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Groups > comp.arch > #110325

Re: unaligned load/store

From Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>
Newsgroups comp.arch
Subject Re: unaligned load/store
Date 2024-12-26 13:38 -0500
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <jwvh66qtimu.fsf-monnier+comp.arch@gnu.org> (permalink)
References (5 earlier) <jwvmshc49i0.fsf-monnier+comp.arch@gnu.org> <9534a1cd1364f2127a1951cc85002f29@www.novabbs.org> <lsp0tqFs7aoU1@mid.individual.net> <cadda24092db49d26e62096c589fbf9c@www.novabbs.org> <vk9us6$pm19$1@dont-email.me>

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>> Aligned data is always best, Misaligned data comes at very low cost.
>> SW overhead = 0
> Thinking about this for a bit... for a clean-sheet architecture
> like My66000, could there actually be an advantage to do
> struct layout like the VAX did, with everything aligned on byte
> boundaries?

I highly doubt it.  Making unaligned accesses work efficiently is great,
but that's no reason to abuse them:

- Going back to Mitch's description, in case B.1 the misalignment is
  truly "free", but for B.2, B.3, and B.4 the misalignment does come at
  a cost, not necessarily visible in terms of cycles but at least in
  terms of cache bandwidth, which can have an impact on overall speed
  and energy use.
  Of course, properly aligning your data will also come with costs,
  but "packed structs" don't come totally free.
- AFAIK most efforts to support concurrency take it for granted that
  atomic accesses are supported only when properly aligned.

I expect it's at least as easy (and more portable) to reorder fields by
order of (expected) size to avoid excessive padding in aligned data,
than it is to add manual padding/alignment to avoid the cost of
misalignment in "packed structs".


        Stefan

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Thread

What is an N-bit machine? jgd@cix.co.uk (John Dallman) - 2024-11-28 15:31 +0000
  Re: What is an N-bit machine? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-11-28 16:33 +0000
  Re: What is an N-bit machine? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-11-28 18:55 +0200
    Re: What is an N-bit machine? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2024-11-30 02:37 +0000
      Re: What is an N-bit machine? Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2024-11-29 22:30 -0800
        Re: What is an N-bit machine? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2024-11-30 19:40 +0000
          Re: What is an N-bit machine? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-11-30 22:38 +0200
            Re: What is an N-bit machine? "Paul A. Clayton" <paaronclayton@gmail.com> - 2024-12-01 11:23 -0500
              Re: What is an N-bit machine? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-12-01 19:52 +0000
          Re: What is an N-bit machine? mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2024-11-30 22:39 +0000
            Re: What is an N-bit machine? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2024-12-01 08:19 +0000
              Re: What is an N-bit machine? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2024-12-01 08:35 +0000
            Re: What is an N-bit machine? Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> - 2024-12-02 09:48 +0100
              Re: What is an N-bit machine? "Brian G. Lucas" <bagel99@gmail.com> - 2024-12-02 19:56 -0500
                Re: What is an N-bit machine? Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2024-12-03 00:01 -0800
              Re: What is an N-bit machine? antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2024-12-15 18:20 +0000
      Keeping other stuff with addresses (was: What is an N-bit machine?) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2024-11-30 06:28 +0000
        Re: Keeping other stuff with addresses (was: What is an N-bit machine?) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2024-11-30 11:35 +0000
          Re: Keeping other stuff with addresses (was: What is an N-bit machine?) Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2024-11-30 11:58 +0000
            Re: Keeping other stuff with addresses (was: What is an N-bit machine?) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2024-11-30 16:57 +0000
              Re: Keeping other stuff with addresses (was: What is an N-bit machine?) Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-11-30 19:32 +0200
                Re: Keeping other stuff with addresses (was: What is an N-bit machine?) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2024-11-30 18:08 +0000
                Re: Keeping other stuff with addresses (was: What is an N-bit machine?) Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-11-30 20:28 +0200
                Re: Keeping other stuff with addresses (was: What is an N-bit machine?) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2024-12-01 09:28 +0000
                Re: Keeping other stuff with addresses (was: What is an N-bit machine?) Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2024-12-01 14:03 +0000
                Re: Keeping other stuff with addresses David Schultz <david.schultz@earthlink.net> - 2024-12-01 08:15 -0600
                Re: Keeping other stuff with addresses Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2024-12-01 14:40 +0000
                Re: Keeping other stuff with addresses mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2024-12-04 02:19 +0000
                Re: Keeping other stuff with addresses John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2024-12-04 03:25 +0000
                Re: Keeping other stuff with addresses (was: What is an N-bit machine?) Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-12-01 07:32 -0800
                Re: Keeping other stuff with addresses (was: What is an N-bit machine?) Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2024-12-01 17:53 +0000
                Re: Keeping other stuff with addresses (was: What is an N-bit machine?) Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-12-01 20:05 +0200
                Re: Keeping other stuff with addresses EricP <ThatWouldBeTelling@thevillage.com> - 2024-12-01 18:16 -0500
                Re: Keeping other stuff with addresses (was: What is an N-bit machine?) Brett <ggtgp@yahoo.com> - 2024-12-01 20:02 +0000
                Re: Keeping other stuff with addresses (was: What is an N-bit machine?) Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-12-31 08:54 -0800
                Re: Keeping other stuff with addresses (was: What is an N-bit machine?) Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2025-01-01 15:28 +0000
                Re: Keeping other stuff with addresses (was: What is an N-bit machine?) Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2025-01-01 17:39 -0800
                Re: Keeping other stuff with addresses (was: What is an N-bit machine?) Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2025-01-02 09:59 +0000
                Re: Keeping other stuff with addresses (was: What is an N-bit machine?) Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2025-01-08 10:00 -0800
                Re: Keeping other stuff with addresses (was: What is an N-bit machine?) Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2025-01-08 19:18 +0000
                Re: Keeping other stuff with addresses (was: What is an N-bit machine?) Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2025-01-27 17:05 -0800
                Re: Keeping other stuff with addresses David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-01-28 08:30 +0100
                Re: Keeping other stuff with addresses Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2025-02-02 08:37 +0000
                Re: Keeping other stuff with addresses Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> - 2024-12-02 17:10 +0100
                Re: Keeping other stuff with addresses Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-12-31 08:46 -0800
                Re: Keeping other stuff with addresses (was: What is an N-bit machine?) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2024-11-30 19:12 +0000
                What is an N-bit machine? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2024-12-01 08:41 +0000
                Re: What is an N-bit machine? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-12-01 15:52 +0000
                Re: What is an N-bit machine? antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2024-12-16 22:39 +0000
                Re: Keeping other stuff with addresses (was: What is an N-bit machine?) Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2024-11-30 22:06 +0000
                Re: Keeping other stuff with addresses (was: What is an N-bit machine?) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2024-12-01 08:38 +0000
        Re: Keeping other stuff with addresses (was: What is an N-bit machine?) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-11-30 17:57 +0000
          Re: Keeping other stuff with addresses (was: What is an N-bit machine?) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2024-12-01 09:38 +0000
        Re: Keeping other stuff with addresses "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-12-01 15:22 -0800
          Re: Keeping other stuff with addresses mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2024-12-02 01:26 +0000
            Re: Keeping other stuff with addresses "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-12-01 20:12 -0800
              Re: Keeping other stuff with addresses "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-12-02 16:54 -0800
                Re: Keeping other stuff with addresses Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2024-12-03 11:51 -0500
                Re: Keeping other stuff with addresses John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2024-12-03 18:19 +0000
                Re: Keeping other stuff with addresses Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2024-12-03 13:46 -0500
                Re: Keeping other stuff with addresses John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2024-12-03 23:33 +0000
                Re: Keeping other stuff with addresses Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2024-12-03 18:52 -0500
                Re: Keeping other stuff with addresses mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2024-12-04 02:36 +0000
                Re: Keeping other stuff with addresses Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2024-12-04 06:29 +0000
                Re: Keeping other stuff with addresses Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2024-12-04 10:32 -0500
                Re: Keeping other stuff with addresses mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2024-12-04 19:47 +0000
                Re: Keeping other stuff with addresses Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-12-04 15:47 -0800
                Re: Keeping other stuff with addresses scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-12-04 16:31 +0000
                Re: bytes, Keeping other stuff with addresses John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2024-12-05 00:39 +0000
                unaligned load/store (was: Re: Keeping other stuff with addresses) Jonathan Thornburg <jonathan@gold.bkis-orchard.net> - 2024-12-21 23:22 +0000
                Re: unaligned load/store mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2024-12-22 01:27 +0000
                Re: unaligned load/store Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2024-12-22 10:01 +0000
                Re: unaligned load/store anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2024-12-22 11:06 +0000
                Re: unaligned load/store jgd@cix.co.uk (John Dallman) - 2024-12-22 11:42 +0000
                Re: unaligned load/store "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-12-22 19:41 -0800
                Re: unaligned load/store Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2024-12-22 21:04 +0000
                Re: unaligned load/store mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2024-12-22 23:32 +0000
                Re: unaligned load/store Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2024-12-26 13:38 -0500
                Re: unaligned load/store George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2024-12-26 16:31 -0500
                Re: unaligned load/store mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2024-12-26 21:59 +0000
                Re: unaligned load/store "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-12-26 14:05 -0800
                Re: unaligned load/store (was: Re: Keeping other stuff with addresses) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2024-12-22 10:33 +0000
                Re: bits and bytes, Keeping other stuff with addresses John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2024-12-04 03:39 +0000
                Re: bits and bytes, Keeping other stuff with addresses Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2024-12-04 10:36 -0500
                Re: Keeping other stuff with addresses mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2024-12-03 19:22 +0000
                Re: Keeping other stuff with addresses "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-12-03 17:03 -0800
                Re: Keeping other stuff with addresses "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-12-03 16:56 -0800
                Re: Keeping other stuff with addresses Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2024-12-04 10:37 -0500
        Re: Keeping other stuff with addresses Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2024-12-03 17:43 -0800
          Re: Keeping other stuff with addresses mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2024-12-04 02:42 +0000
  Re: What is an N-bit machine? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2024-11-28 17:56 +0000
    Re: What is an N-bit machine? mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2024-11-28 19:02 +0000
      Re: What is an N-bit machine? Brett <ggtgp@yahoo.com> - 2024-11-28 19:39 +0000
    Re: What is an N-bit machine? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-28 21:42 +0000
      Re: What is an N-bit machine? jgd@cix.co.uk (John Dallman) - 2024-11-28 22:08 +0000
        Re: What is an N-bit machine? Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2024-11-28 12:44 -1000
          Re: What is an N-bit machine? jgd@cix.co.uk (John Dallman) - 2024-11-28 22:58 +0000
          IBM and Amdahl history (Re: What is an N-bit machine?) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2024-11-29 07:22 +0000
            Re: IBM and Amdahl history (Re: What is an N-bit machine?) Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2024-11-29 08:24 -1000
            Re: IBM and Amdahl history (Re: What is an N-bit machine?) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-11-29 18:29 +0000
            Re: IBM and Amdahl history (Re: What is an N-bit machine?) Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2024-11-29 11:51 -1000
            Re: IBM and Amdahl history (Re: What is an N-bit machine?) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-29 21:51 +0000
              Re: IBM and Amdahl history (Re: What is an N-bit machine?) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-11-30 17:45 +0000
                Re: IBM and Amdahl history (Re: What is an N-bit machine?) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2024-11-30 18:19 +0000
                Re: IBM and Amdahl history (Re: What is an N-bit machine?) jgd@cix.co.uk (John Dallman) - 2024-11-30 22:19 +0000
                Re: IBM and Amdahl history (Re: What is an N-bit machine?) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-30 23:21 +0000
        Re: What is an N-bit machine? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-29 02:17 +0000
          Re: What is an N-bit machine? Brett <ggtgp@yahoo.com> - 2024-11-30 01:29 +0000
          Re: market power, What is an N-bit machine? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2024-11-30 02:42 +0000
          Re: What is an N-bit machine? Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2024-11-29 17:42 -1000
  Re: What is an N-bit machine? mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2024-11-28 19:01 +0000
  Re: What is an N-bit machine? Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2024-11-28 11:45 -1000
  Re: What is an N-bit machine? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2024-11-29 08:03 +0000
    Re: What is an N-bit machine? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2024-11-29 19:17 +0000
    Re: What is an N-bit machine? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-22 21:37 +0000

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