Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]


Groups > comp.lang.c > #379646 > unrolled thread

Effect of CPP tags

Started byJanis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com>
First post2023-12-26 16:59 +0100
Last post2024-01-08 22:20 -0800
Articles 20 on this page of 671 — 31 participants

Back to article view | Back to comp.lang.c


Contents

  Effect of CPP tags Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2023-12-26 16:59 +0100
    Re: Effect of CPP tags Lowell Gilbert <lgusenet@be-well.ilk.org> - 2023-12-26 17:45 -0500
    Re: Effect of CPP tags Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2023-12-26 22:50 +0000
      Re: Effect of CPP tags Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> - 2023-12-27 17:11 +0000
        Re: Effect of CPP tags Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-12-31 14:45 -0800
    Re: Effect of CPP tags Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2023-12-28 17:34 +0100
      Re: Effect of CPP tags Lowell Gilbert <lgusenet@be-well.ilk.org> - 2023-12-28 14:11 -0500
        Re: Effect of CPP tags Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-12-28 13:13 -0800
          Re: Effect of CPP tags Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2023-12-28 21:47 +0000
            Re: Effect of CPP tags Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-12-28 15:12 -0800
              Re: Effect of CPP tags Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-01-20 14:29 -0800
                Re: Effect of CPP tags Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-21 04:46 +0000
                  Re: Effect of CPP tags James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2024-01-21 10:56 -0500
                  Re: Effect of CPP tags James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2024-01-21 12:11 -0500
                    Re: Effect of CPP tags Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-21 17:55 +0000
                      Re: Effect of CPP tags James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2024-01-21 21:57 -0500
                        Re: Effect of CPP tags Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-01-24 07:42 -0800
                      Re: Effect of CPP tags Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-01-31 12:43 -0800
                        Re: Effect of CPP tags Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-31 13:41 -0800
                          Re: Effect of CPP tags David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-02-01 09:19 +0100
                          Re: Effect of CPP tags Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-03-14 23:11 -0700
                            Re: Effect of CPP tags Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-03-14 23:56 -0700
                          Re: Effect of CPP tags Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-03-14 23:12 -0700
                  Re: Effect of CPP tags Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-02-11 17:38 -0800
        Re: Effect of CPP tags Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2023-12-28 21:33 +0000
          Re: Effect of CPP tags Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2023-12-28 21:42 +0000
          Re: Effect of CPP tags Lowell Gilbert <lgusenet@be-well.ilk.org> - 2023-12-28 18:04 -0500
            Re: Effect of CPP tags Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2023-12-29 16:11 +0100
        Re: Effect of CPP tags Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2023-12-29 16:04 +0100
          Re: Effect of CPP tags Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2023-12-29 17:51 +0000
      Re: Effect of CPP tags Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2023-12-28 21:22 +0000
      Re: Effect of CPP tags scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-12-29 15:52 +0000
        Re: Effect of CPP tags Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2023-12-29 17:27 +0100
          Re: Effect of CPP tags Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-12-29 11:01 -0800
            Re: Effect of CPP tags scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-12-29 22:18 +0000
              Re: Effect of CPP tags David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-12-31 14:40 +0100
                Re: Effect of CPP tags James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2023-12-31 12:43 -0500
                  Re: Effect of CPP tags David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-01 12:57 +0100
            Re: Effect of CPP tags Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-12-31 18:32 -0800
        usleep (Was: Effect of CPP tags) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2023-12-29 18:10 +0000
    Re: Effect of CPP tags Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2023-12-29 02:35 +0000
      Re: Effect of CPP tags Bart <bc@freeuk.cm> - 2023-12-29 13:31 +0000
        Re: Effect of CPP tags David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-12-29 15:58 +0100
          Re: Effect of CPP tags Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-12-29 10:33 -0800
            Re: Effect of CPP tags Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2023-12-29 20:23 +0000
              Re: Effect of CPP tags Bart <bc@freeuk.cm> - 2023-12-29 22:40 +0000
                Re: Effect of CPP tags Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2023-12-30 01:28 +0000
                  Re: Effect of CPP tags Bart <bc@freeuk.cm> - 2023-12-30 01:58 +0000
                    Re: Effect of CPP tags Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2023-12-31 01:36 +0000
                      Re: Effect of CPP tags Bart <bc@freeuk.cm> - 2023-12-31 02:06 +0000
                        Re: Effect of CPP tags scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-12-31 18:33 +0000
                          Re: Effect of CPP tags David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-01 13:09 +0100
                            Re: Effect of CPP tags BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2024-01-03 00:20 -0600
                          Re: Effect of CPP tags Bart <bc@freeuk.cm> - 2024-01-01 12:49 +0000
                            Re: Effect of CPP tags David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-02 09:11 +0100
                        Re: Effect of CPP tags Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2023-12-31 21:41 +0000
                Re: Effect of CPP tags David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-12-31 16:25 +0100
                  Re: Effect of CPP tags Bart <bc@freeuk.cm> - 2023-12-31 15:45 +0000
                    Re: Effect of CPP tags scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-12-31 18:40 +0000
                    Re: Effect of CPP tags Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2023-12-31 18:44 +0000
                      Re: Effect of CPP tags Bart <bc@freeuk.cm> - 2023-12-31 19:37 +0000
                        Re: Effect of CPP tags Bart <bc@freeuk.cm> - 2023-12-31 22:00 +0000
                          Re: Effect of CPP tags Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-12-31 16:03 -0800
                          Re: Effect of CPP tags Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-01 02:58 +0000
                            Re: Effect of CPP tags Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-12-31 19:18 -0800
                              Re: Effect of CPP tags Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-01 05:38 +0100
                                Re: Effect of CPP tags Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-12-31 22:56 -0800
                              Re: Effect of CPP tags Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-01 08:54 +0000
                      Re: Effect of CPP tags scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-12-31 20:00 +0000
                    Re: Effect of CPP tags David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-01 15:38 +0100
                  Re: Effect of CPP tags Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2023-12-31 21:44 +0000
                    Re: Effect of CPP tags "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-12-31 13:51 -0800
                      Re: Effect of CPP tags Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-01 00:12 +0000
                        Re: Effect of CPP tags "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-12-31 22:57 -0800
                          Re: Effect of CPP tags Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-01 07:00 +0000
                            Re: Effect of CPP tags "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-12-31 23:03 -0800
                            Re: Effect of CPP tags "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-12-31 23:06 -0800
                            Re: Effect of CPP tags Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-01 09:18 +0000
                            Re: Effect of CPP tags Blue-Maned_Hawk <bluemanedhawk@invalid.invalid> - 2024-01-02 15:15 +0000
                    Re: Effect of CPP tags David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-01 15:44 +0100
                      Re: Effect of CPP tags Bart <bc@freeuk.cm> - 2024-01-01 15:54 +0000
                        Re: Effect of CPP tags David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-02 11:42 +0100
                          Re: Effect of CPP tags Blue-Maned_Hawk <bluemanedhawk@invalid.invalid> - 2024-01-02 15:04 +0000
                          Re: Effect of CPP tags Bart <bc@freeuk.cm> - 2024-01-02 16:12 +0000
                            Re: Effect of CPP tags David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-02 18:34 +0100
                              Re: Effect of CPP tags Bart <bc@freeuk.cm> - 2024-01-02 20:24 +0000
                                Re: Effect of CPP tags "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-01-02 13:00 -0800
                                  Re: Effect of CPP tags "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-01-02 13:02 -0800
                                Re: Effect of CPP tags tTh <tth@none.invalid> - 2024-01-03 00:24 +0100
                                  Re: Effect of CPP tags Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-03 02:41 +0000
                                  Re: Effect of CPP tags Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-03 03:29 +0000
                                  Re: Effect of CPP tags Bart <bc@freeuk.cm> - 2024-01-03 11:55 +0000
                                    Re: Effect of CPP tags scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-03 15:32 +0000
                                      Re: Effect of CPP tags Bart <bc@freeuk.cm> - 2024-01-03 17:14 +0000
                                        Re: Effect of CPP tags David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-03 20:16 +0100
                                          Re: Effect of CPP tags Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-03 19:57 +0000
                                            Re: Effect of CPP tags David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-04 09:46 +0100
                                              Re: Effect of CPP tags Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-04 18:57 +0000
                                          Re: Effect of CPP tags Bart <bc@freeuk.cm> - 2024-01-03 23:48 +0000
                                            Re: Effect of CPP tags scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-04 01:57 +0000
                                              Re: Effect of CPP tags Bart <bc@freeuk.cm> - 2024-01-04 02:20 +0000
                                                Re: Effect of CPP tags scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-04 16:08 +0000
                                                  Re: Effect of CPP tags Bart <bc@freeuk.cm> - 2024-01-04 18:35 +0000
                                                    Re: Effect of CPP tags Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-04 20:55 +0100
                                                      Re: Effect of CPP tags Bart <bc@freeuk.cm> - 2024-01-04 20:17 +0000
                                                        Re: Effect of CPP tags Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-04 15:22 -0800
                                                        Re: Effect of CPP tags Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-05 10:03 +0100
                                                          Re: Effect of CPP tags Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-05 18:37 +0000
                                                          Re: Effect of CPP tags Bart <bc@freeuk.cm> - 2024-01-05 19:25 +0000
                                                    Re: Effect of CPP tags scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-04 21:14 +0000
                                                      Re: Effect of CPP tags Jim Jackson <jj@franjam.org.uk> - 2024-01-04 22:07 +0000
                                                        Re: Effect of CPP tags Bart <bc@freeuk.cm> - 2024-01-04 22:48 +0000
                                                          Re: Effect of CPP tags Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-04 23:14 +0000
                                                            Re: Effect of CPP tags Bart <bc@freeuk.cm> - 2024-01-04 23:48 +0000
                                                          Re: Effect of CPP tags Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-04 23:25 +0000
                                                            Re: Effect of CPP tags Bart <bc@freeuk.cm> - 2024-01-05 01:53 +0000
                                                              Re: Effect of CPP tags Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-05 04:53 +0000
                                                              Re: Effect of CPP tags David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-05 15:05 +0100
                                                                Re: Effect of CPP tags Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-05 07:58 -0800
                                                                  Re: Effect of CPP tags David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-05 17:34 +0100
                                                                  Re: Effect of CPP tags Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-05 18:42 +0000
                                                                    Re: Effect of CPP tags David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-06 08:39 +0100
                                                                      Re: Effect of CPP tags bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-18 19:15 +0000
                                                                        Re: Effect of CPP tags "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-01-18 13:21 -0800
                                                                        Re: Effect of CPP tags David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-19 10:06 +0100
                                                                Re: Effect of CPP tags Bart <bc@freeuk.cm> - 2024-01-05 16:29 +0000
                                                                  Re: Effect of CPP tags scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-05 18:44 +0000
                                                                    Re: Effect of CPP tags Bart <bc@freeuk.cm> - 2024-01-05 19:33 +0000
                                                                      Re: Effect of CPP tags scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-05 20:06 +0000
                                                                      Re: Effect of CPP tags Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-05 14:50 -0800
                                                                        Re: Effect of CPP tags Bart <bc@freeuk.cm> - 2024-01-06 01:09 +0000
                                                                          Re: Effect of CPP tags Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-05 17:55 -0800
                                                                            Re: Effect of CPP tags scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-07 01:00 +0000
                                                                              Re: Effect of CPP tags Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-01-08 22:56 -0800
                                                                      Re: Effect of CPP tags David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-06 10:02 +0100
                                                                Re: Effect of CPP tags Bart <bc@freeuk.cm> - 2024-01-05 22:19 +0000
                                                                  Re: Effect of CPP tags Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-05 22:43 +0000
                                                                    Re: Effect of CPP tags Bart <bc@freeuk.cm> - 2024-01-06 02:04 +0000
                                                                  Re: Effect of CPP tags Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2024-01-05 23:02 +0000
                                                                    Re: Effect of CPP tags Bart <bc@freeuk.cm> - 2024-01-06 01:45 +0000
                                                                      Re: Effect of CPP tags Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-05 18:17 -0800
                                                                  Re: Effect of CPP tags David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-06 10:09 +0100
                                                                    Re: Effect of CPP tags Bart <bc@freeuk.cm> - 2024-01-06 10:27 +0000
                                                                      Re: Effect of CPP tags David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-06 15:23 +0100
                                                                      Re: Effect of CPP tags Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-06 13:40 -0800
                                                                        Re: Effect of CPP tags Bart <bc@freeuk.cm> - 2024-01-07 00:09 +0000
                                                                          Re: Effect of CPP tags Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-07 00:16 +0000
                                                                            Re: Effect of CPP tags Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-06 16:40 -0800
                                                                              Re: Effect of CPP tags Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-07 00:58 +0000
                                                                                Re: Effect of CPP tags Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-07 03:30 +0000
                                                                                Re: Effect of CPP tags David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-07 15:48 +0100
                                                                                  Re: Effect of CPP tags Bart <bc@freeuk.cm> - 2024-01-07 15:34 +0000
                                                                                    Re: Effect of CPP tags David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-08 13:50 +0100
                                                                                      Re: Effect of CPP tags Bart <bc@freeuk.cm> - 2024-01-08 15:53 +0000
                                                                                        Re: Effect of CPP tags David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-08 20:50 +0100
                                                                                          Re: Effect of CPP tags Bart <bc@freeuk.cm> - 2024-01-09 01:05 +0000
                                                                                            Re: Effect of CPP tags David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-09 08:30 +0100
                                                                                              Re: Effect of CPP tags Bart <bc@freeuk.cm> - 2024-01-09 11:11 +0000
                                                                                                Re: Effect of CPP tags David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-09 15:56 +0100
                                                                                                  Re: Effect of CPP tags Bart <bc@freeuk.cm> - 2024-01-09 17:46 +0000
                                                                                                    Re: Effect of CPP tags David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-09 19:56 +0100
                                                                                                      Re: Effect of CPP tags Bart <bc@freeuk.cm> - 2024-01-09 20:52 +0000
                                                                                                        Re: Effect of CPP tags Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-09 13:15 -0800
                                                                                                          Re: Effect of CPP tags Bart <bc@freeuk.cm> - 2024-01-09 21:33 +0000
                                                                                                            Re: Effect of CPP tags scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-09 21:55 +0000
                                                                                                              Re: Effect of CPP tags Bart <bc@freeuk.cm> - 2024-01-09 22:22 +0000
                                                                                                                Re: Effect of CPP tags David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-10 09:37 +0100
                                                                                                                  Re: Effect of CPP tags bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-10 12:12 +0000
                                                                                                                    Re: Effect of CPP tags David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-10 14:17 +0100
                                                                                                                      Re: Effect of CPP tags bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-10 14:31 +0000
                                                                                                                        Re: Effect of CPP tags David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-10 16:51 +0100
                                                                                                                          Re: Effect of CPP tags bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-10 18:57 +0000
                                                                                                                            Re: Effect of CPP tags David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-10 20:55 +0100
                                                                                                                              Re: Effect of CPP tags bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-10 20:49 +0000
                                                                                                                                Re: Effect of CPP tags David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-11 11:26 +0100
                                                                                                                              Re: Effect of CPP tags "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-01-10 19:19 -0800
                                                                                                                            Re: Effect of CPP tags tTh <tth@none.invalid> - 2024-01-11 00:30 +0100
                                                                                                                              Re: Effect of CPP tags bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-11 01:14 +0000
                                                                                                                                Re: Effect of CPP tags "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-01-10 19:25 -0800
                                                                                                                                Re: Effect of CPP tags Richard Harnden <richard.nospam@gmail.invalid> - 2024-01-11 17:56 +0000
                                                                                                                                  Re: Effect of CPP tags bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-11 18:31 +0000
                                                                                                                                    Make (was: Re: Effect of CPP tags) vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2024-01-15 21:01 +0000
                                                                                                                            Re: Effect of CPP tags Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-11 02:29 +0000
                                                                                                                        Re: Effect of CPP tags tTh <tth@none.invalid> - 2024-01-10 17:46 +0100
                                                                                                                    Re: Effect of CPP tags scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-10 14:51 +0000
                                                                                                                      Re: Effect of CPP tags bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-10 17:58 +0000
                                                                                                                        Re: Effect of CPP tags scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-10 19:16 +0000
                                                                                                                          Re: Effect of CPP tags "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-01-10 19:30 -0800
                                                                                                                        Re: Effect of CPP tags David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-10 20:27 +0100
                                                                                                            Re: Effect of CPP tags Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-09 14:22 -0800
                                                                                                            Re: Effect of CPP tags James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2024-01-09 17:37 -0500
                                                                                                              Re: Effect of CPP tags Bart <bc@freeuk.cm> - 2024-01-09 23:27 +0000
                                                                                                                Re: Effect of CPP tags Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-09 16:05 -0800
                                                                                                                  Re: Effect of CPP tags Bart <bc@freeuk.cm> - 2024-01-10 00:40 +0000
                                                                                                                    Re: Effect of CPP tags Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-09 16:49 -0800
                                                                                                                      Re: Effect of CPP tags Bart <bc@freeuk.cm> - 2024-01-10 02:04 +0000
                                                                                                                        Re: Effect of CPP tags Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-09 19:17 -0800
                                                                                                                          Re: Effect of CPP tags Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-01-14 09:26 -0800
                                                                                                                        Re: Effect of CPP tags James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2024-01-10 11:22 -0500
                                                                                                                    Re: Effect of CPP tags Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-10 01:54 +0000
                                                                                                                    Re: Effect of CPP tags tTh <tth@none.invalid> - 2024-01-10 02:57 +0100
                                                                                                                      Re: Effect of CPP tags Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-10 05:28 +0000
                                                                                                                        Re: Effect of CPP tags Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-10 06:28 +0000
                                                                                                                          Re: Effect of CPP tags David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-10 09:50 +0100
                                                                                                                        Re: Effect of CPP tags "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-01-09 23:40 -0800
                                                                                                                          Re: Effect of CPP tags David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-10 11:10 +0100
                                                                                                                            Re: Effect of CPP tags "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-01-10 19:10 -0800
                                                                                                                              Re: Effect of CPP tags "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-01-10 19:11 -0800
                                                                                                                                Re: Effect of CPP tags bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-11 11:55 +0000
                                                                                                                              Re: Effect of CPP tags David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-11 11:42 +0100
                                                                                                                                Re: Effect of CPP tags "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-01-12 14:59 -0800
                                                                                                                        Re: Effect of CPP tags vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2024-01-11 14:58 +0000
                                                                                                                          A good place to discuss Makefiles? (was Re: Effect of CPP tags) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-11 16:56 +0100
                                                                                                                    Re: Effect of CPP tags scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-10 02:00 +0000
                                                                                                                      Re: Effect of CPP tags Bart <bc@freeuk.cm> - 2024-01-10 02:14 +0000
                                                                                                                        Re: Effect of CPP tags David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-10 11:16 +0100
                                                                                                                          Re: Effect of CPP tags scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-10 14:49 +0000
                                                                                                                            Re: Effect of CPP tags bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-10 18:13 +0000
                                                                                                                              Re: Effect of CPP tags Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-10 10:39 -0800
                                                                                                                                Re: Effect of CPP tags bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-10 19:24 +0000
                                                                                                                                  Re: Effect of CPP tags Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-10 11:39 -0800
                                                                                                                                  Re: Effect of CPP tags David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-10 20:42 +0100
                                                                                                                                  Re: Effect of CPP tags bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-10 20:20 +0000
                                                                                                                                    Re: Effect of CPP tags Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-10 12:42 -0800
                                                                                                                                    Re: Effect of CPP tags Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-10 21:43 +0000
                                                                                                                                      Re: Effect of CPP tags bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-10 22:36 +0000
                                                                                                                                        Re: Effect of CPP tags Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-01-10 21:39 -0500
                                                                                                                                        Re: Effect of CPP tags Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-11 02:46 +0000
                                                                                                                                          Re: Effect of CPP tags bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-11 11:44 +0000
                                                                                                                                            Re: Effect of CPP tags bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-11 12:19 +0000
                                                                                                                                            Re: Effect of CPP tags Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-11 16:13 +0000
                                                                                                                                              Re: Effect of CPP tags scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-11 17:00 +0000
                                                                                                                                                Re: Effect of CPP tags Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-11 21:18 +0000
                                                                                                                                                  Re: Effect of CPP tags scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-11 23:03 +0000
                                                                                                                                                    Re: Effect of CPP tags Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-11 23:58 +0000
                                                                                                                                                  Re: Effect of CPP tags David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-12 09:08 +0100
                                                                                                                                              Re: Effect of CPP tags bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-11 18:49 +0000
                                                                                                                                                Re: Effect of CPP tags Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-11 12:16 -0800
                                                                                                                                                Re: Effect of CPP tags Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-11 22:02 +0000
                                                                                                                                                  Re: Effect of CPP tags bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-11 23:20 +0000
                                                                                                                                                    Re: Effect of CPP tags Anthony Cuozzo <anthony@cuozzo.us> - 2024-01-11 19:02 -0500
                                                                                                                                                    Re: Effect of CPP tags Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-11 16:23 -0800
                                                                                                                                                    Re: Effect of CPP tags David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-12 14:40 +0100
                                                                                                                                                      Re: Effect of CPP tags scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-12 16:01 +0000
                                                                                                                                                        Re: Effect of CPP tags bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-12 16:28 +0000
                                                                                                                                                          Re: Effect of CPP tags scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-12 17:16 +0000
                                                                                                                                                        Re: Effect of CPP tags Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-12 20:21 +0000
                                                                                                                                                      Re: Effect of CPP tags bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-12 16:12 +0000
                                                                                                                                                        Re: Effect of CPP tags David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-12 17:34 +0100
                                                                                                                                                          Re: Effect of CPP tags bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-12 17:09 +0000
                                                                                                                                                            Re: Effect of CPP tags Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-12 19:02 +0100
                                                                                                                                                              Re: Effect of CPP tags bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-12 21:01 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                Re: Effect of CPP tags Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-12 13:07 -0800
                                                                                                                                                                Re: Effect of CPP tags Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-12 21:51 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                  Re: Effect of CPP tags bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-13 00:13 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                    Re: Effect of CPP tags Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-12 16:47 -0800
                                                                                                                                                                      Re: Effect of CPP tags bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-13 01:12 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                        Re: Effect of CPP tags Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-12 17:40 -0800
                                                                                                                                                                          Re: Effect of CPP tags scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-13 15:07 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                            Re: Effect of CPP tags scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-13 16:02 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                        Re: Effect of CPP tags Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-13 04:17 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                          Re: Effect of CPP tags bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-13 12:03 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                            Re: Effect of CPP tags Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-13 13:42 -0800
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: Effect of CPP tags bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-13 22:39 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                Re: Effect of CPP tags tTh <tth@none.invalid> - 2024-01-14 00:02 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: Effect of CPP tags bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-14 14:33 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                Re: Effect of CPP tags Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-13 15:26 -0800
                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: Effect of CPP tags bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-14 00:36 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                    Re: Effect of CPP tags scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-14 16:20 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                    Re: Effect of CPP tags David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-15 13:19 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                      Makefile as an implementation instance of a transformation process (was Re: Effect of CPP tags) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-15 15:46 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                        Re: Makefile as an implementation instance of a transformation process (was Re: Effect of CPP tags) Richard Harnden <richard.nospam@gmail.invalid> - 2024-01-15 15:41 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: Effect of CPP tags Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-01-14 09:54 -0800
                                                                                                                                                                                    Re: Effect of CPP tags bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-14 18:17 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                      Re: Effect of CPP tags Anthony Cuozzo <anthony@cuozzo.us> - 2024-01-14 13:44 -0500
                                                                                                                                                                                        Re: Effect of CPP tags Jim Jackson <jj@franjam.org.uk> - 2024-01-14 19:16 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                        Re: Effect of CPP tags bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-14 19:57 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                          Re: Effect of CPP tags "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-01-14 13:14 -0800
                                                                                                                                                                                          Re: Effect of CPP tags Gabriel Rolland <gabrielrolland@gmail.com> - 2024-01-15 09:51 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                            Re: Effect of CPP tags bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-15 11:39 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                              Re: Effect of CPP tags David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-15 13:57 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                              Re: Effect of CPP tags Gabriel Rolland <gabrielrolland@gmail.com> - 2024-01-15 17:40 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                                Re: Effect of CPP tags scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-15 17:41 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                                Re: Effect of CPP tags bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-15 18:41 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: Effect of CPP tags scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-15 19:12 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Re: Effect of CPP tags bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-15 19:32 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Re: Effect of CPP tags scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-15 20:12 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Re: Effect of CPP tags Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-15 23:28 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Re: Effect of CPP tags bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-16 00:04 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                                          Re: Effect of CPP tags "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-01-15 18:23 -0800
                                                                                                                                                                                                          Re: Effect of CPP tags David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-16 14:22 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                                          Re: Effect of CPP tags scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-16 15:53 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: Effect of CPP tags David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-15 21:16 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Re: Effect of CPP tags bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-16 15:24 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Re: Effect of CPP tags David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-16 16:45 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Switch fallthrough considered harmful? (was Re: Effect of CPP tags) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-17 06:01 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                                          Re: Switch fallthrough considered harmful? (was Re: Effect of CPP tags) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-17 11:44 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                                            Re: Switch fallthrough considered harmful? (was Re: Effect of CPP tags) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-17 12:21 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                                              Re: Switch fallthrough considered harmful? (was Re: Effect of CPP tags) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-17 14:10 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                                                Re: Switch fallthrough considered harmful? (was Re: Effect of CPP tags) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-17 19:35 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                            Re: Effect of CPP tags David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-15 13:48 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                              Re: Effect of CPP tags Gabriel Rolland <gabrielrolland@gmail.com> - 2024-01-15 17:42 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                            Re: Effect of CPP tags scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-15 14:56 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                              Re: Effect of CPP tags Gabriel Rolland <gabrielrolland@gmail.com> - 2024-01-15 17:43 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                Re: Effect of CPP tags David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-15 13:10 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                Re: Effect of CPP tags James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2024-01-15 11:22 -0500
                                                                                                                                                                Re: Effect of CPP tags scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-12 22:22 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                  Re: Effect of CPP tags bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-13 01:02 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                Re: Effect of CPP tags Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-13 06:54 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                  Re: Effect of CPP tags bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-13 14:08 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                  Re: Effect of CPP tags bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-14 01:13 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                Re: Effect of CPP tags David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-15 12:57 +0100
                                                                                                                                                            Re: Effect of CPP tags David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-15 12:45 +0100
                                                                                                                                                              Re: Effect of CPP tags Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-15 14:11 -0800
                                                                                                                                                              Re: Effect of CPP tags bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-16 19:44 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                Re: Effect of CPP tags scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-16 20:09 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                  Re: Effect of CPP tags bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-16 21:06 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                    Re: Effect of CPP tags David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-17 12:41 +0100
                                                                                                                                                          Re: Effect of CPP tags scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-12 17:40 +0000
                                                                                                                                                            Re: Effect of CPP tags Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-12 19:06 +0100
                                                                                                                                                        Re: Effect of CPP tags scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-12 16:50 +0000
                                                                                                                                                          Re: Effect of CPP tags scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-12 17:43 +0000
                                                                                                                                                          Re: Effect of CPP tags bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-12 17:59 +0000
                                                                                                                                                            Re: Effect of CPP tags Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-12 19:10 +0100
                                                                                                                                                              Re: Effect of CPP tags bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-12 18:53 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                Re: Effect of CPP tags scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-12 19:18 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                  Re: Effect of CPP tags bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-12 20:16 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                    Re: Effect of CPP tags scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-12 22:18 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                    Re: Effect of CPP tags Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-13 05:15 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                  Re: Effect of CPP tags Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-12 12:59 -0800
                                                                                                                                                                    Re: Effect of CPP tags Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-13 04:36 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                Re: Effect of CPP tags Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-13 05:01 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                  Re: Effect of CPP tags "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-01-12 20:05 -0800
                                                                                                                                                                    Re: Effect of CPP tags "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-01-12 20:08 -0800
                                                                                                                                                                  Re: Effect of CPP tags Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-13 04:31 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                    Re: Effect of CPP tags Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-13 07:13 +0100
                                                                                                                                                            Re: Effect of CPP tags scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-12 19:15 +0000
                                                                                                                                                              Re: Effect of CPP tags bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-12 20:14 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                Re: Effect of CPP tags Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-13 05:12 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                Re: Effect of CPP tags Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-13 04:46 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                  Re: Effect of CPP tags "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-01-12 20:52 -0800
                                                                                                                                                                    Re: Effect of CPP tags "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-01-12 20:57 -0800
                                                                                                                                                                    Re: Effect of CPP tags "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-01-12 21:39 -0800
                                                                                                                                                                Re: Effect of CPP tags Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-01-14 09:22 -0800
                                                                                                                                                                  Re: Effect of CPP tags bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-14 18:10 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                    Re: Effect of CPP tags "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-01-14 13:11 -0800
                                                                                                                                                                    Re: Effect of CPP tags Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-14 14:58 -0800
                                                                                                                                                                      Re: Effect of CPP tags Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-15 01:05 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                        Re: Effect of CPP tags "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-01-14 20:44 -0800
                                                                                                                                                                      Re: Effect of CPP tags "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-01-14 20:39 -0800
                                                                                                                                                                        Re: Effect of CPP tags Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-14 21:47 -0800
                                                                                                                                                                          Re: Effect of CPP tags "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-01-14 22:37 -0800
                                                                                                                                                                            Re: Effect of CPP tags David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-15 14:20 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: Effect of CPP tags "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-01-15 12:21 -0800
                                                                                                                                                                    Re: Effect of CPP tags Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-15 00:52 +0000
                                                                                                                                                            Re: Effect of CPP tags Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-12 12:09 -0800
                                                                                                                                                              Re: Effect of CPP tags scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-12 22:16 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                Re: Effect of CPP tags Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2024-01-12 23:04 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                  Re: Effect of CPP tags Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2024-01-12 23:30 +0000
                                                                                                                                                            Re: Effect of CPP tags tTh <tth@none.invalid> - 2024-01-13 00:16 +0100
                                                                                                                                                          Re: Effect of CPP tags bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-17 11:16 +0000
                                                                                                                                                            Re: Effect of CPP tags Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-17 18:47 +0000
                                                                                                                                                              Re: Effect of CPP tags bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-17 19:42 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                Re: Effect of CPP tags scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-17 22:18 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                  Re: Effect of CPP tags bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-17 23:48 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                    Re: Effect of CPP tags Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-17 16:23 -0800
                                                                                                                                                                    Re: Effect of CPP tags Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-18 00:25 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                      Re: Effect of CPP tags bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-18 00:47 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                        Re: Effect of CPP tags Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-18 04:30 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                          Re: Effect of CPP tags bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-18 10:26 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                            Re: Effect of CPP tags Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-18 19:40 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: Effect of CPP tags bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-18 20:21 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                Re: Effect of CPP tags David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-19 11:07 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: Effect of CPP tags bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-19 11:17 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                    Re: Effect of CPP tags David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-19 12:41 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                      Re: Effect of CPP tags bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-19 13:18 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                        Re: Effect of CPP tags David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-19 15:42 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                          Re: Effect of CPP tags bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-19 15:03 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                            Re: Effect of CPP tags David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-19 18:12 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                              Re: Effect of CPP tags bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-19 18:28 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                                Re: Effect of CPP tags scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-19 18:43 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                                Re: Effect of CPP tags David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-19 19:48 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                          Re: Effect of CPP tags Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-19 17:32 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                            Re: Effect of CPP tags bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-19 17:05 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                              Re: Effect of CPP tags David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-19 19:50 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                            Re: Effect of CPP tags "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-01-19 14:18 -0800
                                                                                                                                                                                      Re: Effect of CPP tags "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-01-19 14:14 -0800
                                                                                                                                                                                    Re: Effect of CPP tags scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-19 16:18 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: Effect of CPP tags dave_thompson_2@comcast.net - 2024-02-26 04:17 -0500
                                                                                                                                                                                Re: Effect of CPP tags scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-02-26 15:56 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                          Re: Effect of CPP tags bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-18 15:16 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                            Re: Effect of CPP tags David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-18 21:47 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: Effect of CPP tags bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-18 23:46 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                            Re: Effect of CPP tags Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-18 23:29 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                        Re: Effect of CPP tags "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-01-18 13:23 -0800
                                                                                                                                                              Re: Effect of CPP tags bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-21 00:40 +0000
                                                                                                                                                        Re: Effect of CPP tags "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-01-12 12:42 -0800
                                                                                                                                                        Re: Effect of CPP tags Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-12 21:31 +0000
                                                                                                                                                          Re: Effect of CPP tags "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-01-12 15:04 -0800
                                                                                                                                                          Re: Effect of CPP tags bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-14 12:18 +0000
                                                                                                                                                            Re: Effect of CPP tags Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-15 00:34 +0000
                                                                                                                                                              Re: Effect of CPP tags bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-15 02:14 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                Re: Effect of CPP tags Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-15 07:07 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                  Re: Effect of CPP tags "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-01-14 23:36 -0800
                                                                                                                                                                  Re: Effect of CPP tags Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-15 07:40 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                    Re: Effect of CPP tags David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-15 17:04 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                      Re: Effect of CPP tags David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-15 17:29 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                        Re: Effect of CPP tags "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-01-15 12:27 -0800
                                                                                                                                                                          Re: Effect of CPP tags Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-15 23:24 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                            Re: Effect of CPP tags "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-01-15 18:18 -0800
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: Effect of CPP tags David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-16 14:38 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                Re: Effect of CPP tags "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-01-16 16:55 -0800
                                                                                                                                                                                Re: Effect of CPP tags "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-01-16 17:08 -0800
                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: Effect of CPP tags Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-17 02:21 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                    Re: Effect of CPP tags "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-01-18 21:34 -0800
                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: Effect of CPP tags "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-01-16 18:35 -0800
                                                                                                                                                                                    Re: Effect of CPP tags Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-17 03:03 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                      Re: Effect of CPP tags "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-01-16 19:59 -0800
                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: Effect of CPP tags David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-17 13:28 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                    Re: Effect of CPP tags "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-01-17 12:55 -0800
                                                                                                                                                                          Re: Effect of CPP tags David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-16 14:24 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                            Re: Effect of CPP tags "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-01-16 20:02 -0800
                                                                                                                                                                        Re: Effect of CPP tags bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-16 11:54 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                          Re: Effect of CPP tags David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-16 14:42 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                            Re: Effect of CPP tags Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-16 15:08 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: Effect of CPP tags David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-16 16:54 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: Effect of CPP tags scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-16 15:57 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                CPU's MAC instructions (was Re: Effect of CPP tags) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-17 06:25 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: Effect of CPP tags Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-16 18:52 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                  Re: Effect of CPP tags bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-15 14:15 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                    Re: Effect of CPP tags scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-15 14:35 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                      Re: Effect of CPP tags bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-15 15:44 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                        Re: Effect of CPP tags scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-15 17:35 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                          Re: Effect of CPP tags bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-15 18:55 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                            Re: Effect of CPP tags scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-15 19:19 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                            Re: Effect of CPP tags "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-01-15 12:31 -0800
                                                                                                                                                                            Re: Effect of CPP tags Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-16 01:21 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: Effect of CPP tags bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-16 11:30 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                Re: Effect of CPP tags David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-16 15:06 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: Effect of CPP tags "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-01-16 17:04 -0800
                                                                                                                                                                                    Re: Effect of CPP tags David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-17 13:43 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                      Re: Effect of CPP tags "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-01-17 13:00 -0800
                                                                                                                                                                                        Re: Effect of CPP tags David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-18 13:00 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                          Re: Effect of CPP tags "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-01-18 13:28 -0800
                                                                                                                                                                                            Re: Effect of CPP tags "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-01-18 21:58 -0800
                                                                                                                                                                                          Re: Effect of CPP tags "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-01-18 21:55 -0800
                                                                                                                                                                                            Re: Effect of CPP tags "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-01-18 22:02 -0800
                                                                                                                                                                                Re: Effect of CPP tags scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-16 15:55 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                Re: Effect of CPP tags Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-16 18:39 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: Effect of CPP tags bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-17 00:11 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                    Re: Effect of CPP tags scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-17 16:11 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                            Re: Effect of CPP tags "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-01-18 21:42 -0800
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: Effect of CPP tags "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-01-18 21:44 -0800
                                                                                                                                                                    Re: Effect of CPP tags "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-01-15 12:28 -0800
                                                                                                                                                                  Re: Effect of CPP tags David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-15 16:39 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                Re: Effect of CPP tags David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-15 16:23 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                  Re: Effect of CPP tags scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-15 17:30 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                    Re: Effect of CPP tags David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-15 21:25 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                      Re: Effect of CPP tags scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-15 20:41 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                        Re: Effect of CPP tags David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-16 15:08 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                          Re: Effect of CPP tags scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-16 16:02 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                            Re: Effect of CPP tags David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-16 19:03 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: Effect of CPP tags scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-16 18:45 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                Re: Effect of CPP tags David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-16 23:00 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: Effect of CPP tags scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-16 22:10 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: Effect of CPP tags Richard Harnden <richard.nospam@gmail.invalid> - 2024-01-16 22:18 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                              NO vs. SE (was Re: Effect of CPP tags) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-17 07:11 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                Re: NO vs. SE (was Re: Effect of CPP tags) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-17 14:17 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: NO vs. SE (was Re: Effect of CPP tags) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-17 16:33 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                    Re: NO vs. SE (was Re: Effect of CPP tags) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-17 18:47 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                      Re: NO vs. SE (was Re: Effect of CPP tags) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-17 18:04 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: NO vs. SE (was Re: Effect of CPP tags) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-17 19:15 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                Re: NO vs. SE (was Re: Effect of CPP tags) om@iki.fi (Otto J. Makela) - 2024-01-18 17:22 +0200
                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: NO vs. SE (was Re: Effect of CPP tags) Phil Carmody <pc+usenet@asdf.org> - 2024-03-24 14:24 +0200
                                                                                                                                                                  Re: Effect of CPP tags bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-16 12:26 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                    Re: Effect of CPP tags David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-16 16:29 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                      Interpreter Dispatch in C (was: Effect of CPP Tags) bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-16 19:21 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                        Re: Interpreter Dispatch in C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-16 23:24 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                  Re: Effect of CPP tags bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-16 15:15 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                    Re: Effect of CPP tags David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-16 18:46 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                      Re: Effect of CPP tags bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-16 22:42 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                        Re: Effect of CPP tags David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-17 14:25 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                          Re: Effect of CPP tags bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-17 14:51 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                            Re: Effect of CPP tags David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-17 19:07 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                      Optimization and inline assembly (was Re: Effect of CPP tags) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-17 07:07 +0100
                                                                                                                                                              Re: Effect of CPP tags "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-01-14 18:58 -0800
                                                                                                                                                              Re: Effect of CPP tags "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-01-14 19:01 -0800
                                                                                                                                                Re: Effect of CPP tags David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-12 09:52 +0100
                                                                                                                                            Re: Effect of CPP tags Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-11 09:41 -0800
                                                                                                                                            Re: Effect of CPP tags Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-01-14 09:20 -0800
                                                                                                                                    Re: Effect of CPP tags David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-11 13:24 +0100
                                                                                                                                      Re: Effect of CPP tags bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-01-11 13:45 +0000
                                                                                                                                        Re: Effect of CPP tags David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-11 14:55 +0100
                                                                                                                                      Re: Effect of CPP tags "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-01-11 12:27 -0800
                                                                                                                                      Re: Effect of CPP tags "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-01-12 16:04 -0800
                                                                                                                                        Re: Effect of CPP tags Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-12 16:24 -0800
                                                                                                                                          Re: Effect of CPP tags "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-01-12 16:36 -0800
                                                                                                                                            Re: Effect of CPP tags "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-01-12 16:43 -0800
                                                                                                                              Re: Effect of CPP tags "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-01-10 19:36 -0800
                                                                                                                Re: Effect of CPP tags James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2024-01-09 20:05 -0500
                                                                                                                  Re: Effect of CPP tags "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-01-12 15:54 -0800
                                                                                                                Re: Effect of CPP tags Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-10 01:32 +0000
                                                                                                                  Re: Effect of CPP tags "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-01-12 15:45 -0800
                                                                                                              Re: Effect of CPP tags "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-01-10 19:33 -0800
                                                                                                                Re: Effect of CPP tags "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-01-12 15:48 -0800
                                                                                                                  Re: Effect of CPP tags "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-01-12 15:49 -0800
                                                                                                        Re: Effect of CPP tags Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-09 22:12 +0000
                                                                                                          Re: Effect of CPP tags David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-10 11:23 +0100
                                                                                                            Re: Effect of CPP tags Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-10 19:23 +0000
                                                                                                              Re: Effect of CPP tags David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-10 20:46 +0100
                                                                                                        Re: Effect of CPP tags David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-10 08:21 +0100
                                                                                                    Re: Effect of CPP tags Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-09 19:20 +0000
                                                                                                      Re: Effect of CPP tags Bart <bc@freeuk.cm> - 2024-01-09 20:01 +0000
                                                                                                        Re: Effect of CPP tags Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-09 13:12 -0800
                                                                                                        Re: Effect of CPP tags Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-09 21:37 +0000
                                                                                                        Re: Effect of CPP tags Ike Naar <ike@sdf.org> - 2024-01-09 21:51 +0000
                                                                                                      Re: Effect of CPP tags James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2024-01-09 16:42 -0500
                                                                                                    Re: Effect of CPP tags Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-09 12:04 -0800
                                                                                                Re: Effect of CPP tags Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-09 18:12 +0000
                                                                                                  Re: Effect of CPP tags Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-09 12:11 -0800
                                                                                                    Re: Effect of CPP tags Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-09 21:51 +0000
                                                                                          Re: Effect of CPP tags Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-09 01:50 +0000
                                                                                            Re: Effect of CPP tags Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-01-08 22:28 -0800
                                                                                      Re: Effect of CPP tags Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-09 07:38 +0000
                                                                            Re: Effect of CPP tags Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-07 02:12 +0100
                                                                              Re: Effect of CPP tags Bart <bc@freeuk.cm> - 2024-01-07 01:45 +0000
                                                                                Re: Effect of CPP tags Bart <bc@freeuk.cm> - 2024-01-07 01:47 +0000
                                                                              Re: Effect of CPP tags Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-07 02:16 +0000
                                                                          Re: Effect of CPP tags Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-06 17:15 -0800
                                                                            Re: Effect of CPP tags Bart <bc@freeuk.cm> - 2024-01-07 02:25 +0000
                                                                              Re: Effect of CPP tags Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-06 19:28 -0800
                                                                                Re: Effect of CPP tags Bart <bc@freeuk.cm> - 2024-01-07 15:26 +0000
                                                                                  Re: Effect of CPP tags Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-07 15:51 -0800
                                                                                    Re: Effect of CPP tags Bart <bc@freeuk.cm> - 2024-01-08 01:32 +0000
                                                                                      Re: Effect of CPP tags Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-07 20:35 -0800
                                                                                        Re: Effect of CPP tags Bart <bc@freeuk.cm> - 2024-01-08 13:28 +0000
                                                                                          Re: Effect of CPP tags Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-08 10:25 -0800
                                                                                            Re: Effect of CPP tags Bart <bc@freeuk.cm> - 2024-01-08 18:55 +0000
                                                                                              Re: Effect of CPP tags Bart <bc@freeuk.cm> - 2024-01-08 19:01 +0000
                                                                                                Re: Effect of CPP tags Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-08 11:22 -0800
                                                                                              Re: Effect of CPP tags Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-08 11:21 -0800
                                                                                      Re: Effect of CPP tags David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-08 16:00 +0100
                                                                                        Re: Effect of CPP tags Bart <bc@freeuk.cm> - 2024-01-08 18:02 +0000
                                                                                          Re: Effect of CPP tags Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-08 10:39 -0800
                                                                                          Re: Effect of CPP tags David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-08 21:36 +0100
                                                                                        Re: Effect of CPP tags Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-08 10:32 -0800
                                                                                          Re: Effect of CPP tags David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-08 21:41 +0100
                                                                                    Re: Effect of CPP tags Ike Naar <ike@sdf.org> - 2024-01-08 08:53 +0000
                                                                                      Re: Effect of CPP tags Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-08 09:59 -0800
                                                                    Re: Effect of CPP tags Bart <bc@freeuk.cm> - 2024-01-06 12:53 +0000
                                                                      Re: Effect of CPP tags Bart <bc@freeuk.cm> - 2024-01-06 14:11 +0000
                                                                      Re: Effect of CPP tags David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-06 15:28 +0100
                                                                        Re: Effect of CPP tags Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-01-06 09:56 -0500
                                                                          Re: Effect of CPP tags Bart <bc@freeuk.cm> - 2024-01-06 15:57 +0000
                                                                            Re: Effect of CPP tags Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-06 23:58 +0000
                                                                          Re: Effect of CPP tags Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-06 23:45 +0000
                                                                            Re: Effect of CPP tags Bart <bc@freeuk.cm> - 2024-01-07 00:21 +0000
                                                                              Re: Effect of CPP tags Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-07 00:55 +0000
                                                                                Re: Effect of CPP tags Bart <bc@freeuk.cm> - 2024-01-07 01:26 +0000
                                                                                  Re: Effect of CPP tags Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-07 02:14 +0000
                                                                                    Re: Effect of CPP tags Bart <bc@freeuk.cm> - 2024-01-07 12:14 +0000
                                                                                      Re: Effect of CPP tags Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-07 19:29 +0000
                                                                                        Re: Effect of CPP tags Bart <bc@freeuk.cm> - 2024-01-07 22:41 +0000
                                                                                          Re: Effect of CPP tags Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-07 23:27 +0000
                                                                        Re: Effect of CPP tags Bart <bc@freeuk.cm> - 2024-01-06 15:43 +0000
                                                                      Re: Effect of CPP tags Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-07 03:32 +0000
                                                                        Re: Effect of CPP tags Bart <bc@freeuk.cm> - 2024-01-07 11:37 +0000
                                                                          Re: Effect of CPP tags Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-07 14:41 -0800
                                                                            Re: Effect of CPP tags Bart <bc@freeuk.cm> - 2024-01-07 22:54 +0000
                                                                              Re: Effect of CPP tags Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-07 16:06 -0800
                                                              Re: Effect of CPP tags scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-05 15:54 +0000
                                                                Re: Effect of CPP tags Bart <bc@freeuk.cm> - 2024-01-05 16:23 +0000
                                            Re: Effect of CPP tags David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-04 09:55 +0100
                                              Re: Effect of CPP tags Bart <bc@freeuk.cm> - 2024-01-04 12:15 +0000
                                                Re: Effect of CPP tags David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-04 15:29 +0100
                                                Re: Effect of CPP tags tTh <tth@none.invalid> - 2024-01-06 05:33 +0100
                                Re: Effect of CPP tags David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-03 17:41 +0100
                                  Re: Effect of CPP tags Bart <bc@freeuk.cm> - 2024-01-03 21:32 +0000
                                    Re: Effect of CPP tags David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-04 15:13 +0100
                                  Re: Effect of CPP tags Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-03 13:42 -0800
                                    Re: Effect of CPP tags David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-04 12:46 +0100
                                      Re: Effect of CPP tags Bart <bc@freeuk.cm> - 2024-01-04 12:37 +0000
                                        Re: Effect of CPP tags James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2024-01-04 12:51 -0500
                                          Re: Effect of CPP tags Bart <bc@freeuk.cm> - 2024-01-04 18:21 +0000
                                            Re: Effect of CPP tags Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-04 10:43 -0800
                                            Re: Effect of CPP tags James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2024-01-04 17:39 -0500
                                      Re: Effect of CPP tags James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2024-01-04 12:33 -0500
                                      Re: Effect of CPP tags Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-04 10:36 -0800
                                        Re: Effect of CPP tags David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-04 21:59 +0100
                        Re: Effect of CPP tags Blue-Maned_Hawk <bluemanedhawk@invalid.invalid> - 2024-01-02 15:10 +0000
                          Re: Effect of CPP tags Bart <bc@freeuk.cm> - 2024-01-02 16:38 +0000
                            Re: Effect of CPP tags Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-02 20:23 +0100
                              Re: Effect of CPP tags Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-02 19:35 +0000
                                Re: Effect of CPP tags Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-02 20:54 +0100
                                  Re: Effect of CPP tags David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-01-03 20:28 +0100
                      Re: Effect of CPP tags Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-01 21:45 +0000
                        Re: Effect of CPP tags Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-01 23:08 +0000
                    Re: Effect of CPP tags Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-02 18:16 +0000
                      Re: Effect of CPP tags Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-02 19:05 +0000
                        Re: Effect of CPP tags Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-02 21:45 +0000
        Re: Effect of CPP tags Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2023-12-29 11:58 -0500
        Re: Effect of CPP tags Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2023-12-29 17:44 +0000
          Re: Effect of CPP tags Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-12-29 10:54 -0800
            Re: Effect of CPP tags Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2023-12-29 20:19 +0000
        Re: Effect of CPP tags Blue-Maned_Hawk <bluemanedhawk@invalid.invalid> - 2023-12-30 06:51 +0000
          Re: Effect of CPP tags BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2023-12-30 16:16 -0600
            Re: Effect of CPP tags Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2023-12-30 23:21 +0000
              Re: Effect of CPP tags BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2023-12-30 19:14 -0600
                Re: Effect of CPP tags Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2023-12-31 01:34 +0000
                  Re: Effect of CPP tags Bart <bc@freeuk.cm> - 2023-12-31 02:18 +0000
                    Re: Effect of CPP tags BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2023-12-30 23:46 -0600
                      Re: Effect of CPP tags Bart <bc@freeuk.cm> - 2023-12-31 15:26 +0000
                        Re: Effect of CPP tags Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2023-12-31 17:26 +0000
                          Re: Effect of CPP tags Bart <bc@freeuk.cm> - 2023-12-31 19:23 +0000
                            Re: Effect of CPP tags Richard Damon <news.x.richarddamon@xoxy.net> - 2023-12-31 14:46 -0500
                        Re: Effect of CPP tags BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2023-12-31 15:49 -0600
                    Re: Effect of CPP tags Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2023-12-31 23:46 +0000
                      Re: Effect of CPP tags Bart <bc@freeuk.cm> - 2024-01-01 01:33 +0000
                        Re: Effect of CPP tags Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-01 02:00 +0000
                          Re: Effect of CPP tags Bart <bc@freeuk.cm> - 2024-01-01 11:56 +0000
                            Re: Effect of CPP tags BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2024-01-01 13:06 -0600
                              Re: Effect of CPP tags Bart <bc@freeuk.cm> - 2024-01-01 20:13 +0000
                                Re: Effect of CPP tags BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2024-01-01 20:20 -0600
                                  Re: Effect of CPP tags Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-02 02:34 +0000
                              Re: Effect of CPP tags Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-01 21:39 +0000
                            Re: Effect of CPP tags Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-01 21:38 +0000
                              Re: Effect of CPP tags Bart <bc@freeuk.cm> - 2024-01-01 22:51 +0000
                                Re: Effect of CPP tags Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-01 23:10 +0000
                                  Re: Effect of CPP tags Bart <bc@freeuk.cm> - 2024-01-01 23:45 +0000
                                    Re: Effect of CPP tags Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-02 00:05 +0000
                                      Re: Effect of CPP tags Bart <bc@freeuk.cm> - 2024-01-02 01:14 +0000
                                        Re: Effect of CPP tags Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-02 01:58 +0000
                                        Re: Effect of CPP tags "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-01-01 20:41 -0800
                                        Re: Effect of CPP tags "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-01-16 22:21 -0800
                                      Re: Effect of CPP tags Kaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com> - 2024-01-02 06:23 +0000
                                        Re: Effect of CPP tags Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-02 06:47 +0000
                                          Re: Effect of CPP tags Bart <bc@freeuk.cm> - 2024-01-02 12:24 +0000
                                            Re: Effect of CPP tags Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-02 19:04 +0000
                                            Re: Effect of CPP tags scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-02 20:11 +0000
                                              Re: Effect of CPP tags Bart <bc@freeuk.cm> - 2024-01-02 20:43 +0000
                                                Re: Effect of CPP tags scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-02 23:55 +0000
                                                  Re: Effect of CPP tags Bart <bc@freeuk.cm> - 2024-01-03 02:08 +0000
                                                    Re: Effect of CPP tags Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-03 02:40 +0000
                                                      Re: Effect of CPP tags Bart <bc@freeuk.cm> - 2024-01-03 12:10 +0000
                                                        Re: Effect of CPP tags Bart <bc@freeuk.cm> - 2024-01-03 13:03 +0000
                                                          Re: Effect of CPP tags Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-03 19:14 +0000
                                                        Re: Effect of CPP tags scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-03 15:33 +0000
                                                          Re: Effect of CPP tags Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-01-03 08:37 -0800
                              Re: Effect of CPP tags "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-01-01 15:54 -0800
                              Re: Effect of CPP tags scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-01-02 20:05 +0000
                          Re: Effect of CPP tags Blue-Maned_Hawk <bluemanedhawk@invalid.invalid> - 2024-01-01 15:45 +0000
                      Re: Effect of CPP tags "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-12-31 20:06 -0800
                        Re: Effect of CPP tags Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-01 04:48 +0000
                          Re: Effect of CPP tags "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-12-31 23:00 -0800
                            Re: Effect of CPP tags Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-01 21:40 +0000
                              Re: Effect of CPP tags "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-01-01 15:49 -0800
                                Re: Effect of CPP tags Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-01-02 00:06 +0000
                                  Re: Effect of CPP tags "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-01-01 16:29 -0800
                                  Re: Effect of CPP tags "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-01-01 16:38 -0800
                          Re: Effect of CPP tags "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-12-31 23:01 -0800
            Re: Effect of CPP tags scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-12-31 18:37 +0000
              Re: Effect of CPP tags BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2023-12-31 16:59 -0600
        Re: Effect of CPP tags Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2023-12-30 20:12 +0000
    Re: Effect of CPP tags Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-12-31 16:07 -0800
      Re: Effect of CPP tags Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-12-31 16:36 -0800
        Re: Effect of CPP tags Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-12-31 18:31 -0800
          Re: Effect of CPP tags Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-12-31 19:08 -0800
            Re: Effect of CPP tags Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-01-21 12:36 -0800
      Re: Effect of CPP tags Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-01 05:56 +0100
        Re: Effect of CPP tags "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-12-31 22:59 -0800
        Re: Effect of CPP tags Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-01-08 22:20 -0800

Page 8 of 34 — ← Prev page 1 … 6 7 [8] 9 10 … 34  Next page →


#379874

FromKeith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com>
Date2024-01-05 18:17 -0800
Message-ID<87o7dzryrf.fsf@nosuchdomain.example.com>
In reply to#379871
Bart <bc@freeuk.cm> writes:
> On 05/01/2024 23:02, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
>> Bart <bc@freeuk.cm> writes:
>>> In C, sizeof() is usually compile-time, except when used on VLAs,
>    and here,
>>> as usual for VLAs, it is a lot more complicated than you'd think:
>>>
>>> --------
>>> #include <stdio.h>
>>> #include <stdlib.h>
>>>
>>> int main(void) {
>>>      int n=rand()+1;
>>>      typedef char (**T)[n];
>>>      n=-777;
>>>
>>>      T x;
>>>
>>>      printf("%zu\n", sizeof(**x));
>>> }
>>> --------
>>>
>>> This actually displays 42 (really!). 'x' is a pointer (to a pointer to
>>> array). There is no actual array allocated.
>>
>> More to the point, x is uninitialised and thus evaluating sizeof **x is
>> undefined behaviour.  gcc has some flags that could have helped you to
>> find that out.
>
> I actually don't know if it's evaluating it or not. Why on earth
> should it? If I change the program to print the original 'n', it is 42
> too. So it doesn't need to evaluate **x to get that dimension.

The C standard currently says:

    The sizeof operator yields the size (in bytes) of its operand, which
    may be an expression or the parenthesized name of a type. The size
    is determined from the type of the operand. The result is an
    integer. If the type of the operand is a variable length array type,
    the operand is evaluated; otherwise, the operand is not evaluated
    and the result is an integer constant.

The idea that the operand is "evaluated" is problematic.  For example,
if the argument is a parenthesized type name, it's not clear what it
means to "evaluate" it.  And there are cases (mostly contrived) where
the rule results in side effects that aren't actually necessary to
determine the size.

If I write:

    int n = rand() % 10 + 1;
    int vla[n];
    printf("%zu\n", sizeof vla);

then the standard says that the expression `vla` is "evaluated".  Since
it's of array type, that would logically involve retrieving the values
of each of its elements (there's no array-to-pointer conversion in this
context), which would have undefined behavior because they're
uninitialized.  It's fairly clear that wasn't the intent; the only thing
that needs to be evaluated is the implicit metadata that gives the size
of the array.

Jens Gustedt has written a proposal to address this, probably in C26.
See <https://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg14/www/docs/n3187.htm>.

In practice, applying sizeof to a VLA type, or to a named object of VLA
type, doesn't create any conceptual problems, and those are by far the
most common cases.

When a variable length array type is created, its length is determined
when execution reaches the definition, and the compiler generates code
to implicitly store that information somewhere for later use.  If the
length expression happens to be the name of an object, any later changes
to the value of the object do not affect the VLA type or its size or
length; I suggest you stop being surprised by that fact.  Applying sizeof
to a VLA type or object retrieves the stored size.

[...]

-- 
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com
Working, but not speaking, for Medtronic
void Void(void) { Void(); } /* The recursive call of the void */

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#379878

FromDavid Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Date2024-01-06 10:09 +0100
Message-ID<unb5d3$hum9$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#379866
On 05/01/2024 23:19, Bart wrote:
> On 05/01/2024 14:05, David Brown wrote:
>> On 05/01/2024 02:53, Bart wrote:
> 
>>> It doesn't need to take a heavy-handed approach like C++ or Python.
>>>
>>
>> One option for a useful array length operator/function/macro is a 
>> simple and limited feature that works for arrays of known size and 
>> gives a hard (compile-time) error when the size is not known.  The one 
>> you have in your own language covers most of that, except for the 
>> insanity of evaluating to 0 when given a pointer/reference to an 
>> "unbounded" array.
> 
> It gives zero because that is actually the compile-time type of the 
> array. But it is low priority because it is never used that way.
> 

That's the kind of potentially confusing short-cut you can make when 
only you ever use the language.  It is also fine for when people make 
their own array_length macros for use in their own code.  When you know 
all the details of the operator/macro/function, and you are the only one 
using it, it's okay if the specification is weird and unhelpful for some 
cases.  It's a different matter entirely if you are making something 
that other people will use.

> 
> In C, sizeof() is usually compile-time, except when used on VLAs, and 
> here, as usual for VLAs, it is a lot more complicated than you'd think:
> 

No it is not.  I don't think "garbage in, garbage out" is a complicated 
concept.  You can write pathological shit in any language and get 
meaningless results out - it has no bearing on anything in real code. 
(It can be fun to play around with, but it does not mean there is a 
problem with the language feature.)

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#379879

FromBart <bc@freeuk.cm>
Date2024-01-06 10:27 +0000
Message-ID<unb9uk$igst$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#379878
On 06/01/2024 09:09, David Brown wrote:
> On 05/01/2024 23:19, Bart wrote:
>> On 05/01/2024 14:05, David Brown wrote:
>>> On 05/01/2024 02:53, Bart wrote:
>>
>>>> It doesn't need to take a heavy-handed approach like C++ or Python.
>>>>
>>>
>>> One option for a useful array length operator/function/macro is a 
>>> simple and limited feature that works for arrays of known size and 
>>> gives a hard (compile-time) error when the size is not known.  The 
>>> one you have in your own language covers most of that, except for the 
>>> insanity of evaluating to 0 when given a pointer/reference to an 
>>> "unbounded" array.
>>
>> It gives zero because that is actually the compile-time type of the 
>> array. But it is low priority because it is never used that way.
>>
> 
> That's the kind of potentially confusing short-cut you can make when 
> only you ever use the language.  It is also fine for when people make 
> their own array_length macros for use in their own code.  When you know 
> all the details of the operator/macro/function, and you are the only one 
> using it, it's okay if the specification is weird and unhelpful for some 
> cases.  It's a different matter entirely if you are making something 
> that other people will use.
> 
>>
>> In C, sizeof() is usually compile-time, except when used on VLAs, and 
>> here, as usual for VLAs, it is a lot more complicated than you'd think:
>>
> 
> No it is not.  I don't think "garbage in, garbage out" is a complicated 
> concept.  You can write pathological shit in any language and get 
> meaningless results out - it has no bearing on anything in real code. 
> (It can be fun to play around with, but it does not mean there is a 
> problem with the language feature.)


And yet, in my example, lccwin32 gave the wrong result, and in one case 
crashed. (I no longer have other smaller C compilers to try out.)

It suggests the problem is not trivial.

The concept is not that easy to get your head around either, the idea 
that the variable aspects of a VLA are associated with its type, not its 
value or instance.

In my example, there were no instances of any actual arrays, not even if 
I declared an instance of one of the pointers involved, yet space had to 
be allocated for its size. And I kept the type simple.

I remember also trying out VLAs within a struct, and there I got a wider 
variance of results.

You can keep saying that VLAs are trivial to understand and implement; I 
won't believe you.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#379882

FromDavid Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Date2024-01-06 15:23 +0100
Message-ID<unbnpa$koa8$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#379879
On 06/01/2024 11:27, Bart wrote:
> On 06/01/2024 09:09, David Brown wrote:
>> On 05/01/2024 23:19, Bart wrote:
>>> On 05/01/2024 14:05, David Brown wrote:
>>>> On 05/01/2024 02:53, Bart wrote:
>>>
>>>>> It doesn't need to take a heavy-handed approach like C++ or Python.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> One option for a useful array length operator/function/macro is a 
>>>> simple and limited feature that works for arrays of known size and 
>>>> gives a hard (compile-time) error when the size is not known.  The 
>>>> one you have in your own language covers most of that, except for 
>>>> the insanity of evaluating to 0 when given a pointer/reference to an 
>>>> "unbounded" array.
>>>
>>> It gives zero because that is actually the compile-time type of the 
>>> array. But it is low priority because it is never used that way.
>>>
>>
>> That's the kind of potentially confusing short-cut you can make when 
>> only you ever use the language.  It is also fine for when people make 
>> their own array_length macros for use in their own code.  When you 
>> know all the details of the operator/macro/function, and you are the 
>> only one using it, it's okay if the specification is weird and 
>> unhelpful for some cases.  It's a different matter entirely if you are 
>> making something that other people will use.
>>
>>>
>>> In C, sizeof() is usually compile-time, except when used on VLAs, and 
>>> here, as usual for VLAs, it is a lot more complicated than you'd think:
>>>
>>
>> No it is not.  I don't think "garbage in, garbage out" is a 
>> complicated concept.  You can write pathological shit in any language 
>> and get meaningless results out - it has no bearing on anything in 
>> real code. (It can be fun to play around with, but it does not mean 
>> there is a problem with the language feature.)
> 
> 
> And yet, in my example, lccwin32 gave the wrong result, and in one case 
> crashed. (I no longer have other smaller C compilers to try out.)
> 
> It suggests the problem is not trivial.

So what you are telling us is that a relatively simple and little-used 
compiler has bugs in dealing with pathological cases of code 
intentionally designed to be difficult and be far from any kind of 
realistic code?  Are we supposed to be surprised?  I'm sure the lccwin32 
author will be interested in the test case, because such extreme 
corner-case testing is useful for finding bugs in software - but it is 
only of interest to him and not to anyone actually writing C code.  (And 
in this case, since your code has UB, there is no such thing as a 
correct result - and therefore no possibility of a wrong result.)

> 
> The concept is not that easy to get your head around either, the idea 
> that the variable aspects of a VLA are associated with its type, not its 
> value or instance.

If you find VLA's difficult, don't use them.  Even if you were 
interested in making your tools compliant, they are optional from C11 
onwards.  Since you are the only person who uses your tools, and you 
won't write C code with VLAs, you have nothing to lose by ignoring them 
entirely.

> 
> In my example, there were no instances of any actual arrays, not even if 
> I declared an instance of one of the pointers involved, yet space had to 
> be allocated for its size. And I kept the type simple.
> 
> I remember also trying out VLAs within a struct, and there I got a wider 
> variance of results.
> 
> You can keep saying that VLAs are trivial to understand and implement; I 
> won't believe you.
> 

OK.  Don't believe me.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#379887

FromKeith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com>
Date2024-01-06 13:40 -0800
Message-ID<87jzomrvh8.fsf@nosuchdomain.example.com>
In reply to#379879
Bart <bc@freeuk.cm> writes:
[...]
> The concept is not that easy to get your head around either, the idea
> that the variable aspects of a VLA are associated with its type, not
> its value or instance.

Oh?  I don't find it difficult at all.  It's the kind of thing you learn
once, and then you know it.  Now you know it, but you're still
complaining for some reason.

There are some complications regarding applying sizeof to a VLA type or
expression.  I've cited a proposal to clean that up in a future
standard.  The complications rarely affect non-contrived code.

> In my example, there were no instances of any actual arrays, not even
> if I declared an instance of one of the pointers involved, yet space
> had to be allocated for its size. And I kept the type simple.

Sure, space is allocated for the type's size.  That space is implicit,
and is logically associated with the type.  That seems straightforward
to me.  (In fact the standard doesn't say how the size is stored, but
creating and initializing an implicit object associated with the type is
the obvious approach.)

> I remember also trying out VLAs within a struct, and there I got a
> wider variance of results.

The language does not allow VLAs within a struct; see N1570 6.7.2.1p9.
Some compilers support them as an extension.  As usual, you do your
testing with a variety of *non-conforming* compilers and reach
conclusions about how inconsistent the language itself appears to be.

Most C compilers have options to tell them to attempt to conform to a
specified edition of the standard (e.g., `gcc -std=c17 -pedantic` or
`gcc -std=c17 -pedantic-errors`).  I strongly suggest using those
options if you're trying to learn something about the language itself.
It will save you (and us) a lot of time.

And please don't pretend that I've said that it's a good thing that most
C compilers are non-conforming by default, and that it's (slightly)
difficult to get them to attempt to conform.  I'm describing how they
work, not expressing an opinion.

> You can keep saying that VLAs are trivial to understand and implement;
> I won't believe you.

I don't recall anyone saying they're trivial.  Apparently you have
trouble understanding them.  Feel free to ask questions.  They're not as
difficult as you want to believe them to be.

-- 
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com
Working, but not speaking, for Medtronic
void Void(void) { Void(); } /* The recursive call of the void */

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#379890

FromBart <bc@freeuk.cm>
Date2024-01-07 00:09 +0000
Message-ID<uncq37$pvae$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#379887
On 06/01/2024 21:40, Keith Thompson wrote:
> Bart <bc@freeuk.cm> writes:
> [...]
>> The concept is not that easy to get your head around either, the idea
>> that the variable aspects of a VLA are associated with its type, not
>> its value or instance.
> 
> Oh?  I don't find it difficult at all.  It's the kind of thing you learn
> once, and then you know it.  Now you know it, but you're still
> complaining for some reason.

Maybe you've never had to implement it. It is certainly not intuitive:

     int n=rand();

     typedef int T[n];   // here the size is stored with the type

     int A[n];           // here you'd expect it with each variable
     int B[n];
     T C[n];             // and here in both

You might also expect the data of those variables to go on the stack. 
But here:

     T** P;

it presumably goes on the heap, when you get around to allocating it.

Despite all the complexity associated with VLAs (for example managing 17 
active VLA allocations on the stack, and assorted VLA typedefs that are 
now executable code) as you goto in and out of nested block scopes), 
when you pass a VLA 'A' for example to a function, you still have to 
supply the size or length separately.

With the far simpler slice mechanism that I mentioned several posts 
back, that includes the length.

The reason I brought up VLAs at all was because the language skipped a 
simple-to-implement and potentially more useful feature, for a much 
harder one.

If I was to independently add a VLA-like feature to C, I would base it 
on slices. And I would allow them only at the top level of data 
structures, not nested, nor within conventional arrays, nor as a pointer 
target (if the memory management is to be automatic).

They would also use heap storage not stack. And there would no dynamic 
elements within typedefs; the actual size is an attribute of the 
variable instance. Typedefs stay a purely compile-time artefact.

That would cover 99% of the ways that VLAs are typically used, of which 
I believe a big chunk are inadvertent.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#379891

FromLawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
Date2024-01-07 00:16 +0000
Message-ID<uncqg5$pust$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#379890
On Sun, 7 Jan 2024 00:09:11 +0000, Bart wrote:

>      typedef int T[n];   // here the size is stored with the type
> 
>      int A[n];           // here you'd expect it with each variable int
>      B[n];
>      T C[n];             // and here in both

The array size is in the wrong place. Java at least puts it in a more 
natural place:

    int[n] A;
    ... etc ...

though unfortunately it forgets to include typedefs.

Type specifications in C are all backwards, anyway. They should have 
adopted the Pascal syntax for that.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#379893

FromKeith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com>
Date2024-01-06 16:40 -0800
Message-ID<87cyuern6k.fsf@nosuchdomain.example.com>
In reply to#379891
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> writes:
> On Sun, 7 Jan 2024 00:09:11 +0000, Bart wrote:
>
>>      typedef int T[n];   // here the size is stored with the type
>> 
>>      int A[n];           // here you'd expect it with each variable int
>>      B[n];
>>      T C[n];             // and here in both
>
> The array size is in the wrong place. Java at least puts it in a more 
> natural place:
>
>     int[n] A;
>     ... etc ...
>
> though unfortunately it forgets to include typedefs.
>
> Type specifications in C are all backwards, anyway. They should have 
> adopted the Pascal syntax for that.

C uses a "declaration follows usage" rule (though not with 100%
consistency).

For example, a declaration like:

    int *foo[42];

ultimately means "declare foo as array 42 of int" (that's what the
"cdecl" program tells you), but you can think of it as declaration that
the expression `*foo[42]` is of type int.  It follows from that that
`foo[42]` is of type int*, and that `foo` is of type int *[42], or
pointer to array 42 of int.

Recall that I mentioned that it's not 100% consistent.  foo[42] doesn't
exist (valid indices are 0 to 41), but the point is that it would have
type int* if it existed.

See question 1.21 of the comp.lang.c FAQ, <https://www.c-faq.com/>.

I personally agree with you that C would have been easier with a
different declaration syntax, closer to the way you'd describe it in
English, but it will never be changed in any language named "C", so
there's not much point in worrying about it.

-- 
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com
Working, but not speaking, for Medtronic
void Void(void) { Void(); } /* The recursive call of the void */

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#379895

FromLawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
Date2024-01-07 00:58 +0000
Message-ID<unct09$q65q$4@dont-email.me>
In reply to#379893
On Sat, 06 Jan 2024 16:40:03 -0800, Keith Thompson wrote:

> C uses a "declaration follows usage" rule (though not with 100%
> consistency).

And putting the function result before the argument types turns out to 
cause trouble when carried over to C++, when you try to express 
dependencies between them. So they had to add a Pascal-style alternative 
syntax, with the function result declared after the arguments.

Even pointer dereferencing should have been done with a postfix, not a 
prefix operator. Consider why you need “->”: it’s purely syntactic sugar
to make things like

   (*a).b

less awkward as

    a->b

Whereas in Pascal, for example, there is no need for any alternative 
syntax to

    a^.b

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#379906

FromKaz Kylheku <433-929-6894@kylheku.com>
Date2024-01-07 03:30 +0000
Message-ID<20240106192622.558@kylheku.com>
In reply to#379895
On 2024-01-07, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
> On Sat, 06 Jan 2024 16:40:03 -0800, Keith Thompson wrote:
>
>> C uses a "declaration follows usage" rule (though not with 100%
>> consistency).
>
> And putting the function result before the argument types turns out to 
> cause trouble when carried over to C++, when you try to express 
> dependencies between them. So they had to add a Pascal-style alternative 
> syntax, with the function result declared after the arguments.

In this millennium, you can have dependencies that flow opposite
to the lexical order of tokens.

C++ itself has no problem having inline function in a class declaration
mutually call each other, without any forward declarations.

-- 
TXR Programming Language: http://nongnu.org/txr
Cygnal: Cygwin Native Application Library: http://kylheku.com/cygnal
Mastodon: @Kazinator@mstdn.ca
NOTE: If you use Google Groups, I don't see you, unless you're whitelisted.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#379910

FromDavid Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Date2024-01-07 15:48 +0100
Message-ID<unedki$13tlb$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#379895
On 07/01/2024 01:58, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
> On Sat, 06 Jan 2024 16:40:03 -0800, Keith Thompson wrote:
> 
>> C uses a "declaration follows usage" rule (though not with 100%
>> consistency).
> 
> And putting the function result before the argument types turns out to
> cause trouble when carried over to C++, when you try to express
> dependencies between them. So they had to add a Pascal-style alternative
> syntax, with the function result declared after the arguments.
> 
> Even pointer dereferencing should have been done with a postfix, not a
> prefix operator. Consider why you need “->”: it’s purely syntactic sugar
> to make things like
> 
>     (*a).b
> 
> less awkward as
> 
>      a->b
> 
> Whereas in Pascal, for example, there is no need for any alternative
> syntax to
> 
>      a^.b

There are two kinds of programming languages.  There are ones that that 
exist long enough and are popular enough for people to see that the 
original design was not perfect and could have been done differently, 
and languages that die away to irrelevance before long.  No one thinks 
the C way of doing things, or its syntax, is perfect - but a lot of 
people think it is good enough that they can live with it.

A language has to either stick with the sub-optimal choices it made long 
ago, as C has done, or it can try to make changes and suffers from 
having to support new and old ideas, as C++ has done.  Each technique 
has its advantages and disadvantages.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#379912

FromBart <bc@freeuk.cm>
Date2024-01-07 15:34 +0000
Message-ID<unegb1$148mk$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#379910
On 07/01/2024 14:48, David Brown wrote:
> On 07/01/2024 01:58, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>> On Sat, 06 Jan 2024 16:40:03 -0800, Keith Thompson wrote:
>>
>>> C uses a "declaration follows usage" rule (though not with 100%
>>> consistency).
>>
>> And putting the function result before the argument types turns out to
>> cause trouble when carried over to C++, when you try to express
>> dependencies between them. So they had to add a Pascal-style alternative
>> syntax, with the function result declared after the arguments.
>>
>> Even pointer dereferencing should have been done with a postfix, not a
>> prefix operator. Consider why you need “->”: it’s purely syntactic sugar
>> to make things like
>>
>>     (*a).b
>>
>> less awkward as
>>
>>      a->b
>>
>> Whereas in Pascal, for example, there is no need for any alternative
>> syntax to
>>
>>      a^.b
> 
> There are two kinds of programming languages.  There are ones that that 
> exist long enough and are popular enough for people to see that the 
> original design was not perfect and could have been done differently, 
> and languages that die away to irrelevance before long.  No one thinks 
> the C way of doing things, or its syntax, is perfect - but a lot of 
> people think it is good enough that they can live with it.
> 
> A language has to either stick with the sub-optimal choices it made long 
> ago, as C has done, or it can try to make changes and suffers from 
> having to support new and old ideas, as C++ has done.  Each technique 
> has its advantages and disadvantages.

I used to have that a^.b syntax (deref pointer then index).

But for a few years I've relaxed that so that the deref is done 
automatically:

     a^.b     becomes    a.b
     a^[b]    becomes    a[b]
     a^(b)    becomes    a(b)

AFAICS, C can could also relax the (*a).b or a->b synax so that you just 
do a.b. You could do that today, and nothing changes. (Of course it 
would need a compiler update).

The others don't affect C so much: pointers to arrays, that would 
require (*a)[i], are rarely used. Everybody uses a[i] anyway with 'a' 
being a pointer to the first element.

And it already allows, via some mysterious rules, for (*a)(b) to be 
written as a(b).


[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#379923

FromDavid Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Date2024-01-08 13:50 +0100
Message-ID<ungr21$1hleq$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#379912
On 07/01/2024 16:34, Bart wrote:
> On 07/01/2024 14:48, David Brown wrote:
>> On 07/01/2024 01:58, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>> On Sat, 06 Jan 2024 16:40:03 -0800, Keith Thompson wrote:
>>>
>>>> C uses a "declaration follows usage" rule (though not with 100%
>>>> consistency).
>>>
>>> And putting the function result before the argument types turns out to
>>> cause trouble when carried over to C++, when you try to express
>>> dependencies between them. So they had to add a Pascal-style alternative
>>> syntax, with the function result declared after the arguments.
>>>
>>> Even pointer dereferencing should have been done with a postfix, not a
>>> prefix operator. Consider why you need “->”: it’s purely syntactic sugar
>>> to make things like
>>>
>>>     (*a).b
>>>
>>> less awkward as
>>>
>>>      a->b
>>>
>>> Whereas in Pascal, for example, there is no need for any alternative
>>> syntax to
>>>
>>>      a^.b
>>
>> There are two kinds of programming languages.  There are ones that 
>> that exist long enough and are popular enough for people to see that 
>> the original design was not perfect and could have been done 
>> differently, and languages that die away to irrelevance before long.  
>> No one thinks the C way of doing things, or its syntax, is perfect - 
>> but a lot of people think it is good enough that they can live with it.
>>
>> A language has to either stick with the sub-optimal choices it made 
>> long ago, as C has done, or it can try to make changes and suffers 
>> from having to support new and old ideas, as C++ has done.  Each 
>> technique has its advantages and disadvantages.
> 
> I used to have that a^.b syntax (deref pointer then index).
> 
> But for a few years I've relaxed that so that the deref is done 
> automatically:
> 
>      a^.b     becomes    a.b
>      a^[b]    becomes    a[b]
>      a^(b)    becomes    a(b)
> 
> AFAICS, C can could also relax the (*a).b or a->b synax so that you just 
> do a.b. You could do that today, and nothing changes. (Of course it 
> would need a compiler update).

You could, in the sense that (AFAICS) there would be no situation where 
in code today "a.b" and "a->b" were both syntactically and semantically 
correct but meant different things.  Then you could have a compiler 
treat the syntax or constraint error "a.b" as intending to mean "a->b".

I don't think it would be a good idea - I think it just adds confusion 
because you easily lose track of what are structs and what are pointers 
to structs.  I'd rather it be an error when you get these wrong in the 
code.  I remember from programming in Delphi (and Borland Object Pascal) 
it could often be hard to figure out what was a pointer to an object, 
and what was a "real" object, since dereferencing was automatic in some 
circumstances.  My personal preference is either to say that everything 
is always a reference (like Python), or everything is always a value 
(like C) and do the dereferencing explicitly.  Other people make think 
such automatic dereferencing is a good idea, but I personally don't.

> 
> The others don't affect C so much: pointers to arrays, that would 
> require (*a)[i], are rarely used. Everybody uses a[i] anyway with 'a' 
> being a pointer to the first element.
> 
> And it already allows, via some mysterious rules, for (*a)(b) to be 
> written as a(b).
> 

Think of it rather as C allows you to write function calls like 
"foo(x)", and that considering function names as being function pointers 
is a natural view that is easy to implement in compilers and keeps the C 
to assembly conversion as lean as possible - it means "foo" is the 
address of the function, rather than being the function itself.  Being 
able to write "foo(x)" as "(*foo)(x)" is just a byproduct of this - it 
would need extra rules added to C to disallow it.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#379926

FromBart <bc@freeuk.cm>
Date2024-01-08 15:53 +0000
Message-ID<unh5p4$1j81h$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#379923
On 08/01/2024 12:50, David Brown wrote:
> On 07/01/2024 16:34, Bart wrote:

>> I used to have that a^.b syntax (deref pointer then index).
>>
>> But for a few years I've relaxed that so that the deref is done 
>> automatically:
>>
>>      a^.b     becomes    a.b
>>      a^[b]    becomes    a[b]
>>      a^(b)    becomes    a(b)
>>
>> AFAICS, C can could also relax the (*a).b or a->b synax so that you 
>> just do a.b. You could do that today, and nothing changes. (Of course 
>> it would need a compiler update).
> 
> You could, in the sense that (AFAICS) there would be no situation where 
> in code today "a.b" and "a->b" were both syntactically and semantically 
> correct but meant different things.  Then you could have a compiler 
> treat the syntax or constraint error "a.b" as intending to mean "a->b".
> 
> I don't think it would be a good idea - I think it just adds confusion 
> because you easily lose track of what are structs and what are pointers 
> to structs. 

Yet this is exactly what happens with those other examples: you don't 
know if the X in X[i] has type T[] or T*. (The use of (*X)[i] when X is 
of type T(*)[] is rare.)

And you don't know if the F in F(x) is an actual function, or a pointer 
to a function.

The "->" alternate is anyway a little strange:

    (*P).m   can be written as  P->m
    (**Q).m  can only be reduced to (*Q)->m

So it only works on the last lot of indirection. There is also no 
euivalent of just (*P), "->" needs to specify a member name as it 
combines two operations.

> I'd rather it be an error when you get these wrong in the 
> code.

I had the same misgivings: there is a loss of transparency, but after I 
started using the auto-deref, the benefits outweighed that:

Code was remarkably free of clutter. (And in my case, I had sections of 
code that could often be ported as-is to/from my other language that 
didn't need those derefs.)

>  My personal preference is either to say that everything 
> is always a reference (like Python), or everything is always a value 
> (like C) and do the dereferencing explicitly.  Other people make think 
> such automatic dereferencing is a good idea, but I personally don't.

This can occur with reference parameters too: I believe you get the same 
thing in C++.


>>
>> The others don't affect C so much: pointers to arrays, that would 
>> require (*a)[i], are rarely used. Everybody uses a[i] anyway with 'a' 
>> being a pointer to the first element.
>>
>> And it already allows, via some mysterious rules, for (*a)(b) to be 
>> written as a(b).
>>
> 
> Think of it rather as C allows you to write function calls like 
> "foo(x)", and that considering function names as being function pointers 
> is a natural view that is easy to implement in compilers and keeps the C 
> to assembly conversion as lean as possible - it means "foo" is the 
> address of the function, rather than being the function itself.  Being 
> able to write "foo(x)" as "(*foo)(x)" is just a byproduct of this - it 
> would need extra rules added to C to disallow it.

It's worse than that. Given an actual function:

     void F(void){}

all of these calls are valid:

     (&F)();
     F();
     (*F)();
     (**F)();
     (***F)();
     (****F)();  // etc

across the half-dozen compilers I tried. Except for my 'mcc' which only 
allows up to (*F), and not (**F)() or beyond. I just thought it was silly.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#379936

FromDavid Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Date2024-01-08 20:50 +0100
Message-ID<unhjme$1ld24$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#379926
On 08/01/2024 16:53, Bart wrote:
> On 08/01/2024 12:50, David Brown wrote:
>> On 07/01/2024 16:34, Bart wrote:
> 
>>> I used to have that a^.b syntax (deref pointer then index).
>>>
>>> But for a few years I've relaxed that so that the deref is done 
>>> automatically:
>>>
>>>      a^.b     becomes    a.b
>>>      a^[b]    becomes    a[b]
>>>      a^(b)    becomes    a(b)
>>>
>>> AFAICS, C can could also relax the (*a).b or a->b synax so that you 
>>> just do a.b. You could do that today, and nothing changes. (Of course 
>>> it would need a compiler update).
>>
>> You could, in the sense that (AFAICS) there would be no situation 
>> where in code today "a.b" and "a->b" were both syntactically and 
>> semantically correct but meant different things.  Then you could have 
>> a compiler treat the syntax or constraint error "a.b" as intending to 
>> mean "a->b".
>>
>> I don't think it would be a good idea - I think it just adds confusion 
>> because you easily lose track of what are structs and what are 
>> pointers to structs. 
> 
> Yet this is exactly what happens with those other examples: you don't 
> know if the X in X[i] has type T[] or T*. (The use of (*X)[i] when X is 
> of type T(*)[] is rare.)
> 
> And you don't know if the F in F(x) is an actual function, or a pointer 
> to a function.
> 
> The "->" alternate is anyway a little strange:
> 
>     (*P).m   can be written as  P->m
>     (**Q).m  can only be reduced to (*Q)->m
> 
> So it only works on the last lot of indirection. There is also no 
> euivalent of just (*P), "->" needs to specify a member name as it 
> combines two operations.

Yes, the short-cut only works for the (by far) most common case.

> 
>> I'd rather it be an error when you get these wrong in the code.
> 
> I had the same misgivings: there is a loss of transparency, but after I 
> started using the auto-deref, the benefits outweighed that:
> 
> Code was remarkably free of clutter. (And in my case, I had sections of 
> code that could often be ported as-is to/from my other language that 
> didn't need those derefs.)
> 

I didn't like automatic dereferencing (but I could live with it - 
overall I found Delphi a very productive tool).  But that's a 
preference, and it is no surprise that other people have different 
preferences.

>>   My personal preference is either to say that everything is always a 
>> reference (like Python), or everything is always a value (like C) and 
>> do the dereferencing explicitly.  Other people make think such 
>> automatic dereferencing is a good idea, but I personally don't.
> 
> This can occur with reference parameters too: I believe you get the same 
> thing in C++.

Not quite - that's an easy and common misunderstanding.  (It is even 
more understandable for you, since your language uses "ref" to mean what 
is called a "pointer" in C and C++.)  References in C++ are not 
"auto-dereferenced pointers" - they are alternative names for objects. 
It is better to think of references as being ways to identify objects, 
and pointers as being indirect references.  C++ references are /not/ 
pointers.

> 
> 
>>>
>>> The others don't affect C so much: pointers to arrays, that would 
>>> require (*a)[i], are rarely used. Everybody uses a[i] anyway with 'a' 
>>> being a pointer to the first element.
>>>
>>> And it already allows, via some mysterious rules, for (*a)(b) to be 
>>> written as a(b).
>>>
>>
>> Think of it rather as C allows you to write function calls like 
>> "foo(x)", and that considering function names as being function 
>> pointers is a natural view that is easy to implement in compilers and 
>> keeps the C to assembly conversion as lean as possible - it means 
>> "foo" is the address of the function, rather than being the function 
>> itself.  Being able to write "foo(x)" as "(*foo)(x)" is just a 
>> byproduct of this - it would need extra rules added to C to disallow it.
> 
> It's worse than that.

No, it's not worse - it's just a side-effect of the convenience of 
notation.  Disallowing some of the forms you show below would require 
extra rules, adding complication to the standards, while allowing them 
is harmless (since people would not use them in code).

> Given an actual function:
> 
>      void F(void){}
> 
> all of these calls are valid:
> 
>      (&F)();
>      F();
>      (*F)();
>      (**F)();
>      (***F)();
>      (****F)();  // etc
> 
> across the half-dozen compilers I tried. Except for my 'mcc' which only 
> allows up to (*F), and not (**F)() or beyond. I just thought it was silly.
> 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#379939

FromBart <bc@freeuk.cm>
Date2024-01-09 01:05 +0000
Message-ID<uni64g$1nrsb$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#379936
On 08/01/2024 19:50, David Brown wrote:
> On 08/01/2024 16:53, Bart wrote:

>> This can occur with reference parameters too: I believe you get the 
>> same thing in C++.
> 
> Not quite - that's an easy and common misunderstanding.  (It is even 
> more understandable for you, since your language uses "ref" to mean what 
> is called a "pointer" in C and C++.)  References in C++ are not 
> "auto-dereferenced pointers" - they are alternative names for objects. 
> It is better to think of references as being ways to identify objects, 
> and pointers as being indirect references.  C++ references are /not/ 
> pointers.

They look like auto-dereferenced pointers to me:

---------------------------
#include <stdio.h>

void F1(int a)  {a = a + 1;}
void F2(int* a) {*a = *a + 1;}
void F3(int &a) {a = a + 1;}

int main(void) {

     int a=100, b=200, c=300;

     F1(a);
     F2(&b);
     F3(c);

     printf("a = %d, b = %d, c = %d\n", a, b, c);
}
---------------------------

This is C code except for F3 and the call to it. It was compiled as C++.

The output expected is '100 201 301'. F1 can't modify its caller's data. 
F2 can do so via explicit pointers. F3 does it via references.

But notice the body of F3 is identical to F1's; and so is the passed 
argument (doesn't need &).

You get the same behaviour as using pointers, but without explicit 
address-of ops on arguments, and deref ops on parameters.

But also, there is that same hidden deref so that you can't tell exactly 
what's going on unles you see that & in the argument list.

My languages use the same & in the argument list to indicate by-reference.


>> It's worse than that.
> 
> No, it's not worse - it's just a side-effect of the convenience of 
> notation.  Disallowing some of the forms you show below would require 
> extra rules, adding complication to the standards,

My MCC compiler seems to manage it (I'm not sure how), and my main 
compiler does even better: you can't even do the equivalent of (*F)(), 
because F is not a pointer to anything and can't be dereferenced.

(Yes, F by itself is still equal to &F, but not F().)

Whatever extra rules or logic are involved, they are insignificant 
compared to those for VLAs, or for mixed sign arithmetic, for the 
minimum groupings of {} around init data, or the algorithm for searching 
for includes files, ...

> while allowing them 
> is harmless (since people would not use them in code).

I suggested using .len on my unbounded arrays were harmless because they 
wouldn't be used; you disagreed...

It just looks sloppy to me that you can effectively dereference 
something an unlimited number of times; where is the type system in this?

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#379944

FromDavid Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Date2024-01-09 08:30 +0100
Message-ID<unislv$1u3j0$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#379939
On 09/01/2024 02:05, Bart wrote:
> On 08/01/2024 19:50, David Brown wrote:
>> On 08/01/2024 16:53, Bart wrote:
> 
>>> This can occur with reference parameters too: I believe you get the 
>>> same thing in C++.
>>
>> Not quite - that's an easy and common misunderstanding.  (It is even 
>> more understandable for you, since your language uses "ref" to mean 
>> what is called a "pointer" in C and C++.)  References in C++ are not 
>> "auto-dereferenced pointers" - they are alternative names for objects. 
>> It is better to think of references as being ways to identify objects, 
>> and pointers as being indirect references.  C++ references are /not/ 
>> pointers.
> 
> They look like auto-dereferenced pointers to me:
> 

I know they look like that at first glance, but they are not 
auto-dereferenced pointers.  It can sometimes be useful to understand 
that when you move references around (such as for function parameters), 
they are implemented as though they were a special kind of pointer - 
that tells you how efficient they are.  But conceptually, for their use 
and understanding, I don't think it is helpful.

> 
>>> It's worse than that.
>>
>> No, it's not worse - it's just a side-effect of the convenience of 
>> notation.  Disallowing some of the forms you show below would require 
>> extra rules, adding complication to the standards,
> 
> My MCC compiler seems to manage it (I'm not sure how), and my main 
> compiler does even better: you can't even do the equivalent of (*F)(), 
> because F is not a pointer to anything and can't be dereferenced.

How is that in any way "better"?  You have gone out of your way to make 
your compiler non-conforming for the sake of stopping something no one 
would ever write?  It all sounds a bit pointless (but harmless) to me.

> 
> (Yes, F by itself is still equal to &F, but not F().)
> 
> Whatever extra rules or logic are involved, they are insignificant 
> compared to those for VLAs, or for mixed sign arithmetic, for the 
> minimum groupings of {} around init data, or the algorithm for searching 
> for includes files, ...

Whataboutism is a strong sign that the person arguing has lost track of 
their point.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#379946

FromBart <bc@freeuk.cm>
Date2024-01-09 11:11 +0000
Message-ID<unj9l0$1vr6j$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#379944
On 09/01/2024 07:30, David Brown wrote:
> On 09/01/2024 02:05, Bart wrote:
>> On 08/01/2024 19:50, David Brown wrote:
>>> On 08/01/2024 16:53, Bart wrote:
>>
>>>> This can occur with reference parameters too: I believe you get the 
>>>> same thing in C++.
>>>
>>> Not quite - that's an easy and common misunderstanding.  (It is even 
>>> more understandable for you, since your language uses "ref" to mean 
>>> what is called a "pointer" in C and C++.)  References in C++ are not 
>>> "auto-dereferenced pointers" - they are alternative names for 
>>> objects. It is better to think of references as being ways to 
>>> identify objects, and pointers as being indirect references.  C++ 
>>> references are /not/ pointers.
>>
>> They look like auto-dereferenced pointers to me:
>>
> 
> I know they look like that at first glance, but they are not 
> auto-dereferenced pointers.  It can sometimes be useful to understand 
> that when you move references around (such as for function parameters), 
> they are implemented as though they were a special kind of pointer - 
> that tells you how efficient they are.  But conceptually, for their use 
> and understanding, I don't think it is helpful.
> 
>>
>>>> It's worse than that.
>>>
>>> No, it's not worse - it's just a side-effect of the convenience of 
>>> notation.  Disallowing some of the forms you show below would require 
>>> extra rules, adding complication to the standards,
>>
>> My MCC compiler seems to manage it (I'm not sure how), and my main 
>> compiler does even better: you can't even do the equivalent of (*F)(), 
>> because F is not a pointer to anything and can't be dereferenced.
> 
> How is that in any way "better"?  You have gone out of your way to make 
> your compiler non-conforming for the sake of stopping something no one 
> would ever write?  It all sounds a bit pointless (but harmless) to me.
> 
>>
>> (Yes, F by itself is still equal to &F, but not F().)
>>
>> Whatever extra rules or logic are involved, they are insignificant 
>> compared to those for VLAs, or for mixed sign arithmetic, for the 
>> minimum groupings of {} around init data, or the algorithm for 
>> searching for includes files, ...
> 
> Whataboutism is a strong sign that the person arguing has lost track of 
> their point.

Not at all. You are defending some crazy anomaly, that you find nowhere 
else, for some insubstantial reason.

It works like that because the language was poorly designed in the first 
place and nobody thought it worthwhile fixing it.

So it's just another quirk.

I quite like the idea that if you want to  do *X, then it better have a 
type like T*. Then the result of *X, ie. dereferencing X, will be T.

Now C does something odd: if T happens to be a function type, it 
immediately turns that result back into *T.

I used to have some rules (not in C but expressed as C) where, if F is 
an actual function and has function type:

            Type        Action

    &F      func*       Evaluate function reference
    F       func        Same as F()
    F(...)  func        Call the function (yielding func ret type)
    *F      ---         Error, not a pointer

I changed that to be more C-like: I always need () to call the function 
even if there are no arguments, while F and &F are equivalent.

This required an extra bit of logic. As far as explaining it goes:

    &F      func*       Evaluate function reference
    F       func*       Evaluate function reference
    F(...)  func        Call the function
    *F      ---         Error, not a pointer

It's not that hard, it just introduced one small anomaly where F and F& 
are the same.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#379947

FromDavid Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Date2024-01-09 15:56 +0100
Message-ID<unjmqs$21nsj$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#379946
On 09/01/2024 12:11, Bart wrote:
> On 09/01/2024 07:30, David Brown wrote:
>> On 09/01/2024 02:05, Bart wrote:
>>> On 08/01/2024 19:50, David Brown wrote:
>>>> On 08/01/2024 16:53, Bart wrote:
>>>
>>>>> This can occur with reference parameters too: I believe you get the 
>>>>> same thing in C++.
>>>>
>>>> Not quite - that's an easy and common misunderstanding.  (It is even 
>>>> more understandable for you, since your language uses "ref" to mean 
>>>> what is called a "pointer" in C and C++.)  References in C++ are not 
>>>> "auto-dereferenced pointers" - they are alternative names for 
>>>> objects. It is better to think of references as being ways to 
>>>> identify objects, and pointers as being indirect references.  C++ 
>>>> references are /not/ pointers.
>>>
>>> They look like auto-dereferenced pointers to me:
>>>
>>
>> I know they look like that at first glance, but they are not 
>> auto-dereferenced pointers.  It can sometimes be useful to understand 
>> that when you move references around (such as for function 
>> parameters), they are implemented as though they were a special kind 
>> of pointer - that tells you how efficient they are.  But conceptually, 
>> for their use and understanding, I don't think it is helpful.
>>
>>>
>>>>> It's worse than that.
>>>>
>>>> No, it's not worse - it's just a side-effect of the convenience of 
>>>> notation.  Disallowing some of the forms you show below would 
>>>> require extra rules, adding complication to the standards,
>>>
>>> My MCC compiler seems to manage it (I'm not sure how), and my main 
>>> compiler does even better: you can't even do the equivalent of 
>>> (*F)(), because F is not a pointer to anything and can't be 
>>> dereferenced.
>>
>> How is that in any way "better"?  You have gone out of your way to 
>> make your compiler non-conforming for the sake of stopping something 
>> no one would ever write?  It all sounds a bit pointless (but harmless) 
>> to me.
>>
>>>
>>> (Yes, F by itself is still equal to &F, but not F().)
>>>
>>> Whatever extra rules or logic are involved, they are insignificant 
>>> compared to those for VLAs, or for mixed sign arithmetic, for the 
>>> minimum groupings of {} around init data, or the algorithm for 
>>> searching for includes files, ...
>>
>> Whataboutism is a strong sign that the person arguing has lost track 
>> of their point.
> 
> Not at all. You are defending some crazy anomaly, that you find nowhere 
> else, for some insubstantial reason.

I'm saying it doesn't matter.  I have never heard it mentioned, 
anywhere, except by you.  It is completely irrelevant.

> 
> It works like that because the language was poorly designed in the first 
> place and nobody thought it worthwhile fixing it.

It works like that because the language was /well/ designed, for its 
purpose at the time, with the requirements and limitations of the time. 
Remember, as you always seem to forget, C was not designed with the sole 
purpose of making /your/ life as easy as possible, or suiting /your/ 
particular preferences.  The "(***foo)" anomaly is a side-effect of the 
way functions work in C.  Leaving it in costs nothing, removing it would 
be an effort and an inconvenience.

Do you /really/ think that, if this were important, no one would have 
suggested disallowing it?  Do you /really/ think that, if this were 
leading to poor code, misunderstandings or mistakes, that compiler 
writers would not be able to add warnings about it?  Do you /really/ 
think you are so vastly superior to everyone else in the C world that 
you alone see the problem?

Sometimes you are like that old joke of the guy driving the wrong way 
down the motorway, complaining that everyone else is wrong.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#379948

FromBart <bc@freeuk.cm>
Date2024-01-09 17:46 +0000
Message-ID<unk0q8$23dum$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#379947
On 09/01/2024 14:56, David Brown wrote:
> On 09/01/2024 12:11, Bart wrote:

>> Not at all. You are defending some crazy anomaly, that you find 
>> nowhere else, for some insubstantial reason.
> 
> I'm saying it doesn't matter.  I have never heard it mentioned, 
> anywhere, except by you.  It is completely irrelevant.

So you see this in code:

    (*F)(x);

and don't assume that F must be a pointer to function; why not? I 
thought you wanted that transparency?

>>
>> It works like that because the language was poorly designed in the 
>> first place and nobody thought it worthwhile fixing it.
> 
> It works like that because the language was /well/ designed, for its 
> purpose at the time, with the requirements and limitations of the time. 

Poppycock.

What limitations were there? These were people who were well funded to 
do exactly this work, and had decent equipment like DEC minicomputers to 
work with.

My language a decade later was done in my spare time on an 8-bit 
machine. There was no funding for that, and I wasn't an academic.

But it didn't the same plethora of quirks as C. Most languages don't.

> Remember, as you always seem to forget, C was not designed with the sole 
> purpose of making /your/ life as easy as possible, or suiting /your/ 
> particular preferences.  The "(***foo)" anomaly is a side-effect of the 
> way functions work in C.  Leaving it in costs nothing, removing it would 
> be an effort and an inconvenience.

Really? I didn't have much trouble.

> Do you /really/ think that, if this were important, no one would have 
> suggested disallowing it?  Do you /really/ think that, if this were 
> leading to poor code, misunderstandings or mistakes, that compiler 
> writers would not be able to add warnings about it?  Do you /really/ 
> think you are so vastly superior to everyone else in the C world that 
> you alone see the problem?
> 
> Sometimes you are like that old joke of the guy driving the wrong way 
> down the motorway, complaining that everyone else is wrong.

Would you design a language like that today?

I could list dozens of howlers within the language.

I've long thought that C was an elaborate joke that escaped from the 
lab. Possibly it is, and no one has yet owned up to it.

But people actually take it seriously and even defend all this stuff.

YOU would be the guy driving along the motorway in a Model T Ford, 
backed up by a 40-foot truck containing all the advanced equipment 
needed to work around all its shortcomings.

Behind them would be a further fleet of trucks containing the 
environment that you insist on being available.

Oh, sorry, I forgot that in 2023 it acquired new door handles. Yeah, 
that makes a difference.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


Page 8 of 34 — ← Prev page 1 … 6 7 [8] 9 10 … 34  Next page →

Back to top | Article view | comp.lang.c


csiph-web