Re: "Why the C Language Will Never Stop You from Making Mistakes" by JeanHeyd Meneide

From	Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.c
Subject	Re: "Why the C Language Will Never Stop You from Making Mistakes" by JeanHeyd Meneide
Date	2020-08-24 16:58 -0700
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<868se3bnpe.fsf@linuxsc.com> (permalink)
References	<rh1du1$q82$1@dont-email.me> <877du33by4.fsf@nosuchdomain.example.com>

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Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> writes:

> [Cross-post to comp.lang.c++ removed]
>
> Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> "Why the C Language Will Never Stop You from Making Mistakes" by
>> JeanHeyd Meneide
>>
>> https://thephd.github.io/your-c-compiler-and-standard-library-will-not-help-you
>>
>> "Short answer:  because we said so."
>>
>> Yup.
>>
>> "The C Language"
>>
>> "Or, as I like to call it, ?The Type Safety Is For Losers
>> Language?. Of course, that?s a mouthful, so ?C?  will have to do.  You
>> may be wondering why I would call a language like C as having no type
>> safety."
>>
>> Cool, them are fighting words !
>>
>> Oh wait, he is correct.
>
> He uses this example:
>
>     struct Meow* p_cat = (struct Meow*)malloc(sizeof(struct Meow));
>     struct Bark* p_dog = p_cat;
>
> and says:
>
>     Yes, two entirely unrelated pointer types can be set to one another
>     in standards-conforming C.  Most compilers warn, but it is
>     standards-conforming to accept this code unless you crank up the
>     -Werror -Wall -Wpedantic etc.  etc.  etc.
>
> Of course the initialization of p_dog is a constraint violation.  There
> is no implicit conversion between incompatible pointer types (other than
> the special case of void*).
>
> There is a valid point here, that many compilers in their default
> configurations will allow the initialization with a non-fatal
> warning, but "constraint violation" is as close as C gets to saying
> something is illegal (aside from #error).  (He does acknowledge
> that it's a constraint violation, but he doesn't seem to think
> that's terribly significant.)
>
> There is a valid point here, that C's requirements for diagnostic
> are rather weak, but most or all compilers do provide options to
> enforce the rules strictly, and I think most production code is
> written to follow the rules.
>
> C isn't nearly as lax as he implies it is.
>
> Casting the result of malloc is also disturbing.
>
> Apparently the author is now the Project Editor for the ISO C
> Committee.  I am concerned.

I share your reactions.  IMO he is not a suitable choice
for ISO C project editor.

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"Why the C Language Will Never Stop You from Making Mistakes" by JeanHeyd Meneide Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2020-08-12 13:54 -0500
  Re: "Why the C Language Will Never Stop You from Making Mistakes" by JeanHeyd Meneide Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-08-12 12:23 -0700
    Re: "Why the C Language Will Never Stop You from Making Mistakes" by JeanHeyd Meneide Elijah Stone <elronnd@elronnd.net> - 2020-08-12 15:05 -0700
      Re: "Why the C Language Will Never Stop You from Making Mistakes" by JeanHeyd Meneide Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2020-08-12 19:15 -0400
        Re: "Why the C Language Will Never Stop You from Making Mistakes" by JeanHeyd Meneide Philipp Klaus Krause <pkk@spth.de> - 2020-08-13 10:36 +0200
          Re: "Why the C Language Will Never Stop You from Making Mistakes" by JeanHeyd Meneide Poprocks <please@replytogroup.com> - 2020-08-13 14:23 +0000
            What do when -Werror gets in your way (Was: "Why the C Language Will Never Stop You from Making Mistakes") by JeanHeyd Meneide gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2020-08-13 14:49 +0000
            Re: "Why the C Language Will Never Stop You from Making Mistakes" by JeanHeyd Meneide Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-09-01 07:37 -0700
              Re: "Why the C Language Will Never Stop You from Making Mistakes" by JeanHeyd Meneide David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-09-01 17:36 +0200
          Re: "Why the C Language Will Never Stop You from Making Mistakes" by JeanHeyd Meneide Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-09-01 07:33 -0700
        Re: "Why the C Language Will Never Stop You from Making Mistakes" by JeanHeyd Meneide Elijah Stone <elronnd@elronnd.net> - 2020-08-13 23:25 -0700
        Re: "Why the C Language Will Never Stop You from Making Mistakes" by JeanHeyd Meneide Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-09-01 07:22 -0700
      Re: "Why the C Language Will Never Stop You from Making Mistakes" by JeanHeyd Meneide John Forkosh <forkosh@panix.com> - 2020-08-13 01:15 +0000
        Re: "Why the C Language Will Never Stop You from Making Mistakes" by JeanHeyd Meneide Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-08-12 18:42 -0700
          Re: "Why the C Language Will Never Stop You from Making Mistakes" by JeanHeyd Meneide John Forkosh <forkosh@panix.com> - 2020-08-13 06:15 +0000
            Re: "Why the C Language Will Never Stop You from Making Mistakes" by JeanHeyd Meneide Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-08-12 23:23 -0700
              Re: "Why the C Language Will Never Stop You from Making Mistakes" by JeanHeyd Meneide John Forkosh <forkosh@panix.com> - 2020-08-13 06:44 +0000
                Re: "Why the C Language Will Never Stop You from Making Mistakes" by JeanHeyd Meneide Poprocks <please@replytogroup.com> - 2020-08-15 22:51 +0000
                Re: "Why the C Language Will Never Stop You from Making Mistakes" by JeanHeyd Meneide Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2020-08-15 19:41 -0400
                Re: "Why the C Language Will Never Stop You from Making Mistakes" by JeanHeyd Meneide Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-08-16 02:02 +0100
                Re: "Why the C Language Will Never Stop You from Making Mistakes" by JeanHeyd Meneide John Forkosh <forkosh@panix.com> - 2020-08-16 05:47 +0000
                Re: "Why the C Language Will Never Stop You from Making Mistakes" by JeanHeyd Meneide Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-08-16 12:03 +0100
                Kinda by definition... (Was: "Why the C Language Will Never Stop You from Making Mistakes" by JeanHeyd Meneide) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2020-08-16 11:49 +0000
                Re: "Why the C Language Will Never Stop You from Making Mistakes" by JeanHeyd Meneide James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2020-08-16 05:33 -0700
                Re: "Why the C Language Will Never Stop You from Making Mistakes" by JeanHeyd Meneide John Forkosh <forkosh@panix.com> - 2020-08-17 06:27 +0000
                Re: "Why the C Language Will Never Stop You from Making Mistakes" by JeanHeyd Meneide Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2020-08-16 09:12 -0400
              Re: "Why the C Language Will Never Stop You from Making Mistakes" by JeanHeyd Meneide Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2020-08-13 07:38 -0400
                Re: "Why the C Language Will Never Stop You from Making Mistakes" by JeanHeyd Meneide James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2020-08-13 09:33 -0400
                Re: "Why the C Language Will Never Stop You from Making Mistakes" by JeanHeyd Meneide Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2020-08-14 10:50 -0400
                Re: "Why the C Language Will Never Stop You from Making Mistakes" by JeanHeyd Meneide James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2020-08-14 12:39 -0400
                Re: "Why the C Language Will Never Stop You from Making Mistakes" by JeanHeyd Meneide Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2020-08-14 16:53 -0400
                Re: "Why the C Language Will Never Stop You from Making Mistakes" by JeanHeyd Meneide James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2020-08-14 19:49 -0400
                Re: "Why the C Language Will Never Stop You from Making Mistakes" by JeanHeyd Meneide Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-08-15 02:31 -0700
                Re: "Why the C Language Will Never Stop You from Making Mistakes" by JeanHeyd Meneide James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2020-08-15 16:10 -0700
                Re: "Why the C Language Will Never Stop You from Making Mistakes" by JeanHeyd Meneide Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2020-08-16 09:25 -0400
                Re: "Why the C Language Will Never Stop You from Making Mistakes" by JeanHeyd Meneide Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-08-16 10:50 -0700
                Re: "Why the C Language Will Never Stop You from Making Mistakes" by JeanHeyd Meneide James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2020-08-16 15:40 -0400
                Re: "Why the C Language Will Never Stop You from Making Mistakes" by JeanHeyd Meneide Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2020-08-16 19:39 -0400
                Re: "Why the C Language Will Never Stop You from Making Mistakes" by JeanHeyd Meneide James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2020-08-16 21:12 -0400
                Re: "Why the C Language Will Never Stop You from Making Mistakes" by JeanHeyd Meneide Richard Harnden <richard.nospam@gmail.com> - 2020-08-18 08:47 +0100
                Re: "Why the C Language Will Never Stop You from Making Mistakes" by JeanHeyd Meneide James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2020-08-18 08:26 -0400
                Re: "Why the C Language Will Never Stop You from Making Mistakes" by JeanHeyd Meneide Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-08-28 08:10 -0700
              Re: "Why the C Language Will Never Stop You from Making Mistakes" by JeanHeyd Meneide gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2020-08-13 12:48 +0000
            Re: "Why the C Language Will Never Stop You from Making Mistakes" by JeanHeyd Meneide John Bode <jfbode1029@gmail.com> - 2020-08-13 09:46 -0700
      Re: "Why the C Language Will Never Stop You from Making Mistakes" by JeanHeyd Meneide Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2020-08-13 06:14 +0000
        Re: "Why the C Language Will Never Stop You from Making Mistakes" by JeanHeyd Meneide Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-09-01 06:27 -0700
    Re: "Why the C Language Will Never Stop You from Making Mistakes" by JeanHeyd Meneide Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@gmail.com> - 2020-08-13 01:19 +0300
      Re: "Why the C Language Will Never Stop You from Making Mistakes" by JeanHeyd Meneide Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-08-12 16:18 -0700
    Re: "Why the C Language Will Never Stop You from Making Mistakes" by JeanHeyd Meneide Scott Newman <scott69@gmail.com> - 2020-08-13 09:25 +0200
      Re: "Why the C Language Will Never Stop You from Making Mistakes" by JeanHeyd Meneide Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-08-13 00:41 -0700
        Re: "Why the C Language Will Never Stop You from Making Mistakes" by JeanHeyd Meneide Scott Newman <scott69@gmail.com> - 2020-08-13 12:53 +0200
          Re: "Why the C Language Will Never Stop You from Making Mistakes" by JeanHeyd Meneide Richard Harnden <richard.nospam@gmail.com> - 2020-08-13 12:52 +0100
            Re: "Why the C Language Will Never Stop You from Making Mistakes" by JeanHeyd Meneide David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-08-13 15:17 +0200
          Re: "Why the C Language Will Never Stop You from Making Mistakes" by JeanHeyd Meneide Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-08-13 10:38 -0700
            Re: "Why the C Language Will Never Stop You from Making Mistakes" by JeanHeyd Meneide Scott Newman <scott69@gmail.com> - 2020-08-13 19:44 +0200
              Re: "Why the C Language Will Never Stop You from Making Mistakes" by JeanHeyd Meneide Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-08-13 19:10 +0100
              Re: "Why the C Language Will Never Stop You from Making Mistakes" by JeanHeyd Meneide Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-08-13 11:42 -0700
                Re: "Why the C Language Will Never Stop You from Making Mistakes" by JeanHeyd Meneide scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-08-14 05:56 +0000
                Re: "Why the C Language Will Never Stop You from Making Mistakes" by JeanHeyd Meneide Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2020-08-14 09:14 +0200
                Re: "Why the C Language Will Never Stop You from Making Mistakes" by JeanHeyd Meneide James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2020-08-14 08:45 -0400
                Re: "Why the C Language Will Never Stop You from Making Mistakes" by JeanHeyd Meneide gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2020-08-14 16:51 +0000
            Re: "Why the C Language Will Never Stop You from Making Mistakes" by JeanHeyd Meneide Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2020-08-15 09:11 +1200
    Re: "Why the C Language Will Never Stop You from Making Mistakes" by JeanHeyd Meneide Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-08-24 16:58 -0700
  Re: "Why the C Language Will Never Stop You from Making Mistakes" by JeanHeyd Meneide Philipp Klaus Krause <pkk@spth.de> - 2020-08-13 10:32 +0200
    Re: "Why the C Language Will Never Stop You from Making Mistakes" by JeanHeyd Meneide Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-08-23 07:04 -0700

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