Re: Hex string literals (was Re: C23 thoughts and opinions)

From	Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.c
Subject	Re: Hex string literals (was Re: C23 thoughts and opinions)
Date	2024-06-18 15:00 -0700
Organization	None to speak of
Message-ID	<87frt9zzbm.fsf@nosuchdomain.example.com> (permalink)
References	(16 earlier) <87v82b43h6.fsf@nosuchdomain.example.com> <87iky830v7.fsf_-_@nosuchdomain.example.com> <v4p0dv$jeb2$1@dont-email.me> <87cyof14rd.fsf@nosuchdomain.example.com> <v4s3i8$1cjdr$1@dont-email.me>

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David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> writes:
> On 18/06/2024 02:19, Keith Thompson wrote:
[...]
>> I forgot about digit separators.
>> C23 adds the option to use apostrophes as separators in numeric
>> constants: 123'456'789 or 0xdead'beef, for example.  (This is
>> borrowed from C++.  Commas are more commonly used in real life,
>> at least in my experience, but that wouldn't work given the other
>> meanings of commas.)
>
> Commas would be entirely unsuitable here, since half the world uses
> decimal commas rather than decimal points.  I think underscores are a 
> nicer choice, used by many languages, but C++ could not use
> underscores due to their use in user-defined literals, and C followed
> C++.

C already uses '.' as the decimal point, though half the world uses ','.
That's already US-centric.  ',' is unusable as a digit separator because
`123,456` already has any of several meanings, depending on the context.
If it weren't for that issue, I think that using ',' as a digit separator
would be no more problematic than using '.' as a decimal point.  And C++
and C23 already use the apostrophe as a digit separator, which is likely
to be jarring to anyone outside Switzerland.

In any case, as discussed, I'm not proposing an ignorable digit
separator for hex string literals.

[...]

> I don't see the benefit here.  This is C - the programmer is expected
> to get the type right, and I think it would be rare to get it wrong
> (or worse wrong than forgetting "unsigned") in a case like this.  So
> the extra type checking here has little or no benefit.  (In general, I
> am a fan of stronger type checking, but it is only important if it
> catches real errors.)
>
> The end result is completely identical to the user - adding
> "hex(true)" makes no difference to the generated code.  Thus it is
> just an implementation detail which the user should not have to deal
> with.

The point isn't to change the generated code.  The point is to let
programmers say more directly what they mean: "Treat the contents
of this file as an array of unsigned char", rather than the existing
"Treat the contents of this file as a sequence of comma-separated
integer constant expressions (which, by the way, I'm going to use
in an initializer for an array of unsigned char)".

(I don't think either of us is going to change our minds on the
esthetics.  And yes, that sentence isn't entirely grammatically
correct.)

-- 
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com
void Void(void) { Void(); } /* The recursive call of the void */

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Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-06-14 14:30 -0700
  Re: C23 thoughts and opinions bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-06-14 23:39 +0100
    Re: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-06-15 19:17 +0200
      Re: C23 thoughts and opinions bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-06-15 20:27 +0100
        Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-06-15 22:39 +0000
          Re: C23 thoughts and opinions bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-06-16 00:20 +0100
            Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-06-16 01:16 +0000
            Re: C23 thoughts and opinions "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-06-16 12:31 -0700
              Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-06-17 00:03 +0000
        Re: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-06-16 16:54 +0200
          Re: C23 thoughts and opinions bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-06-16 20:00 +0100
            Re: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-06-17 10:49 +0200
            Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-06-17 13:18 +0300
  Re: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-06-15 17:58 +0200
    Re: C23 thoughts and opinions Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-06-15 22:37 +0000
      Re: C23 thoughts and opinions David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-06-16 16:55 +0200
  Hex string literals (was Re: C23 thoughts and opinions) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-06-16 16:48 -0700
    Re: Hex string literals (was Re: C23 thoughts and opinions) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-06-17 11:42 +0200
      Re: Hex string literals (was Re: C23 thoughts and opinions) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-06-17 17:19 -0700
        Re: Hex string literals (was Re: C23 thoughts and opinions) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-06-18 04:19 +0000
          Re: Hex string literals (was Re: C23 thoughts and opinions) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-06-17 22:39 -0700
        Re: Hex string literals (was Re: C23 thoughts and opinions) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-06-18 15:54 +0200
          Re: Hex string literals (was Re: C23 thoughts and opinions) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-06-18 15:00 -0700
            Re: Hex string literals (was Re: C23 thoughts and opinions) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-06-19 09:37 +0200
              Re: Hex string literals (was Re: C23 thoughts and opinions) Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2024-06-19 10:17 +0000
                Re: Hex string literals (was Re: C23 thoughts and opinions) Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-06-19 13:44 +0300
                Re: Hex string literals (was Re: C23 thoughts and opinions) bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-06-19 11:57 +0100
                Re: Hex string literals (was Re: C23 thoughts and opinions) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-06-19 13:46 +0000
                Re: Hex string literals (was Re: C23 thoughts and opinions) Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-06-19 18:02 +0300
          Re: Hex string literals (was Re: C23 thoughts and opinions) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-06-19 07:25 +0000
            Re: Hex string literals (was Re: C23 thoughts and opinions) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-06-19 10:49 +0200
              Re: Hex string literals (was Re: C23 thoughts and opinions) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-06-21 07:13 +0000
                Re: Hex string literals (was Re: C23 thoughts and opinions) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-06-21 13:06 +0200
                Re: Hex string literals (was Re: C23 thoughts and opinions) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-06-21 22:48 +0000
                Re: Hex string literals (was Re: C23 thoughts and opinions) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-06-22 13:40 +0200
                Re: Hex string literals (was Re: C23 thoughts and opinions) James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2024-06-21 10:15 -0400
            Re: Hex string literals (was Re: C23 thoughts and opinions) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-06-19 02:32 -0700
      Re: Hex string literals (was Re: C23 thoughts and opinions) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-06-18 04:19 +0000
    Re: Hex string literals (was Re: C23 thoughts and opinions) Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2024-06-17 11:41 +0100
      Re: Hex string literals (was Re: C23 thoughts and opinions) Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2024-06-17 14:57 +0100
      Re: Hex string literals (was Re: C23 thoughts and opinions) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-06-17 18:57 -0700
        Re: Hex string literals (was Re: C23 thoughts and opinions) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-06-18 08:12 +0000
        Re: Hex string literals (was Re: C23 thoughts and opinions) Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2024-06-18 16:14 +0100
    Re: Hex string literals (was Re: C23 thoughts and opinions) bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-06-17 14:21 +0100
      Re: Hex string literals (was Re: C23 thoughts and opinions) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-06-17 19:20 -0700
      Re: Hex string literals (was Re: C23 thoughts and opinions) Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-06-17 22:39 -0700
        Re: Hex string literals (was Re: C23 thoughts and opinions) Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-06-18 12:39 +0300
          Re: Hex string literals (was Re: C23 thoughts and opinions) bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-06-18 11:28 +0100
            Re: Hex string literals (was Re: C23 thoughts and opinions) Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-06-18 11:12 -0700
          Re: Hex string literals (was Re: C23 thoughts and opinions) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-06-18 17:20 +0200
          Re: Hex string literals (was Re: C23 thoughts and opinions) Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-06-18 11:04 -0700
          Re: Hex string literals (was Re: C23 thoughts and opinions) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-06-20 06:51 +0000
      Re: Hex string literals (was Re: C23 thoughts and opinions) Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2024-06-18 09:50 +0000
        Re: Hex string literals (was Re: C23 thoughts and opinions) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-06-18 13:56 +0000
          Re: Hex string literals (was Re: C23 thoughts and opinions) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-06-18 17:21 +0200
            Re: Hex string literals (was Re: C23 thoughts and opinions) Richard Harnden <richard.nospam@gmail.invalid> - 2024-06-18 19:25 +0100
              Re: Hex string literals (was Re: C23 thoughts and opinions) Richard Harnden <richard.nospam@gmail.invalid> - 2024-06-18 19:38 +0100
              Re: Hex string literals (was Re: C23 thoughts and opinions) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-06-21 22:49 +0000

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