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Groups > comp.arch > #115231 > unrolled thread
| Started by | quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2026-03-07 00:15 +0000 |
| Last post | 2026-03-31 13:11 +0000 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 597 — 25 participants |
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Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-03-07 00:15 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-03-07 19:00 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-03-08 01:14 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-03-08 06:08 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-03-08 18:43 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-03-10 01:00 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-03-10 13:21 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-03-10 15:15 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-03-13 05:02 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-03-13 16:08 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-03-13 16:28 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-03-13 16:33 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-03-13 16:43 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2026-03-13 10:24 -0700
Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-03-13 22:59 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-03-14 03:17 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-03-14 14:55 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-03-14 22:55 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-03-14 22:58 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-03-14 23:36 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-03-15 01:14 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-03-15 08:35 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-03-15 17:43 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-03-14 23:48 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-03-15 19:47 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-03-15 20:56 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-03-17 18:16 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-03-17 20:52 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-05-01 01:34 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-05-01 03:11 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-05-01 05:16 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-05-01 14:18 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-05-05 04:33 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-05-05 14:02 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-05-01 17:36 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-05-01 19:00 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-05-01 19:25 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-05-04 02:34 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-05-04 02:45 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-05-04 21:43 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-05-04 18:06 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-05-04 13:46 -0500
Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-05-06 01:10 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-05-06 17:19 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-05-18 05:24 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2026-05-01 12:29 -0700
Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-05-02 01:41 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-05-02 02:17 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-05-02 02:37 -0500
Re: Concertina II Instead Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2026-05-02 10:01 -0700
Re: Concertina II Instead Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2026-05-02 11:22 -0700
Re: Concertina II Instead BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-05-02 13:58 -0500
Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-05-02 19:00 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-05-02 05:09 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2026-05-02 05:37 -0700
Re: Concertina II Instead Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-05-02 15:57 +0000
Re: base, index, and so forth Concertina II Instead John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-05-02 18:21 +0000
Re: base, index, and so forth Concertina II Instead Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2026-05-02 12:31 -0700
Re: base, index, and so forth Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-05-02 20:21 +0000
Re: base, index, and so forth Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-05-02 21:29 +0000
Re: base, index, and so forth Concertina II Instead George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2026-05-03 21:06 -0400
Re: base, index, and so forth Concertina II Instead Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> - 2026-05-05 10:12 +0200
Re: base, index, and so forth Concertina II Instead George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2026-05-05 11:55 -0400
Re: base, index, and so forth Concertina II Instead Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> - 2026-05-05 21:05 +0200
Re: base, index, and so forth Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-05-03 08:47 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-05-02 17:25 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2026-05-02 11:05 -0700
Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-05-02 20:35 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-05-02 21:42 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-05-03 13:37 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-05-02 19:02 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-05-02 18:10 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-05-02 19:10 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-05-02 15:44 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2026-05-02 09:45 -0700
Re: index registers, Concertina II Instead John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-05-02 18:34 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-05-02 17:35 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-05-02 21:53 +0000
Re: immediates, Concertina II Instead John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-05-02 22:23 +0000
Re: immediates, Concertina II Instead anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-05-03 11:45 +0000
Re: immediates, Concertina II Instead John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-05-03 16:27 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-05-02 18:33 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-05-04 02:26 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-05-04 05:45 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2026-05-04 20:00 -0400
Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-05-06 01:06 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-05-02 06:19 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-05-02 03:33 -0500
Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-05-02 12:15 +0000
Adressing modes (was: Concertina II Instead) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-05-02 17:55 +0000
Re: Adressing modes (was: Concertina II Instead) MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-05-02 19:08 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-05-02 18:48 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-05-02 21:59 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-05-02 23:04 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead jgd@cix.co.uk (John Dallman) - 2026-03-15 14:35 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead EricP <ThatWouldBeTelling@thevillage.com> - 2026-03-15 15:47 -0400
Re: Concertina II Instead BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-03-16 04:16 -0500
Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-03-17 17:53 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-03-17 19:25 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-03-18 13:51 -0500
Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-03-18 19:55 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-03-18 21:08 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-03-19 21:15 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead jgd@cix.co.uk (John Dallman) - 2026-03-22 10:19 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-03-22 23:06 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-03-23 07:13 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-03-19 15:48 -0700
Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-03-20 01:42 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-03-20 00:34 -0700
Re: Concertina II Instead "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-03-20 00:36 -0700
Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-03-17 19:25 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-03-17 17:57 -0500
Re: Concertina II Instead antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-03-18 00:20 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-03-19 06:56 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-03-19 22:26 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-03-20 01:25 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead Robert Finch <robfi680@gmail.com> - 2026-03-17 20:30 -0400
Re: Concertina II Instead jgd@cix.co.uk (John Dallman) - 2026-03-19 00:20 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-03-19 12:06 +0200
Re: Concertina II Instead jgd@cix.co.uk (John Dallman) - 2026-03-19 10:46 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-03-19 16:15 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-03-19 16:22 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-03-19 19:00 +0200
Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-03-19 22:32 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-03-20 01:13 +0200
Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-03-20 01:43 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-03-20 07:23 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2026-03-20 09:27 -0400
Re: Concertina II Instead Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-03-20 16:01 +0200
Re: Concertina II Instead Andy Valencia <vandys@vsta.org> - 2026-03-20 07:19 -0700
Re: Concertina II Instead Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-03-20 17:29 +0200
Re: Concertina II Instead anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-03-21 07:06 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2026-03-21 06:06 -0700
Re: Concertina II Instead anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-03-21 16:21 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-03-22 01:00 +0200
Re: POWER trends, Concertina II Instead John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-03-22 01:12 +0000
Re: POWER trends, Concertina II Instead Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-03-22 03:28 +0200
Re: POWER trends, Concertina II Instead anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-03-22 09:48 +0000
Re: POWER trends, Concertina II Instead John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-03-22 17:57 +0000
Re: POWER trends, Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-03-23 19:18 +0000
Re: POWER trends, Concertina II Instead John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-03-23 21:10 +0000
Re: POWER trends, Concertina II Instead Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-03-23 21:38 +0000
Re: POWER trends, Concertina II Instead anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-03-24 18:12 +0000
Re: POWER trends, Concertina II Instead Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-03-25 20:31 +0000
Re: POWER trends, Concertina II Instead Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-03-25 23:05 +0200
Re: POWER trends, Concertina II Instead Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-03-25 21:11 +0000
Re: POWER trends, Concertina II Instead Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> - 2026-03-25 22:34 +0100
Re: POWER trends, Concertina II Instead anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-03-26 22:24 +0000
Re: POWER trends, Concertina II Instead Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-03-27 03:50 +0300
Re: POWER trends, Concertina II Instead anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-03-27 08:12 +0000
Re: POWER trends, Concertina II Instead Niklas Holsti <niklas.holsti@tidorum.invalid> - 2026-03-27 10:33 +0200
Re: POWER trends, Concertina II Instead Bill Findlay <findlaybill@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2026-03-27 16:41 +0000
Re: POWER trends, Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-03-27 18:53 +0000
multi-tasking performance on one core (was: POWER trends) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-03-27 08:37 +0000
Re: POWER trends, Concertina II Instead jgd@cix.co.uk (John Dallman) - 2026-03-27 12:46 +0000
Re: POWER trends, Concertina II Instead Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-03-24 10:41 +0200
Re: POWER trends, Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-03-24 11:36 +0000
Re: POWER trends, Concertina II Instead anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-03-22 08:49 +0000
Re: POWER trends, Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-03-27 12:49 +0000
Re: POWER trends, Concertina II Instead jgd@cix.co.uk (John Dallman) - 2026-03-27 13:47 +0000
Re: POWER trends, Concertina II Instead Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-03-27 17:27 +0000
byte order (was: POWER trends, Concertina II Instead) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-03-27 18:53 +0000
Power (was: Concertina II Instead) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-03-22 08:31 +0000
Re: Power (was: Concertina II Instead) quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-03-26 20:00 +0000
Re: z, was Power (was: Concertina II Instead) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-03-27 01:20 +0000
Re: Power (was: Concertina II Instead) Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-03-27 07:21 +0000
Re: Power (was: Concertina II Instead) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-03-27 08:07 +0000
Re: System z cpu error recovery [was Power] EricP <ThatWouldBeTelling@thevillage.com> - 2026-03-27 09:08 -0400
Re: Power (was: Concertina II Instead) MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-03-27 18:52 +0000
Re: Power (was: Concertina II Instead) Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-03-27 21:42 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2026-03-21 19:57 -0700
Re: Concertina II Instead anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-03-22 09:06 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-03-22 10:17 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-03-22 10:12 +0000
SPARC M8 (was: Concertina II Instead) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-03-21 16:44 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-03-24 04:09 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead jgd@cix.co.uk (John Dallman) - 2026-03-25 11:24 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-03-17 19:12 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-05-03 13:22 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead EricP <ThatWouldBeTelling@thevillage.com> - 2026-05-03 11:47 -0400
Re: Concertina II Instead Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-05-04 05:59 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-05-04 16:38 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead jgd@cix.co.uk (John Dallman) - 2026-05-06 18:58 +0100
Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-05-07 23:15 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead jgd@cix.co.uk (John Dallman) - 2026-05-11 15:34 +0100
x86s (was: Concertina II Instead) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-05-11 16:55 +0000
Re: x86s (was: Concertina II Instead) MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-05-11 18:24 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-05-12 15:58 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-05-12 18:16 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead jgd@cix.co.uk (John Dallman) - 2026-05-12 22:52 +0100
Re: Concertina II Instead scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-05-12 22:12 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead jgd@cix.co.uk (John Dallman) - 2026-05-13 19:33 +0100
Re: Concertina II Instead scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-05-13 18:47 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-05-13 18:07 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-05-13 20:51 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-05-15 16:02 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-05-16 11:20 +0200
Re: Concertina II Instead Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-05-14 21:10 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-05-15 16:05 +0000
Re: 16 vs 32 bits, Concertina II Instead John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-05-15 18:11 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-05-15 18:19 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-05-15 20:07 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-05-15 22:19 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-05-04 16:39 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-05-08 18:12 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-05-08 20:11 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead EricP <ThatWouldBeTelling@thevillage.com> - 2026-05-08 16:55 -0400
Re: Concertina II Instead scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-05-08 21:21 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead EricP <ThatWouldBeTelling@thevillage.com> - 2026-05-10 08:59 -0400
Re: Concertina II Instead anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-05-10 15:59 +0000
Re: VAX multiply, Concertina II Instead John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-05-10 19:09 +0000
Re: VAX multiply, Concertina II Instead EricP <ThatWouldBeTelling@thevillage.com> - 2026-05-11 12:20 -0400
Re: VAX multiply, Concertina II Instead John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-05-11 16:58 +0000
Re: VAX multiply, Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-05-11 18:26 +0000
Re: VAX multiply, Concertina II Instead Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-05-14 13:27 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead EricP <ThatWouldBeTelling@thevillage.com> - 2026-05-12 15:35 -0400
Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-05-12 20:22 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead EricP <ThatWouldBeTelling@thevillage.com> - 2026-05-12 17:47 -0400
Re: Concertina II Instead Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-05-15 13:54 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead EricP <ThatWouldBeTelling@thevillage.com> - 2026-05-15 11:30 -0400
Re: Concertina II Instead Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-05-15 17:08 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2026-05-10 16:23 -0400
Re: Concertina II Instead anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-05-11 07:47 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-05-11 18:16 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead EricP <ThatWouldBeTelling@thevillage.com> - 2026-05-11 09:02 -0400
Re: Concertina II Instead Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> - 2026-05-11 16:21 +0200
Re: Concertina II Instead Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-05-12 07:54 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-05-09 17:07 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead EricP <ThatWouldBeTelling@thevillage.com> - 2026-05-10 10:54 -0400
Re: Concertina II Instead anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-05-10 16:05 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-05-09 19:41 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead EricP <ThatWouldBeTelling@thevillage.com> - 2026-05-11 14:44 -0400
Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-05-11 20:51 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead EricP <ThatWouldBeTelling@thevillage.com> - 2026-05-15 09:03 -0400
Re: Concertina II Instead BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-03-10 16:57 -0500
Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-03-11 02:04 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-03-15 02:26 -0500
Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-03-15 17:55 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead jgd@cix.co.uk (John Dallman) - 2026-03-15 19:42 +0000
Re: emulation on the 360, Concertina II Instead John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-03-15 20:36 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-03-15 20:42 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead jgd@cix.co.uk (John Dallman) - 2026-03-17 20:18 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-03-17 20:28 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2026-03-18 00:18 -0700
Re: Concertina II Instead John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-03-18 17:35 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2026-03-23 21:10 -0700
Re: Concertina II Instead EricP <ThatWouldBeTelling@thevillage.com> - 2026-03-17 17:09 -0400
Re: Concertina II Instead Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-03-17 21:43 +0000
Re: microcode, Concertina II Instead John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-03-17 22:07 +0000
Re: microcode, Concertina II Instead Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2026-03-17 18:52 -0700
Re: microcode, Concertina II Instead scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-03-18 15:01 +0000
Re: microcode, Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-03-18 16:01 +0000
Re: microcode, Concertina II Instead scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-03-18 16:56 +0000
Re: microcode, Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-03-18 18:24 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-03-18 01:08 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2026-03-17 18:59 -0700
Re: Concertina II Instead Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2026-03-18 00:21 -0700
Re: Concertina II Instead Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-03-22 11:22 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-03-23 19:16 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-03-23 14:36 -0500
Re: Concertina II Instead Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2026-03-23 15:52 -0400
Re: Concertina II Instead BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-03-23 17:38 -0500
Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-03-24 11:40 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-03-24 14:35 -0500
Re: Concertina II Instead Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2026-03-24 13:48 -0700
Re: Concertina II Instead BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-03-24 18:09 -0500
Re: Concertina II Instead Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2026-03-24 16:33 -0700
Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-03-25 01:21 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2026-03-24 18:37 -0700
Re: Concertina II Instead BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-03-25 02:47 -0500
Re: Concertina II Instead Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-03-25 18:31 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2026-03-25 13:59 -0700
Re: Concertina II Instead Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-03-25 23:12 +0200
Re: Concertina II Instead BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-03-25 16:29 -0500
Re: Concertina II Instead Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-03-26 20:29 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-03-27 03:32 +0300
Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-03-27 12:45 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-03-27 16:54 +0300
Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-03-27 18:56 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-03-27 14:31 -0500
Re: Concertina II Instead Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-03-28 11:54 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-03-28 13:56 -0500
Re: Concertina II Instead Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-03-27 21:38 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-03-27 20:59 -0500
Re: Concertina II Instead Robert Finch <robfi680@gmail.com> - 2026-03-28 02:21 -0400
Re: Concertina II Instead BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-03-28 04:09 -0500
Re: Concertina II Instead anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-03-28 19:23 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-03-28 20:47 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-03-30 03:47 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-03-30 03:50 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2026-03-31 12:21 -0400
Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-04-01 07:49 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-04-01 19:14 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-03-27 18:50 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-03-28 08:41 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-03-27 14:25 -0500
Re: Concertina II Instead BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-03-25 16:13 -0500
Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-03-25 18:03 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-03-24 19:19 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-03-24 17:40 -0500
Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-03-25 01:20 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-03-15 16:53 -0500
Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-03-16 02:09 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-03-16 02:37 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-03-16 02:51 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-03-16 05:20 -0500
Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-03-16 13:24 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-03-16 18:43 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-03-16 21:44 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-03-08 20:44 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-03-08 17:20 -0500
Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-03-09 02:53 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-03-09 03:29 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-03-08 05:13 -0500
Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-03-16 22:09 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-03-16 22:36 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-03-16 23:46 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-03-17 00:06 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-03-17 08:00 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-03-17 15:36 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2026-03-17 09:09 -0700
Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-03-17 18:36 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-03-18 01:41 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-03-18 16:00 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-03-19 05:13 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-03-19 22:24 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-03-20 02:20 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-03-20 19:29 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-03-20 16:56 -0500
Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-03-21 04:44 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2026-04-01 07:58 -0700
Re: Concertina II Instead BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-04-01 14:53 -0500
Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-04-03 04:12 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-04-03 05:51 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-04-03 07:04 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-04-03 23:35 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-04-03 17:54 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead jgd@cix.co.uk (John Dallman) - 2026-04-03 14:47 +0100
Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-04-03 15:08 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-04-03 16:28 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead jgd@cix.co.uk (John Dallman) - 2026-04-03 19:48 +0100
Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-04-03 20:37 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-04-03 22:03 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-04-03 23:45 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead jgd@cix.co.uk (John Dallman) - 2026-04-04 13:29 +0100
Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-04-04 14:29 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-04-04 14:51 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-04-04 15:40 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-04-04 15:59 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-04-04 19:36 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-04-06 23:17 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-04-07 14:20 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-04-07 14:50 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-04-07 15:25 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-04-07 16:59 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-04-08 20:25 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-04-09 01:27 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-04-09 02:24 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-04-12 04:40 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-04-12 18:18 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-04-13 19:41 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-04-13 21:37 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-04-14 12:48 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-04-14 18:08 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-04-14 22:31 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-04-15 15:12 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-04-17 04:49 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-04-17 05:21 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-04-17 21:33 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-04-20 17:17 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-04-15 02:53 -0500
Re: Concertina II Instead jgd@cix.co.uk (John Dallman) - 2026-04-04 22:53 +0100
Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-04-04 23:49 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-04-05 03:15 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-04-05 09:38 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-04-05 13:52 +0300
Re: Concertina II Instead anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-04-05 13:48 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-04-05 18:34 +0300
Re: Concertina II Instead jgd@cix.co.uk (John Dallman) - 2026-04-05 12:43 +0100
Re: Concertina II Instead anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-04-05 14:30 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-04-06 01:16 -0500
Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-04-06 16:33 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-04-06 16:22 -0500
Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-04-06 22:41 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead Robert Finch <robfi680@gmail.com> - 2026-04-06 23:31 -0400
Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-04-07 04:48 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-04-07 03:12 -0500
Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-04-07 10:24 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-04-07 13:23 -0500
Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-04-07 19:32 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-04-07 14:52 -0500
Re: Concertina II Instead Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-04-08 19:50 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-04-08 15:03 -0500
Re: Concertina II Instead Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2026-04-08 15:15 -0700
Re: Concertina II Instead BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-04-08 23:34 -0500
Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-04-09 17:35 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-04-09 15:44 -0500
Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-04-10 01:11 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-04-09 21:09 -0500
Re: Concertina II Instead Robert Finch <robfi680@gmail.com> - 2026-04-11 01:41 -0400
Re: Concertina II Instead BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-04-11 01:45 -0500
Re: Concertina II Instead Robert Finch <robfi680@gmail.com> - 2026-04-11 07:32 -0400
Re: Concertina II Instead Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-04-11 13:41 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead Robert Finch <robfi680@gmail.com> - 2026-04-11 19:22 -0400
Re: Concertina II Instead Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-04-12 06:42 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-04-12 07:24 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead Robert Finch <robfi680@gmail.com> - 2026-04-12 06:55 -0400
Re: Concertina II Instead Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-04-12 12:33 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead Robert Finch <robfi680@gmail.com> - 2026-04-12 12:18 -0400
Re: Concertina II Instead BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-04-12 11:22 -0500
Re: Concertina II Instead Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-04-12 16:52 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-04-12 18:09 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2026-04-11 07:28 -0700
Re: Concertina II Instead BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-04-11 13:01 -0500
Re: Concertina II Instead Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2026-04-12 10:12 -0700
Re: Concertina II Instead BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-04-13 15:51 -0500
Re: Concertina II Instead Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-04-13 21:11 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-04-13 17:07 -0500
Re: Concertina II Instead Robert Finch <robfi680@gmail.com> - 2026-04-13 18:36 -0400
Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-04-14 01:19 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead Robert Finch <robfi680@gmail.com> - 2026-04-13 22:50 -0400
Re: Concertina II Instead Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-04-14 05:31 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead Robert Finch <robfi680@gmail.com> - 2026-04-14 09:07 -0400
Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-04-14 18:11 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-04-14 00:51 -0500
Re: Concertina II Instead Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-04-14 06:00 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-04-14 03:09 -0500
Re: Concertina II Instead Robert Finch <robfi680@gmail.com> - 2026-04-14 08:30 -0400
Re: Concertina II Instead scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-04-14 14:34 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-04-14 18:07 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-04-14 19:05 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-04-14 14:32 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-04-14 16:18 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-04-14 18:13 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-04-14 19:07 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-04-14 19:30 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-04-15 02:53 -0500
Re: Concertina II Instead Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> - 2026-04-15 21:22 +0200
Re: Concertina II Instead Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> - 2026-04-15 21:14 +0200
Re: Concertina II Instead Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-04-14 16:35 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-04-14 16:14 -0500
Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-04-15 00:44 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-04-14 21:24 -0500
Re: Concertina II Instead moi <findlaybill@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2026-04-15 03:32 +0100
Re: Machineguns [was re: Concertina II Instead] cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-04-15 11:30 +0000
Re: Machineguns [was re: Concertina II Instead] David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-04-15 15:48 +0200
Re: Machineguns [was re: Concertina II Instead] cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-04-15 13:56 +0000
Re: Machineguns [was re: Concertina II Instead] scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-04-15 14:34 +0000
Re: Machineguns [was re: Concertina II Instead] cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-04-15 16:25 +0000
Re: Machineguns [was re: Concertina II Instead] MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-04-15 17:54 +0000
Re: Machineguns [was re: Concertina II Instead] cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-04-15 18:48 +0000
Re: Machineguns [was re: Concertina II Instead] "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-04-16 14:59 -0700
Re: Machineguns [was re: Concertina II Instead] Andy Valencia <vandys@vsta.org> - 2026-04-15 09:52 -0700
Re: Machineguns [was re: Concertina II Instead] MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-04-15 19:24 +0000
Re: Machineguns [was re: Concertina II Instead] scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-04-15 20:00 +0000
Re: Machineguns [was re: Concertina II Instead] MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-04-16 17:27 +0000
Re: Machineguns [was re: Concertina II Instead] Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> - 2026-04-15 21:45 +0200
Re: Machineguns [was re: Concertina II Instead] "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-04-15 13:01 -0700
Re: Machineguns [was re: Concertina II Instead] "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-04-15 13:16 -0700
Re: Machineguns [was re: Concertina II Instead] Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-04-15 20:28 +0000
Re: Machineguns [was re: Concertina II Instead] "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-04-15 20:12 -0700
Re: Machineguns [was re: Concertina II Instead] Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-04-16 05:27 +0000
Re: Machineguns [was re: Concertina II Instead] "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-04-15 23:55 -0700
Re: Machineguns [was re: Concertina II Instead] MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-04-16 17:39 +0000
Re: Machineguns [was re: Concertina II Instead] "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-04-16 13:19 -0700
Re: Machineguns [was re: Concertina II Instead] Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-04-17 05:37 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-04-15 15:36 +0000
Re: far, far, away from Concertina II Instead John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-04-15 16:44 +0000
Re: far, far, away from Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-04-15 17:57 +0000
Re: far, far, away from Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-04-15 18:22 +0000
Re: far, far, away from Concertina II Instead John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-04-15 21:15 +0000
Gate delays (was: far, far, away from Concertina II Instead) Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-04-17 21:38 +0000
Re: Gate delays (was: far, far, away from Concertina II Instead) MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-04-18 01:11 +0000
Re: Gate delays EricP <ThatWouldBeTelling@thevillage.com> - 2026-04-18 13:01 -0400
Re: Gate delays MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-04-18 17:59 +0000
Re: Gate delays EricP <ThatWouldBeTelling@thevillage.com> - 2026-04-19 14:37 -0400
Re: Gate delays MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-04-19 21:39 +0000
Re: Gate delays Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-04-18 19:23 +0000
Re: Gate delays EricP <ThatWouldBeTelling@thevillage.com> - 2026-04-19 16:04 -0400
Re: Gate delays MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-04-19 21:48 +0000
Re: Gate delays Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-04-20 17:47 +0000
Re: Gate delays Paul Clayton <paaronclayton@gmail.com> - 2026-04-22 00:00 -0400
Re: Gate delays MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-04-22 18:19 +0000
Re: far, far, away from Concertina II Instead Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2026-04-18 20:51 -0700
Re: far, far, away from Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-04-19 18:18 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-04-15 21:55 +0200
Re: Concertina II Instead Bill Findlay <findlaybill@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2026-04-15 23:44 +0100
Re: Concertina II Instead BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-04-16 13:15 -0500
Re: Concertina II Instead "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-04-16 13:46 -0700
Re: Concertina II Instead Bill Findlay <findlaybill@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2026-04-16 23:00 +0100
Re: Concertina II Instead BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-04-16 18:53 -0500
Re: Concertina II Instead Bill Findlay <findlaybill@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2026-04-17 13:09 +0100
Re: Concertina II Instead BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-04-17 13:13 -0500
Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-04-17 02:06 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-04-16 22:09 -0500
Re: Concertina II Instead David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-04-17 08:05 +0200
Re: Concertina II Instead BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-04-17 02:20 -0500
Re: Concertina II Instead David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-04-17 14:18 +0200
Re: Concertina II Instead Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> - 2026-04-17 16:07 +0200
Re: Concertina II Instead David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-04-17 16:57 +0200
Re: Concertina II Instead Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> - 2026-04-17 17:30 +0200
Re: Concertina II Instead anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-04-17 08:51 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-04-17 15:05 +0300
Re: Concertina II Instead David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-04-17 14:47 +0200
Re: Concertina II Instead Bill Findlay <findlaybill@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2026-04-17 13:11 +0100
Re: Concertina II Instead David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-04-17 15:01 +0200
Re: Concertina II Instead BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-04-17 12:37 -0500
Re: Concertina II Instead David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-04-18 10:56 +0200
Re: Concertina II Instead BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-04-18 15:05 -0500
Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-04-18 21:02 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-04-19 01:08 +0300
Re: Concertina II Instead Robert Finch <robfi680@gmail.com> - 2026-04-18 21:04 -0400
Re: Concertina II Instead BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-04-19 03:54 -0500
Re: Concertina II Instead Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-04-19 12:28 +0300
Re: Concertina II Instead BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-04-19 14:14 -0500
Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-04-19 21:47 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-04-19 18:04 -0500
Re: Concertina II Instead Robert Finch <robfi680@gmail.com> - 2026-04-19 22:47 -0400
Re: Concertina II Instead BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-04-20 01:08 -0500
Re: Concertina II Instead Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> - 2026-04-18 11:11 +0200
Re: Concertina II Instead David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-04-18 11:37 +0200
Re: Concertina II Instead Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-04-18 10:08 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-04-18 14:18 +0200
Re: Concertina II Instead scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-04-17 15:45 +0000
Gun control (Was Re: Concertina II Instead) Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> - 2026-04-15 21:33 +0200
Re: Gun control (Was Re: Concertina II Instead) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-04-15 22:00 +0200
Re: Gun control (Was Re: Concertina II Instead) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-04-15 13:19 -0700
Re: Gun control (Was Re: Concertina II Instead) MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-04-16 17:31 +0000
Re: Gun control (Was Re: Concertina II Instead) Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> - 2026-04-16 19:46 +0200
Re: Gun control (Was Re: Concertina II Instead) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-04-16 13:26 -0700
Re: Gun control (Was Re: Concertina II Instead) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-04-16 13:34 -0700
Re: Gun control (Was Re: Concertina II Instead) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-04-16 18:39 +0000
Re: Gun control (Was Re: Concertina II Instead) MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-04-16 20:49 +0000
Re: Gun control (Was Re: Concertina II Instead) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-04-15 20:35 +0000
Re: Gun control (Was Re: Concertina II Instead) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-04-16 11:35 +0200
Re: Gun control (Was Re: Concertina II Instead) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-04-16 11:59 +0000
Re: Gun control (Was Re: Concertina II Instead) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-04-16 16:27 +0200
Re: Gun control (Was Re: Concertina II Instead) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-04-16 16:31 +0000
Re: Gun control (Was Re: Concertina II Instead) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-04-16 17:37 +0000
Re: Gun control (Was Re: Concertina II Instead) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-04-16 18:06 +0000
Re: Gun control (Was Re: Concertina II Instead) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-04-16 18:52 +0000
Re: Gun control (Was Re: Concertina II Instead) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-04-16 20:09 +0000
Re: Gun control (Was Re: Concertina II Instead) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-04-17 00:12 +0000
Re: Gun control (Was Re: Concertina II Instead) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-04-19 00:49 +0000
Re: Gun control (Was Re: Concertina II Instead) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-04-16 13:44 -0700
Re: Gun control (Was Re: Concertina II Instead) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-04-17 00:13 +0000
Re: Gun control (Was Re: Concertina II Instead) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-04-16 19:08 -0700
Re: Gun control (Was Re: Concertina II Instead) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-04-17 15:55 +0000
Re: Gun control (Was Re: Concertina II Instead) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-04-16 19:09 -0700
Re: Gun control (Was Re: Concertina II Instead) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-04-17 08:45 +0200
Re: Gun control (Was Re: Concertina II Instead) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-04-19 01:02 +0000
Re: Gun control (Was Re: Concertina II Instead) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-04-19 12:56 +0200
Re: Gun control (Was Re: Concertina II Instead) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-04-19 13:35 +0000
Re: Gun control (Was Re: Concertina II Instead) Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> - 2026-04-19 17:50 +0200
Re: Gun control (Was Re: Concertina II Instead) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-04-19 19:04 +0000
Re: Gun control (Was Re: Concertina II Instead) Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> - 2026-04-16 19:36 +0200
Re: Gun control (Was Re: Concertina II Instead) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-04-15 20:22 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-04-15 22:05 -0700
Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-04-14 18:04 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-04-14 17:56 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-04-14 18:01 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-04-15 10:48 +0200
Re: Concertina II Instead Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> - 2026-04-15 21:19 +0200
Re: Concertina II Instead scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-04-14 14:30 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-04-14 16:21 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-04-14 17:09 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-04-14 18:15 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-04-14 20:11 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-04-15 00:38 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-04-15 17:43 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-04-15 19:07 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-04-15 20:23 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-04-14 16:13 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-04-14 14:31 -0500
Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-04-14 17:54 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead Robert Finch <robfi680@gmail.com> - 2026-04-11 19:35 -0400
Re: Concertina II Instead Robert Finch <robfi680@gmail.com> - 2026-04-11 20:24 -0400
Re: Concertina II Instead Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2026-04-12 10:45 -0700
Re: Concertina II Instead BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-04-11 12:26 -0500
Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-04-11 17:47 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead Robert Finch <robfi680@gmail.com> - 2026-04-11 19:52 -0400
Re: Concertina II Instead Robert Finch <robfi680@gmail.com> - 2026-04-07 07:11 -0400
Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-04-07 04:49 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2026-04-07 09:20 -0400
Re: Concertina II Instead BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-04-07 14:31 -0500
Re: Concertina II Instead antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-04-12 19:28 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-04-12 17:01 -0500
Re: Concertina II Instead jgd@cix.co.uk (John Dallman) - 2026-04-03 17:34 +0100
Re: Concertina II Instead Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2026-04-03 07:53 -0700
Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-04-03 16:00 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-04-03 14:58 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-04-04 14:27 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-03-25 07:50 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-03-26 11:02 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-03-26 11:16 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-03-31 00:53 +0000
Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-03-31 13:11 +0000
Page 25 of 30 — ← Prev page 1 … 23 24 [25] 26 27 … 30 Next page →
| From | Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-04-20 17:47 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: Gate delays |
| Message-ID | <10s5orf$u0mr$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #116053 |
EricP <ThatWouldBeTelling@thevillage.com> schrieb: >> There is the method of logical effort, see >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logical_effort . I have not made >> much effort to do calculations using that method. > > Yes, I haven't actually used it either. > Sutherland has examples of the gate merging I'm referring to. > Section 4.4 Asymmetric logic gates figure 4.3 has an example of > (A and B) nor C) > merges the AND and NOR gates so instead of 2 gates and 8 transistors > its 1 gate 6 transistors. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AND-OR-invert#/media/File:AOI21_complex_vs_standard_gates.svg for an example. AOI (and their dual, OAI) gates are quite cool. > >> An alternative would be to use an actual library as an example. >> A company called Nangate released an open-sourced library (google >> for NangateOpenCellLibrary_typical.lib ), based on a 45 nm process, >> for which delay calculations can be done as example, for example >> using Berkeley ABC. That program can also do optimiztations >> (although it cannot handle gates with more than one input, such as >> full adders, and has weaknesses in stability). I haven't tried to >> model wire delays with this. > > A while ago I was rummaging about and found the individual gate > delay info in the open source Process Design Kit (PDK) files. > > https://skywater-pdk.readthedocs.io/en/main/ > https://github.com/google/skywater-pdk That looks interesting. > >>> In CMOS sometimes one is able to smoosh gates together and eliminate >>> gate delays, but the rules for when smooshing is allowed are not >>> obvious to me. I just assumed that it all sorts out in SPICE simulation. >> >> AOI and friends also work in TTL, I believe. > > Yes but you don't get to merge gates together to shorten the delay. > You only get to choose from the packages available > and for most situations just scan the spec sheet and use > the max of the all propagation delays. Sure, if you design a chip on a silicon wafer you have much more freedom. -- This USENET posting was made without artificial intelligence, artificial impertinence, artificial arrogance, artificial stupidity, artificial flavorings or artificial colorants.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Paul Clayton <paaronclayton@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-04-22 00:00 -0400 |
| Subject | Re: Gate delays |
| Message-ID | <10s9h5h$1vv02$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #116019 |
On 4/17/26 9:11 PM, MitchAlsup wrote: [snip] > In fast designs, there is an entire team charged with buffering and > routing the CLOCK so that every gate in 10^2 mm^2 receives its rising > edge and falling edge with less than 1 gate of delay 'skew' across > the whole chip using wires that have more than 1 gate of delay when > jumping over 30 gates. CRAY-1 had less than 1ns of clock skew in a > machine the size of restaurant refrigerator using wires with 2ns/foot > of delay. In ASIC designs, we assume (starting out) that there will > be 1/2 clock of skew in the 'clock' I thought that some designs used intentional clock skew. If the natural places to divide pipeline stages results in different logic depths, a skewed clock would enable some stages to borrow time from others (I think). Perhaps this is not called 'skew'. (I have also read that pipeline stage delay can be kept constant and area/power traded with time, i.e., a normally longer stage can spend area/power to reduce delay and a normally shorter stage can save area/power by spending the delay slack.)
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-04-22 18:19 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: Gate delays |
| Message-ID | <1776881990-5857@newsgrouper.org> |
| In reply to | #116084 |
Paul Clayton <paaronclayton@gmail.com> posted:
> On 4/17/26 9:11 PM, MitchAlsup wrote:
> [snip]
> > In fast designs, there is an entire team charged with buffering and
> > routing the CLOCK so that every gate in 10^2 mm^2 receives its rising
> > edge and falling edge with less than 1 gate of delay 'skew' across
> > the whole chip using wires that have more than 1 gate of delay when
> > jumping over 30 gates. CRAY-1 had less than 1ns of clock skew in a
> > machine the size of restaurant refrigerator using wires with 2ns/foot
> > of delay. In ASIC designs, we assume (starting out) that there will
> > be 1/2 clock of skew in the 'clock'
>
> I thought that some designs used intentional clock skew. If the
> natural places to divide pipeline stages results in different
> logic depths, a skewed clock would enable some stages to borrow
> time from others (I think).
In the not so distant past, Intel would use as many as 10 clock edges
to carefully time logic blocks. I think <essentially> everyone else
uses only 2 clock edges {rising and falling} and most only use {rising}.
> Perhaps this is not called 'skew'.
Skew is uncontrolled displacement of clock edge {early or late}. skew
is only harmful when a sending block and a receiving block have different
skew leaving the logic insufficient time to do its function.
Offset is controlled displacement of clock edge.
> (I have also read that pipeline stage delay can be kept constant
> and area/power traded with time, i.e., a normally longer stage
> can spend area/power to reduce delay and a normally shorter
> stage can save area/power by spending the delay slack.)
All sorts of engineering tricks are played "around the clock edge"
to make timing.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-04-18 20:51 -0700 |
| Subject | Re: far, far, away from Concertina II Instead |
| Message-ID | <861pgb7gkq.fsf@linuxsc.com> |
| In reply to | #115957 |
John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> writes: > According to quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid>: > >> On Wed, 15 Apr 2026 16:44:04 +0000, John Levine wrote: >> >>> Then in the 1960s some well organizaed revisionists ignored what >>> it says, pretended it meant an individual right to have guns >>> everywhere, and managed to find a majority of right wing supreme >>> court justices willing to sign on. >> >> I'm afraid that I can't agree with you on this. ... >> >> Of course, it's possible subordinate clauses were used differently >> back in the eighteenth century, but I'd need evidence to buy into >> that theory. > > The evidence is that for over 150 years, everyone agreed that it meant > state militias. There were two Supreme Court decisions in 1876 and > 1886 that confirmed the rights of states to regulate militias, one in > 1939 saying that a sawed off shotgun wasn't the kind of arm that the > 2nd was intended to protect, and one in 1980 confirming that it was OK > for states to forbid convicted felons from owning guns. > > I'm not aware of anyone claiming it was an individual right that the > states could not regulate until the 1960 revisionists, and no court > decision until Heller in 2008 which reversed the previous century and > a half's precedent. Heller was decided 5-4, over strong dissents. Has anyone seen comp.arch around here somewhere? I seem to have wandered into rec.guns.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-04-19 18:18 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: far, far, away from Concertina II Instead |
| Message-ID | <1776622692-5857@newsgrouper.org> |
| In reply to | #116038 |
Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> posted: > John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> writes: > > > According to quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid>: > > > >> On Wed, 15 Apr 2026 16:44:04 +0000, John Levine wrote: > >> > >>> Then in the 1960s some well organizaed revisionists ignored what > >>> it says, pretended it meant an individual right to have guns > >>> everywhere, and managed to find a majority of right wing supreme > >>> court justices willing to sign on. > >> > >> I'm afraid that I can't agree with you on this. ... > >> > >> Of course, it's possible subordinate clauses were used differently > >> back in the eighteenth century, but I'd need evidence to buy into > >> that theory. > > > > The evidence is that for over 150 years, everyone agreed that it meant > > state militias. There were two Supreme Court decisions in 1876 and > > 1886 that confirmed the rights of states to regulate militias, one in > > 1939 saying that a sawed off shotgun wasn't the kind of arm that the > > 2nd was intended to protect, and one in 1980 confirming that it was OK > > for states to forbid convicted felons from owning guns. > > > > I'm not aware of anyone claiming it was an individual right that the > > states could not regulate until the 1960 revisionists, and no court > > decision until Heller in 2008 which reversed the previous century and > > a half's precedent. Heller was decided 5-4, over strong dissents. > > Has anyone seen comp.arch around here somewhere? I seem to have > wandered into rec.guns. Hiding behind cover in the back of the room...
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-04-15 21:55 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <10roqep$16j1j$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #115930 |
On 15/04/2026 17:36, quadi wrote:
> On Wed, 15 Apr 2026 03:32:00 +0100, moi wrote:
>> On 15/04/2026 01:44, MitchAlsup wrote:
>
>>> One should also note: in the history of this system (~late 1930s)
>>> to present: only 2 properly registered FA guns have been used in any
>>> crimes. {Anyone with a brain would say this is a pretty good record}
>
>> Anyone with a non-USAn brain would say this is utterly insane.
>
> Utterly insane would be if the same procedure applied to thermonuclear
> warheads.
>
> Of course, much about the consequences of the Second Amendment indeed does
> appear insane. The sensible thing to do would be to repeal it, rather than
> pretend it doesn't exist, or it doesn't mean what it says, and hope the
> Supreme Court will look the other way.
>
A more general problem is the absurd belief that a document written some
250 years ago (with a few minor updates) is some kind of holy word that
should be revered today as though the writers were prophets that knew
the future of mankind, and all that is needed is for the priests (or
lawyers) to interpret their perfect words.
The American constitution was not a bad idea at the time, based on the
desires of the "founding fathers" - keeping the right people (i.e., the
founding fathers and their friends and peers) in power, keeping the
wrong people away (like poor people, or slaves, or the folks that lived
in the land before Europeans turned up) from influence, and making a
political and legal system that was reasonably fair and reasonably
practical for that day and age.
The world has moved on. The USA would be a better place if the powers
that be listened to what people want (like banning most guns, a national
health service, actual democracy where everyone's vote counts the same,
etc.) instead of arguing over how many angels can dance on a head of a
pin as decreed by the constitution authors.
That's just my two cents - coming from someone in a country almost
completely free of gun violence, where guns are only for hunting or
sport, and where we have far more real-world freedoms than the USA.
> Letting trustworthy people have fully-automatic weapons is a small
> problem; it's letting just anyone have semi-automatic weapons that has
> contributed significantly to school shootings and the like.
>
> John Savard
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| From | Bill Findlay <findlaybill@blueyonder.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-04-15 23:44 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <0001HW.2F904C530048EEAF30A10C38F@news.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #115946 |
On 15 Apr 2026, David Brown wrote
(in article <10roqep$16j1j$1@dont-email.me>):
> On 15/04/2026 17:36, quadi wrote:
> > On Wed, 15 Apr 2026 03:32:00 +0100, moi wrote:
> > > On 15/04/2026 01:44, MitchAlsup wrote:
> >
> > > > One should also note: in the history of this system (~late 1930s)
> > > > to present: only 2 properly registered FA guns have been used in any
> > > > crimes. {Anyone with a brain would say this is a pretty good record}
> >
> > > Anyone with a non-USAn brain would say this is utterly insane.
> >
> > Utterly insane would be if the same procedure applied to thermonuclear
> > warheads.
> >
> > Of course, much about the consequences of the Second Amendment indeed does
> > appear insane. The sensible thing to do would be to repeal it, rather than
> > pretend it doesn't exist, or it doesn't mean what it says, and hope the
> > Supreme Court will look the other way.
>
> [wise words omitted]
>
> That's just my two cents - coming from someone in a country ...
> where we have far more real-world freedoms than the USA.
That is the bit they really can't fathom.
--
Bill Findlay
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| From | BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-04-16 13:15 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <10rr8vi$1sh0n$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #115959 |
On 4/15/2026 5:44 PM, Bill Findlay wrote:
> On 15 Apr 2026, David Brown wrote
> (in article <10roqep$16j1j$1@dont-email.me>):
>
>> On 15/04/2026 17:36, quadi wrote:
>>> On Wed, 15 Apr 2026 03:32:00 +0100, moi wrote:
>>>> On 15/04/2026 01:44, MitchAlsup wrote:
>>>
>>>>> One should also note: in the history of this system (~late 1930s)
>>>>> to present: only 2 properly registered FA guns have been used in any
>>>>> crimes. {Anyone with a brain would say this is a pretty good record}
>>>
>>>> Anyone with a non-USAn brain would say this is utterly insane.
>>>
>>> Utterly insane would be if the same procedure applied to thermonuclear
>>> warheads.
>>>
>>> Of course, much about the consequences of the Second Amendment indeed does
>>> appear insane. The sensible thing to do would be to repeal it, rather than
>>> pretend it doesn't exist, or it doesn't mean what it says, and hope the
>>> Supreme Court will look the other way.
>>
>> [wise words omitted]
>>
>> That's just my two cents - coming from someone in a country ...
>> where we have far more real-world freedoms than the USA.
> That is the bit they really can't fathom.
>
?...
But, AFAIK, the UK is the place that went and banned:
Sharp points on knives;
Sharp points on scissors;
Buying solder without having certifications;
So, it is effectively sold black-market in small amounts,
to the electronics hobbyists.
...
And, where a person can be arrested, for stuff they say on social media
(or "thought crime" as some are calling it);
Where corporations can lead search-and-seizure operations for claimed IP
violations;
...
So, sorta like California but worse...
California apparently banned the 60/40 lead/tin stuff IIRC, but still
allows people to freely possess lead-free solder (so people apparently
need to smuggle the 60/40 into CA if they want to use it). Everywhere
else, 60/40 is OK. Well, and CA has the "age verification" controversy, etc.
Could be wrong, this is from memory and stuff I heard on the internet.
Then again, not like I can point too many fingers, the state I am living
in has (effectively) banned legal access to adult websites and similar
(so, it is like, one can light one up, but it is back to "the old days"
of mostly needing to torrent these kind of videos, on the ISPs that also
don't block the ability to download torrents, ...).
But, technically, now using an ISP that is seemingly more open:
Also now has IPv6 support, etc;
Unlike old ISP that was IPv4 only and put the user inside multiple
levels of NAT (and had annoying an level of traffic filtering, outgoing
connections only and seemingly only on whitelisted port ranges);
...
But, anyways, this whole sub-thread wasn't really the intended result.
In other news, I found a compiler bug (ABI related) that was causing XG3
to have worse code density than XG2.
Some of the ABI code for dealing with prologs/epilogs hadn't been
updated and wasn't correctly dealing with the RISC-V ABI; so was
generating functions with bigger prologs/epilogs than necessary (it was
"failing safely", but still trying to apply rules related to the XG1/XG2
ABI to the RISC-V ABI in a way that caused more instructions to be
emitted; it basically having incorrect register masks and dealing with
it by often taking "just save/restore everything" approach whenever the
RV function tried to preserve a register number that had been a scratch
register in XG1/XG2, which was fairly common).
Well, to keep it short, it was basically emitting instructions for
saving/restoring a lot more registers than needed whenever an edge case
was triggered (trying to save a register which was callee-save in RV/XG3
but scratch in XG1/XG2).
The scenario being "not ideal" for either binary size or performance.
...
After fixing this bug (well, and re-enabling the ADDU.L 2RI
instructions), XG3 now beats XG2, so updated code-density ranking now
(best to worse, Doom .text size):
XG1 (279K)
RV64GC+JX (286K)
XG3 (289K)
XG2 (293K)
RV64G+JX (323K)
...
Can note that for an XG3 build of Heretic, it is 267K, where currently
Heretic is giving smaller binaries, but also has less
random/experimental stuff. Seems for Heretic, the XG3 build is now
currently smaller than XG1 (267K vs 280K), currently in the top place
for smallest binary among the current target-set.
Note: All builds here using a static-linked C library.
Bugfix seemed to shave off roughly 30K of prolog/epilog code in the RV
ABI based cases.
Errm, nevermind if for both Doom and Heretic I did go and glue on random
stuff like support for 3D glasses and similar. Not yet ported the logic
to Hexen, but this is probably a bit of a gimmick anyways.
...
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| From | "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-04-16 13:46 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <10rrhra$1vho4$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #115977 |
On 4/16/2026 11:15 AM, BGB wrote:
> On 4/15/2026 5:44 PM, Bill Findlay wrote:
>> On 15 Apr 2026, David Brown wrote
>> (in article <10roqep$16j1j$1@dont-email.me>):
>>
>>> On 15/04/2026 17:36, quadi wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 15 Apr 2026 03:32:00 +0100, moi wrote:
>>>>> On 15/04/2026 01:44, MitchAlsup wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> One should also note: in the history of this system (~late 1930s)
>>>>>> to present: only 2 properly registered FA guns have been used in any
>>>>>> crimes. {Anyone with a brain would say this is a pretty good record}
>>>>
>>>>> Anyone with a non-USAn brain would say this is utterly insane.
>>>>
>>>> Utterly insane would be if the same procedure applied to thermonuclear
>>>> warheads.
>>>>
>>>> Of course, much about the consequences of the Second Amendment
>>>> indeed does
>>>> appear insane. The sensible thing to do would be to repeal it,
>>>> rather than
>>>> pretend it doesn't exist, or it doesn't mean what it says, and hope the
>>>> Supreme Court will look the other way.
>>>
>>> [wise words omitted]
>>>
>>> That's just my two cents - coming from someone in a country ...
>>> where we have far more real-world freedoms than the USA.
>> That is the bit they really can't fathom.
>>
>
> ?...
>
> But, AFAIK, the UK is the place that went and banned:
> Sharp points on knives;
> Sharp points on scissors;
Better put corks on the forks! This scene from Dirty Rotten Scoundrels
always cracked me up:
(Dirty Rotten Scoundrels (1988) - Dinner With Ruprecht Scene (6/12) |
Movieclips)
https://youtu.be/SKDX-qJaJ08
corks on the forks to prevent him from hurting himself and/or others... ;^D
> Buying solder without having certifications;
> So, it is effectively sold black-market in small amounts,
> to the electronics hobbyists.
[...]
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| From | Bill Findlay <findlaybill@blueyonder.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-04-16 23:00 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <0001HW.2F9193850054647230A10C38F@news.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #115977 |
On 16 Apr 2026, BGB wrote
(in article <10rr8vi$1sh0n$1@dont-email.me>):
> On 4/15/2026 5:44 PM, Bill Findlay wrote:
> > On 15 Apr 2026, David Brown wrote
> > (in article <10roqep$16j1j$1@dont-email.me>):
> >
> > > On 15/04/2026 17:36, quadi wrote:
> > > > On Wed, 15 Apr 2026 03:32:00 +0100, moi wrote:
> > > > > On 15/04/2026 01:44, MitchAlsup wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > > One should also note: in the history of this system (~late 1930s)
> > > > > > to present: only 2 properly registered FA guns have been used in any
> > > > > > crimes. {Anyone with a brain would say this is a pretty good record}
> > > >
> > > > > Anyone with a non-USAn brain would say this is utterly insane.
> > > >
> > > > Utterly insane would be if the same procedure applied to thermonuclear
> > > > warheads.
> > > >
> > > > Of course, much about the consequences of the Second Amendment indeed does
> > > > appear insane. The sensible thing to do would be to repeal it, rather than
> > > > pretend it doesn't exist, or it doesn't mean what it says, and hope the
> > > > Supreme Court will look the other way.
> > >
> > > [wise words omitted]
> > >
> > > That's just my two cents - coming from someone in a country ...
> > > where we have far more real-world freedoms than the USA.
> > That is the bit they really can't fathom.
>
> ?...
>
> But, AFAIK, the UK is the place that went and banned:
> Sharp points on knives;
> Sharp points on scissors;
> Buying solder without having certifications;
> So, it is effectively sold black-market in small amounts,
> to the electronics hobbyists.
> ...
> And, where a person can be arrested, for stuff they say on social media
> (or "thought crime" as some are calling it);
> Where corporations can lead search-and-seizure operations for claimed IP
> violations;
It is clear from that claptrap that in fact you know very little.
(MAGA shills like JD are not a trustworthy source of information.)
--
Bill Findlay
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| From | BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-04-16 18:53 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <10rrsqc$22m9c$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #115988 |
On 4/16/2026 5:00 PM, Bill Findlay wrote:
> On 16 Apr 2026, BGB wrote
> (in article <10rr8vi$1sh0n$1@dont-email.me>):
>
>> On 4/15/2026 5:44 PM, Bill Findlay wrote:
>>> On 15 Apr 2026, David Brown wrote
>>> (in article <10roqep$16j1j$1@dont-email.me>):
>>>
>>>> On 15/04/2026 17:36, quadi wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, 15 Apr 2026 03:32:00 +0100, moi wrote:
>>>>>> On 15/04/2026 01:44, MitchAlsup wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> One should also note: in the history of this system (~late 1930s)
>>>>>>> to present: only 2 properly registered FA guns have been used in any
>>>>>>> crimes. {Anyone with a brain would say this is a pretty good record}
>>>>>
>>>>>> Anyone with a non-USAn brain would say this is utterly insane.
>>>>>
>>>>> Utterly insane would be if the same procedure applied to thermonuclear
>>>>> warheads.
>>>>>
>>>>> Of course, much about the consequences of the Second Amendment indeed does
>>>>> appear insane. The sensible thing to do would be to repeal it, rather than
>>>>> pretend it doesn't exist, or it doesn't mean what it says, and hope the
>>>>> Supreme Court will look the other way.
>>>>
>>>> [wise words omitted]
>>>>
>>>> That's just my two cents - coming from someone in a country ...
>>>> where we have far more real-world freedoms than the USA.
>>> That is the bit they really can't fathom.
>>
>> ?...
>>
>> But, AFAIK, the UK is the place that went and banned:
>> Sharp points on knives;
>> Sharp points on scissors;
>> Buying solder without having certifications;
>> So, it is effectively sold black-market in small amounts,
>> to the electronics hobbyists.
>> ...
>> And, where a person can be arrested, for stuff they say on social media
>> (or "thought crime" as some are calling it);
>> Where corporations can lead search-and-seizure operations for claimed IP
>> violations;
>
> It is clear from that claptrap that in fact you know very little.
> (MAGA shills like JD are not a trustworthy source of information.)
>
I am not really part of the MAGA crowd.
I am not really into politics in general...
But, this is still what people say online about the UK and CA and similar...
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| From | Bill Findlay <findlaybill@blueyonder.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-04-17 13:09 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <0001HW.2F925A920058EF3730A10C38F@news.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #115989 |
On 17 Apr 2026, BGB wrote (in article <10rrsqc$22m9c$1@dont-email.me>): > On 4/16/2026 5:00 PM, Bill Findlay wrote: > > On 16 Apr 2026, BGB wrote > > (in article <10rr8vi$1sh0n$1@dont-email.me>): > > ... > > > > > > But, AFAIK, the UK is the place that went and banned: > > > Sharp points on knives; > > > Sharp points on scissors; > > > Buying solder without having certifications; > > > So, it is effectively sold black-market in small amounts, > > > to the electronics hobbyists. > > > ... > > > And, where a person can be arrested, for stuff they say on social media > > > (or "thought crime" as some are calling it); > > > Where corporations can lead search-and-seizure operations for claimed IP > > > violations; > > > > It is clear from that claptrap that in fact you know very little. > > (MAGA shills like JD are not a trustworthy source of information.) > > I am not really part of the MAGA crowd. > I am not really into politics in general... > > But, this is still what people say online about the UK and CA and similar... So, myevaluation of your words was spot on. -- Bill Findlay
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| From | BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-04-17 13:13 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <10rtt8f$2k98o$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #116004 |
On 4/17/2026 7:09 AM, Bill Findlay wrote: > On 17 Apr 2026, BGB wrote > (in article <10rrsqc$22m9c$1@dont-email.me>): > >> On 4/16/2026 5:00 PM, Bill Findlay wrote: >>> On 16 Apr 2026, BGB wrote >>> (in article <10rr8vi$1sh0n$1@dont-email.me>): >>> ... >>>> >>>> But, AFAIK, the UK is the place that went and banned: >>>> Sharp points on knives; >>>> Sharp points on scissors; >>>> Buying solder without having certifications; >>>> So, it is effectively sold black-market in small amounts, >>>> to the electronics hobbyists. >>>> ... >>>> And, where a person can be arrested, for stuff they say on social media >>>> (or "thought crime" as some are calling it); >>>> Where corporations can lead search-and-seizure operations for claimed IP >>>> violations; >>> >>> It is clear from that claptrap that in fact you know very little. >>> (MAGA shills like JD are not a trustworthy source of information.) >> >> I am not really part of the MAGA crowd. >> I am not really into politics in general... >> >> But, this is still what people say online about the UK and CA and similar... > > So, myevaluation of your words was spot on. If you mean to say that you think I am also part of the MAGA crowd (or idolize DJT or JDV), I will disagree... But, if you mean it in the sense that I have no particular expertise in international law or similar, then probably true enough (not exactly that I have much basis to disagree on this point). Most of what I have gathered on this topic has mostly been from the "streams of random people talking about stuff on the internet" (usually mixed in with other stuff, particularly if doom scrolling on X or similar...). And, sometimes, one can have something to play in the background while they are working on code or similar, that doesn't require all that much attention, ... A lot of times, YouTube videos where people just sort of ramble on about some topic can work well, when not just listening to music or similar. But, in general, rarely did people really say much about either the UK or CA, if they talk about them at all, these are a few places that people seem to like to rip on. The other side here being much more into going on about the whole thing in Gaza (and human rights violations, ...), TX oppressing reproductive rights, various places opposing people's ability to express their preferred gender identity, etc. These two areas rarely overlap though on a single topic. Though, admittedly, I don't really understand the whole "gender identity" thing all that well, doesn't strongly interact with my own experience. Well, and the places they do overlap is usually in conflict over the perception of public figures like DJT (like whether he is hero or demon, ...), and similar... ...
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-04-17 02:06 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <10rs4ic$24jpr$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #115977 |
On Thu, 16 Apr 2026 13:15:13 -0500, BGB wrote: > And, where a person can be arrested, for stuff they say on social media > (or "thought crime" as some are calling it); Almost all countries other than the United States limit freedom of speech by excluding the incitment of hatred towards minority groups. This is perhaps a natural result of Europe having had World War II fought on its own soil, and so they consider it a matter of survival to prevent the rise of another movement similar to Nazism. Given current political trends in Europe, I have to say it's a pity they didn't think that one way to prevent the rise of bigoted extremist movements would have been not to have such a liberal immigration policy that the demographic consequences would end up being an annoyance to a lot of ordinary people not previously inclined to bigotry. John Savard
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| From | BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-04-16 22:09 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <10rs892$25dhm$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #115992 |
On 4/16/2026 9:06 PM, quadi wrote: > On Thu, 16 Apr 2026 13:15:13 -0500, BGB wrote: > >> And, where a person can be arrested, for stuff they say on social media >> (or "thought crime" as some are calling it); > > Almost all countries other than the United States limit freedom of speech > by excluding the incitment of hatred towards minority groups. > This is perhaps a natural result of Europe having had World War II fought > on its own soil, and so they consider it a matter of survival to prevent > the rise of another movement similar to Nazism. > OK. This at least seems like a sensible place where limits could be imposed, like if a person is advocating for violence against a group of people, or promoting criminal activity (of the sort where actual peoples' health or well-being is concerned). Though, the line here gets fuzzy. I think the claim though was that people were getting arrested for things being said that had "offended the political elites" or disagreeing with the official party line on various policies or something. But, yeah, if it is people promoting doing stuff like what happened in WWII, this is more understandable. But, yeah, I guess in the US, people going around and doing the whole "neo-Nazi" and "white supremacist" thing has become a bit of an issue... This sort of thing can get worrying sometimes. In recent years it does seem as if the racists have been winning here. Sorta reminds me of some years ago, people were making a lot of fuss about BO, like saying here wasn't really an American and was actually allying with the Islamists and stuff... But, like, there were no real scandals going on, and it was mostly uneventful. Then, with DJT, it is like it all turns into a raging crap-storm (with an endless stream of infighting, scandals, etc) and everyone else is like "Basically cool I guess, keep up the good work". To admit something, though possibly an unpopular/controversial position, kinda hoped KH would have won. Had I known how big of a crap-storm it was all going to be, might have taken a stronger stance on the issue (vs just going along passively...). Alas... Though, possibly it would have still sucked either way. But, yeah, politics is kinda confusing and sucks in this way. > Given current political trends in Europe, I have to say it's a pity they > didn't think that one way to prevent the rise of bigoted extremist > movements would have been not to have such a liberal immigration policy > that the demographic consequences would end up being an annoyance to a lot > of ordinary people not previously inclined to bigotry. > Possibly true. From what I had heard, usual issue is mostly that people from the middle east come in and start bombing stuff and trying to push for Sharia law everywhere. I think also there was a thing where Germany realized this was not cool and basically put a ban on allowing anyone to try to impose Sharia law. But, say, there is a limit here, like one person trying to impose their religious rules on others isn't cool (nor is them trying to forcibly convert others, etc). Or, at least within the US context, this makes me think that the whole thing of trying to enforce pro-life policies, or putting people through "gay conversion therapy" and such, may be doing more harm than good. Like, in terms of trying to control peoples' moral behavior, it is making the situation worse for them than had they been left to make their own choices in these area; even if one still views these things as moral faults, and would similarly assume keeping the personal freedoms to consider them as moral faults. Like, the line being not so much what a person thinks or does for themselves, but where it crosses to imposing on others. ...
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| From | David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-04-17 08:05 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <10rsik4$287kv$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #115977 |
On 16/04/2026 20:15, BGB wrote:
> On 4/15/2026 5:44 PM, Bill Findlay wrote:
>> On 15 Apr 2026, David Brown wrote
>> (in article <10roqep$16j1j$1@dont-email.me>):
>>
>>> On 15/04/2026 17:36, quadi wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 15 Apr 2026 03:32:00 +0100, moi wrote:
>>>>> On 15/04/2026 01:44, MitchAlsup wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> One should also note: in the history of this system (~late 1930s)
>>>>>> to present: only 2 properly registered FA guns have been used in any
>>>>>> crimes. {Anyone with a brain would say this is a pretty good record}
>>>>
>>>>> Anyone with a non-USAn brain would say this is utterly insane.
>>>>
>>>> Utterly insane would be if the same procedure applied to thermonuclear
>>>> warheads.
>>>>
>>>> Of course, much about the consequences of the Second Amendment
>>>> indeed does
>>>> appear insane. The sensible thing to do would be to repeal it,
>>>> rather than
>>>> pretend it doesn't exist, or it doesn't mean what it says, and hope the
>>>> Supreme Court will look the other way.
>>>
>>> [wise words omitted]
>>>
>>> That's just my two cents - coming from someone in a country ...
>>> where we have far more real-world freedoms than the USA.
>> That is the bit they really can't fathom.
>>
>
> ?...
>
Note - I come from the UK originally, but live in Norway.
> But, AFAIK, the UK is the place that went and banned:
> Sharp points on knives;
> Sharp points on scissors;
> Buying solder without having certifications;
> So, it is effectively sold black-market in small amounts,
> to the electronics hobbyists.
> ...
Complete nonsense.
But both the UK and Norway have restrictions on people carrying around
deadly weapons of all sorts. The freedom not to be stabbed, shot, or
otherwise injured or killed trumps the freedom to carry such weapons.
> And, where a person can be arrested, for stuff they say on social media
> (or "thought crime" as some are calling it);
Only thoughtless people are calling it that. You've been watching tool
much Fox News - a channel that describes itself as "entertainment"
without any obligation to tell the truth.
The freedom of innocent people not to suffer abuse, hatred and prejudice
trumps the freedom of nasty little sods who think they have the right to
abuse others. And inciting hatred or encouraging others to commit
criminal behaviour is just as much a crime in the USA as the UK.
> Where corporations can lead search-and-seizure operations for claimed IP
> violations;
No, they can't.
And in European countries, unlike the USA, corporations don't get to lie
and cheat then claim "freedom of speech".
We are free to live safely. We have the freedom to send our kids to
school without worrying if they will survive the day. We have the
freedom of knowing that we won't lose our jobs just because the boss is
having a bad hair day. And losing a job does not mean losing our
health. And we have freedom to vote, knowing that votes count equally.
(Well, the UK parliament elections still have a way to go here, but the
Scottish and Norwegian elections have fair votes.)
No country is perfect by any means, but Europeans live far freer lives.
We might not have the freedom to own guns so our kids can accidentally
kill each other, but overall we win out.
Remember, freedoms are always a balance, not an absolute. Lots of types
of freedom for one person reduce other freedoms for other people.
> ...
>
>
> So, sorta like California but worse...
>
> California apparently banned the 60/40 lead/tin stuff IIRC, but still
> allows people to freely possess lead-free solder (so people apparently
> need to smuggle the 60/40 into CA if they want to use it). Everywhere
> else, 60/40 is OK. Well, and CA has the "age verification" controversy,
> etc.
I can't answer for California, but if I want leaded solder I can just
order some. But the regulations against the use of lead in general are
a good thing - the freedom to drink water without lead trumps the
freedom of a handful of people to use cheaper and lower temperature
soldering irons.
>
> Could be wrong, this is from memory and stuff I heard on the internet.
>
You should be a lot more careful about what you watch on the internet.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-04-17 02:20 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <10rsn0d$29brh$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #115999 |
On 4/17/2026 1:05 AM, David Brown wrote:
> On 16/04/2026 20:15, BGB wrote:
>> On 4/15/2026 5:44 PM, Bill Findlay wrote:
>>> On 15 Apr 2026, David Brown wrote
>>> (in article <10roqep$16j1j$1@dont-email.me>):
>>>
>>>> On 15/04/2026 17:36, quadi wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, 15 Apr 2026 03:32:00 +0100, moi wrote:
>>>>>> On 15/04/2026 01:44, MitchAlsup wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> One should also note: in the history of this system (~late 1930s)
>>>>>>> to present: only 2 properly registered FA guns have been used in any
>>>>>>> crimes. {Anyone with a brain would say this is a pretty good record}
>>>>>
>>>>>> Anyone with a non-USAn brain would say this is utterly insane.
>>>>>
>>>>> Utterly insane would be if the same procedure applied to thermonuclear
>>>>> warheads.
>>>>>
>>>>> Of course, much about the consequences of the Second Amendment
>>>>> indeed does
>>>>> appear insane. The sensible thing to do would be to repeal it,
>>>>> rather than
>>>>> pretend it doesn't exist, or it doesn't mean what it says, and hope
>>>>> the
>>>>> Supreme Court will look the other way.
>>>>
>>>> [wise words omitted]
>>>>
>>>> That's just my two cents - coming from someone in a country ...
>>>> where we have far more real-world freedoms than the USA.
>>> That is the bit they really can't fathom.
>>>
>>
>> ?...
>>
>
> Note - I come from the UK originally, but live in Norway.
>
>> But, AFAIK, the UK is the place that went and banned:
>> Sharp points on knives;
>> Sharp points on scissors;
>> Buying solder without having certifications;
>> So, it is effectively sold black-market in small amounts,
>> to the electronics hobbyists.
>> ...
>
> Complete nonsense.
>
> But both the UK and Norway have restrictions on people carrying around
> deadly weapons of all sorts. The freedom not to be stabbed, shot, or
> otherwise injured or killed trumps the freedom to carry such weapons.
>
Fair enough.
Later went and asked Gemini about it, it said that the laws restrict
carrying things with sharp tips (like knives and similar) rather than
possession of them (say, at a person's house).
Apparently, the idea that it was a ban on all pointy things was an
over-generalization that floats around on the internet.
...
>> And, where a person can be arrested, for stuff they say on social
>> media (or "thought crime" as some are calling it);
>
> Only thoughtless people are calling it that. You've been watching tool
> much Fox News - a channel that describes itself as "entertainment"
> without any obligation to tell the truth.
>
Actually, mostly, it has been a mix of YouTube videos/shorts and
Twitter/X threads...
> The freedom of innocent people not to suffer abuse, hatred and prejudice
> trumps the freedom of nasty little sods who think they have the right to
> abuse others. And inciting hatred or encouraging others to commit
> criminal behaviour is just as much a crime in the USA as the UK.
>
OK.
Some people were making it sound like they were opposing peoples'
abilities to have and express opinions in general (though they didn't
usually specify on what sorts of topics).
Originally, seemed like, it could have been something like, say:
Person says something bad about a political leader or similar;
Political leader sees it and feels insulted and has person arrested.
Or, something of this sort, ...
But, yeah, in the US people usually say the First Amendment guarantees
peoples' freedom to have and express opinions about whatever.
Though, OTOH, I guess things like social media platforms still have the
ability to ban people from the platform if they go around spreading
hate-speech or similar.
Apparently I guess that was a problem in the past with DJT, then he got
banned off of Twitter, then he started his own social network, then Elon
bought Twitter and renamed it X, and DJT got back on there, ...
>> Where corporations can lead search-and-seizure operations for claimed
>> IP violations;
>
> No, they can't.
>
> And in European countries, unlike the USA, corporations don't get to lie
> and cheat then claim "freedom of speech".
>
Saw a thing not too long ago talking about how apparently Sega left some
Nintendo devkits in an old office building, then abandoned the building,
and later the building owners sold off all the old junk that was left in
the buildings.
Story goes that the guy who bought up some of the old junk posted about
it on the internet, and then Sega + Nintendo + UK Police went in and
arrested the guy and took all his stuff (then they released the guy, but
he didn't get the stuff back), because the idea was that him having the
devkits was considered as theft of intellectual property.
Eg (finding a few videos talking about one of the incidents):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sy9Eb8J0xGk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NU040CTdJI0
There was another video I saw in the past talking about it originally,
but I didn't see them now (haven't watched through the videos I found
now to compare details).
...
Well, contrast I guess if people post leaked closed-source code on
GitHub or similar, the companies that own the code may issue DMCA
take-downs or similar, but will not generally raid the person's house.
There was some guy though (with some balls) who was releasing
ported/modded versions of some previously released SuperMario64 code.
Not personally inclined to look at it or mess with it though.
> We are free to live safely. We have the freedom to send our kids to
> school without worrying if they will survive the day. We have the
> freedom of knowing that we won't lose our jobs just because the boss is
> having a bad hair day. And losing a job does not mean losing our
> health. And we have freedom to vote, knowing that votes count equally.
> (Well, the UK parliament elections still have a way to go here, but the
> Scottish and Norwegian elections have fair votes.)
>
> No country is perfect by any means, but Europeans live far freer lives.
> We might not have the freedom to own guns so our kids can accidentally
> kill each other, but overall we win out.
>
> Remember, freedoms are always a balance, not an absolute. Lots of types
> of freedom for one person reduce other freedoms for other people.
>
OK.
>> ...
>>
>>
>> So, sorta like California but worse...
>>
>> California apparently banned the 60/40 lead/tin stuff IIRC, but still
>> allows people to freely possess lead-free solder (so people apparently
>> need to smuggle the 60/40 into CA if they want to use it). Everywhere
>> else, 60/40 is OK. Well, and CA has the "age verification"
>> controversy, etc.
>
> I can't answer for California, but if I want leaded solder I can just
> order some. But the regulations against the use of lead in general are
> a good thing - the freedom to drink water without lead trumps the
> freedom of a handful of people to use cheaper and lower temperature
> soldering irons.
>
Where I am, solder is sold on Amazon or similar...
Had seen videos where people made it seem like solder was some sort of
black-market contraband.
Looking around, apparently the restrictions were specifically on
lead-based solder though, rather than restricting all solder.
In the case of California, did see something not too long ago saying
that they were trying to get something passed to ban personal ownership
of 3D printers and CNC machines.
Though, I didn't see anyone else talking about this, so it seemed
unconfirmed.
There is a lot more talking going on about the CA "OS age verification"
bull, and now something saying that the US federal people are now
looking into something similar (groan, this has a risk to potentially
ruin open source and make everything suck...). Hopefully it goes the way
of past proposals for bans on OSS and RISC-V and similar, ...
So, not like US is exactly perfect either...
>>
>> Could be wrong, this is from memory and stuff I heard on the internet.
>>
>
> You should be a lot more careful about what you watch on the internet.
>
Possibly.
Then again, I guess a lot of the news I had seen had also been fed
through the lens of video game commentators and similar.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-04-17 14:18 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <10rt8f5$2d4lv$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #116001 |
On 17/04/2026 09:20, BGB wrote:
> On 4/17/2026 1:05 AM, David Brown wrote:
>> On 16/04/2026 20:15, BGB wrote:
>>> On 4/15/2026 5:44 PM, Bill Findlay wrote:
>>>> On 15 Apr 2026, David Brown wrote
>>>> (in article <10roqep$16j1j$1@dont-email.me>):
>>>>
>>>>> On 15/04/2026 17:36, quadi wrote:
>>>>>> On Wed, 15 Apr 2026 03:32:00 +0100, moi wrote:
>>>>>>> On 15/04/2026 01:44, MitchAlsup wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> One should also note: in the history of this system (~late 1930s)
>>>>>>>> to present: only 2 properly registered FA guns have been used in
>>>>>>>> any
>>>>>>>> crimes. {Anyone with a brain would say this is a pretty good
>>>>>>>> record}
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Anyone with a non-USAn brain would say this is utterly insane.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Utterly insane would be if the same procedure applied to
>>>>>> thermonuclear
>>>>>> warheads.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Of course, much about the consequences of the Second Amendment
>>>>>> indeed does
>>>>>> appear insane. The sensible thing to do would be to repeal it,
>>>>>> rather than
>>>>>> pretend it doesn't exist, or it doesn't mean what it says, and
>>>>>> hope the
>>>>>> Supreme Court will look the other way.
>>>>>
>>>>> [wise words omitted]
>>>>>
>>>>> That's just my two cents - coming from someone in a country ...
>>>>> where we have far more real-world freedoms than the USA.
>>>> That is the bit they really can't fathom.
>>>>
>>>
>>> ?...
>>>
>>
>> Note - I come from the UK originally, but live in Norway.
>>
>>> But, AFAIK, the UK is the place that went and banned:
>>> Sharp points on knives;
>>> Sharp points on scissors;
>>> Buying solder without having certifications;
>>> So, it is effectively sold black-market in small amounts,
>>> to the electronics hobbyists.
>>> ...
>>
>> Complete nonsense.
>>
>> But both the UK and Norway have restrictions on people carrying around
>> deadly weapons of all sorts. The freedom not to be stabbed, shot, or
>> otherwise injured or killed trumps the freedom to carry such weapons.
>>
>
> Fair enough.
>
> Later went and asked Gemini about it, it said that the laws restrict
> carrying things with sharp tips (like knives and similar) rather than
> possession of them (say, at a person's house).
I don't think any LLM is going to be a good source of information here.
Gemini might not be as bad as Grok, but AI will often miss the point,
and be heavily influenced by the kinds of drivel that is often published
on the net.
Basically, the laws say that if you are caught with a large screwdriver
that you are using to stab or threaten people, you will be charged and
treated as though you were carrying a knife for that purpose. Older
laws banned carrying knifes and the like in public places - newer laws
target weapons, where a "weapon" is anything that you use or plan to use
for violence or threats of violence.
>
> Apparently, the idea that it was a ban on all pointy things was an over-
> generalization that floats around on the internet.
>
Exactly. Social media rewards people who greatly exaggerate things to
make them sound dramatic. And political extremists love fear-mongering,
with a total disregard for the truth or subtleties of reality.
> ...
>
>
>>> And, where a person can be arrested, for stuff they say on social
>>> media (or "thought crime" as some are calling it);
>>
>> Only thoughtless people are calling it that. You've been watching
>> tool much Fox News - a channel that describes itself as
>> "entertainment" without any obligation to tell the truth.
>>
>
> Actually, mostly, it has been a mix of YouTube videos/shorts and
> Twitter/X threads...
>
If he were still alive, Goebbels would have banned Twatter for having
too much right-wing propaganda. It is not healthy to use it as a source
of information unless you want the calender dates for KKK meetings.
YouTube shorts are not much better. Research has shown again and again
that social media algorithms exaggerate from people's opinions and
interests - they provide echo chambers that move you further and further
from central or balanced positions. It is somewhat inevitable -
balanced opinions are not particularly interesting or engaging, so they
are not popular and don't generate revenue for the social media platform
or the content creator. The real world is seldom as exciting as
people's imaginations.
I'd recommend looking at a reality check site like snopes.com to get an
idea of how easily people get duped. Begin smart isn't enough (you are
a very smart guy) - you need to understand how you are being
manipulated. Ask yourself "Cui bono" ? Who is benefiting, in money,
power or influence?
>
>> The freedom of innocent people not to suffer abuse, hatred and
>> prejudice trumps the freedom of nasty little sods who think they have
>> the right to abuse others. And inciting hatred or encouraging others
>> to commit criminal behaviour is just as much a crime in the USA as the
>> UK.
>>
>
> OK.
>
> Some people were making it sound like they were opposing peoples'
> abilities to have and express opinions in general (though they didn't
> usually specify on what sorts of topics).
>
>
> Originally, seemed like, it could have been something like, say:
> Person says something bad about a political leader or similar;
> Political leader sees it and feels insulted and has person arrested.
> Or, something of this sort, ...
>
That does happen in some countries. There are plenty of dictatorships,
or partial dictatorships, where that kind of thing goes on. Journalists
are banned from official press conferences or buildings because they ask
awkward questions or publish things unflattering to the wannabe king.
Politicians get attacked for saying things like people have to follow
laws. The USA has gone seriously downhill in that respect in the last
16 months or so. Some other parts of the world are worse - sometimes
much worse. But most European countries have very strong freedom of
speech protection as long as you are not harming other people with your
speech. (Freedom of speech must be weighed against freedom /from/
speech - just like freedom of religion and freedom from religion.)
>
>
> But, yeah, in the US people usually say the First Amendment guarantees
> peoples' freedom to have and express opinions about whatever.
>
Many people do think that, as I understand it. But that's not what the
constitution says. In particular, it only limits what Congress and
federal authorities can do to stop people expressing themselves - it
does not in any way require non-government entities from allowing people
to say anything they want. Media (newspapers, TV, social media, etc.)
can impose whatever limitations they want.
> Though, OTOH, I guess things like social media platforms still have the
> ability to ban people from the platform if they go around spreading
> hate-speech or similar.
Correct. Equally, they are allowed to encourage hate-speech and ban
people arguing against it.
There are plenty of restrictions to free speech in the USA - you can't
incite violence, for example. And something you say might be considered
conspiracy to commit a crime. Things you say might fall foul of other
laws, such as harassment, psychological abuse, prejudice, etc. Other
countries' laws might put more emphasis on freedom from hate speech than
the USA, but the idea that the USA has freedom of speech and Europeans
do not is wrong.
>
> Apparently I guess that was a problem in the past with DJT, then he got
> banned off of Twitter, then he started his own social network, then Elon
> bought Twitter and renamed it X, and DJT got back on there, ...
>
>
>>> Where corporations can lead search-and-seizure operations for claimed
>>> IP violations;
>>
>> No, they can't.
>>
>> And in European countries, unlike the USA, corporations don't get to
>> lie and cheat then claim "freedom of speech".
>>
>
>
> Saw a thing not too long ago talking about how apparently Sega left some
> Nintendo devkits in an old office building, then abandoned the building,
> and later the building owners sold off all the old junk that was left in
> the buildings.
>
> Story goes that the guy who bought up some of the old junk posted about
> it on the internet, and then Sega + Nintendo + UK Police went in and
> arrested the guy and took all his stuff (then they released the guy, but
> he didn't get the stuff back), because the idea was that him having the
> devkits was considered as theft of intellectual property.
>
So what you are saying here is that the /police/ conducted a raid and
seizure in connection with suspected unlawfully obtained goods and/or
industrial espionage, acting on information provided by a company that
believed it was a victim of the crime? And that when the dust settled,
they realised that there was no intentional crime?
That's not the breakdown of free society as you implied - it's the
police doing their job of enforcing the law, but possibly making the
wrong judgement call. Police in every country have to make decisions
based on limited information, and sometimes they make the wrong
decision. (I don't know this case, and can't say if they were wrong or
right.)
>
> Eg (finding a few videos talking about one of the incidents):
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sy9Eb8J0xGk
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NU040CTdJI0
>
I do not want to click on your links and follow you down your rabbit
hole. The Youtube algorithm has learned that I like maths and physics
videos, some computing stuff, some comedy, linguistics, etc. I'd rather
it didn't think I was interested in conspiracy theories about the
breakdown of every country that does not follow Maga philosophies.
>>
>> Remember, freedoms are always a balance, not an absolute. Lots of
>> types of freedom for one person reduce other freedoms for other people.
>>
>
> OK.
>
>
>>> ...
>>>
>>>
>>> So, sorta like California but worse...
>>>
>>> California apparently banned the 60/40 lead/tin stuff IIRC, but still
>>> allows people to freely possess lead-free solder (so people
>>> apparently need to smuggle the 60/40 into CA if they want to use it).
>>> Everywhere else, 60/40 is OK. Well, and CA has the "age verification"
>>> controversy, etc.
>>
>> I can't answer for California, but if I want leaded solder I can just
>> order some. But the regulations against the use of lead in general
>> are a good thing - the freedom to drink water without lead trumps the
>> freedom of a handful of people to use cheaper and lower temperature
>> soldering irons.
>>
>
> Where I am, solder is sold on Amazon or similar...
>
> Had seen videos where people made it seem like solder was some sort of
> black-market contraband.
So you know you can get solder in the post in a couple of days, but you
have seen someone on a video saying it has been banned and you have to
smuggle it on the black market - and you believed the video, not your
own experience?
>
> Looking around, apparently the restrictions were specifically on lead-
> based solder though, rather than restricting all solder.
>
Of course. Lead is a neuropoison, and has caused significant reduction
in mental capacity (and other health problems) for vast numbers of
people. An argument has been made that the fall of the Roman Empire can
be partially blamed on lead pipes and lead dishes. Lead from petrol has
caused massive low-level poisoning. Lead in groundwater causes
poisoning. It makes a lot of sense to have regulations to reduce the
use of lead in other situations - such as solder - where there are
perfectly good alternatives.
>
> In the case of California, did see something not too long ago saying
> that they were trying to get something passed to ban personal ownership
> of 3D printers and CNC machines.
>
> Though, I didn't see anyone else talking about this, so it seemed
> unconfirmed.
>
Don't misunderstand me - sometimes it really is a case of politicians
doing stupid things. Sometimes it is for personal profit or the result
of lobbying, often it is well-intentioned but not matched by an
understanding of the implications. Here the lawmakers saw that people
can make gun parts on 3-D printers, and wanted to stop that from being
possible (fair enough as an aim). The resulting proposed legislation
would have banned all personal usage of 3-D printers - a real "throw the
baby out with the bathwater" solution.
>
> There is a lot more talking going on about the CA "OS age verification"
> bull, and now something saying that the US federal people are now
> looking into something similar (groan, this has a risk to potentially
> ruin open source and make everything suck...). Hopefully it goes the way
> of past proposals for bans on OSS and RISC-V and similar, ...
>
> So, not like US is exactly perfect either...
The situation here is that social media is not suitable or safe for
kids. (It is not safe or suitable for adults either, but it's harder to
argue that politically - "think of the kids" is always good for votes.)
Social media countries don't want to do anything about this, making any
kind of realistic registration or age checks, and they certainly don't
want to have to remove the dangerous crap they host. So they punt the
problem - they promise politicians lots of money if the politicians
impose laws saying the OS or other platforms must handle the age
verification. I don't know where this one will all end. (There's an
easy solution - social media companies could charge $10 a year per
account, payable only via credit card. That would immediately solve
much of the problems they cause.)
>
>
>
>>>
>>> Could be wrong, this is from memory and stuff I heard on the internet.
>>>
>>
>> You should be a lot more careful about what you watch on the internet.
>>
>
> Possibly.
>
> Then again, I guess a lot of the news I had seen had also been fed
> through the lens of video game commentators and similar.
>
Video game commentators are good for comments on video games.
You would do well to look at sites like ground.news or allsides.com that
make a specific point of showing news from multiple different sites to
help you understand the biases. Or look at multiple news sources that
are publicly funded but independent of any direct government control,
such as the BBC website. For privately owned news sources, find one
that charges you money - "free" sites still charge you, but in hidden
ways. No one site is perfect - you have to combine them.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-04-17 16:07 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <10rteqq$2gc5p$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #116006 |
David Brown wrote: > On 17/04/2026 09:20, BGB wrote: >> On 4/17/2026 1:05 AM, David Brown wrote: >>> Complete nonsense. >>> >>> But both the UK and Norway have restrictions on people carrying >>> around deadly weapons of all sorts. The freedom not to be stabbed, >>> shot, or otherwise injured or killed trumps the freedom to carry such >>> weapons. >>> >> >> Fair enough. >> >> Later went and asked Gemini about it, it said that the laws restrict >> carrying things with sharp tips (like knives and similar) rather than >> possession of them (say, at a person's house). > > I don't think any LLM is going to be a good source of information here. > Gemini might not be as bad as Grok, but AI will often miss the point, > and be heavily influenced by the kinds of drivel that is often published > on the net. > > Basically, the laws say that if you are caught with a large screwdriver > that you are using to stab or threaten people, you will be charged and > treated as though you were carrying a knife for that purpose. Older > laws banned carrying knifes and the like in public places - newer laws > target weapons, where a "weapon" is anything that you use or plan to use > for violence or threats of violence. Norway did not use to have any restrictions at all on tools, like knives/axes/scythes up to and including shotguns. The current regulations have explicit exceptions for knife carry in public plaes when those knives (or swords!) are part of uniform or traditional dress. I.e around May 17th it is perfectly fine to carry large amounts of metal (mostly silver) through airport security, but they might tell you that the silver-decorated knife should go in checked luggage. Similarly, Scouts' knives are fine anywhere. Regarding firearms the Norwegian regulations are still way less strict than the UK, pretty much anyone without a mental illness or felony record can legally own a handgun: You just need to start by becoming a member of a local pistol shooting club, then turn up regularly to practice using club guns (at least 10 times or more) over a year, then pass a police security vetting which check for those mental/felony bans. At this point you can legally buy something like a Glock or 1911 and get the serial number on your credit-card sized ownership card. If you are very active, then you can get separate permits for a primary and spare gun for each of the competition classes you regularly compete in, I know people with 10+ handguns in their gun safe. However, unlike the US, there is absolutely no way to get either an open or concealed carry permit unless you are military or police. Any handgun you own _must_ be stored in a proper gun safe, in can only be brought out for cleaning and to transport it to the shooting range. During that transport, the gun cannot be in the front seat with you, it has to stay in the trunk or back seat, unloaded of course, and still in its carrying box. Terje -- - <Terje.Mathisen at tmsw.no> "almost all programming can be viewed as an exercise in caching"
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-04-17 16:57 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <10rthoh$2h2lt$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #116009 |
On 17/04/2026 16:07, Terje Mathisen wrote: > David Brown wrote: >> On 17/04/2026 09:20, BGB wrote: >>> On 4/17/2026 1:05 AM, David Brown wrote: >>>> Complete nonsense. >>>> >>>> But both the UK and Norway have restrictions on people carrying >>>> around deadly weapons of all sorts. The freedom not to be stabbed, >>>> shot, or otherwise injured or killed trumps the freedom to carry >>>> such weapons. >>>> >>> >>> Fair enough. >>> >>> Later went and asked Gemini about it, it said that the laws restrict >>> carrying things with sharp tips (like knives and similar) rather than >>> possession of them (say, at a person's house). >> >> I don't think any LLM is going to be a good source of information >> here. Gemini might not be as bad as Grok, but AI will often miss the >> point, and be heavily influenced by the kinds of drivel that is often >> published on the net. >> >> Basically, the laws say that if you are caught with a large >> screwdriver that you are using to stab or threaten people, you will be >> charged and treated as though you were carrying a knife for that >> purpose. Older laws banned carrying knifes and the like in public >> places - newer laws target weapons, where a "weapon" is anything that >> you use or plan to use for violence or threats of violence. > > Norway did not use to have any restrictions at all on tools, like > knives/axes/scythes up to and including shotguns. > > The current regulations have explicit exceptions for knife carry in > public plaes when those knives (or swords!) are part of uniform or > traditional dress. I.e around May 17th it is perfectly fine to carry > large amounts of metal (mostly silver) through airport security, but > they might tell you that the silver-decorated knife should go in checked > luggage. > I were my sgian-dubh with my kilt. Despite the name, it's not very hidden. It used to be legal to have one in the cabin of planes in the UK, as long as it stayed in your sock. > Similarly, Scouts' knives are fine anywhere. > > Regarding firearms the Norwegian regulations are still way less strict > than the UK, pretty much anyone without a mental illness or felony > record can legally own a handgun: > > You just need to start by becoming a member of a local pistol shooting > club, then turn up regularly to practice using club guns (at least 10 > times or more) over a year, then pass a police security vetting which > check for those mental/felony bans. > > At this point you can legally buy something like a Glock or 1911 and get > the serial number on your credit-card sized ownership card. > > If you are very active, then you can get separate permits for a primary > and spare gun for each of the competition classes you regularly compete > in, I know people with 10+ handguns in their gun safe. > > However, unlike the US, there is absolutely no way to get either an open > or concealed carry permit unless you are military or police. Indeed. And you have to keep them locked in a gun safe, which the police can check at short notice. Similarly, you can own a hunting rifle if you pass the hunting tests and are vetted by the police. > > Any handgun you own _must_ be stored in a proper gun safe, in can only > be brought out for cleaning and to transport it to the shooting range. > > During that transport, the gun cannot be in the front seat with you, it > has to stay in the trunk or back seat, unloaded of course, and still in > its carrying box. > Basically, in Norway you can have guns for sport or hunting, but not for threatening or shooting people. The gun laws in the UK are a lot more restrictive (after all, there's not nearly as much scope for hunting in most of the UK). Farmers can get shotgun licenses, but I think if you have a pistol for sport it has to be kept at the pistol club, not at home. (I have not looked at the rules in detail, so I could be wrong or out-dated.)
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