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OT: efforts to repeal strict public safety laws

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  OT:  efforts to repeal strict public safety laws hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-08-21 09:48 -0700
    Re: OT:  efforts to repeal strict public safety laws Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2015-08-21 11:24 -0700
    Re: OT:  efforts to repeal strict public safety laws Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2015-08-21 19:54 +0200
      Re: OT:  efforts to repeal strict public safety laws Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2015-08-22 09:21 -0700

#150106 — OT: efforts to repeal strict public safety laws

off topic

The NYT had an article about efforts to repeal stricter public safety laws of hte 1990s.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/22/us/politics/joe-bidens-role-in-90s-crime-law-could-haunt-any-presidential-bid.html

Advocates say reduced crime eliminated the need for such laws.  But, in my own humble opinion, we have reduced crime because dangerous offenders were taken off the streets as a result of these laws.  I well remember high street crime of the 1970s and 1980s, and I don't want to return to those days.


ob comp:  There were several programs in those days to train prison inmates to become computer programmers.  I don't know how well those programs worked out; unfortunately, I can't find any literature on it.  I don't know what kind of inmate training, if any, exists today.  (One prison has a culniary arts program and the inmates run a restaurant under supervision; which is open the public.  The food is good.)

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#150109

hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com writes:
> The NYT had an article about efforts to repeal stricter public safety laws of hte 1990s.
>
> http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/22/us/politics/joe-bidens-role-in-90s-crime-law-could-haunt-any-presidential-bid.html
>
> Advocates say reduced crime eliminated the need for such laws.  But,
> in my own humble opinion, we have reduced crime because dangerous
> offenders were taken off the streets as a result of these laws.  I
> well remember high street crime of the 1970s and 1980s, and I don't
> want to return to those days.
>
> ob comp: There were several programs in those days to train prison
> inmates to become computer programmers.  I don't know how well those
> programs worked out; unfortunately, I can't find any literature on it.
> I don't know what kind of inmate training, if any, exists today.  (One
> prison has a culniary arts program and the inmates run a restaurant
> under supervision; which is open the public.  The food is good.)

the scenario from Freakonomics is that they were expecting big uptic in
crime in the 90s ... but it didn't happened ... in fact the reverse
(crime dropped).  they claim it correlates with legalizing abortions
... that major factor in crime was unwanted children growing up
http://freakonomics.com/

the other side was that the new crime laws resulted in enormous upsurge
in non-violent, frequently victimless crimes to populate the for-profit
prisons (low-cost low-overhead prisoners) ... turning the US into the
largest per-capita prison population in the world
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_incarceration_rate

... and for-profit prisons have become the largest lobby that you never
heard of.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/04/28/how-for-profit-prisons-have-become-the-biggest-lobby-no-one-is-talking-about/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_prison
https://www.aclu.org/banking-bondage-private-prisons-and-mass-incarceration
http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2015/06/private-prisons-profit

-- 
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

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#150146

In article <e88af4b8-67de-4409-8beb-a1e7d07b354e@googlegroups.com>,
 <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> wrote:
>off topic
>
>The NYT had an article about efforts to repeal stricter public safety laws
>of hte 1990s.
>
>http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/22/us/politics/joe-bidens-role-in-90s-crime-law-could-haunt-any-presidential-bid.html
>
>Advocates say reduced crime eliminated the need for such laws.  But, in my
>own humble opinion, we have reduced crime because dangerous offenders were
>taken off the streets as a result of these laws.  I well remember high
>street crime of the 1970s and 1980s, and I don't want to return to those
>days.
>
>
>ob comp:  There were several programs in those days to train prison inmates
>to become computer programmers.  I don't know how well those programs
>worked out; unfortunately, I can't find any literature on it.  I don't know

I have recruited programmers for nearly four decades now. A person
has either got it, or they ain't got it. There is no try. This talent
is with 10-15% of the general population. There is very little variance
between social groups, once people get the chance to learn. With the
right supervision you sort them out within a few weeks. 

In a PPOE we had great success trawling immigrant circles for the
savvy ones. There really in a common programmers culture, and it
trancends the normal cultures and religions.

I don't see why prisoners should be much different. Perhaps the
success rate would be a little lower, but 10% should be able to
pass.

>what kind of inmate training, if any, exists today.  (One prison has a
>culniary arts program and the inmates run a restaurant under supervision;
>which is open the public.  The food is good.)

We have had great success with the two-year retrofit to society
program for long-term prisoners.

-- mrr

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#150165

Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> writes:
> I have recruited programmers for nearly four decades now. A person
> has either got it, or they ain't got it. There is no try. This talent
> is with 10-15% of the general population. There is very little variance
> between social groups, once people get the chance to learn. With the
> right supervision you sort them out within a few weeks. 
>
> In a PPOE we had great success trawling immigrant circles for the
> savvy ones. There really in a common programmers culture, and it
> trancends the normal cultures and religions.
>
> I don't see why prisoners should be much different. Perhaps the
> success rate would be a little lower, but 10% should be able to
> pass.

i immediately tried to hit the like button, spending too much
time on facebook.

-- 
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

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