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Re: sorting Was: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not)

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cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) writes:

> In article <861pgkaje2.fsf@linuxsc.com>,
> Tim Rentsch  <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> wrote:
>
>> cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) writes:
>>
>>> In article <863416xid5.fsf@linuxsc.com>,
>>> Tim Rentsch  <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) writes:
>>>>
>>>>> Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> writes:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mon, 06 Apr 2026 15:13:32 -0700
>>>>>>> Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Obviously what words (or lines) appear can affect the character
>>>>>>>> counts, but that still doesn't change BigO.  By the way you don't
>>>>>>>> say whether you are sorting words or lines.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This sub-thread is about sorting lines with average length of few
>>>>>>> dozens characters, i.e. many times longer than log2(N).  That was
>>>>>>> stated at one of earlier posts.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That has nothing to do with BigO, which is about asymptotic
>>>>>> behavior as N goes to infinity.
>>>>>
>>>>> Honest Big(O) varies length of the key with N.  In practical range
>>>>> key length may be constant, but fixing length gives unrealistic
>>>>> problem for Big(O) analysis:  without varying key length there are
>>>>> finitely many keys and sorting is equivalent to counting how many
>>>>> times each key appears in the input.
>>>>
>>>> There's an important clarification to make here.  There are two
>>>> independent parameters:  N, the number of records to be sorted (a
>>>> record being a character string that is either a word or a line),
>>>> and the (maximum) length of any record, which in the discussion is
>>>> bounded above by a constant.
>>>>
>>>> What is being asked about is the behavior as a function of N as N
>>>> increases without bound.  Of course, theoretically, as the number of
>>>> records increases without bound, eventually the character strings
>>>> being sorted will have to have duplicates.  But long before that
>>>> happens the index variable N will run out of bits.  This property is
>>>> well understood in theoretical computer science, not just in terms
>>>> of how much time is used but how much storage is needed.  In theory
>>>> log N bits are needed just to hold the index pointers.  It is
>>>> customary though, outside of purely theoretical discussions, to
>>>> ignore that and treat the size of an index or pointer variable as
>>>> constant.  In purely theoretical terms no sorting algorithm is
>>>> O(N*log(N)), because just incrementing a pointer takes more than
>>>> O(1) operations.  Surely the discussions in Knuth's books take such
>>>> things into consideration.
>>>
>>> If by "Knuth's books" you're referring to TAOCP, then he does
>>> not seem to give it too much attention.  [...]
>>
>> In most of the chapter on Sorting, TAOCP uses the number of
>> comparisons as the basis of comparison.  But not everywhere
>> in the chapter.
>
> It seems like I pointed out a few places where he acknowledges
> a more complex picture.  Are there other places to which you are
> referring?
>
>> My statement was not meant to be limited to the discussion of
>> Sorting.
>
> What do you think I was referring to, exactly?  I was responding
> to your comments about Knuth's books, specifically, and the
> quoted text above, which seems concerned solely with sorting.
>
> As I mentioned, Dasgupta et al _do_ mention that analysis of
> algorithms is more complex than most treatments, because of
> precisely the idea that as things grow, seemingly constant
> operations are no longer constant.  As I mentioned, they did
> this within the context of Fibonacci numbers, not sorting, but
> the point stands.  Since, as you say, your statement was not
> meant to be limited to discussions of sorting, then it seems to
> be supporting what you are saying.
>
>>>> On the practical side, which almost
>>>> always covers discussions that take place in usenet newsgroups,
>>>> these minor theoretical issues are ignored.  Any actul computer in
>>>> the physical universe will never have occasion to process more than
>>>> 2**512 records, due to the limitation of the number of elementary
>>>> particles in the universe, so a 512-bit address (or index value)
>>>> always suffices.
>>>>
>>>> So yes, in theory, the considerations around processing an enormous
>>>> number of values are relevant.  In the practical context of the
>>>> discussion underway here, they aren't.
>>>
>>> Indeed.  As Rob Pike once put it, "Fancy algorithms are slow
>>> when $n$ is small, and $n$ is usually small.  Fancy algorithms
>>> have big constants.  Until you know that $n$ is frequently going
>>> to get big, don't get fancy."
>>
>> Whether the Rob Pike advisory is applicable or not is beside the
>> point.
>
> On the contrary;  I mentioned it because it supports your thesis.
>
>> My comment was about fancy mathematics, not fancy
>> algorithms.  My statement is just as applicable to Tim Sort (one
>> of the fancier sorting algorithms) as it is to Bubble Sort.
>
> There's nothing particularly fancy about it, but that aside, I'm
> honestly not sure what exactly I said that you are (apparently?)
> disagreeing with.
>
> I was responding with a specific statement about Knuth's books,
> a reference to another book in support of your statement, and
> yet another reference to something that Pike had written that,
> again, supports your point.

I read through your comments.  My sense is there are still some
misunderstandings (probably on both sides) but I think it's
probably better just to leave it at that.  Also the discussion
has wandered kind of far afield for comp.lang.c, so in the
interest of courtesy I am stopping here, except to add thank you
for your comments.

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Isn't that beauty ? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2026-03-12 07:24 +0100
  Re: Isn't that beauty ? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2026-03-12 07:26 +0100
  Re: Isn't that beauty ? Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-03-12 09:32 +0100
    Re: Isn't that beauty ? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2026-03-12 11:36 +0100
      Re: Isn't that beauty ? Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou@hotmail.com> - 2026-03-12 20:15 +0100
  Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2026-03-12 10:00 -0400
    Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2026-03-12 15:03 +0100
      Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) tTh <tth@none.invalid> - 2026-03-12 15:27 +0100
        Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2026-03-12 15:34 +0100
    Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2026-03-12 15:13 +0100
      Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2026-03-12 10:43 -0400
        Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2026-03-12 16:10 +0100
          Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2026-03-12 11:22 -0400
            Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2026-03-12 16:25 +0100
              Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2026-03-12 16:25 +0100
            Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2026-03-12 16:48 +0100
              Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou@hotmail.com> - 2026-03-12 20:25 +0100
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2026-03-13 00:57 +0100
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou@hotmail.com> - 2026-03-13 02:19 +0100
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2026-03-13 06:14 +0100
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-03-13 01:48 -0700
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2026-03-13 09:49 +0100
                [OT] AI - questions and answers (was Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not)) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-03-13 10:27 +0100
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-03-13 11:59 -0700
              Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2026-03-12 21:22 -0400
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2026-03-13 06:15 +0100
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2026-03-14 06:48 +0100
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2026-03-14 03:29 -0400
          Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2026-03-12 16:44 +0100
          Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-03-12 17:32 +0000
            Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2026-03-13 00:56 +0100
              Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-03-13 11:54 -0700
            Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2026-03-13 01:14 +0100
          Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2026-03-12 16:18 -0400
            Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2026-03-13 01:06 +0100
            Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2026-03-13 01:27 +0100
              Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2026-03-13 16:11 -0400
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2026-03-14 06:01 +0100
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2026-03-14 01:49 -0400
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2026-03-14 07:23 +0100
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2026-03-14 02:58 -0400
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2026-03-14 07:52 +0100
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2026-03-14 07:53 +0100
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2026-03-14 03:05 -0400
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2026-03-14 08:10 +0100
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2026-03-14 03:17 -0400
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2026-03-14 08:59 +0100
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2026-03-14 09:12 +0100
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-03-14 12:15 +0000
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2026-03-14 14:00 +0100
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2026-03-16 16:43 -0400
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-03-16 20:57 +0000
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2026-03-16 19:07 -0400
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2026-03-17 00:49 +0000
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-03-17 05:21 +0100
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2026-03-18 12:40 -0400
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-03-18 17:06 +0000
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2026-03-18 15:46 -0400
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-03-18 22:14 +0000
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2026-03-19 22:39 +0000
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2026-03-18 16:14 -0400
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2026-03-19 22:42 +0000
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-03-17 14:46 +0000
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Richard Harnden <richard.nospam@gmail.invalid> - 2026-03-16 22:26 +0000
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-03-16 22:35 +0000
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2026-03-16 19:09 -0400
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Richard Harnden <richard.nospam@gmail.invalid> - 2026-03-16 23:17 +0000
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2026-03-16 19:21 -0400
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Richard Harnden <richard.nospam@gmail.invalid> - 2026-03-16 23:34 +0000
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Richard Harnden <richard.nospam@gmail.invalid> - 2026-03-17 00:09 +0000
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2026-03-16 21:45 -0400
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Richard Harnden <richard.nospam@gmail.invalid> - 2026-03-17 10:42 +0000
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-03-17 13:04 +0100
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Richard Harnden <richard.nospam@gmail.invalid> - 2026-03-17 12:17 +0000
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-03-17 12:31 +0000
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2026-03-16 21:27 -0400
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-03-16 22:26 +0000
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2026-03-16 19:41 -0400
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-03-17 00:29 +0000
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-03-17 05:38 +0100
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-03-17 11:47 +0000
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-03-17 13:08 +0100
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-03-17 12:37 +0000
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-03-18 02:40 +0100
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-03-18 11:21 +0200
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-03-18 10:49 +0100
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-03-18 15:10 +0000
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-03-18 21:20 +0000
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-03-18 23:13 +0000
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2026-04-06 13:23 -0700
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-03-18 11:20 +0100
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-03-18 21:57 +0100
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-03-18 22:01 +0100
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-03-19 10:43 +0100
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-03-19 12:23 +0200
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-03-19 15:22 +0100
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-03-19 15:07 +0000
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-03-20 04:16 +0100
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-03-20 02:14 -0700
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-03-20 12:38 +0100
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2026-03-20 13:06 +0100
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-03-20 13:27 +0100
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-03-20 13:22 -0700
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-03-21 02:25 +0100
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2026-03-19 16:13 +0100
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-03-19 17:41 +0200
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-03-20 04:01 +0100
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-03-20 08:35 +0100
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-03-20 12:47 +0100
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-03-20 14:42 +0200
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-03-22 04:39 +0100
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-03-22 08:33 +0200
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2026-03-20 17:10 -0400
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-03-21 02:53 +0100
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2026-03-20 22:35 -0400
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-03-21 14:42 +0000
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-03-22 04:57 +0100
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2026-04-06 12:32 -0700
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-03-22 04:50 +0100
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-03-21 15:39 +0100
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2026-03-22 15:48 -0400
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-03-22 23:04 +0100
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-03-19 13:28 +0000
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-03-20 03:45 +0100
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-03-19 11:19 +0200
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-03-19 10:49 +0100
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-03-19 14:09 +0000
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-03-19 14:49 +0000
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-03-19 17:09 +0200
                sorting Was: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-03-19 17:29 +0200
                Re: sorting Was: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-03-19 18:33 +0000
                Re: sorting Was: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-03-19 21:40 +0200
                Re: sorting Was: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-03-19 23:53 +0000
                Re: sorting Was: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-03-20 00:15 +0000
                Re: sorting Was: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-03-20 05:05 +0100
                Re: sorting Was: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-03-20 12:58 +0200
                Re: sorting Was: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-03-20 12:53 +0100
                Re: sorting Was: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-03-20 13:13 +0100
                Re: sorting Was: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-03-20 13:26 +0100
                Re: sorting Was: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-03-20 15:08 +0200
                Re: sorting Was: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-03-20 13:43 +0000
                Re: sorting Was: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-03-20 15:51 +0200
                Re: sorting Was: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-03-20 14:47 +0100
                Re: sorting Was: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-03-22 02:03 +0200
                Re: sorting Was: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-03-22 04:03 +0100
                Re: sorting Was: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2026-04-06 15:13 -0700
                Re: sorting Was: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-04-07 02:22 +0300
                Re: sorting Was: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2026-04-06 21:00 -0700
                Re: sorting Was: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-04-07 09:37 +0300
                Re: sorting Was: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2026-04-07 21:54 -0700
                Re: sorting Was: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-04-09 16:06 +0000
                Re: sorting Was: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2026-04-11 09:04 -0700
                Re: sorting Was: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-04-11 19:55 +0000
                Re: sorting Was: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-04-07 14:46 +0000
                Re: sorting Was: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2026-04-07 20:04 -0700
                Re: sorting Was: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-04-09 21:15 +0000
                Re: sorting Was: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-04-10 01:31 +0300
                Re: sorting Was: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2026-04-12 06:17 -0700
                Re: sorting Was: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2026-04-11 21:32 -0700
                Re: sorting Was: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-04-12 04:59 +0000
                Re: sorting Was: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2026-04-26 07:29 -0700
                Re: sorting Was: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-04-09 23:33 +0000
                Re: sorting Was: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-04-10 11:35 +0000
                Re: sorting Was: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2026-04-12 07:13 -0700
                Re: sorting Was: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-04-13 20:44 +0000
                Re: sorting Was: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2026-04-25 15:47 -0700
                Re: sorting Was: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-04-27 02:04 +0000
                Re: sorting Was: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2026-04-26 22:27 -0700
                Re: sorting Was: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-04-27 14:41 +0000
                Re: sorting Was: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-03-20 14:01 +0200
                Re: sorting Was: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2026-04-06 13:48 -0700
                Re: sorting Was: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-04-07 01:58 +0300
                Re: sorting Was: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-04-07 01:02 +0100
                Re: sorting Was: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2026-04-07 08:01 -0700
                Re: sorting Was: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-03-19 23:21 +0000
                Re: sorting Was: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2026-04-06 18:37 -0700
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-03-20 04:33 +0100
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-03-20 14:24 +0200
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-03-22 05:06 +0100
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-03-22 09:30 +0200
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2026-04-07 02:12 -0700
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-04-07 14:00 +0300
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2026-04-16 10:23 -0700
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2026-04-07 16:39 -0400
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2026-04-12 11:16 -0700
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2026-03-25 00:45 +0000
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2026-03-17 06:25 +0100
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2026-03-20 01:33 +0000
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2026-03-20 07:42 +0100
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2026-03-20 12:16 +0000
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-03-14 16:22 +0000
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2026-03-14 18:04 +0100
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-03-14 17:39 +0000
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2026-03-14 19:25 +0100
            Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-03-13 00:54 +0000
              Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2026-03-13 00:31 -0400
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2026-03-13 06:24 +0100
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2026-03-13 01:40 -0400
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2026-03-13 01:34 -0400
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-03-13 14:38 +0000
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-03-13 15:31 +0000
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2026-03-15 13:15 -0700
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-03-16 15:18 +0000
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2026-03-23 21:23 -0700
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2026-03-13 18:47 -0400
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2026-03-15 14:38 -0700
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2026-03-13 07:24 +0100
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-03-13 01:51 -0700
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2026-03-13 09:54 +0100
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-03-13 10:29 +0100
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2026-03-13 10:33 +0100
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-03-13 11:57 -0700
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-03-13 11:58 -0700
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-03-13 14:29 +0000
            Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2026-03-13 08:08 +0100
              Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2026-03-13 04:19 -0400
            Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2026-03-13 09:53 +0100
              Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2026-03-13 09:56 +0100
              Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2026-03-13 05:10 -0400
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2026-03-13 10:14 +0100
          Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-03-13 17:32 +0000
            Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2026-03-13 18:44 +0100
              Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-03-13 19:36 +0000
                Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2026-03-14 06:03 +0100
      Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-03-12 16:56 +0000
    Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2026-03-20 23:07 -0700
      Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2026-03-22 16:55 -0400
        Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2026-03-26 20:08 -0700
          Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2026-03-27 00:35 -0400
            Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-03-26 21:53 -0700
            Re: Isn't that beauty ? (no it's not) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2026-03-27 17:03 +0000

csiph-web