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Groups > alt.folklore.computers > #153697 > unrolled thread

Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros

Started byRS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com>
First post2015-10-31 20:40 +0300
Last post2015-11-01 01:25 -0700
Articles 20 on this page of 71 — 34 participants

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Contents

  Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2015-10-31 20:40 +0300
    Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2015-10-31 16:09 -0400
      Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> - 2015-10-31 20:53 +0000
        Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros artie <artie.m@gNOSPAMmail.com> - 2015-10-31 14:12 -0700
        Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2015-11-01 01:02 -0700
          Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> - 2015-11-01 09:02 +0000
      Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2015-10-31 22:27 +0000
        Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> - 2015-11-01 04:37 +0000
          Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros Roger Blake <rogblake@iname.invalid> - 2015-11-01 22:44 +0000
            Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros "gareth" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> - 2015-11-01 23:54 +0000
              Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-11-02 13:17 +0000
                Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros "gareth" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> - 2015-11-02 15:35 +0000
                  Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2015-11-02 08:36 -0800
                    Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros "gareth" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> - 2015-11-02 17:37 +0000
                      Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2015-11-02 10:06 -0800
                  Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros David Hume <David.Hume@example.com> - 2015-11-02 17:28 +0000
                  Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2015-11-02 10:02 -0800
                    Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros ERSHC <ershc123@invalid.invalid> - 2015-11-03 02:29 +0000
                      Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2015-11-02 18:40 -0800
                  Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros John Levine <johnl@iecc.com> - 2015-11-04 01:28 +0000
                  Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2015-11-11 12:08 -0500
                Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-11-03 07:17 +1100
                  Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-11-03 12:54 +0000
                    Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-11-04 08:06 +1100
                Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros "gareth" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> - 2015-11-02 20:48 +0000
                  Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-11-03 12:54 +0000
                    Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros "gareth" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> - 2015-11-03 13:01 +0000
                      Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2015-11-03 19:27 +0000
                        Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros "gareth" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> - 2015-11-04 11:04 +0000
                          Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2015-11-04 23:48 +0000
                        Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2015-11-11 12:12 -0500
                          Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros     wje@acm.org (Bill Evans) - 2015-11-11 12:35 -0800
                            Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros Joy Beeson <jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> - 2015-11-11 23:11 -0400
                            Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2015-11-12 15:31 +0000
                            Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2015-11-12 18:41 +0100
                      Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-11-04 13:52 +0000
                        Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros "gareth" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> - 2015-11-04 15:00 +0000
                        Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-11-05 08:56 +1100
          Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros tracymnelson@gmail.com - 2015-11-05 11:01 -0800
            Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> - 2015-11-07 09:57 +0000
        Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros Greymaus <mausg@mail.com> - 2015-11-01 11:58 +0000
          Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2015-11-11 12:15 -0500
            Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2015-11-12 00:40 +0000
        Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2015-11-02 17:17 +0000
          Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-11-02 09:54 -0800
            Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2015-11-02 10:08 -0800
              Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2015-11-02 18:34 +0000
            Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros Bernd Felsche <berfel@innovative.iinet.net.au> - 2015-11-03 09:45 +0800
          Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros Bernd Felsche <berfel@innovative.iinet.net.au> - 2015-11-03 09:43 +0800
            Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2015-11-03 19:31 +0000
      Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-10-31 20:28 -0700
      Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2015-11-02 14:29 +0000
        Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2015-11-02 09:06 -0600
          Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros "D. Aaron Sawyer" <aaron@110.net> - 2015-11-02 10:10 -0500
            Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2015-11-02 09:27 -0600
            Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-11-02 15:35 +0000
          Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2015-11-02 19:21 +0000
    Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2015-10-31 15:26 -0500
      Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros Hils <hils@saynotospam.net> - 2015-10-31 22:32 +0000
        Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2015-10-31 20:47 -0400
      Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros Theo Markettos <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2015-11-02 11:05 +0000
        Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2015-11-02 09:58 -0800
        Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2015-11-02 15:12 -0600
    Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2015-11-01 00:50 -0700
      Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> - 2015-11-01 08:52 +0000
      Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-11-01 12:01 -0800
        Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros "gareth" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> - 2015-11-01 23:53 +0000
          Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros "78lp" <78lp@nospam.com> - 2015-11-02 15:32 +1100
          Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-11-02 07:24 -0800
      Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2015-11-01 20:08 +0000
    Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2015-11-01 01:25 -0700

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#154361

FromWalter Bushell <proto@panix.com>
Date2015-11-11 12:08 -0500
Message-ID<proto-EF3E76.12083511112015@news.panix.com>
In reply to#153788
In article <n17voc$s14$1@dont-email.me>,
 "gareth" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> wrote:

> "jmfbahciv" <See.above@aol.com> wrote in message 
> news:PM0005238E8B991D92@aca41e6b.ipt.aol.com...
> > gareth wrote:
> >>
> >> I don't see why not, because the language in which a project is coded
> >> is somewhat irrelevant following a competent design.
> > That's simply not true.  A design is constrained by the machine
> > lanuguage the software runs on.
> 
> 
> Which machine languages are not Universal Turing Machines?

All.  All machines are finite and there are time considerations in
all applications. An algorerhythm that takes thousands of years
is a non starter.

-- 
Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by greed. Me.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#153822

From"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com>
Date2015-11-03 07:17 +1100
Message-ID<d9pumrF86igU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#153774

"jmfbahciv" <See.above@aol.com> wrote in message 
news:PM0005238E8B991D92@aca41e6b.ipt.aol.com...
> gareth wrote:
>> "Roger Blake" <rogblake@iname.invalid> wrote in message
>> news:20151101174450@news.eternal-september.org...
>>> On 2015-11-01, Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> wrote:
>>>> I saw one a month or two ago for a company in LA or San Diego for a
>>>> company looking for MACRO-11 programmers.  I don't understand how that
>>>> company has survived this long.  I figure someone retired.  They're
>>>> supposedly porting to something else, but at the same time, they're
>>>> generating NEW MACRO-11 code?!?
>>>
>>> A lifetime ago I used to practically generate MACRO-11 code in my sleep.
>>> I'm surprised there's still a demand for that sort of thing, but really
>>> have
>>> no wish to go back to it at this point.
>>
>> I don't see why not, because the language in which a project is coded
>> is somewhat irrelevant following a competent design.
>
> That's simply not true.  A design is constrained by the machine
> lanuguage the software runs on.

We aren't talking about machine language there. 

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#153851

Fromjmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com>
Date2015-11-03 12:54 +0000
Message-ID<PM000523A2611A8CB7@aca41ca4.ipt.aol.com>
In reply to#153822
Rod Speed wrote:
>
>
> "jmfbahciv" <See.above@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:PM0005238E8B991D92@aca41e6b.ipt.aol.com...
>> gareth wrote:
>>> "Roger Blake" <rogblake@iname.invalid> wrote in message
>>> news:20151101174450@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>> On 2015-11-01, Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> wrote:
>>>>> I saw one a month or two ago for a company in LA or San Diego for a
>>>>> company looking for MACRO-11 programmers.  I don't understand how that
>>>>> company has survived this long.  I figure someone retired.  They're
>>>>> supposedly porting to something else, but at the same time, they're
>>>>> generating NEW MACRO-11 code?!?
>>>>
>>>> A lifetime ago I used to practically generate MACRO-11 code in my sleep.
>>>> I'm surprised there's still a demand for that sort of thing, but really
>>>> have
>>>> no wish to go back to it at this point.
>>>
>>> I don't see why not, because the language in which a project is coded
>>> is somewhat irrelevant following a competent design.
>>
>> That's simply not true.  A design is constrained by the machine
>> lanuguage the software runs on.
>
> We aren't talking about machine language there.
>
What do you think MACRO-11 generated?  IBM 1620 code?

/BAH

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#153872

From"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com>
Date2015-11-04 08:06 +1100
Message-ID<d9slv1Fth7fU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#153851

"jmfbahciv" <See.above@aol.com> wrote in message 
news:PM000523A2611A8CB7@aca41ca4.ipt.aol.com...
> Rod Speed wrote:
>>
>>
>> "jmfbahciv" <See.above@aol.com> wrote in message
>> news:PM0005238E8B991D92@aca41e6b.ipt.aol.com...
>>> gareth wrote:
>>>> "Roger Blake" <rogblake@iname.invalid> wrote in message
>>>> news:20151101174450@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>>> On 2015-11-01, Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> wrote:
>>>>>> I saw one a month or two ago for a company in LA or San Diego for a
>>>>>> company looking for MACRO-11 programmers.  I don't understand how 
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> company has survived this long.  I figure someone retired.  They're
>>>>>> supposedly porting to something else, but at the same time, they're
>>>>>> generating NEW MACRO-11 code?!?
>>>>>
>>>>> A lifetime ago I used to practically generate MACRO-11 code in my 
>>>>> sleep.
>>>>> I'm surprised there's still a demand for that sort of thing, but 
>>>>> really
>>>>> have
>>>>> no wish to go back to it at this point.
>>>>
>>>> I don't see why not, because the language in which a project is coded
>>>> is somewhat irrelevant following a competent design.
>>>
>>> That's simply not true.  A design is constrained by the machine
>>> lanuguage the software runs on.
>>
>> We aren't talking about machine language there.
>>
> What do you think MACRO-11 generated?  IBM 1620 code?

Irrelevant to the DESIGN being discussed. 

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#153827

From"gareth" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid>
Date2015-11-02 20:48 +0000
Message-ID<n18i35$b9j$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#153774
"jmfbahciv" <See.above@aol.com> wrote in message 
news:PM0005238E8B991D92@aca41e6b.ipt.aol.com...
> gareth wrote:
>> "Roger Blake" <rogblake@iname.invalid> wrote in message
>> news:20151101174450@news.eternal-september.org...
>>> On 2015-11-01, Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> wrote:
>>>> I saw one a month or two ago for a company in LA or San Diego for a
>>>> company looking for MACRO-11 programmers.  I don't understand how that
>>>> company has survived this long.  I figure someone retired.  They're
>>>> supposedly porting to something else, but at the same time, they're
>>>> generating NEW MACRO-11 code?!?
>>>
>>> A lifetime ago I used to practically generate MACRO-11 code in my sleep.
>>> I'm surprised there's still a demand for that sort of thing, but really
>>> have
>>> no wish to go back to it at this point.
>>
>> I don't see why not, because the language in which a project is coded
>> is somewhat irrelevant following a competent design.
>
> That's simply not true.  A design is constrained by the machine
> lanuguage the software runs on.

Selecting a machine that will not run the program is a significant
failure of system design.

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#153853

Fromjmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com>
Date2015-11-03 12:54 +0000
Message-ID<PM000523A25DF150C4@aca41ca4.ipt.aol.com>
In reply to#153827
gareth wrote:
>
> "jmfbahciv" <See.above@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:PM0005238E8B991D92@aca41e6b.ipt.aol.com...
>> gareth wrote:
>>> "Roger Blake" <rogblake@iname.invalid> wrote in message
>>> news:20151101174450@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>> On 2015-11-01, Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> wrote:
>>>>> I saw one a month or two ago for a company in LA or San Diego for a
>>>>> company looking for MACRO-11 programmers.  I don't understand how that
>>>>> company has survived this long.  I figure someone retired.  They're
>>>>> supposedly porting to something else, but at the same time, they're
>>>>> generating NEW MACRO-11 code?!?
>>>>
>>>> A lifetime ago I used to practically generate MACRO-11 code in my sleep.
>>>> I'm surprised there's still a demand for that sort of thing, but really
>>>> have
>>>> no wish to go back to it at this point.
>>>
>>> I don't see why not, because the language in which a project is coded
>>> is somewhat irrelevant following a competent design.
>>
>> That's simply not true.  A design is constrained by the machine
>> lanuguage the software runs on.
>
> Selecting a machine that will not run the program is a significant
> failure of system design.

Not all software projects include buying the hardware.  Most projects
already had the computer system.

/BAH

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#153855

From"gareth" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid>
Date2015-11-03 13:01 +0000
Message-ID<n1ab3s$78u$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#153853
"jmfbahciv" <See.above@aol.com> wrote in message 
news:PM000523A25DF150C4@aca41ca4.ipt.aol.com...
> gareth wrote:
>> "jmfbahciv" <See.above@aol.com> wrote in message
>> news:PM0005238E8B991D92@aca41e6b.ipt.aol.com...
>>> gareth wrote:
>>>> "Roger Blake" <rogblake@iname.invalid> wrote in message
>>>> news:20151101174450@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>>> On 2015-11-01, Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> wrote:
>>>>>> I saw one a month or two ago for a company in LA or San Diego for a
>>>>>> company looking for MACRO-11 programmers.  I don't understand how 
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> company has survived this long.  I figure someone retired.  They're
>>>>>> supposedly porting to something else, but at the same time, they're
>>>>>> generating NEW MACRO-11 code?!?
>>>>> A lifetime ago I used to practically generate MACRO-11 code in my 
>>>>> sleep.
>>>>> I'm surprised there's still a demand for that sort of thing, but 
>>>>> really
>>>>> have
>>>>> no wish to go back to it at this point.
>>>> I don't see why not, because the language in which a project is coded
>>>> is somewhat irrelevant following a competent design.
>>> That's simply not true.  A design is constrained by the machine
>>> lanuguage the software runs on.
>> Selecting a machine that will not run the program is a significant
>> failure of system design.
> Not all software projects include buying the hardware.  Most projects
> already had the computer system.

Then it displays a fundamental lack of competence to design a program that 
will
not run on the target machine.

It remains for me, that whatever program I design, it will run whether coded 
in
machine code, assembly language, FORTRAN, RTL/2, CORAL, C, Pascal,
FORTH, CRAP, SOAS, or any of a myriad other languages that I have used. 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#153868

FromAndrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com>
Date2015-11-03 19:27 +0000
Message-ID<YMmdnXvJaOLal6TLnZ2dnUU78UudnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#153855
On 03/11/2015 13:01, gareth wrote:
> "jmfbahciv" <See.above@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:PM000523A25DF150C4@aca41ca4.ipt.aol.com...
>> gareth wrote:
>>> "jmfbahciv" <See.above@aol.com> wrote in message
>>> news:PM0005238E8B991D92@aca41e6b.ipt.aol.com...
>>>> gareth wrote:
>>>>> "Roger Blake" <rogblake@iname.invalid> wrote in message
>>>>> news:20151101174450@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>>>> On 2015-11-01, Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> wrote:
>>>>>>> I saw one a month or two ago for a company in LA or San Diego for a
>>>>>>> company looking for MACRO-11 programmers.  I don't understand how
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> company has survived this long.  I figure someone retired.  They're
>>>>>>> supposedly porting to something else, but at the same time, they're
>>>>>>> generating NEW MACRO-11 code?!?
>>>>>> A lifetime ago I used to practically generate MACRO-11 code in my
>>>>>> sleep.
>>>>>> I'm surprised there's still a demand for that sort of thing, but
>>>>>> really
>>>>>> have
>>>>>> no wish to go back to it at this point.
>>>>> I don't see why not, because the language in which a project is coded
>>>>> is somewhat irrelevant following a competent design.
>>>> That's simply not true.  A design is constrained by the machine
>>>> lanuguage the software runs on.
>>> Selecting a machine that will not run the program is a significant
>>> failure of system design.
>> Not all software projects include buying the hardware.  Most projects
>> already had the computer system.
>
> Then it displays a fundamental lack of competence to design a program that
> will
> not run on the target machine.
>
> It remains for me, that whatever program I design, it will run whether coded
> in
> machine code, assembly language, FORTRAN, RTL/2, CORAL, C, Pascal,
> FORTH, CRAP, SOAS, or any of a myriad other languages that I have used.
>
>

So you were only allowed to work on simple projects. Bigger projects may 
involve constructing the buildings to house the computers in several 
different countries.

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#153900

From"gareth" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid>
Date2015-11-04 11:04 +0000
Message-ID<n1cojh$m6e$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#153868
"Andrew Swallow" <am.swallow@btinternet.com> wrote in message 
news:YMmdnXvJaOLal6TLnZ2dnUU78UudnZ2d@giganews.com...
> On 03/11/2015 13:01, gareth wrote:
>> It remains for me, that whatever program I design, it will run whether 
>> coded
>> in
>> machine code, assembly language, FORTRAN, RTL/2, CORAL, C, Pascal,
>> FORTH, CRAP, SOAS, or any of a myriad other languages that I have used.
>
> So you were only allowed to work on simple projects. Bigger projects may 
> involve constructing the buildings to house the computers in several 
> different countries.

Those exhibiting Builders' Bums do not get to design programs.

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#153980

FromAndrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com>
Date2015-11-04 23:48 +0000
Message-ID<E5mdnRcPzdyPBKfLnZ2dnUU78TWdnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#153900
On 04/11/2015 11:04, gareth wrote:
> "Andrew Swallow" <am.swallow@btinternet.com> wrote in message
> news:YMmdnXvJaOLal6TLnZ2dnUU78UudnZ2d@giganews.com...
>> On 03/11/2015 13:01, gareth wrote:
>>> It remains for me, that whatever program I design, it will run whether
>>> coded
>>> in
>>> machine code, assembly language, FORTRAN, RTL/2, CORAL, C, Pascal,
>>> FORTH, CRAP, SOAS, or any of a myriad other languages that I have used.
>>
>> So you were only allowed to work on simple projects. Bigger projects may
>> involve constructing the buildings to house the computers in several
>> different countries.
>
> Those exhibiting Builders' Bums do not get to design programs.
>
>
They do get to project manage the programmers.

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#154362

FromWalter Bushell <proto@panix.com>
Date2015-11-11 12:12 -0500
Message-ID<proto-B8D96C.12122711112015@news.panix.com>
In reply to#153868
In article <YMmdnXvJaOLal6TLnZ2dnUU78UudnZ2d@giganews.com>,
 Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> wrote:

> On 03/11/2015 13:01, gareth wrote:
> > "jmfbahciv" <See.above@aol.com> wrote in message
> > news:PM000523A25DF150C4@aca41ca4.ipt.aol.com...
> >> gareth wrote:
> >>> "jmfbahciv" <See.above@aol.com> wrote in message
> >>> news:PM0005238E8B991D92@aca41e6b.ipt.aol.com...
> >>>> gareth wrote:
> >>>>> "Roger Blake" <rogblake@iname.invalid> wrote in message
> >>>>> news:20151101174450@news.eternal-september.org...
> >>>>>> On 2015-11-01, Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> wrote:
> >>>>>>> I saw one a month or two ago for a company in LA or San Diego for a
> >>>>>>> company looking for MACRO-11 programmers.  I don't understand how
> >>>>>>> that
> >>>>>>> company has survived this long.  I figure someone retired.  They're
> >>>>>>> supposedly porting to something else, but at the same time, they're
> >>>>>>> generating NEW MACRO-11 code?!?
> >>>>>> A lifetime ago I used to practically generate MACRO-11 code in my
> >>>>>> sleep.
> >>>>>> I'm surprised there's still a demand for that sort of thing, but
> >>>>>> really
> >>>>>> have
> >>>>>> no wish to go back to it at this point.
> >>>>> I don't see why not, because the language in which a project is coded
> >>>>> is somewhat irrelevant following a competent design.
> >>>> That's simply not true.  A design is constrained by the machine
> >>>> lanuguage the software runs on.
> >>> Selecting a machine that will not run the program is a significant
> >>> failure of system design.
> >> Not all software projects include buying the hardware.  Most projects
> >> already had the computer system.
> >
> > Then it displays a fundamental lack of competence to design a program that
> > will
> > not run on the target machine.
> >
> > It remains for me, that whatever program I design, it will run whether coded
> > in
> > machine code, assembly language, FORTRAN, RTL/2, CORAL, C, Pascal,
> > FORTH, CRAP, SOAS, or any of a myriad other languages that I have used.
> >
> >
> 
> So you were only allowed to work on simple projects. Bigger projects may 
> involve constructing the buildings to house the computers in several 
> different countries.

And we are talking about a confuser on a spacecraft launched long, 
long ago (in confuser years) by a much different country. The past 
*is* a different country.

-- 
Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by greed. Me.

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#154399

From wje@acm.org (Bill Evans)
Date2015-11-11 12:35 -0800
Message-ID<news.Wed.20151111.123502.PST.748@mariposabill.com>
In reply to#154362
Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> wrote:
> And we are talking about a confuser on a spacecraft launched long, 
> long ago (in confuser years) by a much different country. The past 
> *is* a different country.

Brings to mind the old guidline: comment your code as though
you were writing it to be understood by a complete stranger,
because six months from now you will *be* that stranger.

-- 
Bill Evans / Box 1224 / Mariposa, CA 95338 / (209)742-4720
Mail-To: wje@acm.org   -- PGP encrypted mail preferred. --
pgpkey.mariposabill.com for public key.    Key #: 8D8B521B
PGPprint: 0A9C 3545 8FFF 7501 6265 1519 40FF 76F9 8D8B 521B

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#154405

FromJoy Beeson <jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid>
Date2015-11-11 23:11 -0400
Message-ID<1c084blhcf6qm0tdm6v1brr78pt4su326i@4ax.com>
In reply to#154399
On Wed, 11 Nov 2015 12:35:02 -0800 (PST), wje@acm.org (Bill Evans)
wrote:

> Brings to mind the old guidline: comment your code as though
> you were writing it to be understood by a complete stranger,
> because six months from now you will *be* that stranger.

I said pretty much the same thing in my book on sewing.

I had a terrible time, once, identifying the "floral linen" one
pattern said it had been made up in.  I should have labeled it
"damask".

-- 
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at comcast dot net
http://wlweather.net/PAGESEW/

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#154421

Fromscott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
Date2015-11-12 15:31 +0000
Message-ID<0h21y.109651$zj3.9950@fx05.iad>
In reply to#154399
wje@acm.org (Bill Evans) writes:
>Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> wrote:
>> And we are talking about a confuser on a spacecraft launched long, 
>> long ago (in confuser years) by a much different country. The past 
>> *is* a different country.
>
>Brings to mind the old guidline: comment your code as though
>you were writing it to be understood by a complete stranger,
>because six months from now you will *be* that stranger.

And the longer you program, the shorter that six months becomes :-(

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#154423

FromPaul Sture <nospam@sture.ch>
Date2015-11-12 18:41 +0100
Message-ID<0jvehc-rsh2.ln1@news.chingola.ch>
In reply to#154399
On 2015-11-11, Bill Evans <wje@acm.org> wrote:
> Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> wrote:
>> And we are talking about a confuser on a spacecraft launched long, 
>> long ago (in confuser years) by a much different country. The past 
>> *is* a different country.
>
> Brings to mind the old guidline: comment your code as though
> you were writing it to be understood by a complete stranger,
> because six months from now you will *be* that stranger.

I used to spend a lot of time at customer sites, so the ability to be
understood by someone else was firmly in the job description.  I
*really* didn't want to get called back at some point in the future due
to having left some incomprehensible code in place.

-- 
Should not the Society of Indexers be know as Indexers, Society of, The?
                                                     -- Keith Waterhouse

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#153907

Fromjmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com>
Date2015-11-04 13:52 +0000
Message-ID<PM000523B77150A949@aca40489.ipt.aol.com>
In reply to#153855
gareth wrote:
> "jmfbahciv" <See.above@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:PM000523A25DF150C4@aca41ca4.ipt.aol.com...
>> gareth wrote:
>>> "jmfbahciv" <See.above@aol.com> wrote in message
>>> news:PM0005238E8B991D92@aca41e6b.ipt.aol.com...
>>>> gareth wrote:
>>>>> "Roger Blake" <rogblake@iname.invalid> wrote in message
>>>>> news:20151101174450@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>>>> On 2015-11-01, Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> wrote:
>>>>>>> I saw one a month or two ago for a company in LA or San Diego for a
>>>>>>> company looking for MACRO-11 programmers.  I don't understand how
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> company has survived this long.  I figure someone retired.  They're
>>>>>>> supposedly porting to something else, but at the same time, they're
>>>>>>> generating NEW MACRO-11 code?!?
>>>>>> A lifetime ago I used to practically generate MACRO-11 code in my
>>>>>> sleep.
>>>>>> I'm surprised there's still a demand for that sort of thing, but
>>>>>> really
>>>>>> have
>>>>>> no wish to go back to it at this point.
>>>>> I don't see why not, because the language in which a project is coded
>>>>> is somewhat irrelevant following a competent design.
>>>> That's simply not true.  A design is constrained by the machine
>>>> lanuguage the software runs on.
>>> Selecting a machine that will not run the program is a significant
>>> failure of system design.
>> Not all software projects include buying the hardware.  Most projects
>> already had the computer system.
>
> Then it displays a fundamental lack of competence to design a program that
> will
> not run on the target machine.
>
> It remains for me, that whatever program I design, it will run whether coded
> in
> machine code, assembly language, FORTRAN, RTL/2, CORAL, C, Pascal,
> FORTH, CRAP, SOAS, or any of a myriad other languages that I have used.

And the OS developers of this biz made it possible for you to be able to
do your coding job.  The language developers made it possible so you
didn't have to think about the hardware.  All of these people had to do
designs which had tradeoffs determined by the computing environment so
that you wouldn't have to.

/BAH

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#153912

From"gareth" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid>
Date2015-11-04 15:00 +0000
Message-ID<n1d6e3$amc$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#153907
"jmfbahciv" <See.above@aol.com> wrote in message 
news:PM000523B77150A949@aca40489.ipt.aol.com...
>
> And the OS developers of this biz made it possible for you to be able to
> do your coding job.

Not so, for I work with the native machine by preference.

>  The language developers made it possible so you
> didn't have to think about the hardware.

I always think about the hardware, having started out as a radio ham and 
then
qualifying in electronics with a specialisation in computer design.

With one exception 25 years ago which was a data base for a book publisher, 
all my projects
have been hardware related. Any real computer scientist worthy of the name
is fully au fait with how a computer works, anyway.

>  All of these people had to do
> designs which had tradeoffs determined by the computing environment so
> that you wouldn't have to.

A non-sequitur.

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#153968

From"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com>
Date2015-11-05 08:56 +1100
Message-ID<d9vd8bFk5qlU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#153907

"jmfbahciv" <See.above@aol.com> wrote in message 
news:PM000523B77150A949@aca40489.ipt.aol.com...
> gareth wrote:
>> "jmfbahciv" <See.above@aol.com> wrote in message
>> news:PM000523A25DF150C4@aca41ca4.ipt.aol.com...
>>> gareth wrote:
>>>> "jmfbahciv" <See.above@aol.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:PM0005238E8B991D92@aca41e6b.ipt.aol.com...
>>>>> gareth wrote:
>>>>>> "Roger Blake" <rogblake@iname.invalid> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:20151101174450@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>>>>> On 2015-11-01, Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>> I saw one a month or two ago for a company in LA or San Diego for a
>>>>>>>> company looking for MACRO-11 programmers.  I don't understand how
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> company has survived this long.  I figure someone retired.  They're
>>>>>>>> supposedly porting to something else, but at the same time, they're
>>>>>>>> generating NEW MACRO-11 code?!?
>>>>>>> A lifetime ago I used to practically generate MACRO-11 code in my
>>>>>>> sleep.
>>>>>>> I'm surprised there's still a demand for that sort of thing, but
>>>>>>> really
>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>> no wish to go back to it at this point.
>>>>>> I don't see why not, because the language in which a project is coded
>>>>>> is somewhat irrelevant following a competent design.
>>>>> That's simply not true.  A design is constrained by the machine
>>>>> lanuguage the software runs on.
>>>> Selecting a machine that will not run the program is a significant
>>>> failure of system design.
>>> Not all software projects include buying the hardware.  Most projects
>>> already had the computer system.
>>
>> Then it displays a fundamental lack of competence to design a program 
>> that
>> will
>> not run on the target machine.
>>
>> It remains for me, that whatever program I design, it will run whether 
>> coded
>> in
>> machine code, assembly language, FORTRAN, RTL/2, CORAL, C, Pascal,
>> FORTH, CRAP, SOAS, or any of a myriad other languages that I have used.
>
> And the OS developers of this biz made it possible for you to be able to
> do your coding job.

Wrong again. I used no OS on the PDP8S, the serial one, that
I used to measure fluorescent decay to below 1ns levels.

> The language developers made it possible so
> you didn't have to think about the hardware.

I didn’t use any language, I used assembler.

> All of these people had to do designs which
> had tradeoffs determined by the computing
> environment so that you wouldn't have to.

They in fact designed the hardware so that it would
do a decent job with any of the commonly used
languages used in that segment of the industry.

And fucked that up pretty comprehensively too
at times like when DEC concentrated on Focal
instead of Basic for various reasons etc. 

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#154027

Fromtracymnelson@gmail.com
Date2015-11-05 11:01 -0800
Message-ID<f4cb53f6-ef7e-460c-9ae1-10c322c668fa@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#153718
On Sunday, November 1, 2015 at 12:37:09 AM UTC-4, Howard S Shubs wrote:
> 
> I saw one a month or two ago for a company in LA or San Diego for a
> company looking for MACRO-11 programmers.  I don't understand how that
> company has survived this long.  I figure someone retired.  They're
> supposedly porting to something else, but at the same time, they're
> generating NEW MACRO-11 code?!?

I used to keep MACRO-32 and VAX FORTRAN on my resume for nostalgia's sake, until a couple of years ago I got a call from a very earnest recruiter who desperately needed someone with my "skills". I now strip any technologies I haven't worked with in the last ten years off my resume. Hopefully I'll avoid any annoying questions about my Pascal, PL/I and AIX experience.

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#154132

FromHoward S Shubs <howard@shubs.net>
Date2015-11-07 09:57 +0000
Message-ID<slrnn3rint.rs5.howard@foxtrot.local>
In reply to#154027
On 2015-11-05, tracymnelson@gmail.com <tracymnelson@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sunday, November 1, 2015 at 12:37:09 AM UTC-4, Howard S Shubs wrote:
>> 
>> I saw one a month or two ago for a company in LA or San Diego for a
>> company looking for MACRO-11 programmers.  I don't understand how that
>> company has survived this long.  I figure someone retired.  They're
>> supposedly porting to something else, but at the same time, they're
>> generating NEW MACRO-11 code?!?
>
> I used to keep MACRO-32 and VAX FORTRAN on my resume for nostalgia's
> sake, until a couple of years ago I got a call from a very earnest
> recruiter who desperately needed someone with my "skills". I now strip
> any technologies I haven't worked with in the last ten years off my
> resume. Hopefully I'll avoid any annoying questions about my Pascal,
> PL/I and AIX experience.

That is an excellent idea.  I should prune mine quick.

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