Re: transpiling to low level C

From	Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.c
Subject	Re: transpiling to low level C
Date	2024-12-23 20:55 -0800
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<86y105d6jb.fsf@linuxsc.com> (permalink)
References	(8 earlier) <vk9q1p$oucu$1@dont-email.me> <vkb81n$14frj$1@dont-email.me> <20241223134008.000058cf@yahoo.com> <86frmedrof.fsf@linuxsc.com> <87ldw5x68c.fsf@bsb.me.uk>

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Ben Bacarisse <ben@bsb.me.uk> writes:

> Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> writes:
>
>> Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> writes:
>>
>>> On Mon, 23 Dec 2024 09:46:46 +0100
>>> David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:
>>>
>>>> And Tim did not rule out using the standard library,
>>>
>>> Are you sure?
>>
>> I explicitly called out setjmp and longjmp as being excluded.
>> Based on that, it's reasonable to infer the rest of the
>> standard library is allowed.
>>
>> Furthermore I don't think it matters.
>
> Hmm...  I'm puzzled.  Where does the unbounded store come from without
> I/O?  Do you take "C is Turing complete" to mean that there is a
> theoretically possible implementation of C sufficient for any given
> problem instance (rather than for any given problem)?  That's not how
> different models are usually compared, and I think it would run into
> some rather odd theoretical problems.

Sorry, it seems my comment was misleading.  I thought it was
apparent from the rest of my paragraph (not shown in your excerpt)
that my statement was meant as "Furthermore I don't think it matters
if _most_ of the standard library is excluded."  There had been a
mention of printf as being infringing (which in my view is silly,
but never mind that), so I wanted to point out that most of the
standard library is irrelevant, including in particular [f]printf.

> There is a somewhat informal version of "C (with the restrictions you
> have stated) is Turing complete" which just means "you can do anything
> you want provided you don't hit an implementation limit".

Yes, I'm familiar with that, and I knowingly glossed over the
distinction, because I think it's customary, when talking about
Turing Completeness relative to conventional programming languages,
to ignore the finiteness of conventional language models.  I should
have known better with you in the audience.  You got me! :)

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transpiling to low level C Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2024-12-15 00:05 -0300
  Re: transpiling to low level C Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-15 04:31 +0000
    Re: transpiling to low level C Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2024-12-15 07:44 -0300
      Re: transpiling to low level C Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-15 22:22 +0000
        Re: transpiling to low level C Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2024-12-15 20:22 -0300
          Re: transpiling to low level C BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2024-12-16 01:02 -0600
            Re: transpiling to low level C Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2024-12-16 08:17 -0300
            Re: transpiling to low level C bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-12-16 11:46 +0000
            Re: transpiling to low level C Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-16 19:44 +0000
            Re: transpiling to low level C Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-12-16 13:59 -0800
              Re: transpiling to low level C bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-12-16 23:36 +0000
  Re: transpiling to low level C "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-12-14 20:39 -0800
    Re: transpiling to low level C Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2024-12-15 07:49 -0300
      Re: transpiling to low level C "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-12-15 13:01 -0800
        Re: transpiling to low level C "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-02-15 21:01 -0800
          USENET and spam (Was: Re: transpiling to low level C) Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-02-16 10:17 -0300
  Re: transpiling to low level C bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-12-15 11:28 +0000
    Re: transpiling to low level C Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2024-12-15 08:46 -0300
      Re: transpiling to low level C Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2024-12-15 09:13 -0300
  Re: transpiling to low level C Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2024-12-15 20:08 +0100
    Re: transpiling to low level C bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-12-15 21:32 +0000
      Re: transpiling to low level C BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2024-12-15 17:53 -0600
        Re: transpiling to low level C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-12-16 10:36 +0100
        Re: transpiling to low level C Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2024-12-16 08:21 -0300
          Re: transpiling to low level C BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2024-12-17 01:03 -0600
            Re: transpiling to low level C Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2024-12-17 14:55 -0300
              Re: transpiling to low level C Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2024-12-17 14:59 -0300
                Re: transpiling to low level C Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2024-12-17 15:16 -0300
                Re: transpiling to low level C bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-12-17 18:37 +0000
                Re: transpiling to low level C Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2024-12-17 16:07 -0300
                Re: transpiling to low level C bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-12-17 19:42 +0000
                Re: transpiling to low level C BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2024-12-18 12:51 -0600
                Re: transpiling to low level C Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2024-12-18 16:43 -0300
                Re: transpiling to low level C BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2024-12-18 18:27 -0600
                Re: transpiling to low level C bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-12-19 00:35 +0000
                Re: transpiling to low level C BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2024-12-18 23:46 -0600
                Re: transpiling to low level C bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-12-19 11:27 +0000
                Re: transpiling to low level C BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2024-12-19 14:36 -0600
                Re: transpiling to low level C BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2024-12-20 05:10 -0600
                Re: transpiling to low level C Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-23 02:08 +0000
                Re: transpiling to low level C BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2024-12-23 05:15 -0600
              Re: transpiling to low level C BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2024-12-17 13:07 -0600
                Re: transpiling to low level C Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2024-12-17 16:33 -0300
                Re: transpiling to low level C BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2024-12-18 12:51 -0600
                Re: transpiling to low level C Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-21 05:34 +0000
        Re: transpiling to low level C Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-12-16 18:12 +0100
          Re: transpiling to low level C bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-12-16 18:37 +0000
            Re: transpiling to low level C Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-12-16 21:39 +0100
              Re: transpiling to low level C bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-12-16 23:26 +0000
                Re: transpiling to low level C Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-12-16 17:19 -0800
                Re: transpiling to low level C BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2024-12-17 00:40 -0600
                Re: transpiling to low level C bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-12-17 16:17 +0000
                Re: transpiling to low level C Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-12-17 18:18 +0100
                Re: transpiling to low level C antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2024-12-17 18:46 +0000
                Re: transpiling to low level C bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-12-17 22:45 +0000
                Re: transpiling to low level C antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2024-12-18 00:23 +0000
                Re: transpiling to low level C bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-12-18 01:24 +0000
                Re: transpiling to low level C antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2024-12-18 03:51 +0000
                Re: transpiling to low level C Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-12-18 17:26 +0100
                Re: transpiling to low level C Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-12-17 12:13 -0800
                Re: transpiling to low level C Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-12-18 17:19 +0100
                Re: transpiling to low level C Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-12-17 18:29 +0100
          Re: transpiling to low level C Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-12-20 17:28 -0800
            Re: transpiling to low level C Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-12-21 21:31 +0100
              Re: transpiling to low level C Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-12-21 13:51 -0800
                Re: transpiling to low level C Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-12-22 01:22 +0100
                Re: transpiling to low level C Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2025-01-13 08:10 -0800
              Re: transpiling to low level C Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-12-22 00:20 +0200
                Re: transpiling to low level C Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-12-22 01:13 +0100
                Re: transpiling to low level C Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-12-22 02:18 +0200
                Re: transpiling to low level C Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-12-22 01:39 +0100
                Re: transpiling to low level C Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-12-22 03:04 +0200
                Re: transpiling to low level C Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-12-22 03:06 +0100
                Re: transpiling to low level C Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-12-22 17:39 -0800
                Re: transpiling to low level C antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2024-12-23 02:41 +0000
                Re: transpiling to low level C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-12-23 08:43 +0100
                Re: transpiling to low level C BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2024-12-25 00:51 -0600
                Re: transpiling to low level C Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-12-28 09:20 -0800
                Re: transpiling to low level C Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2025-01-04 12:12 -0800
                Re: transpiling to low level C "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-01-04 12:53 -0800
                Re: transpiling to low level C Ben Bacarisse <ben@bsb.me.uk> - 2025-01-05 11:18 +0000
                Re: transpiling to low level C James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2025-01-05 12:04 -0500
                Re: transpiling to low level C Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2025-01-07 21:38 -0800
                Re: transpiling to low level C James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2024-12-21 22:17 -0500
                Re: transpiling to low level C Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-12-22 19:51 +0100
                Re: transpiling to low level C Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2025-06-06 11:50 -0700
                Re: transpiling to low level C Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-12-23 13:02 -0800
                Re: transpiling to low level C "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-12-23 13:25 -0800
                Re: transpiling to low level C "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-12-23 15:50 -0800
              Re: transpiling to low level C antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2024-12-22 06:01 +0000
                Re: transpiling to low level C Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-12-22 11:22 +0200
                Re: transpiling to low level C bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-12-22 11:35 +0000
                Re: transpiling to low level C Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-12-22 10:38 -0800
                Re: transpiling to low level C antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2024-12-22 19:44 +0000
                Re: transpiling to low level C Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2025-01-04 11:18 -0800
                Re: transpiling to low level C Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-12-22 20:41 +0100
                Re: transpiling to low level C Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-12-23 00:20 +0200
                Re: transpiling to low level C scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-12-23 15:41 +0000
                Re: transpiling to low level C bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-12-23 15:51 +0000
                Re: transpiling to low level C Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-12-23 18:05 +0200
                Re: transpiling to low level C Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-12-23 14:05 -0800
                Re: transpiling to low level C antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2024-12-22 23:29 +0000
                Re: transpiling to low level C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-12-23 09:46 +0100
                Re: transpiling to low level C bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-12-23 11:35 +0000
                Re: transpiling to low level C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-12-23 13:18 +0100
                Re: transpiling to low level C Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-12-23 13:40 +0200
                Re: transpiling to low level C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-12-23 13:24 +0100
                Re: transpiling to low level C Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-12-23 13:18 -0800
                Re: transpiling to low level C Ben Bacarisse <ben@bsb.me.uk> - 2024-12-24 00:41 +0000
                Re: transpiling to low level C Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-12-23 20:55 -0800
                Re: transpiling to low level C BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2024-12-25 03:41 -0600
                Re: transpiling to low level C BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2024-12-25 15:43 -0600
                Re: transpiling to low level C Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-12-28 09:24 -0800
                Re: transpiling to low level C BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2024-12-28 13:59 -0600
                Re: transpiling to low level C Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-12-31 04:57 -0800
                Re: transpiling to low level C "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-12-23 13:28 -0800
                Re: transpiling to low level C Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-12-23 14:00 -0800
              Re: transpiling to low level C Ben Bacarisse <ben@bsb.me.uk> - 2024-12-22 14:19 +0000
                Re: transpiling to low level C Ben Bacarisse <ben@bsb.me.uk> - 2024-12-22 15:30 +0000
              Re: transpiling to low level C Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2024-12-22 21:45 +0000
                Re: transpiling to low level C bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-12-22 23:22 +0000
                Re: transpiling to low level C Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2024-12-22 23:47 +0000
                Re: transpiling to low level C Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-12-22 17:22 -0800
        Re: transpiling to low level C Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-16 21:23 +0000
          Re: transpiling to low level C Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-12-17 11:16 +0200
          Re: transpiling to low level C bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-12-17 12:04 +0000
            Re: transpiling to low level C BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2024-12-17 12:51 -0600
              Re: transpiling to low level C bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-12-18 12:08 +0000
                Re: transpiling to low level C BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2024-12-18 12:50 -0600
                Re: transpiling to low level C bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-12-18 23:37 +0000
            Re: transpiling to low level C Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-17 19:40 +0000
              Re: transpiling to low level C bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-12-17 19:45 +0000
                Re: transpiling to low level C Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-17 22:25 +0000
                Re: transpiling to low level C bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-12-17 22:55 +0000
                Re: transpiling to low level C Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-18 05:55 +0000
                Re: transpiling to low level C bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2024-12-19 00:32 +0000
    Re: transpiling to low level C Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-16 21:22 +0000
      Re: transpiling to low level C Rosario19 <Ros@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-26 13:16 +0100
  Re: transpiling to low level C User One <noreply@invalid.com> - 2025-02-09 17:51 +0000
    Re: transpiling to low level C "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-02-09 12:43 -0800

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