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Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer?

From Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com>
Newsgroups comp.arch
Subject Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer?
Date 2024-09-23 05:44 -0700
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <864j668rpt.fsf@linuxsc.com> (permalink)
References (12 earlier) <vcn0e5$1mb84$1@dont-email.me> <vcn3ch$1mp6e$1@dont-email.me> <20240922114808.000001f9@yahoo.com> <vcot8t$26bt5$1@dont-email.me> <20240922142617.00007d96@yahoo.com>

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Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> writes:

> On Sun, 22 Sep 2024 12:58:36 +0200
> David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:
>
>> On 22/09/2024 10:48, Michael S wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat, 21 Sep 2024 20:30:40 +0200
>>> David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Actual physicists know that quantum mechanics is not complete - it
>>>> is not a "theory of everything", and does not explain everything.
>>>> It is, like Newtonian gravity and general relativity, a
>>>> simplification that gives an accurate model of reality within
>>>> certain limitations, and hopefully it will one day be superseded
>>>> by a new theory that models reality more accurately and over a
>>>> wider range of circumstances.  That is how science works.
>>>>
>>>> As things stand today, no such better theory has been developed.
>>>
>>> Actually, such theory (QED) was proposed by Paul Dirac back in
>>> 1920s and further developed by many others bright minds.
>>> The trouble with it (according to my not too educated
>>> understanding) is that unlike Schrodinger equation, approximate
>>> solutions for QED equations can't be calculated numerically by
>>> means of Green's function.  Because of that QED is rarely used
>>> outside of field of high-energy particles and such.
>>>
>>> But then, I am almost 40 years out of date.  Things could have
>>> changed.
>>
>> I don't claim to be an expert on this field in any way, and could
>> easily be muddled on the details.
>>
>> I thought QED only covered special relativity, not general relativity
>> - i.e., it describes particles travelling near the speed of light,
>> but does not handle gravity or the curvature of space-time.
>
> That sounds correct, at least for Dirac's form of QED.  May be it was
> amended later.

No one does this because the gravitational effects are way beyond
negligible.  It would be like, when doing an experiment on a
sunny day, wanting to take into account the effects of a star ten
quadrillion light years away.  To say the effects are down in the
noise is a vast understatement.  (The distance of ten quadrillion
light years reflects the relative strength of gravity compared to
the electromagnetic force.)

> But that was not my point.
> My point was that the QED is well known to be better approximation of
> reality than Heisenberg's Matrix Mechanic or Schrodinger's equivalent
> of it.  Despite that in practice a "worse" approximation is used far
> more often.

I would say simpler approximation, and simpler approximations are
usually used then they suffice.  If for example we want to
calculate how much speed is needed to pass a moving car, we don't
need to take into account how distances change due to special
relativity.  When we want to set a timer to cook something on the
stove, we don't worry about whether we are at sea level or up in
the mountains, even though we know that the difference in gravity
changes how fast the timer will run (and even can be measured).
There are situations where QED is needed to get an accurate
numerical result, as for example if we want to know the magnetic
moment of the electron, and accurately enough to compare against
very sensitive experiments.  But until and unless we are
confronted with circumstances where those tiny corrections are
necessary, which is to say that the differences have measurable
consequences, generally it's better to just ignore them.

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Thread

Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? jgd@cix.co.uk (John Dallman) - 2024-09-13 20:51 +0100
  Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2024-09-13 23:18 +0000
  Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2024-09-14 07:29 +0000
    Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-15 00:06 +0300
      Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2024-09-14 22:49 +0000
        Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-15 11:22 +0300
          Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2024-09-16 23:48 +0000
            Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-17 10:57 +0300
              Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2024-09-17 19:58 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-18 00:50 +0300
      Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-15 00:42 +0000
        Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-15 03:51 +0300
  Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-17 23:30 +0000
    Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2024-09-17 23:45 +0000
      Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-18 00:44 +0000
        Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2024-09-18 00:57 +0000
          Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-18 01:27 +0000
            Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2024-09-18 13:34 +0000
              Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2024-09-18 14:37 +0000
              Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-09-18 15:50 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-18 19:00 +0300
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-09-18 19:01 +0200
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2024-09-18 18:48 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-09-19 08:52 +0200
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-19 08:40 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-18 23:51 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2024-09-20 11:21 -0400
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-20 21:32 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-09-20 14:54 -0700
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2024-09-20 22:11 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Brett <ggtgp@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-21 01:12 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-09-20 18:43 -0700
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Brett <ggtgp@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-21 16:23 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2024-09-21 01:48 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-09-20 19:28 -0700
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-09-20 19:32 -0700
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2024-09-21 14:15 -0400
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-21 08:26 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2024-09-21 14:16 -0400
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Brett <ggtgp@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-21 16:39 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-09-21 13:24 -0700
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Brett <ggtgp@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-22 02:48 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-09-21 21:12 -0700
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-09-21 13:54 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-09-21 13:26 -0700
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2024-09-21 20:45 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? jseigh <jseigh_es00@xemaps.com> - 2024-09-21 18:49 -0400
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-09-21 20:58 -0700
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? jseigh <jseigh_es00@xemaps.com> - 2024-09-22 07:44 -0400
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-09-22 12:07 -0700
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? "Paul A. Clayton" <paaronclayton@gmail.com> - 2024-09-22 15:37 -0400
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-09-22 12:55 -0700
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2024-09-22 21:39 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? jseigh <jseigh_es00@xemaps.com> - 2024-09-22 20:53 -0400
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2024-09-23 01:34 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-23 10:53 +0300
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture jgd@cix.co.uk (John Dallman) - 2024-09-23 21:39 +0100
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture BGB-Alt <bohannonindustriesllc@gmail.com> - 2024-09-23 16:00 -0500
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-09-23 14:32 -0700
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-30 03:48 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2024-09-30 05:42 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-30 11:49 +0300
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2024-09-30 17:31 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-30 11:46 +0300
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2024-09-23 20:59 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-09-23 14:35 -0700
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2024-09-23 21:58 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-09-23 15:19 -0700
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2024-09-23 22:32 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-09-23 15:46 -0700
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-09-23 15:47 -0700
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2024-09-24 00:26 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-09-23 19:48 -0700
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2024-09-24 03:03 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-09-23 20:07 -0700
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-09-23 15:51 -0700
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> - 2024-09-24 07:50 +0200
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-24 11:56 +0300
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-09-24 14:14 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2024-09-24 15:45 -0400
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-03 00:34 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-10-02 17:58 -0700
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? jseigh <jseigh_es00@xemaps.com> - 2024-10-03 10:25 -0400
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-24 12:49 +0300
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2024-09-24 11:45 -0400
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2024-10-12 08:27 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? jseigh <jseigh_es00@xemaps.com> - 2024-09-23 11:33 -0400
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-21 08:25 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-21 08:24 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-09-21 13:29 -0700
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-21 23:34 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-22 02:57 +0300
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-22 02:12 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-22 10:34 +0300
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-24 00:45 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-09-23 19:44 -0700
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-24 23:43 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-09-24 18:32 -0700
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-24 12:37 +0300
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2024-09-23 16:30 -0400
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-24 00:46 +0000
              Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-18 23:48 +0000
            Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-09-18 15:48 +0000
        Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-09-18 15:40 +0000
          Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-18 19:04 +0300
            Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2024-09-18 16:23 +0000
              Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-18 22:54 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2024-09-19 00:29 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-19 04:27 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-09-19 14:23 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-09-19 09:01 +0200
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> - 2024-09-19 09:26 +0200
                Perception of lag (Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer?) jgd@cix.co.uk (John Dallman) - 2024-09-19 09:00 +0100
                Re: Perception of lag (Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer?) mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2024-09-19 16:12 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-09-19 11:10 +0200
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> - 2024-09-19 12:54 +0200
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-19 23:40 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-09-20 09:14 +0200
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> - 2024-09-20 09:55 +0200
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-20 21:33 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2024-09-24 13:19 -0500
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-24 23:46 +0000
                Local (predictive?) echoing (was: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer?) Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2024-09-20 10:57 -0400
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2024-09-19 16:16 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-19 23:38 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? jgd@cix.co.uk (John Dallman) - 2024-09-20 21:06 +0100
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2024-09-20 20:17 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-20 21:39 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> - 2024-09-21 15:39 +0200
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-21 22:58 +0300
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> - 2024-09-21 22:42 +0200
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2024-09-21 17:29 -0500
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2024-09-21 22:06 -0500
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-22 07:18 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-09-22 12:46 +0200
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-09-22 02:34 -0700
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2024-09-19 16:09 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-09-19 20:06 +0200
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-19 23:37 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2024-09-20 00:58 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-20 04:05 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? "Paul A. Clayton" <paaronclayton@gmail.com> - 2024-09-20 06:52 -0400
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-22 02:13 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2024-09-22 02:21 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-22 07:16 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-22 12:18 +0300
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-24 00:48 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-22 12:12 +0300
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? jgd@cix.co.uk (John Dallman) - 2024-09-20 21:06 +0100
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-21 23:50 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-09-21 17:09 -0700
        Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? "Paul A. Clayton" <paaronclayton@gmail.com> - 2024-09-22 16:58 -0400
          Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-09-23 15:06 +0000
            Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2024-09-23 21:10 +0000
              Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-24 00:34 +0300
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-09-23 21:51 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-24 11:44 +0300
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-09-24 14:18 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-24 17:50 +0300
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2024-09-23 22:05 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-24 11:51 +0300
          Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-29 01:36 +0000
            Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Brett <ggtgp@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-29 02:08 +0000
              Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-29 03:41 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-29 15:21 +0300
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Brett <ggtgp@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-29 18:26 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-29 22:57 +0300
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Brett <ggtgp@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-30 20:20 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2024-09-29 23:30 +0000
      Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2024-09-18 05:40 +0000
        Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-18 06:31 +0000
          Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2024-09-18 20:09 +0000
            Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-18 23:47 +0000
              Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Niklas Holsti <niklas.holsti@tidorum.invalid> - 2024-09-19 10:44 +0300
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-19 08:43 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Niklas Holsti <niklas.holsti@tidorum.invalid> - 2024-09-19 16:25 +0300
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Brett <ggtgp@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-19 19:29 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2024-09-19 19:31 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Brett <ggtgp@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-20 00:15 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2024-09-20 05:46 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-09-20 09:37 +0200
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2024-09-20 11:18 -0400
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Brett <ggtgp@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-20 15:21 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-09-20 19:10 +0200
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-22 11:56 +0300
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2024-09-23 11:44 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-24 01:05 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-09-24 08:14 +0200
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Niklas Holsti <niklas.holsti@tidorum.invalid> - 2024-09-24 10:56 +0300
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-09-20 14:24 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-09-22 02:29 -0700
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Brett <ggtgp@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-22 18:45 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-24 01:06 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Brett <ggtgp@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-24 03:17 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-09-23 20:30 -0700
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Brett <ggtgp@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-24 20:21 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2024-09-24 20:33 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-25 00:00 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-09-28 10:36 -0700
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-09-29 13:51 +0200
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-09-25 10:12 +0200
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-09-28 07:48 -0700
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-09-28 17:41 +0200
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? EricP <ThatWouldBeTelling@thevillage.com> - 2024-09-28 13:16 -0400
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Brett <ggtgp@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-28 19:08 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-29 01:24 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-09-30 13:23 +0200
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-29 01:22 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-09-28 19:24 -0700
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-09-28 21:50 -0700
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-09-29 13:59 +0200
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-09-24 14:15 -0700
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-24 23:59 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-24 23:55 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-25 10:43 +0300
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Brett <ggtgp@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-27 18:43 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Niklas Holsti <niklas.holsti@tidorum.invalid> - 2024-09-27 23:00 +0300
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Brett <ggtgp@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-28 02:47 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Niklas Holsti <niklas.holsti@tidorum.invalid> - 2024-09-28 10:07 +0300
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Brett <ggtgp@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-28 18:05 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Niklas Holsti <niklas.holsti@tidorum.invalid> - 2024-09-28 23:15 +0300
                Re: physics is hard, was Intel exceptionally John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2024-09-28 21:16 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-09-27 21:32 -0700
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-09-28 17:46 +0200
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Niklas Holsti <niklas.holsti@tidorum.invalid> - 2024-09-28 19:01 +0300
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-09-29 14:08 +0200
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-29 01:31 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Brett <ggtgp@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-29 02:08 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Brett <ggtgp@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-29 04:04 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-09-29 14:13 +0200
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-09-29 14:11 +0200
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Brett <ggtgp@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-29 18:20 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? jgd@cix.co.uk (John Dallman) - 2024-09-29 22:09 +0100
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Brett <ggtgp@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-30 04:01 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? jgd@cix.co.uk (John Dallman) - 2024-09-30 16:35 +0100
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Brett <ggtgp@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-30 20:13 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-30 03:46 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Brett <ggtgp@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-30 04:11 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2024-09-30 05:45 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Brett <ggtgp@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-30 19:58 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-01 02:40 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2024-10-01 03:48 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-01 08:34 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-10-01 10:48 +0200
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-10-01 08:57 +0200
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2024-10-01 15:51 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2024-10-01 18:20 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-10-01 20:56 +0200
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2024-10-01 21:11 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-10-02 08:50 +0200
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Niklas Holsti <niklas.holsti@tidorum.invalid> - 2024-10-01 22:07 +0300
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2024-10-01 21:09 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-10-02 09:20 +0200
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2024-10-02 21:45 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-10-03 10:02 +0200
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2024-10-07 12:59 -0400
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-10-08 09:23 +0200
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-12 07:48 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Brett <ggtgp@yahoo.com> - 2024-10-01 23:33 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-03 00:38 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Brett <ggtgp@yahoo.com> - 2024-10-03 01:45 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-03 03:58 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-10-03 10:23 +0200
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Brett <ggtgp@yahoo.com> - 2024-10-03 19:10 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-10-04 11:10 +0200
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Brett <ggtgp@yahoo.com> - 2024-10-04 17:59 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-10-05 11:08 +0200
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Brett <ggtgp@yahoo.com> - 2024-10-05 17:49 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Brett <ggtgp@yahoo.com> - 2024-10-05 18:24 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Niklas Holsti <niklas.holsti@tidorum.invalid> - 2024-10-06 10:41 +0300
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-10-06 12:47 +0200
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2024-10-06 23:29 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-10-07 00:39 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2024-10-07 01:34 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-10-07 11:32 +0200
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2024-10-07 17:14 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-10-08 09:17 +0200
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-10-06 20:59 -0700
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-10-06 12:07 +0200
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-06 01:12 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Brett <ggtgp@yahoo.com> - 2024-10-06 22:08 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Niklas Holsti <niklas.holsti@tidorum.invalid> - 2024-10-07 09:29 +0300
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-10-07 12:45 +0200
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Bill Findlay <findlaybill@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2024-10-07 19:01 +0100
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-07 06:37 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Brett <ggtgp@yahoo.com> - 2024-10-03 19:10 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-03 00:36 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-01 02:39 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-24 23:54 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-21 08:42 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Niklas Holsti <niklas.holsti@tidorum.invalid> - 2024-09-20 00:43 +0300
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-21 08:34 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Brett <ggtgp@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-21 17:40 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-09-21 20:30 +0200
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Brett <ggtgp@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-22 03:20 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-22 07:30 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Brett <ggtgp@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-22 16:42 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-28 02:30 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Brett <ggtgp@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-28 02:44 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Niklas Holsti <niklas.holsti@tidorum.invalid> - 2024-09-28 10:28 +0300
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2024-09-28 07:34 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-22 11:48 +0300
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-09-22 12:58 +0200
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-22 14:26 +0300
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-09-22 14:39 +0200
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-09-23 05:44 -0700
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> - 2024-09-23 19:12 +0200
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-09-23 10:43 -0700
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Niklas Holsti <niklas.holsti@tidorum.invalid> - 2024-09-23 21:13 +0300
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-09-23 15:53 -0700
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-24 01:01 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-09-22 06:10 -0700
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2024-09-22 18:59 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2024-09-23 10:38 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-23 13:59 +0300
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-24 00:56 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-09-23 14:24 +0200
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2024-09-23 12:38 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> - 2024-09-23 19:08 +0200
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-24 01:00 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-09-24 08:17 +0200
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2024-09-24 17:28 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2024-09-24 18:46 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-24 23:51 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-24 12:14 +0300
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-09-23 05:56 -0700
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-22 07:23 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2024-09-22 18:45 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-24 00:50 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2024-09-24 00:54 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-24 23:49 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-09-19 11:35 +0200
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> - 2024-09-19 12:59 +0200
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-09-19 16:15 +0200
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2024-09-19 16:23 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-09-19 20:12 +0200
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-19 20:48 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2024-09-19 21:35 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-19 23:43 +0000
                Re: quanta vs AI, not Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2024-09-20 00:59 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-19 20:53 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Niklas Holsti <niklas.holsti@tidorum.invalid> - 2024-09-20 01:08 +0300
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-20 21:40 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2024-09-20 22:07 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-09-20 15:33 -0700
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-21 08:22 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-09-21 13:43 -0700
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-21 23:55 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-09-21 17:13 -0700
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2024-09-22 01:29 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-09-21 21:01 -0700
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-22 07:31 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-09-22 13:26 +0200
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2024-09-22 01:28 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-09-21 21:02 -0700
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-22 07:21 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Niklas Holsti <niklas.holsti@tidorum.invalid> - 2024-09-22 12:41 +0300
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-09-22 13:40 +0200
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-09-22 12:12 -0700
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-21 08:20 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Josh Vanderhoof <x@y.z> - 2024-09-20 19:08 -0400
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Niklas Holsti <niklas.holsti@tidorum.invalid> - 2024-09-21 10:40 +0300
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2024-09-24 17:08 -0500
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-25 00:08 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2024-09-19 16:18 +0000
                Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-09-19 20:15 +0200
    Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-18 02:54 +0300
      Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-18 00:42 +0000
        Re: Microsoft makes a lot of money, Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2024-09-18 02:41 +0000
          Re: Microsoft makes a lot of money, Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-18 06:45 +0000
            Re: Microsoft makes a lot of money, Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2024-09-18 20:37 +0000
              Re: Microsoft makes a lot of money, Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-19 01:19 +0000
                Re: Microsoft makes a lot of money, Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-09-19 09:11 +0200
                Re: Microsoft makes a lot of money, Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2024-09-19 08:20 -1000
                Re: Microsoft makes a lot of money, Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2024-09-19 19:01 +0000
                Re: Microsoft makes a lot of money, Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-19 23:47 +0000
                Re: Microsoft makes a lot of money, Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-09-20 11:02 +0200
                Re: Microsoft makes a lot of money, Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-20 14:50 +0300
                Re: Microsoft makes a lot of money, Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-20 15:35 +0300
                Re: Microsoft makes a lot of money, Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Brett <ggtgp@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-20 15:33 +0000
                Re: Microsoft makes a lot of money, Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-19 23:44 +0000
                Re: Microsoft makes a lot of money, Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2024-09-20 01:01 +0000
                Re: Microsoft makes a lot of money, Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2024-09-20 05:53 +0000
                Re: Microsoft makes a lot of money, Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-21 08:36 +0000
                Re: Microsoft makes a lot of money, Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-09-21 12:19 +0200
                Re: Microsoft makes a lot of money, Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2024-09-23 10:24 +0000
                Re: Microsoft makes a lot of money, Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-09-23 12:42 +0200
                Re: Microsoft makes a lot of money, Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2024-09-23 12:32 +0000
                Re: Microsoft makes a lot of money, Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-09-23 16:35 +0200
                Re: Microsoft makes a lot of money, Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-24 00:53 +0000
                Re: Microsoft makes a lot of money, Is Intel exceptionally   unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Bill Findlay <findlaybill@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2024-09-24 03:34 +0100
                Re: Microsoft makes a lot of money, Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2024-09-24 03:05 +0000
                Re: Microsoft makes a lot of money, Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-09-24 10:58 +0200
                Re: Microsoft makes a lot of money, Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2024-09-24 17:17 +0000
                Re: Microsoft makes a lot of money, Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Brett <ggtgp@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-24 20:28 +0000
                Re: Microsoft makes a lot of money, Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-09-25 11:15 +0200
                Re: Microsoft makes a lot of money, Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-09-24 14:11 -0700
                Re: Microsoft makes a lot of money, Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-09-25 11:00 +0200
                Re: Microsoft makes a lot of money, Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-09-25 12:17 -0700
                Re: Microsoft makes a lot of money, Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-29 01:33 +0000
                Re: Microsoft makes a lot of money, Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2024-09-24 17:38 +0000
                Re: Microsoft makes a lot of money, Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2024-09-24 18:02 +0000
                Re: Microsoft makes a lot of money, Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-25 00:16 +0000
                Re: Microsoft makes a lot of money, Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-09-25 11:38 +0200
                Re: Microsoft makes a lot of money, Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2024-09-25 18:23 +0000
                Re: Microsoft makes a lot of money, Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-09-25 21:39 +0200
                Re: Microsoft makes a lot of money, Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2024-09-25 19:57 +0000
                Re: Microsoft makes a lot of money, Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-25 00:14 +0000
                Re: Microsoft makes a lot of money, Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-25 00:12 +0000
                Re: Microsoft makes a lot of money, Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Andreas Eder <a_eder_muc@web.de> - 2024-11-04 09:43 +0100
                Re: Microsoft makes a lot of money, Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-11-04 15:51 +0000
                Re: Microsoft makes a lot of money, Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-09-20 14:02 +0200
                Re: Microsoft makes a lot of money, Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2024-09-20 09:44 -0700
                Re: Microsoft makes a lot of money, Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2024-09-20 17:29 +0000
                Re: Microsoft makes a lot of money, Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2024-09-20 12:32 -0700
        Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-09-18 10:41 +0200
          Re: Microsoft financials, Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2024-09-18 20:41 +0000
            Re: Microsoft financials, Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-18 23:43 +0000
            Re: Microsoft financials, Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-09-19 09:18 +0200
          Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Brett <ggtgp@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-18 20:57 +0000
            Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-18 23:45 +0000
            Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-09-19 09:27 +0200
    Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2024-09-17 21:57 -0700
      Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-18 06:46 +0000
        Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-09-18 15:51 +0000
          Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2024-09-18 16:28 +0000
            Re: Is Intel exceptionally unsuccessful as an architecture designer? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-09-18 17:00 +0000

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