Re: Union C++ standard

Path	csiph.com!weretis.net!feeder6.news.weretis.net!news.misty.com!news.iecc.com!.POSTED.news.iecc.com!nerds-end
From	George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net>
Newsgroups	comp.compilers
Subject	Re: Union C++ standard
Date	Tue, 30 Nov 2021 17:18:35 -0500
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Lines	41
Sender	news@iecc.com
Approved	comp.compilers@iecc.com
Message-ID	<21-11-016@comp.compilers> (permalink)
References	<21-11-004@comp.compilers> <21-11-008@comp.compilers> <21-11-009@comp.compilers> <21-11-010@comp.compilers> <21-11-011@comp.compilers> <21-11-013@comp.compilers> <21-11-015@comp.compilers>
Mime-Version	1.0
Content-Type	text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding	8bit
Injection-Info	gal.iecc.com; posting-host="news.iecc.com:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:676f:7373:6970"; logging-data="35941"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@iecc.com"
Keywords	C, standards
Posted-Date	30 Nov 2021 18:53:52 EST
X-submission-address	compilers@iecc.com
X-moderator-address	compilers-request@iecc.com
X-FAQ-and-archives	http://compilers.iecc.com
Xref	csiph.com comp.compilers:2763

Show key headers only | View raw

On Tue, 30 Nov 2021 00:46:04 +0000, Derek Jones
<derek@NOSPAM-knosof.co.uk> wrote:

>You have made the mistake of reading the standard as "plain English".
>Almost everybody falls into this trap when they start out.
>In fact the standard is a stylized version of English, with some phrases
>specified to have a given meaning in specific contexts.
>
>As the committee is always saying, the standard is not intended as
>a tutorial.  You probably need to read it three or four times to
>get an idea of how it fits together (there is a strange logic to it).
>
>Start by understanding how the text is styled.
>
>The Conformance section specifies how "shall" and "shall not" are to be
>interpreted.

But it does NOT define "will" and "will not", and "must" and "must
not", and "does" and "does not" ... terms which are used liberally in
the documents, apparently without having any normative definition.

Not to mention that the Conformance section generally is not included
in draft documents.  Nor are there easy to find, freely available,
references on how to read various standards documents.

A great many programmers are in work situations which can't support
purchasing every official document that might apply.

>You also need to understand "unspecified behaviors" and "undefined behaviors".
>
>See Kaz Kylheku's discussion of the status of footnotes.
>
>You need to trace a legalistic top down approach (which takes practice).
>
>There are people actively discussing standard C on comp.std.c
>
>Footnotes state the obvious when it is not obvious to somebody.
>They are also an enormous source of confusion and best ignored.

YMMV,
George

Back to comp.compilers | Previous | Next — Previous in thread | Next in thread | Find similar

Thread

Union C++ standard Hans-Peter Diettrich <DrDiettrich1@netscape.net> - 2021-11-25 11:11 +0100
  Re: Union C++ standard Kaz Kylheku <480-992-1380@kylheku.com> - 2021-11-26 18:06 +0000
  Re: Union C++ standard gah4 <gah4@u.washington.edu> - 2021-11-26 12:16 -0800
  Re: Union C++ standard David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-11-27 16:59 +0100
    Re: Union C++ standard Derek Jones <derek@NOSPAM-knosof.co.uk> - 2021-11-28 12:51 +0000
      Re: Union C++ standard David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-11-28 19:00 +0100
        Re: Union C++ standard Derek Jones <derek@NOSPAM-knosof.co.uk> - 2021-11-29 00:09 +0000
          Re: Union C++ standard David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-11-29 21:00 +0100
            Re: Union C++ standard Derek Jones <derek@NOSPAM-knosof.co.uk> - 2021-11-30 00:46 +0000
              Re: Union C++ standard George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2021-11-30 17:18 -0500
                Re: Union C++ standard terminology Derek Jones <derek@knosof.co.uk> - 2021-12-01 13:35 +0000
              Re: Union C++ standard David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-11-30 23:24 +0100
        Re: Union C++ standard Kaz Kylheku <480-992-1380@kylheku.com> - 2021-11-29 16:39 +0000
          Re: Union C++ standard Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2021-11-29 14:32 -0800

csiph-web