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Groups > comp.lang.c > #122580 > unrolled thread

"The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond

Started byLynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com>
First post2017-11-14 16:13 -0600
Last post2017-11-20 10:39 -0500
Articles 20 on this page of 450 — 38 participants

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Contents

  "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2017-11-14 16:13 -0600
    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-11-14 15:19 -0800
      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-15 09:10 +0100
        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-15 15:02 +0000
          Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-11-15 07:08 -0800
            Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-15 15:15 +0000
              Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-11-15 09:09 -0800
          Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "Pascal J. Bourguignon" <pjb@informatimago.com> - 2017-11-15 16:16 +0100
            Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-15 15:32 +0000
            Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Melzzzzz <Melzzzzz@zzzzz.com> - 2017-11-15 15:32 +0000
              Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "Pascal J. Bourguignon" <pjb@informatimago.com> - 2017-11-15 21:45 +0100
            Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-11-15 10:40 -0800
              Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-11-15 11:13 -0800
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-11-15 12:18 -0800
                  Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-11-15 12:29 -0800
                    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-11-15 13:06 -0800
                      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-16 10:37 +1300
                        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-11-15 14:07 -0800
              Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "Pascal J. Bourguignon" <pjb@informatimago.com> - 2017-11-15 21:47 +0100
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-11-15 13:32 -0800
          Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-15 17:27 +0100
            Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-15 19:13 +0000
              Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-16 01:09 +0100
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-16 11:42 +0000
                  Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-16 13:52 +0100
                    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-16 05:12 -0800
                      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-16 14:58 +0100
                        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2017-11-16 06:39 -0800
                          Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-11-16 06:44 -0800
                        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-16 07:46 -0800
                          Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-16 21:08 +0100
                            Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-17 02:44 -0800
                    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-16 05:27 -0800
                      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-16 15:13 +0100
                        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-16 07:55 -0800
                      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-17 11:11 +0000
                        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-17 03:40 -0800
                        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-17 15:44 +0100
                          Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-17 15:30 +0000
                            Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-17 17:27 +0100
                          Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-17 07:55 -0800
                      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-11-17 10:48 -0800
                        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-17 11:28 -0800
                          Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-11-17 11:54 -0800
                            Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-17 12:20 -0800
                    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-16 14:18 +0000
                      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-16 16:40 +0100
                      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-11-16 16:43 +0000
                        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "Pascal J. Bourguignon" <pjb@informatimago.com> - 2017-11-16 18:43 +0100
                          Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-11-16 23:40 +0000
                            Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "Pascal J. Bourguignon" <pjb@informatimago.com> - 2017-11-17 20:52 +0100
                        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-17 00:07 +0000
                          Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-11-17 00:27 +0000
                          Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-11-16 16:35 -0800
                            Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-17 00:53 +0000
                              Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-17 09:44 +0100
                                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-17 10:38 +0000
                                  Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-17 23:47 +1300
                                    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-17 11:20 +0000
                                  Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-17 16:26 +0100
                                    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-17 15:50 +0000
                                      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond mark.bluemel@gmail.com - 2017-11-17 07:55 -0800
                                        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-18 14:28 +0000
                                          Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2017-11-18 10:10 -0800
                                            Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-18 18:35 +0000
                                              Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2017-11-18 11:47 -0800
                                                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-18 20:35 +0000
                                                  Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-11-18 12:53 -0800
                                                    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-11-18 22:26 +0000
                                                    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-19 00:11 +0000
                                                      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-11-18 18:07 -0800
                                                        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-19 11:01 +0000
                                                          Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-11-19 11:57 -0800
                                                            Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-19 20:17 +0000
                                                              Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-11-19 12:54 -0800
                                                                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-19 21:02 +0000
                                                            Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2017-11-19 21:12 +0000
                                                    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2017-11-18 16:51 -0800
                                                  Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2017-11-18 14:07 -0800
                                                    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-19 12:41 +0000
                                                      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2017-11-19 07:59 -0800
                                                        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-19 17:38 +0000
                                                          Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2017-11-19 13:10 -0800
                                                            Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-19 22:30 +0000
                                                              Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2017-11-19 15:33 -0800
                                                        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2017-11-19 21:58 -0700
                                                          Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "Pascal J. Bourguignon" <pjb@informatimago.com> - 2017-11-20 06:53 +0100
                                                          Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-11-20 10:18 -0500
                                                      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-20 08:44 +0100
                                                        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-11-20 10:22 -0500
                                                        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2017-11-20 19:25 +0000
                                              Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-11-18 20:52 +0000
                                                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-11-18 13:07 -0800
                                                  Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-11-19 01:40 +0000
                                                    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-11-18 19:12 -0800
                                                      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-11-19 03:54 +0000
                                                        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-11-19 06:56 -0800
                                                          Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-11-19 15:42 +0000
                                                            Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-11-19 07:45 -0800
                                                        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-11-20 17:08 +0000
                                                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-18 21:45 +0000
                                                  Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-11-19 01:17 +0000
                                                  Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-19 22:05 +0100
                                                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-19 11:25 +1300
                                                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-11-18 21:54 -0500
                                                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-19 21:44 +0100
                                                  Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2017-11-19 16:50 -0600
                                                    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-19 23:56 +0100
                                                      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-19 23:18 +0000
                                                        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2017-11-19 22:43 -0600
                                                        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-20 09:06 +0100
                                                          Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-20 10:45 +0000
                                                            Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-20 12:25 +0100
                                                              Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-20 11:52 +0000
                                                                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-20 13:19 +0100
                                                                  Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-20 13:23 +0000
                                                                    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-20 16:22 +0100
                                                                      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-20 15:48 +0000
                                                                        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-11-20 16:31 +0000
                                                        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-20 04:10 -0800
                                                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond mark.bluemel@gmail.com - 2017-11-20 01:00 -0800
                                              Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-19 21:23 +0100
                                                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-19 20:41 +0000
                                                  Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-19 23:12 +0100
                                                    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-19 22:37 +0000
                                                      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-19 23:52 +0100
                                                        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-20 11:18 +0000
                                                          Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-20 12:34 +0100
                                                            Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2017-11-20 03:56 -0800
                                                              Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-20 13:36 +0100
                                                                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2017-11-20 05:19 -0800
                                                                  Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-20 16:37 +0100
                                                                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-11-20 14:31 +0000
                                                                  Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2017-11-20 07:14 -0800
                                                                    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-20 16:54 +0100
                                                                      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond mark.bluemel@gmail.com - 2017-11-20 08:05 -0800
                                                                        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-11-20 11:18 -0500
                                                                          Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-20 20:11 +0100
                                                                            Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-11-20 14:27 -0500
                                                                              Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-11-20 11:40 -0800
                                                                              Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-20 22:17 +0100
                                                                            Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-21 09:01 +1300
                                                                              Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-20 22:21 +0100
                                                                                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-21 10:37 +1300
                                                                      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2017-11-20 09:36 -0800
                                                                        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-20 20:14 +0100
                                                                        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2017-11-20 12:18 -0700
                                                                        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-11-20 11:33 -0800
                                                                      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-11-20 11:48 -0800
                                                                    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-11-20 16:26 +0000
                                                                    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-20 19:10 +0000
                                                                      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-21 09:53 +1300
                                                                        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-21 03:42 -0800
                                                                          Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-21 13:18 +0100
                                                                            Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-21 04:49 -0800
                                                                              Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-21 15:49 +0100
                                                                                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2017-11-21 07:41 -0800
                                                                          Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-21 12:39 +0000
                                                                          Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-22 08:20 +1300
                                                                          Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-11-21 12:33 -0800
                                                                            Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-11-21 15:58 -0500
                                                                              Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-21 16:41 -0800
                                                                                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-22 01:01 +0000
                                                                                  Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-22 14:21 +1300
                                                                                    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-22 01:50 +0000
                                                                                      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-22 14:57 +1300
                                                                                    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2017-11-22 18:31 +0000
                                                                                      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-11-22 10:58 -0800
                                                                                        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2017-11-22 20:50 +0000
                                                                                          Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-11-22 13:04 -0800
                                                                                          Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2017-11-22 13:09 -0800
                                                                                            Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2017-11-24 06:24 +0000
                                                                                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2017-11-21 20:01 -0600
                                                                                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-22 10:00 +0100
                                                                                  Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-22 11:03 +0000
                                                                                    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-22 12:38 +0100
                                                                                      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> - 2017-11-22 11:50 +0000
                                                                                        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-22 15:18 +0100
                                                                                      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-22 13:19 +0000
                                                                                        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-22 15:47 +0100
                                                                                          Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-22 16:04 +0000
                                                                                            Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-11-22 16:45 +0000
                                                                                              Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-11-22 12:08 -0500
                                                                                                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2017-11-22 10:02 -0800
                                                                                                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-22 21:56 +0100
                                                                                              Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-22 20:22 +0000
                                                                                                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-22 21:59 +0100
                                                                                                  Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-22 21:15 +0000
                                                                                                    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2017-11-22 13:37 -0800
                                                                                                      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-22 22:04 +0000
                                                                                                        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-23 18:25 +1300
                                                                                                          Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-23 18:16 +0000
                                                                                                            Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-23 10:27 -0800
                                                                                                            Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2017-11-23 12:50 -0800
                                                                                                        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-23 09:18 +0100
                                                                                                    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-23 09:15 +0100
                                                                                                      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-11-23 12:48 -0800
                                                                                                        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-23 22:18 +0000
                                                                                                        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-24 09:38 +0100
                                                                                                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-22 21:00 +0000
                                                                                                  Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-11-22 13:40 -0800
                                                                                                    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-22 22:24 +0000
                                                                                                      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-11-22 15:18 -0800
                                                                                                    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> - 2017-11-23 02:34 +0000
                                                                                                  Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-22 13:45 -0800
                                                                                                    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-22 14:34 -0800
                                                                                                  Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-23 18:16 +1300
                                                                                                    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-23 10:23 +0000
                                                                                                      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-23 12:13 +0100
                                                                                                  Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-23 09:30 +0100
                                                                                                    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2017-11-23 02:21 -0800
                                                                                                    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-23 13:49 +0000
                                                                                                      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-23 16:07 +0100
                                                                                                        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-23 16:03 +0000
                                                                                                          Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-24 09:09 +0100
                                                                                                      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-24 08:02 +1300
                                                                                                        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-23 11:26 -0800
                                                                                                          Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-23 11:37 -0800
                                                                                                          Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-23 19:56 +0000
                                                                                                            Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-23 12:07 -0800
                                                                                                              Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-23 20:31 +0000
                                                                                                              Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-23 12:38 -0800
                                                                                                        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-23 19:32 +0000
                                                                                                          Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-24 08:34 +1300
                                                                                                            Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-23 20:24 +0000
                                                                                                            Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2017-11-24 06:34 +0000
                                                                                                              Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-24 20:05 +1300
                                                                                                                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-24 11:57 +0000
                                                                                                                  Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-24 04:25 -0800
                                                                                                                    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-24 13:02 +0000
                                                                                                                      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-24 07:31 -0800
                                                                                                                      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2017-11-24 13:32 -0500
                                                                                                                        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-11-24 14:05 -0800
                                                                                                                  Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-25 12:03 +1300
                                                                                                                    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Sjouke Burry <burrynulnulfour@ppllaanneett.nnll> - 2017-11-25 00:23 +0100
                                                                                                                    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-25 00:41 +0000
                                                                                                                      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Melzzzzz <Melzzzzz@zzzzz.com> - 2017-11-25 00:58 +0000
                                                                                                                      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2017-11-24 20:28 -0500
                                                                                                                        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-25 02:36 +0000
                                                                                                                          Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Melzzzzz <Melzzzzz@zzzzz.com> - 2017-11-25 02:53 +0000
                                                                                                                          Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2017-11-24 22:42 -0600
                                                                                                                          Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2017-11-25 10:34 -0500
                                                                                                                            Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2017-11-25 17:13 +0000
                                                                                                                              Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2017-11-25 13:32 -0500
                                                                                                                                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-25 10:38 -0800
                                                                                                                                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2017-11-25 19:17 +0000
                                                                                                                            Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-26 08:43 +1300
                                                                                                                      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-25 19:46 +1300
                                                                                                                        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-25 11:14 +0000
                                                                                      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond luser droog <luser.droog@gmail.com> - 2017-11-22 08:44 -0800
                                                                                  Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-22 03:19 -0800
                                                                                  Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-11-22 09:45 -0500
                                                                                    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-22 15:52 +0100
                                                                    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2017-11-20 12:14 -0700
                                                                  Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-20 16:45 +0100
                                                      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-20 17:12 +1300
                                                      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Reinhardt Behm <rbehm@hushmail.com> - 2017-11-20 13:14 +0800
                                                      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond asetofsymbols@gmail.com - 2017-11-19 22:38 -0800
                                          Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-19 18:43 +0100
                                            Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-19 18:07 +0000
                                              Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2017-11-19 10:38 -0800
                                              Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-19 22:30 +0100
                                                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2017-11-19 14:22 -0800
                                              Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond ruben safir <ruben@mrbrklyn.com> - 2017-11-25 11:46 -0500
                                                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-25 17:19 +0000
                                                  Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-26 08:46 +1300
                                                    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-25 20:59 +0000
                                                      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-26 11:54 +1300
                                                        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-25 23:34 +0000
                                                          Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-26 14:19 +1300
                                                            Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-26 11:39 +0000
                                                              Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-26 13:20 +0100
                                                                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-26 13:43 +0000
                                                                  Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-26 17:32 +0100
                                                                    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-26 17:31 +0000
                                                                      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-26 22:11 +0100
                                                    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2017-11-26 06:53 +0000
                                            Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-19 19:50 +0000
                                      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-17 17:37 +0100
                                    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2017-11-17 07:54 -0800
                                      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-17 17:45 +0100
                                      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-11-17 11:15 -0800
                                        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2017-11-17 19:36 +0000
                                        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-19 23:03 +0100
                                    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-17 16:02 +0000
                                      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-17 08:12 -0800
                                      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-11-17 16:44 +0000
                                      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-17 17:53 +0100
                                      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-18 08:04 +1300
                                        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-17 19:46 +0000
                                          Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-18 11:12 +1300
                                            Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-17 23:00 +0000
                                              Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-18 12:14 +1300
                                                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-17 23:35 +0000
                                                  Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-18 13:27 +1300
                                                    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-18 01:57 +0000
                                                      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-19 12:09 +1300
                                                        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-18 23:39 +0000
                                                          Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-19 13:30 +1300
                                                            Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-19 01:17 +0000
                                                              Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-19 14:37 +1300
                                                    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-18 12:52 +0000
                                                      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-19 10:33 +1300
                                                        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-11-18 22:04 -0500
                                                          Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-19 17:30 +1300
                                    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-17 08:02 -0800
                                      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-23 03:15 -0800
                                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2017-11-17 17:39 +0000
                    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2017-11-16 19:13 +0000
                  Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2017-11-16 06:48 -0800
                    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-11-16 17:03 +0000
                      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2017-11-16 09:24 -0800
                        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-16 09:45 -0800
                        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-11-16 10:57 -0800
                        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-16 14:13 -0600
                          Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-11-17 11:24 -0800
                            Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-18 09:53 -0600
                        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-11-16 23:44 +0000
                  Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-11-16 08:35 -0800
        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2017-11-15 16:28 -0800
        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-15 23:00 -0600
          Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-16 14:38 +0000
            Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-16 12:15 -0600
              Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-17 00:44 +0000
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-17 13:54 -0600
              Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-17 09:51 +0100
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-17 12:28 -0600
                  Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-11-17 10:56 -0800
                  Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-11-17 11:47 -0800
                    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-11-17 20:16 +0000
                      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-11-17 12:57 -0800
                      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-17 15:07 -0600
    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2017-11-15 02:33 +0100
      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-11-14 18:21 -0800
      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> - 2017-11-15 04:04 +0000
        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2017-11-15 01:56 -0800
          Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> - 2017-11-15 10:49 +0000
            Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2017-11-15 03:42 -0800
              Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-15 13:13 +0100
          Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-15 12:16 +0100
          Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-11-15 11:47 +0000
      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-16 04:58 -0800
        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-16 15:22 +0100
          Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-16 08:07 -0800
            Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-16 16:17 -0600
        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> - 2017-11-16 14:45 +0000
          Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-16 08:21 -0800
        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-11-16 08:25 -0800
          Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-16 08:37 -0800
            Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-11-16 10:44 -0800
              Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-16 11:16 -0800
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-17 04:39 -0800
        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2017-11-16 19:51 +0100
          Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-16 11:37 -0800
            Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-16 11:58 -0800
            Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-11-16 12:09 -0800
              Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-11-17 02:53 -0800
          Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-11-16 20:36 +0000
            Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-11-16 12:40 -0800
            Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2017-11-16 23:54 +0100
              Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2017-11-16 18:08 -0500
              Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Melzzzzz <Melzzzzz@zzzzz.com> - 2017-11-16 23:27 +0000
              Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-17 12:32 +1300
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2017-11-18 06:50 -0500
                  Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-11-18 04:15 -0800
                    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-18 12:44 +0000
              Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-17 10:10 +0100
              Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-11-17 14:02 +0000
            Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2017-11-16 18:06 -0500
              Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2017-11-17 01:01 +0100
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2017-11-18 06:45 -0500
                  Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2017-11-18 13:07 +0000
                    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2017-11-19 09:16 -0500
              Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-11-16 16:03 -0800
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2017-11-18 06:47 -0500
                  Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Melzzzzz <Melzzzzz@zzzzz.com> - 2017-11-18 13:13 +0000
                  Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-18 14:04 +0000
                    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Melzzzzz <Melzzzzz@zzzzz.com> - 2017-11-18 14:38 +0000
                      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-11-18 09:59 -0800
                    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-11-20 13:23 -0800
              Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-17 10:30 +0100
              Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2017-11-18 14:42 +0100
          Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-17 16:43 +1300
            Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-17 10:32 +0100
    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2017-11-15 22:17 +0800
      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "Pascal J. Bourguignon" <pjb@informatimago.com> - 2017-11-15 15:54 +0100
        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-15 15:12 +0000
          Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Melzzzzz <Melzzzzz@zzzzz.com> - 2017-11-15 15:15 +0000
            Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-15 15:35 +0000
              Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-15 17:31 +0100
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-11-15 08:39 -0800
                  Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-11-15 17:10 +0000
                    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-11-15 17:31 +0000
                    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-15 18:26 +0000
                      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-11-16 01:19 +0100
                  Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-11-15 10:54 -0800
            Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "Pascal J. Bourguignon" <pjb@informatimago.com> - 2017-11-15 21:42 +0100
              Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Melzzzzz <Melzzzzz@zzzzz.com> - 2017-11-15 22:52 +0000
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-11-15 23:46 +0000
                  Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Melzzzzz <Melzzzzz@zzzzz.com> - 2017-11-15 23:56 +0000
              Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-11-16 13:29 +0000
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-11-16 05:43 -0800
                  Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-11-16 14:53 +0000
                    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-11-16 07:00 -0800
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "Pascal J. Bourguignon" <pjb@informatimago.com> - 2017-11-16 16:10 +0100
                  Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-11-16 16:10 +0000
                    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-11-16 11:42 -0500
                      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-11-16 17:06 +0000
                        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-11-16 09:37 -0800
          Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "Pascal J. Bourguignon" <pjb@informatimago.com> - 2017-11-15 21:42 +0100
        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-11-15 15:16 +0000
        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-11-15 12:25 -0500
          Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "Pascal J. Bourguignon" <pjb@informatimago.com> - 2017-11-15 21:50 +0100
            Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-11-15 15:54 -0500
              Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "Pascal J. Bourguignon" <pjb@informatimago.com> - 2017-11-15 23:36 +0100
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-11-15 17:47 -0500
                  Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "Pascal J. Bourguignon" <pjb@informatimago.com> - 2017-11-16 00:44 +0100
                    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Melzzzzz <Melzzzzz@zzzzz.com> - 2017-11-15 23:54 +0000
                      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "Pascal J. Bourguignon" <pjb@informatimago.com> - 2017-11-16 01:28 +0100
                        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-11-15 16:46 -0800
                          Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Melzzzzz <Melzzzzz@zzzzz.com> - 2017-11-16 00:49 +0000
                          Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "Pascal J. Bourguignon" <pjb@informatimago.com> - 2017-11-16 15:47 +0100
                            Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Melzzzzz <Melzzzzz@zzzzz.com> - 2017-11-16 15:46 +0000
                              Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "Pascal J. Bourguignon" <pjb@informatimago.com> - 2017-11-16 17:26 +0100
                                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> - 2017-11-16 17:14 +0000
                                  Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2017-11-16 13:34 -0600
                                    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-11-16 11:56 -0800
                          Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2017-11-16 15:19 -0600
                            Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-11-16 13:50 -0800
                              Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2017-11-16 18:11 -0500
                        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Melzzzzz <Melzzzzz@zzzzz.com> - 2017-11-16 00:49 +0000
                          Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2017-11-16 02:06 -0800
                            Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Melzzzzz <Melzzzzz@zzzzz.com> - 2017-11-16 15:43 +0000
                              Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> - 2017-11-16 16:01 +0000
                    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-11-15 16:21 -0800
                    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-11-15 22:24 -0500
                      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "Pascal J. Bourguignon" <pjb@informatimago.com> - 2017-11-16 16:01 +0100
                        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-11-16 11:54 -0500
                Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2017-11-15 14:54 -0800
        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2017-11-16 21:20 +0800
    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Jens Stuckelberger <Jens_Stuckelberger@nowhere.net> - 2017-11-15 15:17 +0000
      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-11-15 12:31 -0500
    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2017-11-15 16:07 +0000
    Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond John Bode <jfbode1029@gmail.com> - 2017-11-15 11:08 -0800
      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-11-15 14:28 -0500
        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond John Bode <jfbode1029@gmail.com> - 2017-11-15 12:31 -0800
      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2017-11-15 16:28 -0800
      Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2017-11-19 15:38 -0600
        Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond Reinhardt Behm <rbehm@hushmail.com> - 2017-11-20 12:55 +0800
          Re: "The long goodbye to C" by Eric Raymond "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-11-20 10:39 -0500

Page 19 of 23 — ← Prev page 1 … 17 18 [19] 20 21 … 23  Next page →


#122779

FromChris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us>
Date2017-11-16 18:08 -0500
Message-ID<oul6h4$r18$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#122774
jacobnavia wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> 1) The GC is no longer noticeable in modern machines.

I tend to doubt that.

> <snip>
>
> Any non deterministic system like malloc/free,

Whaaaaa? Surely you jest.

-- 
	The Priest's grey nimbus in a niche where he dressed discreetly.
I will not sleep here tonight. Home also I cannot go.
	A voice, sweetened and sustained, called to him from the sea.
Turning the curve he waved his hand.  A sleek brown head, a seal's, far
out on the water, round.  Usurper.
		-- James Joyce, "Ulysses"

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#122782

FromMelzzzzz <Melzzzzz@zzzzz.com>
Date2017-11-16 23:27 +0000
Message-ID<oul6th$51m$1@news.albasani.net>
In reply to#122774
On 2017-11-16, jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> wrote:
> Le 16/11/2017 à 21:36, Scott Lurndal a écrit :
>> jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> writes:
>>> Le 16/11/2017 à 13:58, Thiago Adams a écrit :
>>>> GC is a bad idea.
>>>
>>> It is an excellent idea.
>> 
>>>
>>> Many languages exist that use the GC. They are used by thousands and
>>> thousands of programmers, and they exist for many reasons but one of
>>> them is that they provide an easy to use AUTOMATIC heap and RAM
>>> management system that frees the programmer from counting and recounting
>>> each piece of RAM and leaving that job to the machine.
>> 
>> And there are many more programmers who don't use Java specifically
>> because of Garbage Collection (and the associated non-determinism).
>> 
>
> 1) The GC is no longer noticeable in modern machines. Look for instance 
> an embedded system with an ARM64 processor: it has a quad core CPU, 4GB 
> RAM and a price of just 20 dollars.
>
> 2) When you call free() the machine does a GC of the unused space trying 
> to consolidate RAM and avoid having too many small blocks. free/malloc 
> aren't deterministic either, so you would have to just use static RAM, 
> what many small embedded system do. Many people think that malloc/free 
> are instantaneous. No, they are not!
>
> 3) There are many reasons to not use Java, but fear of the GC is a very 
> small percentage of them, but I have no real data to support this.
>
> But, by the way, where you have your data from? Is there any evidence 
> for what you say? Yes, in C groups many people aren't fans of Java, but 
> besides this newsgroup have you any data about that?
>
> Any non deterministic system like malloc/free, Java, or whatever, is not 
> accepted in a real time system if the time the machine is busy with GC 
> is so important. But C is NOT for small micro controllers only. There 
> are other applications there, as you may know...
>
>
Interesting aproach to GC is in nim language. There you have GC per
thread, which means that only thread that is GC-ed is stopped while rest
are running. This only draback is that you can't have shared queue,
but use channels (send/recieve).
This has much better performance then global GC.

-- 
press any key to continue or any other to quit...

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#122783

FromIan Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com>
Date2017-11-17 12:32 +1300
Message-ID<f76lh8Fk4dnU2@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#122774
On 11/17/2017 11:54 AM, jacobnavia wrote:
> Le 16/11/2017 à 21:36, Scott Lurndal a écrit :
>> jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> writes:
>>> Le 16/11/2017 à 13:58, Thiago Adams a écrit :
>>>> GC is a bad idea.
>>>
>>> It is an excellent idea.
>>
>>>
>>> Many languages exist that use the GC. They are used by thousands and
>>> thousands of programmers, and they exist for many reasons but one of
>>> them is that they provide an easy to use AUTOMATIC heap and RAM
>>> management system that frees the programmer from counting and recounting
>>> each piece of RAM and leaving that job to the machine.
>>
>> And there are many more programmers who don't use Java specifically
>> because of Garbage Collection (and the associated non-determinism).
>>
> 
> 1) The GC is no longer noticeable in modern machines.

It is when the workload is high, such as compiling a non-trivial Android 
application.  That's one reason why Java has so many GC tuning options.
> 2) When you call free() the machine does a GC of the unused space trying
> to consolidate RAM and avoid having too many small blocks. free/malloc
> aren't deterministic either, so you would have to just use static RAM,
> what many small embedded system do. Many people think that malloc/free
> are instantaneous. No, they are not!

They can be deterministic if the library used to implement them is 
written that way.  One of the good features of C (and C++) is the 
ability to provide a specialised allocator (which may be a GC allocator) 
to meet specific needs.  One of the big drawbacks of languages which 
rely on GC is you can't (easily if at all) specialise the allocator.  I 
guess that's why Java keeps getting new allocator tweaks.

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#122911

FromChris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us>
Date2017-11-18 06:50 -0500
Message-ID<oup7j1$67e$6@dont-email.me>
In reply to#122783
Ian Collins wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> On 11/17/2017 11:54 AM, jacobnavia wrote:
>> Le 16/11/2017 à 21:36, Scott Lurndal a écrit :
>>> jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> writes:
>>>> Le 16/11/2017 à 13:58, Thiago Adams a écrit :
>>>>> GC is a bad idea.
>>>>
>>>> It is an excellent idea.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Many languages exist that use the GC. They are used by thousands and
>>>> thousands of programmers, and they exist for many reasons but one of
>>>> them is that they provide an easy to use AUTOMATIC heap and RAM
>>>> management system that frees the programmer from counting and recounting
>>>> each piece of RAM and leaving that job to the machine.
>>>
>>> And there are many more programmers who don't use Java specifically
>>> because of Garbage Collection (and the associated non-determinism).
>>>
>> 
>> 1) The GC is no longer noticeable in modern machines.
>
> It is when the workload is high, such as compiling a non-trivial Android 
> application.  That's one reason why Java has so many GC tuning options.

As does C#.

>> 2) When you call free() the machine does a GC of the unused space trying
>> to consolidate RAM and avoid having too many small blocks. free/malloc
>> aren't deterministic either, so you would have to just use static RAM,
>> what many small embedded system do. Many people think that malloc/free
>> are instantaneous. No, they are not!
>
> They can be deterministic if the library used to implement them is 
> written that way.  One of the good features of C (and C++) is the 
> ability to provide a specialised allocator (which may be a GC allocator) 
> to meet specific needs.  One of the big drawbacks of languages which 
> rely on GC is you can't (easily if at all) specialise the allocator.  I 
> guess that's why Java keeps getting new allocator tweaks.

Yeah, although "conveniences" turn out to be limiting in the long term, and
that's why you get new versions of the language allowing you to turn
handsprings to do the things they told you were baaaaaad in earlier versions
of the language :-D

-- 
Debian Hint #40: If you install the command-not-found package, attempting to
run a command you don't have installed will tell you what package to install to
obtain that command.

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#122912

From"Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com>
Date2017-11-18 04:15 -0800
Message-ID<c359b9ee-a300-42b7-a569-bbbdc1751b6f@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#122911
On Saturday, November 18, 2017 at 7:03:53 AM UTC-5, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
> Ian Collins wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

Why do you disrespect people so with your response heading:

    ".. wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:"

It's not funny, and it demeans everyone you respond to, casting them 
into the role of expecting something in exchange for their post.
Some people post just to help people.  Some people are just wanting 
to help others to be that kind of person.

I realize you intend it to be humorous, but look at the words you use.
It's like sarcasm.  People understand sarcasm, but the actual words 
used are hurtful.  You should try using only positive, encouraging 
things.  It will uplift people, and make you also feel better on the 
inside, giving a little bounce to your step.

-- 
Rick C. Hodgin 

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#122913

Frombartc <bc@freeuk.com>
Date2017-11-18 12:44 +0000
Message-ID<0WVPB.15566$x74.12830@fx33.am4>
In reply to#122912
On 18/11/2017 12:15, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> On Saturday, November 18, 2017 at 7:03:53 AM UTC-5, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>> Ian Collins wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
> 
> Why do you disrespect people so with your response heading:
> 
>      ".. wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:"
> 
> It's not funny, and it demeans everyone you respond to, casting them
> into the role of expecting something in exchange for their post.
> Some people post just to help people.  Some people are just wanting
> to help others to be that kind of person.
> 
> I realize you intend it to be humorous, but look at the words you use.
> It's like sarcasm.  People understand sarcasm, but the actual words
> used are hurtful.  You should try using only positive, encouraging
> things.  It will uplift people, and make you also feel better on the
> inside, giving a little bounce to your step.


Listen, if the guy thinks he has to pay us royalties, then let him...


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#122802

FromDavid Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Date2017-11-17 10:10 +0100
Message-ID<oum932$j6j$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#122774
On 16/11/17 23:54, jacobnavia wrote:
> Le 16/11/2017 à 21:36, Scott Lurndal a écrit :
>> jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> writes:
>>> Le 16/11/2017 à 13:58, Thiago Adams a écrit :
>>>> GC is a bad idea.
>>>
>>> It is an excellent idea.
>>
>>>
>>> Many languages exist that use the GC. They are used by thousands and
>>> thousands of programmers, and they exist for many reasons but one of
>>> them is that they provide an easy to use AUTOMATIC heap and RAM
>>> management system that frees the programmer from counting and recounting
>>> each piece of RAM and leaving that job to the machine.
>>
>> And there are many more programmers who don't use Java specifically
>> because of Garbage Collection (and the associated non-determinism).
>>
> 
> 1) The GC is no longer noticeable in modern machines. Look for instance
> an embedded system with an ARM64 processor: it has a quad core CPU, 4GB
> RAM and a price of just 20 dollars.

It is a common misunderstanding to think that the cost-price for a cpu
is the key factor in how much power you can put in an embedded system.
For the great majority of systems being designed, the real cost price of
putting a chip like this in a system, rather than a 50 MHz
microcontroller, is closer to $500 than $20.  I can give more details if
you want, or you can trust someone who actually works with embedded systems.

GC is irrelevant to most small embedded systems - because you don't have
dynamic memory of any sort.  Until you are of a size where you are
looking at embedded Linux, dynamic memory is something you try to avoid
- and if you /do/ need it, you will often use memory pools or other
fine-tuned allocation systems.  You will also see embedded systems that
have malloc and where "free" is an empty function - but there is no
garbage collection to be seen.  There is simply no deallocation.


> 
> 2) When you call free() the machine does a GC of the unused space trying
> to consolidate RAM and avoid having too many small blocks. free/malloc
> aren't deterministic either, so you would have to just use static RAM,
> what many small embedded system do. Many people think that malloc/free
> are instantaneous. No, they are not!

That is one of the many reasons why small embedded systems - or any code
that needs to be reliable and deterministic in its speeds - avoids
dynamic memory.

> 
> 3) There are many reasons to not use Java, but fear of the GC is a very
> small percentage of them, but I have no real data to support this.

I too wondered if Scott had data to support his claim.  I have no data
either way.

> 
> But, by the way, where you have your data from? Is there any evidence
> for what you say? Yes, in C groups many people aren't fans of Java, but
> besides this newsgroup have you any data about that?
> 
> Any non deterministic system like malloc/free, Java, or whatever, is not
> accepted in a real time system if the time the machine is busy with GC
> is so important. But C is NOT for small micro controllers only. There
> are other applications there, as you may know...
> 

Well, for C on small embedded systems, garbage collection is certainly
not useful or wanted.  For C on larger systems - yes, I am sure garbage
collection can be a useful way to handle memory.  It has its pros and
cons - but the Boehm GC website has some examples of real-world uses.

And I think gcc uses a similar system internally in the compiler :-)

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#122818

Fromscott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
Date2017-11-17 14:02 +0000
Message-ID<7_BPB.5232$Pz4.3165@fx15.iad>
In reply to#122774
jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> writes:
>Le 16/11/2017 à 21:36, Scott Lurndal a écrit :
>> jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> writes:
>>> Le 16/11/2017 à 13:58, Thiago Adams a écrit :
>>>> GC is a bad idea.
>>>
>>> It is an excellent idea.
>> 
>>>
>>> Many languages exist that use the GC. They are used by thousands and
>>> thousands of programmers, and they exist for many reasons but one of
>>> them is that they provide an easy to use AUTOMATIC heap and RAM
>>> management system that frees the programmer from counting and recounting
>>> each piece of RAM and leaving that job to the machine.
>> 
>> And there are many more programmers who don't use Java specifically
>> because of Garbage Collection (and the associated non-determinism).
>> 
>
>1) The GC is no longer noticeable in modern machines. Look for instance 
>an embedded system with an ARM64 processor: it has a quad core CPU, 4GB 
>RAM and a price of just 20 dollars.

Specious argument.  It is quite noticible, depending on the application,
the JVM and the host OS.

>
>2) When you call free() the machine does a GC of the unused space trying 
>to consolidate RAM and avoid having too many small blocks. free/malloc 
>aren't deterministic either, so you would have to just use static RAM, 
>what many small embedded system do. Many people think that malloc/free 
>are instantaneous. No, they are not!

And people who care about this use O(1) pool-based allocators with
internal lookaside lists.


>But, by the way, where you have your data from? Is there any evidence 
>for what you say? Yes, in C groups many people aren't fans of Java, but 
>besides this newsgroup have you any data about that?

15 years of attending JavaOne (4 as an exhibitor).

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#122778

FromChris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us>
Date2017-11-16 18:06 -0500
Message-ID<oul6e5$r18$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#122763
Scott Lurndal wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> writes:
>>Le 16/11/2017 à 13:58, Thiago Adams a écrit :
>>> GC is a bad idea.
>>
>>It is an excellent idea.
>
>>Many languages exist that use the GC. They are used by thousands and 
>>thousands of programmers, and they exist for many reasons but one of 
>>them is that they provide an easy to use AUTOMATIC heap and RAM 
>>management system that frees the programmer from counting and recounting 
>>each piece of RAM and leaving that job to the machine.
>
> And there are many more programmers who don't use Java specifically
> because of Garbage Collection (and the associated non-determinism).

I haven't worked a lot in Java, but lately have done a good amount of C#.

As a C++ guy, I cringe when I assign a string (String), knowing that it will
hang around long after its usage, and that bunches of them will eventually
be garbage-collected, and the web app will pause for many seconds before
responding.

Give me RAII any day.

-- 
Best of all is never to have been born.  Second best is to die soon.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#122789

Fromjacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr>
Date2017-11-17 01:01 +0100
Message-ID<oul8s0$d0m$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#122778
Le 17/11/2017 à 00:06, Chris Ahlstrom a écrit :
> Scott Lurndal wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
> 

> As a C++ guy, I cringe when I assign a string (String), knowing that it will
> hang around long after its usage, and that bunches of them will eventually
> be garbage-collected, and the web app will pause for many seconds before
> responding.
> 
> Give me RAII any day.
> 

Yes, C++ is the best since the discovery of sliced bread but...

If the object's class implements IDisposable method you can call 
"Dispose" if you want to avoid creating too much garbage.

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#122909

FromChris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us>
Date2017-11-18 06:45 -0500
Message-ID<oup794$67e$4@dont-email.me>
In reply to#122789
jacobnavia wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> Le 17/11/2017 à 00:06, Chris Ahlstrom a écrit :
>> Scott Lurndal wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>> 
>
>> As a C++ guy, I cringe when I assign a string (String), knowing that it will
>> hang around long after its usage, and that bunches of them will eventually
>> be garbage-collected, and the web app will pause for many seconds before
>> responding.
>> 
>> Give me RAII any day.
>
> Yes, C++ is the best since the discovery of sliced bread but...
>
> If the object's class implements IDisposable method you can call 
> "Dispose" if you want to avoid creating too much garbage.

I don't want to call a destructor.  Like I said, give me RAII.

You write a constructor, and, if need be, a destructor.  Done.

-- 
Q:	Why did the germ cross the microscope?
A:	To get to the other slide.

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#122916

FromGareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com>
Date2017-11-18 13:07 +0000
Message-ID<874lprag5v.fsf@gmail.com>
In reply to#122909
Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> writes:

> I don't want to call a destructor.  Like I said, give me RAII.
>
> You write a constructor, and, if need be, a destructor.  Done.

Quite. Constructor() followed by manual Dispose() is *exactly* the same
idiom as malloc()/free().  To suggest this is somehow a useful
replacement for RAII fundamentally misunderstands the problem.

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#122987

FromChris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us>
Date2017-11-19 09:16 -0500
Message-ID<ous4gt$rmb$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#122916
Gareth Owen wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> writes:
>
>> I don't want to call a destructor.  Like I said, give me RAII.
>>
>> You write a constructor, and, if need be, a destructor.  Done.
>
> Quite. Constructor() followed by manual Dispose() is *exactly* the same
> idiom as malloc()/free().  To suggest this is somehow a useful
> replacement for RAII fundamentally misunderstands the problem.

C# does have the "using { }" idiom, for IDisposable stuff.
Another example of one language first rejecting the idiom of the other, then
putting it back in as a canard ;->

-- 
Debian Hint #11: Keep up to date on what's going on - read the Debian
Project News. Read it on the web at http://www.debian.org/News/weekly/

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#122790

Fromsupercat@casperkitty.com
Date2017-11-16 16:03 -0800
Message-ID<b7f9d3f6-b750-44b6-bd00-31bed0ae63c4@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#122778
On Thursday, November 16, 2017 at 5:19:41 PM UTC-6, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
> As a C++ guy, I cringe when I assign a string (String), knowing that it will
> hang around long after its usage, and that bunches of them will eventually
> be garbage-collected, and the web app will pause for many seconds before
> responding.

If a String exists, assigning a reference into a variable of String or
Object type will not create a new one.  Creating a new String will consume
memory from the "Eden" heap which is IIRC typically around 1MiB.  Once
that is full, all objects in that heap to which references still exist will
be copied elsewhere, making the Eden heap available for use again.  If the
last reference to a String (or the last remaining object which held a direct
or indirect reference to that String) gets overwritten soon after the String
is created, the next GC cycle won't "free" the space occupied thereby
because nothing in the system will notice that the String had ever existed.

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#122910

FromChris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us>
Date2017-11-18 06:47 -0500
Message-ID<oup7cm$67e$5@dont-email.me>
In reply to#122790
supercat@casperkitty.com wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> On Thursday, November 16, 2017 at 5:19:41 PM UTC-6, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>> As a C++ guy, I cringe when I assign a string (String), knowing that it will
>> hang around long after its usage, and that bunches of them will eventually
>> be garbage-collected, and the web app will pause for many seconds before
>> responding.
>
> If a String exists, assigning a reference into a variable of String or
> Object type will not create a new one.

Since C# Strings are immutable, making a modification to the String *must*
create a new string.

> Creating a new String will consume
> memory from the "Eden" heap which is IIRC typically around 1MiB.  Once
> that is full, all objects in that heap to which references still exist will
> be copied elsewhere, making the Eden heap available for use again.  If the
> last reference to a String (or the last remaining object which held a direct
> or indirect reference to that String) gets overwritten soon after the String
> is created, the next GC cycle won't "free" the space occupied thereby
> because nothing in the system will notice that the String had ever existed.

Hoo boy.

-- 
You will be awarded some great honor.

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#122917

FromMelzzzzz <Melzzzzz@zzzzz.com>
Date2017-11-18 13:13 +0000
Message-ID<oupblq$3t8$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#122910
On 2017-11-18, Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> wrote:
> supercat@casperkitty.com wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>
>> On Thursday, November 16, 2017 at 5:19:41 PM UTC-6, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>>> As a C++ guy, I cringe when I assign a string (String), knowing that it will
>>> hang around long after its usage, and that bunches of them will eventually
>>> be garbage-collected, and the web app will pause for many seconds before
>>> responding.
>>
>> If a String exists, assigning a reference into a variable of String or
>> Object type will not create a new one.
>
> Since C# Strings are immutable, making a modification to the String *must*
> create a new string.

That is why references to String are possible. No need to copy when
thing is immutable. Of course, that means modifying needs completely new
String. I guess that someone decided that immutable Strings are more
common then mutable ones...

-- 
press any key to continue or any other to quit...

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#122922

Frombartc <bc@freeuk.com>
Date2017-11-18 14:04 +0000
Message-ID<N4XPB.46637$Wm2.13918@fx03.am4>
In reply to#122910
On 18/11/2017 11:47, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
> supercat@casperkitty.com wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
> 
>> On Thursday, November 16, 2017 at 5:19:41 PM UTC-6, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>>> As a C++ guy, I cringe when I assign a string (String), knowing that it will
>>> hang around long after its usage, and that bunches of them will eventually
>>> be garbage-collected, and the web app will pause for many seconds before
>>> responding.
>>
>> If a String exists, assigning a reference into a variable of String or
>> Object type will not create a new one.
> 
> Since C# Strings are immutable, making a modification to the String *must*
> create a new string.

Unless there's only one reference to the string.

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#122924

FromMelzzzzz <Melzzzzz@zzzzz.com>
Date2017-11-18 14:38 +0000
Message-ID<oupglk$85e$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#122922
On 2017-11-18, bartc <bc@freeuk.com> wrote:
> On 18/11/2017 11:47, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>> supercat@casperkitty.com wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>> 
>>> On Thursday, November 16, 2017 at 5:19:41 PM UTC-6, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>>>> As a C++ guy, I cringe when I assign a string (String), knowing that it will
>>>> hang around long after its usage, and that bunches of them will eventually
>>>> be garbage-collected, and the web app will pause for many seconds before
>>>> responding.
>>>
>>> If a String exists, assigning a reference into a variable of String or
>>> Object type will not create a new one.
>> 
>> Since C# Strings are immutable, making a modification to the String *must*
>> create a new string.
>
> Unless there's only one reference to the string.
>

Well, you can't make modification in legal way, in such language ;)

>


-- 
press any key to continue or any other to quit...

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#122936

From"Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com>
Date2017-11-18 09:59 -0800
Message-ID<03a73957-77e4-47f0-8f15-1cdc61ddb336@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#122924
On Saturday, November 18, 2017 at 12:01:06 PM UTC-5, rickchod...@gmail.com wrote:
> [snip]

A man named Peter Cheung is impersonating me.  Go here to learn more:

    https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.os.development/lr7c-7kNUxo/qbycC3QUAAAJ

-- 
Rick C. Hodgin

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#123126

Fromsupercat@casperkitty.com
Date2017-11-20 13:23 -0800
Message-ID<e0ffac26-3626-4e7e-be2d-36789ae8a704@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#122922
On Saturday, November 18, 2017 at 8:03:39 AM UTC-6, Bart wrote:
> On 18/11/2017 11:47, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
> > Since C# Strings are immutable, making a modification to the String *must*
> > create a new string.
> 
> Unless there's only one reference to the string.

If one needs a String containing a certain sequence of characters, and does
not know of an existing one, it's necessary to create a new one.  Naive code
like:

    String myString = "";
    for (int i=0; i<30000; i++)
      myString += "-";  // Assume real code would generate stuff to be
                        // appended via some fancier means.

will execute very slowly, since it will generate 30,000 String objects with
a total size of over 400MB.  A better approach would be:

    var sb = new System.Text.StringBuilder();
    for (int i=0; i<30000; i++)
      sb.Append("-");
    String myString = sb.ToString();

That would result in far fewer temporary objects being created.  It's not
generally necessary to be paranoid about the cost of creating strings except
in cases like the above where one would otherwise generate thousands of
large temporary strings, but it is important to know that every new string
generated will require creation of a new string object.

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