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Groups > alt.folklore.computers > #153697 > unrolled thread
| Started by | RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2015-10-31 20:40 +0300 |
| Last post | 2015-11-01 01:25 -0700 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 71 — 34 participants |
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Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2015-10-31 20:40 +0300
Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2015-10-31 16:09 -0400
Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> - 2015-10-31 20:53 +0000
Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros artie <artie.m@gNOSPAMmail.com> - 2015-10-31 14:12 -0700
Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2015-11-01 01:02 -0700
Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> - 2015-11-01 09:02 +0000
Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2015-10-31 22:27 +0000
Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> - 2015-11-01 04:37 +0000
Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros Roger Blake <rogblake@iname.invalid> - 2015-11-01 22:44 +0000
Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros "gareth" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> - 2015-11-01 23:54 +0000
Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-11-02 13:17 +0000
Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros "gareth" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> - 2015-11-02 15:35 +0000
Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2015-11-02 08:36 -0800
Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros "gareth" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> - 2015-11-02 17:37 +0000
Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2015-11-02 10:06 -0800
Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros David Hume <David.Hume@example.com> - 2015-11-02 17:28 +0000
Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2015-11-02 10:02 -0800
Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros ERSHC <ershc123@invalid.invalid> - 2015-11-03 02:29 +0000
Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2015-11-02 18:40 -0800
Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros John Levine <johnl@iecc.com> - 2015-11-04 01:28 +0000
Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2015-11-11 12:08 -0500
Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-11-03 07:17 +1100
Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-11-03 12:54 +0000
Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-11-04 08:06 +1100
Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros "gareth" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> - 2015-11-02 20:48 +0000
Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-11-03 12:54 +0000
Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros "gareth" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> - 2015-11-03 13:01 +0000
Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2015-11-03 19:27 +0000
Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros "gareth" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> - 2015-11-04 11:04 +0000
Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2015-11-04 23:48 +0000
Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2015-11-11 12:12 -0500
Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros wje@acm.org (Bill Evans) - 2015-11-11 12:35 -0800
Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros Joy Beeson <jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> - 2015-11-11 23:11 -0400
Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2015-11-12 15:31 +0000
Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2015-11-12 18:41 +0100
Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-11-04 13:52 +0000
Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros "gareth" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> - 2015-11-04 15:00 +0000
Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-11-05 08:56 +1100
Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros tracymnelson@gmail.com - 2015-11-05 11:01 -0800
Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> - 2015-11-07 09:57 +0000
Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros Greymaus <mausg@mail.com> - 2015-11-01 11:58 +0000
Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2015-11-11 12:15 -0500
Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2015-11-12 00:40 +0000
Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2015-11-02 17:17 +0000
Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-11-02 09:54 -0800
Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2015-11-02 10:08 -0800
Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2015-11-02 18:34 +0000
Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros Bernd Felsche <berfel@innovative.iinet.net.au> - 2015-11-03 09:45 +0800
Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros Bernd Felsche <berfel@innovative.iinet.net.au> - 2015-11-03 09:43 +0800
Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2015-11-03 19:31 +0000
Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-10-31 20:28 -0700
Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2015-11-02 14:29 +0000
Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2015-11-02 09:06 -0600
Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros "D. Aaron Sawyer" <aaron@110.net> - 2015-11-02 10:10 -0500
Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2015-11-02 09:27 -0600
Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-11-02 15:35 +0000
Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2015-11-02 19:21 +0000
Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2015-10-31 15:26 -0500
Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros Hils <hils@saynotospam.net> - 2015-10-31 22:32 +0000
Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2015-10-31 20:47 -0400
Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros Theo Markettos <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2015-11-02 11:05 +0000
Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2015-11-02 09:58 -0800
Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2015-11-02 15:12 -0600
Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2015-11-01 00:50 -0700
Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> - 2015-11-01 08:52 +0000
Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-11-01 12:01 -0800
Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros "gareth" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> - 2015-11-01 23:53 +0000
Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros "78lp" <78lp@nospam.com> - 2015-11-02 15:32 +1100
Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-11-02 07:24 -0800
Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2015-11-01 20:08 +0000
Re: Last Voyager engineer retires, NASA needs Fortran/Algol pros Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2015-11-01 01:25 -0700
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| From | Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-11-11 12:08 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <proto-EF3E76.12083511112015@news.panix.com> |
| In reply to | #153788 |
In article <n17voc$s14$1@dont-email.me>, "gareth" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> wrote: > "jmfbahciv" <See.above@aol.com> wrote in message > news:PM0005238E8B991D92@aca41e6b.ipt.aol.com... > > gareth wrote: > >> > >> I don't see why not, because the language in which a project is coded > >> is somewhat irrelevant following a competent design. > > That's simply not true. A design is constrained by the machine > > lanuguage the software runs on. > > > Which machine languages are not Universal Turing Machines? All. All machines are finite and there are time considerations in all applications. An algorerhythm that takes thousands of years is a non starter. -- Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by greed. Me.
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| From | "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-11-03 07:17 +1100 |
| Message-ID | <d9pumrF86igU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #153774 |
"jmfbahciv" <See.above@aol.com> wrote in message news:PM0005238E8B991D92@aca41e6b.ipt.aol.com... > gareth wrote: >> "Roger Blake" <rogblake@iname.invalid> wrote in message >> news:20151101174450@news.eternal-september.org... >>> On 2015-11-01, Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> wrote: >>>> I saw one a month or two ago for a company in LA or San Diego for a >>>> company looking for MACRO-11 programmers. I don't understand how that >>>> company has survived this long. I figure someone retired. They're >>>> supposedly porting to something else, but at the same time, they're >>>> generating NEW MACRO-11 code?!? >>> >>> A lifetime ago I used to practically generate MACRO-11 code in my sleep. >>> I'm surprised there's still a demand for that sort of thing, but really >>> have >>> no wish to go back to it at this point. >> >> I don't see why not, because the language in which a project is coded >> is somewhat irrelevant following a competent design. > > That's simply not true. A design is constrained by the machine > lanuguage the software runs on. We aren't talking about machine language there.
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| From | jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-11-03 12:54 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <PM000523A2611A8CB7@aca41ca4.ipt.aol.com> |
| In reply to | #153822 |
Rod Speed wrote: > > > "jmfbahciv" <See.above@aol.com> wrote in message > news:PM0005238E8B991D92@aca41e6b.ipt.aol.com... >> gareth wrote: >>> "Roger Blake" <rogblake@iname.invalid> wrote in message >>> news:20151101174450@news.eternal-september.org... >>>> On 2015-11-01, Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> wrote: >>>>> I saw one a month or two ago for a company in LA or San Diego for a >>>>> company looking for MACRO-11 programmers. I don't understand how that >>>>> company has survived this long. I figure someone retired. They're >>>>> supposedly porting to something else, but at the same time, they're >>>>> generating NEW MACRO-11 code?!? >>>> >>>> A lifetime ago I used to practically generate MACRO-11 code in my sleep. >>>> I'm surprised there's still a demand for that sort of thing, but really >>>> have >>>> no wish to go back to it at this point. >>> >>> I don't see why not, because the language in which a project is coded >>> is somewhat irrelevant following a competent design. >> >> That's simply not true. A design is constrained by the machine >> lanuguage the software runs on. > > We aren't talking about machine language there. > What do you think MACRO-11 generated? IBM 1620 code? /BAH
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| From | "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-11-04 08:06 +1100 |
| Message-ID | <d9slv1Fth7fU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #153851 |
"jmfbahciv" <See.above@aol.com> wrote in message news:PM000523A2611A8CB7@aca41ca4.ipt.aol.com... > Rod Speed wrote: >> >> >> "jmfbahciv" <See.above@aol.com> wrote in message >> news:PM0005238E8B991D92@aca41e6b.ipt.aol.com... >>> gareth wrote: >>>> "Roger Blake" <rogblake@iname.invalid> wrote in message >>>> news:20151101174450@news.eternal-september.org... >>>>> On 2015-11-01, Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> wrote: >>>>>> I saw one a month or two ago for a company in LA or San Diego for a >>>>>> company looking for MACRO-11 programmers. I don't understand how >>>>>> that >>>>>> company has survived this long. I figure someone retired. They're >>>>>> supposedly porting to something else, but at the same time, they're >>>>>> generating NEW MACRO-11 code?!? >>>>> >>>>> A lifetime ago I used to practically generate MACRO-11 code in my >>>>> sleep. >>>>> I'm surprised there's still a demand for that sort of thing, but >>>>> really >>>>> have >>>>> no wish to go back to it at this point. >>>> >>>> I don't see why not, because the language in which a project is coded >>>> is somewhat irrelevant following a competent design. >>> >>> That's simply not true. A design is constrained by the machine >>> lanuguage the software runs on. >> >> We aren't talking about machine language there. >> > What do you think MACRO-11 generated? IBM 1620 code? Irrelevant to the DESIGN being discussed.
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| From | "gareth" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-11-02 20:48 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <n18i35$b9j$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #153774 |
"jmfbahciv" <See.above@aol.com> wrote in message news:PM0005238E8B991D92@aca41e6b.ipt.aol.com... > gareth wrote: >> "Roger Blake" <rogblake@iname.invalid> wrote in message >> news:20151101174450@news.eternal-september.org... >>> On 2015-11-01, Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> wrote: >>>> I saw one a month or two ago for a company in LA or San Diego for a >>>> company looking for MACRO-11 programmers. I don't understand how that >>>> company has survived this long. I figure someone retired. They're >>>> supposedly porting to something else, but at the same time, they're >>>> generating NEW MACRO-11 code?!? >>> >>> A lifetime ago I used to practically generate MACRO-11 code in my sleep. >>> I'm surprised there's still a demand for that sort of thing, but really >>> have >>> no wish to go back to it at this point. >> >> I don't see why not, because the language in which a project is coded >> is somewhat irrelevant following a competent design. > > That's simply not true. A design is constrained by the machine > lanuguage the software runs on. Selecting a machine that will not run the program is a significant failure of system design.
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| From | jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-11-03 12:54 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <PM000523A25DF150C4@aca41ca4.ipt.aol.com> |
| In reply to | #153827 |
gareth wrote: > > "jmfbahciv" <See.above@aol.com> wrote in message > news:PM0005238E8B991D92@aca41e6b.ipt.aol.com... >> gareth wrote: >>> "Roger Blake" <rogblake@iname.invalid> wrote in message >>> news:20151101174450@news.eternal-september.org... >>>> On 2015-11-01, Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> wrote: >>>>> I saw one a month or two ago for a company in LA or San Diego for a >>>>> company looking for MACRO-11 programmers. I don't understand how that >>>>> company has survived this long. I figure someone retired. They're >>>>> supposedly porting to something else, but at the same time, they're >>>>> generating NEW MACRO-11 code?!? >>>> >>>> A lifetime ago I used to practically generate MACRO-11 code in my sleep. >>>> I'm surprised there's still a demand for that sort of thing, but really >>>> have >>>> no wish to go back to it at this point. >>> >>> I don't see why not, because the language in which a project is coded >>> is somewhat irrelevant following a competent design. >> >> That's simply not true. A design is constrained by the machine >> lanuguage the software runs on. > > Selecting a machine that will not run the program is a significant > failure of system design. Not all software projects include buying the hardware. Most projects already had the computer system. /BAH
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| From | "gareth" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-11-03 13:01 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <n1ab3s$78u$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #153853 |
"jmfbahciv" <See.above@aol.com> wrote in message news:PM000523A25DF150C4@aca41ca4.ipt.aol.com... > gareth wrote: >> "jmfbahciv" <See.above@aol.com> wrote in message >> news:PM0005238E8B991D92@aca41e6b.ipt.aol.com... >>> gareth wrote: >>>> "Roger Blake" <rogblake@iname.invalid> wrote in message >>>> news:20151101174450@news.eternal-september.org... >>>>> On 2015-11-01, Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> wrote: >>>>>> I saw one a month or two ago for a company in LA or San Diego for a >>>>>> company looking for MACRO-11 programmers. I don't understand how >>>>>> that >>>>>> company has survived this long. I figure someone retired. They're >>>>>> supposedly porting to something else, but at the same time, they're >>>>>> generating NEW MACRO-11 code?!? >>>>> A lifetime ago I used to practically generate MACRO-11 code in my >>>>> sleep. >>>>> I'm surprised there's still a demand for that sort of thing, but >>>>> really >>>>> have >>>>> no wish to go back to it at this point. >>>> I don't see why not, because the language in which a project is coded >>>> is somewhat irrelevant following a competent design. >>> That's simply not true. A design is constrained by the machine >>> lanuguage the software runs on. >> Selecting a machine that will not run the program is a significant >> failure of system design. > Not all software projects include buying the hardware. Most projects > already had the computer system. Then it displays a fundamental lack of competence to design a program that will not run on the target machine. It remains for me, that whatever program I design, it will run whether coded in machine code, assembly language, FORTRAN, RTL/2, CORAL, C, Pascal, FORTH, CRAP, SOAS, or any of a myriad other languages that I have used.
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| From | Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-11-03 19:27 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <YMmdnXvJaOLal6TLnZ2dnUU78UudnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #153855 |
On 03/11/2015 13:01, gareth wrote: > "jmfbahciv" <See.above@aol.com> wrote in message > news:PM000523A25DF150C4@aca41ca4.ipt.aol.com... >> gareth wrote: >>> "jmfbahciv" <See.above@aol.com> wrote in message >>> news:PM0005238E8B991D92@aca41e6b.ipt.aol.com... >>>> gareth wrote: >>>>> "Roger Blake" <rogblake@iname.invalid> wrote in message >>>>> news:20151101174450@news.eternal-september.org... >>>>>> On 2015-11-01, Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> wrote: >>>>>>> I saw one a month or two ago for a company in LA or San Diego for a >>>>>>> company looking for MACRO-11 programmers. I don't understand how >>>>>>> that >>>>>>> company has survived this long. I figure someone retired. They're >>>>>>> supposedly porting to something else, but at the same time, they're >>>>>>> generating NEW MACRO-11 code?!? >>>>>> A lifetime ago I used to practically generate MACRO-11 code in my >>>>>> sleep. >>>>>> I'm surprised there's still a demand for that sort of thing, but >>>>>> really >>>>>> have >>>>>> no wish to go back to it at this point. >>>>> I don't see why not, because the language in which a project is coded >>>>> is somewhat irrelevant following a competent design. >>>> That's simply not true. A design is constrained by the machine >>>> lanuguage the software runs on. >>> Selecting a machine that will not run the program is a significant >>> failure of system design. >> Not all software projects include buying the hardware. Most projects >> already had the computer system. > > Then it displays a fundamental lack of competence to design a program that > will > not run on the target machine. > > It remains for me, that whatever program I design, it will run whether coded > in > machine code, assembly language, FORTRAN, RTL/2, CORAL, C, Pascal, > FORTH, CRAP, SOAS, or any of a myriad other languages that I have used. > > So you were only allowed to work on simple projects. Bigger projects may involve constructing the buildings to house the computers in several different countries.
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| From | "gareth" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-11-04 11:04 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <n1cojh$m6e$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #153868 |
"Andrew Swallow" <am.swallow@btinternet.com> wrote in message news:YMmdnXvJaOLal6TLnZ2dnUU78UudnZ2d@giganews.com... > On 03/11/2015 13:01, gareth wrote: >> It remains for me, that whatever program I design, it will run whether >> coded >> in >> machine code, assembly language, FORTRAN, RTL/2, CORAL, C, Pascal, >> FORTH, CRAP, SOAS, or any of a myriad other languages that I have used. > > So you were only allowed to work on simple projects. Bigger projects may > involve constructing the buildings to house the computers in several > different countries. Those exhibiting Builders' Bums do not get to design programs.
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| From | Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-11-04 23:48 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <E5mdnRcPzdyPBKfLnZ2dnUU78TWdnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #153900 |
On 04/11/2015 11:04, gareth wrote: > "Andrew Swallow" <am.swallow@btinternet.com> wrote in message > news:YMmdnXvJaOLal6TLnZ2dnUU78UudnZ2d@giganews.com... >> On 03/11/2015 13:01, gareth wrote: >>> It remains for me, that whatever program I design, it will run whether >>> coded >>> in >>> machine code, assembly language, FORTRAN, RTL/2, CORAL, C, Pascal, >>> FORTH, CRAP, SOAS, or any of a myriad other languages that I have used. >> >> So you were only allowed to work on simple projects. Bigger projects may >> involve constructing the buildings to house the computers in several >> different countries. > > Those exhibiting Builders' Bums do not get to design programs. > > They do get to project manage the programmers.
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| From | Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-11-11 12:12 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <proto-B8D96C.12122711112015@news.panix.com> |
| In reply to | #153868 |
In article <YMmdnXvJaOLal6TLnZ2dnUU78UudnZ2d@giganews.com>, Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> wrote: > On 03/11/2015 13:01, gareth wrote: > > "jmfbahciv" <See.above@aol.com> wrote in message > > news:PM000523A25DF150C4@aca41ca4.ipt.aol.com... > >> gareth wrote: > >>> "jmfbahciv" <See.above@aol.com> wrote in message > >>> news:PM0005238E8B991D92@aca41e6b.ipt.aol.com... > >>>> gareth wrote: > >>>>> "Roger Blake" <rogblake@iname.invalid> wrote in message > >>>>> news:20151101174450@news.eternal-september.org... > >>>>>> On 2015-11-01, Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> wrote: > >>>>>>> I saw one a month or two ago for a company in LA or San Diego for a > >>>>>>> company looking for MACRO-11 programmers. I don't understand how > >>>>>>> that > >>>>>>> company has survived this long. I figure someone retired. They're > >>>>>>> supposedly porting to something else, but at the same time, they're > >>>>>>> generating NEW MACRO-11 code?!? > >>>>>> A lifetime ago I used to practically generate MACRO-11 code in my > >>>>>> sleep. > >>>>>> I'm surprised there's still a demand for that sort of thing, but > >>>>>> really > >>>>>> have > >>>>>> no wish to go back to it at this point. > >>>>> I don't see why not, because the language in which a project is coded > >>>>> is somewhat irrelevant following a competent design. > >>>> That's simply not true. A design is constrained by the machine > >>>> lanuguage the software runs on. > >>> Selecting a machine that will not run the program is a significant > >>> failure of system design. > >> Not all software projects include buying the hardware. Most projects > >> already had the computer system. > > > > Then it displays a fundamental lack of competence to design a program that > > will > > not run on the target machine. > > > > It remains for me, that whatever program I design, it will run whether coded > > in > > machine code, assembly language, FORTRAN, RTL/2, CORAL, C, Pascal, > > FORTH, CRAP, SOAS, or any of a myriad other languages that I have used. > > > > > > So you were only allowed to work on simple projects. Bigger projects may > involve constructing the buildings to house the computers in several > different countries. And we are talking about a confuser on a spacecraft launched long, long ago (in confuser years) by a much different country. The past *is* a different country. -- Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by greed. Me.
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| From | wje@acm.org (Bill Evans) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-11-11 12:35 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <news.Wed.20151111.123502.PST.748@mariposabill.com> |
| In reply to | #154362 |
Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> wrote: > And we are talking about a confuser on a spacecraft launched long, > long ago (in confuser years) by a much different country. The past > *is* a different country. Brings to mind the old guidline: comment your code as though you were writing it to be understood by a complete stranger, because six months from now you will *be* that stranger. -- Bill Evans / Box 1224 / Mariposa, CA 95338 / (209)742-4720 Mail-To: wje@acm.org -- PGP encrypted mail preferred. -- pgpkey.mariposabill.com for public key. Key #: 8D8B521B PGPprint: 0A9C 3545 8FFF 7501 6265 1519 40FF 76F9 8D8B 521B
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| From | Joy Beeson <jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-11-11 23:11 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <1c084blhcf6qm0tdm6v1brr78pt4su326i@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #154399 |
On Wed, 11 Nov 2015 12:35:02 -0800 (PST), wje@acm.org (Bill Evans) wrote: > Brings to mind the old guidline: comment your code as though > you were writing it to be understood by a complete stranger, > because six months from now you will *be* that stranger. I said pretty much the same thing in my book on sewing. I had a terrible time, once, identifying the "floral linen" one pattern said it had been made up in. I should have labeled it "damask". -- Joy Beeson joy beeson at comcast dot net http://wlweather.net/PAGESEW/
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| From | scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-11-12 15:31 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <0h21y.109651$zj3.9950@fx05.iad> |
| In reply to | #154399 |
wje@acm.org (Bill Evans) writes: >Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> wrote: >> And we are talking about a confuser on a spacecraft launched long, >> long ago (in confuser years) by a much different country. The past >> *is* a different country. > >Brings to mind the old guidline: comment your code as though >you were writing it to be understood by a complete stranger, >because six months from now you will *be* that stranger. And the longer you program, the shorter that six months becomes :-(
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| From | Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-11-12 18:41 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <0jvehc-rsh2.ln1@news.chingola.ch> |
| In reply to | #154399 |
On 2015-11-11, Bill Evans <wje@acm.org> wrote:
> Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> wrote:
>> And we are talking about a confuser on a spacecraft launched long,
>> long ago (in confuser years) by a much different country. The past
>> *is* a different country.
>
> Brings to mind the old guidline: comment your code as though
> you were writing it to be understood by a complete stranger,
> because six months from now you will *be* that stranger.
I used to spend a lot of time at customer sites, so the ability to be
understood by someone else was firmly in the job description. I
*really* didn't want to get called back at some point in the future due
to having left some incomprehensible code in place.
--
Should not the Society of Indexers be know as Indexers, Society of, The?
-- Keith Waterhouse
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| From | jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-11-04 13:52 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <PM000523B77150A949@aca40489.ipt.aol.com> |
| In reply to | #153855 |
gareth wrote: > "jmfbahciv" <See.above@aol.com> wrote in message > news:PM000523A25DF150C4@aca41ca4.ipt.aol.com... >> gareth wrote: >>> "jmfbahciv" <See.above@aol.com> wrote in message >>> news:PM0005238E8B991D92@aca41e6b.ipt.aol.com... >>>> gareth wrote: >>>>> "Roger Blake" <rogblake@iname.invalid> wrote in message >>>>> news:20151101174450@news.eternal-september.org... >>>>>> On 2015-11-01, Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> wrote: >>>>>>> I saw one a month or two ago for a company in LA or San Diego for a >>>>>>> company looking for MACRO-11 programmers. I don't understand how >>>>>>> that >>>>>>> company has survived this long. I figure someone retired. They're >>>>>>> supposedly porting to something else, but at the same time, they're >>>>>>> generating NEW MACRO-11 code?!? >>>>>> A lifetime ago I used to practically generate MACRO-11 code in my >>>>>> sleep. >>>>>> I'm surprised there's still a demand for that sort of thing, but >>>>>> really >>>>>> have >>>>>> no wish to go back to it at this point. >>>>> I don't see why not, because the language in which a project is coded >>>>> is somewhat irrelevant following a competent design. >>>> That's simply not true. A design is constrained by the machine >>>> lanuguage the software runs on. >>> Selecting a machine that will not run the program is a significant >>> failure of system design. >> Not all software projects include buying the hardware. Most projects >> already had the computer system. > > Then it displays a fundamental lack of competence to design a program that > will > not run on the target machine. > > It remains for me, that whatever program I design, it will run whether coded > in > machine code, assembly language, FORTRAN, RTL/2, CORAL, C, Pascal, > FORTH, CRAP, SOAS, or any of a myriad other languages that I have used. And the OS developers of this biz made it possible for you to be able to do your coding job. The language developers made it possible so you didn't have to think about the hardware. All of these people had to do designs which had tradeoffs determined by the computing environment so that you wouldn't have to. /BAH
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| From | "gareth" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-11-04 15:00 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <n1d6e3$amc$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #153907 |
"jmfbahciv" <See.above@aol.com> wrote in message news:PM000523B77150A949@aca40489.ipt.aol.com... > > And the OS developers of this biz made it possible for you to be able to > do your coding job. Not so, for I work with the native machine by preference. > The language developers made it possible so you > didn't have to think about the hardware. I always think about the hardware, having started out as a radio ham and then qualifying in electronics with a specialisation in computer design. With one exception 25 years ago which was a data base for a book publisher, all my projects have been hardware related. Any real computer scientist worthy of the name is fully au fait with how a computer works, anyway. > All of these people had to do > designs which had tradeoffs determined by the computing environment so > that you wouldn't have to. A non-sequitur.
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| From | "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-11-05 08:56 +1100 |
| Message-ID | <d9vd8bFk5qlU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #153907 |
"jmfbahciv" <See.above@aol.com> wrote in message news:PM000523B77150A949@aca40489.ipt.aol.com... > gareth wrote: >> "jmfbahciv" <See.above@aol.com> wrote in message >> news:PM000523A25DF150C4@aca41ca4.ipt.aol.com... >>> gareth wrote: >>>> "jmfbahciv" <See.above@aol.com> wrote in message >>>> news:PM0005238E8B991D92@aca41e6b.ipt.aol.com... >>>>> gareth wrote: >>>>>> "Roger Blake" <rogblake@iname.invalid> wrote in message >>>>>> news:20151101174450@news.eternal-september.org... >>>>>>> On 2015-11-01, Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> wrote: >>>>>>>> I saw one a month or two ago for a company in LA or San Diego for a >>>>>>>> company looking for MACRO-11 programmers. I don't understand how >>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>> company has survived this long. I figure someone retired. They're >>>>>>>> supposedly porting to something else, but at the same time, they're >>>>>>>> generating NEW MACRO-11 code?!? >>>>>>> A lifetime ago I used to practically generate MACRO-11 code in my >>>>>>> sleep. >>>>>>> I'm surprised there's still a demand for that sort of thing, but >>>>>>> really >>>>>>> have >>>>>>> no wish to go back to it at this point. >>>>>> I don't see why not, because the language in which a project is coded >>>>>> is somewhat irrelevant following a competent design. >>>>> That's simply not true. A design is constrained by the machine >>>>> lanuguage the software runs on. >>>> Selecting a machine that will not run the program is a significant >>>> failure of system design. >>> Not all software projects include buying the hardware. Most projects >>> already had the computer system. >> >> Then it displays a fundamental lack of competence to design a program >> that >> will >> not run on the target machine. >> >> It remains for me, that whatever program I design, it will run whether >> coded >> in >> machine code, assembly language, FORTRAN, RTL/2, CORAL, C, Pascal, >> FORTH, CRAP, SOAS, or any of a myriad other languages that I have used. > > And the OS developers of this biz made it possible for you to be able to > do your coding job. Wrong again. I used no OS on the PDP8S, the serial one, that I used to measure fluorescent decay to below 1ns levels. > The language developers made it possible so > you didn't have to think about the hardware. I didn’t use any language, I used assembler. > All of these people had to do designs which > had tradeoffs determined by the computing > environment so that you wouldn't have to. They in fact designed the hardware so that it would do a decent job with any of the commonly used languages used in that segment of the industry. And fucked that up pretty comprehensively too at times like when DEC concentrated on Focal instead of Basic for various reasons etc.
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| From | tracymnelson@gmail.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-11-05 11:01 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <f4cb53f6-ef7e-460c-9ae1-10c322c668fa@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #153718 |
On Sunday, November 1, 2015 at 12:37:09 AM UTC-4, Howard S Shubs wrote: > > I saw one a month or two ago for a company in LA or San Diego for a > company looking for MACRO-11 programmers. I don't understand how that > company has survived this long. I figure someone retired. They're > supposedly porting to something else, but at the same time, they're > generating NEW MACRO-11 code?!? I used to keep MACRO-32 and VAX FORTRAN on my resume for nostalgia's sake, until a couple of years ago I got a call from a very earnest recruiter who desperately needed someone with my "skills". I now strip any technologies I haven't worked with in the last ten years off my resume. Hopefully I'll avoid any annoying questions about my Pascal, PL/I and AIX experience.
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| From | Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-11-07 09:57 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <slrnn3rint.rs5.howard@foxtrot.local> |
| In reply to | #154027 |
On 2015-11-05, tracymnelson@gmail.com <tracymnelson@gmail.com> wrote: > On Sunday, November 1, 2015 at 12:37:09 AM UTC-4, Howard S Shubs wrote: >> >> I saw one a month or two ago for a company in LA or San Diego for a >> company looking for MACRO-11 programmers. I don't understand how that >> company has survived this long. I figure someone retired. They're >> supposedly porting to something else, but at the same time, they're >> generating NEW MACRO-11 code?!? > > I used to keep MACRO-32 and VAX FORTRAN on my resume for nostalgia's > sake, until a couple of years ago I got a call from a very earnest > recruiter who desperately needed someone with my "skills". I now strip > any technologies I haven't worked with in the last ten years off my > resume. Hopefully I'll avoid any annoying questions about my Pascal, > PL/I and AIX experience. That is an excellent idea. I should prune mine quick.
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