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Groups > comp.lang.c > #393426 > unrolled thread

encapsulating directory operations

Started by"Paul Edwards" <mutazilah@gmail.com>
First post2025-05-20 16:06 +1000
Last post2025-05-24 22:10 -0700
Articles 20 on this page of 343 — 23 participants

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Contents

  encapsulating directory operations "Paul Edwards" <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2025-05-20 16:06 +1000
    Re: encapsulating directory operations Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-20 07:27 +0000
      Re: encapsulating directory operations "Paul Edwards" <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2025-05-20 19:33 +1000
        Re: encapsulating directory operations Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-21 00:10 +0000
          Re: encapsulating directory operations "Paul Edwards" <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2025-05-21 10:23 +1000
            Re: encapsulating directory operations Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-21 03:37 +0000
              Re: encapsulating directory operations "Paul Edwards" <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2025-05-21 20:00 +1000
                Re: encapsulating directory operations Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-22 06:49 +0000
                  Re: encapsulating directory operations Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-05-22 07:02 +0000
                Re: encapsulating directory operations Jakob Bohm <egenagwemdimtapsar@jbohm.dk> - 2025-08-17 21:04 +0200
                Re: encapsulating directory operations Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-08-18 00:30 +0000
                  Re: encapsulating directory operations James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2025-08-19 18:09 -0400
              Re: encapsulating directory operations James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2025-05-21 19:51 -0400
                Re: encapsulating directory operations Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-22 05:04 +0000
                  Re: encapsulating directory operations James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2025-05-22 14:13 -0400
                    Re: encapsulating directory operations Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-22 22:46 +0000
                      Re: encapsulating directory operations James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2025-05-22 19:07 -0400
                        Re: encapsulating directory operations Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-05-22 23:15 +0000
                          Re: encapsulating directory operations "Paul Edwards" <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2025-05-23 09:26 +1000
                            Re: encapsulating directory operations Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-05-23 00:44 +0000
                            Re: encapsulating directory operations Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-24 02:26 +0000
                          Re: encapsulating directory operations James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2025-05-22 20:10 -0400
                            Re: encapsulating directory operations Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-05-23 02:08 +0000
                              Re: encapsulating directory operations James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2025-05-23 19:29 -0400
                                Re: encapsulating directory operations Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-05-24 00:08 +0000
      Re: encapsulating directory operations Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2025-05-31 08:20 +0200
        Re: encapsulating directory operations Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-31 21:42 +0000
          Re: encapsulating directory operations Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2025-06-01 07:58 +0200
            Re: encapsulating directory operations Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-06-01 07:43 +0000
              Re: encapsulating directory operations Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2025-06-02 09:35 +0200
                Re: encapsulating directory operations scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-06-02 15:24 +0000
                  Re: encapsulating directory operations James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2025-06-02 19:14 -0400
                    Re: encapsulating directory operations scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-06-02 23:54 +0000
                      Re: encapsulating directory operations Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-06-03 01:02 +0000
                  Re: encapsulating directory operations Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2025-06-03 19:41 +0200
                    Re: encapsulating directory operations scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-06-03 18:25 +0000
                      Re: encapsulating directory operations Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2025-06-06 10:29 +0200
                        Re: encapsulating directory operations scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-06-06 14:10 +0000
                          Re: encapsulating directory operations Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2025-06-06 19:10 +0200
                            Re: encapsulating directory operations scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-06-06 17:24 +0000
                              Re: encapsulating directory operations Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2025-06-06 19:26 +0200
                                Re: encapsulating directory operations wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2025-06-07 04:04 +0800
                                  Re: encapsulating directory operations Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2025-06-07 06:24 +0200
                                    Re: encapsulating directory operations wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2025-06-07 19:58 +0800
                                      Re: encapsulating directory operations Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2025-06-07 18:31 +0200
                                        Re: encapsulating directory operations wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2025-06-08 02:43 +0800
                                          Re: encapsulating directory operations Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2025-06-07 21:22 +0200
                                            Re: encapsulating directory operations wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2025-06-08 03:56 +0800
                                              Re: encapsulating directory operations Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2025-06-07 23:57 +0200
                                              Re: encapsulating directory operations Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2025-06-08 10:06 +0200
                                                Re: encapsulating directory operations Muttley@DastardlyHQ.org - 2025-06-08 08:55 +0000
                                                  Re: encapsulating directory operations Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2025-06-08 17:02 +0200
                                                    Re: encapsulating directory operations Muttley@DastardlyHQ.org - 2025-06-08 15:08 +0000
                                                      Re: encapsulating directory operations Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2025-06-08 17:18 +0200
                                                        Re: encapsulating directory operations Muttley@DastardlyHQ.org - 2025-06-09 09:20 +0000
                                                          Re: encapsulating directory operations Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2025-06-09 12:58 +0200
                                                      Re: encapsulating directory operations scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-06-08 16:55 +0000
                                                        Re: encapsulating directory operations Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-06-08 17:45 +0000
                                                          Re: encapsulating directory operations Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2025-06-10 03:21 -0700
                                                        Re: encapsulating directory operations Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2025-06-08 22:07 +0200
                                                        Re: encapsulating directory operations wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2025-06-09 07:13 +0800
                                                        Re: encapsulating directory operations Muttley@DastardlyHQ.org - 2025-06-09 10:21 +0000
                                                          Re: encapsulating directory operations Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2025-06-09 13:01 +0200
                                                Re: encapsulating directory operations wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2025-06-08 22:52 +0800
                                                  Re: encapsulating directory operations Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2025-06-08 17:06 +0200
                                                    Re: encapsulating directory operations wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2025-06-09 00:28 +0800
                                                      Re: encapsulating directory operations Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2025-06-08 22:05 +0200
                                                        Re: encapsulating directory operations wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2025-06-09 06:51 +0800
                                                Re: encapsulating directory operations Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-06-09 07:59 +0000
                                                  Re: encapsulating directory operations Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2025-06-09 13:04 +0200
                                            Re: encapsulating directory operations Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-06-07 23:12 +0200
                                              Re: encapsulating directory operations Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2025-06-08 17:11 +0200
                                                Re: encapsulating directory operations scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-06-08 16:58 +0000
                                                  Re: encapsulating directory operations "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-06-08 11:48 -0700
                                                  Re: encapsulating directory operations Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2025-06-08 22:09 +0200
                                                    Re: encapsulating directory operations scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-06-09 14:01 +0000
                                                      Re: encapsulating directory operations Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2025-06-09 17:24 +0200
                                                        Re: encapsulating directory operations scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-06-09 15:53 +0000
                                                          Re: encapsulating directory operations Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2025-06-09 19:45 +0200
                                                            Re: encapsulating directory operations scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-06-09 18:33 +0000
                                                              Re: encapsulating directory operations Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2025-06-09 20:39 +0200
                                                              Re: encapsulating directory operations Muttley@DastardlyHQ.org - 2025-06-10 07:21 +0000
                                                                Re: encapsulating directory operations scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-06-10 13:19 +0000
                                                                  Re: encapsulating directory operations Muttley@DastardlyHQ.org - 2025-06-10 14:46 +0000
                                                                  Re: encapsulating directory operations "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-06-10 12:08 -0700
                                                              Re: encapsulating directory operations antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-06-10 20:22 +0000
                                                          Re: encapsulating directory operations Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-06-09 19:22 +0100
                                                      Re: encapsulating directory operations Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2025-06-09 18:59 -0700
                                                        Re: encapsulating directory operations Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2025-06-10 09:51 +0200
                Re: encapsulating directory operations Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-06-03 00:37 +0000
                  Re: encapsulating directory operations Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2025-06-10 14:07 +0200
                    Re: encapsulating directory operations scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-06-10 14:36 +0000
                      Re: encapsulating directory operations Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2025-06-10 16:40 +0200
                      Re: encapsulating directory operations Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-06-10 16:52 +0000
                    Re: encapsulating directory operations Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-06-10 23:33 +0000
                      Re: encapsulating directory operations Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2025-06-11 07:07 +0200
                        Re: encapsulating directory operations Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-06-11 05:34 +0000
                        Re: encapsulating directory operations scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-06-11 13:41 +0000
                          Re: encapsulating directory operations Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2025-06-11 17:33 +0200
                            Re: encapsulating directory operations Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-06-12 01:33 +0000
    Re: encapsulating directory operations Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-05-20 02:18 -0700
      Re: encapsulating directory operations Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-20 10:33 +0100
        Re: encapsulating directory operations "Paul Edwards" <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2025-05-20 19:45 +1000
        Re: encapsulating directory operations David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-05-20 13:42 +0200
        Re: encapsulating directory operations Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-05-20 13:55 +0000
          Re: encapsulating directory operations Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-20 15:05 +0100
            Re: encapsulating directory operations Muttley@DastardlyHQ.org - 2025-05-20 14:09 +0000
              Re: encapsulating directory operations "Paul Edwards" <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2025-05-21 00:15 +1000
            Re: encapsulating directory operations "Paul Edwards" <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2025-05-21 00:48 +1000
              Re: encapsulating directory operations Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-20 16:02 +0100
                Re: encapsulating directory operations "Paul Edwards" <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2025-05-21 01:28 +1000
        Re: encapsulating directory operations Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2025-05-23 05:43 -0700
          Re: encapsulating directory operations Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-23 14:27 +0100
            Re: encapsulating directory operations Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2025-05-23 22:32 -0700
              Re: encapsulating directory operations Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-24 06:54 +0100
                Re: encapsulating directory operations Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2025-05-28 05:41 -0700
                  Re: encapsulating directory operations Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-28 14:10 +0100
                    Re: encapsulating directory operations Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2025-06-11 20:15 -0700
          Re: encapsulating directory operations Peter 'Shaggy' Haywood <phaywood@alphalink.com.au> - 2025-05-26 15:19 +1000
            Re: encapsulating directory operations David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-05-27 16:23 +0200
              Re: encapsulating directory operations Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-05-27 18:10 +0300
                Re: encapsulating directory operations David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-05-27 19:24 +0200
                Re: encapsulating directory operations Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2025-05-27 16:16 -0700
                  Re: encapsulating directory operations Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-05-28 16:04 +0300
                    Re: encapsulating directory operations Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-05-28 22:54 +0000
                      Re: encapsulating directory operations David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-05-29 10:21 +0200
                      Re: encapsulating directory operations Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2025-06-06 17:16 -0700
                    Re: encapsulating directory operations Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2025-06-06 17:26 -0700
            Re: encapsulating directory operations Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2025-05-27 16:18 -0700
      Re: encapsulating directory operations "Paul Edwards" <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2025-05-20 19:36 +1000
        Re: encapsulating directory operations David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-05-20 14:23 +0200
          Re: encapsulating directory operations "Paul Edwards" <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2025-05-20 23:47 +1000
            Re: encapsulating directory operations Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-20 15:37 +0100
              Re: encapsulating directory operations "Paul Edwards" <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2025-05-21 01:11 +1000
                Re: encapsulating directory operations Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-20 16:43 +0100
                  Re: encapsulating directory operations "Paul Edwards" <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2025-05-21 07:15 +1000
                    Re: encapsulating directory operations Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-05-20 22:50 +0000
                  Re: encapsulating directory operations Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-21 01:11 +0000
                  Re: encapsulating directory operations James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2025-05-20 22:40 -0400
                    Re: encapsulating directory operations Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-21 05:50 +0100
                      Re: encapsulating directory operations David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-05-21 10:06 +0200
                        Re: encapsulating directory operations Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-21 09:27 +0100
            Re: encapsulating directory operations David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-05-20 18:19 +0200
              Re: encapsulating directory operations Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-20 17:43 +0100
                Re: encapsulating directory operations Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-05-20 17:14 +0000
                  Re: encapsulating directory operations Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-20 18:20 +0100
                    Re: encapsulating directory operations scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-05-20 17:51 +0000
                      Re: encapsulating directory operations Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-20 19:50 +0100
                    Re: encapsulating directory operations Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-05-20 19:34 +0000
                Re: encapsulating directory operations David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-05-21 10:09 +0200
              Re: encapsulating directory operations Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-05-20 16:51 +0000
              Re: encapsulating directory operations scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-05-20 16:58 +0000
                Re: encapsulating directory operations Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-20 18:09 +0100
                  Re: encapsulating directory operations scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-05-20 17:48 +0000
                    Re: encapsulating directory operations Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-20 19:34 +0100
                Re: encapsulating directory operations "Paul Edwards" <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2025-05-21 07:51 +1000
                  Re: encapsulating directory operations Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-21 05:31 +0100
                    Re: encapsulating directory operations "Paul Edwards" <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2025-05-21 20:08 +1000
                      Re: encapsulating directory operations Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-21 11:28 +0100
                      Re: encapsulating directory operations David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-05-21 17:00 +0200
                        Re: encapsulating directory operations Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-21 16:37 +0100
                          Re: encapsulating directory operations scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-05-21 16:03 +0000
                            Re: encapsulating directory operations Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-05-21 20:21 +0300
                          Re: encapsulating directory operations James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2025-05-22 06:37 -0400
                            Re: encapsulating directory operations Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-05-22 17:53 +0000
                Re: encapsulating directory operations David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-05-21 10:27 +0200
                  Re: encapsulating directory operations "Paul Edwards" <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2025-05-21 20:46 +1000
                    Re: encapsulating directory operations David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-05-21 16:46 +0200
              Re: encapsulating directory operations "Paul Edwards" <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2025-05-21 07:41 +1000
                Re: encapsulating directory operations Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-05-20 15:02 -0700
                Re: encapsulating directory operations Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-21 01:05 +0000
                  Re: encapsulating directory operations "Paul Edwards" <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2025-05-21 19:23 +1000
                    Re: encapsulating directory operations Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-29 07:21 +0000
                      Re: encapsulating directory operations scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-05-29 15:06 +0000
                      Re: encapsulating directory operations "Paul Edwards" <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2025-05-30 18:41 +1000
              Re: encapsulating directory operations "Paul Edwards" <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2025-05-21 08:09 +1000
        Re: encapsulating directory operations Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-21 00:12 +0000
          Re: encapsulating directory operations "Paul Edwards" <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2025-05-21 10:25 +1000
            Re: encapsulating directory operations Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-21 01:03 +0000
      Re: encapsulating directory operations Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2026-01-06 17:58 -0800
    Re: encapsulating directory operations Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-05-20 13:53 +0000
      Re: encapsulating directory operations "Paul Edwards" <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2025-05-21 00:12 +1000
        Re: encapsulating directory operations Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-05-20 14:41 -0700
          Re: encapsulating directory operations "Paul Edwards" <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2025-05-21 08:38 +1000
            Re: encapsulating directory operations "Paul Edwards" <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2025-05-21 09:09 +1000
              Re: encapsulating directory operations Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-05-20 16:22 -0700
              Re: encapsulating directory operations Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-05-21 00:18 +0000
                Re: encapsulating directory operations "Paul Edwards" <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2025-05-21 10:31 +1000
              Re: encapsulating directory operations Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-21 01:02 +0000
            Re: encapsulating directory operations Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-05-20 16:18 -0700
              Re: encapsulating directory operations "Paul Edwards" <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2025-05-21 09:57 +1000
                Re: encapsulating directory operations Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-05-20 22:41 -0700
                  Re: encapsulating directory operations "Paul Edwards" <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2025-05-21 20:41 +1000
                    Re: encapsulating directory operations Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-05-21 11:06 -0700
                      Re: encapsulating directory operations Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-05-21 11:22 -0700
                      Re: encapsulating directory operations scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-05-21 20:58 +0000
                      Re: encapsulating directory operations "Paul Edwards" <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2025-05-23 07:10 +1000
                        Re: encapsulating directory operations Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-05-22 15:32 -0700
                          Re: encapsulating directory operations "Paul Edwards" <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2025-05-23 09:16 +1000
                            Re: encapsulating directory operations Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-05-22 18:38 -0700
                              Re: encapsulating directory operations "Paul Edwards" <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2025-05-26 08:12 +1000
                                Re: encapsulating directory operations Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-05-25 15:34 -0700
                                  Re: encapsulating directory operations "Paul Edwards" <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2025-05-26 09:01 +1000
                                  Re: encapsulating directory operations gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2025-05-25 23:25 +0000
                            Re: encapsulating directory operations Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-05-23 02:28 +0000
                              Re: encapsulating directory operations Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-05-22 21:27 -0700
                            Re: encapsulating directory operations Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-05-23 07:08 +0200
                              Re: encapsulating directory operations Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-05-22 22:20 -0700
                                Re: encapsulating directory operations Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-05-23 07:43 +0200
                                  Re: encapsulating directory operations "Paul Edwards" <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2025-05-26 07:54 +1000
                                    Re: encapsulating directory operations Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-05-25 15:29 -0700
                                      Re: encapsulating directory operations "Paul Edwards" <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2025-05-26 08:40 +1000
                                        Re: encapsulating directory operations Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-05-26 03:29 +0200
                                          Re: encapsulating directory operations "Paul Edwards" <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2025-05-26 11:46 +1000
                                          Re: encapsulating directory operations James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2025-05-26 09:43 -0400
                                            Re: encapsulating directory operations Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-05-26 17:16 +0000
                                        Re: encapsulating directory operations vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-05-26 04:05 +0000
                                    Re: encapsulating directory operations "Paul Edwards" <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2025-05-26 08:31 +1000
                                    Re: encapsulating directory operations Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-05-26 03:37 +0200
                          Re: encapsulating directory operations Richard Harnden <richard.harnden@gmail.invalid> - 2025-05-23 16:09 +0100
                            Re: encapsulating directory operations Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-23 17:50 +0100
                              Re: encapsulating directory operations scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-05-23 16:57 +0000
                                Re: encapsulating directory operations Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-23 18:00 +0100
                              Re: encapsulating directory operations Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-05-23 17:22 +0000
                            Re: encapsulating directory operations Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-05-23 11:10 -0700
                              Re: encapsulating directory operations Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-05-23 20:27 +0000
                                Re: encapsulating directory operations Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-23 21:35 +0100
                                  Re: encapsulating directory operations Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-05-23 21:10 +0000
                                    Re: encapsulating directory operations Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-23 23:13 +0100
                                      Re: encapsulating directory operations Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2025-05-23 22:22 -0700
                                        Re: encapsulating directory operations Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-24 06:46 +0100
                                      Re: encapsulating directory operations Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-29 07:27 +0000
                                        Re: encapsulating directory operations Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-29 09:39 +0100
                                          Re: encapsulating directory operations Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-29 09:37 +0000
                                            Re: encapsulating directory operations James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2025-05-29 06:11 -0400
                                              Re: encapsulating directory operations Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-29 13:41 +0100
                                                Re: encapsulating directory operations scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-05-29 15:08 +0000
                                                  Re: encapsulating directory operations Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-29 17:36 +0100
                                                    Re: encapsulating directory operations Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-05-29 17:18 +0000
                                                      Re: encapsulating directory operations Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-29 18:51 +0100
                                                    Re: encapsulating directory operations "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-05-29 14:31 -0700
                                                Re: encapsulating directory operations "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-05-29 14:29 -0700
                                            Re: encapsulating directory operations Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-29 13:38 +0100
                                              Re: encapsulating directory operations James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2025-05-29 12:55 -0400
                                                Re: encapsulating directory operations Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-29 18:48 +0100
                                              Re: encapsulating directory operations Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-30 03:10 +0000
                                              Re: encapsulating directory operations David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-05-30 11:20 +0200
                                                Re: encapsulating directory operations Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-30 11:54 +0100
                                                  Re: encapsulating directory operations David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-05-30 16:02 +0200
                                                    Re: encapsulating directory operations Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-30 16:26 +0100
                                                      Re: encapsulating directory operations David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-05-30 17:42 +0200
                                                        Re: encapsulating directory operations Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-30 17:39 +0100
                                                  Re: encapsulating directory operations Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2025-07-01 10:09 -0700
                                                Re: encapsulating directory operations Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-05-30 18:04 +0000
                                          Re: encapsulating directory operations David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-05-29 21:24 +0200
                                            Re: encapsulating directory operations Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-05-29 23:24 +0300
                                            Re: encapsulating directory operations Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-29 21:27 +0100
                                              Re: encapsulating directory operations Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-05-29 13:45 -0700
                                                Re: encapsulating directory operations Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-29 22:09 +0100
                                                  Re: encapsulating directory operations scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-05-29 21:19 +0000
                                                    Re: encapsulating directory operations Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-29 22:40 +0100
                                                    Re: encapsulating directory operations "Paul Edwards" <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2025-05-30 18:18 +1000
                                                      Re: encapsulating directory operations Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-30 22:10 +0000
                                                        Re: encapsulating directory operations "Paul Edwards" <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2025-06-04 19:23 +1000
                                                          Re: encapsulating directory operations scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-06-04 13:05 +0000
                                                            Re: encapsulating directory operations "Paul Edwards" <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2025-06-05 00:00 +1000
                                                          Re: encapsulating directory operations David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-06-04 17:30 +0200
                                                            Re: encapsulating directory operations Josef Möllers <josef@invalid.invalid> - 2025-06-04 20:48 +0200
                                                              Re: encapsulating directory operations scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-06-04 21:09 +0000
                                                              Re: encapsulating directory operations David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-06-05 08:18 +0200
                                                            Re: encapsulating directory operations "Paul Edwards" <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2025-06-05 04:58 +1000
                                                              Re: encapsulating directory operations Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-06-04 19:19 +0000
                                                                Re: encapsulating directory operations "Paul Edwards" <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2025-06-05 05:24 +1000
                                                                  Re: encapsulating directory operations Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-06-04 21:30 +0000
                                                                    Re: encapsulating directory operations scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-06-04 22:38 +0000
                                                                    Re: encapsulating directory operations "Paul Edwards" <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2025-06-05 19:31 +1000
                                                              Re: encapsulating directory operations David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-06-05 08:32 +0200
                                                                Re: encapsulating directory operations "Paul Edwards" <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2025-06-05 19:28 +1000
                                                                Re: encapsulating directory operations "Paul Edwards" <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2025-06-05 20:25 +1000
                                                                Re: encapsulating directory operations antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-06-06 03:26 +0000
                                                          Re: encapsulating directory operations Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-06-04 23:22 +0000
                                                            Re: encapsulating directory operations scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-06-04 23:48 +0000
                                                    Re: encapsulating directory operations Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2025-06-10 07:18 -0700
                                                  Re: encapsulating directory operations Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-05-29 14:50 -0700
                                                    Re: encapsulating directory operations Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-30 00:05 +0100
                                                      Re: encapsulating directory operations David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-05-30 17:37 +0200
                                                        Re: encapsulating directory operations Richard Harnden <richard.nospam@gmail.invalid> - 2025-05-30 17:25 +0100
                                                          Re: encapsulating directory operations Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-30 17:39 +0100
                                                        Re: encapsulating directory operations Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-30 17:32 +0100
                                                  Re: encapsulating directory operations antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-05-30 02:46 +0000
                                                    Re: encapsulating directory operations Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-05-30 03:42 +0000
                                                  Re: encapsulating directory operations Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-30 07:34 +0000
                                Re: encapsulating directory operations scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-05-23 21:10 +0000
                                  Re: encapsulating directory operations Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-05-23 21:31 +0000
                              Re: encapsulating directory operations Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2025-05-23 22:05 -0700
                                Re: encapsulating directory operations Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-05-24 01:27 -0700
                                  Re: encapsulating directory operations Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2025-06-10 08:52 -0700
                                    Re: encapsulating directory operations Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-06-10 13:35 -0700
                                      Re: encapsulating directory operations Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-06-10 21:34 +0000
                                        Re: encapsulating directory operations Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-06-10 15:09 -0700
                                          Re: encapsulating directory operations Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-06-11 01:16 +0000
                                            Re: encapsulating directory operations Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-06-10 19:11 -0700
                                              Re: encapsulating directory operations Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-06-11 15:23 +0000
                                          Re: encapsulating directory operations "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-06-11 11:57 -0700
                                      Re: encapsulating directory operations Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-06-11 15:32 +0000
                                      Re: encapsulating directory operations Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2026-02-03 04:39 -0800
                        Re: encapsulating directory operations "Paul Edwards" <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2025-05-23 08:44 +1000
                      Re: encapsulating directory operations "Paul Edwards" <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2025-05-23 08:06 +1000
                        Re: encapsulating directory operations Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-05-22 18:24 -0700
                          Re: encapsulating directory operations Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-05-23 02:19 +0000
                    Re: encapsulating directory operations Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-05-21 19:31 +0000
                      Re: encapsulating directory operations "Paul Edwards" <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2025-05-23 07:45 +1000
                  Re: encapsulating directory operations scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-05-21 13:59 +0000
                    Re: encapsulating directory operations "Paul Edwards" <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2025-05-23 07:52 +1000
                      Re: encapsulating directory operations Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-23 01:18 +0000
                        Re: encapsulating directory operations "Paul Edwards" <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2025-05-26 09:48 +1000
                          Re: encapsulating directory operations Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-26 00:15 +0000
                            Re: encapsulating directory operations "Paul Edwards" <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2025-05-26 11:50 +1000
                              Re: encapsulating directory operations Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-29 07:26 +0000
                                Re: encapsulating directory operations "Paul Edwards" <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2025-05-30 18:47 +1000
              Re: encapsulating directory operations Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-05-21 02:21 +0000
                Re: encapsulating directory operations Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-05-20 22:49 -0700
                  Re: encapsulating directory operations "Paul Edwards" <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2025-05-21 20:44 +1000
                    Re: encapsulating directory operations Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-21 12:06 +0100
                    Re: encapsulating directory operations Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-05-21 11:15 -0700
                      Re: encapsulating directory operations scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-05-21 21:02 +0000
                  Re: encapsulating directory operations Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-05-21 19:49 +0000
                Re: encapsulating directory operations "Paul Edwards" <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2025-05-21 19:38 +1000
            Re: encapsulating directory operations James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2025-05-20 22:26 -0400
              Re: encapsulating directory operations Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-21 03:32 +0000
                Re: encapsulating directory operations "Paul Edwards" <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2025-05-21 19:50 +1000
                  Re: encapsulating directory operations Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-22 00:03 +0000
                  Re: encapsulating directory operations Jakob Bohm <egenagwemdimtapsar@jbohm.dk> - 2025-05-22 02:20 +0200
                    Re: encapsulating directory operations Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-22 02:53 +0000
                      Re: encapsulating directory operations Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-05-21 22:14 -0700
                        Re: encapsulating directory operations Jakob Bohm <egenagwemdimtapsar@jbohm.dk> - 2025-08-17 22:34 +0200
            Re: encapsulating directory operations antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-05-21 21:19 +0000
              Re: encapsulating directory operations Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-23 01:17 +0000
    Re: encapsulating directory operations Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-05-21 04:35 +0200
      Re: encapsulating directory operations "Paul Edwards" <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2025-05-21 19:45 +1000
        Re: encapsulating directory operations Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-05-21 17:07 +0200
    Re: encapsulating directory operations Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2025-05-22 20:34 +0200
    Re: encapsulating directory operations Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2025-05-24 22:10 -0700

Page 13 of 18 — ← Prev page 1 … 11 12 [13] 14 15 … 18  Next page →


#393657

From"Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com>
Date2025-05-29 14:31 -0700
Message-ID<101ajmq$2gb1$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#393640
On 5/29/2025 9:36 AM, Richard Heathfield wrote:
> On 29/05/2025 16:08, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>> Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> writes:
>>> On 29/05/2025 11:11, James Kuyper wrote:
>>>> On 5/29/25 05:37, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>>> On Thu, 29 May 2025 09:39:51 +0100, Richard Heathfield wrote:
>>>> ...
>>>>>> Is C90 perfect? No, of course not.
>>>>>
>>>>> Is there some value in that particular state of imperfection? Like the
>>>>> Amish, whose concept of the ideal level of technology is the one 
>>>>> that was
>>>>> in effect at the time they were founded? And who have remained 
>>>>> stuck at
>>>>> that point in time ever since?
>>>>
>>>> That's not actually the case. The Amish have slowly adopted more
>>>> advanced levels of technology as the people around them have adopted
>>>> farm more advanced ones. The important thing, from their point of view,
>>>> it not a particular level of technology, but to maintain a clear
>>>> distinction between them and the non-Amish.
>>>> Which means that they are more adaptable than Richard is.
>>>
>>> They use a lot of C++, do they?
>>
>> They do love power tools.
> 
> :-)
> 
> If you want to take down a tree in a hurry, a chainsaw is just the job, 
> but more delicate work requires more delicate tools.
> 
> More to the point, if you have a million lines of legacy code all 
> written in C90, it's a bloody good idea to keep a C90 compiler around 
> because maintenance.
> 

The Amish, from Family Guy:

https://youtu.be/-wlwtpH1ldM

LOL! They are quite efficient!

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#393656

From"Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com>
Date2025-05-29 14:29 -0700
Message-ID<101ajjj$2gb1$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#393633
On 5/29/2025 5:41 AM, Richard Heathfield wrote:
> On 29/05/2025 11:11, James Kuyper wrote:
>> On 5/29/25 05:37, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>> On Thu, 29 May 2025 09:39:51 +0100, Richard Heathfield wrote:
>> ...
>>>> Is C90 perfect? No, of course not.
>>>
>>> Is there some value in that particular state of imperfection? Like the
>>> Amish, whose concept of the ideal level of technology is the one that 
>>> was
>>> in effect at the time they were founded? And who have remained stuck at
>>> that point in time ever since?
>>
>> That's not actually the case. The Amish have slowly adopted more
>> advanced levels of technology as the people around them have adopted
>> farm more advanced ones. The important thing, from their point of view,
>> it not a particular level of technology, but to maintain a clear
>> distinction between them and the non-Amish.
>> Which means that they are more adaptable than Richard is.
> 
> They use a lot of C++, do they?
> 

ROFL!!!

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#393632

FromRichard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk>
Date2025-05-29 13:38 +0100
Message-ID<1019kgf$3s5co$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#393625
On 29/05/2025 10:37, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
> On Thu, 29 May 2025 09:39:51 +0100, Richard Heathfield wrote:
> 
>> On 29/05/2025 08:27, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>
>>> On Fri, 23 May 2025 23:13:20 +0100, Richard Heathfield wrote:
>>>
>>>> And who cares about future instability if C90 remains just as stable
>>>> as ever it was?
>>>
>>> Even with the problems with const?
>>>
>>>       char *strstr(const char *haystack, const char *needle);
>>>
>>> Dennis Ritchie pointed out the trouble with that.
>>
>> Is C90 perfect? No, of course not.
> 
> Is there some value in that particular state of imperfection?

Yes.

> Like the
> Amish, whose concept of the ideal level of technology is the one that was
> in effect at the time they were founded? And who have remained stuck at
> that point in time ever since?

No, not even remotely like that.

If I want C++, I know where to find it. If I want Python, I know 
where to find it. If I want Rust, I know where to find it.

You can have new tools without breaking the old ones. We didn't 
have to change BCPL to get B, or B to get C, or C to get D or C++.

This really is a very simple point, but perhaps a simple analogy 
will help to clarify it. You don't throw out your 3/4" just 
because you've bought a 19mm. There is room for both in the 
toolbox, and why write 3/4" on your new spanner? It /isn't/ a 
3/4" spanner even though it's very like it, so why pretend otherwise?

-- 
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within

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#393641

FromJames Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu>
Date2025-05-29 12:55 -0400
Message-ID<101a3hd$3upcg$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#393632
On 5/29/25 08:38, Richard Heathfield wrote:
...
> You can have new tools without breaking the old ones. We didn't 
> have to change BCPL to get B, or B to get C, or C to get D or C++.
> 
> This really is a very simple point, but perhaps a simple analogy 
> will help to clarify it. You don't throw out your 3/4" just 
> because you've bought a 19mm. There is room for both in the 
> toolbox, and why write 3/4" on your new spanner? It /isn't/ a 
> 3/4" spanner even though it's very like it, so why pretend otherwise?

That's why C99 is called C99, to distinguish it from C90 (and similarly
for later versions). None of those revisions is large enough to justify
giving the revised language an entirely new name.

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#393644

FromRichard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk>
Date2025-05-29 18:48 +0100
Message-ID<101a6lf$3vta3$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#393641
On 29/05/2025 17:55, James Kuyper wrote:
> On 5/29/25 08:38, Richard Heathfield wrote:
> ...
>> You can have new tools without breaking the old ones. We didn't
>> have to change BCPL to get B, or B to get C, or C to get D or C++.
>>
>> This really is a very simple point, but perhaps a simple analogy
>> will help to clarify it. You don't throw out your 3/4" just
>> because you've bought a 19mm. There is room for both in the
>> toolbox, and why write 3/4" on your new spanner? It /isn't/ a
>> 3/4" spanner even though it's very like it, so why pretend otherwise?
> 
> That's why C99 is called C99, to distinguish it from C90 (and similarly
> for later versions).

Yes, I realise that.

Obviously, we disagree about whether it's enough of a distinction 
to do the job.

-- 
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within

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#393664

FromLawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
Date2025-05-30 03:10 +0000
Message-ID<101b7ic$9rve$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#393632
On Thu, 29 May 2025 13:38:37 +0100, Richard Heathfield wrote:

> This really is a very simple point, but perhaps a simple analogy 
> will help to clarify it. You don't throw out your 3/4" just 
> because you've bought a 19mm. There is room for both in the 
> toolbox, and why write 3/4" on your new spanner? It /isn't/ a 
> 3/4" spanner even though it's very like it, so why pretend otherwise?

Let me clarify your analogy with another analogy: a language compiler is 
just like a spanner. Anything you can say about one, applies equally to 
another. The difference is, old language compilers can get worn, but 
spanners stay bright and new forever.

Also, 19mm spanners are upward-compatible with ¾” ones, aren’t they? Any 
nuts you can handle with the old one, you can deal with using the new one, 
can’t you?

Because argument by analogy works like that.

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#393672

FromDavid Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Date2025-05-30 11:20 +0200
Message-ID<101bt9c$dckn$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#393632
On 29/05/2025 14:38, Richard Heathfield wrote:

> This really is a very simple point, but perhaps a simple analogy will 
> help to clarify it. You don't throw out your 3/4" just because you've 
> bought a 19mm. There is room for both in the toolbox, and why write 3/4" 
> on your new spanner? It /isn't/ a 3/4" spanner even though it's very 
> like it, so why pretend otherwise?
> 

Your analogy does not cover C99 vs C90.

You have a good 3/4" spanner.  You don't throw it out just because you 
also get an adjustable spanner - sometimes the 3/4" spanner is more 
practical, or perhaps a bit stronger.  That's keeping C when you also 
have C++ available.

You have a good 3/4" spanner.  Now you get a new 3/4" spanner that is 
made of stronger steel, has a more comfortable grip, and has a box/ring 
at the other end which the old spanner did not.  You probably won't 
throw out the old spanner, but most of the time you will now use the new 
spanner.  That's C99 vs C90.

Sometimes, of course, we have non-rational reasons for a preference. 
Maybe you just like using the old spanner because you've had it since 
you were a kid and there's an emotional attachment.  Or maybe you don't 
like the shade of grey of the new spanner.  That, of course, is fine - 
when something is good enough for the job, you don't need something 
better and can make the choice for any other personal reason.  It is 
just very difficult for other people to understand such choices.

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#393673

FromRichard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk>
Date2025-05-30 11:54 +0100
Message-ID<101c2p8$eeca$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#393672
On 30/05/2025 10:20, David Brown wrote:
> On 29/05/2025 14:38, Richard Heathfield wrote:
> 
>> This really is a very simple point, but perhaps a simple 
>> analogy will help to clarify it. You don't throw out your 3/4" 
>> just because you've bought a 19mm. There is room for both in 
>> the toolbox, and why write 3/4" on your new spanner? It /isn't/ 
>> a 3/4" spanner even though it's very like it, so why pretend 
>> otherwise?
>>
> 
> Your analogy does not cover C99 vs C90.

It does if we can construct a program that is legal C90 but not 
legal C99, which is easy enough, or (slightly harder but still 
not that hard) a program that is legal in both dialects but which 
gives different output under C99 than it does for C90.

$ cat c9099.c;gcc -W -Wall -ansi -pedantic -o c90 c9099.c;gcc -o 
c99 c9099.c;./c90;./c99
#include <stdio.h>

int main(void)
{
   int a = 42;

   int b = a //* comment */ 6;
   ;
   printf("Soln = %d\n", b);

   return 0;
}
Soln = 7
Soln = 42

Obviously it's a contrived example, but then examples pointing 
out the consequences of language differences invariably are.

-- 
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within

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#393674

FromDavid Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Date2025-05-30 16:02 +0200
Message-ID<101cdpa$gnh8$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#393673
On 30/05/2025 12:54, Richard Heathfield wrote:
> On 30/05/2025 10:20, David Brown wrote:
>> On 29/05/2025 14:38, Richard Heathfield wrote:
>>
>>> This really is a very simple point, but perhaps a simple analogy will 
>>> help to clarify it. You don't throw out your 3/4" just because you've 
>>> bought a 19mm. There is room for both in the toolbox, and why write 
>>> 3/4" on your new spanner? It /isn't/ a 3/4" spanner even though it's 
>>> very like it, so why pretend otherwise?
>>>
>>
>> Your analogy does not cover C99 vs C90.
> 
> It does if we can construct a program that is legal C90 but not legal 
> C99, which is easy enough, or (slightly harder but still not that hard) 
> a program that is legal in both dialects but which gives different 
> output under C99 than it does for C90.
> 
> $ cat c9099.c;gcc -W -Wall -ansi -pedantic -o c90 c9099.c;gcc -o c99 
> c9099.c;./c90;./c99
> #include <stdio.h>
> 
> int main(void)
> {
>    int a = 42;
> 
>    int b = a //* comment */ 6;
>    ;
>    printf("Soln = %d\n", b);
> 
>    return 0;
> }
> Soln = 7
> Soln = 42
> 
> Obviously it's a contrived example, but then examples pointing out the 
> consequences of language differences invariably are.
> 

The analogy there is like complaining you can't use the back end of your 
new spanner to hammer in nails, because it now has a box/ring at the end.


About the only non-pathological circumstances where a C90 program could 
not be compiled as C99 and give the same result is if you happened to 
use the word "restrict" as an identifier.

(And yes, I know there was a minor change in the types of certain 
integer constants, and that it is conceivable that a particularly 
unusual C90 compiler gave different unspecified rounding for negative 
division than on a C99 compiler.)

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#393676

FromRichard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk>
Date2025-05-30 16:26 +0100
Message-ID<101cimc$hqle$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#393674
On 30/05/2025 15:02, David Brown wrote:
> On 30/05/2025 12:54, Richard Heathfield wrote:

<snip>

>> Obviously it's a contrived example, but then examples pointing 
>> out the consequences of language differences invariably are.
>>
> 
> The analogy there is like complaining you can't use the back end 
> of your new spanner to hammer in nails, because it now has a 
> box/ring at the end.

Your argument now appears to be that people wouldn't need C90 if 
only they'd written their C90 in such a way that C99 would have 
met their needs.

This is undoubtedly the case.

-- 
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within

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#393678

FromDavid Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Date2025-05-30 17:42 +0200
Message-ID<101cjl8$i2b3$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#393676
On 30/05/2025 17:26, Richard Heathfield wrote:
> On 30/05/2025 15:02, David Brown wrote:
>> On 30/05/2025 12:54, Richard Heathfield wrote:
> 
> <snip>
> 
>>> Obviously it's a contrived example, but then examples pointing out 
>>> the consequences of language differences invariably are.
>>>
>>
>> The analogy there is like complaining you can't use the back end of 
>> your new spanner to hammer in nails, because it now has a box/ring at 
>> the end.
> 
> Your argument now appears to be that people wouldn't need C90 if only 
> they'd written their C90 in such a way that C99 would have met their needs.
> 

I can't see how you get that from what I wrote.

However, it /is/ the case that most people write / wrote their C90 in 
such a way that C99 meets their needs.  The good folks who gave us C99 
specifically made backwards compatibility a priority (though not an 
absolute).

I'm not sure we are getting anywhere with this thread...

> This is undoubtedly the case.
> 

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#393681

FromRichard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk>
Date2025-05-30 17:39 +0100
Message-ID<101cmv4$ikgf$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#393678
On 30/05/2025 16:42, David Brown wrote:
<snip>
> I can't see how you get that from what I wrote.

Perhaps I've been spending too long in comp.theory

> I'm not sure we are getting anywhere with this thread...

Agreed. I can no longer remember how this sub-thread started, but 
I would guess that it was a wry aside that got bicycle-pumped out 
of proportion.

void main(void)
{
   char *s="Let's call the whole thing";
   printf("%s %s", s, gets(s));
}

-- 
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within

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#393958

FromTim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com>
Date2025-07-01 10:09 -0700
Message-ID<86bjq3q1mw.fsf@linuxsc.com>
In reply to#393673
Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> writes:

> On 30/05/2025 10:20, David Brown wrote:
>
>> On 29/05/2025 14:38, Richard Heathfield wrote:
>>
>>> This really is a very simple point, but perhaps a simple analogy
>>> will help to clarify it.  You don't throw out your 3/4" just
>>> because you've bought a 19mm.  There is room for both in the
>>> toolbox, and why write 3/4" on your new spanner?  It /isn't/ a
>>> 3/4" spanner even though it's very like it, so why pretend
>>> otherwise?
>>
>> Your analogy does not cover C99 vs C90.
>
> It does if we can construct a program that is legal C90 but not
> legal C99, which is easy enough, or (slightly harder but still not
> that hard) a program that is legal in both dialects but which
> gives different output under C99 than it does for C90.
>
> $ cat c9099.c; \
>     gcc -W -Wall -ansi -pedantic -o c90 c9099.c; \
>     gcc -o c99 c9099.c; \
>    ./c90; \
>    ./c99
> #include <stdio.h>
>
> int main(void)
> {
>   int a = 42;
>
>   int b = a //* comment */ 6;
>   ;
>   printf("Soln = %d\n", b);
>
>   return 0;
> }
> Soln = 7
> Soln = 42

It's a straightfoward exercise to write a program that discovers
whether a given .c file has this potential ambiguity.  Of course,
essentially no actual source code will, but the point is the
problem is easy to detect, and also correct.

This observation suggests a related question.  Is there a source
of potential ambiguity between C90 and C99 that is not so easy to
detect and correct?  I can think of one, but it falls into the
realm of depending on implementation-specific behavior, so could
just as easily be seen as a portability issue rather than a
language version issue.

> Obviously it's a contrived example, but then examples pointing out
> the consequences of language differences invariably are.

Some are.  Some are not.  In the case of C90 and C99, probably
all such cases are contrived, but certainly for other language
pairs there are cases that might arise unintentionally, even for
similar languages (notably C and C++).

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#393683

FromKaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com>
Date2025-05-30 18:04 +0000
Message-ID<20250530110328.160@kylheku.com>
In reply to#393672
On 2025-05-30, David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:
> On 29/05/2025 14:38, Richard Heathfield wrote:
>
>> This really is a very simple point, but perhaps a simple analogy will 
>> help to clarify it. You don't throw out your 3/4" just because you've 
>> bought a 19mm. There is room for both in the toolbox, and why write 3/4" 
>> on your new spanner? It /isn't/ a 3/4" spanner even though it's very 
>> like it, so why pretend otherwise?
>> 
>
> Your analogy does not cover C99 vs C90.
>
> You have a good 3/4" spanner.  You don't throw it out just because you 
> also get an adjustable spanner - sometimes the 3/4" spanner is more 
> practical, or perhaps a bit stronger.  That's keeping C when you also 
> have C++ available.

You have a good 3/4" spanner. You also have an adjustable wrench.

They are welded together and and the 3/4" spanner is written
in the language of the adjustable one ...

-- 
TXR Programming Language: http://nongnu.org/txr
Cygnal: Cygwin Native Application Library: http://kylheku.com/cygnal
Mastodon: @Kazinator@mstdn.ca

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#393648

FromDavid Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Date2025-05-29 21:24 +0200
Message-ID<101aca9$me2$3@dont-email.me>
In reply to#393624
On 29/05/2025 10:39, Richard Heathfield wrote:
> On 29/05/2025 08:27, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>> On Fri, 23 May 2025 23:13:20 +0100, Richard Heathfield wrote:
>>
>>> And who cares about future instability if C90 remains just as stable as
>>> ever it was?
>>
>> Even with the problems with const?
>>
>>      char *strstr(const char *haystack, const char *needle);
>>
>> Dennis Ritchie pointed out the trouble with that.
> 
> Is C90 perfect? No, of course not. "C is quirky, flawed, and an enormous 
> success."
> 
> Is there value in having a powerful, widely-available language that, 
> when you turn your back for a moment, stays *exactly* where you left it? 
> Hell, yes.
> 

That's one of the reasons I like C99 and C11, and look forward to C23. 
Once implemented, they don't change either.

I agree with all your are arguments on this, except for one - I can't 
understand why you think C90 is different from later C standards in this 
regard.

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#393649

FromMichael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com>
Date2025-05-29 23:24 +0300
Message-ID<20250529232446.00005ae2@yahoo.com>
In reply to#393648
On Thu, 29 May 2025 21:24:57 +0200
David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:

> On 29/05/2025 10:39, Richard Heathfield wrote:
> > On 29/05/2025 08:27, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:  
> >> On Fri, 23 May 2025 23:13:20 +0100, Richard Heathfield wrote:
> >>  
> >>> And who cares about future instability if C90 remains just as
> >>> stable as ever it was?  
> >>
> >> Even with the problems with const?
> >>
> >>      char *strstr(const char *haystack, const char *needle);
> >>
> >> Dennis Ritchie pointed out the trouble with that.  
> > 
> > Is C90 perfect? No, of course not. "C is quirky, flawed, and an
> > enormous success."
> > 
> > Is there value in having a powerful, widely-available language
> > that, when you turn your back for a moment, stays *exactly* where
> > you left it? Hell, yes.
> >   
> 
> That's one of the reasons I like C99 and C11, and look forward to
> C23. Once implemented, they don't change either.
> 
> I agree with all your are arguments on this, except for one - I can't 
> understand why you think C90 is different from later C standards in
> this regard.
> 

The Great Slow Kings
Roger Zelazny

Drax and Dran sat in the great Throne Hall of  Glan,  discussing  life.
Monarchs  by  virtue  of  superior intellect and physique--and the fact
that they were the last two survivors of the race of Glan--theirs was
a  divided rule over the planet and their one subject, Zindrome, the
palace robot.

Drax had been musing for the past four centuries (theirs was a sluggish
sort) over the possibility of life on other planets in the galaxy.

Accordingly, "Dran," said  he, addressing the other (who was becoming
mildly curious as to his thoughts), "Dran, I've been thinking. There
may  be life on other planets in the galaxy."

Dran considered  his  response  to  this, as the world wheeled several
times about its sun.

"True," he finally agreed, "there may."

After several months Drax shot back, "If there is, we ought  to find
out."

"Why?"  asked  Dran  with  equal  promptness, which caused the other to
suspect that he, too, had been thinking along these lines.

So he measured his next statement out cautiously, first testing each
word within the plated retort of his reptilian skull.

"Our kingdom is rather underpopulated at present," he observed. "It
would be good to have many subjects once more."

Dran regarded him askance, then slowly turned his head. He closed one
eye and half-closed the other, taking full stock of his co-ruler, whose
appearance, as he had suspected, was unchanged since the last time he
had looked.

"That, also, is true," he noted. "What do you suggest we do?"

This time Drax turned, reappraising him, eye to eye.

I think we ought to find out if there is life on other planets in the
galaxy."

"Hmm."

Two quick rounds of the seasons went unnoticed, then, "Let me think
about it," he said, and turned away.

After what he deemed a polite period of time, Drax coughed.

"Have you thought sufficiently?"

"No."

Drax struggled to focus his eyes on the near-subliminal streak of
bluish light which traversed, re-traversed and re-re-traversed the Hall
as he waited.

"Zindrome!" he finally called out.

The robot slowed his movements to a statue-like immobility to
accommodate his master. A feather duster protruded from his right limb.

"You called, great Lord of Glan?"

"Yes, Zindrome, worthy subject. Those old spaceships which we
constructed in happier days, and never got around to using. Are any of
them still capable of operation?"

"I'll check, great Lord."

He seemed to change position slightly.

"There are three hundred eighty-two," he announced, "of which four are
in functioning condition, great Lord. I've checked all the operating
circuits."

"Drax," warned Dran, "you are arrogating unauthorized powers to
yourself once more. You should have conferred with me before issuing
that order."

"I apologize," stated the other. "I simply wanted to expedite matters,
should your decision be that we conduct a survey."

"You have anticipated my decision correctly," nodded Dran, "but your
eagerness seems to bespeak a hidden purpose."

"No purpose but the good of the realm," smiled the other.

"That may be, but the last time you spoke of 'the good of the realm'
the civil strife which ensued cost us our other robot."

"I have learned my lesson and profited thereby. I shall be more
judicious in the future."

"I hope so. Now, about this investigation--which part of the galaxy do
you intend to investigate first?"

A tension-filled pause ensued.

"I had assumed," murmured Drax, "that you would conduct the expedition.
Being the more mature monarch, yours should be a more adequate decision
as to whether or not a particular species is worthy of our enlightened
rule."

"Yes, but your youth tends to make you more active than I. The journey
should be more expeditiously conducted by you." He emphasized the word
"expeditiously."

"We could both go, in separate ships," offered Drax. "That would be
truly expeditious--"

Their heated debating was cut short by a metallic cough-equivalent.

"Masters," suggested Zindrome, "the half-life of radioactive materials
being as ephemeral as it is, I regret to report that only one spaceship
is now in operational condition."

"That settles it, Dran. _You_ go. It will require a steadier _rrand_ to
manage an underpowered ship."

"And leave you to foment civil strife and usurp unfranchised powers?
No, you go!"

"I suppose we could _both_ go," sighed Drax.

"Fine! Leave the kingdom leaderless! _That_ is the kind of muddleheaded
thinking which brought about our present political embarrassment."

"Masters," said Zindrome, "if _someone_ doesn't go soon the ship will
be useless."

They both studied their servant, approving the rapid chain of logic
forged by his simple statement.

"Very well," they smiled in unison, "_you_ go."

Zindrome bowed quite obsequiously and departed from the great Throne
Hall of Glan.

"Perhaps we should authorize Zindrome to construct facsimiles of
himself," stated Dran, tentatively. "If we had more subjects we could
accomplish more."

"Are you forgetting our most recent agreement?" asked Drax. "A
superfluity of robots tended to stimulate factionalism last time--and
certain people grew ambitious..." He let his voice trail off over the
years, for emphasis.

"I am not certain as to whether your last allusion contains a hidden
accusation," began the other carefully. "If so, permit me to caution
you concerning rashness--and to remind you who it was who engineered
the Mono-Robot Protection Pact."

"Do you believe things will be different in the case of a multitude of
organic subjects?" inquired the other.

"Definitely," said Dran. "There is a certain irrational element in the
rationale of the organic being, making it less amenable to direct
orders than a machine would be. Our robots, at least, were faithful
when we ordered them to destroy each other. Irresponsible organic
subjects either do it without being told, which is boorish, or refuse
to do it when you order them, which is insubordination."

"True," smiled Drax, unearthing a gem he had preserved for millennia
against this occasion. "Concerning organic life the only statement
which can be made with certainty is that life is uncertain."

"Hmm." Dran narrowed his eyes to slits. "Let me ponder that for a
moment. Like much of your thinking it seems to smack of a concealed
sophistry."

"It contains none, I assure you. It is the fruit of much meditation."

"Hmm."

Dran's pondering was cut short, by the arrival of Zindrome who clutched
two brownish blurs beneath his metal arms.

"Back already, Zindrome? What have you there? Slow the down so we can
see them."

"They are under sedation at present, great Masters. It is the movements
caused by their breathing which produce the unpleasant vibration
pattern on your retinas. To subject them to more narcosis could prove
deleterious."

"Nevertheless," maintained Dran, "we must appraise our new subjects
carefully, which requires that we see them. Slow them down some more."

"You gave that order without-" began Drax, but was distracted by the
sudden appearance of the two hairy bipeds.

"Warm-blooded?" he asked.

"Yes, Lord."

"That bespeaks a very brief life-span."

"True," offered Dran, "but that kind tends to reproduce quite rapidly."

"That observation tends to be correct," nodded Drax. "Tell me,
Zindrome, do they represent the sexes necessary for reproduction?"

"Yes, Master. There are two sexes among these anthropoids, so I brought
one of each."

"That was very wise. Where did you find them?"

"Several billion light years from here."

"Turn those two loose outside and go fetch us some more."

The creatures vanished. Zindrome appeared not to have moved.

"Have you the fuel necessary for another such journey?"

"Yes, my Lord. More of it has evolved recently."

"Excellent."

The robot departed.

"What sort of governmental setup should be inaugurate this time?" asked
Drax.

"Set us review the arguments for the various types."

"A good idea."

In the midst of their discussion Zindrome returned and stood waiting to
be recognized.

"What is it, Zindrome? Did you forget something?"

"No, great Lords. When I returned to the world from which I obtained
the samples I discovered that the race had progressed to the point
where it developed fission processes, engaged in an atomic war and
annihilated itself."

"That was extremely inconsiderate--typical, however, I should say, of
warm-blooded instability."

Zindrome continued to shift.

"Have you something else to report?"

"Yes, great Masters. The two specimens I released have multiplied and
are now spread over the entire planet of Glan."

"We should have been advised!"

"Yes, great Lords, but I was absent and--"

"They themselves should have reported this action!"

"Masters, I am afraid they are unaware of your existence."

"How could that have happened?" asked Dran.

"We are presently buried beneath several thousand layers of alluvial
rock. The geological shifts--"

"You have your orders to maintain the place and clean the grounds,"
glowered Dran. "Have you been frittering away your time again?"

"No, great Lords! It all occurred during my absence. I shall attend to
it immediately."

"First," ordered Drax, "tell us what else our subjects have been up to,
that they saw fit to conceal from us."

"Recently," observed the robot, "they have discovered how to forge and
temper metals. Upon landing, I observed that they had developed many
ingenious instruments of a cutting variety. Unfortunately they were
using them to cut one another."

"Do you mean," roared Dran, "that there is strife in the kingdom?"

"Uh, yes, my Lord."

"I will not brook unauthorized violence among my subjects!"

"_Our_ subjects," added Drax, with a meaningful glare.

"_Our_ subjects," amended Dran. "We must take immediate action."

"Agreed."

"Agreed."

"I shall issue orders forbidding their engagement in activities leading
to bloodshed."

"I presume that you mean a joint proclamation," stated Drax.

"Of course. I was not slighting you, I was simply shaken by the civil
emergency. We shall draft an official proclamation. Let Zindrome fetch
us writing instruments."

"Zindrome, fetch--"

"I have them here, my Lords."

"Now, let me see. How shall we phrase it...?"

"Perhaps I should clean the palace while your Excellencies--"

"No! Wait right here! This will be very brief and to the point."

"Mm. 'We hereby proclaim...'"

"Don't forget our titles."

"True. 'We, the imperial monarchs of Glan, herebeneath undersigned, do
hereby...'"

A feeble pulse of gamma rays passed unnoticed by the two rulers. The
faithful Zindrome diagnosed its nature, however, and tried
unsuccessfully to obtain the monarchs' attention. Finally, he dismissed
the project with a stoical gesture typical of his kind. He waited.


There!" they agreed flourishing the document. "Now you can tell us what
you have been trying to say, Zindrome. But make it brief, you just
deliver this soon."

"It  is already too late, great Lords. This race, also, progressed into
civilized states, developed nuclear energy and eradicated itself  while
 you were writing."

"Barbarous!"

"Warm-blooded irresponsibility!"

"May I go clean up now, great Masters?"

"Soon, Zindrome, soon. First, though, I move that we file the
proclamation in the Archives for future use, in the event of similar
occurrences."

Dran nodded.

"I agree. _We_ so order."

The robot accepted the crumbling proclamation and vanished from sight.

"You know," Drax mused, "there must be lots of radioactive material
lying about now..."

"There probably is."

"It could be used to fuel a ship for another expedition."

"Perhaps."

"This time we could instruct Zindrome to bring back something with a
longer lifespan and more deliberate habits--somewhat nearer our own."

"That would have its dangers. But perhaps we could junk the Mono-Robot
Protection Pact and order Zindrome to manufacture extras of himself.
Under strict supervision."

"That would have its dangers too."

"At any rate, I should have to ponder your suggestion carefully."

"And I yours."

"It's been a busy day," nodded Dran. "Let's sleep on it."

"A good idea."

Sounds of saurian snoring emerged from the great Throne Hall of Glan.


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#393650

FromRichard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk>
Date2025-05-29 21:27 +0100
Message-ID<101afvt$1sm1$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#393648
On 29/05/2025 20:24, David Brown wrote:
> On 29/05/2025 10:39, Richard Heathfield wrote:
>> On 29/05/2025 08:27, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>> On Fri, 23 May 2025 23:13:20 +0100, Richard Heathfield wrote:
>>>
>>>> And who cares about future instability if C90 remains just as 
>>>> stable as
>>>> ever it was?
>>>
>>> Even with the problems with const?
>>>
>>>      char *strstr(const char *haystack, const char *needle);
>>>
>>> Dennis Ritchie pointed out the trouble with that.
>>
>> Is C90 perfect? No, of course not. "C is quirky, flawed, and an 
>> enormous success."
>>
>> Is there value in having a powerful, widely-available language 
>> that, when you turn your back for a moment, stays *exactly* 
>> where you left it? Hell, yes.
>>
> 
> That's one of the reasons I like C99 and C11, and look forward to 
> C23. Once implemented, they don't change either.
> 
> I agree with all your are arguments on this,

So far so good. :-)

> except for one - I 
> can't understand why you think C90 is different from later C 
> standards in this regard.


I realise that my reply is going to sound glib, but I can't help 
that.

I *don't* think C90 is different. I think C90 is exactly the 
same. It's the later standards that are different. Different from 
C90.

-- 
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within

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#393651

FromKeith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com>
Date2025-05-29 13:45 -0700
Message-ID<871ps7f8o3.fsf@nosuchdomain.example.com>
In reply to#393650
Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> writes:
> On 29/05/2025 20:24, David Brown wrote:
[...]
>> That's one of the reasons I like C99 and C11, and look forward to
>> C23. Once implemented, they don't change either.
>> I agree with all your are arguments on this,
>
> So far so good. :-)
>
>> except for one - I can't understand why you think C90 is different
>> from later C standards in this regard.
>
> I realise that my reply is going to sound glib, but I can't help that.
>
> I *don't* think C90 is different. I think C90 is exactly the
> same. It's the later standards that are different. Different from C90.

I'd like to understand the point you're trying to make.

Being different is a transitive relationship.  C90 is different
"from later C standards".  You say that C90 is "exactly the same"
-- as what?  As itself?  C99 is also exactly the same as itself.

If the difference is that you personally like C90 and dislike C99
and later editions, that's fine.  De gustibus non est disputandem
(never argue with a guy named Gus).

-- 
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com
void Void(void) { Void(); } /* The recursive call of the void */

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#393653

FromRichard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk>
Date2025-05-29 22:09 +0100
Message-ID<101aif2$1sm2$3@dont-email.me>
In reply to#393651
On 29/05/2025 21:45, Keith Thompson wrote:
> Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> writes:
>> On 29/05/2025 20:24, David Brown wrote:
> [...]
>>> That's one of the reasons I like C99 and C11, and look forward to
>>> C23. Once implemented, they don't change either.
>>> I agree with all your are arguments on this,
>>
>> So far so good. :-)
>>
>>> except for one - I can't understand why you think C90 is different
>>> from later C standards in this regard.
>>
>> I realise that my reply is going to sound glib, but I can't help that.
>>
>> I *don't* think C90 is different. I think C90 is exactly the
>> same. It's the later standards that are different. Different from C90.
> 
> I'd like to understand the point you're trying to make.

I'll do what I can to help out; I'm really not trying to be obscure.

> Being different is a transitive relationship.  C90 is different
> "from later C standards".  You say that C90 is "exactly the same"
> -- as what?  As itself?

Yes. And nothing else has that quality of being C90.

> C99 is also exactly the same as itself.

Yes, but it's different from C99.

> If the difference is that you personally like C90 and dislike C99
> and later editions, that's fine.  De gustibus non est disputandem
> (never argue with a guy named Gus).

Look, Gus, if that's what you want to call yourself...well, okay, 
I can't in all honesty deny that de gustibus is part of it, but 
it's more to do with bit rot.

Software houses need C90 for the same reason the government needs 
IBM 1311s (unless they've finished migrating off them now), 
cassette players, WW2 crypto keys, and the boot passwords for 
those early 1990s PCs lurking in the cellar.

I shudder to think how much C90 code is out there, but it has to 
be /at least/ in the region of 10^9 LOC, much of it in the 
military arena, medical applications, and particularly the world 
of comms. Letting C90 compilers fall off the radar (e.g. by 
society forgetting how to program in it) really could be a 
stupendously bad idea, for all the reasons that people overlook 
when they shrug and say `I expect it'll all turn out fine'.

-- 
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within

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#393655

Fromscott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
Date2025-05-29 21:19 +0000
Message-ID<Qb4_P.377135$vvyf.313049@fx18.iad>
In reply to#393653
Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> writes:
>On 29/05/2025 21:45, Keith Thompson wrote:
>> Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> writes:
>>> On 29/05/2025 20:24, David Brown wrote:
>> [...]
>>>> That's one of the reasons I like C99 and C11, and look forward to
>>>> C23. Once implemented, they don't change either.
>>>> I agree with all your are arguments on this,
>>>
>>> So far so good. :-)
>>>
>>>> except for one - I can't understand why you think C90 is different
>>>> from later C standards in this regard.
>>>
>>> I realise that my reply is going to sound glib, but I can't help that.
>>>
>>> I *don't* think C90 is different. I think C90 is exactly the
>>> same. It's the later standards that are different. Different from C90.
>> 
>> I'd like to understand the point you're trying to make.
>
>I'll do what I can to help out; I'm really not trying to be obscure.
>
>> Being different is a transitive relationship.  C90 is different
>> "from later C standards".  You say that C90 is "exactly the same"
>> -- as what?  As itself?
>
>Yes. And nothing else has that quality of being C90.
>
>> C99 is also exactly the same as itself.
>
>Yes, but it's different from C99.
>
>> If the difference is that you personally like C90 and dislike C99
>> and later editions, that's fine.  De gustibus non est disputandem
>> (never argue with a guy named Gus).
>
>Look, Gus, if that's what you want to call yourself...well, okay, 
>I can't in all honesty deny that de gustibus is part of it, but 
>it's more to do with bit rot.
>
>Software houses need C90 for the same reason the government needs 
>IBM 1311s (unless they've finished migrating off them now), 
>cassette players, WW2 crypto keys, and the boot passwords for 
>those early 1990s PCs lurking in the cellar.
>
>I shudder to think how much C90 code is out there, but it has to 
>be /at least/ in the region of 10^9 LOC, much of it in the 
>military arena, medical applications, and particularly the world 
>of comms. Letting C90 compilers fall off the radar (e.g. by 
>society forgetting how to program in it) really could be a 
>stupendously bad idea, for all the reasons that people overlook 
>when they shrug and say `I expect it'll all turn out fine'.

And all the existing C compilers in the entire planet support
the C90 dialect[*], if so instructed.   Where is the problem?

[*] Well, except perhap Bart's and various hobby compilers.

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