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Groups > comp.lang.c > #170696 > unrolled thread

you think rust may outthrone c?

Started byfir <profesor.fir@gmail.com>
First post2023-07-12 07:18 -0700
Last post2023-07-23 03:32 -0700
Articles 20 on this page of 968 — 32 participants

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Contents

  you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-12 07:18 -0700
    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Blue-Maned_Hawk <bluemanedhawk@gmail.com> - 2023-07-13 01:37 -0400
      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? jak <nospam@please.ty> - 2023-07-13 10:16 +0200
      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-13 04:27 -0700
        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-13 05:01 -0700
      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? rek2 hispagatos <rek2@hispagatos.org.invalid> - 2023-07-13 14:10 +0000
        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-07-13 17:51 +0000
          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-13 18:56 +0000
            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-07-13 19:39 +0000
              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-13 20:30 +0000
                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-07-13 22:29 +0000
                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-14 00:19 +0100
                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-14 06:43 +0000
                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-14 11:47 +0100
                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-14 11:04 +0000
                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-07-14 21:01 +0000
                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-14 21:21 +0000
                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-14 13:52 +0200
                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-14 12:08 +0000
                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-14 17:10 +0200
                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-07-14 21:32 +0000
                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-14 22:04 +0000
                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-07-14 21:02 +0000
                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-14 21:35 +0000
                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-15 14:30 +0200
                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-07-15 16:36 +0000
                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-15 15:49 -0700
                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-15 16:02 -0700
                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-16 01:18 +0200
                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-15 16:25 -0700
                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-16 11:07 +0200
                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-16 05:42 -0700
                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-16 16:17 +0200
                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-16 07:44 -0700
                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-16 09:57 -0700
                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-16 10:34 -0700
                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-16 10:41 -0700
                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-16 20:55 +0100
                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-17 01:54 +0100
                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-17 02:43 +0100
                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-17 03:16 -0700
                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-17 14:54 +0200
                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-17 07:08 -0700
                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-17 16:43 +0200
                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-17 17:19 +0100
                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-07-21 00:05 -0700
                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-21 16:52 +0100
                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-17 17:21 +0100
                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-17 09:44 -0700
                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-17 21:24 +0200
                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-07-17 15:10 +0000
                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-07-17 18:46 +0000
                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-17 21:27 +0200
                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? jak <nospam@please.ty> - 2023-07-20 20:40 +0200
                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-07-20 19:27 +0000
                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? jak <nospam@please.ty> - 2023-07-20 22:16 +0200
                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-07-20 19:17 -0700
                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-17 16:15 +0100
                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-17 09:17 -0700
                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-17 21:41 +0200
                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-17 23:02 +0100
                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-17 08:22 +0200
                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-17 15:01 -0700
                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-07-17 15:01 -0700
                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-18 09:26 +0200
                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-07-18 00:33 -0700
                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-07-18 00:35 -0700
                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-07-18 00:37 -0700
                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-18 13:05 +0100
                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-07-19 17:56 -0700
                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-18 09:13 -0700
                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-18 12:18 +0100
                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-07-18 01:24 -0700
                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-17 15:06 -0700
                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-17 23:11 +0100
                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-17 15:30 -0700
                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-18 00:07 +0100
                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-18 01:28 +0100
                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-18 02:20 +0100
                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-07-18 02:12 +0000
                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-18 03:25 +0100
                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-18 09:55 +0200
                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-18 12:29 +0100
                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-19 02:29 +0100
                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-19 09:16 +0200
                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-19 12:38 +0100
                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-19 14:24 +0200
                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-19 14:12 +0100
                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-19 16:33 +0200
                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-19 16:37 +0100
                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-07-19 16:55 +0000
                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-19 19:44 +0100
                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-18 12:06 +0100
                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ike Naar <ike@sdf.org> - 2023-07-18 12:16 +0000
                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-18 14:09 +0100
                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-18 16:36 +0200
                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-18 17:59 +0100
                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-19 09:45 +0200
                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-19 03:31 +0100
                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-07-19 06:01 +0000
                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-19 01:19 -0700
                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-19 03:02 -0700
                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-19 04:30 -0700
                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-19 15:28 +0200
                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-19 15:12 -0700
                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-19 15:23 -0700
                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-20 10:44 +0200
                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-20 15:37 -0700
                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-07-19 23:01 +0000
                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-19 16:43 -0700
                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-20 10:41 +0200
                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-21 00:24 +0100
                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-20 16:58 -0700
                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-20 17:30 -0700
                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-20 17:50 -0700
                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-20 22:46 -0700
                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-21 09:57 +0200
                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-21 02:24 -0700
                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-21 13:33 +0200
                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-21 02:01 +0100
                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-20 18:28 -0700
                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-21 11:21 +0100
                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-21 03:44 -0700
                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-21 12:17 +0100
                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-21 15:05 +0200
                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-21 14:42 +0100
                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-21 16:22 +0200
                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-21 16:40 +0100
                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-21 18:56 +0200
                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-21 20:26 +0100
                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-21 21:06 +0100
                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-22 18:34 +0200
                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-22 20:09 +0100
                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-21 14:34 -0700
                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-21 23:03 +0100
                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-21 15:30 -0700
                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-21 21:49 -0700
                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-22 11:41 +0100
                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 04:15 -0700
                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 15:51 -0700
                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-22 19:05 +0200
                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-23 00:22 +0100
                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 16:38 -0700
                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-23 01:15 +0100
                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-07-23 13:45 +0000
                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-23 15:06 +0100
                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-23 17:54 +0200
                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-23 17:56 +0100
                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-23 11:03 -0700
                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-23 20:15 +0200
                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-23 20:18 +0100
                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-24 09:50 +0200
                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-24 10:58 +0100
                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-24 06:02 -0700
                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-24 14:08 +0100
                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-07-24 18:42 +0000
                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-08-05 10:22 -0700
                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-05 18:02 +0000
                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-05 18:32 +0000
                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-05 20:00 +0100
                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-06 01:42 +0000
                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-08-14 04:54 -0700
                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-14 18:22 +0000
                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-07-25 19:44 -0700
                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-25 21:09 -0700
                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-26 00:21 -0700
                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-26 11:17 +0100
                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-26 03:31 -0700
                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-26 16:52 -0700
                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-07-27 00:47 +0000
                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-26 21:19 +0100
                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-26 20:21 -0700
                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-26 21:49 -0700
                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-27 02:04 -0700
                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-27 02:42 -0700
                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-07-27 17:36 +0000
                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-07-27 05:50 +0000
                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-27 20:03 +0100
                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-26 11:04 +0100
                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-26 03:34 -0700
                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-08-12 10:57 -0700
                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-12 16:37 -0700
                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> - 2023-08-13 08:16 +0000
                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-13 15:48 +0000
                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-08-15 13:05 -0700
                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-08-15 14:20 -0700
                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-07-25 20:08 -0700
                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-24 20:19 +0200
                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-21 14:52 +0200
                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-21 16:14 +0100
                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-21 12:52 -0700
                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-22 18:29 +0200
                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-22 21:56 +0100
                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 16:11 -0700
                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-23 00:45 +0100
                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-23 17:24 +0200
                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-23 17:28 +0100
                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-07-23 16:45 +0000
                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-24 10:04 +0200
                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-24 07:43 +0200
                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-23 22:10 +0100
                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-23 14:51 -0700
                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-23 23:12 +0100
                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-23 15:19 -0700
                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-24 20:25 +0200
                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-24 17:22 +0100
                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-24 09:52 -0700
                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-25 02:52 +0100
                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-24 17:37 +0200
                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-07-24 16:19 +0000
                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-24 20:34 +0200
                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-25 02:42 +0100
                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-25 10:36 +0200
                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-25 16:41 +0100
                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-07-25 16:22 +0000
                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-25 17:40 +0100
                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-07-26 02:40 -0700
                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-26 11:30 +0100
                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-07-26 06:41 -0700
                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-27 01:06 +0100
                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-27 01:55 +0100
                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-26 18:03 -0700
                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-27 03:17 +0100
                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-27 11:50 +0100
                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-07-27 02:50 +0000
                                                                                                            Overflow and undefined behaviour (WAS: you think rust may outthrone c?) Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> - 2023-07-25 16:43 +0000
                                                                                                              Re: Overflow and undefined behaviour (WAS: you think rust may outthrone c?) Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-25 19:15 +0200
                                                                                                                Re: Overflow and undefined behaviour (WAS: you think rust may outthrone c?) Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-25 18:43 +0100
                                                                                                              Re: Overflow and undefined behaviour Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-25 15:03 -0700
                                                                                                                Re: Overflow and undefined behaviour Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> - 2023-07-26 04:10 +0000
                                                                                                                  Re: Overflow and undefined behaviour Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-25 21:51 -0700
                                                                                                                  Re: Overflow and undefined behaviour Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-26 22:07 +0100
                                                                                                              Re: Overflow and undefined behaviour Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-26 21:55 +0100
                                                                                                                Re: Overflow and undefined behaviour Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-26 22:26 +0100
                                                                                                                  Re: Overflow and undefined behaviour Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-26 17:26 -0700
                                                                                                                  Re: Overflow and undefined behaviour Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-27 01:38 +0100
                                                                                                                  Re: Overflow and undefined behaviour Phil Carmody <pc+usenet@asdf.org> - 2023-08-13 14:53 +0300
                                                                                                                    Re: Overflow and undefined behaviour Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-13 13:07 +0100
                                                                                                                    What's wrong?  The phrasing, that's what! (Was: Overflow and undefined behaviour) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2023-08-13 13:16 +0000
                                                                                                                    Re: Overflow and undefined behaviour Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-13 16:25 +0100
                                                                                                                      Re: Overflow and undefined behaviour Phil Carmody <pc+usenet@asdf.org> - 2023-08-14 12:10 +0300
                                                                                                                        Re: Overflow and undefined behaviour Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-08-14 04:33 -0700
                                                                                                                          Re: Overflow and undefined behaviour Phil Carmody <pc+usenet@asdf.org> - 2023-08-14 14:56 +0300
                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-07-25 17:34 +0000
                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-25 20:55 +0200
                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-28 02:46 +0100
                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-25 15:53 -0700
                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-07-24 22:33 -0700
                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-07-24 09:45 -0700
                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-24 14:29 -0700
                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-07-26 07:03 -0700
                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-26 07:41 -0700
                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-26 16:01 +0100
                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-07-26 15:21 +0000
                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-26 19:13 +0100
                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-07-26 18:41 +0000
                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-26 22:07 +0100
                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-27 13:34 +0200
                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-27 05:15 -0700
                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-27 15:14 +0200
                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-27 06:31 -0700
                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-27 16:17 +0200
                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-27 07:53 -0700
                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-27 20:45 +0100
                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-08-04 00:21 -0700
                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-04 18:29 +0000
                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-04 11:35 -0700
                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-08-05 06:09 -0700
                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-27 14:30 +0100
                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-27 16:48 +0200
                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-27 17:18 +0100
                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-27 09:45 -0700
                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-27 19:18 +0100
                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-01 18:10 +0200
                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-01 15:00 +0200
                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-01 15:41 +0100
                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-01 16:16 +0000
                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-01 17:50 +0100
                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-01 17:04 +0000
                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-01 18:25 +0100
                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-01 18:26 +0000
                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-01 19:18 +0200
                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-01 17:41 +0000
                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-01 21:01 +0100
                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-02 03:41 -0700
                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-02 12:09 +0100
                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-02 05:01 -0700
                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-02 17:04 +0100
                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-02 09:10 -0700
                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-02 23:48 +0200
                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-02 15:25 -0700
                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-03 11:42 +0200
                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-04 02:15 -0700
                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> - 2023-08-04 14:20 +0000
                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-04 17:12 +0200
                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-04 08:20 -0700
                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-04 18:04 +0200
                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-04 09:17 -0700
                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-05 13:39 +0200
                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-05 05:08 -0700
                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-08 17:18 +0200
                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-08 16:35 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-08 09:04 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-08 16:41 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-08 18:46 +0200
                                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-08 10:04 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-08 17:53 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-09 10:41 +0200
                                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-08 18:55 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-09 00:26 +0200
                                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-08 16:51 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-08 20:23 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-09 13:42 +0200
                                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-09 05:32 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-15 13:00 +0200
                                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2023-08-09 05:35 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-09 05:48 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-09 14:17 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-15 13:06 +0200
                                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-09 13:44 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) - 2023-08-09 14:00 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-09 15:09 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-09 07:15 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-09 15:48 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-09 08:54 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-09 15:18 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-09 16:01 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-09 15:50 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-09 17:51 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-09 21:51 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-15 13:16 +0200
                                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-09 09:18 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-10 00:05 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-08 19:10 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-08 16:24 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-09 14:24 +0200
                                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-09 17:18 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-09 17:38 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-15 13:35 +0200
                                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Phil Carmody <pc+usenet@asdf.org> - 2023-08-15 17:51 +0300
                                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-15 17:18 +0200
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-15 16:01 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Phil Carmody <pc+usenet@asdf.org> - 2023-08-15 23:11 +0300
                                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-15 15:48 +0000
                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-02 23:40 +0200
                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-02 17:58 +0200
                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-02 19:07 +0000
                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-02 22:13 +0100
                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-03 02:07 +0100
                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-03 02:34 +0100
                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-03 11:39 +0100
                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-03 15:10 +0100
                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-03 17:37 +0100
                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-03 18:56 +0100
                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-05 23:11 +0100
                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-06 00:21 +0100
                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-06 00:54 +0100
                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-06 11:18 +0100
                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-06 17:06 +0100
                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-06 17:22 +0100
                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-06 14:40 -0700
                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-06 23:04 +0100
                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-06 15:19 -0700
                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-06 23:33 +0100
                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-06 17:20 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-07 01:52 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-06 18:12 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-07 10:35 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-08-07 07:41 -0400
                                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-07 04:53 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-07 14:15 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-07 16:13 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-07 08:40 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-07 17:05 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-07 09:43 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-08 00:51 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                Making accountants cross (wa Re: you think rust may outthrone c?) Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> - 2023-08-10 15:38 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: Making accountants cross (wa Re: you think rust may outthrone c?) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-10 16:26 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: Making accountants cross (wa Re: you think rust may outthrone c?) Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-10 16:35 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: Making accountants cross (wa Re: you think rust may outthrone c?) Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-10 16:31 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                    Re: Making accountants cross (wa Re: you think rust may outthrone c?) Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2023-08-10 16:59 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                      Re: Making accountants cross (wa Re: you think rust may outthrone c?) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-08-10 11:13 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                                      Re: Making accountants cross (wa Re: you think rust may outthrone c?) Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-10 18:26 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                        Re: Making accountants cross (wa Re: you think rust may outthrone c?) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-08-10 11:30 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-08 17:39 +0200
                                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-07 18:35 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-07 21:51 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-07 23:53 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-08 01:28 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-08-07 22:21 -0400
                                                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-08 12:05 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-08 04:13 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-08 15:04 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-08-08 08:22 -0400
                                                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-08 15:16 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2023-08-08 09:15 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-08 18:33 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-08-08 21:58 -0400
                                                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-09 11:05 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-09 11:53 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2023-08-09 05:10 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-08 13:57 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2023-08-08 08:55 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-08 18:23 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-08 15:28 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-07 15:17 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-08 01:08 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-07 18:31 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-08 00:43 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-08-08 06:20 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-08 15:56 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-08-08 08:35 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-09 02:44 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-08-09 05:53 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-07 16:20 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2023-08-07 13:10 -0400
                                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-07 10:24 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-08-07 22:46 -0400
                                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-07 14:52 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-08 01:01 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-07 17:59 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-08 11:34 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-08-08 08:34 -0400
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-08 14:51 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-08 23:19 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-08 22:58 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-09 00:33 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-08 23:50 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2023-08-09 04:07 -0700
                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-03 14:08 -0700
                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-03 17:09 +0100
                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-02 18:39 -0700
                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-03 02:12 +0000
                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-02 20:08 -0700
                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-03 23:42 +0200
                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-03 15:44 -0700
                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-04 07:44 +0200
                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-04 07:14 +0000
                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-04 17:14 +0200
                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-04 13:56 +0000
                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-04 15:25 +0100
                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-08-04 17:05 -0400
                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-04 22:32 +0100
                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-08-04 17:46 -0400
                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-04 21:47 +0000
                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-05 00:43 +0100
                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-05 00:15 +0000
                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-05 01:33 +0100
                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-05 02:11 +0000
                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-05 11:00 +0100
                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-06 16:50 +0200
                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-08-06 18:40 -0400
                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-07 00:31 +0000
                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-08-04 22:44 -0400
                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-05 10:46 +0100
                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-08-06 07:53 -0400
                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-07 11:53 +0200
                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-06 16:43 +0200
                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-08-04 19:50 -0700
                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-05 02:58 +0000
                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-05 14:17 +0100
                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-05 17:38 +0000
                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-08-06 07:56 -0400
                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-06 13:38 +0100
                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-07 14:12 +0200
                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-07 16:03 +0100
                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-07 16:24 +0000
                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-07 17:54 +0100
                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-07 14:16 +0200
                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-07 05:45 -0700
                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-07 22:17 +0100
                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-07 22:19 +0000
                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-08-07 22:40 -0400
                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-08 18:07 +0200
                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-08-08 05:53 -0700
                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-08 15:31 +0100
                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-08 18:17 +0200
                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-08 09:31 -0700
                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-09 22:27 +0200
                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-09 18:49 -0700
                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-08 16:39 +0000
                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-04 00:37 +0100
                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-04 18:07 +0100
                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-04 10:32 -0700
                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-04 19:36 +0100
                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-04 11:53 -0700
                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-08 12:57 +0200
                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-08 12:32 +0200
                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-08 03:59 -0700
                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-08 12:19 +0100
                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-08-08 08:40 -0400
                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-08 12:17 +0200
                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> - 2023-08-04 18:00 +0100
                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-04 19:25 +0100
                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-08 13:11 +0200
                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-08 04:22 -0700
                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-08 14:45 +0200
                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-08 06:02 -0700
                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-08 15:39 +0100
                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-08 08:36 -0700
                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-09 02:15 +0100
                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-08 12:36 +0100
                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-08 14:05 +0000
                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-08 15:31 +0100
                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-08 14:34 +0000
                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-08 16:11 +0100
                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-08 15:49 +0000
                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-08 21:05 +0100
                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2023-08-08 09:02 -0700
                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-08 16:27 +0200
                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-08 16:09 +0100
                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-08 16:42 +0100
                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-08 18:38 +0200
                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-08 09:47 -0700
                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-08 19:14 +0100
                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2023-08-08 10:04 -0700
                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-08 17:32 +0000
                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-08 10:47 -0700
                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-09 03:04 +0100
                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-08 19:44 -0700
                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-09 11:22 +0100
                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Richard Harnden <richard.nospam@gmail.com> - 2023-08-09 11:36 +0100
                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-09 11:58 +0100
                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Richard Harnden <richard.nospam@gmail.com> - 2023-08-09 14:29 +0100
                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-09 16:02 +0000
                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-09 14:17 -0700
                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2023-08-09 11:05 +0000
                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-09 13:32 +0100
                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Richard Harnden <richard.nospam@gmail.com> - 2023-08-09 14:32 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-09 15:07 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Richard Harnden <richard.nospam@gmail.com> - 2023-08-09 15:48 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-09 16:08 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-09 15:52 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-09 18:09 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-09 16:34 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-12 10:36 +0200
                                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-12 02:58 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-13 08:18 +0200
                                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-13 07:07 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-13 07:34 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-13 08:24 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-15 14:10 +0200
                                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-13 00:18 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> - 2023-08-13 08:08 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2023-08-13 03:44 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-13 06:16 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-13 15:53 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-13 08:58 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-13 17:36 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2023-08-13 03:38 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-12 12:12 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-13 09:30 +0200
                                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-13 16:02 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-13 17:48 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-13 18:53 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-13 20:41 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-13 20:40 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-14 04:28 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-14 15:52 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-14 16:06 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-15 14:19 +0200
                                                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-15 14:33 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-15 17:24 +0200
                                                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-15 15:58 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-15 15:58 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-15 15:27 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-11 08:43 +0200
                                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-11 11:17 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-08-11 10:50 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-11 13:09 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-11 13:32 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2023-08-11 07:33 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-11 15:38 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-08-11 16:45 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-08-11 10:20 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-11 18:35 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-08-11 20:33 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-11 22:09 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Richard Harnden <richard.nospam@gmail.com> - 2023-08-11 22:59 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-08-11 23:25 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-12 00:26 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-15 14:24 +0200
                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-11 21:30 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-11 13:44 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-08-11 14:55 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-11 21:38 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-11 22:46 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-15 14:32 +0200
                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-12 12:07 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-11 15:34 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-11 15:39 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-11 17:26 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-11 16:53 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-11 18:15 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-11 18:46 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-15 14:35 +0200
                                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Richard Harnden <richard.nospam@gmail.com> - 2023-08-11 19:43 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-13 09:34 +0200
                                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-13 16:02 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-13 17:38 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-15 14:37 +0200
                                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-15 14:34 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-15 16:17 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-15 17:25 +0200
                                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-15 16:00 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Ike Naar <ike@sdf.org> - 2023-08-11 10:05 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-11 11:48 +0100
                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2023-08-09 15:06 +0000
                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-09 16:16 +0000
                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-10 09:38 +0200
                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-10 10:51 +0100
                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-09 15:57 +0000
                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-10 00:15 +0200
                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-10 00:22 +0100
                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-08-09 17:02 -0700
                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-10 14:27 +0000
                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-10 00:01 +0100
                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-10 00:39 +0100
                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-09 17:08 -0700
                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-10 00:21 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-10 02:18 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-10 02:28 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-09 22:42 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-10 14:23 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-09 19:10 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-10 14:24 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-10 14:21 +0000
                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-10 03:16 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-10 14:25 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-10 16:18 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-10 15:53 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-10 16:15 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-10 16:59 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2023-08-10 10:12 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2023-08-10 17:16 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2023-08-10 10:27 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-10 17:54 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-10 18:18 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-10 18:16 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-08-10 14:44 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-08-10 14:56 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-10 23:17 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-08-10 16:06 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-08-10 16:20 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-08-10 16:38 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-08-10 16:58 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-08-10 18:43 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-11 01:30 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-08-10 17:58 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-08-11 07:03 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-08-11 07:28 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-08-11 07:47 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-08-11 08:06 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-11 16:13 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-08-11 08:28 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-08-11 08:37 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-08-11 08:46 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-08-11 08:58 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-08-11 09:52 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-08-10 18:21 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-10 23:09 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-11 01:14 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> - 2023-08-11 05:42 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-11 06:07 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-11 13:30 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-11 19:41 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-08-12 08:21 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-08-12 11:14 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-10 17:39 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2023-08-10 09:40 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-10 17:48 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-15 14:45 +0200
                                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-15 13:52 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-15 14:40 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-15 06:26 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-15 15:43 +0200
                                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-08-16 10:09 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-08-18 07:36 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-10 16:33 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-10 16:57 +0000
                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2023-08-10 01:10 -0700
                                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-10 16:08 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2023-08-10 09:49 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-10 18:08 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-10 21:04 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-10 20:56 +0000
                                                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-10 14:20 +0000
                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2023-08-08 10:53 -0700
                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-08 18:30 +0000
                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-09 23:14 +0200
                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-08 19:07 +0100
                                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-08 15:46 -0700
                                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-09 00:15 +0100
                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-08 23:54 +0000
                                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-08 17:52 -0700
                                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-09 02:22 +0100
                                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-08 19:01 -0700
                                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-08 16:57 -0700
                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may *DE*throne c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-08 14:03 +0000
                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-27 13:13 -0700
                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-28 23:35 +0100
                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-28 19:21 -0700
                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-29 21:15 +0100
                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-29 14:45 -0700
                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-29 00:05 -0700
                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-29 11:19 +0100
                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-07-29 13:47 +0000
                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-29 15:10 +0100
                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-07-29 16:00 +0000
                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-07-29 15:30 +0000
                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-29 14:22 -0700
                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-29 14:49 -0700
                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-07-27 14:07 +0000
                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-27 16:03 +0100
                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-01 19:43 +0200
                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-01 18:37 +0000
                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-01 22:16 +0100
                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-01 21:53 +0000
                                                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-01 23:28 +0100
                                                                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-02 01:54 +0000
                                                                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-02 11:14 +0100
                                                                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-02 18:23 +0200
                                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-02 19:02 +0100
                                                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-03 11:28 +0200
                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-03 11:53 +0100
                                                                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-03 11:54 +0100
                                                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-02 18:12 +0200
                                                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-01 14:45 -0700
                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-07-26 15:02 +0000
                                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-26 17:08 -0700
                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-21 12:38 -0700
                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-21 12:29 -0700
                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-21 09:46 +0200
                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-21 02:29 -0700
                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-22 21:04 +0200
                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-19 14:38 +0100
                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-19 07:00 -0700
                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-19 17:31 +0100
                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-19 14:54 -0700
                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-20 10:55 +0200
                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-21 03:07 +0100
                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-19 12:07 +0100
                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-19 15:15 +0100
                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-19 17:08 +0100
                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-19 17:30 +0100
                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-19 19:22 +0200
                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-19 20:28 +0100
                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-19 16:27 +0200
                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-19 17:06 +0100
                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-19 20:39 +0200
                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-19 20:21 +0100
                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-19 15:42 -0700
                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-07-19 23:31 +0000
                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-19 18:53 -0700
                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-20 01:46 -0700
                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> - 2023-07-20 09:51 +0000
                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-20 03:36 -0700
                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-20 12:13 +0100
                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-07-20 13:06 -0700
                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-20 11:28 +0200
                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-07-20 16:44 +0000
                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2023-07-21 01:22 -0400
                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-21 02:03 -0700
                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-07-22 15:37 -0700
                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-20 02:08 +0100
                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-07-22 15:43 -0700
                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-20 11:07 +0200
                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-21 02:49 +0100
                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-21 10:17 +0200
                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-21 16:30 +0100
                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-21 12:54 -0700
                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-07-22 15:56 -0700
                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-19 17:22 +0100
                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-19 21:01 +0200
                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-19 20:46 +0100
                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-19 20:47 +0100
                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-19 21:49 +0100
                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-20 11:42 +0200
                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? "minf...@arcor.de" <minforth@arcor.de> - 2023-07-20 05:39 -0700
                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-20 14:55 +0200
                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-20 15:03 +0100
                                                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-20 18:22 +0200
                                                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-20 15:54 -0700
                                                                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-21 10:18 +0200
                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-07-20 13:04 -0700
                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-21 10:20 +0200
                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-20 20:51 +0100
                                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-20 11:38 +0200
                                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-07-20 13:03 -0700
                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-21 10:24 +0200
                                                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-07-21 13:03 -0700
                                                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-07-23 16:17 -0700
                                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-07-21 14:35 +0000
                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-07-18 14:34 +0000
                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-18 08:04 -0700
                                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-17 21:27 -0700
                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-18 12:10 +0100
                                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-18 16:43 +0200
                                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-18 14:59 +0100
                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-17 17:44 -0700
                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-07-18 00:14 +0000
                                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-18 10:13 +0200
                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-17 16:10 -0700
                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-17 16:13 -0700
                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-17 16:16 -0700
                                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-17 16:29 -0700
                    Yeah, C is harder than many programming languages.  Your point? (Was: you think rust may outthrone c?) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2023-07-14 11:24 +0000
                      Re: Yeah, C is harder than many programming languages.  Your point? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-14 11:30 +0000
                        Re: Yeah, C is harder than many programming languages. Your point? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-14 05:20 -0700
                          Re: Yeah, C is harder than many programming languages. Your point? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-14 12:29 +0000
                            Re: Yeah, C is harder than many programming languages. Your point? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-14 05:46 -0700
                              Re: Yeah, C is harder than many programming languages. Your point? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-14 13:01 +0000
                                Re: Yeah, C is harder than many programming languages. Your point? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-14 06:07 -0700
                                  Re: Yeah, C is harder than many programming languages. Your point? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-14 13:26 +0000
                                    Why not? (Was: Yeah, C is harder than many programming languages. Your point?) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2023-07-14 13:32 +0000
                                      Re: Why not? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-14 13:43 +0000
                                        Re: Why not? (killfiles) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2023-07-14 14:10 +0000
                                          Re: Why not? (killfiles) kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-14 14:28 +0000
                                            Re: Why not? (killfiles) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2023-07-14 18:46 +0000
                                    Re: Yeah, C is harder than many programming languages. Your point? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-14 06:52 -0700
                              Re: Yeah, C is harder than many programming languages. Your point? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-15 02:21 -0700
                            Re: Yeah, C is harder than many programming languages. Your point? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2023-07-14 09:14 -0400
                              Posting for our own amusement (Was: Yeah, C is harder than many programming languages. Your point?) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2023-07-14 13:29 +0000
                                Re: Posting for our own amusement (Was: Yeah, C is harder than many programming languages. Your point?) "james...@alumni.caltech.edu" <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2023-07-14 07:26 -0700
                                  Re: Posting for our own amusement (Was: Yeah, C is harder than many programming languages. Your point?) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2023-07-14 14:39 +0000
                                    Re: Posting for our own amusement (Was: Yeah, C is harder than many programming languages. Your point?) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-14 17:30 +0200
                                      Re: Posting for our own amusement (Was: Yeah, C is harder than many programming languages. Your point?) Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-07-14 20:53 +0000
                              Re: Yeah, C is harder than many programming languages. Your point? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-14 06:30 -0700
                              Re: Yeah, C is harder than many programming languages. Your point? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-14 13:30 +0000
                        Re: Yeah, C is harder than many programming languages.  Your point? gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2023-07-14 12:29 +0000
                          Re: Yeah, C is harder than many programming languages.  Your point? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-14 12:46 +0000
                        Re: Yeah, C is harder than many programming languages.  Your point? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-07-14 20:46 +0000
                          Re: Yeah, C is harder than many programming languages.  Your point? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-14 21:49 +0000
                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Po Lu <luangruo@yahoo.com> - 2023-07-14 20:52 +0800
                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-14 13:16 +0000
                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-14 17:34 +0200
                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-14 16:20 +0000
                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-14 19:11 +0200
                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-14 17:26 +0000
                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Paul N <gw7rib@aol.com> - 2023-07-15 04:42 -0700
                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-15 12:29 +0000
                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-15 18:40 +0200
                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-07-20 19:05 -0700
                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-07-14 21:25 +0000
                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-14 22:30 +0000
                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-14 15:48 -0700
                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-14 22:56 +0000
                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-15 14:41 +0200
                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-15 12:55 +0000
                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-15 18:46 +0200
                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-15 17:28 +0000
                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-15 20:20 +0200
                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-15 18:42 +0000
                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-07-22 06:46 -0700
                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Po Lu <luangruo@yahoo.com> - 2023-07-15 14:12 +0800
                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-15 01:05 -0700
                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-07-20 18:54 -0700
                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-15 08:59 +0000
                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2023-07-17 02:26 -0400
                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-07-14 20:43 +0000
                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-14 21:58 +0000
                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-14 09:32 +0200
                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-14 07:58 +0000
                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-14 12:56 +0200
                  OT Re: you think rust may outthrone c? jak <nospam@please.ty> - 2023-07-14 10:20 +0200
                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Po Lu <luangruo@yahoo.com> - 2023-07-14 20:48 +0800
            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@g{oogle}mail.com> - 2023-07-17 18:33 +0300
              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-17 20:47 +0100
                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-17 21:14 +0100
                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-17 21:47 +0100
      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-17 18:26 +0200
        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-17 17:00 +0000
          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-17 20:03 +0200
            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-17 20:28 +0000
              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-19 18:06 +0200
          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-07-17 11:42 -0700
            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-17 19:18 +0000
              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-07-17 12:20 -0700
                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-07-17 20:26 +0000
                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-07-18 01:06 -0700
        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Blue-Maned_Hawk <bluemanedhawk@gmail.com> - 2023-07-18 06:37 -0400
          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-19 18:07 +0200
            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-19 09:17 -0700
              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-20 11:06 +0200
            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Blue-Maned_Hawk <bluemanedhawk@gmail.com> - 2023-07-19 19:16 -0400
              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-20 11:07 +0200
                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Blue-Maned_Hawk <bluemanedhawk@gmail.com> - 2023-07-20 08:49 -0400
                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-20 16:25 +0200
                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-20 19:48 +0200
                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Blue-Maned_Hawk <bluemanedhawk@gmail.com> - 2023-07-21 02:06 -0400
                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-21 09:32 +0200
                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-21 06:06 -0700
                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-21 06:13 -0700
                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 14:57 +0200
                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 07:10 -0700
                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 16:29 +0200
                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 07:33 -0700
                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 16:35 +0200
                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Blue-Maned_Hawk <bluemanedhawk@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 01:30 -0400
                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 15:00 +0200
                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-22 14:53 +0100
                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 07:22 -0700
                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 16:32 +0200
                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 07:42 -0700
                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 17:01 +0200
                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? jak <nospam@please.ty> - 2023-07-22 17:45 +0200
                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 18:22 +0200
                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? jak <nospam@please.ty> - 2023-07-22 19:00 +0200
                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 19:06 +0200
                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? jak <nospam@please.ty> - 2023-07-22 19:34 +0200
                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 14:15 -0700
                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 14:20 -0700
                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 14:25 -0700
                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 14:33 -0700
                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-23 03:23 -0700
                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-23 03:28 +0200
                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-22 16:48 +0100
                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 18:24 +0200
                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-22 19:02 +0100
                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 20:06 +0200
                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 14:07 -0700
                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-23 03:29 +0200
                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-23 00:52 -0700
                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-23 02:03 -0700
                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-23 02:18 -0700
                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-23 13:44 +0200
                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-23 13:43 +0200
                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-23 05:03 -0700
                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-23 05:07 -0700
                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-23 05:14 -0700
                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-23 05:54 -0700
                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-23 05:31 -0700
                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-23 05:42 -0700
                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-23 15:16 +0200
                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-23 06:39 -0700
                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-23 15:49 +0200
                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-07-23 14:56 +0100
                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-23 16:11 +0200
                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-07-23 14:34 +0000
                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-07-23 18:43 +0200
                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 07:19 -0700
                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 16:34 +0200
                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 07:48 -0700
                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 07:58 -0700
                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 08:00 -0700
                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 17:01 +0200
                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 08:09 -0700
                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 16:59 +0200
                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 08:02 -0700
                                        Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 17:07 +0200
                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 08:18 -0700
                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 17:42 +0200
                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 08:51 -0700
                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 18:26 +0200
                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 08:42 -0700
                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 09:20 -0700
                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 18:27 +0200
                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 14:06 -0700
                                                Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-23 03:30 +0200
                                                  Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-23 00:58 -0700
                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-23 01:06 -0700
                                                    Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-23 15:16 +0200
                                                      Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-23 06:40 -0700
                                          Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 08:49 -0700
                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 08:57 -0700
                                              Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 09:01 -0700
                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 18:30 +0200
                                            Re: you think rust may outthrone c? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2023-07-23 03:32 -0700

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#170787

Fromkalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen)
Date2023-07-15 12:29 +0000
Message-ID<u8u3ff$cr1u$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#170786
Paul N <gw7rib@aol.com> wrote:
> I think you could get such a bug if you assume that 
> the letters of the alphabet all have consecutive values.
> It's true of many computers today, but was not true of 
> the mainframe when I was at university, which used 
> EBCDIC instead of ASCII. As I understand it, this is 
> not "Implementation Defined behaviour" because there is 
> no requirement to say what values the letters have.

I see, thanks. That would satisfy the requirements I gave.

However, saying "just like other bugs" somehow seems to 
give the impression that there would be many bugs that 
could satisfy the requirements.

Finding a single example is a very good thing, but it 
would be more convincing if there were more examples.

br,
KK

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#170793

FromDavid Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Date2023-07-15 18:40 +0200
Message-ID<u8ui58$ediv$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#170787
On 15/07/2023 14:29, Kalevi Kolttonen wrote:
> Paul N <gw7rib@aol.com> wrote:
>> I think you could get such a bug if you assume that
>> the letters of the alphabet all have consecutive values.
>> It's true of many computers today, but was not true of
>> the mainframe when I was at university, which used
>> EBCDIC instead of ASCII. As I understand it, this is
>> not "Implementation Defined behaviour" because there is
>> no requirement to say what values the letters have.
> 
> I see, thanks. That would satisfy the requirements I gave.
> 
> However, saying "just like other bugs" somehow seems to
> give the impression that there would be many bugs that
> could satisfy the requirements.
> 
> Finding a single example is a very good thing, but it
> would be more convincing if there were more examples.
> 

A "bug" is just code not doing what you want it to do.  Some kinds of 
bugs have classifications like "integer overflow" that are clearly 
"undefined behaviour" in C standard terms.  They may or may not be 
undefined behaviour for a given C implementation, and can behave 
differently between implementations.  Some are coding bugs that are not 
C UB - maybe you have a pointer to an int, but sometimes it points to 
the wrong int.  And some are specification bugs.

So if you have a specification that says "make the file path by 
concatenating the directory name and file name with a backslash 
character", you have a specification bug that affects *nix systems but 
not Windows systems - and no C language UB in sight.

Or to give you a different example, one embedded development tool I used 
(long ago) worked fine on my older computers, then crashed on newer 
ones.  It turned out that a timing loop overflowed (or had a divide by 
zero - I forget which) on processors faster than about 200 MHz.  There 
was no UB in the code when running on older systems, but it failed on 
newer ones.

Any time you have UB in your code - general UB, meaning the behaviour is 
not defined anywhere - you don't know what will happen.  The C standard 
did attempt to distinguish between "bounded undefined behaviour" and 
"critical undefined behaviour", but since "bounded undefined behaviour" 
can have knock-on effects leading to "critical undefined behaviour", the 
distinction is moot.  The result could be all kinds of odd things - and 
one of the possibilities is always "it works as expected".

The software world is full of examples of "it worked when /I/ tested it" 
bugs.  Some of these will be caused by C standard UB bugs, but others 
are bugs that do not have any UB at the C level.

How you pick your examples of bugs that are not "UB" will depend on 
exactly what you are meaning by "UB" at the time - IMHO, the most 
general definition of "UB" is synonymous with a "bug" because the code 
is doing something other than what was defined in the specification for 
the code.

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#171005

FromTim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com>
Date2023-07-20 19:05 -0700
Message-ID<86bkg6vx1y.fsf@linuxsc.com>
In reply to#170786
Paul N <gw7rib@aol.com> writes:

> On Friday, July 14, 2023 at 6:26:20?PM UTC+1, Kalevi Kolttonen wrote:
>
>> David Brown <david...@hesbynett.no> wrote:
>>
>>>> Your code containing UB can work fine in the environment that you
>>>> use, but it might not work when you compile it elsewhere.
>>>
>>> Just like other bugs.
>>
>> Could you please provide a simple example of such a bug,
>> i.e. it must a bug that is not caused by relying on
>> Implementation Defined behavior or Undefined Behavior?
>
> I think you could get such a bug if you assume that the letters of
> the alphabet all have consecutive values.  It's true of many
> computers today, but was not true of the mainframe when I was at
> university, which used EBCDIC instead of ASCII.  As I understand it,
> this is not "Implementation Defined behaviour" because there is no
> requirement to say what values the letters have.

The values of members of the execution character set are indeed
implementation defined.  Section 5.2.1, paragraph 1.

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#170770

FromKaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com>
Date2023-07-14 21:25 +0000
Message-ID<20230714140259.603@kylheku.com>
In reply to#170745
On 2023-07-14, Kalevi Kolttonen <kalevi@kolttonen.fi> wrote:
> Po Lu <luangruo@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) writes:
>> 
>>> No. Lots of C programs are quite portable. That includes e.g. Linux
>>> kernel, BSD kernels, PostgreSQL, Apache, Postfix, and many, 
>>> many other Unix daemons. PostgreSQL runs not only on Unix
>>> but even on Windows. Possibly OpenLDAP does, too.
>> 
>> Yet none of these programs strictly conform to a Standard.  They are
>> more or less conforming programs, meaning that they are acceptable to
>> the C implementations that they have been ported to.
>
> You could well be right. But invoking UB is something so evil 
> that no C or C++ program must ever do it, meaning that the
> programmers must know enough to avoid it.

This is simply untrue. Undefined behavior is one of the main areas
of vendor extension.

Formally, undefined behavior means that ISO C provides no definition
of behavior. That doesn't mean nobody else provides no definition
of behavior.

A strict interpretation of ISO C is possible under which the use of
any functions that are not in ISO C, and not in the program (i.e. not
defined somewhere in a translation unit of the program) are undefined
behavior. If you use a function called read(), but haven't written
that yourself, and the program translates, links and executes anyway,
that is thanks to undefined behavior.

Merely including a nonstandard header like <unistd.h> is also undefined
behavior. The header is not defined by the program, so there are two
possibilities:

1. The header is not found, which is a diagnosable error.

2. The header is found, necessarily outside of the program, and
replaced by its content. But that content is unknown; it is not
specified by ISO C. The implementor has to document what it is;
e.g. that it provides a POSIX implementation with a <unistd.h>
header. A different implementor, who hates POSIX users and their
programs, could document that #incluce <unistd.h> wipes the disk and
powers down the machine; that would be ISO C conforming.

Secondly, there can be undefined behaviors according to ISO C for
which we can infer a definition anyway, in spite of not having
a documented definition from a vendor.

If we have the source code to a compiler or library (or are otherwise
able to reverse engineer those tools), we can study what the actual
behavior is. We might find that the undefined construct is handled in
such a way that no undefined behavior takes place in the implementation,
and that the construct is handled according to some meaningful rules. If
we freeze that toolchain source code (or else keep monitoring new
releases for regressions), we will get those reliable behaviors.

We can infer definedness of behavior of the object code. Even though
a[i] = i++ is undefined, once we obtain an object file, we can
disassemble it, and find no undefined behavior at the machine level. We
can reverse-engineer it to determine the specification of actual
behavior, and find it to be consistent and reliable.  (And then, we can
change the source code so that it achieves that same actual behavior
(possibly even identical object code) in a defined way: a good strategy
for eliminating ambiguity, while reducing the risk of breaking behaviors
relied on by unknown downstream users.)

We can infer definedness of behavior by certain reasoning which leads
to the conclusion that, certain technolology being what it is, it
is not possible for the behavior to go astray.

For instance, if we know that translation units are compiled in
complete isolation from each other, and if we know that translated
files do not retain any information about type (such as the names of
structures and structure members) then we can conclude that two
structure types which have the same shape in different translation
units are de facto compatible.

If one translation unit has functions that accept a "struct point { int
x, y; }", we can link it with another translation unit which declares
the type as "struct cell { int a, b; }" and calls the functions using
that type. ISO C says it is undefined, but it's not possible to write
a program which demonstrates a problem, under a given object file
and linking technology.

For that matter, we could make it "struct cell { long a, b; }" if
the type int and long have the same representation.  All that matters
is that we don't break the ABI. But the concept of ABI is outside of
ISO C.

Mixed langauge programming is udefined. If you make program with
C modules and Fortran modules, it's neither a well-defined C program,
nor a well-defined Fortran program.

So the topic of undefined behavior is broad and nuanced; it's not
just a simple category of "bad thing that must never happen",


-- 
TXR Programming Language: http://nongnu.org/txr
Cygnal: Cygwin Native Application Library: http://kylheku.com/cygnal
Mastodon: @Kazinator@mstdn.ca

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#170776

Fromkalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen)
Date2023-07-14 22:30 +0000
Message-ID<u8si9j$53qt$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#170770
Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> wrote:
> On 2023-07-14, Kalevi Kolttonen <kalevi@kolttonen.fi> wrote:
>> Po Lu <luangruo@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) writes:
>>> 
>>>> No. Lots of C programs are quite portable. That includes e.g. Linux
>>>> kernel, BSD kernels, PostgreSQL, Apache, Postfix, and many, 
>>>> many other Unix daemons. PostgreSQL runs not only on Unix
>>>> but even on Windows. Possibly OpenLDAP does, too.
>>> 
>>> Yet none of these programs strictly conform to a Standard.  They are
>>> more or less conforming programs, meaning that they are acceptable to
>>> the C implementations that they have been ported to.
>>
>> You could well be right. But invoking UB is something so evil 
>> that no C or C++ program must ever do it, meaning that the
>> programmers must know enough to avoid it.
> 
> This is simply untrue. Undefined behavior is one of the main areas
> of vendor extension.

Oh no! What have I been thinking!

> Formally, undefined behavior means that ISO C provides no definition
> of behavior. 
 
That I knew...

> That doesn't mean nobody else provides no definition
> of behavior.

...and that I did not! So foolish of me, this is terrible.
I have had serious delusions about the proper meaning for many 
years without ever even realizing it.

> A strict interpretation of ISO C is possible under which the use of
> any functions that are not in ISO C, and not in the program (i.e. not
> defined somewhere in a translation unit of the program) are undefined
> behavior. If you use a function called read(), but haven't written
> that yourself, and the program translates, links and executes anyway,
> that is thanks to undefined behavior.

The amount of my ignorance really hurts. Delusions are a horrible
thing to have.

> Merely including a nonstandard header like <unistd.h> is also undefined
> behavior. The header is not defined by the program, so there are two
> possibilities:
> 
> 1. The header is not found, which is a diagnosable error.
> 
> 2. The header is found, necessarily outside of the program, and
> replaced by its content. But that content is unknown; it is not
> specified by ISO C. The implementor has to document what it is;
> e.g. that it provides a POSIX implementation with a <unistd.h>
> header. A different implementor, who hates POSIX users and their
> programs, could document that #incluce <unistd.h> wipes the disk and
> powers down the machine; that would be ISO C conforming.
> 
> Secondly, there can be undefined behaviors according to ISO C for
> which we can infer a definition anyway, in spite of not having
> a documented definition from a vendor.

Got it.

> If we have the source code to a compiler or library (or are otherwise
> able to reverse engineer those tools), we can study what the actual
> behavior is. We might find that the undefined construct is handled in
> such a way that no undefined behavior takes place in the implementation,
> and that the construct is handled according to some meaningful rules. If
> we freeze that toolchain source code (or else keep monitoring new
> releases for regressions), we will get those reliable behaviors.

I am not at all sure whether I got it or not. Not blaming you, though.

> We can infer definedness of behavior of the object code. Even though
> a[i] = i++ is undefined, once we obtain an object file, we can
> disassemble it, and find no undefined behavior at the machine level. We
> can reverse-engineer it to determine the specification of actual
> behavior, and find it to be consistent and reliable.  (And then, we can
> change the source code so that it achieves that same actual behavior
> (possibly even identical object code) in a defined way: a good strategy
> for eliminating ambiguity, while reducing the risk of breaking behaviors
> relied on by unknown downstream users.)

Man, that's too complicated for me.

> We can infer definedness of behavior by certain reasoning which leads
> to the conclusion that, certain technolology being what it is, it
> is not possible for the behavior to go astray.

As a more general conclusion, that makes a bit more sense to me.

> For instance, if we know that translation units are compiled in
> complete isolation from each other, and if we know that translated
> files do not retain any information about type (such as the names of
> structures and structure members) then we can conclude that two
> structure types which have the same shape in different translation
> units are de facto compatible.

Does that mean some kind of isomorphism between the two structure
types?

> If one translation unit has functions that accept a "struct point { int
> x, y; }", we can link it with another translation unit which declares
> the type as "struct cell { int a, b; }" and calls the functions using
> that type. ISO C says it is undefined, but it's not possible to write
> a program which demonstrates a problem, under a given object file
> and linking technology.

Well I guess it can work since the names are not important, it all
depends on the identical shape...?

> For that matter, we could make it "struct cell { long a, b; }" if
> the type int and long have the same representation.  All that matters
> is that we don't break the ABI. But the concept of ABI is outside of
> ISO C.

I got it.

> Mixed langauge programming is udefined. If you make program with
> C modules and Fortran modules, it's neither a well-defined C program,
> nor a well-defined Fortran program.

I got it, too.

> So the topic of undefined behavior is broad and nuanced; it's not
> just a simple category of "bad thing that must never happen",

I am shocked and mildly amused by my horrendous delusions. Your
explanation was indeed broad yet detailed. My deluded view was
that consisting of "bad thing that must never happen". I was
also *way too sure* that my view was correct... So pathetic. 

Many thanks for your time and setting the record straigth.

Why does wisdom take so long to achieve... :-(

br,
KK

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#170777

FromKeith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com>
Date2023-07-14 15:48 -0700
Message-ID<875y6myurr.fsf@nosuchdomain.example.com>
In reply to#170776
kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) writes:
> Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> wrote:
[...
>> This is simply untrue. Undefined behavior is one of the main areas
>> of vendor extension.
>
> Oh no! What have I been thinking!
>
>> Formally, undefined behavior means that ISO C provides no definition
>> of behavior. 
>  
> That I knew...
>
>> That doesn't mean nobody else provides no definition
>> of behavior.
>
> ...and that I did not! So foolish of me, this is terrible.
> I have had serious delusions about the proper meaning for many 
> years without ever even realizing it.
>
>> A strict interpretation of ISO C is possible under which the use of
>> any functions that are not in ISO C, and not in the program (i.e. not
>> defined somewhere in a translation unit of the program) are undefined
>> behavior. If you use a function called read(), but haven't written
>> that yourself, and the program translates, links and executes anyway,
>> that is thanks to undefined behavior.
>
> The amount of my ignorance really hurts. Delusions are a horrible
> thing to have.

[...]

Learning something shouldn't be painful.

-- 
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com
Will write code for food.
void Void(void) { Void(); } /* The recursive call of the void */

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#170778

Fromkalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen)
Date2023-07-14 22:56 +0000
Message-ID<u8sjqj$57ab$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#170777
Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> wrote:
> Learning something shouldn't be painful.

It should not be, but when you realize that you have 
been a delusional fool for several years, you really 
cannot be very proud of that. Not only it, but I
am also guilty of *spreading false information*.

br,
KK

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#170789

FromDavid Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Date2023-07-15 14:41 +0200
Message-ID<u8u45v$cscl$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#170778
On 15/07/2023 00:56, Kalevi Kolttonen wrote:
> Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Learning something shouldn't be painful.
> 
> It should not be, but when you realize that you have
> been a delusional fool for several years, you really
> cannot be very proud of that. Not only it, but I
> am also guilty of *spreading false information*.
> 

In the C standards, the term "undefined behaviour" is defined as:

"behavior, upon use of a nonportable or erroneous program construct or 
of erroneous data, for which this International Standard imposes no 
requirements"


So extensions to C are undefined behaviour in respect to the C standard, 
but defined behaviour in respect to the implementation.  As far as the 
standard is concerned, and therefore for the C language in general, 
signed integer overflow is undefined behaviour.  However, if you are 
coding for "gcc -fwrapv", then the behaviour is fully defined by the 
implementation.

So "undefined behaviour" can mean "not defined by the C standards", or 
it can also mean "not defined by the C standards, the implementation's 
documentation, and any other standards, manuals, or references relevant 
to the program in question".  It is important to be clear what you mean 
by the term at the time (I am not always good enough at that myself). 
Here in comp.lang.c, the default for all terms is the definition in the 
C standards.  But sometimes the second meaning (or a variation of it) is 
more relevant.

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#170790

Fromkalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen)
Date2023-07-15 12:55 +0000
Message-ID<u8u4vf$cuu1$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#170789
David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:
> So extensions to C are undefined behaviour in respect to the C standard, 
> but defined behaviour in respect to the implementation.  As far as the 
> standard is concerned, and therefore for the C language in general, 
> signed integer overflow is undefined behaviour.  However, if you are 
> coding for "gcc -fwrapv", then the behaviour is fully defined by the 
> implementation.

Right, and that is precisely what I did not realize before. My
simplistic "understanding" was that UB is always something that
will produce results that are, well, not guaranteed to be one 
way or the other.

Relaying on Implementation Defined behaviour can of course 
be perfectly acceptable as long as you do it consciously and
document it somehow.

br,
KK

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#170794

FromDavid Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Date2023-07-15 18:46 +0200
Message-ID<u8uihh$ediv$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#170790
On 15/07/2023 14:55, Kalevi Kolttonen wrote:
> David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:
>> So extensions to C are undefined behaviour in respect to the C standard,
>> but defined behaviour in respect to the implementation.  As far as the
>> standard is concerned, and therefore for the C language in general,
>> signed integer overflow is undefined behaviour.  However, if you are
>> coding for "gcc -fwrapv", then the behaviour is fully defined by the
>> implementation.
> 
> Right, and that is precisely what I did not realize before. My
> simplistic "understanding" was that UB is always something that
> will produce results that are, well, not guaranteed to be one
> way or the other.

That definition is correct.  The only question is about where the 
guarantees come from.  The C standard may not guarantee what happens if 
you try to dereference a null pointer, but perhaps the OS you are 
running on does - then it is UB as far as the C standard is concerned, 
but not UB for your target platform.  (A compiler for that OS may still 
view it as UB for error checking and/or optimisation purposes even if 
the OS defines the behaviour.)

> 
> Relaying on Implementation Defined behaviour can of course
> be perfectly acceptable as long as you do it consciously and
> document it somehow.
> 

Yes.

Often the requirement documentation can be implicit, if it is reasonable 
enough.  For example, if you want to have an 8-bit unsigned integer, 
just use the type "uint8_t" - the code will fail to compile if used on 
an implementation that does not have 8-bit types.  But if you have some 
needs that are less common, make them explicit - and, if possible, have 
compile-time checks (static assertions or pre-processor checks).


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#170795

Fromkalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen)
Date2023-07-15 17:28 +0000
Message-ID<u8ul00$ekod$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#170794
David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:
> On 15/07/2023 14:55, Kalevi Kolttonen wrote:
>> David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:
>>> So extensions to C are undefined behaviour in respect to the C standard,
>>> but defined behaviour in respect to the implementation.  As far as the
>>> standard is concerned, and therefore for the C language in general,
>>> signed integer overflow is undefined behaviour.  However, if you are
>>> coding for "gcc -fwrapv", then the behaviour is fully defined by the
>>> implementation.
>> 
>> Right, and that is precisely what I did not realize before. My
>> simplistic "understanding" was that UB is always something that
>> will produce results that are, well, not guaranteed to be one
>> way or the other.
> 
> That definition is correct.  The only question is about where the 
> guarantees come from.  The C standard may not guarantee what happens if 
> you try to dereference a null pointer, but perhaps the OS you are 
> running on does - then it is UB as far as the C standard is concerned, 
> but not UB for your target platform.  (A compiler for that OS may still 
> view it as UB for error checking and/or optimisation purposes even if 
> the OS defines the behaviour.)

Yes, it is correct but *only if* you limit to what the C 
standard says, but like you and others have said, if the 
implementation cares about the issue, and provides some 
kind of defined behavior, then my previous understanding 
was wrong.

In other words, I did not know that the implementations
can "override" UB (i.e. UB according to C stardard) and 
turn it into Implementation Defined behavior.

That kind of ignorance is not something to be proud of.

br,
KK

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#170796

FromDavid Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Date2023-07-15 20:20 +0200
Message-ID<u8uo0p$evvo$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#170795
On 15/07/2023 19:28, Kalevi Kolttonen wrote:
> David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:
>> On 15/07/2023 14:55, Kalevi Kolttonen wrote:
>>> David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:
>>>> So extensions to C are undefined behaviour in respect to the C standard,
>>>> but defined behaviour in respect to the implementation.  As far as the
>>>> standard is concerned, and therefore for the C language in general,
>>>> signed integer overflow is undefined behaviour.  However, if you are
>>>> coding for "gcc -fwrapv", then the behaviour is fully defined by the
>>>> implementation.
>>>
>>> Right, and that is precisely what I did not realize before. My
>>> simplistic "understanding" was that UB is always something that
>>> will produce results that are, well, not guaranteed to be one
>>> way or the other.
>>
>> That definition is correct.  The only question is about where the
>> guarantees come from.  The C standard may not guarantee what happens if
>> you try to dereference a null pointer, but perhaps the OS you are
>> running on does - then it is UB as far as the C standard is concerned,
>> but not UB for your target platform.  (A compiler for that OS may still
>> view it as UB for error checking and/or optimisation purposes even if
>> the OS defines the behaviour.)
> 
> Yes, it is correct but *only if* you limit to what the C
> standard says,

No - you are missing the point.

If you are using "undefined behaviour" in the strict sense of the C 
standards, then anything not defined by the C standards is UB, and if 
you try to execute code that has UB, the standards do not give you any 
guarantees about what might happen.

If you are using the term in a more general sense and considering 
behaviours defined and guaranteed by the implementation, target, or 
other documents, then you can safely and confidently execute code that 
is defined by the implementation even if it is not defined by the C 
standards.  But anything whose behaviour is not defined by the 
implementation and relevant documents, has no guarantee about its behaviour.

It's the same thing - it is merely a question of how specific and 
detailed you want to be, and how restrictive you can be about the choice 
of compiler and implementation.


> but like you and others have said, if the
> implementation cares about the issue, 

(Note this is not an "issue" to care about - UB in a language is a good 
thing, as long as you understand it and avoid trying to execute it. 
Many languages gloss over UB and pretend they define everything, but 
they don't - and often they give pointless and counter-productive 
definitions to meaningless code simply so that they can claim to have no 
UB.  UB is really just "garbage in, garbage out".)

> and provides some
> kind of defined behavior, then my previous understanding
> was wrong.
> 
> In other words, I did not know that the implementations
> can "override" UB (i.e. UB according to C stardard) and
> turn it into Implementation Defined behavior.
> 

They can't turn it into "implementation-defined behaviour" - that has a 
specific meaning in C terms.  It means behaviour that the C standards 
say can vary between implementations, but which the implementation must 
document.  Examples include the size of "int" and the character sets.

But anything that the C standard does not define, can be defined by an 
implementation - the C standards say nothing about such things and do 
not require them to be "wrong".  (This is different from things like 
"constraints" and syntax errors - compilers are obliged to follow these 
in conforming modes.  So a conforming compiler cannot have a "long long 
long int" type, or implement a "%" operator on string literals.  It can 
do so in non-conforming modes, of course, where the compiler is free to 
do anything it likes.)

> That kind of ignorance is not something to be proud of.
> 

Ignorance is seldom something to be proud of - but it is not something 
to be ashamed of either.  You fix it by learning.  And they say the 
quickest way to get good answers on the internet is not to ask 
questions, but to post the wrong answers - it has worked for me on many 
occasions!


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#170797

Fromkalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen)
Date2023-07-15 18:42 +0000
Message-ID<u8upba$f3n1$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#170796
David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:
> They can't turn it into "implementation-defined behaviour" - that has a 
> specific meaning in C terms.  It means behaviour that the C standards 
> say can vary between implementations, but which the implementation must 
> document.  Examples include the size of "int" and the character sets.

Thanks, yes, I used the wrong term.

> But anything that the C standard does not define, can be defined by an 
> implementation - 

I guess there is no existing term for that.

> Ignorance is seldom something to be proud of - but it is not something 
> to be ashamed of either.  You fix it by learning.  And they say the 
> quickest way to get good answers on the internet is not to ask 
> questions, but to post the wrong answers - it has worked for me on many 
> occasions!

That is true, but it is also the responsibility of all C 
programmers to know the fundamental principles governing 
how to use the C language properly.

I can tell you that it is not a great feeling to realize that 
you have misunderstood something pretty fundamental for several 
years.

br,
KK

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#171067

FromTim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com>
Date2023-07-22 06:46 -0700
Message-ID<86bkg4ukic.fsf@linuxsc.com>
In reply to#170795
kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) writes:

> In other words, I did not know that the implementations
> can "override" UB (i.e. UB according to C stardard) and
> turn it into Implementation Defined behavior.

The phrasing here is somewhat incorrect.  Undefined behavior
is a specification, not a state of being.  If a particular
construct is specified in the C standard as being undefined
behavior, it is still undefined behavior even if there is an
extension (documented by an implementation of interest) that
gives the construct a well-defined semantics in that
implementation.

Similarly, implementation-defined behavior is a specification,
not a state of being.  Any constructs stated in the C standard
to have ID behavior are always implementation defined, but no
others are, and there is nothing an implementation can do to
change that.  I suggest using "implementation specific", a
term not defined by the C standard, to refer to behavior that
a given implementation specifies but is not (or might not be)
implementation defined.

> That kind of ignorance is not something to be proud of.

Neither is it something to be ashamed of.  We were all
beginners once, even with a long history of programming
experience.  I didn't take an active interest in the ISO C
standard for a decade or so after it was first ratified,
because it wasn't relevant to what I was doing at the
time.  Moreover the terminology used in the C standard
is rather unintuitive, or even counter-intuitive, in some
cases, so some level of misunderstanding isn't surprising.

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#170779

FromPo Lu <luangruo@yahoo.com>
Date2023-07-15 14:12 +0800
Message-ID<s0dttu5ln36.fsf@yahoo.com>
In reply to#170745
kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) writes:

> Po Lu <luangruo@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) writes:
>> 
>>> No. Lots of C programs are quite portable. That includes e.g. Linux
>>> kernel, BSD kernels, PostgreSQL, Apache, Postfix, and many,
>>> many other Unix daemons. PostgreSQL runs not only on Unix
>>> but even on Windows. Possibly OpenLDAP does, too.
>> 
>> Yet none of these programs strictly conform to a Standard.  They are
>> more or less conforming programs, meaning that they are acceptable
>> to
>> the C implementations that they have been ported to.
>
> You could well be right. But invoking UB is something so evil
> that no C or C++ program must ever do it, meaning that the
> programmers must know enough to avoid it.
>
> Since you seem to be confident about your claim, is it possible
> for you to describe what aspects of Postfix are non-corforming
> C code?

Not strictly conforming?  Easy: any code that assumes char is 8 bits
wide, or that int can hold values larger than 32766.

> Speaking of MTAs, Sendmail was/is portable enough so that it runs
> on practically every modern and not-so-modern UNIX. This being
> the case, one could assume that its C code must be very
> standards compliant, no? What do you think?

What exactly is ``standards compliance''?
Mere conformance, or strict conformance?

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#170780

FromKeith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com>
Date2023-07-15 01:05 -0700
Message-ID<871qh9zjke.fsf@nosuchdomain.example.com>
In reply to#170779
Po Lu <luangruo@yahoo.com> writes:
> kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) writes:
>> Po Lu <luangruo@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) writes:
>>>> No. Lots of C programs are quite portable. That includes e.g. Linux
>>>> kernel, BSD kernels, PostgreSQL, Apache, Postfix, and many,
>>>> many other Unix daemons. PostgreSQL runs not only on Unix
>>>> but even on Windows. Possibly OpenLDAP does, too.
>>> 
>>> Yet none of these programs strictly conform to a Standard.  They are
>>> more or less conforming programs, meaning that they are acceptable
>>> to
>>> the C implementations that they have been ported to.
>>
>> You could well be right. But invoking UB is something so evil
>> that no C or C++ program must ever do it, meaning that the
>> programmers must know enough to avoid it.
>>
>> Since you seem to be confident about your claim, is it possible
>> for you to describe what aspects of Postfix are non-corforming
>> C code?
>
> Not strictly conforming?  Easy: any code that assumes char is 8 bits
> wide, or that int can hold values larger than 32766.

32767.

Or any code whose behavior depends on those things.  For example, this:

    #include <stdio.h>
    #include <limits.h>
    int main(void) {
        printf("%d\n", INT_MAX);
    }

is in a sense 100% portable to any hosted implementation, but it's not
strictly conforming.

>> Speaking of MTAs, Sendmail was/is portable enough so that it runs
>> on practically every modern and not-so-modern UNIX. This being
>> the case, one could assume that its C code must be very
>> standards compliant, no? What do you think?
>
> What exactly is ``standards compliance''?
> Mere conformance, or strict conformance?

A "conforming program" is one that is acceptable to a conforming
implementation -- an almost absurdly weak condition.  If there's a C
implementation that accepts Fortran programs as an extension (after
issuing any required diagnostic), then a Forgran program is a
"conforming program", though I doubt that the authors meant the
definition to be quite that loose.

But I think there's an intermediate level of conformance: a "correct
program".

    A program that is correct in all other aspects, operating on correct
    data, containing unspecified behavior shall be a correct program and
    act in accordance with 5.1.2.3.

(This in section 4 of the ISO C standard.)

-- 
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com
Will write code for food.
void Void(void) { Void(); } /* The recursive call of the void */

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#171003

FromTim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com>
Date2023-07-20 18:54 -0700
Message-ID<86jzuuvxk2.fsf@linuxsc.com>
In reply to#170780
Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> writes:

> Po Lu <luangruo@yahoo.com> writes:
>
>> kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) writes:
>>
>>> Po Lu <luangruo@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) writes:
>>>>
>>>>> No.  Lots of C programs are quite portable.  That includes e.g. Linux
>>>>> kernel, BSD kernels, PostgreSQL, Apache, Postfix, and many,
>>>>> many other Unix daemons.  PostgreSQL runs not only on Unix
>>>>> but even on Windows.  Possibly OpenLDAP does, too.
>>>>
>>>> Yet none of these programs strictly conform to a Standard.  They are
>>>> more or less conforming programs, meaning that they are acceptable
>>>> to
>>>> the C implementations that they have been ported to.
>>>
>>> You could well be right.  But invoking UB is something so evil
>>> that no C or C++ program must ever do it, meaning that the
>>> programmers must know enough to avoid it.
>>>
>>> Since you seem to be confident about your claim, is it possible
>>> for you to describe what aspects of Postfix are non-corforming
>>> C code?
>>
>> Not strictly conforming?  Easy: any code that assumes char is 8 bits
>> wide, or that int can hold values larger than 32766.
>
> 32767.
>
> Or any code whose behavior depends on those things.  For example, this:
>
>     #include <stdio.h>
>     #include <limits.h>
>     int main(void) {
>         printf("%d\n", INT_MAX);
>     }
>
> is in a sense 100% portable to any hosted implementation, but it's not
> strictly conforming.
>
>>> Speaking of MTAs, Sendmail was/is portable enough so that it runs
>>> on practically every modern and not-so-modern UNIX.  This being
>>> the case, one could assume that its C code must be very
>>> standards compliant, no?  What do you think?
>>
>> What exactly is ``standards compliance''?
>> Mere conformance, or strict conformance?
>
> A "conforming program" is one that is acceptable to a conforming
> implementation -- an almost absurdly weak condition.  If there's a C
> implementation that accepts Fortran programs as an extension (after
> issuing any required diagnostic), then a Forgran program is a
> "conforming program", though I doubt that the authors meant the
> definition to be quite that loose.
>
> But I think there's an intermediate level of conformance:  a "correct
> program".
>
>     A program that is correct in all other aspects, operating on correct
>     data, containing unspecified behavior shall be a correct program and
>     act in accordance with 5.1.2.3.
>
> (This in section 4 of the ISO C standard.)

Note that a "correct program" can include programs that depend on
unspecified behavior, and on implementation-defined behavior, and
on implementation-specific extensions covering particular cases
of undefined behavior.  There is nothing "incorrect" about
depending on extensions that cover areas of undefined behavior.

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#170781

Fromkalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen)
Date2023-07-15 08:59 +0000
Message-ID<u8tn5n$blno$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#170779
Po Lu <luangruo@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Not strictly conforming?  Easy: any code that assumes 
> char is 8 bits wide, or that int can hold values 
> larger than 32766.

Thanks, I see. I am pretty sure that the latter
is what most programs do.

>> Speaking of MTAs, Sendmail was/is portable enough so that it runs
>> on practically every modern and not-so-modern UNIX. This being
>> the case, one could assume that its C code must be very
>> standards compliant, no? What do you think?
> 
> What exactly is ``standards compliance''?
> Mere conformance, or strict conformance?

The "strict conformance" seems unattainable.

br,
KK

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#170819

FromJames Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu>
Date2023-07-17 02:26 -0400
Message-ID<u92mub$12sng$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#170745
On 7/14/23 09:16, Kalevi Kolttonen wrote:
....
> You could well be right. But invoking UB is something so evil that no
> C or C++ program must ever do it, meaning that the
> programmers must know enough to avoid it.

I've unfortunately had no time to post a response since shortly before
you sent that message. In the time since then, you've been fully
informed about what's wrong with that statement, and acknowledged it.
Despite that fact, I'd still like to post my own response.

The standard defines the term "undefined behavior" as "behavior, upon
use of a nonportable or erroneous program construct or of erroneous
data, for which this document imposes no requirements". That definition
contains two important phrases that are often misunderstood. The most
important is "no requirements" - many people seem to think that UB means
that the program must fail immediately and catastrophically. In reality,
one of the most dangerous ways UB manifests is as your program doing
precisely what you incorrectly assumed it was required to do. What makes
this possibility dangerous is that you don't find out, not even by
careful testing, that your code is incorrect. You won't find out until
you port your code to a different system where the actual behavior is
different.

Another very common form of UB is to do something subtly different from
what you intended it to do, so subtly that you won't notice that it is
different unless you do very careful testing. You won't find out until
you need to make a major presentation to a client.

You don't seem to be suffering from that misconception, you seem
properly scared of UB.

The other tricky phrase is "this document". That's referring to the C
standard. Other documents might impose requirements, but as far as the C
standard is concerned, the code has undefined behavior. That was the
thing you apparently didn't realize, but I gather you're fully aware of
that now.

Something that I don't think has been properly discussed is the
connection between UB and conforming extensions to C. A fully conforming
implementation of C can provide extensions, either conforming or
non-conforming, that generally add features to the C language. A
conforming implementation can add features that radically change the
behavior of your code, so long as those features necessarily involve
code that renders the behavior undefined. The fact that the behavior is
undefined allows the implementation to define the behavior to be
whatever it wants, in order to implement the extension. The most common
way to do this is to make the feature depend upon the use of a keyword
whose name makes it a reserved identifier. For instance, any identifier
that starts with "_" followed by a capital letter is reserved, so for
example, a _OnesComplement keyword could be used to define an integer
type that uses one's complement representation. Until quite recently, it
was allowed for an implementation to specify that a particular type used
that representation, but standard C has never provided a way of
specifying that this be the case.

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#170764

FromKaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com>
Date2023-07-14 20:43 +0000
Message-ID<20230714083843.644@kylheku.com>
In reply to#170722
On 2023-07-14, Kalevi Kolttonen <kalevi@kolttonen.fi> wrote:
> Bart <bc@freeuk.com> wrote:
>> On 13/07/2023 21:30, Kalevi Kolttonen wrote:
>> So the answer is to do constant battle with the Rust Borrow Checker?
>
> I make no recommendations. I just observed the fact that
> in order to write safe C code, you need considerable amount
> of knowledge about the C standards in order to avoid the
> pitfalls. 

The vast majority of it is common sense, like don't try to calculate
out-of-range numbers, or fit out of range numbers into a smaller type.

What's hard in C is writing a large body of code in which you don't make
any accidental mistakes which are obvious if pointed out by someone else
(rather than something you don't know).

Then there is the difficulty of all that manual memory management, and
also explicit concurrency, if you're required to use those.)

Separately from that, what is hard is defending against external inputs,
where it is obvious that there are combinatiosn of inputs that will
cause the program's operations to violate the rules.

For instance, it's quite clumsy to check something as simple as whether
two numbers can be added without overflow in C. Whereas in some
assembly languages, we can just try it and check a flag. Done.
that.

The result is that it's easy to code happy paths in C, and to "document
away" bad inputs as being the caller's or user's problem.

For instance, it's very easy to write a language interpreter in C,
if it's okay for that interpreter to inherit undefined behaviors
of C. (But it usually isn't.)

If we look at the POSIX specification for Awk, it basically waves its
hands in the area of numeric safety. Unless noted otherwise, Awk
expressions just follow C. Situations like division by zero or overflow
are therefore undefined behavior in Awk.

If you're writing an Awk implementation in C, in order to be conforming
to POSIX in the area of arithmetic, you don't have to do anything
special. Your + operator can just pull out some numbers out of the
operand nodes, and blindly hand them down to the C + operator without
any checks. The problem has been punted to the programmer writing the
Awk script.

This is the sort of thing that Rust is striking at: to be able
to write programs with happy paths in which there is implicit safety 
for the unhappy inputs.

Problem is we already have plenty of languages which do that, that
are nice to program in and efficient. That's why Rust needs this
marketing positioning as a C and C++ replacement. It's not a compelling
replacement for anything managed, especially if it has a decent
compiler. You will not convince users of managed languages that it's bad
to be able to send an object anywhere in a program, and have multiple
references to it.

I don't believe there is a large application area where problems are so
simple that some primitive single-owner memory management is good
enough, yet we cannot use a nice garbage collected language.  And even
in that area, we have to consider the alternative of using two
languages: a nice managed language, with small amount of C (that's
easy to develop and get right).

-- 
TXR Programming Language: http://nongnu.org/txr
Cygnal: Cygwin Native Application Library: http://kylheku.com/cygnal
Mastodon: @Kazinator@mstdn.ca

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