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Groups > comp.arch > #115231 > unrolled thread

Concertina II Instead

Started byquadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid>
First post2026-03-07 00:15 +0000
Last post2026-03-31 13:11 +0000
Articles 20 on this page of 597 — 25 participants

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Contents

  Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-03-07 00:15 +0000
    Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-03-07 19:00 +0000
      Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-03-08 01:14 +0000
        Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-03-08 06:08 +0000
          Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-03-08 18:43 +0000
            Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-03-10 01:00 +0000
              Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-03-10 13:21 +0000
                Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-03-10 15:15 +0000
                  Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-03-13 05:02 +0000
                    Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-03-13 16:08 +0000
                      Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-03-13 16:28 +0000
                        Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-03-13 16:33 +0000
                          Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-03-13 16:43 +0000
                          Re: Concertina II Instead Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2026-03-13 10:24 -0700
                            Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-03-13 22:59 +0000
                            Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-03-14 03:17 +0000
                          Re: Concertina II Instead Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-03-14 14:55 +0000
                            Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-03-14 22:55 +0000
                            Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-03-14 22:58 +0000
                              Re: Concertina II Instead Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-03-14 23:36 +0000
                                Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-03-15 01:14 +0000
                                  Re: Concertina II Instead Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-03-15 08:35 +0000
                                    Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-03-15 17:43 +0000
                              Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-03-14 23:48 +0000
                                Re: Concertina II Instead antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-03-15 19:47 +0000
                                  Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-03-15 20:56 +0000
                                Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-03-17 18:16 +0000
                                  Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-03-17 20:52 +0000
                                  Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-05-01 01:34 +0000
                                    Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-05-01 03:11 +0000
                                      Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-05-01 05:16 +0000
                                        Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-05-01 14:18 +0000
                                          Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-05-05 04:33 +0000
                                            Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-05-05 14:02 +0000
                                    Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-05-01 17:36 +0000
                                      Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-05-01 19:00 +0000
                                        Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-05-01 19:25 +0000
                                          Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-05-04 02:34 +0000
                                            Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-05-04 02:45 +0000
                                              Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-05-04 21:43 +0000
                                            Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-05-04 18:06 +0000
                                              Re: Concertina II Instead BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-05-04 13:46 -0500
                                              Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-05-06 01:10 +0000
                                                Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-05-06 17:19 +0000
                                              Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-05-18 05:24 +0000
                                        Re: Concertina II Instead Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2026-05-01 12:29 -0700
                                          Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-05-02 01:41 +0000
                                            Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-05-02 02:17 +0000
                                              Re: Concertina II Instead BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-05-02 02:37 -0500
                                              Re: Concertina II Instead Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2026-05-02 10:01 -0700
                                                Re: Concertina II Instead Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2026-05-02 11:22 -0700
                                                  Re: Concertina II Instead BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-05-02 13:58 -0500
                                                Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-05-02 19:00 +0000
                                          Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-05-02 05:09 +0000
                                            Re: Concertina II Instead Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2026-05-02 05:37 -0700
                                              Re: Concertina II Instead Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-05-02 15:57 +0000
                                                Re: base, index, and so forth Concertina II Instead John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-05-02 18:21 +0000
                                                  Re: base, index, and so forth Concertina II Instead Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2026-05-02 12:31 -0700
                                                    Re: base, index, and so forth Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-05-02 20:21 +0000
                                                      Re: base, index, and so forth Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-05-02 21:29 +0000
                                                        Re: base, index, and so forth Concertina II Instead George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2026-05-03 21:06 -0400
                                                          Re: base, index, and so forth Concertina II Instead Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> - 2026-05-05 10:12 +0200
                                                            Re: base, index, and so forth Concertina II Instead George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2026-05-05 11:55 -0400
                                                              Re: base, index, and so forth Concertina II Instead Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> - 2026-05-05 21:05 +0200
                                                      Re: base, index, and so forth Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-05-03 08:47 +0000
                                              Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-05-02 17:25 +0000
                                                Re: Concertina II Instead Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2026-05-02 11:05 -0700
                                                  Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-05-02 20:35 +0000
                                                    Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-05-02 21:42 +0000
                                                      Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-05-03 13:37 +0000
                                                Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-05-02 19:02 +0000
                                              Re: Concertina II Instead anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-05-02 18:10 +0000
                                                Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-05-02 19:10 +0000
                                            Re: Concertina II Instead scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-05-02 15:44 +0000
                                              Re: Concertina II Instead Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2026-05-02 09:45 -0700
                                              Re: index registers, Concertina II Instead John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-05-02 18:34 +0000
                                            Re: Concertina II Instead anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-05-02 17:35 +0000
                                              Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-05-02 21:53 +0000
                                              Re: immediates, Concertina II Instead John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-05-02 22:23 +0000
                                                Re: immediates, Concertina II Instead anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-05-03 11:45 +0000
                                                  Re: immediates, Concertina II Instead John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-05-03 16:27 +0000
                                            Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-05-02 18:33 +0000
                                              Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-05-04 02:26 +0000
                                                Re: Concertina II Instead anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-05-04 05:45 +0000
                                                  Re: Concertina II Instead Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2026-05-04 20:00 -0400
                                              Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-05-06 01:06 +0000
                                          Re: Concertina II Instead anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-05-02 06:19 +0000
                                            Re: Concertina II Instead BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-05-02 03:33 -0500
                                            Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-05-02 12:15 +0000
                                              Adressing modes (was: Concertina II Instead) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-05-02 17:55 +0000
                                                Re: Adressing modes (was: Concertina II Instead) MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-05-02 19:08 +0000
                                              Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-05-02 18:48 +0000
                                                Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-05-02 21:59 +0000
                                      Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-05-02 23:04 +0000
                              Re: Concertina II Instead jgd@cix.co.uk (John Dallman) - 2026-03-15 14:35 +0000
                                Re: Concertina II Instead EricP <ThatWouldBeTelling@thevillage.com> - 2026-03-15 15:47 -0400
                                Re: Concertina II Instead BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-03-16 04:16 -0500
                                  Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-03-17 17:53 +0000
                                    Re: Concertina II Instead scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-03-17 19:25 +0000
                                      Re: Concertina II Instead BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-03-18 13:51 -0500
                                        Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-03-18 19:55 +0000
                                        Re: Concertina II Instead scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-03-18 21:08 +0000
                                      Re: Concertina II Instead Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-03-19 21:15 +0000
                                        Re: Concertina II Instead jgd@cix.co.uk (John Dallman) - 2026-03-22 10:19 +0000
                                        Re: Concertina II Instead antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-03-22 23:06 +0000
                                          Re: Concertina II Instead anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-03-23 07:13 +0000
                                      Re: Concertina II Instead "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-03-19 15:48 -0700
                                        Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-03-20 01:42 +0000
                                          Re: Concertina II Instead "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-03-20 00:34 -0700
                                            Re: Concertina II Instead "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-03-20 00:36 -0700
                                  Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-03-17 19:25 +0000
                                    Re: Concertina II Instead BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-03-17 17:57 -0500
                                  Re: Concertina II Instead antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-03-18 00:20 +0000
                                    Re: Concertina II Instead Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-03-19 06:56 +0000
                                      Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-03-19 22:26 +0000
                                      Re: Concertina II Instead antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-03-20 01:25 +0000
                                  Re: Concertina II Instead Robert Finch <robfi680@gmail.com> - 2026-03-17 20:30 -0400
                                  Re: Concertina II Instead jgd@cix.co.uk (John Dallman) - 2026-03-19 00:20 +0000
                                    Re: Concertina II Instead Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-03-19 12:06 +0200
                                      Re: Concertina II Instead jgd@cix.co.uk (John Dallman) - 2026-03-19 10:46 +0000
                                        Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-03-19 16:15 +0000
                                          Re: Concertina II Instead scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-03-19 16:22 +0000
                                          Re: Concertina II Instead Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-03-19 19:00 +0200
                                      Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-03-19 22:32 +0000
                                        Re: Concertina II Instead Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-03-20 01:13 +0200
                                          Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-03-20 01:43 +0000
                                          Re: Concertina II Instead Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-03-20 07:23 +0000
                                            Re: Concertina II Instead Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2026-03-20 09:27 -0400
                                            Re: Concertina II Instead Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-03-20 16:01 +0200
                                          Re: Concertina II Instead Andy Valencia <vandys@vsta.org> - 2026-03-20 07:19 -0700
                                            Re: Concertina II Instead Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-03-20 17:29 +0200
                                              Re: Concertina II Instead anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-03-21 07:06 +0000
                                                Re: Concertina II Instead Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2026-03-21 06:06 -0700
                                                  Re: Concertina II Instead anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-03-21 16:21 +0000
                                                    Re: Concertina II Instead Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-03-22 01:00 +0200
                                                      Re: POWER trends, Concertina II Instead John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-03-22 01:12 +0000
                                                        Re: POWER trends, Concertina II Instead Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-03-22 03:28 +0200
                                                          Re: POWER trends, Concertina II Instead anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-03-22 09:48 +0000
                                                            Re: POWER trends, Concertina II Instead John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-03-22 17:57 +0000
                                                          Re: POWER trends, Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-03-23 19:18 +0000
                                                            Re: POWER trends, Concertina II Instead John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-03-23 21:10 +0000
                                                            Re: POWER trends, Concertina II Instead Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-03-23 21:38 +0000
                                                              Re: POWER trends, Concertina II Instead anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-03-24 18:12 +0000
                                                                Re: POWER trends, Concertina II Instead Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-03-25 20:31 +0000
                                                                  Re: POWER trends, Concertina II Instead Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-03-25 23:05 +0200
                                                                    Re: POWER trends, Concertina II Instead Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-03-25 21:11 +0000
                                                                  Re: POWER trends, Concertina II Instead Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> - 2026-03-25 22:34 +0100
                                                                  Re: POWER trends, Concertina II Instead anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-03-26 22:24 +0000
                                                                    Re: POWER trends, Concertina II Instead Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-03-27 03:50 +0300
                                                                      Re: POWER trends, Concertina II Instead anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-03-27 08:12 +0000
                                                                      Re: POWER trends, Concertina II Instead Niklas Holsti <niklas.holsti@tidorum.invalid> - 2026-03-27 10:33 +0200
                                                                        Re: POWER trends, Concertina II Instead Bill Findlay <findlaybill@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2026-03-27 16:41 +0000
                                                                        Re: POWER trends, Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-03-27 18:53 +0000
                                                                    multi-tasking performance on one core (was: POWER trends) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-03-27 08:37 +0000
                                                                    Re: POWER trends, Concertina II Instead jgd@cix.co.uk (John Dallman) - 2026-03-27 12:46 +0000
                                                            Re: POWER trends, Concertina II Instead Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-03-24 10:41 +0200
                                                              Re: POWER trends, Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-03-24 11:36 +0000
                                                        Re: POWER trends, Concertina II Instead anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-03-22 08:49 +0000
                                                          Re: POWER trends, Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-03-27 12:49 +0000
                                                            Re: POWER trends, Concertina II Instead jgd@cix.co.uk (John Dallman) - 2026-03-27 13:47 +0000
                                                              Re: POWER trends, Concertina II Instead Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-03-27 17:27 +0000
                                                            byte order (was: POWER trends, Concertina II Instead) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-03-27 18:53 +0000
                                                      Power (was: Concertina II Instead) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-03-22 08:31 +0000
                                                        Re: Power (was: Concertina II Instead) quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-03-26 20:00 +0000
                                                          Re: z, was Power (was: Concertina II Instead) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-03-27 01:20 +0000
                                                          Re: Power (was: Concertina II Instead) Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-03-27 07:21 +0000
                                                            Re: Power (was: Concertina II Instead) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-03-27 08:07 +0000
                                                              Re: System z cpu error recovery [was Power] EricP <ThatWouldBeTelling@thevillage.com> - 2026-03-27 09:08 -0400
                                                            Re: Power (was: Concertina II Instead) MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-03-27 18:52 +0000
                                                              Re: Power (was: Concertina II Instead) Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-03-27 21:42 +0000
                                                    Re: Concertina II Instead Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2026-03-21 19:57 -0700
                                                      Re: Concertina II Instead anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-03-22 09:06 +0000
                                                      Re: Concertina II Instead Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-03-22 10:17 +0000
                                                    Re: Concertina II Instead Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-03-22 10:12 +0000
                                                SPARC M8 (was: Concertina II Instead) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-03-21 16:44 +0000
                                                Re: Concertina II Instead antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-03-24 04:09 +0000
                                                  Re: Concertina II Instead jgd@cix.co.uk (John Dallman) - 2026-03-25 11:24 +0000
                                Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-03-17 19:12 +0000
                                Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-05-03 13:22 +0000
                                  Re: Concertina II Instead EricP <ThatWouldBeTelling@thevillage.com> - 2026-05-03 11:47 -0400
                                    Re: Concertina II Instead Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-05-04 05:59 +0000
                                      Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-05-04 16:38 +0000
                                        Re: Concertina II Instead jgd@cix.co.uk (John Dallman) - 2026-05-06 18:58 +0100
                                          Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-05-07 23:15 +0000
                                            Re: Concertina II Instead jgd@cix.co.uk (John Dallman) - 2026-05-11 15:34 +0100
                                              x86s (was: Concertina II Instead) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-05-11 16:55 +0000
                                                Re: x86s (was: Concertina II Instead) MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-05-11 18:24 +0000
                                              Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-05-12 15:58 +0000
                                                Re: Concertina II Instead scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-05-12 18:16 +0000
                                                Re: Concertina II Instead jgd@cix.co.uk (John Dallman) - 2026-05-12 22:52 +0100
                                                  Re: Concertina II Instead scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-05-12 22:12 +0000
                                                    Re: Concertina II Instead jgd@cix.co.uk (John Dallman) - 2026-05-13 19:33 +0100
                                                      Re: Concertina II Instead scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-05-13 18:47 +0000
                                                    Re: Concertina II Instead anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-05-13 18:07 +0000
                                                      Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-05-13 20:51 +0000
                                                      Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-05-15 16:02 +0000
                                                        Re: Concertina II Instead David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-05-16 11:20 +0200
                                                  Re: Concertina II Instead Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-05-14 21:10 +0000
                                                    Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-05-15 16:05 +0000
                                                      Re: 16 vs 32 bits, Concertina II Instead John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-05-15 18:11 +0000
                                                      Re: Concertina II Instead Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-05-15 18:19 +0000
                                                        Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-05-15 20:07 +0000
                                                          Re: Concertina II Instead Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-05-15 22:19 +0000
                                    Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-05-04 16:39 +0000
                                    Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-05-08 18:12 +0000
                                      Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-05-08 20:11 +0000
                                      Re: Concertina II Instead EricP <ThatWouldBeTelling@thevillage.com> - 2026-05-08 16:55 -0400
                                        Re: Concertina II Instead scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-05-08 21:21 +0000
                                          Re: Concertina II Instead EricP <ThatWouldBeTelling@thevillage.com> - 2026-05-10 08:59 -0400
                                            Re: Concertina II Instead anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-05-10 15:59 +0000
                                              Re: VAX multiply, Concertina II Instead John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-05-10 19:09 +0000
                                                Re: VAX multiply, Concertina II Instead EricP <ThatWouldBeTelling@thevillage.com> - 2026-05-11 12:20 -0400
                                                  Re: VAX multiply, Concertina II Instead John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-05-11 16:58 +0000
                                                    Re: VAX multiply, Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-05-11 18:26 +0000
                                                    Re: VAX multiply, Concertina II Instead Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-05-14 13:27 +0000
                                              Re: Concertina II Instead EricP <ThatWouldBeTelling@thevillage.com> - 2026-05-12 15:35 -0400
                                                Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-05-12 20:22 +0000
                                                  Re: Concertina II Instead EricP <ThatWouldBeTelling@thevillage.com> - 2026-05-12 17:47 -0400
                                                  Re: Concertina II Instead Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-05-15 13:54 +0000
                                                    Re: Concertina II Instead EricP <ThatWouldBeTelling@thevillage.com> - 2026-05-15 11:30 -0400
                                                      Re: Concertina II Instead Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-05-15 17:08 +0000
                                            Re: Concertina II Instead Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2026-05-10 16:23 -0400
                                              Re: Concertina II Instead anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-05-11 07:47 +0000
                                                Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-05-11 18:16 +0000
                                              Re: Concertina II Instead EricP <ThatWouldBeTelling@thevillage.com> - 2026-05-11 09:02 -0400
                                                Re: Concertina II Instead Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> - 2026-05-11 16:21 +0200
                                                Re: Concertina II Instead Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-05-12 07:54 +0000
                                        Re: Concertina II Instead anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-05-09 17:07 +0000
                                          Re: Concertina II Instead EricP <ThatWouldBeTelling@thevillage.com> - 2026-05-10 10:54 -0400
                                            Re: Concertina II Instead anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-05-10 16:05 +0000
                                        Re: Concertina II Instead Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-05-09 19:41 +0000
                                          Re: Concertina II Instead EricP <ThatWouldBeTelling@thevillage.com> - 2026-05-11 14:44 -0400
                                            Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-05-11 20:51 +0000
                                              Re: Concertina II Instead EricP <ThatWouldBeTelling@thevillage.com> - 2026-05-15 09:03 -0400
                Re: Concertina II Instead BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-03-10 16:57 -0500
                  Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-03-11 02:04 +0000
                    Re: Concertina II Instead BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-03-15 02:26 -0500
                      Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-03-15 17:55 +0000
                        Re: Concertina II Instead jgd@cix.co.uk (John Dallman) - 2026-03-15 19:42 +0000
                          Re: emulation on the 360, Concertina II Instead John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-03-15 20:36 +0000
                          Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-03-15 20:42 +0000
                            Re: Concertina II Instead jgd@cix.co.uk (John Dallman) - 2026-03-17 20:18 +0000
                              Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-03-17 20:28 +0000
                                Re: Concertina II Instead Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2026-03-18 00:18 -0700
                                  Re: Concertina II Instead John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-03-18 17:35 +0000
                                    Re: Concertina II Instead Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2026-03-23 21:10 -0700
                              Re: Concertina II Instead EricP <ThatWouldBeTelling@thevillage.com> - 2026-03-17 17:09 -0400
                              Re: Concertina II Instead Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-03-17 21:43 +0000
                                Re: microcode, Concertina II Instead John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-03-17 22:07 +0000
                                  Re: microcode, Concertina II Instead Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2026-03-17 18:52 -0700
                                    Re: microcode, Concertina II Instead scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-03-18 15:01 +0000
                                    Re: microcode, Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-03-18 16:01 +0000
                                      Re: microcode, Concertina II Instead scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-03-18 16:56 +0000
                                        Re: microcode, Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-03-18 18:24 +0000
                                Re: Concertina II Instead antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-03-18 01:08 +0000
                                  Re: Concertina II Instead Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2026-03-17 18:59 -0700
                                    Re: Concertina II Instead Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2026-03-18 00:21 -0700
                                  Re: Concertina II Instead Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-03-22 11:22 +0000
                                    Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-03-23 19:16 +0000
                                      Re: Concertina II Instead BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-03-23 14:36 -0500
                                        Re: Concertina II Instead Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2026-03-23 15:52 -0400
                                          Re: Concertina II Instead BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-03-23 17:38 -0500
                                            Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-03-24 11:40 +0000
                                              Re: Concertina II Instead BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-03-24 14:35 -0500
                                                Re: Concertina II Instead Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2026-03-24 13:48 -0700
                                                  Re: Concertina II Instead BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-03-24 18:09 -0500
                                                    Re: Concertina II Instead Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2026-03-24 16:33 -0700
                                                      Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-03-25 01:21 +0000
                                                        Re: Concertina II Instead Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2026-03-24 18:37 -0700
                                                          Re: Concertina II Instead BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-03-25 02:47 -0500
                                                            Re: Concertina II Instead Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-03-25 18:31 +0000
                                                              Re: Concertina II Instead Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2026-03-25 13:59 -0700
                                                                Re: Concertina II Instead Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-03-25 23:12 +0200
                                                                  Re: Concertina II Instead BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-03-25 16:29 -0500
                                                                  Re: Concertina II Instead Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-03-26 20:29 +0000
                                                                    Re: Concertina II Instead Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-03-27 03:32 +0300
                                                                      Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-03-27 12:45 +0000
                                                                        Re: Concertina II Instead Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-03-27 16:54 +0300
                                                                        Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-03-27 18:56 +0000
                                                                          Re: Concertina II Instead BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-03-27 14:31 -0500
                                                                          Re: Concertina II Instead Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-03-28 11:54 +0000
                                                                            Re: Concertina II Instead BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-03-28 13:56 -0500
                                                                      Re: Concertina II Instead Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-03-27 21:38 +0000
                                                                        Re: Concertina II Instead BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-03-27 20:59 -0500
                                                                          Re: Concertina II Instead Robert Finch <robfi680@gmail.com> - 2026-03-28 02:21 -0400
                                                                            Re: Concertina II Instead BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-03-28 04:09 -0500
                                                                            Re: Concertina II Instead anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-03-28 19:23 +0000
                                                                              Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-03-28 20:47 +0000
                                                                                Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-03-30 03:47 +0000
                                                                                  Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-03-30 03:50 +0000
                                                                                  Re: Concertina II Instead Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2026-03-31 12:21 -0400
                                                                                    Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-04-01 07:49 +0000
                                                                                      Re: Concertina II Instead Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-04-01 19:14 +0000
                                                                    Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-03-27 18:50 +0000
                                                                      Re: Concertina II Instead Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-03-28 08:41 +0000
                                                                    Re: Concertina II Instead BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-03-27 14:25 -0500
                                                              Re: Concertina II Instead BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-03-25 16:13 -0500
                                                          Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-03-25 18:03 +0000
                                            Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-03-24 19:19 +0000
                                              Re: Concertina II Instead BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-03-24 17:40 -0500
                                                Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-03-25 01:20 +0000
                        Re: Concertina II Instead BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-03-15 16:53 -0500
                          Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-03-16 02:09 +0000
                            Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-03-16 02:37 +0000
                              Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-03-16 02:51 +0000
                            Re: Concertina II Instead BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-03-16 05:20 -0500
                            Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-03-16 13:24 +0000
                              Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-03-16 18:43 +0000
                          Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-03-16 21:44 +0000
          Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-03-08 20:44 +0000
            Re: Concertina II Instead BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-03-08 17:20 -0500
          Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-03-09 02:53 +0000
            Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-03-09 03:29 +0000
      Re: Concertina II Instead BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-03-08 05:13 -0500
      Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-03-16 22:09 +0000
        Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-03-16 22:36 +0000
          Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-03-16 23:46 +0000
            Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-03-17 00:06 +0000
              Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-03-17 08:00 +0000
                Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-03-17 15:36 +0000
                Re: Concertina II Instead Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2026-03-17 09:09 -0700
                  Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-03-17 18:36 +0000
                  Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-03-18 01:41 +0000
                    Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-03-18 16:00 +0000
                      Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-03-19 05:13 +0000
                        Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-03-19 22:24 +0000
                          Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-03-20 02:20 +0000
                            Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-03-20 19:29 +0000
                              Re: Concertina II Instead BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-03-20 16:56 -0500
                              Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-03-21 04:44 +0000
                                Re: Concertina II Instead Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2026-04-01 07:58 -0700
                                  Re: Concertina II Instead BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-04-01 14:53 -0500
                                  Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-04-03 04:12 +0000
                                    Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-04-03 05:51 +0000
                                      Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-04-03 07:04 +0000
                                        Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-04-03 23:35 +0000
                                      Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-04-03 17:54 +0000
                                    Re: Concertina II Instead jgd@cix.co.uk (John Dallman) - 2026-04-03 14:47 +0100
                                      Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-04-03 15:08 +0000
                                        Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-04-03 16:28 +0000
                                          Re: Concertina II Instead jgd@cix.co.uk (John Dallman) - 2026-04-03 19:48 +0100
                                            Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-04-03 20:37 +0000
                                            Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-04-03 22:03 +0000
                                              Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-04-03 23:45 +0000
                                                Re: Concertina II Instead jgd@cix.co.uk (John Dallman) - 2026-04-04 13:29 +0100
                                                  Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-04-04 14:29 +0000
                                                    Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-04-04 14:51 +0000
                                                      Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-04-04 15:40 +0000
                                                  Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-04-04 15:59 +0000
                                                    Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-04-04 19:36 +0000
                                                      Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-04-06 23:17 +0000
                                                        Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-04-07 14:20 +0000
                                                          Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-04-07 14:50 +0000
                                                            Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-04-07 15:25 +0000
                                                              Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-04-07 16:59 +0000
                                                                Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-04-08 20:25 +0000
                                                                  Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-04-09 01:27 +0000
                                                                  Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-04-09 02:24 +0000
                                                                    Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-04-12 04:40 +0000
                                                                      Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-04-12 18:18 +0000
                                                                        Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-04-13 19:41 +0000
                                                                          Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-04-13 21:37 +0000
                                                                            Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-04-14 12:48 +0000
                                                                              Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-04-14 18:08 +0000
                                                                                Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-04-14 22:31 +0000
                                                                                  Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-04-15 15:12 +0000
                                                                                    Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-04-17 04:49 +0000
                                                                                      Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-04-17 05:21 +0000
                                                                                        Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-04-17 21:33 +0000
                                                                                          Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-04-20 17:17 +0000
                                                                                Re: Concertina II Instead BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-04-15 02:53 -0500
                                                    Re: Concertina II Instead jgd@cix.co.uk (John Dallman) - 2026-04-04 22:53 +0100
                                                      Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-04-04 23:49 +0000
                                                      Re: Concertina II Instead antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-04-05 03:15 +0000
                                                      Re: Concertina II Instead anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-04-05 09:38 +0000
                                                        Re: Concertina II Instead Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-04-05 13:52 +0300
                                                          Re: Concertina II Instead anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-04-05 13:48 +0000
                                                            Re: Concertina II Instead Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-04-05 18:34 +0300
                                                        Re: Concertina II Instead jgd@cix.co.uk (John Dallman) - 2026-04-05 12:43 +0100
                                                          Re: Concertina II Instead anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-04-05 14:30 +0000
                                                          Re: Concertina II Instead BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-04-06 01:16 -0500
                                                            Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-04-06 16:33 +0000
                                                              Re: Concertina II Instead BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-04-06 16:22 -0500
                                                                Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-04-06 22:41 +0000
                                                                  Re: Concertina II Instead Robert Finch <robfi680@gmail.com> - 2026-04-06 23:31 -0400
                                                                    Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-04-07 04:48 +0000
                                                                      Re: Concertina II Instead BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-04-07 03:12 -0500
                                                                        Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-04-07 10:24 +0000
                                                                          Re: Concertina II Instead BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-04-07 13:23 -0500
                                                                            Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-04-07 19:32 +0000
                                                                              Re: Concertina II Instead BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-04-07 14:52 -0500
                                                                                Re: Concertina II Instead Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-04-08 19:50 +0000
                                                                                  Re: Concertina II Instead BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-04-08 15:03 -0500
                                                                                    Re: Concertina II Instead Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2026-04-08 15:15 -0700
                                                                                      Re: Concertina II Instead BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-04-08 23:34 -0500
                                                                                        Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-04-09 17:35 +0000
                                                                                          Re: Concertina II Instead BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-04-09 15:44 -0500
                                                                                            Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-04-10 01:11 +0000
                                                                                              Re: Concertina II Instead BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-04-09 21:09 -0500
                                                                                                Re: Concertina II Instead Robert Finch <robfi680@gmail.com> - 2026-04-11 01:41 -0400
                                                                                                  Re: Concertina II Instead BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-04-11 01:45 -0500
                                                                                                    Re: Concertina II Instead Robert Finch <robfi680@gmail.com> - 2026-04-11 07:32 -0400
                                                                                                      Re: Concertina II Instead Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-04-11 13:41 +0000
                                                                                                        Re: Concertina II Instead Robert Finch <robfi680@gmail.com> - 2026-04-11 19:22 -0400
                                                                                                          Re: Concertina II Instead Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-04-12 06:42 +0000
                                                                                                            Re: Concertina II Instead Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-04-12 07:24 +0000
                                                                                                              Re: Concertina II Instead Robert Finch <robfi680@gmail.com> - 2026-04-12 06:55 -0400
                                                                                                                Re: Concertina II Instead Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-04-12 12:33 +0000
                                                                                                                  Re: Concertina II Instead Robert Finch <robfi680@gmail.com> - 2026-04-12 12:18 -0400
                                                                                                              Re: Concertina II Instead BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-04-12 11:22 -0500
                                                                                                                Re: Concertina II Instead Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-04-12 16:52 +0000
                                                                                                              Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-04-12 18:09 +0000
                                                                                                      Re: Concertina II Instead Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2026-04-11 07:28 -0700
                                                                                                        Re: Concertina II Instead BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-04-11 13:01 -0500
                                                                                                          Re: Concertina II Instead Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2026-04-12 10:12 -0700
                                                                                                            Re: Concertina II Instead BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-04-13 15:51 -0500
                                                                                                              Re: Concertina II Instead Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-04-13 21:11 +0000
                                                                                                                Re: Concertina II Instead BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-04-13 17:07 -0500
                                                                                                                Re: Concertina II Instead Robert Finch <robfi680@gmail.com> - 2026-04-13 18:36 -0400
                                                                                                                  Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-04-14 01:19 +0000
                                                                                                                    Re: Concertina II Instead Robert Finch <robfi680@gmail.com> - 2026-04-13 22:50 -0400
                                                                                                                      Re: Concertina II Instead Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-04-14 05:31 +0000
                                                                                                                        Re: Concertina II Instead Robert Finch <robfi680@gmail.com> - 2026-04-14 09:07 -0400
                                                                                                                          Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-04-14 18:11 +0000
                                                                                                                    Re: Concertina II Instead BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-04-14 00:51 -0500
                                                                                                                      Re: Concertina II Instead Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-04-14 06:00 +0000
                                                                                                                        Re: Concertina II Instead BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-04-14 03:09 -0500
                                                                                                                          Re: Concertina II Instead Robert Finch <robfi680@gmail.com> - 2026-04-14 08:30 -0400
                                                                                                                            Re: Concertina II Instead scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-04-14 14:34 +0000
                                                                                                                            Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-04-14 18:07 +0000
                                                                                                                              Re: Concertina II Instead scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-04-14 19:05 +0000
                                                                                                                          Re: Concertina II Instead scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-04-14 14:32 +0000
                                                                                                                          Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-04-14 16:18 +0000
                                                                                                                            Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-04-14 18:13 +0000
                                                                                                                              Re: Concertina II Instead scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-04-14 19:07 +0000
                                                                                                                                Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-04-14 19:30 +0000
                                                                                                                                  Re: Concertina II Instead BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-04-15 02:53 -0500
                                                                                                                              Re: Concertina II Instead Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> - 2026-04-15 21:22 +0200
                                                                                                                            Re: Concertina II Instead Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> - 2026-04-15 21:14 +0200
                                                                                                                          Re: Concertina II Instead Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-04-14 16:35 +0000
                                                                                                                            Re: Concertina II Instead BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-04-14 16:14 -0500
                                                                                                                              Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-04-15 00:44 +0000
                                                                                                                                Re: Concertina II Instead BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-04-14 21:24 -0500
                                                                                                                                Re: Concertina II Instead moi <findlaybill@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2026-04-15 03:32 +0100
                                                                                                                                  Re: Machineguns [was re: Concertina II Instead] cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-04-15 11:30 +0000
                                                                                                                                    Re: Machineguns [was re: Concertina II Instead] David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-04-15 15:48 +0200
                                                                                                                                      Re: Machineguns [was re: Concertina II Instead] cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-04-15 13:56 +0000
                                                                                                                                      Re: Machineguns [was re: Concertina II Instead] scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-04-15 14:34 +0000
                                                                                                                                        Re: Machineguns [was re: Concertina II Instead] cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-04-15 16:25 +0000
                                                                                                                                          Re: Machineguns [was re: Concertina II Instead] MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-04-15 17:54 +0000
                                                                                                                                            Re: Machineguns [was re: Concertina II Instead] cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-04-15 18:48 +0000
                                                                                                                                          Re: Machineguns [was re: Concertina II Instead] "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-04-16 14:59 -0700
                                                                                                                                        Re: Machineguns [was re: Concertina II Instead] Andy Valencia <vandys@vsta.org> - 2026-04-15 09:52 -0700
                                                                                                                                        Re: Machineguns [was re: Concertina II Instead] MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-04-15 19:24 +0000
                                                                                                                                          Re: Machineguns [was re: Concertina II Instead] scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-04-15 20:00 +0000
                                                                                                                                            Re: Machineguns [was re: Concertina II Instead] MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-04-16 17:27 +0000
                                                                                                                                    Re: Machineguns [was re: Concertina II Instead] Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> - 2026-04-15 21:45 +0200
                                                                                                                                    Re: Machineguns [was re: Concertina II Instead] "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-04-15 13:01 -0700
                                                                                                                                      Re: Machineguns [was re: Concertina II Instead] "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-04-15 13:16 -0700
                                                                                                                                      Re: Machineguns [was re: Concertina II Instead] Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-04-15 20:28 +0000
                                                                                                                                        Re: Machineguns [was re: Concertina II Instead] "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-04-15 20:12 -0700
                                                                                                                                          Re: Machineguns [was re: Concertina II Instead] Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-04-16 05:27 +0000
                                                                                                                                            Re: Machineguns [was re: Concertina II Instead] "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-04-15 23:55 -0700
                                                                                                                                            Re: Machineguns [was re: Concertina II Instead] MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-04-16 17:39 +0000
                                                                                                                                              Re: Machineguns [was re: Concertina II Instead] "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-04-16 13:19 -0700
                                                                                                                                              Re: Machineguns [was re: Concertina II Instead] Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-04-17 05:37 +0000
                                                                                                                                  Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-04-15 15:36 +0000
                                                                                                                                    Re: far, far, away from Concertina II Instead John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-04-15 16:44 +0000
                                                                                                                                      Re: far, far, away from Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-04-15 17:57 +0000
                                                                                                                                      Re: far, far, away from Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-04-15 18:22 +0000
                                                                                                                                        Re: far, far, away from Concertina II Instead John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-04-15 21:15 +0000
                                                                                                                                          Gate delays (was: far, far, away from Concertina II Instead) Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-04-17 21:38 +0000
                                                                                                                                            Re: Gate delays (was: far, far, away from Concertina II Instead) MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-04-18 01:11 +0000
                                                                                                                                              Re: Gate delays EricP <ThatWouldBeTelling@thevillage.com> - 2026-04-18 13:01 -0400
                                                                                                                                                Re: Gate delays MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-04-18 17:59 +0000
                                                                                                                                                  Re: Gate delays EricP <ThatWouldBeTelling@thevillage.com> - 2026-04-19 14:37 -0400
                                                                                                                                                    Re: Gate delays MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-04-19 21:39 +0000
                                                                                                                                                Re: Gate delays Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-04-18 19:23 +0000
                                                                                                                                                  Re: Gate delays EricP <ThatWouldBeTelling@thevillage.com> - 2026-04-19 16:04 -0400
                                                                                                                                                    Re: Gate delays MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-04-19 21:48 +0000
                                                                                                                                                    Re: Gate delays Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-04-20 17:47 +0000
                                                                                                                                              Re: Gate delays Paul Clayton <paaronclayton@gmail.com> - 2026-04-22 00:00 -0400
                                                                                                                                                Re: Gate delays MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-04-22 18:19 +0000
                                                                                                                                          Re: far, far, away from Concertina II Instead Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2026-04-18 20:51 -0700
                                                                                                                                            Re: far, far, away from Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-04-19 18:18 +0000
                                                                                                                                    Re: Concertina II Instead David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-04-15 21:55 +0200
                                                                                                                                      Re: Concertina II Instead Bill Findlay <findlaybill@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2026-04-15 23:44 +0100
                                                                                                                                        Re: Concertina II Instead BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-04-16 13:15 -0500
                                                                                                                                          Re: Concertina II Instead "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-04-16 13:46 -0700
                                                                                                                                          Re: Concertina II Instead Bill Findlay <findlaybill@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2026-04-16 23:00 +0100
                                                                                                                                            Re: Concertina II Instead BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-04-16 18:53 -0500
                                                                                                                                              Re: Concertina II Instead Bill Findlay <findlaybill@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2026-04-17 13:09 +0100
                                                                                                                                                Re: Concertina II Instead BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-04-17 13:13 -0500
                                                                                                                                          Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-04-17 02:06 +0000
                                                                                                                                            Re: Concertina II Instead BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-04-16 22:09 -0500
                                                                                                                                          Re: Concertina II Instead David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-04-17 08:05 +0200
                                                                                                                                            Re: Concertina II Instead BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-04-17 02:20 -0500
                                                                                                                                              Re: Concertina II Instead David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-04-17 14:18 +0200
                                                                                                                                                Re: Concertina II Instead Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> - 2026-04-17 16:07 +0200
                                                                                                                                                  Re: Concertina II Instead David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-04-17 16:57 +0200
                                                                                                                                                    Re: Concertina II Instead Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> - 2026-04-17 17:30 +0200
                                                                                                                                            Re: Concertina II Instead anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-04-17 08:51 +0000
                                                                                                                                              Re: Concertina II Instead Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-04-17 15:05 +0300
                                                                                                                                                Re: Concertina II Instead David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-04-17 14:47 +0200
                                                                                                                                            Re: Concertina II Instead Bill Findlay <findlaybill@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2026-04-17 13:11 +0100
                                                                                                                                              Re: Concertina II Instead David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-04-17 15:01 +0200
                                                                                                                                                Re: Concertina II Instead BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-04-17 12:37 -0500
                                                                                                                                                  Re: Concertina II Instead David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-04-18 10:56 +0200
                                                                                                                                                    Re: Concertina II Instead BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-04-18 15:05 -0500
                                                                                                                                                      Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-04-18 21:02 +0000
                                                                                                                                                        Re: Concertina II Instead Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-04-19 01:08 +0300
                                                                                                                                                          Re: Concertina II Instead Robert Finch <robfi680@gmail.com> - 2026-04-18 21:04 -0400
                                                                                                                                                          Re: Concertina II Instead BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-04-19 03:54 -0500
                                                                                                                                                            Re: Concertina II Instead Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-04-19 12:28 +0300
                                                                                                                                                              Re: Concertina II Instead BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-04-19 14:14 -0500
                                                                                                                                                                Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-04-19 21:47 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                  Re: Concertina II Instead BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-04-19 18:04 -0500
                                                                                                                                                                    Re: Concertina II Instead Robert Finch <robfi680@gmail.com> - 2026-04-19 22:47 -0400
                                                                                                                                                                      Re: Concertina II Instead BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-04-20 01:08 -0500
                                                                                                                                                  Re: Concertina II Instead Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> - 2026-04-18 11:11 +0200
                                                                                                                                                    Re: Concertina II Instead David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-04-18 11:37 +0200
                                                                                                                                                      Re: Concertina II Instead Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-04-18 10:08 +0000
                                                                                                                                                        Re: Concertina II Instead David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-04-18 14:18 +0200
                                                                                                                                            Re: Concertina II Instead scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-04-17 15:45 +0000
                                                                                                                                  Gun control (Was Re: Concertina II Instead) Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> - 2026-04-15 21:33 +0200
                                                                                                                                    Re: Gun control (Was Re: Concertina II Instead) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-04-15 22:00 +0200
                                                                                                                                      Re: Gun control (Was Re: Concertina II Instead) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-04-15 13:19 -0700
                                                                                                                                        Re: Gun control (Was Re: Concertina II Instead) MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-04-16 17:31 +0000
                                                                                                                                          Re: Gun control (Was Re: Concertina II Instead) Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> - 2026-04-16 19:46 +0200
                                                                                                                                            Re: Gun control (Was Re: Concertina II Instead) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-04-16 13:26 -0700
                                                                                                                                              Re: Gun control (Was Re: Concertina II Instead) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-04-16 13:34 -0700
                                                                                                                                          Re: Gun control (Was Re: Concertina II Instead) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-04-16 18:39 +0000
                                                                                                                                            Re: Gun control (Was Re: Concertina II Instead) MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-04-16 20:49 +0000
                                                                                                                                      Re: Gun control (Was Re: Concertina II Instead) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-04-15 20:35 +0000
                                                                                                                                        Re: Gun control (Was Re: Concertina II Instead) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-04-16 11:35 +0200
                                                                                                                                          Re: Gun control (Was Re: Concertina II Instead) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-04-16 11:59 +0000
                                                                                                                                            Re: Gun control (Was Re: Concertina II Instead) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-04-16 16:27 +0200
                                                                                                                                              Re: Gun control (Was Re: Concertina II Instead) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-04-16 16:31 +0000
                                                                                                                                                Re: Gun control (Was Re: Concertina II Instead) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-04-16 17:37 +0000
                                                                                                                                                  Re: Gun control (Was Re: Concertina II Instead) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-04-16 18:06 +0000
                                                                                                                                                    Re: Gun control (Was Re: Concertina II Instead) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-04-16 18:52 +0000
                                                                                                                                                      Re: Gun control (Was Re: Concertina II Instead) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-04-16 20:09 +0000
                                                                                                                                                        Re: Gun control (Was Re: Concertina II Instead) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-04-17 00:12 +0000
                                                                                                                                                          Re: Gun control (Was Re: Concertina II Instead) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-04-19 00:49 +0000
                                                                                                                                                      Re: Gun control (Was Re: Concertina II Instead) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-04-16 13:44 -0700
                                                                                                                                                        Re: Gun control (Was Re: Concertina II Instead) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-04-17 00:13 +0000
                                                                                                                                                          Re: Gun control (Was Re: Concertina II Instead) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-04-16 19:08 -0700
                                                                                                                                                            Re: Gun control (Was Re: Concertina II Instead) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-04-17 15:55 +0000
                                                                                                                                                          Re: Gun control (Was Re: Concertina II Instead) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-04-16 19:09 -0700
                                                                                                                                                Re: Gun control (Was Re: Concertina II Instead) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-04-17 08:45 +0200
                                                                                                                                                  Re: Gun control (Was Re: Concertina II Instead) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-04-19 01:02 +0000
                                                                                                                                                    Re: Gun control (Was Re: Concertina II Instead) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-04-19 12:56 +0200
                                                                                                                                                      Re: Gun control (Was Re: Concertina II Instead) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-04-19 13:35 +0000
                                                                                                                                                    Re: Gun control (Was Re: Concertina II Instead) Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> - 2026-04-19 17:50 +0200
                                                                                                                                                      Re: Gun control (Was Re: Concertina II Instead) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-04-19 19:04 +0000
                                                                                                                                              Re: Gun control (Was Re: Concertina II Instead) Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> - 2026-04-16 19:36 +0200
                                                                                                                                    Re: Gun control (Was Re: Concertina II Instead) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-04-15 20:22 +0000
                                                                                                                              Re: Concertina II Instead "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-04-15 22:05 -0700
                                                                                                                          Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-04-14 18:04 +0000
                                                                                                                        Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-04-14 17:56 +0000
                                                                                                                          Re: Concertina II Instead Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-04-14 18:01 +0000
                                                                                                                          Re: Concertina II Instead David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-04-15 10:48 +0200
                                                                                                                          Re: Concertina II Instead Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> - 2026-04-15 21:19 +0200
                                                                                                                      Re: Concertina II Instead scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-04-14 14:30 +0000
                                                                                                                        Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-04-14 16:21 +0000
                                                                                                                          Re: Concertina II Instead scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-04-14 17:09 +0000
                                                                                                                          Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-04-14 18:15 +0000
                                                                                                                            Re: Concertina II Instead Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-04-14 20:11 +0000
                                                                                                                              Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-04-15 00:38 +0000
                                                                                                                                Re: Concertina II Instead Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-04-15 17:43 +0000
                                                                                                                                  Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-04-15 19:07 +0000
                                                                                                                                    Re: Concertina II Instead Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-04-15 20:23 +0000
                                                                                                                      Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-04-14 16:13 +0000
                                                                                                                        Re: Concertina II Instead BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-04-14 14:31 -0500
                                                                                                                      Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-04-14 17:54 +0000
                                                                                                        Re: Concertina II Instead Robert Finch <robfi680@gmail.com> - 2026-04-11 19:35 -0400
                                                                                                          Re: Concertina II Instead Robert Finch <robfi680@gmail.com> - 2026-04-11 20:24 -0400
                                                                                                          Re: Concertina II Instead Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2026-04-12 10:45 -0700
                                                                                                      Re: Concertina II Instead BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-04-11 12:26 -0500
                                                                                                  Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-04-11 17:47 +0000
                                                                                                    Re: Concertina II Instead Robert Finch <robfi680@gmail.com> - 2026-04-11 19:52 -0400
                                                                      Re: Concertina II Instead Robert Finch <robfi680@gmail.com> - 2026-04-07 07:11 -0400
                                                                  Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-04-07 04:49 +0000
                                                                  Re: Concertina II Instead Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2026-04-07 09:20 -0400
                                                                  Re: Concertina II Instead BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-04-07 14:31 -0500
                                                            Re: Concertina II Instead antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-04-12 19:28 +0000
                                                              Re: Concertina II Instead BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2026-04-12 17:01 -0500
                                        Re: Concertina II Instead jgd@cix.co.uk (John Dallman) - 2026-04-03 17:34 +0100
                                    Re: Concertina II Instead Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2026-04-03 07:53 -0700
                                      Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-04-03 16:00 +0000
                                    Re: Concertina II Instead MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-04-03 14:58 +0000
                                  Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-04-04 14:27 +0000
            Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-03-25 07:50 +0000
              Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-03-26 11:02 +0000
                Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-03-26 11:16 +0000
                  Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-03-31 00:53 +0000
                    Re: Concertina II Instead quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> - 2026-03-31 13:11 +0000

Page 7 of 30 — ← Prev page 1 … 5 6 [7] 8 9 … 30  Next page →


#115442

Fromquadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid>
Date2026-03-19 16:15 +0000
Message-ID<10ph7f8$rht5$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#115440
On Thu, 19 Mar 2026 10:46:00 +0000, John Dallman wrote:
> In article <20260319120653.0000778b@yahoo.com>, already5chosen@yahoo.com
> (Michael S) wrote:
> 
>> POWER9 - 2017 POWER10 - 2021 We are in 20026 now and I don't hear about
>> 11.
> 
> Announced last July, though nobody has done a wikipedia page yet:

One of your links didn't display clickably in my newsreader, so I just 
Googled. At first, it seemed as if Power 11 was a new generation of 
servers, but not necessarily chips, but eventually I did find that, yes, 
the chips were definitely changed.

The chief distinguishing feature of Power 11 is that it offers a lot more 
memory bandwidth. There appear to be multiple data buses coming from the 
chips - apparently *sixteen*. Which is a figure usually associated with 
things like the NEC SX-7.

John Savard

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#115443

Fromscott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
Date2026-03-19 16:22 +0000
Message-ID<RoVuR.93904$qW1.79704@fx20.iad>
In reply to#115442
quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> writes:
>On Thu, 19 Mar 2026 10:46:00 +0000, John Dallman wrote:
>> In article <20260319120653.0000778b@yahoo.com>, already5chosen@yahoo.com
>> (Michael S) wrote:
>> 
>>> POWER9 - 2017 POWER10 - 2021 We are in 20026 now and I don't hear about
>>> 11.
>> 
>> Announced last July, though nobody has done a wikipedia page yet:
>
>One of your links didn't display clickably in my newsreader, so I just 
>Googled. At first, it seemed as if Power 11 was a new generation of 
>servers, but not necessarily chips, but eventually I did find that, yes, 
>the chips were definitely changed.
>
>The chief distinguishing feature of Power 11 is that it offers a lot more 
>memory bandwidth. There appear to be multiple data buses coming from the 
>chips - apparently *sixteen*. Which is a figure usually associated with 
>things like the NEC SX-7.

Most modern high-end processor chips have multiple memory controllers,
specifically to provide more memory bandwidth (particularly since
most memory controllers perform best with only a single attached DIMM)
as well as larger capacity.  12 isn't uncommon on high end xeons,
for example.

In most modern systems, they're directly attached to the internal
high-speed routing infrastructure (mesh, crossbar, ring) rather
than using point-to-point bus structures.

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#115444

FromMichael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com>
Date2026-03-19 19:00 +0200
Message-ID<20260319190036.00004fa0@yahoo.com>
In reply to#115442
On Thu, 19 Mar 2026 16:15:36 -0000 (UTC)
quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> wrote:

> On Thu, 19 Mar 2026 10:46:00 +0000, John Dallman wrote:
> > In article <20260319120653.0000778b@yahoo.com>,
> > already5chosen@yahoo.com (Michael S) wrote:
> >   
> >> POWER9 - 2017 POWER10 - 2021 We are in 20026 now and I don't hear
> >> about 11.  
> > 
> > Announced last July, though nobody has done a wikipedia page yet:  
> 
> One of your links didn't display clickably in my newsreader, so I
> just Googled. At first, it seemed as if Power 11 was a new generation
> of servers, but not necessarily chips, but eventually I did find
> that, yes, the chips were definitely changed.
> 
> The chief distinguishing feature of Power 11 is that it offers a lot
> more memory bandwidth. There appear to be multiple data buses coming
> from the chips - apparently *sixteen*. Which is a figure usually
> associated with things like the NEC SX-7.
> 
> John Savard

I don't think that # of busses was changed vs POWER10.
Both 10 and 11 seem to suppoort 16 OMI buses.
What is new is support for 4800 MT/s DIMMs on the other side of buffer
chips. For POWER10 it was 3200 MT/s max.

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#115452

FromMitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid>
Date2026-03-19 22:32 +0000
Message-ID<1773959561-5857@newsgrouper.org>
In reply to#115439
Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> posted:

> --------------------
> > SPARC died by stages. Sun couldn't afford to keep development at a
> > high pitch, and the register windows did not help. Once Oracle owned
> > them, the high cost of chip development caused Oracle to cancel it.
> 
> Considering Oracle's financial situation at the time (very very good)
> it does not look like they can't afford it. They just didn't see a
> point.

It takes cubic dollars to fund a high end design team--something
like $200M/year just in development more when considering building
product.

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#115454

FromMichael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com>
Date2026-03-20 01:13 +0200
Message-ID<20260320011307.00001b87@yahoo.com>
In reply to#115452
On Thu, 19 Mar 2026 22:32:41 GMT
MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:

> Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> posted:
> 
> > --------------------  
> > > SPARC died by stages. Sun couldn't afford to keep development at a
> > > high pitch, and the register windows did not help. Once Oracle
> > > owned them, the high cost of chip development caused Oracle to
> > > cancel it.  
> > 
> > Considering Oracle's financial situation at the time (very very
> > good) it does not look like they can't afford it. They just didn't
> > see a point.  
> 
> It takes cubic dollars to fund a high end design team--something
> like $200M/year just in development more when considering building
> product.

It's Oracle of 2017 that we are talking about.
Total revenues  : $ 37.728 B
Operating income: $ 12.710 B
Net income      : $  9.335 B

What is 0.2 B for such juggernaut ?
Just to put things in proportion, in November 2016 Oracle pid $9.3
billion USD for Netsuit.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#115458

FromMitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid>
Date2026-03-20 01:43 +0000
Message-ID<1773971021-5857@newsgrouper.org>
In reply to#115454
Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> posted:

> On Thu, 19 Mar 2026 22:32:41 GMT
> MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:
> 
> > Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> posted:
> > 
> > > --------------------  
> > > > SPARC died by stages. Sun couldn't afford to keep development at a
> > > > high pitch, and the register windows did not help. Once Oracle
> > > > owned them, the high cost of chip development caused Oracle to
> > > > cancel it.  
> > > 
> > > Considering Oracle's financial situation at the time (very very
> > > good) it does not look like they can't afford it. They just didn't
> > > see a point.  
> > 
> > It takes cubic dollars to fund a high end design team--something
> > like $200M/year just in development more when considering building
> > product.
> 
> It's Oracle of 2017 that we are talking about.
> Total revenues  : $ 37.728 B
> Operating income: $ 12.710 B
> Net income      : $  9.335 B
> 
> What is 0.2 B for such juggernaut ?

It should not have been....

> Just to put things in proportion, in November 2016 Oracle pid $9.3
> billion USD for Netsuit.

Fools and their money...
> 
> 

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#115461

FromThomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de>
Date2026-03-20 07:23 +0000
Message-ID<10piskv$1cm20$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#115454
Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> schrieb:

> It's Oracle of 2017 that we are talking about.
> Total revenues  : $ 37.728 B
> Operating income: $ 12.710 B
> Net income      : $  9.335 B
>
> What is 0.2 B for such juggernaut ?

Not sure if you have ever worked for a big company...

Each major project and product line is judged on its own merit.
If the business case does not appear to be there, they will
not spend the money.

> Just to put things in proportion, in November 2016 Oracle pid $9.3
> billion USD for Netsuit.

They obviously thought it made sense.  Let me qualify what I
wrote above.  There is a saying "Where there is a will, there is a
business case."  Such decisions are not always rational.
-- 
This USENET posting was made without artificial intelligence,
artificial impertinence, artificial arrogance, artificial stupidity,
artificial flavorings or artificial colorants.

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#115467

FromStefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>
Date2026-03-20 09:27 -0400
Message-ID<jwv7br6ski3.fsf-monnier+comp.arch@gnu.org>
In reply to#115461
> They obviously thought it made sense.  Let me qualify what I
> wrote above.  There is a saying "Where there is a will, there is a
> business case."  Such decisions are not always rational.

There's also the well-known effect that it's harder to argue against
large projects, because most arguments can be deflected on the basis
either that it's negligible (if it quibbles with something "minor") or
that it's based on an incomplete understanding of the project.


=== Stefan

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#115468

FromMichael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com>
Date2026-03-20 16:01 +0200
Message-ID<20260320160113.000064fe@yahoo.com>
In reply to#115461
On Fri, 20 Mar 2026 07:23:11 -0000 (UTC)
Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> wrote:

> Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> schrieb:
> 
> > It's Oracle of 2017 that we are talking about.
> > Total revenues  : $ 37.728 B
> > Operating income: $ 12.710 B
> > Net income      : $  9.335 B
> >
> > What is 0.2 B for such juggernaut ?  
> 
> Not sure if you have ever worked for a big company...
> 

Not big in USA or Japanese or Korean sense of the word.
But in the 90s I worked few years for a company that had several
thousands employees. Formally, I was not on their parlor, but in
practice it it hardly mattered.

> Each major project and product line is judged on its own merit.
> If the business case does not appear to be there, they will
> not spend the money.
> 
> > Just to put things in proportion, in November 2016 Oracle pid $9.3
> > billion USD for Netsuit.  
> 
> They obviously thought it made sense.  Let me qualify what I
> wrote above.  There is a saying "Where there is a will, there is a
> business case."  Such decisions are not always rational.

I don't think that what you say contradict what  say. Which is "Oracle
could easily afford continued development of SPARC server CPUs, but
decided that they don't want to do it".



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#115470

FromAndy Valencia <vandys@vsta.org>
Date2026-03-20 07:19 -0700
Message-ID<177401639243.3870.11316256852399019329@media.vsta.org>
In reply to#115454
Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> writes:
> Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> schrieb:
> > What is 0.2 B for such juggernaut ?
> Each major project and product line is judged on its own merit.
> If the business case does not appear to be there, they will
> not spend the money.

I have to imagine that the board of Oracle was looking at a chip
design activity which would cost real money and play to no existing
strength of the company.  Then would follow:

"Can we just run on chips made by somebody else?"

"Yes.  But--"

"Thank you."

Andy Valencia
Home page: https://www.vsta.org/andy/
To contact me: https://www.vsta.org/contact/andy.html
No AI was used in the composition of this message

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#115474

FromMichael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com>
Date2026-03-20 17:29 +0200
Message-ID<20260320172926.00005766@yahoo.com>
In reply to#115470
On Fri, 20 Mar 2026 07:19:52 -0700
Andy Valencia <vandys@vsta.org> wrote:

> Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> writes:
> > Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> schrieb:  
> > > What is 0.2 B for such juggernaut ?  
> > Each major project and product line is judged on its own merit.
> > If the business case does not appear to be there, they will
> > not spend the money.  
> 
> I have to imagine that the board of Oracle was looking at a chip
> design activity which would cost real money and play to no existing
> strength of the company.  Then would follow:
> 
> "Can we just run on chips made by somebody else?"
> 
> "Yes.  But--"
> 
> "Thank you."
> 

But after acquisition, in 2010, they did expand SPRAC design team and
most likely greately improved their financing. Only 7 years later they
decided to quit.

As to Board, I dont believe that Ellison and Hurd really cared about
their opinions.

> Andy Valencia
> Home page: https://www.vsta.org/andy/
> To contact me: https://www.vsta.org/contact/andy.html
> No AI was used in the composition of this message

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#115484

Fromanton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl)
Date2026-03-21 07:06 +0000
Message-ID<2026Mar21.080645@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at>
In reply to#115474
Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> writes:
>But after acquisition, in 2010, they did expand SPRAC design team and
>most likely greately improved their financing. Only 7 years later they
>decided to quit.

I was actually somewhat surprised that Oracle did not cancel SPARC
right away.  SPARC CPUs from Sun had lagged in performance for more
than a decade.  But at least they finally got the clock rate up and
OoO execution.  Looking at
<https://www.oracle.com/us/products/servers-storage/sparc-m8-processor-ds-3864282.pdf>,
they boast quad-issue OoO execution.  The performance is still nothing
to write home about:

wget https://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/gforth/Snapshots/0.7.9_20260109/gforth-0.7.9_20260109.tar.xz
time xz -d gforth-0.7.9_20260109.tar.xz
time xz gforth-0.7.9_20260109.tar

time result on a 5GHz SPARC M8 (running Solaris 11.4):

real    0m0.504s
user    0m0.403s
sys     0m0.066s

real    0m7.721s
user    0m7.664s
sys     0m0.054s


time result on a 5GHz Ryzen 8700G:

real    0m0.160s
user    0m0.140s
sys     0m0.020s

real    0m3.149s
user    0m3.121s
sys     0m0.028s

Admittedly a Ryzen 1800X (from 2017) or Intel Kaby Lake (from 2017)
will be slower than the 8700G, but I expect them to still be faster
than the SPARC M8 (from 2017).

Here's another one:

./gforth-fast -i kernl32b.fi startup.fs onebench.fs #on SPARC
./gforth-fast onebench.fs                           #on AMD64

 sieve bubble matrix   fib   fft
 0.312  0.277  0.136 0.353 0.195 5GHz SPARC M8
 0.020  0.020  0.012 0.030 0.012 5GHz Ryzen 8700G

More than a factor of 10 for each benchmark.  My guess is that the M8
has deficiencies in indirect-branch prediction.

Did Gforth disasble its optimizations on SPARC?

: squared dup * ;  ok
see-code squared  
<squared>     dup    1->2 
   0xfeeab718:  mov  %i5, %l6
<squared+$4>  *    2->1 
   0xfeeab71c:  smul  %i5, %l6, %i5
<squared+$8>  ;s    1->1 
   0xfeeab720:  ld  [ %i2 ], %i0
   0xfeeab724:  add  %i2, 4, %i2
   0xfeeab728:  ld  [ %i0 ], %g1
   0xfeeab72c:  jmp  %g1
   0xfeeab730:  nop 

Looks perfectly fine; for comparison:

<squared>     dup    1->2 
7F3592470E60:   mov     r15,r13
<squared+$8>  *    2->1 
7F3592470E63:   imul    r13,r15
<squared+$10> ;s    1->1 
7F3592470E67:   mov     rbx,[r14]
7F3592470E6A:   add     r14,$08
7F3592470E6E:   mov     rax,[rbx]
7F3592470E71:   jmp     eax


And I expect that in the decades of even larger performace
disadvantages for Sun's and Oracle SPARCs enough customers had jumped
ship or at least decided to jump ship at the next opportunity that by
2017 not enough SPARC business was left to pay for its continued
development.

So eventually, what had killed general-purpose MIPS, Alpha, HPPA, and
(contemporaneously with SPARC) IA-64 also killed SPARC: High
development costs of these architectures supported by not enough
customer interest, due to customers defecting to Linux on Intel/AMD.

Interesting that Power and S390x still persevere.  For S390x I expect
that the customers are not price-sensitive, and lots of legacy code in
assembly language tied to some proprietary OS makes porting extra-hard
and extra-risky.  For Power, maybe the AS/400 customers are in a
similar position.  For MIPS, HPPA and SPARC there were lots of Unix
customers for whom the jump to Linux was not that hard.  For Alpha the
VMS customer base apparently was not captured with enough ties to
sustain Alpha (or later IA-64).

- anton
-- 
'Anyone trying for "industrial quality" ISA should avoid undefined behavior.'
  Mitch Alsup, <c17fcd89-f024-40e7-a594-88a85ac10d20o@googlegroups.com>

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#115485

FromStephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid>
Date2026-03-21 06:06 -0700
Message-ID<10pm54c$2f669$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#115484
On 3/21/2026 12:06 AM, Anton Ertl wrote:

snipped a lot of detailed performance data

> And I expect that in the decades of even larger performace
> disadvantages for Sun's and Oracle SPARCs enough customers had jumped
> ship or at least decided to jump ship at the next opportunity that by
> 2017 not enough SPARC business was left to pay for its continued
> development.
> 
> So eventually, what had killed general-purpose MIPS, Alpha, HPPA, and
> (contemporaneously with SPARC) IA-64 also killed SPARC: High
> development costs of these architectures supported by not enough
> customer interest, due to customers defecting to Linux on Intel/AMD.

I think that analysis is generally correct.


> Interesting that Power and S390x still persevere.  For S390x I expect
> that the customers are not price-sensitive, and lots of legacy code in
> assembly language tied to some proprietary OS makes porting extra-hard
> and extra-risky. 

Sort of.  Even if the application code is in a HLL, it can be, and on 
S/390 often is, tied to some proprietary software.  For the highest 
performance systems, that software is the OS, namely TPF (previously 
called ACP - Airline Control Program).  For the vast majority of S/390 
users it is either a database such as IMS, or a transaction system such 
as CICS.


> For Power, maybe the AS/400 customers are in a
> similar position. 

No, actually the opposite position.  AS/400 user code uses a very high 
level system (i.e. no user assembly code) that provides much of the work 
and is proprietary to IBM. While that system could be, and was, ported 
to a different architecture (e.g. from S/38 to Power), of course, IBM 
has no incentive to port it to a generic platform. Without that high 
level system, porting user code would essentially be impossible.

> For MIPS, HPPA and SPARC there were lots of Unix
> customers for whom the jump to Linux was not that hard.  For Alpha the
> VMS customer base apparently was not captured with enough ties to
> sustain Alpha (or later IA-64).

Agreed.



-- 
  - Stephen Fuld
(e-mail address disguised to prevent spam)

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#115488

Fromanton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl)
Date2026-03-21 16:21 +0000
Message-ID<2026Mar21.172115@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at>
In reply to#115485
Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> writes:
>On 3/21/2026 12:06 AM, Anton Ertl wrote:
>> For Power, maybe the AS/400 customers are in a
>> similar position. 
>
>No, actually the opposite position.  AS/400 user code uses a very high 
>level system (i.e. no user assembly code) that provides much of the work 
>and is proprietary to IBM. While that system could be, and was, ported 
>to a different architecture (e.g. from S/38 to Power), of course, IBM 
>has no incentive to port it to a generic platform.

That's an interesting statement.  IBM could implement AS/400 on AMD64
machines (AFAIK it uses some extra bit for tagging on their enhanced
Power, but I am sure that an implementation on ARM A64 with top-byte
ignore and on AMD64 with similar freatures (don't remember the name)
would not incur too much overhead, if any).  That would save them the
cost of continuing Power development.

So they probably think that they can charge AS/400 enough extra for
running on Power, that it more than makes up for the development costs
of Power.  Why would AS/400 customers be willing to do that?  My guess
is that the different architecture is successfully sold as a "secret
sauce" to them that justifies charging that much extra.  Conversely,
if they just were given hardware with ARM, Intel or AMD CPUs and the
AS/400 (followon) OS, they would balk at the prices that IBM charges
them, even if IBM reduces these prices by their share in Power
development costs.

- anton
-- 
'Anyone trying for "industrial quality" ISA should avoid undefined behavior.'
  Mitch Alsup, <c17fcd89-f024-40e7-a594-88a85ac10d20o@googlegroups.com>

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#115496

FromMichael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com>
Date2026-03-22 01:00 +0200
Message-ID<20260322010005.00006df2@yahoo.com>
In reply to#115488
On Sat, 21 Mar 2026 16:21:15 GMT
anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) wrote:

> Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> writes:
> >On 3/21/2026 12:06 AM, Anton Ertl wrote:  
> >> For Power, maybe the AS/400 customers are in a
> >> similar position.   
> >
> >No, actually the opposite position.  AS/400 user code uses a very
> >high level system (i.e. no user assembly code) that provides much of
> >the work and is proprietary to IBM. While that system could be, and
> >was, ported to a different architecture (e.g. from S/38 to Power),
> >of course, IBM has no incentive to port it to a generic platform.  
> 
> That's an interesting statement.  IBM could implement AS/400 on AMD64
> machines (AFAIK it uses some extra bit for tagging on their enhanced
> Power, but I am sure that an implementation on ARM A64 with top-byte
> ignore and on AMD64 with similar freatures (don't remember the name)
> would not incur too much overhead, if any).  That would save them the
> cost of continuing Power development.
> 
> So they probably think that they can charge AS/400 enough extra for
> running on Power, that it more than makes up for the development costs
> of Power.  Why would AS/400 customers be willing to do that?  My guess
> is that the different architecture is successfully sold as a "secret
> sauce" to them that justifies charging that much extra.  Conversely,
> if they just were given hardware with ARM, Intel or AMD CPUs and the
> AS/400 (followon) OS, they would balk at the prices that IBM charges
> them, even if IBM reduces these prices by their share in Power
> development costs.
> 
> - anton

I am not sure that I follow your logic.
Is it based on assumption that System i constitutes a bulk of IBM POWER
income? I somehow think that it is does not.

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#115499 — Re: POWER trends, Concertina II Instead

FromJohn Levine <johnl@taugh.com>
Date2026-03-22 01:12 +0000
SubjectRe: POWER trends, Concertina II Instead
Message-ID<10pnfmq$2c4a$1@gal.iecc.com>
In reply to#115496
According to Michael S  <already5chosen@yahoo.com>:
>> That's an interesting statement.  IBM could implement AS/400 on AMD64
>> machines ...

That's probably true, give or take the fact that AS/400 and i are big
endian and AMD is little endian. POWER swings both ways, big endian for
i and little endian for p running AIX or linux.

>> So they probably think that they can charge AS/400 enough extra for
>> running on Power, that it more than makes up for the development costs
>> of Power.  Why would AS/400 customers be willing to do that? ...

>I am not sure that I follow your logic.
>Is it based on assumption that System i constitutes a bulk of IBM POWER
>income? I somehow think that it is does not.

IBM does not say, but I would think that most POWER machines are running i.
If you want a linux server, there are a lot of alternatives, mostly less
expensive.  If you want i, you get it from IBM.

They're not mutually exclusive.  Recent i systems have a mode that can
run linux code, and POWER has a virtual machine hypervisor than can run
i and p virtual machines at on the same system.



-- 
Regards,
John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly

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#115500 — Re: POWER trends, Concertina II Instead

FromMichael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com>
Date2026-03-22 03:28 +0200
SubjectRe: POWER trends, Concertina II Instead
Message-ID<20260322032836.00007be8@yahoo.com>
In reply to#115499
On Sun, 22 Mar 2026 01:12:58 -0000 (UTC)
John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:

> According to Michael S  <already5chosen@yahoo.com>:
> >> That's an interesting statement.  IBM could implement AS/400 on
> >> AMD64 machines ...  
> 

Not that I disagreee with the content, but the quote above is
not mine. It is written by Anton Ertle.

> That's probably true, give or take the fact that AS/400 and i are big
> endian and AMD is little endian. POWER swings both ways, big endian
> for i and little endian for p running AIX or linux.
> 
> >> So they probably think that they can charge AS/400 enough extra for
> >> running on Power, that it more than makes up for the development
> >> costs of Power.  Why would AS/400 customers be willing to do that?
> >> ...  
> 
> >I am not sure that I follow your logic.
> >Is it based on assumption that System i constitutes a bulk of IBM
> >POWER income? I somehow think that it is does not.  
> 
> IBM does not say, but I would think that most POWER machines are
> running i.

I have no data, but if it was the case then why IBM would bother with
providing anything except the smallest POWER box?
Even the smallest box is probably huge overkill for i.

> If you want a linux server, there are a lot of
> alternatives, mostly less expensive. 

POWER tries to minimize software licensing expenses.
Including by playing dirty game of calling something that for most
practical purposes is a dual-core or quad-core cluster "a core".

> If you want i, you get it from
> IBM.
> 
> They're not mutually exclusive.  Recent i systems have a mode that can
> run linux code, and POWER has a virtual machine hypervisor than can
> run i and p virtual machines at on the same system.
> 

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#115505 — Re: POWER trends, Concertina II Instead

Fromanton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl)
Date2026-03-22 09:48 +0000
SubjectRe: POWER trends, Concertina II Instead
Message-ID<2026Mar22.104854@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at>
In reply to#115500
Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> writes:
>On Sun, 22 Mar 2026 01:12:58 -0000 (UTC)
>John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:
>> IBM does not say, but I would think that most POWER machines are
>> running i.
>
>I have no data, but if it was the case then why IBM would bother with
>providing anything except the smallest POWER box?
>Even the smallest box is probably huge overkill for i.

I don't know anybody who uses System i, so I speculate: if they did
not stop writing software for that system decades ago, I would be
surprised if the software did not make use of additional hardware
capacity, as software tends to do.  I certainly expect that IBM
provides software goodies that work better on the bigger machines.
And the customers might actually see an increasing use over the years
of the software that is running on top of System i, also resulting in
increased loads.

- anton
-- 
'Anyone trying for "industrial quality" ISA should avoid undefined behavior.'
  Mitch Alsup, <c17fcd89-f024-40e7-a594-88a85ac10d20o@googlegroups.com>

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#115517 — Re: POWER trends, Concertina II Instead

FromJohn Levine <johnl@taugh.com>
Date2026-03-22 17:57 +0000
SubjectRe: POWER trends, Concertina II Instead
Message-ID<10ppaig$hmt$1@gal.iecc.com>
In reply to#115505
According to Anton Ertl <anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at>:
>Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> writes:
>>On Sun, 22 Mar 2026 01:12:58 -0000 (UTC)
>>John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:
>>> IBM does not say, but I would think that most POWER machines are
>>> running i.
>>
>>I have no data, but if it was the case then why IBM would bother with
>>providing anything except the smallest POWER box?
>>Even the smallest box is probably huge overkill for i.
>
>I don't know anybody who uses System i, so I speculate: if they did
>not stop writing software for that system decades ago, I would be
>surprised if the software did not make use of additional hardware
>capacity, as software tends to do.  ...

Remember that i "binary" software is actually TIMI virtual machine code.
Whenever you move it to a different physical machine it retranslates
the TIMI into native code, so I'd expect it to use whatever the hardware
has.

IBM is actively developing i with new versions with new features, now with
the magic ingredient AI.  Start here https://www.ibm.com/products/ibm-i
then scroll down to the client stories section.  There's some significant
applications running there.


-- 
Regards,
John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly

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#115524 — Re: POWER trends, Concertina II Instead

Fromquadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid>
Date2026-03-23 19:18 +0000
SubjectRe: POWER trends, Concertina II Instead
Message-ID<10ps3mp$dqhi$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#115500
On Sun, 22 Mar 2026 03:28:36 +0200, Michael S wrote:

> POWER tries to minimize software licensing expenses.
> Including by playing dirty game of calling something that for most
> practical purposes is a dual-core or quad-core cluster "a core".

I'm a bit puzzled. Why would IBM design their PowerPC chips so as to cheat 
themselves?

But then there was the famous lawsuit against AMD because in some of their 
older chips, two cores shared one vector unit.

John Savard

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