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Is C++ suitable for GUI programs?

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  Is C++ suitable for GUI programs? Raymond <mechian31@gmail.com> - 2011-06-23 23:28 -0700
    Re: Is C++ suitable for GUI programs? Werner <werasm@gmail.com> - 2011-06-23 23:54 -0700
      Re: Is C++ suitable for GUI programs? Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2011-06-26 08:58 -0700
        Re: Is C++ suitable for GUI programs? "MikeP" <mp011011@some.org> - 2011-06-28 14:51 -0500
        Re: Is C++ suitable for GUI programs? Werner <werasm@gmail.com> - 2011-06-30 03:46 -0700
        Re: Is C++ suitable for GUI programs? Cholo Lennon <chololennon@hotmail.com> - 2011-06-30 10:31 -0300
    Re: Is C++ suitable for GUI programs? Goran <goran.pusic@gmail.com> - 2011-06-24 00:14 -0700
    Re: Is C++ suitable for GUI programs? Rune Allnor <allnor@tele.ntnu.no> - 2011-06-24 00:22 -0700
    Re: Is C++ suitable for GUI programs? Noah Roberts <dont@email.me> - 2011-06-24 09:29 -0700
      Re: Is C++ suitable for GUI programs? "MikeP" <mp011011@some.org> - 2011-06-25 10:59 -0500
        Re: Is C++ suitable for GUI programs? Noah Roberts <dont@email.me> - 2011-06-27 15:33 -0700
      Re: Is C++ suitable for GUI programs? "MikeP" <mp011011@some.org> - 2011-06-25 11:12 -0500
    Re: Is C++ suitable for GUI programs? "Paul" <pchristor@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-06-24 19:07 +0100
    Re: Is C++ suitable for GUI programs? Andy Champ <no.way@nospam.invalid> - 2011-06-24 21:23 +0100
      Re: Is C++ suitable for GUI programs? Nobody <nobody@nowhere.com> - 2011-06-24 22:06 +0100
      Re: Is C++ suitable for GUI programs? "Chris M. Thomasson" <cristom@charter.net> - 2011-06-24 21:22 -0700
        Re: Is C++ suitable for GUI programs? Andy Champ <no.way@nospam.invalid> - 2011-06-26 23:01 +0100
      Re: Is C++ suitable for GUI programs? Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2011-06-26 20:43 +0000
    Re: Is C++ suitable for GUI programs? Virchanza <virtual@lavabit.com> - 2011-06-28 05:49 -0700
    Re: Is C++ suitable for GUI programs? hanukas <jukka@liimatta.org> - 2011-06-28 06:10 -0700
    Re: Is C++ suitable for GUI programs? Virchanza <virtual@lavabit.com> - 2011-06-28 06:22 -0700
    Re: Is C++ suitable for GUI programs? Lynn McGuire <lmc@winsim.com> - 2011-06-28 11:11 -0500
    Re: Is C++ suitable for GUI programs? Virchanza <virtual@lavabit.com> - 2011-06-29 10:07 -0700
      Re: Is C++ suitable for GUI programs? drew@furrfu.invalid (Drew Lawson) - 2011-06-29 17:49 +0000
    Re: Is C++ suitable for GUI programs? hanukas <jukka@liimatta.org> - 2011-06-30 23:51 -0700

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#7095 — Is C++ suitable for GUI programs?

So I've heard that creating GUI programs in C++ is quite difficult.

I need to implement JPEG with a GUI to select settings and display the 
image.  We're encouraged to use Visual C++ or Java because they're more 
suited to multimedia.  I'm thinking of using C++ (don't know it yet) 
cause it's faster but since the GUI is a big part of it and considering 
how difficult it is... I'm not sure.  I do know Java and some C#.

Would it be better to create a GUI in C# and have C++ to do the processing?

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#7096

On Jun 24, 8:28 am, Raymond <mechia...@gmail.com> wrote:
> So I've heard that creating GUI programs in C++ is quite difficult.
>
> I need to implement JPEG with a GUI to select settings and display the
> image.  We're encouraged to use Visual C++ or Java because they're more
> suited to multimedia.  I'm thinking of using C++ (don't know it yet)
> cause it's faster but since the GUI is a big part of it and considering
> how difficult it is... I'm not sure.  I do know Java and some C#.
>
> Would it be better to create a GUI in C# and have C++ to do the processing?

We use Qt4 and that seems quite easy to work with. For
graphing we use Qwt Graph. I know of other good C++ GUI
libraries that exist too, but we've mainly used Qt.

Regards,

Werner

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#7174

On Jun 24, 9:54 am, Werner <wer...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jun 24, 8:28 am, Raymond <mechia...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > So I've heard that creating GUI programs in C++ is quite difficult.
>
> > I need to implement JPEG with a GUI to select settings and display the
> > image.  We're encouraged to use Visual C++ or Java because they're more
> > suited to multimedia.  I'm thinking of using C++ (don't know it yet)
> > cause it's faster but since the GUI is a big part of it and considering
> > how difficult it is... I'm not sure.  I do know Java and some C#.
>
> > Would it be better to create a GUI in C# and have C++ to do the processing?
>
> We use Qt4 and that seems quite easy to work with. For
> graphing we use Qwt Graph. I know of other good C++ GUI
> libraries that exist too, but we've mainly used Qt.

+1 to that. It is piece of cake to throw fine looking and portable C++
GUI together using Qt tools. It is not too hard to embed a GUI module
that is made with Qt into existing application that has most GUI made
with MFC.

One (pseudo-)issue that i have encountered is that Qt never destroys
some of its singletons so Visual Studio's debugger reports these as
leaked. It can be silenced by turning the leak-detection temporarily
off when the singletons are allocated. Other issue is that the amount
of tinkering that is needed to embed non-Microsoft tools into VS IDE
is growing from version to version. IDE that is losing ability to
integrate tools? Other, well-known free and open source IDEs may pass
Visual Studio that way.

C++/CLI don't look at, it is very sad monster language. The Microsoft
tools often hide that it is C++/CLI and call it "C++ with managed
extensions enabled" and other such nonsense. That makes C++/CLI a good
tool for discrediting C++. C++ is fine, platform neutral language and
has nothing to do with C++/CLI. Take C# when you target .Net as
platform, it wins C++/CLI in all aspects.

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#7215

Öö Tiib wrote:

> C++/CLI don't look at, it is very sad monster language. The Microsoft
> tools often hide that it is C++/CLI and call it "C++ with managed
> extensions enabled" and other such nonsense. That makes C++/CLI a good
> tool for discrediting C++. C++ is fine, platform neutral language and
> has nothing to do with C++/CLI. Take C# when you target .Net as
> platform, it wins C++/CLI in all aspects.

C# is easily decompiled, so if you have any trade secret code, C# is a 
bad choice. 

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#7276

On Jun 26, 5:58 pm, Öö Tiib <oot...@hot.ee> wrote:

> > We use Qt4 and that seems quite easy to work with. For
> > graphing we use Qwt Graph. I know of other good C++ GUI
> > libraries that exist too, but we've mainly used Qt.
>
> +1 to that. It is piece of cake to throw fine looking and portable C++
> GUI together using Qt tools. It is not too hard to embed a GUI module
> that is made with Qt into existing application that has most GUI made
> with MFC.

I can't comment on that. I've often used native windows (win32) for
low level things (mutexes, timers, sockets, serial, threads), but
I've never used it for windows programming, except to receive
windows messages:

::CreateWindow( MSGWINNAME, "", WS_DISABLED, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0x0, 0, 0,
0 );

> One (pseudo-)issue that i have encountered is that Qt never destroys
> some of its singletons so Visual Studio's debugger reports these as
> leaked. It can be silenced by turning the leak-detection temporarily
> off when the singletons are allocated. Other issue is that the amount
> of tinkering that is needed to embed non-Microsoft tools into VS IDE
> is growing from version to version. IDE that is losing ability to
> integrate tools? Other, well-known free and open source IDEs may pass
> Visual Studio that way.

Yes, I use QtCreator with mingw to setup/compile my project and I
(at this moment) enjoy editing in Eclipse.

> C++/CLI don't look at, it is very sad monster language.

C++/CLI... What's that? ;-). No, seriously - I can't comment on
something that I've never even remotely looked at. If I would
consider another language, it would be Java, but simply because
I can't seem to buy a PC or notebook (aside from a mac) without
a pre-installed OS anymore (and I regard that "skelm" -
unethical). Apart from that, If I buy software(especially the OS)
I expect it to outlast it's installbase. MS licensing
prohibits this, not? "Skelms!" ;-).

But that is a discussion for a different group/different day...

Regards,

Werner

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#7291

On 26/06/2011 12:58, Öö Tiib wrote:
> On Jun 24, 9:54 am, Werner<wer...@gmail.com>  wrote:
>> On Jun 24, 8:28 am, Raymond<mechia...@gmail.com>  wrote:
>>
>>> So I've heard that creating GUI programs in C++ is quite difficult.
>>
>>> I need to implement JPEG with a GUI to select settings and display the
>>> image.  We're encouraged to use Visual C++ or Java because they're more
>>> suited to multimedia.  I'm thinking of using C++ (don't know it yet)
>>> cause it's faster but since the GUI is a big part of it and considering
>>> how difficult it is... I'm not sure.  I do know Java and some C#.
>>
>>> Would it be better to create a GUI in C# and have C++ to do the processing?
>>
>> We use Qt4 and that seems quite easy to work with. For
>> graphing we use Qwt Graph. I know of other good C++ GUI
>> libraries that exist too, but we've mainly used Qt.
>
> +1 to that. It is piece of cake to throw fine looking and portable C++
> GUI together using Qt tools. It is not too hard to embed a GUI module
> that is made with Qt into existing application that has most GUI made
> with MFC.
>
> One (pseudo-)issue that i have encountered is that Qt never destroys
> some of its singletons so Visual Studio's debugger reports these as
> leaked. It can be silenced by turning the leak-detection temporarily
> off when the singletons are allocated. Other issue is that the amount
> of tinkering that is needed to embed non-Microsoft tools into VS IDE
> is growing from version to version. IDE that is losing ability to
> integrate tools? Other, well-known free and open source IDEs may pass
> Visual Studio that way.
>


> C++/CLI don't look at, it is very sad monster language. The Microsoft
> tools often hide that it is C++/CLI and call it "C++ with managed
> extensions enabled" and other such nonsense. That makes C++/CLI a good
> tool for discrediting C++.

I don't agree. C++/CLI is a very good tool (in contrast with the 
old/deprecated "Managed C++") to migrate code from native C++ to .Net 
universe.

> C++ is fine, platform neutral language and
> has nothing to do with C++/CLI.

Yeah, C++/CLI is not C++. They are distinct languages, but they have a 
lot of things in common.

> Take C# when you target .Net as
> platform, it wins C++/CLI in all aspects.
>

Not in all aspects. If someone needs a bridge between native and managed 
world, C++/CLI is by far the best option. Also C++/CLI has a better 
compiler than C#.


Regards


-- 
Cholo Lennon
Bs.As.
ARG

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#7097

On Jun 24, 8:28 am, Raymond <mechia...@gmail.com> wrote:
> So I've heard that creating GUI programs in C++ is quite difficult.
>
> I need to implement JPEG with a GUI to select settings and display the
> image.  We're encouraged to use Visual C++ or Java because they're more
> suited to multimedia.

Visual C++ is C++ language implementation _and_ additional libraries
_and_ development environment (editor, debugger, project management,
code navigation, source control...) So Visual C++ __is__ C++. It's
suited to multimedia because you have libraries for it that you can
use. But you have libraries for other C++ toolchains, too.

In other words, there's nothing in Visual C++ that inherently makes it
"suited to multimedia".

>  I'm thinking of using C++ (don't know it yet)
> cause it's faster but since the GUI is a big part of it and considering
> how difficult it is... I'm not sure.  I do know Java and some C#.

You don't know C++, but you say it's faster (than... I don't know
what)? Don't do suppose like that. Sure, __chances are__ that some C++
code will be faster when doing X than e.g. Java code, but in __no
way__ is this implied. In fact, if you have e.g. a good JPEG
processing library in Java, changes are, it will be faster, more
comprehensive and with less bugs than something I or you would come up
with C++.

> Would it be better to create a GUI in C# and have C++ to do the processing?

Do you know how to integrate them? If so, OK. If not, how will you do
it?

If you already know Java (or anything else), and are not sure e.g.
about C++, and you want good results, tend to stick with what you
know. Too much venturing into unknown is risky, and I feel thet's
exactly what you're doing here.

Goran.

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#7098

On Jun 24, 8:28 am, Raymond <mechia...@gmail.com> wrote:

> So I've heard that creating GUI programs in C++ is quite difficult.

Define 'difficult'.

One main issue to consider is the availability of tools, with
documentation, to do the job. There are other toolchains for
making GUIs, that are far more popular than C++. Which means
these other tools are easier to come by, documentation is
easier to find, and help is easier to get, than if you
choose to use C++.

Whether that is a difficult property of the *language* C++
is a matter of semantics (I can't think of anything you can do
with another language, that you can not do with C++); it might
certainly be a difficulty when *working* with C++.

Rune

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#7122

On 6/23/2011 11:28 PM, Raymond wrote:
> So I've heard that creating GUI programs in C++ is quite difficult.
>
> I need to implement JPEG with a GUI to select settings and display the
> image. We're encouraged to use Visual C++ or Java because they're more
> suited to multimedia. I'm thinking of using C++ (don't know it yet)
> cause it's faster but since the GUI is a big part of it and considering
> how difficult it is... I'm not sure. I do know Java and some C#.
>
> Would it be better to create a GUI in C# and have C++ to do the processing?

The GUI libraries that come with Visual C++ for the C++ language are 
VERY primitive.  They are ... tedious to work with.

If you use the C++/CLI language then you have access to the .Net UI 
library.  It's more modern.

You also have the option of 3rd party libraries like Qt or Wx.

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#7156

Noah Roberts wrote:
> On 6/23/2011 11:28 PM, Raymond wrote:
>> So I've heard that creating GUI programs in C++ is quite difficult.
>>
>> I need to implement JPEG with a GUI to select settings and display
>> the image. We're encouraged to use Visual C++ or Java because
>> they're more suited to multimedia. I'm thinking of using C++ (don't
>> know it yet) cause it's faster but since the GUI is a big part of it
>> and
>> considering how difficult it is... I'm not sure. I do know Java and
>> some C#. Would it be better to create a GUI in C# and have C++ to do
>> the
>> processing?
>
> The GUI libraries that come with Visual C++ for the C++ language are
> VERY primitive.  They are ... tedious to work with.

But (the Win32 API) is close to the OS, i.e., low-level. .Net is built on
top of the Win32 API.

>
> If you use the C++/CLI language then you have access to the .Net UI
> library.  It's more modern.

He'll have to decide on whether to use WinForms or WPF if he decides to
go with the higher-level MS APIs. When choosing those higher-level APIs,
one should seriously consider C# over C++ for C# is really geared toward
making GUI development using the VS IDE much easier than with C++.

>
> You also have the option of 3rd party libraries like Qt or Wx.

Which turns back the clock to the days of MFC and OWL, probably.

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#7189

On 6/25/2011 8:59 AM, MikeP wrote:
> Noah Roberts wrote:

>> You also have the option of 3rd party libraries like Qt or Wx.
>
> Which turns back the clock to the days of MFC and OWL, probably.

Hardly.  I don't know OWL, but MFC lacks a great deal of very important 
constructs.  Even the basics like layout managers are missing.

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#7157

> On 6/23/2011 11:28 PM, Raymond wrote:
>> So I've heard that creating GUI programs in C++ is quite difficult.
>>
>> I need to implement JPEG with a GUI to select settings and display
>> the image. We're encouraged to use Visual C++ or Java because
>> they're more suited to multimedia. I'm thinking of using C++ (don't
>> know it yet) cause it's faster but since the GUI is a big part of it 
>> and
>> considering how difficult it is... I'm not sure. I do know Java and
>> some C#. Would it be better to create a GUI in C# and have C++ to do 
>> the
>> processing?

It depends on what "the processing" is. There's a bunch of .Net 
facilities that you may want to use and there are probably others that 
you wouldn't want to use. The .Net file system APIs are horrendous, IMO, 
for example. OTOH, if your "processing" is much lower level, number 
crunching, e.g, C++ sounds like a more fitting choice. Of course, not 
even mentioned yet is C++/CLI which is quite a different animal than C++, 
which you will want to consider.

There's nothing easy about making the above kinds of decisions. If there 
is time (as in, over the course of your development "career"), do a 
little of each and get a feel for the issues; not just general issues, 
but what the consequences mean for you and/or who ever you are 
programming for/with.

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#7130

"Raymond" <mechian31@gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:iu1aun$j3c$1@speranza.aioe.org...
> So I've heard that creating GUI programs in C++ is quite difficult.
>
> I need to implement JPEG with a GUI to select settings and display the 
> image.  We're encouraged to use Visual C++ or Java because they're more 
> suited to multimedia.  I'm thinking of using C++ (don't know it yet) cause 
> it's faster but since the GUI is a big part of it and considering how 
> difficult it is... I'm not sure.  I do know Java and some C#.
>
> Would it be better to create a GUI in C# and have C++ to do the 
> processing?
>
Who is encouraging you to use VisualC++?

Visual C++ is,debatably, a term not a language. It is a term that can pretty 
much be summed up as meaning using MFC(Microsft foundation classes) and it 
is pretty much out of date  AFAIK.
VC++ and MFCs are microsoft specifc and if you are going that way I would 
use the more supported dotnet libraries (using C# or managed C++, both of 
which are easily interoperable).

Standard C++ can be used to write windows GUI's using the windows API , 
and/or DirextX api.  Which is what you would need to learn to gain and speed 
advantage over dotnet compiled programs.

If you already know java you could wirte 100 java swing programs (or 
whatrever the latest gui package is ) in the same time it would take you to 
learn C++ && windowsapi && directx. So stick with  java or C# for your 
assignment but by all means learn C++ too. Learning C++ will also give you a 
basic understanding of C and manged C++.

I learned C++ before Java and I finfd the Java inheritance system  a little 
back-to-front from C++ which is a little cofusing. You may find a reversal 
of the same going from Java to C++.
GL.

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#7136

On 24/06/2011 07:28, Raymond wrote:
> Would it be better to create a GUI in C# and have C++ to do the processing?

That's exactly what we do on our project.  C++ gives us more of the 
bit-twiddling level of control that we need for our particular 
specialist application.  C# is designed to bolt onto the back of the 
GUI, and the .NET libraries do a pretty good job.  However be aware you 
are then tying yourself to Windows.

"I need to implement JPEG" - that sounds odd.  There must be hundreds of 
standard JPEG libraries out there, surely one does what you want.  Good 
compression is a real art.

Andy

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#7138

On Fri, 24 Jun 2011 21:23:23 +0100, Andy Champ wrote:

> There must be hundreds of standard JPEG libraries out there

"Hundreds of" and "standard" are mutually contradictory. If there's a
"standard" JPEG library, it's either the one from the IJG (Independent
JPEG Group), or the one supplied as part of the OS (on Linux, that's the
IJG one). There might also be some other (i.e. non-standard) JPEG
libraries, but probably not hundreds of them.

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#7143

"Andy Champ" <no.way@nospam.invalid> wrote in message 
news:YZ-dnW-n1uymb5nTnZ2dnUVZ8gCdnZ2d@eclipse.net.uk...
> On 24/06/2011 07:28, Raymond wrote:
>> Would it be better to create a GUI in C# and have C++ to do the 
>> processing?
>
> That's exactly what we do on our project.  C++ gives us more of the 
> bit-twiddling level of control that we need for our particular specialist 
> application.  C# is designed to bolt onto the back of the GUI, and the 
> .NET libraries do a pretty good job.  However be aware you are then tying 
> yourself to Windows.

http://www.mono-project.com

[...] 

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#7178

On 25/06/2011 05:22, Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
> "Andy Champ"<no.way@nospam.invalid>  wrote in message
> news:YZ-dnW-n1uymb5nTnZ2dnUVZ8gCdnZ2d@eclipse.net.uk...
>> On 24/06/2011 07:28, Raymond wrote:
>>> Would it be better to create a GUI in C# and have C++ to do the
>>> processing?
>>
>> That's exactly what we do on our project.  C++ gives us more of the
>> bit-twiddling level of control that we need for our particular specialist
>> application.  C# is designed to bolt onto the back of the GUI, and the
>> .NET libraries do a pretty good job.  However be aware you are then tying
>> yourself to Windows.
>
> http://www.mono-project.com
>

Then I get a this-weeks-windows-standard-GUI app running under Linux (or 
wherever) not a local styled one.  Might do for some I suppose; We don't 
have this as a requirement.

Andy.

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#7176

On Fri, 2011-06-24, Andy Champ wrote:
> On 24/06/2011 07:28, Raymond wrote:
...

> "I need to implement JPEG" - that sounds odd.  There must be hundreds of 
> standard JPEG libraries out there, surely one does what you want.  Good 
> compression is a real art.

Which also includes security (coping with input explicitly designed to
break the decoder).

But surely this must be an advanced exercise in some algorithms
course? Although that doesn't explain why the assignment includes a
GUI, which would just divert attention from the main task.

The way I'd do it is to implement command-line tools just like the
standard cjpeg and djpeg, jpegtran etc in C++. Then do a quick hack of
a GUI in some language, not necessarily C++. That GUI would execute
the command-line tools.

/Jorgen

-- 
  // Jorgen Grahn <grahn@  Oo  o.   .  .
\X/     snipabacken.se>   O  o   .

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#7202

On Jun 24, 7:28 am, Raymond <mechia...@gmail.com> wrote:
> So I've heard that creating GUI programs in C++ is quite difficult.
>
> I need to implement JPEG with a GUI to select settings and display the
> image.  We're encouraged to use Visual C++ or Java because they're more
> suited to multimedia.  I'm thinking of using C++ (don't know it yet)
> cause it's faster but since the GUI is a big part of it and considering
> how difficult it is... I'm not sure.  I do know Java and some C#.
>
> Would it be better to create a GUI in C# and have C++ to do the processing?


I did a GUI program in C++ using the wxWidgets library. The wxWigets
library is portable across MS-Windows, Mac OS, Linux, among others.

I've a webpage about it:

http://virjacode.com/projects/dynamo

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#7204

On Jun 24, 9:28 am, Raymond <mechia...@gmail.com> wrote:
> So I've heard that creating GUI programs in C++ is quite difficult.
>
> I need to implement JPEG with a GUI to select settings and display the
> image.  We're encouraged to use Visual C++ or Java because they're more
> suited to multimedia.  I'm thinking of using C++ (don't know it yet)
> cause it's faster but since the GUI is a big part of it and considering
> how difficult it is... I'm not sure.  I do know Java and some C#.
>
> Would it be better to create a GUI in C# and have C++ to do the processing?

It's a breeze to create a managed C++ application with .NET framework.
It depends how much knobs and dials you want into your interface. You
could go with Direct2D, Direct3D or OpenGL if you want fancy graphical
features of GPU processing of the displayed data. It's possible to
keep things really simple or go broke with feature fever, hard to tell
from your post.

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