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Groups > comp.lang.c > #122580 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2017-11-14 16:13 -0600 |
| Last post | 2017-11-20 10:39 -0500 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 450 — 38 participants |
Back to article view | Back to comp.lang.c
"The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2017-11-14 16:13 -0600
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-11-14 15:19 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-15 09:10 +0100
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-15 15:02 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-11-15 07:08 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-15 15:15 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-11-15 09:09 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "Pascal J. Bourguignon" <pjb@informatimago.com> - 2017-11-15 16:16 +0100
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-15 15:32 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Melzzzzz <Melzzzzz@zzzzz.com> - 2017-11-15 15:32 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "Pascal J. Bourguignon" <pjb@informatimago.com> - 2017-11-15 21:45 +0100
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-11-15 10:40 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-11-15 11:13 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-11-15 12:18 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-11-15 12:29 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-11-15 13:06 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-16 10:37 +1300
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-11-15 14:07 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "Pascal J. Bourguignon" <pjb@informatimago.com> - 2017-11-15 21:47 +0100
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-11-15 13:32 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-15 17:27 +0100
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-15 19:13 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-16 01:09 +0100
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-16 11:42 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-16 13:52 +0100
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-16 05:12 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-16 14:58 +0100
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2017-11-16 06:39 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-11-16 06:44 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-16 07:46 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-16 21:08 +0100
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-17 02:44 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-16 05:27 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-16 15:13 +0100
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-16 07:55 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-17 11:11 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-17 03:40 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-17 15:44 +0100
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-17 15:30 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-17 17:27 +0100
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-17 07:55 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-11-17 10:48 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-17 11:28 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-11-17 11:54 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-17 12:20 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-16 14:18 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-16 16:40 +0100
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-11-16 16:43 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "Pascal J. Bourguignon" <pjb@informatimago.com> - 2017-11-16 18:43 +0100
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-11-16 23:40 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "Pascal J. Bourguignon" <pjb@informatimago.com> - 2017-11-17 20:52 +0100
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-17 00:07 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-11-17 00:27 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-11-16 16:35 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-17 00:53 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-17 09:44 +0100
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-17 10:38 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-17 23:47 +1300
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-17 11:20 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-17 16:26 +0100
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-17 15:50 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond mark.bluemel@gmail.com - 2017-11-17 07:55 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-18 14:28 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2017-11-18 10:10 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-18 18:35 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2017-11-18 11:47 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-18 20:35 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-11-18 12:53 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-11-18 22:26 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-19 00:11 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-11-18 18:07 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-19 11:01 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-11-19 11:57 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-19 20:17 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-11-19 12:54 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-19 21:02 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2017-11-19 21:12 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2017-11-18 16:51 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2017-11-18 14:07 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-19 12:41 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2017-11-19 07:59 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-19 17:38 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2017-11-19 13:10 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-19 22:30 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2017-11-19 15:33 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2017-11-19 21:58 -0700
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "Pascal J. Bourguignon" <pjb@informatimago.com> - 2017-11-20 06:53 +0100
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-11-20 10:18 -0500
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-20 08:44 +0100
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-11-20 10:22 -0500
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2017-11-20 19:25 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-11-18 20:52 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-11-18 13:07 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-11-19 01:40 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-11-18 19:12 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-11-19 03:54 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-11-19 06:56 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-11-19 15:42 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-11-19 07:45 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-11-20 17:08 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-18 21:45 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-11-19 01:17 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-19 22:05 +0100
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-19 11:25 +1300
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-11-18 21:54 -0500
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-19 21:44 +0100
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2017-11-19 16:50 -0600
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-19 23:56 +0100
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-19 23:18 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2017-11-19 22:43 -0600
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-20 09:06 +0100
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-20 10:45 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-20 12:25 +0100
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-20 11:52 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-20 13:19 +0100
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-20 13:23 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-20 16:22 +0100
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-20 15:48 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-11-20 16:31 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-20 04:10 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond mark.bluemel@gmail.com - 2017-11-20 01:00 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-19 21:23 +0100
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-19 20:41 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-19 23:12 +0100
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-19 22:37 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-19 23:52 +0100
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-20 11:18 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-20 12:34 +0100
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2017-11-20 03:56 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-20 13:36 +0100
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2017-11-20 05:19 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-20 16:37 +0100
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-11-20 14:31 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2017-11-20 07:14 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-20 16:54 +0100
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond mark.bluemel@gmail.com - 2017-11-20 08:05 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-11-20 11:18 -0500
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-20 20:11 +0100
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-11-20 14:27 -0500
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-11-20 11:40 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-20 22:17 +0100
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-21 09:01 +1300
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-20 22:21 +0100
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-21 10:37 +1300
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2017-11-20 09:36 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-20 20:14 +0100
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2017-11-20 12:18 -0700
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-11-20 11:33 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-11-20 11:48 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-11-20 16:26 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-20 19:10 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-21 09:53 +1300
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-21 03:42 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-21 13:18 +0100
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-21 04:49 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-21 15:49 +0100
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2017-11-21 07:41 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-21 12:39 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-22 08:20 +1300
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-11-21 12:33 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-11-21 15:58 -0500
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-21 16:41 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-22 01:01 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-22 14:21 +1300
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-22 01:50 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-22 14:57 +1300
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2017-11-22 18:31 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-11-22 10:58 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2017-11-22 20:50 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-11-22 13:04 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2017-11-22 13:09 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2017-11-24 06:24 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2017-11-21 20:01 -0600
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-22 10:00 +0100
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-22 11:03 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-22 12:38 +0100
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> - 2017-11-22 11:50 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-22 15:18 +0100
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-22 13:19 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-22 15:47 +0100
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-22 16:04 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-11-22 16:45 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-11-22 12:08 -0500
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2017-11-22 10:02 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-22 21:56 +0100
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-22 20:22 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-22 21:59 +0100
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-22 21:15 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2017-11-22 13:37 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-22 22:04 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-23 18:25 +1300
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-23 18:16 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-23 10:27 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2017-11-23 12:50 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-23 09:18 +0100
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-23 09:15 +0100
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-11-23 12:48 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-23 22:18 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-24 09:38 +0100
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-22 21:00 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-11-22 13:40 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-22 22:24 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-11-22 15:18 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> - 2017-11-23 02:34 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-22 13:45 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-22 14:34 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-23 18:16 +1300
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-23 10:23 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-23 12:13 +0100
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-23 09:30 +0100
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2017-11-23 02:21 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-23 13:49 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-23 16:07 +0100
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-23 16:03 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-24 09:09 +0100
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-24 08:02 +1300
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-23 11:26 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-23 11:37 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-23 19:56 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-23 12:07 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-23 20:31 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-23 12:38 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-23 19:32 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-24 08:34 +1300
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-23 20:24 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2017-11-24 06:34 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-24 20:05 +1300
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-24 11:57 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-24 04:25 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-24 13:02 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-24 07:31 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2017-11-24 13:32 -0500
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-11-24 14:05 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-25 12:03 +1300
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Sjouke Burry <burrynulnulfour@ppllaanneett.nnll> - 2017-11-25 00:23 +0100
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-25 00:41 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Melzzzzz <Melzzzzz@zzzzz.com> - 2017-11-25 00:58 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2017-11-24 20:28 -0500
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-25 02:36 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Melzzzzz <Melzzzzz@zzzzz.com> - 2017-11-25 02:53 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2017-11-24 22:42 -0600
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2017-11-25 10:34 -0500
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2017-11-25 17:13 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2017-11-25 13:32 -0500
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-25 10:38 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2017-11-25 19:17 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-26 08:43 +1300
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-25 19:46 +1300
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-25 11:14 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond luser droog <luser.droog@gmail.com> - 2017-11-22 08:44 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-22 03:19 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-11-22 09:45 -0500
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-22 15:52 +0100
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2017-11-20 12:14 -0700
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-20 16:45 +0100
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-20 17:12 +1300
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Reinhardt Behm <rbehm@hushmail.com> - 2017-11-20 13:14 +0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond asetofsymbols@gmail.com - 2017-11-19 22:38 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-19 18:43 +0100
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-19 18:07 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2017-11-19 10:38 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-19 22:30 +0100
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2017-11-19 14:22 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond ruben safir <ruben@mrbrklyn.com> - 2017-11-25 11:46 -0500
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-25 17:19 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-26 08:46 +1300
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-25 20:59 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-26 11:54 +1300
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-25 23:34 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-26 14:19 +1300
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-26 11:39 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-26 13:20 +0100
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-26 13:43 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-26 17:32 +0100
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-26 17:31 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-26 22:11 +0100
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2017-11-26 06:53 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-19 19:50 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-17 17:37 +0100
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2017-11-17 07:54 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-17 17:45 +0100
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-11-17 11:15 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2017-11-17 19:36 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-19 23:03 +0100
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-17 16:02 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-17 08:12 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-11-17 16:44 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-17 17:53 +0100
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-18 08:04 +1300
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-17 19:46 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-18 11:12 +1300
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-17 23:00 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-18 12:14 +1300
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-17 23:35 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-18 13:27 +1300
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-18 01:57 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-19 12:09 +1300
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-18 23:39 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-19 13:30 +1300
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-19 01:17 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-19 14:37 +1300
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-18 12:52 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-19 10:33 +1300
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-11-18 22:04 -0500
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-19 17:30 +1300
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-17 08:02 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-23 03:15 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2017-11-17 17:39 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2017-11-16 19:13 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2017-11-16 06:48 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-11-16 17:03 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2017-11-16 09:24 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-16 09:45 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-11-16 10:57 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-16 14:13 -0600
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-11-17 11:24 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-18 09:53 -0600
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-11-16 23:44 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-11-16 08:35 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2017-11-15 16:28 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-15 23:00 -0600
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-16 14:38 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-16 12:15 -0600
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-17 00:44 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-17 13:54 -0600
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-17 09:51 +0100
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-17 12:28 -0600
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-11-17 10:56 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-11-17 11:47 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-11-17 20:16 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-11-17 12:57 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-17 15:07 -0600
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2017-11-15 02:33 +0100
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-11-14 18:21 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> - 2017-11-15 04:04 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2017-11-15 01:56 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> - 2017-11-15 10:49 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2017-11-15 03:42 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-15 13:13 +0100
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-15 12:16 +0100
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-11-15 11:47 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-16 04:58 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-16 15:22 +0100
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-16 08:07 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-16 16:17 -0600
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> - 2017-11-16 14:45 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-16 08:21 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-11-16 08:25 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-16 08:37 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-11-16 10:44 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-16 11:16 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-17 04:39 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2017-11-16 19:51 +0100
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-16 11:37 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-16 11:58 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-11-16 12:09 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-17 02:53 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-11-16 20:36 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-11-16 12:40 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2017-11-16 23:54 +0100
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2017-11-16 18:08 -0500
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Melzzzzz <Melzzzzz@zzzzz.com> - 2017-11-16 23:27 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-17 12:32 +1300
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2017-11-18 06:50 -0500
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-11-18 04:15 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-18 12:44 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-17 10:10 +0100
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-11-17 14:02 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2017-11-16 18:06 -0500
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2017-11-17 01:01 +0100
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2017-11-18 06:45 -0500
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2017-11-18 13:07 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2017-11-19 09:16 -0500
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-11-16 16:03 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2017-11-18 06:47 -0500
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Melzzzzz <Melzzzzz@zzzzz.com> - 2017-11-18 13:13 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-18 14:04 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Melzzzzz <Melzzzzz@zzzzz.com> - 2017-11-18 14:38 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-11-18 09:59 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-11-20 13:23 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-17 10:30 +0100
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2017-11-18 14:42 +0100
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-17 16:43 +1300
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-17 10:32 +0100
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2017-11-15 22:17 +0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "Pascal J. Bourguignon" <pjb@informatimago.com> - 2017-11-15 15:54 +0100
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-15 15:12 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Melzzzzz <Melzzzzz@zzzzz.com> - 2017-11-15 15:15 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-15 15:35 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-15 17:31 +0100
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-11-15 08:39 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-11-15 17:10 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-11-15 17:31 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-15 18:26 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-16 01:19 +0100
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-11-15 10:54 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "Pascal J. Bourguignon" <pjb@informatimago.com> - 2017-11-15 21:42 +0100
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Melzzzzz <Melzzzzz@zzzzz.com> - 2017-11-15 22:52 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-15 23:46 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Melzzzzz <Melzzzzz@zzzzz.com> - 2017-11-15 23:56 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-11-16 13:29 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-11-16 05:43 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-11-16 14:53 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-11-16 07:00 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "Pascal J. Bourguignon" <pjb@informatimago.com> - 2017-11-16 16:10 +0100
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-11-16 16:10 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-11-16 11:42 -0500
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-11-16 17:06 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-11-16 09:37 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "Pascal J. Bourguignon" <pjb@informatimago.com> - 2017-11-15 21:42 +0100
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-11-15 15:16 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-11-15 12:25 -0500
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "Pascal J. Bourguignon" <pjb@informatimago.com> - 2017-11-15 21:50 +0100
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-11-15 15:54 -0500
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "Pascal J. Bourguignon" <pjb@informatimago.com> - 2017-11-15 23:36 +0100
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-11-15 17:47 -0500
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "Pascal J. Bourguignon" <pjb@informatimago.com> - 2017-11-16 00:44 +0100
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Melzzzzz <Melzzzzz@zzzzz.com> - 2017-11-15 23:54 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "Pascal J. Bourguignon" <pjb@informatimago.com> - 2017-11-16 01:28 +0100
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-11-15 16:46 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Melzzzzz <Melzzzzz@zzzzz.com> - 2017-11-16 00:49 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "Pascal J. Bourguignon" <pjb@informatimago.com> - 2017-11-16 15:47 +0100
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Melzzzzz <Melzzzzz@zzzzz.com> - 2017-11-16 15:46 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "Pascal J. Bourguignon" <pjb@informatimago.com> - 2017-11-16 17:26 +0100
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> - 2017-11-16 17:14 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2017-11-16 13:34 -0600
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-11-16 11:56 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-16 15:19 -0600
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-11-16 13:50 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2017-11-16 18:11 -0500
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Melzzzzz <Melzzzzz@zzzzz.com> - 2017-11-16 00:49 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2017-11-16 02:06 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Melzzzzz <Melzzzzz@zzzzz.com> - 2017-11-16 15:43 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> - 2017-11-16 16:01 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-11-15 16:21 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-11-15 22:24 -0500
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "Pascal J. Bourguignon" <pjb@informatimago.com> - 2017-11-16 16:01 +0100
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-11-16 11:54 -0500
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-11-15 14:54 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2017-11-16 21:20 +0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Jens Stuckelberger <Jens_Stuckelberger@nowhere.net> - 2017-11-15 15:17 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-11-15 12:31 -0500
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2017-11-15 16:07 +0000
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond John Bode <jfbode1029@gmail.com> - 2017-11-15 11:08 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-11-15 14:28 -0500
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond John Bode <jfbode1029@gmail.com> - 2017-11-15 12:31 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2017-11-15 16:28 -0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2017-11-19 15:38 -0600
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Reinhardt Behm <rbehm@hushmail.com> - 2017-11-20 12:55 +0800
Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-11-20 10:39 -0500
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| From | Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-11-16 18:08 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <oul6h4$r18$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #122774 |
jacobnavia wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties: > 1) The GC is no longer noticeable in modern machines. I tend to doubt that. > <snip> > > Any non deterministic system like malloc/free, Whaaaaa? Surely you jest. -- The Priest's grey nimbus in a niche where he dressed discreetly. I will not sleep here tonight. Home also I cannot go. A voice, sweetened and sustained, called to him from the sea. Turning the curve he waved his hand. A sleek brown head, a seal's, far out on the water, round. Usurper. -- James Joyce, "Ulysses"
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| From | Melzzzzz <Melzzzzz@zzzzz.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-11-16 23:27 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <oul6th$51m$1@news.albasani.net> |
| In reply to | #122774 |
On 2017-11-16, jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> wrote: > Le 16/11/2017 à 21:36, Scott Lurndal a écrit : >> jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> writes: >>> Le 16/11/2017 à 13:58, Thiago Adams a écrit : >>>> GC is a bad idea. >>> >>> It is an excellent idea. >> >>> >>> Many languages exist that use the GC. They are used by thousands and >>> thousands of programmers, and they exist for many reasons but one of >>> them is that they provide an easy to use AUTOMATIC heap and RAM >>> management system that frees the programmer from counting and recounting >>> each piece of RAM and leaving that job to the machine. >> >> And there are many more programmers who don't use Java specifically >> because of Garbage Collection (and the associated non-determinism). >> > > 1) The GC is no longer noticeable in modern machines. Look for instance > an embedded system with an ARM64 processor: it has a quad core CPU, 4GB > RAM and a price of just 20 dollars. > > 2) When you call free() the machine does a GC of the unused space trying > to consolidate RAM and avoid having too many small blocks. free/malloc > aren't deterministic either, so you would have to just use static RAM, > what many small embedded system do. Many people think that malloc/free > are instantaneous. No, they are not! > > 3) There are many reasons to not use Java, but fear of the GC is a very > small percentage of them, but I have no real data to support this. > > But, by the way, where you have your data from? Is there any evidence > for what you say? Yes, in C groups many people aren't fans of Java, but > besides this newsgroup have you any data about that? > > Any non deterministic system like malloc/free, Java, or whatever, is not > accepted in a real time system if the time the machine is busy with GC > is so important. But C is NOT for small micro controllers only. There > are other applications there, as you may know... > > Interesting aproach to GC is in nim language. There you have GC per thread, which means that only thread that is GC-ed is stopped while rest are running. This only draback is that you can't have shared queue, but use channels (send/recieve). This has much better performance then global GC. -- press any key to continue or any other to quit...
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| From | Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-11-17 12:32 +1300 |
| Message-ID | <f76lh8Fk4dnU2@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #122774 |
On 11/17/2017 11:54 AM, jacobnavia wrote: > Le 16/11/2017 à 21:36, Scott Lurndal a écrit : >> jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> writes: >>> Le 16/11/2017 à 13:58, Thiago Adams a écrit : >>>> GC is a bad idea. >>> >>> It is an excellent idea. >> >>> >>> Many languages exist that use the GC. They are used by thousands and >>> thousands of programmers, and they exist for many reasons but one of >>> them is that they provide an easy to use AUTOMATIC heap and RAM >>> management system that frees the programmer from counting and recounting >>> each piece of RAM and leaving that job to the machine. >> >> And there are many more programmers who don't use Java specifically >> because of Garbage Collection (and the associated non-determinism). >> > > 1) The GC is no longer noticeable in modern machines. It is when the workload is high, such as compiling a non-trivial Android application. That's one reason why Java has so many GC tuning options. > 2) When you call free() the machine does a GC of the unused space trying > to consolidate RAM and avoid having too many small blocks. free/malloc > aren't deterministic either, so you would have to just use static RAM, > what many small embedded system do. Many people think that malloc/free > are instantaneous. No, they are not! They can be deterministic if the library used to implement them is written that way. One of the good features of C (and C++) is the ability to provide a specialised allocator (which may be a GC allocator) to meet specific needs. One of the big drawbacks of languages which rely on GC is you can't (easily if at all) specialise the allocator. I guess that's why Java keeps getting new allocator tweaks.
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| From | Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-11-18 06:50 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <oup7j1$67e$6@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #122783 |
Ian Collins wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties: > On 11/17/2017 11:54 AM, jacobnavia wrote: >> Le 16/11/2017 à 21:36, Scott Lurndal a écrit : >>> jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> writes: >>>> Le 16/11/2017 à 13:58, Thiago Adams a écrit : >>>>> GC is a bad idea. >>>> >>>> It is an excellent idea. >>> >>>> >>>> Many languages exist that use the GC. They are used by thousands and >>>> thousands of programmers, and they exist for many reasons but one of >>>> them is that they provide an easy to use AUTOMATIC heap and RAM >>>> management system that frees the programmer from counting and recounting >>>> each piece of RAM and leaving that job to the machine. >>> >>> And there are many more programmers who don't use Java specifically >>> because of Garbage Collection (and the associated non-determinism). >>> >> >> 1) The GC is no longer noticeable in modern machines. > > It is when the workload is high, such as compiling a non-trivial Android > application. That's one reason why Java has so many GC tuning options. As does C#. >> 2) When you call free() the machine does a GC of the unused space trying >> to consolidate RAM and avoid having too many small blocks. free/malloc >> aren't deterministic either, so you would have to just use static RAM, >> what many small embedded system do. Many people think that malloc/free >> are instantaneous. No, they are not! > > They can be deterministic if the library used to implement them is > written that way. One of the good features of C (and C++) is the > ability to provide a specialised allocator (which may be a GC allocator) > to meet specific needs. One of the big drawbacks of languages which > rely on GC is you can't (easily if at all) specialise the allocator. I > guess that's why Java keeps getting new allocator tweaks. Yeah, although "conveniences" turn out to be limiting in the long term, and that's why you get new versions of the language allowing you to turn handsprings to do the things they told you were baaaaaad in earlier versions of the language :-D -- Debian Hint #40: If you install the command-not-found package, attempting to run a command you don't have installed will tell you what package to install to obtain that command.
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| From | "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-11-18 04:15 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <c359b9ee-a300-42b7-a569-bbbdc1751b6f@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #122911 |
On Saturday, November 18, 2017 at 7:03:53 AM UTC-5, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
> Ian Collins wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
Why do you disrespect people so with your response heading:
".. wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:"
It's not funny, and it demeans everyone you respond to, casting them
into the role of expecting something in exchange for their post.
Some people post just to help people. Some people are just wanting
to help others to be that kind of person.
I realize you intend it to be humorous, but look at the words you use.
It's like sarcasm. People understand sarcasm, but the actual words
used are hurtful. You should try using only positive, encouraging
things. It will uplift people, and make you also feel better on the
inside, giving a little bounce to your step.
--
Rick C. Hodgin
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| From | bartc <bc@freeuk.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-11-18 12:44 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <0WVPB.15566$x74.12830@fx33.am4> |
| In reply to | #122912 |
On 18/11/2017 12:15, Rick C. Hodgin wrote: > On Saturday, November 18, 2017 at 7:03:53 AM UTC-5, Chris Ahlstrom wrote: >> Ian Collins wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties: > > Why do you disrespect people so with your response heading: > > ".. wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:" > > It's not funny, and it demeans everyone you respond to, casting them > into the role of expecting something in exchange for their post. > Some people post just to help people. Some people are just wanting > to help others to be that kind of person. > > I realize you intend it to be humorous, but look at the words you use. > It's like sarcasm. People understand sarcasm, but the actual words > used are hurtful. You should try using only positive, encouraging > things. It will uplift people, and make you also feel better on the > inside, giving a little bounce to your step. Listen, if the guy thinks he has to pay us royalties, then let him...
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| From | David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-11-17 10:10 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <oum932$j6j$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #122774 |
On 16/11/17 23:54, jacobnavia wrote: > Le 16/11/2017 à 21:36, Scott Lurndal a écrit : >> jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> writes: >>> Le 16/11/2017 à 13:58, Thiago Adams a écrit : >>>> GC is a bad idea. >>> >>> It is an excellent idea. >> >>> >>> Many languages exist that use the GC. They are used by thousands and >>> thousands of programmers, and they exist for many reasons but one of >>> them is that they provide an easy to use AUTOMATIC heap and RAM >>> management system that frees the programmer from counting and recounting >>> each piece of RAM and leaving that job to the machine. >> >> And there are many more programmers who don't use Java specifically >> because of Garbage Collection (and the associated non-determinism). >> > > 1) The GC is no longer noticeable in modern machines. Look for instance > an embedded system with an ARM64 processor: it has a quad core CPU, 4GB > RAM and a price of just 20 dollars. It is a common misunderstanding to think that the cost-price for a cpu is the key factor in how much power you can put in an embedded system. For the great majority of systems being designed, the real cost price of putting a chip like this in a system, rather than a 50 MHz microcontroller, is closer to $500 than $20. I can give more details if you want, or you can trust someone who actually works with embedded systems. GC is irrelevant to most small embedded systems - because you don't have dynamic memory of any sort. Until you are of a size where you are looking at embedded Linux, dynamic memory is something you try to avoid - and if you /do/ need it, you will often use memory pools or other fine-tuned allocation systems. You will also see embedded systems that have malloc and where "free" is an empty function - but there is no garbage collection to be seen. There is simply no deallocation. > > 2) When you call free() the machine does a GC of the unused space trying > to consolidate RAM and avoid having too many small blocks. free/malloc > aren't deterministic either, so you would have to just use static RAM, > what many small embedded system do. Many people think that malloc/free > are instantaneous. No, they are not! That is one of the many reasons why small embedded systems - or any code that needs to be reliable and deterministic in its speeds - avoids dynamic memory. > > 3) There are many reasons to not use Java, but fear of the GC is a very > small percentage of them, but I have no real data to support this. I too wondered if Scott had data to support his claim. I have no data either way. > > But, by the way, where you have your data from? Is there any evidence > for what you say? Yes, in C groups many people aren't fans of Java, but > besides this newsgroup have you any data about that? > > Any non deterministic system like malloc/free, Java, or whatever, is not > accepted in a real time system if the time the machine is busy with GC > is so important. But C is NOT for small micro controllers only. There > are other applications there, as you may know... > Well, for C on small embedded systems, garbage collection is certainly not useful or wanted. For C on larger systems - yes, I am sure garbage collection can be a useful way to handle memory. It has its pros and cons - but the Boehm GC website has some examples of real-world uses. And I think gcc uses a similar system internally in the compiler :-)
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| From | scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-11-17 14:02 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <7_BPB.5232$Pz4.3165@fx15.iad> |
| In reply to | #122774 |
jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> writes: >Le 16/11/2017 à 21:36, Scott Lurndal a écrit : >> jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> writes: >>> Le 16/11/2017 à 13:58, Thiago Adams a écrit : >>>> GC is a bad idea. >>> >>> It is an excellent idea. >> >>> >>> Many languages exist that use the GC. They are used by thousands and >>> thousands of programmers, and they exist for many reasons but one of >>> them is that they provide an easy to use AUTOMATIC heap and RAM >>> management system that frees the programmer from counting and recounting >>> each piece of RAM and leaving that job to the machine. >> >> And there are many more programmers who don't use Java specifically >> because of Garbage Collection (and the associated non-determinism). >> > >1) The GC is no longer noticeable in modern machines. Look for instance >an embedded system with an ARM64 processor: it has a quad core CPU, 4GB >RAM and a price of just 20 dollars. Specious argument. It is quite noticible, depending on the application, the JVM and the host OS. > >2) When you call free() the machine does a GC of the unused space trying >to consolidate RAM and avoid having too many small blocks. free/malloc >aren't deterministic either, so you would have to just use static RAM, >what many small embedded system do. Many people think that malloc/free >are instantaneous. No, they are not! And people who care about this use O(1) pool-based allocators with internal lookaside lists. >But, by the way, where you have your data from? Is there any evidence >for what you say? Yes, in C groups many people aren't fans of Java, but >besides this newsgroup have you any data about that? 15 years of attending JavaOne (4 as an exhibitor).
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| From | Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-11-16 18:06 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <oul6e5$r18$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #122763 |
Scott Lurndal wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties: > jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> writes: >>Le 16/11/2017 à 13:58, Thiago Adams a écrit : >>> GC is a bad idea. >> >>It is an excellent idea. > >>Many languages exist that use the GC. They are used by thousands and >>thousands of programmers, and they exist for many reasons but one of >>them is that they provide an easy to use AUTOMATIC heap and RAM >>management system that frees the programmer from counting and recounting >>each piece of RAM and leaving that job to the machine. > > And there are many more programmers who don't use Java specifically > because of Garbage Collection (and the associated non-determinism). I haven't worked a lot in Java, but lately have done a good amount of C#. As a C++ guy, I cringe when I assign a string (String), knowing that it will hang around long after its usage, and that bunches of them will eventually be garbage-collected, and the web app will pause for many seconds before responding. Give me RAII any day. -- Best of all is never to have been born. Second best is to die soon.
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| From | jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-11-17 01:01 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <oul8s0$d0m$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #122778 |
Le 17/11/2017 à 00:06, Chris Ahlstrom a écrit : > Scott Lurndal wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties: > > As a C++ guy, I cringe when I assign a string (String), knowing that it will > hang around long after its usage, and that bunches of them will eventually > be garbage-collected, and the web app will pause for many seconds before > responding. > > Give me RAII any day. > Yes, C++ is the best since the discovery of sliced bread but... If the object's class implements IDisposable method you can call "Dispose" if you want to avoid creating too much garbage.
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| From | Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-11-18 06:45 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <oup794$67e$4@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #122789 |
jacobnavia wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties: > Le 17/11/2017 à 00:06, Chris Ahlstrom a écrit : >> Scott Lurndal wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties: >> > >> As a C++ guy, I cringe when I assign a string (String), knowing that it will >> hang around long after its usage, and that bunches of them will eventually >> be garbage-collected, and the web app will pause for many seconds before >> responding. >> >> Give me RAII any day. > > Yes, C++ is the best since the discovery of sliced bread but... > > If the object's class implements IDisposable method you can call > "Dispose" if you want to avoid creating too much garbage. I don't want to call a destructor. Like I said, give me RAII. You write a constructor, and, if need be, a destructor. Done. -- Q: Why did the germ cross the microscope? A: To get to the other slide.
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| From | Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-11-18 13:07 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <874lprag5v.fsf@gmail.com> |
| In reply to | #122909 |
Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> writes: > I don't want to call a destructor. Like I said, give me RAII. > > You write a constructor, and, if need be, a destructor. Done. Quite. Constructor() followed by manual Dispose() is *exactly* the same idiom as malloc()/free(). To suggest this is somehow a useful replacement for RAII fundamentally misunderstands the problem.
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| From | Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-11-19 09:16 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <ous4gt$rmb$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #122916 |
Gareth Owen wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
> Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> writes:
>
>> I don't want to call a destructor. Like I said, give me RAII.
>>
>> You write a constructor, and, if need be, a destructor. Done.
>
> Quite. Constructor() followed by manual Dispose() is *exactly* the same
> idiom as malloc()/free(). To suggest this is somehow a useful
> replacement for RAII fundamentally misunderstands the problem.
C# does have the "using { }" idiom, for IDisposable stuff.
Another example of one language first rejecting the idiom of the other, then
putting it back in as a canard ;->
--
Debian Hint #11: Keep up to date on what's going on - read the Debian
Project News. Read it on the web at http://www.debian.org/News/weekly/
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| From | supercat@casperkitty.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-11-16 16:03 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <b7f9d3f6-b750-44b6-bd00-31bed0ae63c4@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #122778 |
On Thursday, November 16, 2017 at 5:19:41 PM UTC-6, Chris Ahlstrom wrote: > As a C++ guy, I cringe when I assign a string (String), knowing that it will > hang around long after its usage, and that bunches of them will eventually > be garbage-collected, and the web app will pause for many seconds before > responding. If a String exists, assigning a reference into a variable of String or Object type will not create a new one. Creating a new String will consume memory from the "Eden" heap which is IIRC typically around 1MiB. Once that is full, all objects in that heap to which references still exist will be copied elsewhere, making the Eden heap available for use again. If the last reference to a String (or the last remaining object which held a direct or indirect reference to that String) gets overwritten soon after the String is created, the next GC cycle won't "free" the space occupied thereby because nothing in the system will notice that the String had ever existed.
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| From | Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-11-18 06:47 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <oup7cm$67e$5@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #122790 |
supercat@casperkitty.com wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties: > On Thursday, November 16, 2017 at 5:19:41 PM UTC-6, Chris Ahlstrom wrote: >> As a C++ guy, I cringe when I assign a string (String), knowing that it will >> hang around long after its usage, and that bunches of them will eventually >> be garbage-collected, and the web app will pause for many seconds before >> responding. > > If a String exists, assigning a reference into a variable of String or > Object type will not create a new one. Since C# Strings are immutable, making a modification to the String *must* create a new string. > Creating a new String will consume > memory from the "Eden" heap which is IIRC typically around 1MiB. Once > that is full, all objects in that heap to which references still exist will > be copied elsewhere, making the Eden heap available for use again. If the > last reference to a String (or the last remaining object which held a direct > or indirect reference to that String) gets overwritten soon after the String > is created, the next GC cycle won't "free" the space occupied thereby > because nothing in the system will notice that the String had ever existed. Hoo boy. -- You will be awarded some great honor.
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| From | Melzzzzz <Melzzzzz@zzzzz.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-11-18 13:13 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <oupblq$3t8$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #122910 |
On 2017-11-18, Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> wrote: > supercat@casperkitty.com wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties: > >> On Thursday, November 16, 2017 at 5:19:41 PM UTC-6, Chris Ahlstrom wrote: >>> As a C++ guy, I cringe when I assign a string (String), knowing that it will >>> hang around long after its usage, and that bunches of them will eventually >>> be garbage-collected, and the web app will pause for many seconds before >>> responding. >> >> If a String exists, assigning a reference into a variable of String or >> Object type will not create a new one. > > Since C# Strings are immutable, making a modification to the String *must* > create a new string. That is why references to String are possible. No need to copy when thing is immutable. Of course, that means modifying needs completely new String. I guess that someone decided that immutable Strings are more common then mutable ones... -- press any key to continue or any other to quit...
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| From | bartc <bc@freeuk.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-11-18 14:04 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <N4XPB.46637$Wm2.13918@fx03.am4> |
| In reply to | #122910 |
On 18/11/2017 11:47, Chris Ahlstrom wrote: > supercat@casperkitty.com wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties: > >> On Thursday, November 16, 2017 at 5:19:41 PM UTC-6, Chris Ahlstrom wrote: >>> As a C++ guy, I cringe when I assign a string (String), knowing that it will >>> hang around long after its usage, and that bunches of them will eventually >>> be garbage-collected, and the web app will pause for many seconds before >>> responding. >> >> If a String exists, assigning a reference into a variable of String or >> Object type will not create a new one. > > Since C# Strings are immutable, making a modification to the String *must* > create a new string. Unless there's only one reference to the string.
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| From | Melzzzzz <Melzzzzz@zzzzz.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-11-18 14:38 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <oupglk$85e$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #122922 |
On 2017-11-18, bartc <bc@freeuk.com> wrote: > On 18/11/2017 11:47, Chris Ahlstrom wrote: >> supercat@casperkitty.com wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties: >> >>> On Thursday, November 16, 2017 at 5:19:41 PM UTC-6, Chris Ahlstrom wrote: >>>> As a C++ guy, I cringe when I assign a string (String), knowing that it will >>>> hang around long after its usage, and that bunches of them will eventually >>>> be garbage-collected, and the web app will pause for many seconds before >>>> responding. >>> >>> If a String exists, assigning a reference into a variable of String or >>> Object type will not create a new one. >> >> Since C# Strings are immutable, making a modification to the String *must* >> create a new string. > > Unless there's only one reference to the string. > Well, you can't make modification in legal way, in such language ;) > -- press any key to continue or any other to quit...
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| From | "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-11-18 09:59 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <03a73957-77e4-47f0-8f15-1cdc61ddb336@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #122924 |
On Saturday, November 18, 2017 at 12:01:06 PM UTC-5, rickchod...@gmail.com wrote:
> [snip]
A man named Peter Cheung is impersonating me. Go here to learn more:
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.os.development/lr7c-7kNUxo/qbycC3QUAAAJ
--
Rick C. Hodgin
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| From | supercat@casperkitty.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-11-20 13:23 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <e0ffac26-3626-4e7e-be2d-36789ae8a704@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #122922 |
On Saturday, November 18, 2017 at 8:03:39 AM UTC-6, Bart wrote:
> On 18/11/2017 11:47, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
> > Since C# Strings are immutable, making a modification to the String *must*
> > create a new string.
>
> Unless there's only one reference to the string.
If one needs a String containing a certain sequence of characters, and does
not know of an existing one, it's necessary to create a new one. Naive code
like:
String myString = "";
for (int i=0; i<30000; i++)
myString += "-"; // Assume real code would generate stuff to be
// appended via some fancier means.
will execute very slowly, since it will generate 30,000 String objects with
a total size of over 400MB. A better approach would be:
var sb = new System.Text.StringBuilder();
for (int i=0; i<30000; i++)
sb.Append("-");
String myString = sb.ToString();
That would result in far fewer temporary objects being created. It's not
generally necessary to be paranoid about the cost of creating strings except
in cases like the above where one would otherwise generate thousands of
large temporary strings, but it is important to know that every new string
generated will require creation of a new string object.
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