Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]


Groups > comp.lang.c > #391822 > unrolled thread

"A diagram of C23 basic types"

Started byAlexis <flexibeast@gmail.com>
First post2025-04-02 16:59 +1100
Last post2025-04-11 13:51 -0700
Articles 20 on this page of 458 — 25 participants

Back to article view | Back to comp.lang.c


Contents

  "A diagram of C23 basic types" Alexis <flexibeast@gmail.com> - 2025-04-02 16:59 +1100
    Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-02 06:02 +0000
      Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-04-03 01:20 -0500
        Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-03 20:35 +0000
          Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-04-04 04:27 -0500
    Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-02 09:02 +0200
      Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-04-02 07:32 +0000
        Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-03 05:43 +0200
          Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-04-03 09:38 +0200
            Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-03 10:15 +0200
              Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-04-03 04:17 -0500
          Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-04-03 03:28 -0500
      Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-04-02 11:33 +0200
      Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2025-04-02 20:53 -0700
    Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-04-02 10:57 +0100
      Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Muttley@DastardlyHQ.org - 2025-04-02 10:14 +0000
        Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-04-02 15:35 +0200
          Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Muttley@DastardlyHQ.org - 2025-04-02 14:05 +0000
            Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2025-04-02 11:12 -0300
              Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Muttley@DastardlyHQ.org - 2025-04-02 15:12 +0000
                Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-04-02 16:33 +0100
                  Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2025-04-02 15:51 +0000
                    Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-04-02 16:20 +0000
                      Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-02 23:31 +0200
                        Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-04-02 23:32 +0000
                          Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-03 03:02 +0200
                            Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-04-03 13:42 +0000
                              Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-03 19:32 +0200
                        Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-04-03 09:49 +0200
                          Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-04-03 13:21 -0500
                      Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-04-03 01:10 +0100
                        Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-04-03 05:09 +0000
                          Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-04-02 23:12 -0700
                            Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-04-03 01:28 -0500
                              Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-04-03 19:37 +0000
                                Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-04-03 21:48 +0100
                                  Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-04 02:57 +0000
                                    Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-04-09 12:49 +0300
                                      Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-04-09 15:01 +0200
                                        Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-04-09 12:26 -0500
                                          Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-04-09 20:11 +0100
                                            Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-04-10 09:53 +0200
                                              Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-04-10 11:37 +0300
                                                Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-12 05:43 +0000
                                                  Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2025-04-12 10:10 -0400
                                                  Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-04-12 17:21 +0200
                                                    Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-04-12 14:27 -0500
                                              Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Muttley@DastardlyHQ.org - 2025-04-10 10:07 +0000
                                                Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-04-10 12:08 +0100
                                                  Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Muttley@DastardlyHQ.org - 2025-04-10 12:48 +0000
                                                  Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-12 05:44 +0000
                                              Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-04-10 12:42 +0100
                                                Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-04-10 15:06 +0200
                                                  Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-04-10 15:29 +0100
                                                    Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-04-10 16:55 +0200
                                                      C implementation headers [was Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types"] scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-04-10 15:17 +0000
                                              Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-04-10 13:47 -0500
                                        Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-04-09 14:56 -0700
                                          Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-12 05:42 +0000
                                            Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-04-12 13:46 -0700
                                      Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2025-04-09 13:14 -0700
                                        Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-04-09 15:01 -0700
                                          Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2025-04-14 02:10 -0700
                                            Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-04-14 04:08 -0700
                                              Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2026-02-02 09:34 -0800
                                                Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-02-02 16:15 -0800
                                        Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-04-10 11:42 +0300
                                          Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2025-04-14 01:59 -0700
                                            Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-04-14 12:44 +0300
                                              Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2025-05-05 16:25 -0700
                                                Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-05-06 11:26 +0300
                                                  Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2025-05-08 06:08 -0700
                                      Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-04-09 20:38 +0000
                                  Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-04-04 03:05 +0000
                                    Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-04-03 21:06 -0700
                                      Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-04-04 12:39 +0000
                                    Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-08 02:36 +0000
                                Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-04-03 14:30 -0700
                                  Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-04-03 23:32 +0000
                                Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-04-04 14:07 +0300
                            Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-04 02:55 +0000
                          Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Muttley@DastardlyHQ.org - 2025-04-03 08:55 +0000
                          Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-04-03 13:43 +0000
                            Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-04-03 11:45 -0700
                        Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-04-03 09:57 +0200
                        Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-04 02:54 +0000
                      Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Muttley@DastardlyHQ.org - 2025-04-03 08:46 +0000
                        Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-04-03 14:14 +0000
                          Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Muttley@DastardlyHQ.org - 2025-04-04 09:42 +0000
                            Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-04-04 13:42 +0000
                              Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Muttley@DastardlyHQ.org - 2025-04-04 14:10 +0000
                                Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-04-04 14:27 +0000
                  Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-04 03:01 +0000
                    Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-04-03 21:05 -0700
                    Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2025-04-07 17:30 +0000
                      Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-07 21:49 +0200
                        Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2025-04-08 18:40 +0000
                        Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-14 04:33 +0000
                          Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2025-04-14 17:40 +0000
                            Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-04-14 17:46 +0000
                              Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-15 09:41 +0200
                            Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-04-14 13:36 -0500
                              Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-04-14 15:15 -0700
                              Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-14 22:33 +0000
                                Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-04-14 15:56 -0700
                                  Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-14 23:41 +0000
                                    Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-04-14 17:57 -0700
                                    Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2025-04-14 23:25 -0400
                                      Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-15 04:11 +0000
                                        Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2025-04-15 10:06 -0400
                                          Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-04-15 15:56 -0700
                                            Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-04-15 17:04 -0700
                                            Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2025-04-15 20:53 -0400
                                              Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-04-17 17:56 +0200
                                                Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-19 09:46 +0200
                                                  Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-04-19 17:15 +0200
                                                    Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-04-19 23:15 +0300
                                                      Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-04-21 20:34 +0200
                                                        Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-04-21 14:28 -0700
                                                          Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-04-22 01:07 +0300
                                                            Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2025-04-22 19:30 +0000
                                                            Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2025-05-05 16:40 -0700
                                                        Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-04-22 00:28 +0300
                                          Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-15 22:58 +0000
                                            Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2025-04-15 21:02 -0400
                                              Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-16 07:42 +0000
                                      Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-04-15 00:00 -0500
                                        Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-04-15 14:08 +0000
                                          Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-04-15 12:29 -0500
                                            Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2025-04-15 18:57 -0400
                                            Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-15 23:01 +0000
                                              Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-04-15 17:10 -0700
                                                Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-04-16 02:11 +0000
                                        Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-15 23:00 +0000
                                  Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-04-14 18:46 -0700
                                    Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-15 04:14 +0000
                                    Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2025-04-15 10:19 -0400
                                      Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-04-15 14:28 +0000
                                      Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-04-15 12:17 -0700
                                        Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-04-15 16:20 -0700
                                        Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-17 03:03 +0000
                                          Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-04-16 22:34 -0700
                                          Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-04-16 22:38 -0700
                                      Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-15 23:10 +0000
                                  Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" dave_thompson_2@comcast.net - 2025-07-29 10:49 -0400
                                    Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2025-07-29 21:18 -0400
                                Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-04-14 19:43 -0500
                                  Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-15 04:15 +0000
                                    Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-04-15 00:40 -0500
                                      Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-04-15 19:22 +0200
                                        Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-04-15 12:54 -0500
                                          Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-04-15 19:10 +0000
                                            Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-04-15 19:54 -0500
                                          Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-04-18 20:03 +0200
                                      Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-15 22:56 +0000
                                        Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-04-15 23:48 -0500
                                          Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-16 07:41 +0000
                                          Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-04-18 20:10 +0200
                                  Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-04-15 14:10 +0000
                                    Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-04-15 13:00 -0500
                                      Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-04-15 16:42 -0700
                                        Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2025-04-16 14:00 +0000
                                          Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-04-16 12:48 -0700
                                            Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-04-16 20:04 +0000
                                              Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-04-16 16:10 -0500
                                                Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-04-16 23:13 +0100
                                                  Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-04-16 16:31 -0700
                                                    Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-04-17 01:05 +0100
                                                      Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-04-17 01:26 +0000
                                                  Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-17 23:18 +0000
                                                    Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-04-28 07:52 +0100
                                                      Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-30 23:57 +0000
                                                        Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-01 06:17 +0100
                                                Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-04-16 16:11 -0700
                                                Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-17 23:16 +0000
                                              Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-29 02:10 +0200
                                                Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-04-28 19:20 -0700
                                                  Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-29 08:37 +0200
                                                  Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-04-29 13:14 +0000
                                                Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2025-04-28 23:34 -0400
                                                  Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-29 08:44 +0200
                                                  Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-30 23:58 +0000
                                                    Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-04-30 17:15 -0700
                                                Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2025-04-29 05:10 +0000
                                                  Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2025-04-29 01:24 -0400
                                                    Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-04-29 13:02 -0500
                                                      Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-04-29 19:25 +0100
                                                      Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-04-29 19:00 +0000
                      Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-08 02:27 +0000
                    Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-04-07 19:02 +0100
                      Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-04-07 21:12 +0300
                        Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-04-07 19:18 +0100
                          Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" G <g@nowhere.invalid> - 2025-04-07 18:41 +0000
                          Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-07 22:14 +0200
                            Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-04-07 23:49 +0300
                              Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-07 23:18 +0200
                                Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2025-04-07 22:37 -0400
                            Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-04-07 22:46 +0100
                              Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-04-07 23:57 +0100
                                Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-04-07 16:01 -0700
                                  Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-04-08 11:45 +0300
                                  Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-04-08 11:37 +0100
                              Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-04-08 10:25 +0200
                              Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-18 02:39 +0000
                                Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-04-18 12:49 +0100
                                  Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-19 00:16 +0000
                        Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-04-07 20:29 +0100
                          Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-07 22:30 +0200
                            Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-04-07 22:26 +0100
                          Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-04-08 10:29 +0200
                            Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Muttley@DastardlyHQ.org - 2025-04-08 10:54 +0000
                              Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-04-08 14:20 +0300
                                Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2025-04-08 14:25 -0400
                                  Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-04-08 21:29 +0300
                              Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-04-08 13:39 +0200
                                Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-04-08 13:00 +0100
                                  Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-04-08 16:55 +0200
                                Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-08 19:25 +0200
                                  Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2025-04-08 14:32 -0400
                                Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-04-08 20:53 +0300
                                  Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-04-08 22:30 +0300
                                  Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Muttley@DastardlyHQ.org - 2025-04-09 09:01 +0000
                                    Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-04-09 12:23 +0300
                                      Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Muttley@DastardlyHQ.org - 2025-04-09 10:08 +0000
                                        Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-04-09 13:32 +0300
                                          Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Muttley@DastardlyHQ.org - 2025-04-09 11:00 +0000
                                            Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-09 13:04 +0200
                                              Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-04-09 15:24 +0200
                                    Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-09 12:35 +0200
                                      Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Muttley@DastardlyHQ.org - 2025-04-09 11:02 +0000
                                        Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-04-09 14:33 +0300
                                      Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-04-09 15:09 -0700
                                    Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-01 00:01 +0000
                                  Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-04-09 15:16 +0200
                                    Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-04-09 16:56 +0300
                                      Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-04-09 18:19 +0200
                                        Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Richard Harnden <richard.nospam@gmail.invalid> - 2025-04-09 18:32 +0100
                                        Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-04-09 15:09 -0700
                                      Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2025-04-09 13:17 -0700
                                Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2025-04-08 14:34 -0400
                                  Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Muttley@DastardlyHQ.org - 2025-04-09 09:00 +0000
                        Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-08 02:29 +0000
                Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-04-02 16:18 +0000
                Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-04 02:53 +0000
            Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-04-02 17:28 +0300
              Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Muttley@DastardlyHQ.org - 2025-04-02 15:17 +0000
            Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-04-02 16:59 +0200
              Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Muttley@DastardlyHQ.org - 2025-04-02 15:26 +0000
                Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-04-02 16:38 +0100
                  Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2025-04-02 15:53 +0000
                  Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-04-02 19:29 +0200
                    Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-04-02 19:26 +0100
                      Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-04-02 18:48 +0000
                        Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-04-02 17:41 -0700
                          Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-04-03 10:16 +0200
                            Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-04-03 03:27 -0700
                              Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-04-03 15:23 +0200
                            Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-04-03 13:48 +0000
                        Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2025-04-02 21:00 -0700
                          Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-04-03 13:51 +0000
                            Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-04-03 11:47 -0700
                              Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-04-03 18:54 +0000
                                Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-04-03 12:37 -0700
                                Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2025-04-04 03:27 -0700
                            Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2025-04-04 03:14 -0700
                      Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-04-02 18:51 +0000
                        Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2025-04-02 21:06 -0700
                          Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-04-03 05:11 -0500
                            Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2025-04-03 09:23 -0700
                          Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-03 23:19 +0200
                            Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2025-04-14 05:46 -0700
                          Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-04-03 22:00 +0000
                            Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-04-06 19:33 -0700
                              Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-04-07 04:09 +0000
                                Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2025-04-30 08:12 -0700
                              Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-04-07 18:31 +0000
                                Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-04-07 18:55 +0000
                                Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-04-07 14:19 -0700
                                Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2025-04-30 09:45 -0700
                                  Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-04-30 17:41 +0000
                                    Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2025-05-08 05:59 -0700
                                      Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-05-08 13:42 +0000
                                        Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2025-05-08 08:33 -0700
                            Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2025-04-07 14:35 -0400
                              Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-04-08 10:39 +0200
                                Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2025-04-08 14:14 -0400
                                  Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-04-09 15:29 +0200
                            Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2025-04-30 08:37 -0700
                        Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-04-03 10:23 +0200
                      Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-04-03 10:04 +0200
                  Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-04-02 23:24 +0300
                    Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-04-03 10:59 +0200
                      Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-04-03 13:49 +0100
                        Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-04-03 15:40 +0200
                          Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2025-04-03 11:11 -0300
                            Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-04-03 16:49 +0200
                        Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-04-03 16:44 +0300
                          Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-04-03 16:58 +0200
                            Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-03 23:39 +0200
                              Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-04-04 12:52 +0200
                              Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2025-04-07 06:46 -0700
                          Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-04-03 15:59 +0100
                            Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-04-03 15:26 +0000
                              Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-04-03 16:52 +0100
                                Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-04-04 13:31 +0200
                        Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-04-03 11:31 -0700
                          Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-04-03 20:51 +0200
                            Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-04-03 12:29 -0700
                              Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2025-04-14 01:46 -0700
                      Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-04-03 11:19 -0700
                        Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-04-03 20:54 +0200
                Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-04-02 16:16 +0000
                  Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Muttley@DastardlyHQ.org - 2025-04-03 08:45 +0000
                    Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-04-03 11:41 +0200
                      Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Muttley@DastardlyHQ.org - 2025-04-03 11:07 +0000
                        Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-04-03 15:58 +0200
                          Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Muttley@DastardlyHQ.org - 2025-04-04 09:40 +0000
                            Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-04-04 13:39 +0200
                              Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Muttley@DastardlyHQ.org - 2025-04-04 14:10 +0000
                                Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-04-04 17:12 +0200
                                  Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2025-04-04 16:11 +0000
                                    Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-04-04 12:52 -0700
                        Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-04 04:43 +0200
                          Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-04-04 15:34 +0200
                      Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-04-03 14:45 +0300
                        Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-04-03 16:03 +0200
                Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-04-02 19:23 +0200
                  Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-04-02 18:04 +0000
                  Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Muttley@DastardlyHQ.org - 2025-04-03 08:49 +0000
                    Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-04-03 15:16 +0200
                      Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Muttley@DastardlyHQ.org - 2025-04-03 13:22 +0000
              Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-02 23:43 +0200
                Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-04-03 11:03 +0200
                  Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-04 04:50 +0200
                    Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-04-04 15:38 +0200
                      Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-04-04 15:14 +0100
                        Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-04-04 17:26 +0200
          Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-04-02 18:02 +0000
            Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2025-04-03 00:35 -0400
              Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-04-03 06:21 +0000
              Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-04-03 13:53 +0000
        Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-04-02 14:12 +0000
          Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Muttley@DastardlyHQ.org - 2025-04-02 15:16 +0000
            Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-04-02 13:09 -0700
              Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Muttley@DastardlyHQ.org - 2025-04-03 08:51 +0000
                Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Opus <ifonly@youknew.org> - 2025-04-03 15:05 +0200
                  Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Muttley@DastardlyHQ.org - 2025-04-03 13:19 +0000
                  Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-04-03 16:27 +0300
                    Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Opus <ifonly@youknew.org> - 2025-04-03 21:13 +0200
                    Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2025-04-06 03:31 -0700
                  Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-04-03 11:15 -0700
              Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-04-03 16:01 -0700
                Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Muttley@DastardlyHQ.org - 2025-04-04 09:43 +0000
                  Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-04-04 03:25 -0700
                    Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Muttley@DastardlyHQ.org - 2025-04-04 10:28 +0000
                      Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-04-04 03:31 -0700
                      Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-04-04 15:46 +0200
                        Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Muttley@DastardlyHQ.org - 2025-04-04 14:02 +0000
                          Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-04-04 17:28 +0200
                            Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2025-04-04 16:12 +0000
                              Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-04-04 19:25 +0200
                        Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-04-04 12:18 -0700
                          Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-04-05 17:34 +0200
                            Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-04-05 17:10 -0500
            Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-04-04 18:49 +0000
            Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2025-04-04 21:08 -0400
              Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-04-04 19:15 -0700
                Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-04-05 17:36 +0200
              Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-08 02:39 +0000
                Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2025-04-07 23:26 -0400
      Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Philipp Klaus Krause <pkk@spth.de> - 2025-04-05 19:56 +0200
        Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-04-08 14:32 +0100
          Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-04-08 16:57 +0200
            Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-04-08 16:47 +0100
              Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-04-08 16:08 +0000
                Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2025-04-08 11:05 -0700
              Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-04-09 11:20 +0300
                Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-04-09 11:32 +0100
              Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Ike Naar <ike@sdf.org> - 2025-04-09 08:53 +0000
          Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-04-08 14:46 -0700
            Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-04-08 23:34 +0100
              Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-04-08 17:33 -0700
              Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2025-04-08 22:47 -0400
                Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2025-04-08 21:36 -0700
                  Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-04-08 23:12 -0700
                    Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-04-09 10:55 +0300
                      Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2025-04-09 13:52 -0700
                        Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-04-10 11:50 +0300
                          Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2025-04-11 12:27 -0400
                          Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2025-04-14 01:24 -0700
                            Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-04-14 12:55 +0300
                              Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2025-05-06 06:56 -0700
                                Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-05-06 13:25 -0700
                                  Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2025-05-08 08:37 -0700
                                    Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-05-08 15:48 +0000
                                      Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-05-08 16:32 +0000
                                      Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2025-05-08 22:53 -0700
                                Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-05-08 14:09 +0000
                                  Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-05-08 16:52 +0200
                                  Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2025-05-08 08:49 -0700
                Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-04-09 11:21 +0100
                  Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-04-09 15:03 -0700
                Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-04-09 21:32 +0000
              Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-04-08 22:58 -0700
            Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-04-08 15:36 -0700
    Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-04-03 15:02 +0300
      Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-04-03 13:06 -0500
      Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2025-04-27 12:05 -0700
        Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-04-28 16:27 +0300
          Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-04-29 13:38 -0500
          Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2025-05-06 15:06 -0700
          Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-06-26 09:01 +0000
            Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-06-26 13:27 +0100
              Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-06-27 00:39 +0000
                Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-06-27 02:40 +0100
                  Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-06-26 19:33 -0700
                  Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-06-28 14:16 -0500
                  Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-07-15 19:41 +0000
                    Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-07-16 03:55 +0100
                      Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-07-20 00:16 +0000
                        Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-07-20 07:58 +0100
                          Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-07-20 11:28 +0200
              Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-06-29 04:44 +0000
                Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-06-29 17:13 +0300
            Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-06-26 12:51 +0000
              Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-06-26 13:23 -0700
              Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-06-26 23:58 +0000
                Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-06-27 03:51 +0000
                  Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-06-27 13:44 +0200
                Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-06-27 14:01 +0000
            Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-06-26 15:57 +0200
              Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-06-26 16:10 +0100
            Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-06-26 12:31 -0700
              Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-06-26 23:59 +0300
                Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-06-26 21:09 +0000
                  Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-06-26 17:10 -0700
                    Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-06-27 04:33 +0200
                      Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-06-27 17:56 -0700
                        Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-06-29 05:03 +0200
                          Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2025-06-28 23:18 -0400
                            Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-06-28 20:37 -0700
                            Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-06-29 20:48 +0200
                              Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2025-06-30 21:59 -0400
                          Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-06-28 20:51 -0700
                            Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-06-29 20:40 +0200
                              Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" - correction Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-06-29 20:52 +0200
                                Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" - correction "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-06-29 12:14 -0700
                    Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-06-27 14:02 +0000
                  Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-06-27 14:52 +0300
                    Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-06-27 20:48 +0200
                    Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-06-28 23:59 +0000
                      Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2025-06-29 09:23 -0400
                        Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-07-29 00:56 +0000
                          Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2025-07-29 21:13 -0400
    Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2025-04-11 09:34 -0700
      Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-04-11 12:48 -0700
    Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2025-04-11 09:48 -0700
      Re: "A diagram of C23 basic types" Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-04-11 13:51 -0700

Page 16 of 23 — ← Prev page 1 … 14 15 [16] 17 18 … 23  Next page →


#392150

FromTim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com>
Date2025-04-07 06:46 -0700
Message-ID<86h630dqz2.fsf@linuxsc.com>
In reply to#391952
Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> writes:

> On 03.04.2025 16:58, David Brown wrote:
>
>> [...]
>>
>> I know people can use pre-processor conditional compilation based on
>> __STDC_VERSION__ to complain if code is compiled with an unexpected or
>> unsupported standard, but few people outside of library header authors
>> actually do that.  I'd really like :
>>
>>     #pragma STDC VERSION C17
>>
>> to force the compiler to use the equivalent of "-std=c17
>> -pedantic-errors" in gcc.
>
> (I understand the wish to have that #pragma supported.)

It never will be, for reasons that are quite obvious.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#391928

Frombart <bc@freeuk.com>
Date2025-04-03 15:59 +0100
Message-ID<vsm7p1$t7nv$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#391918
On 03/04/2025 14:44, Michael S wrote:
> On Thu, 3 Apr 2025 13:49:48 +0100
> bart <bc@freeuk.com> wrote:
> 
>> On 03/04/2025 09:59, David Brown wrote:
>>>
>>> It is bold, perhaps, but there are certainly good reasons.
>>
>> Perhaps go bolder and drop the need to explicitly include those 30 or
>> so standard headers. It's ridiculous having to micro-manage the
>> availablity of fundamental language features ('uint8_t' for example!)
>> in every module.
> 
> I don't find it ridiculous.

How far would it have to go before you found it so: 60 headers instead 
of 30; 120 headers? One header for each function/macro/type?

If you were to use my language, then everything that is part of the 
language, plus functions of the standard library, is available without 
needing to specify anything. That makes it a joy to use.

Other languages (not C++) are similar for core features, but they do 
tend to require explicit imports for standard libraries. I don't however 
believe they need 30 different headers or imports to cover everything 
that those provide in C.

Coding in C, you're debugging someone's module say, and you need print 
something, so you need stdio.h included at the top. Then you detect some 
error and need to do exit(1); now you need stdlib.h. Then you want to do 
strcpy() or memcpy(), and you need string.h!

(At some point, you decide you don't need those debug prints, but now 
what, do you have to get rid of those includes? It's just a pointless, 
annoying dance.)


> 
>>
>> When I suggested this is the past, people were up in arms about the
>> overheads of having to compile all those headers (in 2017, they were
>> 3-5KB lines in all for gcc on Windows/Linux).
>>
> 
> Overhead is a smaller concern. Name clashes are bigger concern.

Examples? Somebody would be foolhardy to use names like 'printf' or 
'exit' for their own, unrelated functions. (Compilers will anyway warn 
about that.)

But I suggested this was done in a 'new' compiler mode used for 
compiling fresh source code, not legacy code.



>> Yet the same people think nothing of using libraries like SDL2 (50K
>> lines of headers) or GTK2 (350K lines).
>>
>>> This does mean that some pre-C23 code will be incompatible with
>>> C23.
>>
>> This was also my view in the past, to draw a line under 'old' C and
>> to start using 'new' C.
>>
>> I understand C23 mode will be enabled by a compiler option
>> (-std=c23);
> 
> In 2025.
> An expectations are, however, that several years down the road it would
> be a default. Then people would have to specify compiler options in
> order to get older standard. And at some point older standards will be
> dropped. Not only K&r and C90. C99 will be dropped as well. Not that I
> expect to live that long.
> 
>> the same method could have been used to enable all std
>> headers, and for that to be the default.
>>
>> Hello World then becomes this one-liner:
>>
>>     int main() {puts("Hello, World!");}

> Somehow I don't feel excited by the prospect.

It's an example of not having to specify '#include <stdio.h>'; i/o 'just 
works'.



[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#391929

Fromscott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
Date2025-04-03 15:26 +0000
Message-ID<6NxHP.363009$l0_4.293847@fx43.iad>
In reply to#391928
bart <bc@freeuk.com> writes:
>On 03/04/2025 14:44, Michael S wrote:

>> Overhead is a smaller concern. Name clashes are bigger concern.
>
>Examples? Somebody would be foolhardy to use names like 'printf' or 
>'exit' for their own, unrelated functions. (Compilers will anyway warn 
>about that.)

I've written my own printf and exit implementations in the
past.   Not all C code has a runtime that provides those name.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#391930

Frombart <bc@freeuk.com>
Date2025-04-03 16:52 +0100
Message-ID<vsmaro$10v9o$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#391929
On 03/04/2025 16:26, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> bart <bc@freeuk.com> writes:
>> On 03/04/2025 14:44, Michael S wrote:
> 
>>> Overhead is a smaller concern. Name clashes are bigger concern.
>>
>> Examples? Somebody would be foolhardy to use names like 'printf' or
>> 'exit' for their own, unrelated functions. (Compilers will anyway warn
>> about that.)
> 
> I've written my own printf and exit implementations in the
> past.   Not all C code has a runtime that provides those name.

Then you have to specify, somehow, that you don't want those 
automatically included.

I mean, I'm sure there are people who want to buy cars with no engine, 
as they will install their own, but those will be in a tiny minority.

It would make it super-annoying to have ensure you'd remembered to tick 
the boxes for 'engine' and '4 wheels' for 99.999% of people with normal 
needs.

Since I wrote my post 50 minutes minutes ago, I had to put together a 
test program. I started off with 'stdio.h'. Then it need to use malloc 
(compiler reported an error) and I needed stdlib.h.

I needed to zero that memory (need string.h for 'memset' after another 
compiler error).

Then I wanted to time it; now I needed time.h (another compiler error, 
but here I had to guess it was time.h and not sys/time.h which also exists).

It is quite exasperating. I can't even just use a header 'stdall.h' 
which contains all the rest, since there was a likelihood I'd have to 
post the test programs for others to try out, and you can't use private 
headers. Maybe paste a list of all 30 includes? That wouldn't be 
appreciated either!

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#391987

FromDavid Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Date2025-04-04 13:31 +0200
Message-ID<vsofu3$3b14s$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#391930
On 03/04/2025 17:52, bart wrote:
> On 03/04/2025 16:26, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>> bart <bc@freeuk.com> writes:
>>> On 03/04/2025 14:44, Michael S wrote:
>>
>>>> Overhead is a smaller concern. Name clashes are bigger concern.
>>>
>>> Examples? Somebody would be foolhardy to use names like 'printf' or
>>> 'exit' for their own, unrelated functions. (Compilers will anyway warn
>>> about that.)
>>
>> I've written my own printf and exit implementations in the
>> past.   Not all C code has a runtime that provides those name.
> 
> Then you have to specify, somehow, that you don't want those 
> automatically included.
> 

It is not unusual in embedded systems to provide your own versions of 
standard library functions.  For example, I have regularly implemented 
my own "exit" as something like :

	_Noreturn void exit(int status) {
		(void) status;
		while (true) ;
	}

I do that because in my embedded systems, the program never ends - but 
the C startup code typically calls exit() after main() returns.  This 
pulls in exit() from the library, which pulls in everything for handling 
at_exit() functions, which pulls in malloc(), and so on - for small 
microcontrollers, you can sometimes end up with a significant fraction 
of your flash used by library code you never want to use.

Similarly, sometimes you might want to replace standard library IO 
functions with something appropriate for the small devices.

This is all undefined behaviour in the C standards (mostly UB because it 
is not discussed or defined), but the way linkers work and the way most 
C standard libraries are arranged means it works fine.

However, it's a bit more questionable if you are making your own 
functions with names that coincide with standard library function names 
but have different signatures.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#391938

FromKeith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com>
Date2025-04-03 11:31 -0700
Message-ID<85y0whjdw3.fsf@nosuchdomain.example.com>
In reply to#391908
bart <bc@freeuk.com> writes:
[...]
> I understand C23 mode will be enabled by a compiler option (-std=c23);
> the same method could have been used to enable all std headers, and
> for that to be the default.

The standard says exactly nothing about compiler options.  "-std=c23"
is a convention used by *some* compilers (gcc and other compilers
designed to be compatible with it).

> Hello World then becomes this one-liner:
>
>   int main() {puts("Hello, World!");}

A compiler could provide such an option as a non-conforming extension
with no change in the standard.  I'm not aware that any compiler
has done so, or that there's been any demand for it.  One reason
for the lack of demand might be that any code that depends on it
is not portable.  (Older versions of MS Visual Studio create a
"stdafx.h" header, but newer versions appear to have dropped that.)

-- 
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com
void Void(void) { Void(); } /* The recursive call of the void */

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#391941

FromDavid Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Date2025-04-03 20:51 +0200
Message-ID<vsmlc4$1c39t$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#391938
On 03/04/2025 20:31, Keith Thompson wrote:
> bart <bc@freeuk.com> writes:
> [...]
>> I understand C23 mode will be enabled by a compiler option (-std=c23);
>> the same method could have been used to enable all std headers, and
>> for that to be the default.
> 
> The standard says exactly nothing about compiler options.  "-std=c23"
> is a convention used by *some* compilers (gcc and other compilers
> designed to be compatible with it).
> 
>> Hello World then becomes this one-liner:
>>
>>    int main() {puts("Hello, World!");}
> 
> A compiler could provide such an option as a non-conforming extension
> with no change in the standard.  I'm not aware that any compiler
> has done so, or that there's been any demand for it.  One reason
> for the lack of demand might be that any code that depends on it
> is not portable.  (Older versions of MS Visual Studio create a
> "stdafx.h" header, but newer versions appear to have dropped that.)
> 

gcc provides such an option :

	gcc -include stdio.h hello_world.c

If someone really wanted to, they could easily make a shell script, bash 
alias, Windows bat file, or whatever, as a wrapper for gcc with a whole 
bunch of "-include" options for all the standard headers.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#391945

FromKeith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com>
Date2025-04-03 12:29 -0700
Message-ID<85ldshjb72.fsf@nosuchdomain.example.com>
In reply to#391941
David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> writes:
> On 03/04/2025 20:31, Keith Thompson wrote:
>> bart <bc@freeuk.com> writes:
>> [...]
>>> I understand C23 mode will be enabled by a compiler option (-std=c23);
>>> the same method could have been used to enable all std headers, and
>>> for that to be the default.
>> The standard says exactly nothing about compiler options.
>> "-std=c23"
>> is a convention used by *some* compilers (gcc and other compilers
>> designed to be compatible with it).
>> 
>>> Hello World then becomes this one-liner:
>>>
>>>    int main() {puts("Hello, World!");}
>> A compiler could provide such an option as a non-conforming
>> extension
>> with no change in the standard.  I'm not aware that any compiler
>> has done so, or that there's been any demand for it.  One reason
>> for the lack of demand might be that any code that depends on it
>> is not portable.  (Older versions of MS Visual Studio create a
>> "stdafx.h" header, but newer versions appear to have dropped that.)
>> 
>
> gcc provides such an option :
>
> 	gcc -include stdio.h hello_world.c
>
> If someone really wanted to, they could easily make a shell script,
> bash alias, Windows bat file, or whatever, as a wrapper for gcc with a
> whole bunch of "-include" options for all the standard headers.

I wouldn't call that "such an option".  The kind of option being
discussed is one that would implicitly include *all* the standard
headers.

Sure, you could use it in a wrapper script, but it would be just
as easy to write a wrapper script that generates and compiles a
source file that includes all the standard headers and the source
file and then compiles that (with a #line directive so diagnostic
messages refer to the original source file).

My point is that, as far as I'm aware, nobody has implemented
"implicitly include all the standard headers", either as a compiler
option or as a wrapper script.  I'm sure somebody has (I could do
it in a few minutes), but it's just not something that programmers
appear to want.

Of course part of the motivation for *not* wanting this is that
it results in non-portable code, and if it were standardized that
wouldn't be an issue.

And if it were standardized, <assert.h> would raise some issues,
since NDEBUG needs to be defined or not defined before including it.

-- 
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com
void Void(void) { Void(); } /* The recursive call of the void */

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#392494

FromTim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com>
Date2025-04-14 01:46 -0700
Message-ID<86ecxv9lkx.fsf@linuxsc.com>
In reply to#391945
Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> writes:

[considering ways of importing all headers defined as part
 of the standard library]

> My point is that, as far as I'm aware, nobody has implemented
> "implicitly include all the standard headers", either as a compiler
> option or as a wrapper script.  I'm sure somebody has (I could do
> it in a few minutes), but it's just not something that programmers
> appear to want.
>
> Of course part of the motivation for *not* wanting this is that
> it results in non-portable code, and if it were standardized that
> wouldn't be an issue.
>
> And if it were standardized, <assert.h> would raise some issues,
> since NDEBUG needs to be defined or not defined before including it.

Not really a problem, since if a different choice for NDEBUG were
desired then it could be #define'd or #undef'ed, as appropriate,
followed by another #include <assert.h>.

That said, it's hard to imagine many people wanting such a thing.
It's a very rare translation unit that needs or even wants access
to symbols defined in every header in the standard library.  And
it flies in the face of the common practice of #include'ing only
those headers that are actually needed in each translation unit.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#391936

FromKeith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com>
Date2025-04-03 11:19 -0700
Message-ID<855xjlkszr.fsf@nosuchdomain.example.com>
In reply to#391899
David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> writes:
[...]
> It is bold, perhaps, but there are certainly good reasons.  As far as
> I can see we have some keywords that have dropped their
> underscore-capital form:
>
> 	alignas
> 	alignof
> 	bool
> 	static_assert
> 	thread_local

The underscore-capital forms still exist as alternate spellings.
Dropping _Bool et al would have broken existing code.

> And we have some new ones :
>
> 	constexpr
> 	false
> 	nullptr
> 	true
> 	typeof
> 	typeof_unequal

That last one is "typeof_unqual".

[...]

-- 
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com
void Void(void) { Void(); } /* The recursive call of the void */

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#391942

FromDavid Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Date2025-04-03 20:54 +0200
Message-ID<vsmlh7$1c39t$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#391936
On 03/04/2025 20:19, Keith Thompson wrote:
> David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> writes:
> [...]
>> It is bold, perhaps, but there are certainly good reasons.  As far as
>> I can see we have some keywords that have dropped their
>> underscore-capital form:
>>
>> 	alignas
>> 	alignof
>> 	bool
>> 	static_assert
>> 	thread_local
> 
> The underscore-capital forms still exist as alternate spellings.
> Dropping _Bool et al would have broken existing code.
> 

Yes.  But they are listed as alternate spellings, rather than keywords. 
I don't think it makes any difference, other than that if they were 
called "keywords" then they would need to be mentioned more in the 
standards.

>> And we have some new ones :
>>
>> 	constexpr
>> 	false
>> 	nullptr
>> 	true
>> 	typeof
>> 	typeof_unequal
> 
> That last one is "typeof_unqual".
> 

That makes much more sense :-)

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#391846

Fromscott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
Date2025-04-02 16:16 +0000
Message-ID<vpdHP.1828825$TBhc.94105@fx16.iad>
In reply to#391841
Muttley@DastardlyHQ.org writes:
>On Wed, 2 Apr 2025 16:59:45 +0200
>David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wibbled:
>>On 02/04/2025 16:05, Muttley@DastardlyHQ.org wrote:
ist first.
>
>>18. "unreachable()" is now standard.
>
>Googled it - don't see the point. 

That's a defect in your understanding, not a defect in the standard.

I've found  the gcc equivelent useful often in standalone
applications (OS, Hypervisor, standalone utilities, etc).

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#391894

FromMuttley@DastardlyHQ.org
Date2025-04-03 08:45 +0000
Message-ID<vslhrm$7uv3$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#391846
On Wed, 02 Apr 2025 16:16:27 GMT
scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wibbled:
>Muttley@DastardlyHQ.org writes:
>>On Wed, 2 Apr 2025 16:59:45 +0200
>>David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wibbled:
>>>On 02/04/2025 16:05, Muttley@DastardlyHQ.org wrote:
>ist first.
>>
>>>18. "unreachable()" is now standard.
>>
>>Googled it - don't see the point. 
>
>That's a defect in your understanding, not a defect in the standard.
>
>I've found  the gcc equivelent useful often in standalone
>applications (OS, Hypervisor, standalone utilities, etc).

Enlighten me then.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#391902

FromDavid Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Date2025-04-03 11:41 +0200
Message-ID<vsll4b$8mfb$3@dont-email.me>
In reply to#391894
On 03/04/2025 10:45, Muttley@DastardlyHQ.org wrote:
> On Wed, 02 Apr 2025 16:16:27 GMT
> scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wibbled:
>> Muttley@DastardlyHQ.org writes:
>>> On Wed, 2 Apr 2025 16:59:45 +0200
>>> David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wibbled:
>>>> On 02/04/2025 16:05, Muttley@DastardlyHQ.org wrote:
>> ist first.
>>>
>>>> 18. "unreachable()" is now standard.
>>>
>>> Googled it - don't see the point.
>>
>> That's a defect in your understanding, not a defect in the standard.
>>
>> I've found  the gcc equivelent useful often in standalone
>> applications (OS, Hypervisor, standalone utilities, etc).
> 
> Enlighten me then.
> 

I can't tell you what Scott uses it for, but I have used gcc's 
__builtin_unreachable() a fair number of times in my coding.  I use it 
to inform both the compiler and human readers that a path is unreachable:

	switch (x) {
		case 1 : ...
		case 2 : ...
		case 3 : ...
		default : __builtin_unreachable();
	}

I can also use it to inform the compiler about data :

	if ((x < 0) || (x > 10)) __builtin_unreachable();
	// x must be 1 .. 10

Mostly I have it wrapped in macros that let me conveniently have 
run-time checking during testing or debugging, and extra efficiency in 
the code when I am confident it is bug-free.

Good use of __builtin_unreachable() can result in smaller and faster 
code, and possibly improved static error checking.  It is related to the 
C++23 "assume" attribute (which is also available as a gcc extension in 
any C and C++ version).

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#391905

FromMuttley@DastardlyHQ.org
Date2025-04-03 11:07 +0000
Message-ID<vslq6b$ginf$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#391902
On Thu, 3 Apr 2025 11:41:31 +0200
David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wibbled:
>On 03/04/2025 10:45, Muttley@DastardlyHQ.org wrote:
>> On Wed, 02 Apr 2025 16:16:27 GMT
>> scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wibbled:
>>> Muttley@DastardlyHQ.org writes:
>>>> On Wed, 2 Apr 2025 16:59:45 +0200
>>>> David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wibbled:
>>>>> On 02/04/2025 16:05, Muttley@DastardlyHQ.org wrote:
>>> ist first.
>>>>
>>>>> 18. "unreachable()" is now standard.
>>>>
>>>> Googled it - don't see the point.
>>>
>>> That's a defect in your understanding, not a defect in the standard.
>>>
>>> I've found  the gcc equivelent useful often in standalone
>>> applications (OS, Hypervisor, standalone utilities, etc).
>> 
>> Enlighten me then.
>> 
>
>I can't tell you what Scott uses it for, but I have used gcc's 
>__builtin_unreachable() a fair number of times in my coding.  I use it 
>to inform both the compiler and human readers that a path is unreachable:

What for? The compiler doesn't care and a human reader would probably 
prefer a meaningful comment if its not obvious. If you're worried about the
code accidently going there use an assert.

>	switch (x) {
>		case 1 : ...
>		case 2 : ...
>		case 3 : ...
>		default : __builtin_unreachable();
>	}
>
>I can also use it to inform the compiler about data :
>
>	if ((x < 0) || (x > 10)) __builtin_unreachable();
>	// x must be 1 .. 10

And that'll do what? You want the compiler to compile in a hidden value check?

>Good use of __builtin_unreachable() can result in smaller and faster 
>code, and possibly improved static error checking.  It is related to the 

Sorry, don't see how. If you think a piece of code is unreachable then don't
put it in in the first place!

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#391922

FromDavid Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Date2025-04-03 15:58 +0200
Message-ID<vsm45d$ncfh$4@dont-email.me>
In reply to#391905
On 03/04/2025 13:07, Muttley@DastardlyHQ.org wrote:
> On Thu, 3 Apr 2025 11:41:31 +0200
> David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wibbled:
>> On 03/04/2025 10:45, Muttley@DastardlyHQ.org wrote:
>>> On Wed, 02 Apr 2025 16:16:27 GMT
>>> scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wibbled:
>>>> Muttley@DastardlyHQ.org writes:
>>>>> On Wed, 2 Apr 2025 16:59:45 +0200
>>>>> David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wibbled:
>>>>>> On 02/04/2025 16:05, Muttley@DastardlyHQ.org wrote:
>>>> ist first.
>>>>>
>>>>>> 18. "unreachable()" is now standard.
>>>>>
>>>>> Googled it - don't see the point.
>>>>
>>>> That's a defect in your understanding, not a defect in the standard.
>>>>
>>>> I've found  the gcc equivelent useful often in standalone
>>>> applications (OS, Hypervisor, standalone utilities, etc).
>>>
>>> Enlighten me then.
>>>
>>
>> I can't tell you what Scott uses it for, but I have used gcc's
>> __builtin_unreachable() a fair number of times in my coding.  I use it
>> to inform both the compiler and human readers that a path is unreachable:
> 
> What for? The compiler doesn't care and a human reader would probably
> prefer a meaningful comment if its not obvious. If you're worried about the
> code accidently going there use an assert.

The compiler /does/ care - as I said, it can generate better code and 
sometimes do better static error checking.

Human readers prefer clear code to comments.  Comments get out of sync - 
code does not.

> 
>> 	switch (x) {
>> 		case 1 : ...
>> 		case 2 : ...
>> 		case 3 : ...
>> 		default : __builtin_unreachable();
>> 	}
>>
>> I can also use it to inform the compiler about data :
>>
>> 	if ((x < 0) || (x > 10)) __builtin_unreachable();
>> 	// x must be 1 .. 10
> 
> And that'll do what? You want the compiler to compile in a hidden value check?
> 

No, I want the compiler to be able to take advantage of the information 
that I have, that it could not otherwise infer from the code.

>> Good use of __builtin_unreachable() can result in smaller and faster
>> code, and possibly improved static error checking.  It is related to the
> 
> Sorry, don't see how. If you think a piece of code is unreachable then don't
> put it in in the first place!
> 

Ignorance is curable - wilful ignorance is much more stubborn.  But I 
will try.

Let me give you an example, paraphrased from the C23 standards:


	#include <stddef.h>

	enum Colours { red, green, blue };

	unsigned int colour_to_hex(enum Colours c) {
	    switch (c) {
	        case red : return 0xff'00'00;
	        case green : return 0x00'ff'00;
	        case blue : return 0x00'00'ff;
	    }
	    unreachable();
	}


With "unreachable()", "gcc -std=c23 -O2 -Wall" gives :

	colour_to_hex:
         	mov     edi, edi
	        mov     eax, DWORD PTR CSWTCH.1[0+rdi*4]
	        ret

Without it, it gives :

	colour_to_hex:
         	cmp     edi, 2
	        ja      .L1
	        mov     edi, edi
         	mov     eax, DWORD PTR CSWTCH.1[0+rdi*4]
	.L1:
	        ret

That is noticeably bigger and slower code.  gcc also gives a warning 
"control reaches end of non-void function".

Neither "// This should never be reached" nor "assert(false);" is a 
suitable alternative.

Try it for yourself.

<https://godbolt.org/z/8EG11MW4o>

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#391977

FromMuttley@DastardlyHQ.org
Date2025-04-04 09:40 +0000
Message-ID<vso9fa$34vau$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#391922
On Thu, 3 Apr 2025 15:58:05 +0200
David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wibbled:
>Human readers prefer clear code to comments.  Comments get out of sync - 
>code does not.

Thats not a reason for not using comments. Its very easy to understand your
own code that you've just written - not so much for someone else or for you
years down the line.

>Ignorance is curable - wilful ignorance is much more stubborn.  But I 
>will try.

Guffaw! You should do standup.

>Let me give you an example, paraphrased from the C23 standards:
>
>
>	#include <stddef.h>
>
>	enum Colours { red, green, blue };
>
>	unsigned int colour_to_hex(enum Colours c) {
>	    switch (c) {
>	        case red : return 0xff'00'00;
>	        case green : return 0x00'ff'00;
>	        case blue : return 0x00'00'ff;
>	    }
>	    unreachable();
>	}
>
>
>With "unreachable()", "gcc -std=c23 -O2 -Wall" gives :
>
>	colour_to_hex:
>         	mov     edi, edi
>	        mov     eax, DWORD PTR CSWTCH.1[0+rdi*4]
>	        ret
>
>Without it, it gives :
>
>	colour_to_hex:
>         	cmp     edi, 2
>	        ja      .L1
>	        mov     edi, edi
>         	mov     eax, DWORD PTR CSWTCH.1[0+rdi*4]
>	.L1:
>	        ret

Except its not unreachable is it? There's nothing in C to prevent you
calling that function with a value other than defined in the enum so what
happens if there's a bug and it hits unreachable? Oh thats right , its
"undefined" ie , a crash or hidden bug with bugger all info.

>Neither "// This should never be reached" nor "assert(false);" is a 
>suitable alternative.

In your opinion. I would never use that example above, its just asking for
trouble down the line.

Also FWIW, putting seperators in the hex values makes it less readable to me
not more.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#391988

FromDavid Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Date2025-04-04 13:39 +0200
Message-ID<vsogcq$3b14s$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#391977
On 04/04/2025 11:40, Muttley@DastardlyHQ.org wrote:
> On Thu, 3 Apr 2025 15:58:05 +0200
> David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wibbled:
>> Human readers prefer clear code to comments.  Comments get out of sync -
>> code does not.
> 
> Thats not a reason for not using comments. 

It is a reason for never using a comment when you can express the same 
thing in code.

> Its very easy to understand your
> own code that you've just written - not so much for someone else or for you
> years down the line.

If that's your problem, write better code - not more comments.

Comments should say /why/ you are doing something, not /what/ you are doing.

> 
>> Ignorance is curable - wilful ignorance is much more stubborn.  But I
>> will try.
> 
> Guffaw! You should do standup.
> 
>> Let me give you an example, paraphrased from the C23 standards:
>>
>>
>> 	#include <stddef.h>
>>
>> 	enum Colours { red, green, blue };
>>
>> 	unsigned int colour_to_hex(enum Colours c) {
>> 	    switch (c) {
>> 	        case red : return 0xff'00'00;
>> 	        case green : return 0x00'ff'00;
>> 	        case blue : return 0x00'00'ff;
>> 	    }
>> 	    unreachable();
>> 	}
>>
>>
>> With "unreachable()", "gcc -std=c23 -O2 -Wall" gives :
>>
>> 	colour_to_hex:
>>          	mov     edi, edi
>> 	        mov     eax, DWORD PTR CSWTCH.1[0+rdi*4]
>> 	        ret
>>
>> Without it, it gives :
>>
>> 	colour_to_hex:
>>          	cmp     edi, 2
>> 	        ja      .L1
>> 	        mov     edi, edi
>>          	mov     eax, DWORD PTR CSWTCH.1[0+rdi*4]
>> 	.L1:
>> 	        ret
> 
> Except its not unreachable is it?

It /is/ unreachable.  That's why I wrote it.

>  There's nothing in C to prevent you
> calling that function with a value other than defined in the enum so what
> happens if there's a bug and it hits unreachable?

There's nothing in the English language preventing me from calling you a 
"very stable genius" - but I can assure you that it is not going to happen.

> Oh thats right , its
> "undefined" ie , a crash or hidden bug with bugger all info.

Welcome to the world of software development.  If I specify a function 
as working for input values "red", "green", and "blue", and you choose 
to misuse it, that is /your/ fault, not mine.  I write the code to work 
with valid inputs and give no promises about what will happen with any 
other input.

> 
>> Neither "// This should never be reached" nor "assert(false);" is a
>> suitable alternative.
> 
> In your opinion. I would never use that example above, its just asking for
> trouble down the line.
> 
> Also FWIW, putting seperators in the hex values makes it less readable to me
> not more.
> 

Again, that's /your/ problem.


[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#391995

FromMuttley@DastardlyHQ.org
Date2025-04-04 14:10 +0000
Message-ID<vsop83$3k0rp$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#391988
On Fri, 4 Apr 2025 13:39:06 +0200
David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wibbled:
>On 04/04/2025 11:40, Muttley@DastardlyHQ.org wrote:
>> On Thu, 3 Apr 2025 15:58:05 +0200
>> David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wibbled:
>>> Human readers prefer clear code to comments.  Comments get out of sync -
>>> code does not.
>> 
>> Thats not a reason for not using comments. 
>
>It is a reason for never using a comment when you can express the same 
>thing in code.
>
>If that's your problem, write better code - not more comments.

Ah, the typical arrogant programmer who thinks their code is so well written
that anyone can understand it and comments arn't required. Glad I don't have
to work on anything you've written.

>
>Comments should say /why/ you are doing something, not /what/ you are doing.

Rubbish. A lot of the time what is being done is just as obtuse as why.

>> Except its not unreachable is it?
>
>It /is/ unreachable.  That's why I wrote it.

Really?

int main()
{
	colour_to_hex(10);
	return 0;
}

You have no idea how someone might try and use that function in the future.
Just assuming they'll always pass parameters within limits is not just 
cretinous, its dangerous.

>>  There's nothing in C to prevent you
>> calling that function with a value other than defined in the enum so what
>> happens if there's a bug and it hits unreachable?
>
>There's nothing in the English language preventing me from calling you a 
>"very stable genius" - but I can assure you that it is not going to happen.

Poor analogy.

>> Oh thats right , its
>> "undefined" ie , a crash or hidden bug with bugger all info.
>
>Welcome to the world of software development.  If I specify a function 
>as working for input values "red", "green", and "blue", and you choose 
>to misuse it, that is /your/ fault, not mine.  I write the code to work 
>with valid inputs and give no promises about what will happen with any 
>other input.

Its your fault if it dies in a heap with no info or worse returns but does
some random shit. Any well written API function should do at least basic 
sanity checking on its inputs and return a fail or assert unless its very low 
level and speed is the priority eg strlen().

But then you're arrogant, so no surprise really.

>> Also FWIW, putting seperators in the hex values makes it less readable to me
>> not more.
>> 
>
>Again, that's /your/ problem.

See above.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#391999

FromDavid Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Date2025-04-04 17:12 +0200
Message-ID<vsostb$3nn12$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#391995
On 04/04/2025 16:10, Muttley@DastardlyHQ.org wrote:
> On Fri, 4 Apr 2025 13:39:06 +0200
> David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wibbled:
>> On 04/04/2025 11:40, Muttley@DastardlyHQ.org wrote:
>>> On Thu, 3 Apr 2025 15:58:05 +0200
>>> David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wibbled:
>>>> Human readers prefer clear code to comments.  Comments get out of sync -
>>>> code does not.
>>>
>>> Thats not a reason for not using comments.
>>
>> It is a reason for never using a comment when you can express the same
>> thing in code.
>>
>> If that's your problem, write better code - not more comments.
> 
> Ah, the typical arrogant programmer who thinks their code is so well written
> that anyone can understand it and comments arn't required. Glad I don't have
> to work on anything you've written.

Arrogance would be judging my code without having seen it.  Writing code 
that is clear and does not require comments to say what it does is not 
arrogance - it is good coding.

> 
>>
>> Comments should say /why/ you are doing something, not /what/ you are doing.
> 
> Rubbish. A lot of the time what is being done is just as obtuse as why.

That can /occasionally/ be the case.  But if it happens a lot of the 
time, you are writing poor code.  It's time to refactor or rename.

> 
>>> Except its not unreachable is it?
>>
>> It /is/ unreachable.  That's why I wrote it.
> 
> Really?
> 
> int main()
> {
> 	colour_to_hex(10);
> 	return 0;
> }

UB.  It's /your/ fault.

Most of my code is written on the assumption that the people using it 
are not incompetent morons.  They may make mistakes in their coding, but 
not like that.  The code in question is unreachable because the kind of 
person who could write a call like that would not be working with my code.

There are situations where you want to make your code handle as wide a 
range of inputs as possible, and provide error returns to help catch 
mistakes.  Typically that is for boundary or interface code - such as 
libraries written for other people to use.

For internal code within TU's or parts of a project, such things are 
just a waste of effort.  They can make it significantly harder to design 
the code, since you have to figure out what behaviour is appropriate for 
invalid input - what should a function called "colour_to_hex" do when 
presented with an input that is not a colour?  Sometimes they are 
impossible to implement - how do you check the precondition "this is a 
valid pointer" ?  They limit your functionality and future expansion - 
if I have specified that inputs other than "red", "green" or "blue" give 
the result 0x00'00'00, then I can't add "purple" to the list of colours.

There are all sorts of reasons why it is a good idea for functions to 
have pre-conditions, and for letting calls to the function without 
satisfying those pre-conditions be undefined behaviour.

> 
> You have no idea how someone might try and use that function in the future.

Yes, I do.

> Just assuming they'll always pass parameters within limits is not just
> cretinous, its dangerous.

Nope.  It is how software development works.  If you don't understand 
about function specifications, you might want to read up on some basic 
computer science.

> 
>>>   There's nothing in C to prevent you
>>> calling that function with a value other than defined in the enum so what
>>> happens if there's a bug and it hits unreachable?
>>
>> There's nothing in the English language preventing me from calling you a
>> "very stable genius" - but I can assure you that it is not going to happen.
> 
> Poor analogy.
> 
>>> Oh thats right , its
>>> "undefined" ie , a crash or hidden bug with bugger all info.
>>
>> Welcome to the world of software development.  If I specify a function
>> as working for input values "red", "green", and "blue", and you choose
>> to misuse it, that is /your/ fault, not mine.  I write the code to work
>> with valid inputs and give no promises about what will happen with any
>> other input.
> 
> Its your fault if it dies in a heap with no info or worse returns but does
> some random shit.

If the caller fails to satisfy the pre-conditions of the function, 
that's the caller's fault.  If the function fails to satisfy the 
post-conditions when called with correct pre-conditions, that's the 
function's fault.  That's the contract, and that's the basis of all 
programming.

> Any well written API function should do at least basic
> sanity checking on its inputs and return a fail or assert unless its very low
> level and speed is the priority eg strlen().
> 

At clear boundaries of development responsibility - such as the public 
functions of a library - then it is often nice to add some extra 
checking and error feedback to help users of the library find their bugs.

> But then you're arrogant, so no surprise really.
> 
>>> Also FWIW, putting seperators in the hex values makes it less readable to me
>>> not more.
>>>
>>
>> Again, that's /your/ problem.
> 
> See above.
> 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


Page 16 of 23 — ← Prev page 1 … 14 15 [16] 17 18 … 23  Next page →

Back to top | Article view | comp.lang.c


csiph-web