIC was an excellent language for the time, and for the resources available on these small systems. It's a poor choice for larger programs, but that's not an issue for small systems. You are the first person I have heard say that the 68000 was /not/ a great design - both in terms of the ISA and the implementation. > > Try for a moment to understand that the quality of a CPU architecture is > not (for assembler programmers) something measured in transistors. > > There's huge differences in processor _architectures_, though... > When you talk in general about a processor design, it includes /both/ the hardware design (for which transistor count is a factor) /and/ the ISA, as seen by programmers. But it is fine, and often helpful, to separate these aspects. So is it the ISA of the m68k that you don't like? Given the massive popularity of the architecture (you can /still/ buy 68000 chips, and /new/ devices based on the m68k ISA were developed and released until about 10 years ago), it seems a minority opinion. I've yet to see an ISA that I think is "perfect", and popularity of use does not imply technical quality, but the m68k stands out as extraordinarily good, especially compared to other ISA's of the time. >> >>>> >>>> But also at that time - early 80s when Spectrums etc were popular - >>>> there were some wonderful new 16/32-bit processors such as 68000, >>>> Z8000/0 and NS32032, of which only the first survived. > > If you mention 68000 and NS32032 playing in the same architectural > league then it's hard for me to consider you a serious discussion > partner. > Indeed. After all, the 68k was one of the most successful ISAs ever, and the x86 "won" for economic reasons, not technical reasons. The NS32000, on the other hand, is known only to a few nerds. I expect a large proportion of people in this newsgroup have had computers or devices with an 68k chip in them - Unix workstations, Apple Macs, games consoles, Wifi routers or network switches, Palm PDAs, calculators, printers - they were everywhere. To be fair on the NS32000, I don't think the ISA was the problem for the devices. After all, the ISA was very similar to that of the 68k, albeit a bit more limited. Both were multi-register orthogonal CISC (as distinct from accumulator and specialised register CISC, like the x86) with 8 32-bit general registers and a range of addressing modes including direct memory operations. Both had linear addressing spaces and floating point coprocessors.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-03-28 11:22 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: The integral type 'byte' (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) |
| Message-ID | <vs5ta3$2hbcf$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #391748 |
On 28.03.2025 10:13, David Brown wrote: > [...] David, you are not writing anything here that wasn't already addressed by me or others before, so we can skip that. (And possibly agree to disagree.) >> [ NS32032 ] > > Indeed. After all, the 68k was one of the most successful ISAs ever, > and the x86 "won" for economic reasons, not technical reasons. The > NS32000, on the other hand, is known only to a few nerds. [...] Given that it did not "survive" in the first place I was astonished that when I spoke with IT professionals in the past it was mentioned as outstanding (compared to a lot of other alternatives these days). I was also astonished that bart had it in his short-list. So I'm not inclined to accept your words that it's "known only to a few nerds". (It's not necessarily the best technologies that "survive".) YMMV. Janis
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-03-28 14:32 +0300 |
| Subject | Re: The integral type 'byte' (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) |
| Message-ID | <20250328143230.00004ecc@yahoo.com> |
| In reply to | #391750 |
On Fri, 28 Mar 2025 11:22:58 +0100 Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> wrote: > On 28.03.2025 10:13, David Brown wrote: > > [...] > > David, you are not writing anything here that wasn't already addressed > by me or others before, so we can skip that. (And possibly agree to > disagree.) > > >> [ NS32032 ] > > > > Indeed. After all, the 68k was one of the most successful ISAs > > ever, and the x86 "won" for economic reasons, not technical > > reasons. The NS32000, on the other hand, is known only to a few > > nerds. [...] > > Given that it did not "survive" in the first place I was astonished > that when I spoke with IT professionals in the past it was mentioned > as outstanding (compared to a lot of other alternatives these days). > I was also astonished that bart had it in his short-list. So I'm not > inclined to accept your words that it's "known only to a few nerds". > (It's not necessarily the best technologies that "survive".) YMMV. > > Janis > I did a project with NS32K offspring somewhere around 1993-1994. At that time NS lost all ambitions of selling 32K into lucrative PC/workstation market. The chip in question was cheap "embedded microprocessor" that competed with Intel i960, AMD 29K and Moto 68300 primarily on price. I did not make a wide research of available parts, back then it was not my job. But my educated guess would be that the part I used and which exact number I don't remember was one of the cheapest 32-bit embedded CPUs of the time and one of the slowest if not The Slowest. For us it didn't matter. What mattered was ability to address plenty of so called ARAM. (a DRAM sold for fraction of normal DRAM price because it had small number of defective cells, intended primarily for audio applications). Since performance didn't matter, I had no reasons to learn details of CPU architecture. It was a side project, most of my time I was doing other things. So I managed to complete a job without knowing much about NS32 ISA. And of course since then I forgot even a little that I had to know about it. Later on, on web, nearly all mentions of NS32K I encountered were in context of examples of extreme CISC. I.e. MUCH CISCier than x86, significantly CISCier than even such rather heavy CISCs as VAX and MC68020. Of course, not quite complicated as Intel iAPX 432. So, it seems, it is remembered, but not in a good way.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-03-28 13:42 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: The integral type 'byte' (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) |
| Message-ID | <vs65g3$2p0ph$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #391755 |
On 28.03.2025 12:32, Michael S wrote: > [...] > > Later on, on web, nearly all mentions of NS32K I encountered were in > context of examples of extreme CISC. I.e. MUCH CISCier than x86, > significantly CISCier than even such rather heavy CISCs as VAX and > MC68020. Of course, not quite complicated as Intel iAPX 432. So, it > seems, it is remembered, but not in a good way. To me the NS beast didn't appear to be that "extreme" (rather more "consistent" or "orthogonal" and the like). Especially if I compare it to CPUs like the SC 61860 (in an 8 bit pocket calculator) which back these days supported (on CPU level) even a 'case' construct! It had been an undocumented CPU command (at least in the available sources I used) but upon analyzing the OS in ROM I discovered it being used and inferred its operational semantics from the context. This is what I'd call "extreme CISC". :-) But many years passed and I'd suppose things changed a lot recently. Janis
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | bart <bc@freeuk.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-03-28 11:37 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: The integral type 'byte' (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) |
| Message-ID | <vs61l0$2k3g4$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #391750 |
On 28/03/2025 10:22, Janis Papanagnou wrote: > On 28.03.2025 10:13, David Brown wrote: >> [...] > > David, you are not writing anything here that wasn't already addressed > by me or others before, so we can skip that. (And possibly agree to > disagree.) > >>> [ NS32032 ] >> >> Indeed. After all, the 68k was one of the most successful ISAs ever, >> and the x86 "won" for economic reasons, not technical reasons. The >> NS32000, on the other hand, is known only to a few nerds. [...] > > Given that it did not "survive" in the first place I was astonished > that when I spoke with IT professionals in the past it was mentioned > as outstanding (compared to a lot of other alternatives these days). > I was also astonished that bart had it in his short-list. You are astonished that I'd heard of it? Did I mention that I was a hardware engineer at that time?
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-03-28 13:53 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: The integral type 'byte' (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) |
| Message-ID | <vs664b$2phda$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #391756 |
On 28.03.2025 12:37, bart wrote: > On 28/03/2025 10:22, Janis Papanagnou wrote: >> >>>> [ NS32032 ] >>> >>> Indeed. After all, the 68k was one of the most successful ISAs ever, >>> and the x86 "won" for economic reasons, not technical reasons. The >>> NS32000, on the other hand, is known only to a few nerds. [...] >> >> Given that it did not "survive" in the first place I was astonished >> that when I spoke with IT professionals in the past it was mentioned >> as outstanding (compared to a lot of other alternatives these days). >> I was also astonished that bart had it in his short-list. > > You are astonished that I'd heard of it? It wasn't meant personally; I was also astonished when I spoke with another IT professional, as said. My astonishment stems from the fact that everyone in the IT scene was speaking primarily about the Intel CPUs, then about the Intel "clones", but rarely about other architectures, let alone about "vanished" CPU variants like the NS. (This is of course just a personal observation from where I lived and worked; it may have been different in your vicinity.) > > Did I mention that I was a hardware engineer at that time? As said and explained above, it was not meant personal, less meant as disregarding your profession or engagement in any way. (What I *was* astonished about was that you valued the two mentioned processors the same. But I suppose we both can live with that.) Janis
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-03-28 13:00 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: The integral type 'byte' (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) |
| Message-ID | <vs630c$2m8r2$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #391750 |
On 28/03/2025 11:22, Janis Papanagnou wrote: > On 28.03.2025 10:13, David Brown wrote: >> [...] > >>> [ NS32032 ] >> >> Indeed. After all, the 68k was one of the most successful ISAs ever, >> and the x86 "won" for economic reasons, not technical reasons. The >> NS32000, on the other hand, is known only to a few nerds. [...] > > Given that it did not "survive" in the first place I was astonished > that when I spoke with IT professionals in the past it was mentioned > as outstanding (compared to a lot of other alternatives these days). The 68k was outstanding. The NS32000 had a lot of similarities to the 68k. Therefore, compared to a lot of /other/ architectures around, it too was outstanding. Compared to the 68k, however, it was nothing special - no doubt there were some pros and some cons. > I was also astonished that bart had it in his short-list. So I'm not > inclined to accept your words that it's "known only to a few nerds". > (It's not necessarily the best technologies that "survive".) YMMV. > Bart is a nerd of rare quality. (I mean that in a good way.) It does not surprise me that he is familiar with it. Remember that while the NS32000 died away fairly quickly, when it was around it was a reasonably well-known alternative to the bigger names. Someone looking for a powerful cpu and not burdened by compatibility restraints, could just as well have picked it rather than a 68k device. At that time, no one knew it would die away from the scene. So people involved in designing computer equipment at that time - such as Bart - would know of it and may well have used it.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-03-28 14:06 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: The integral type 'byte' (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) |
| Message-ID | <vs66tb$2q5fn$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #391758 |
On 28.03.2025 13:00, David Brown wrote: > On 28/03/2025 11:22, Janis Papanagnou wrote: >> >> I was also astonished that bart had it in his short-list. So I'm not >> inclined to accept your words that it's "known only to a few nerds". >> (It's not necessarily the best technologies that "survive".) YMMV. > > Bart is a nerd of rare quality. (I mean that in a good way.) It does > not surprise me that he is familiar with it. He's not the only one I met, as said; an IT-competent friend of mine (origin in Australia, so it's no "local effect") also knew it and perceived that CPU as one with a very interesting architecture. Bart's engagement, OTOH, (as I perceived it from his posts) appeared to me to have a comparably narrow focus. And I didn't know (or forgot) that he was a "hardware engineer" as he mentioned/stressed recently. Given the short lifetime of the NS CPU it's likely nonetheless an (at least now) rarely known thing. Janis > [...]
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-03-28 10:05 -0700 |
| Subject | Re: The integral type 'byte' (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) |
| Message-ID | <vs6ks1$35a2q$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #391748 |
On 3/28/2025 2:13 AM, David Brown wrote: > On 28/03/2025 02:05, Janis Papanagnou wrote: >> On 27.03.2025 12:14, bart wrote: >>> On 27/03/2025 02:24, Janis Papanagnou wrote: > >>> >>> Also, by a 'few KB' I meant single figures, like 2-8KB for the code, >>> plus RAM. That Atari seems to have a bit more available. >> >> Yes, I was comparing it with the "standard" IBM PC (which had 640 kB) >> and the Atari ST had first (I think) 500 kB (mine, a later version, >> had 1 MB). > > So you are talking about a completely different world. You are > criticising machines of the class of ZX Spectrum, with 8-bit processors > and 4KB - 32KB rom and ram, for using BASIC - and justifying it by > telling us what you used on a a system more than an order of magnitude > bigger? [...] FWIW, BASIC was my first programming language. Then PEEK and POKE got me into assembly language. ;^)
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | bart <bc@freeuk.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-03-28 12:19 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: The integral type 'byte' (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) |
| Message-ID | <vs643t$2nm0e$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #391743 |
On 28/03/2025 01:05, Janis Papanagnou wrote:
> On 27.03.2025 12:14, bart wrote:
>> On 27/03/2025 02:24, Janis Papanagnou wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm speaking about all that inferior systems that had a comparably
>>> high price without a matching quality. And about years and years
>>> passing without vendors of such products changing that situation.
>>
>> I guess ... you're talking about either the IBM PC hardware or MS
>> software, or both? (Although PCs weren't expensive.)
>
> Here PCs were expensive; a friend of mine bought one for ~8000 DM,
> IIRC, (compare that to 2000 DM for a Commodire PET; even the first
> Apple was expensive but not that expensive as the IBM PC).
There were inexpensive compared to traditional computer systems. So
small businesses could afford them and later people used them as home
computers.
Competition in the form of clones brought down the price. (My company
toyed with making our own clone, but we moved out of making computers
ourselves.)
>> I've never used Basic. But it is one language I admire, even if it is
>> crude:
>>
>> 10 let a=0
>> 20 let a=a+1
>> 30 if a<1000000 then 20
>> 40 print a
>
> Okay, you "admire" BASIC (and you found the 68000 CPU "wonderful");
> that tells a lot about your background and expertise.
What does it tell you, that I'm not as stuck-up as you are?
I admired Basic for its simplicity and accessibility.
(Actually, the first time I ever tried making a toy interpreter, it was
cabable of running pretty much that program, but with a smaller limit.
Written in Fortran and running on a PDP11, it managed 500 iterations per
second IIRC.
My latest interpreter, not for Basic, can manage 400M iterations per
second.)
> I seem to recall that elsewhere in the thread you were mentioning the
> number of transistors - I understood that as if you take that being
> an indication for a complexity, non-triviality, not being "primitive".
> If that is a correct interpretation of your argument I'd like to
> suggest considering that the number of molecules (necessary to build
> up these ~8000 transistors) is even larger.
>
> Try for a moment to understand that the quality of a CPU architecture is
> not (for assembler programmers) something measured in transistors.
I've used discrete transistors, and discrete logic gates (where you got
4 gates in one chip). So I can imagine those as practical building blocks.
There are so many transistors to one gate. And there are so many gates
needed to create a single bit of register storage. You can see that 8000
or 8500 transistors can quickly get used up!
So my point is that these CPUs being 'primitive' can be excused to some
extent.
> If you mention 68000 and NS32032 playing in the same architectural
> league then it's hard for me to consider you a serious discussion
> partner.
You haven't revealed what exactly is the gulf between them. You've
vaguely quoted elsewhere what somebody once told you.
So it's hard for me to consider /you/ as someone who knows what they're
talking about.
> I won't discuss the details of CPU architectures with you here; but
> if you're really interested I suggest to inspect those two processors
> more thoroughly - there's papers and documents available online.
OK, but that won't tell me why /you/ think X is better than Y.
>>> [...]
>>>
>>> But that all was long ago and is meaningless today.
>>
>> I find I can learn a lot from how simple things were that long ago. The
>> early 80s was the golden age for that, getting away from mainframes and
>> complex OSes, to much more informal systems. Now it's worse than ever.
>
> I'm not able two bring your two sentences together. - What is worse?
> Do you mean to qualify it as: mainframe era: bad, 1980's era: good,
> nowadays: bad again. - Is that what you wanted to say?
I'll give an analogy: going from working from a company, to becoming
self-employed, to working for a company again which is now a
mega-corporation.
Where do think an individual would get the most freedom?
> Lets say I have some background to separate the wheat from the chaff.
So I don't have any background? Building systems at the chip level, and
building the software, the tools, the languages /and/ their
implementations out of nothing doesn't give me any perspective?
But you do. OK.
> ("IT" means "information technology"; a common superordinate term to
> not enumerate all the subareas separately. - I'm sure you know that.)
I now what it stands for. An umbrella term used to wrap layers of
obfuscation and gratuitous complexity around computer systems, so as to
be able to make lots more money compared to keeping things simple and
transparent.
(There was a famous IT project in the UK to provide a computer system
for its health service, where the government spent £12,000,000,000
before it was scrapped as it didn't work.
There was also the infamous 'track and trace' in 2020, which reportedly
cost £37 billion, but that figure is disputed.
This is 'IT')
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-03-31 21:35 +0200 |
| Subject | [OT] PC hardware prices [correction] (was Re: The integral type 'byte') |
| Message-ID | <vseqpe$13c73$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #391743 |
On 28.03.2025 02:05, Janis Papanagnou wrote: > On 27.03.2025 12:14, bart wrote: >> On 27/03/2025 02:24, Janis Papanagnou wrote: >>> >>> I'm speaking about all that inferior systems that had a comparably >>> high price without a matching quality. And about years and years >>> passing without vendors of such products changing that situation. >> >> I guess ... you're talking about either the IBM PC hardware or MS >> software, or both? (Although PCs weren't expensive.) > > Here PCs were expensive; a friend of mine bought one for ~8000 DM, > IIRC, (compare that to 2000 DM for a Commodore PET; even the first > Apple was expensive but not that expensive as the IBM PC). Upon reconsideration it appeared to me that the price estimates do not reflect their _original_ price. It was ~3000 DM for the PET and ~12000 DM for the IBM XT. (Although prices rapidly dropped after the first years of their release, as I've just verified; that's were my "2000 DM" memories stems from). - So they were actually even *more* expensive (and rarely commonly affordable). - That doesn't change my point (rather it supports it yet more), but I wanted the numbers to get fixed. Janis > [...]
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-03-27 15:04 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: The integral type 'byte' (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) |
| Message-ID | <vs3lu9$di1m$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #391728 |
On 27/03/2025 03:24, Janis Papanagnou wrote: > On 27.03.2025 00:21, bart wrote: >> On 26/03/2025 18:09, Janis Papanagnou wrote: > [...] >> >> I had no interest whatsover in operating systems. I did fine without one >> to start with, while CP/M (our rip-off of it) and DOS provided a file >> system and a way to launch programs; what else was there? >> >>> languages like BASIC >> >> What language would you have advocated that could fit into a few KB, and >> that could run without a proper file system? > > The first that comes to mind was (for example) Pascal. It actually > became available on several platforms. But it was not comparable > to the omnipresent [lousy] BASIC that was inherent part of the OS > in the ROM. (Well, or on a 8" floppy; e.g. in case of the Olivetti > P6060.) There were other languages available; someone (maybe David) > mentioned some upthread. Myself I bought a Simula compiler for my > Atari ST. Simula is a powerful and comparably huge language, so your > "few KB" excuse is not convincing. > Many of the BASIC's on home computers were quite sophisticated - the BBC Micro (and later Archimedes) versions were famously advanced. Of course versions for things like the ZX80 - with 4 KB rom, and 1 KB ram (for screen memory, OS data, interpreter data, BASIC program, and BASIC data) were very limited. Pascal would have been hopeless on such systems. A compiled - or even byte-compiled (such as P-code) - language would be totally out of the question. A minimal Pascal implementation, such as existed for the BBC Micros and the ZX Spectrum, needed more in the range of 16 K rom / program and the same again of ram for source code, compiled / byte-compiled code, and program data. Remember, these systems did not have the resources you are talking about. The Atari ST was a monster compared to the popular home computers - 512 KB ram on the cheapest version, compared to more typical 16 KB - 32 KB ranges. And it had a price to match, way out of reach of most home users. There are only two high level languages that have had any kind of success on such small systems - BASIC (or variants thereof, as there is no single standard "BASIC" language) and Forth. > I think it was a professor at the university who meant that anyone > who started with BASIC would be incapable of ever doing real CS. It was Dijkstra who said that. As usual, his comments were entertainingly exaggerated when made, and then taken out of context. > This is of course nonsense! (And such arguments say more about the > person formulating such non-arguments. - I recall a similar nonsense > mentioned here by someone some months ago concerning OO and Simula > and all other OO languages that took their OO concepts from Simula.) > > The point with BASIC is that if all you know is BASIC without knowing > anything else you probably won't be able to understand the problems > with it. I know you have a broader language repertoire, so I presume > you know BASIC's deficiencies (or at least the deficiencies of those > BASIC dialects that were around until around 1980). > That was not Dijstra's point at all - it was the "trial and error" attitude to programming that you got from interpreted languages that he disliked. However, your point /is/ still valid - people who are only familiar with one programming language will have difficulty understanding its limitations or seeing the benefits of other languages, and tend to look at problems from a perspective limited by their own language. >> >> But also at that time - early 80s when Spectrums etc were popular - >> there were some wonderful new 16/32-bit processors such as 68000, >> Z8000/0 and NS32032, of which only the first survived. > > I've had contact with a couple CPUs back these days; 6502 (6510), > 68000, 8080 (Z80), another Intel thing where I forgot the number, > SC 61860, TMS 320 C25. And I read about (but not programmed) a > couple more (the SPARC, one from National Semiconductors) where > I forgot the model numbers. > > The 68000, specifically, is a great example for an inferior CPU > architecture. (Your mileage obviously varies if you think it was > even "wonderful".) What do you think is "inferior" about the 68k architecture? At the time, the main business-world competitor, the 8086, was 8-bit with some 16-bit features, and built with a view towards backwards compatibility rather than the future. The 68k had a 32-bit ISA with a 16-bit ALU - looking towards the 32-bit future while accepting that it had to be cost-effective. > > CPU architectures that I found to be more interesting were SPARC, > the National Semiconductor thing (NS 32016 maybe? nor sure), and > the TMS DSP (where I spent quite some time with), for example. > SPARC certainly had some interesting features and concepts. (I never used it, but read a fair bit about it, and briefly used the Altera NIOS soft core that had some similarities.) The TMS320C24x DSPs I used were utterly horrible. > But that all was long ago and is meaningless today. Personally > I've occasionally programmed in assembler around 1980-1990, and > you can imagine that I don't care much about that topic anymore. > >> >> Their architecture is not that different from current machines. > > That would be bad news. And I have my doubts that this is true. > (But as said, I don't care much anymore.) > > It's interesting to still see advocates of inferior IT justifying > bad paragons, though. The situation has not changed. - Have fun! > There are plenty of things I find disappointingly similar between most cpu architectures. It's hard for novel ideas to break through. Part of the blame for that, of course, is the success of C - a cpu design tends to be successful if and only if it is efficient for the C model of programming, other than for a few specialised areas (like graphics work or some highly SIMD-friendly algorithms). I'd like to see cpu designs with multiple stacks, multiple register banks for fast task switching, hardware support for multi-tasking, locks, atomic accesses, transactional memory, CSP-style message passing, memory allocation, buffer management, etc. There are countless bits and pieces that could make processors much faster and much more secure for a lot of work. The XMOS devices are one of the few architectures to come up with really new ideas and have some market success.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-03-28 02:59 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: The integral type 'byte' (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) |
| Message-ID | <vs4vqf$1jono$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #391733 |
On 27.03.2025 15:04, David Brown wrote:
> On 27/03/2025 03:24, Janis Papanagnou wrote:
>> On 27.03.2025 00:21, bart wrote:
>>> On 26/03/2025 18:09, Janis Papanagnou wrote:
>> [...]
>
> Many of the BASIC's on home computers were quite sophisticated - the BBC
> Micro (and later Archimedes) versions were famously advanced. Of course
> versions for things like the ZX80 - with 4 KB rom, and 1 KB ram (for
> screen memory, OS data, interpreter data, BASIC program, and BASIC data)
> were very limited.
I've programmed with a couple BASIC dialects back these days; besides
the mainframe thing; Olivetti, Wang, Commodore, Sharp. As seen from a
big picture, they all were basically the same crude thing. Only few
years later; Algol 68, Pascal, Simula, C, Fortran (half a step back),
C++, Java, and so on. Each of these languages was a progress compared
to BASIC (even Fortran, that I disliked as well).
>
> Pascal would have been hopeless on such systems. A compiled - or even
> byte-compiled (such as P-code) - language would be totally out of the
> question. A minimal Pascal implementation, such as existed for the BBC
> Micros and the ZX Spectrum, needed more in the range of 16 K rom /
> program and the same again of ram for source code, compiled /
> byte-compiled code, and program data.
I seem to recall that there were Pascal compilers available for a
couple of those old PC systems.
Anyway, I perceived the use of anything else than BASIC a challenge
on such systems; it seemed they were designed to just provide BASIC.
>
> Remember, these systems did not have the resources you are talking
> about. The Atari ST was a monster compared to the popular home
> computers - 512 KB ram on the cheapest version, compared to more typical
> 16 KB - 32 KB ranges. And it had a price to match, way out of reach of
> most home users.
Yes. I compared it to the 640 kB of the ("quasi-standard") IBM PC.
> [...]
>
>> I think it was a professor at the university who meant that anyone
>> who started with BASIC would be incapable of ever doing real CS.
>
> It was Dijkstra who said that. As usual, his comments were
> entertainingly exaggerated when made, and then taken out of context.
No, I meant another professor whose lectures I attended at our
University. - It could of course be that he was just citing Dijkstra,
but he didn't sound as if he did; it was certainly his strong opinion.
>
>> [...]
>>
>> The point with BASIC is that if all you know is BASIC without knowing
>> anything else you probably won't be able to understand the problems
>> with it. I know you have a broader language repertoire, so I presume
>> you know BASIC's deficiencies (or at least the deficiencies of those
>> BASIC dialects that were around until around 1980).
>
> That was not Dijstra's point at all - it was the "trial and error"
> attitude to programming that you got from interpreted languages that he
> disliked.
As said, I wasn't attributing that to Dijkstra but a local professor.
And the argument was not about interpreters but more about lacking
structuring features, hard coded line numbers, gotos, and a lot more
the like.
> However, your point /is/ still valid - people who are only
> familiar with one programming language will have difficulty
> understanding its limitations or seeing the benefits of other languages,
> and tend to look at problems from a perspective limited by their own
> language.
Yes, this is actually a platitude (and I was reluctant to mention it
in the first place), but a general phenomenon, not restricted to IT.
> [...]
>>
>> The 68000, specifically, is a great example for an inferior CPU
>> architecture. (Your mileage obviously varies if you think it was
>> even "wonderful".)
>
> What do you think is "inferior" about the 68k architecture? At the
> time, the main business-world competitor, the 8086, was 8-bit with some
> 16-bit features, and built with a view towards backwards compatibility
> rather than the future. The 68k had a 32-bit ISA with a 16-bit ALU -
> looking towards the 32-bit future while accepting that it had to be
> cost-effective.
I wouldn't compare it to the x86 series - my opinion on that is not
much different to the 68k. Have a look at the NS 32016/32 processors
(around 1979/1984). If you know the 68k but not the NS 32xxx you may
want to have a look into, e.g., "1986_National_NS32000_Databook.pdf"
(that you will find online).
>> [...]
>
> SPARC certainly had some interesting features and concepts. (I never
> used it, but read a fair bit about it, and briefly used the Altera NIOS
> soft core that had some similarities.) The TMS320C24x DSPs I used were
> utterly horrible.
I used it for the implementation of a channel encoding system, a
typical "signal processing" application; it was great. Imagining
I would have to use any other processor I already knew these days
(65xx, 68k, x86)... - that would have been really annoying.
>> [...]
>
> There are plenty of things I find disappointingly similar between most
> cpu architectures. It's hard for novel ideas to break through.
But there were ideas! But not only the interesting ideas (like the
frame shift on the stack [SPARC]; one detail I memorized) should have
been considered, also (e.g.) support of addressing data structures as
known from (back then) contemporary languages; the NS 32xxx supported
that for example. And these ideas were already old; see for example
Seegmüller: Einführung in die Systemprogrammierung (1974)
(And I would be surprised if he'd been the first who described that.)
But yes, the "break through" factors (e.g. the market factors) were
an issue.
> Part of
> the blame for that, of course, is the success of C - a cpu design tends
> to be successful if and only if it is efficient for the C model of
> programming, other than for a few specialised areas (like graphics work
> or some highly SIMD-friendly algorithms). I'd like to see cpu designs
> with multiple stacks, multiple register banks for fast task switching,
> hardware support for multi-tasking, locks, atomic accesses,
> transactional memory, CSP-style message passing, memory allocation,
> buffer management, etc. There are countless bits and pieces that could
> make processors much faster and much more secure for a lot of work.
>
> The XMOS devices are one of the few architectures to come up with really
> new ideas and have some market success.
For a long time now I'm not up to date any more with CPUs and their
architectural differences.
Janis
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-03-27 19:03 -0700 |
| Subject | Re: The integral type 'byte' (was Re: Suggested method for returning a string from a C program?) |
| Message-ID | <vs502d$1jq5h$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #391744 |
On 3/27/2025 6:59 PM, Janis Papanagnou wrote:
> On 27.03.2025 15:04, David Brown wrote:
>> On 27/03/2025 03:24, Janis Papanagnou wrote:
>>> On 27.03.2025 00:21, bart wrote:
>>>> On 26/03/2025 18:09, Janis Papanagnou wrote:
>>> [...]
>>
>> Many of the BASIC's on home computers were quite sophisticated - the BBC
>> Micro (and later Archimedes) versions were famously advanced. Of course
>> versions for things like the ZX80 - with 4 KB rom, and 1 KB ram (for
>> screen memory, OS data, interpreter data, BASIC program, and BASIC data)
>> were very limited.
>
> I've programmed with a couple BASIC dialects back these days; besides
> the mainframe thing; Olivetti, Wang, Commodore, Sharp. As seen from a
> big picture, they all were basically the same crude thing. Only few
> years later; Algol 68, Pascal, Simula, C, Fortran (half a step back),
> C++, Java, and so on. Each of these languages was a progress compared
> to BASIC (even Fortran, that I disliked as well).
>
>>
>> Pascal would have been hopeless on such systems. A compiled - or even
>> byte-compiled (such as P-code) - language would be totally out of the
>> question. A minimal Pascal implementation, such as existed for the BBC
>> Micros and the ZX Spectrum, needed more in the range of 16 K rom /
>> program and the same again of ram for source code, compiled /
>> byte-compiled code, and program data.
>
> I seem to recall that there were Pascal compilers available for a
> couple of those old PC systems.
>
> Anyway, I perceived the use of anything else than BASIC a challenge
> on such systems; it seemed they were designed to just provide BASIC.
>
>>
>> Remember, these systems did not have the resources you are talking
>> about. The Atari ST was a monster compared to the popular home
>> computers - 512 KB ram on the cheapest version, compared to more typical
>> 16 KB - 32 KB ranges. And it had a price to match, way out of reach of
>> most home users.
>
> Yes. I compared it to the 640 kB of the ("quasi-standard") IBM PC.
>
>> [...]
>>
>>> I think it was a professor at the university who meant that anyone
>>> who started with BASIC would be incapable of ever doing real CS.
>>
>> It was Dijkstra who said that. As usual, his comments were
>> entertainingly exaggerated when made, and then taken out of context.
>
> No, I meant another professor whose lectures I attended at our
> University. - It could of course be that he was just citing Dijkstra,
> but he didn't sound as if he did; it was certainly his strong opinion.
>
>>
>>> [...]
>>>
>>> The point with BASIC is that if all you know is BASIC without knowing
>>> anything else you probably won't be able to understand the problems
>>> with it. I know you have a broader language repertoire, so I presume
>>> you know BASIC's deficiencies (or at least the deficiencies of those
>>> BASIC dialects that were around until around 1980).
>>
>> That was not Dijstra's point at all - it was the "trial and error"
>> attitude to programming that you got from interpreted languages that he
>> disliked.
>
> As said, I wasn't attributing that to Dijkstra but a local professor.
> And the argument was not about interpreters but more about lacking
> structuring features, hard coded line numbers, gotos, and a lot more
> the like.
>
>> However, your point /is/ still valid - people who are only
>> familiar with one programming language will have difficulty
>> understanding its limitations or seeing the benefits of other languages,
>> and tend to look at problems from a perspective limited by their own
>> language.
>
> Yes, this is actually a platitude (and I was reluctant to mention it
> in the first place), but a general phenomenon, not restricted to IT.
>
>> [...]
>>>
>>> The 68000, specifically, is a great example for an inferior CPU
>>> architecture. (Your mileage obviously varies if you think it was
>>> even "wonderful".)
>>
>> What do you think is "inferior" about the 68k architecture? At the
>> time, the main business-world competitor, the 8086, was 8-bit with some
>> 16-bit features, and built with a view towards backwards compatibility
>> rather than the future. The 68k had a 32-bit ISA with a 16-bit ALU -
>> looking towards the 32-bit future while accepting that it had to be
>> cost-effective.
>
> I wouldn't compare it to the x86 series - my opinion on that is not
> much different to the 68k. Have a look at the NS 32016/32 processors
> (around 1979/1984). If you know the 68k but not the NS 32xxx you may
> want to have a look into, e.g., "1986_National_NS32000_Databook.pdf"
> (that you will find online).
>
>>> [...]
>>
>> SPARC certainly had some interesting features and concepts. (I never
>> used it, but read a fair bit about it, and briefly used the Altera NIOS
>> soft core that had some similarities.) The TMS320C24x DSPs I used were
>> utterly horrible.
>
> I used it for the implementation of a channel encoding system, a
> typical "signal processing" application; it was great. Imagining
> I would have to use any other processor I already knew these days
> (65xx, 68k, x86)... - that would have been really annoying.
>
>>> [...]
>>
>> There are plenty of things I find disappointingly similar between most
>> cpu architectures. It's hard for novel ideas to break through.
>
> But there were ideas! But not only the interesting ideas (like the
> frame shift on the stack [SPARC]; one detail I memorized)
It's been a while since I coded up raw SPARC ASM. Remember that branch
delay slot? Ever use it with a MEMBAR instruction? Shit would hit the fan.
> should have
> been considered, also (e.g.) support of addressing data structures as
> known from (back then) contemporary languages; the NS 32xxx supported
> that for example. And these ideas were already old; see for example
> Seegmüller: Einführung in die Systemprogrammierung (1974)
> (And I would be surprised if he'd been the first who described that.)
>
> But yes, the "break through" factors (e.g. the market factors) were
> an issue.
>
>> Part of
>> the blame for that, of course, is the success of C - a cpu design tends
>> to be successful if and only if it is efficient for the C model of
>> programming, other than for a few specialised areas (like graphics work
>> or some highly SIMD-friendly algorithms). I'd like to see cpu designs
>> with multiple stacks, multiple register banks for fast task switching,
>> hardware support for multi-tasking, locks, atomic accesses,
>> transactional memory, CSP-style message passing, memory allocation,
>> buffer management, etc. There are countless bits and pieces that could
>> make processors much faster and much more secure for a lot of work.
>>
>> The XMOS devices are one of the few architectures to come up with really
>> new ideas and have some market success.
>
> For a long time now I'm not up to date any more with CPUs and their
> architectural differences.
>
> Janis
>
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-03-28 03:26 +0100 |
| Subject | [OT] SPARC (was Re: The integral type 'byte') |
| Message-ID | <vs51ck$1l7fv$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #391745 |
On 28.03.2025 03:03, Chris M. Thomasson wrote: > On 3/27/2025 6:59 PM, Janis Papanagnou wrote: >> >> But there were ideas! But not only the interesting ideas (like the >> frame shift on the stack [SPARC]; one detail I memorized) > > It's been a while since I coded up raw SPARC ASM. Remember that branch > delay slot? Ever use it with a MEMBAR instruction? Shit would hit the fan. As mentioned somewhere upthread I haven't ever programmed a SPARC on assembler level, just studied some documents. I'm not even sure the term "frame shift on the stack" that I used is accurate or correct; it's just an informal description of a technical detail that I had considered to be interesting. (Instead of copying parameters/results with function calls between callers and callee you could just shift a "stack window" by adjusting a register (or so). So, no, I cannot remember a "branch delay slot". - Sorry. - Want to elaborate on the story? Janis
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-03-27 23:14 -0700 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] SPARC (was Re: The integral type 'byte') |
| Message-ID | <87tt7dwujt.fsf@nosuchdomain.example.com> |
| In reply to | #391746 |
Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> writes:
> On 28.03.2025 03:03, Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
>> On 3/27/2025 6:59 PM, Janis Papanagnou wrote:
>>>
>>> But there were ideas! But not only the interesting ideas (like the
>>> frame shift on the stack [SPARC]; one detail I memorized)
>>
>> It's been a while since I coded up raw SPARC ASM. Remember that branch
>> delay slot? Ever use it with a MEMBAR instruction? Shit would hit the fan.
>
> As mentioned somewhere upthread I haven't ever programmed a SPARC on
> assembler level, just studied some documents. I'm not even sure the
> term "frame shift on the stack" that I used is accurate or correct;
> it's just an informal description of a technical detail that I had
> considered to be interesting. (Instead of copying parameters/results
> with function calls between callers and callee you could just shift
> a "stack window" by adjusting a register (or so).
>
> So, no, I cannot remember a "branch delay slot". - Sorry. - Want to
> elaborate on the story?
Might I suggest comp.arch as a good place to discuss that. They've
recently had a thread about VAX; a SPARC discussion could be
interesting.
--
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com
void Void(void) { Void(); } /* The recursive call of the void */
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-03-28 13:26 +0300 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] SPARC (was Re: The integral type 'byte') |
| Message-ID | <20250328132623.000031de@yahoo.com> |
| In reply to | #391746 |
On Fri, 28 Mar 2025 03:26:26 +0100 Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> wrote: > On 28.03.2025 03:03, Chris M. Thomasson wrote: > > On 3/27/2025 6:59 PM, Janis Papanagnou wrote: > >> > >> But there were ideas! But not only the interesting ideas (like the > >> frame shift on the stack [SPARC]; one detail I memorized) > > > > It's been a while since I coded up raw SPARC ASM. Remember that > > branch delay slot? Ever use it with a MEMBAR instruction? Shit > > would hit the fan. > > As mentioned somewhere upthread I haven't ever programmed a SPARC on > assembler level, just studied some documents. I'm not even sure the > term "frame shift on the stack" that I used is accurate or correct; > it's just an informal description of a technical detail that I had > considered to be interesting. (Instead of copying parameters/results > with function calls between callers and callee you could just shift > a "stack window" by adjusting a register (or so). > > So, no, I cannot remember a "branch delay slot". - Sorry. - Want to > elaborate on the story? > > Janis > You didn't ever programmed in SPARC asm. Your reading of SPARC documents was so shallow that you didn't pay attention to highly visible distinguishing feature as branch delay slot. Could I guess that you didn't ever programmed in 68K asm, x86 asm, NS32k asm, MIPS asm etc... ? Could I guess that your reading of respective ISA docs was also similarly shallow? Could I guess that the only non-8-bitters that you ever programmed in asm were one or couple of TMS3202x DSPs?
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-03-28 13:08 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] SPARC (was Re: The integral type 'byte') |
| Message-ID | <vs63fe$2m8r2$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #391751 |
On 28/03/2025 11:26, Michael S wrote: > On Fri, 28 Mar 2025 03:26:26 +0100 > Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> wrote: > >> On 28.03.2025 03:03, Chris M. Thomasson wrote: >>> On 3/27/2025 6:59 PM, Janis Papanagnou wrote: >>>> >>>> But there were ideas! But not only the interesting ideas (like the >>>> frame shift on the stack [SPARC]; one detail I memorized) >>> >>> It's been a while since I coded up raw SPARC ASM. Remember that >>> branch delay slot? Ever use it with a MEMBAR instruction? Shit >>> would hit the fan. >> >> As mentioned somewhere upthread I haven't ever programmed a SPARC on >> assembler level, just studied some documents. I'm not even sure the >> term "frame shift on the stack" that I used is accurate or correct; >> it's just an informal description of a technical detail that I had >> considered to be interesting. (Instead of copying parameters/results >> with function calls between callers and callee you could just shift >> a "stack window" by adjusting a register (or so). >> >> So, no, I cannot remember a "branch delay slot". - Sorry. - Want to >> elaborate on the story? >> >> Janis >> > > You didn't ever programmed in SPARC asm. Your reading of SPARC > documents was so shallow that you didn't pay attention to highly > visible distinguishing feature as branch delay slot. I have not programmed SPARC either, but I would not consider branch delay slots to be a distinguishing feature - delay slots were a common feature in many (but not all) RISC architectures - most notably, IMHO, MIPS. The register window concept, however, was a lot less common (though not unique to the SPARC), and much more relevant to the way you work with the processor.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-03-28 15:20 +0300 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] SPARC (was Re: The integral type 'byte') |
| Message-ID | <20250328152036.00005bf3@yahoo.com> |
| In reply to | #391759 |
On Fri, 28 Mar 2025 13:08:14 +0100 David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote: > On 28/03/2025 11:26, Michael S wrote: > > On Fri, 28 Mar 2025 03:26:26 +0100 > > Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> wrote: > > > >> On 28.03.2025 03:03, Chris M. Thomasson wrote: > >>> On 3/27/2025 6:59 PM, Janis Papanagnou wrote: > >>>> > >>>> But there were ideas! But not only the interesting ideas (like > >>>> the frame shift on the stack [SPARC]; one detail I memorized) > >>> > >>> It's been a while since I coded up raw SPARC ASM. Remember that > >>> branch delay slot? Ever use it with a MEMBAR instruction? Shit > >>> would hit the fan. > >> > >> As mentioned somewhere upthread I haven't ever programmed a SPARC > >> on assembler level, just studied some documents. I'm not even sure > >> the term "frame shift on the stack" that I used is accurate or > >> correct; it's just an informal description of a technical detail > >> that I had considered to be interesting. (Instead of copying > >> parameters/results with function calls between callers and callee > >> you could just shift a "stack window" by adjusting a register (or > >> so). > >> > >> So, no, I cannot remember a "branch delay slot". - Sorry. - Want to > >> elaborate on the story? > >> > >> Janis > >> > > > > You didn't ever programmed in SPARC asm. Your reading of SPARC > > documents was so shallow that you didn't pay attention to highly > > visible distinguishing feature as branch delay slot. > > I have not programmed SPARC either, but I would not consider branch > delay slots to be a distinguishing feature - delay slots were a > common feature in many (but not all) RISC architectures - most > notably, IMHO, MIPS. > > The register window concept, however, was a lot less common (though > not unique to the SPARC), and much more relevant to the way you work > with the processor. > Register Window is a major part of Berkeley tradition. The processor with Register Window that was sold and highest quantities is probably not SPARC, but Intel i960. Another examples are AMD 29K and Intel Itanium. As to importance for asm coder, branch delay slot is more important (i.e. more annoying) than register window, simply because in typical program one has more branches than function calls. At system programming level register window can be more important, in a bad way. At the level of programming in C, esp. for application programs, both register windows and branch delay slots are transparent.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-03-28 15:33 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] SPARC (was Re: The integral type 'byte') |
| Message-ID | <vs6c0n$2tqti$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #391762 |
On 28/03/2025 13:20, Michael S wrote: > On Fri, 28 Mar 2025 13:08:14 +0100 > David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote: > >> On 28/03/2025 11:26, Michael S wrote: >>> On Fri, 28 Mar 2025 03:26:26 +0100 >>> Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> On 28.03.2025 03:03, Chris M. Thomasson wrote: >>>>> On 3/27/2025 6:59 PM, Janis Papanagnou wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> But there were ideas! But not only the interesting ideas (like >>>>>> the frame shift on the stack [SPARC]; one detail I memorized) >>>>> >>>>> It's been a while since I coded up raw SPARC ASM. Remember that >>>>> branch delay slot? Ever use it with a MEMBAR instruction? Shit >>>>> would hit the fan. >>>> >>>> As mentioned somewhere upthread I haven't ever programmed a SPARC >>>> on assembler level, just studied some documents. I'm not even sure >>>> the term "frame shift on the stack" that I used is accurate or >>>> correct; it's just an informal description of a technical detail >>>> that I had considered to be interesting. (Instead of copying >>>> parameters/results with function calls between callers and callee >>>> you could just shift a "stack window" by adjusting a register (or >>>> so). >>>> >>>> So, no, I cannot remember a "branch delay slot". - Sorry. - Want to >>>> elaborate on the story? >>>> >>>> Janis >>>> >>> >>> You didn't ever programmed in SPARC asm. Your reading of SPARC >>> documents was so shallow that you didn't pay attention to highly >>> visible distinguishing feature as branch delay slot. >> >> I have not programmed SPARC either, but I would not consider branch >> delay slots to be a distinguishing feature - delay slots were a >> common feature in many (but not all) RISC architectures - most >> notably, IMHO, MIPS. >> >> The register window concept, however, was a lot less common (though >> not unique to the SPARC), and much more relevant to the way you work >> with the processor. >> > > Register Window is a major part of Berkeley tradition. The processor > with Register Window that was sold and highest quantities is probably > not SPARC, but Intel i960. Another examples are AMD 29K and Intel > Itanium. I did not know that the Itanium had a register window - I did know about the AMD 29K. It surprises me to hear that the i960 was sold in higher quantities than the SPARC, but since I have no real idea of the sales figures of either, I will take your word for it. > > As to importance for asm coder, branch delay slot is more important > (i.e. more annoying) than register window, simply because in typical > program one has more branches than function calls. I would disagree. Neither feature is particularly relevant if you are doing user-level programming in a high-level language. In assembly, you have no choice but to understand and use the register window feature - it's a major part of coding. The branch delay slot, on the other hand, can be ignored by simply using a NOP, for a slight efficiency cost. I vaguely recall the MIPS assembler handling delay slots somewhat automatically, but my experience using that was /very/ brief. Make the most of the delay slot for optimal efficiency would, I expect, be annoying - but so is a lot of assembly coding for RISC devices! > At system programming level register window can be more important, in a > bad way. > At the level of programming in C, esp. for application programs, both > register windows and branch delay slots are transparent. > Yes. Any classification of "distinguishing features" or "important features" is going to be quite subjective - it depends which other cpus you are comparing to.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
Page 10 of 22 — ← Prev page 1 … 8 9 [10] 11 12 … 22 Next page →
Back to top | Article view | comp.lang.c
csiph-web