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Groups > alt.folklore.computers > #148881

Re: 1973--TI 8 digit electric calculator--$99.95

From "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com>
Newsgroups alt.folklore.computers
Subject Re: 1973--TI 8 digit electric calculator--$99.95
Date 2015-07-24 05:51 +1000
Message-ID <d1cutcFgpviU1@mid.individual.net> (permalink)
References (15 earlier) <PM00051B623040E297@aca42ea8.ipt.aol.com> <210720151401353135%timstreater@greenbee.net> <PM00051B75E9682BEF@aca40d0e.ipt.aol.com> <349e8c20-708b-4f0d-b15a-834df4459bc1@googlegroups.com> <PM00051B89F41FC9A8@aca24c78.ipt.aol.com>

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"jmfbahciv" <See.above@aol.com> wrote in message 
news:PM00051B89F41FC9A8@aca24c78.ipt.aol.com...
> Quadibloc wrote:
>> On Wednesday, July 22, 2015 at 6:20:09 AM UTC-6, jmfbahciv wrote:
>>> Tim Streater wrote:
>>
>>> > People buy
>>> > computers to use as tools, not to write bespoke software on, certainly
>>> > not at least if the bespoke software they're writing is 99% the same 
>>> > as
>>> > the guy's next door.
>>
>>> The "computer as a tool" didn't happen until the mid-80s when PCs became
>>> cheap enough for Joe Shmoe to buy and use.
>>
>> Your sentence alone, quoted in isolation, without the context of what you
> were
>> replying to, would obviously be inaccurate.

> Sorry.  Change that to "computer system as a tool" where system
> implies a canned hard/software entity.  Does that sound better?

Still doesn’t work with your mid-80s claim, that started
to happen well before the mid 80s and had nothing to
do with PCs, DEC was doing it with PDP-8s and TSS-8.

>> A "tool" is a machine that enables people to do things more easily than 
>> they
>> could without it. Thus, a crowbar is a tool, and MANIAC I was a tool - it 
>> let
>> people do the large number of numerical calculations required to design a
>> hydrogen bomb more easily than if they had to do them by hand.

>> But _given_ the context, you're talking about computers being used to run
>> packaged software, and not being programmed. That is a different matter.

>> And it is true that few computers - not even PDP-8 computers - were 
>> bought
>> to run only packaged software. (Of course, a PDP-8 in an embedded system,
>> some of which existed, would naturally do so.) That did only happen as 
>> the
>> usual practice with micros.

> There were other businesses which would buy our hardware and resell
> the hardware with their prepackaged software as an entity.  DEC didn't
> do that.

DEC did actually with PDP8s and TSS-8 and WPS-8 as well.

In spades with word processors.

>> That computers were used to run _some_ packaged software, other than
>> compilers and utilities and so on, though - that had been around for 
>> longer.
>> Lots of companies sold things like database programs for the IBM 360.
>> That got started with something called "unbundling".

> Sure.  DEC didn't sell "off the shelf" systems.

They did actually with PDP8s and TSS-8 and WPS-8 as well.

> EAch piece of hardware sold was a line item on the bill
> of sale.  If the buyer of the hardware wanted the software,
> which we had developed in order to sell that hardware,
> there would be another line item on the bill of sale.

Only because not all say 8s were sold with software supplied by DEC.

> Support of for that software (which meant bug fixes and
> distribution of new versions) was a separate contract.

That mangles the real story with OSs.

> There were a lot of customers who didn't do this.

Irrelevant to those who did. Yes, DEC allowed you to
choose how you did stuff like maintenance. I did it myself.

> However, this changed (guesstimate)  in the mid-80s;

You've mangled the date completely.

> customers bought prepacked systems
> with some software add-ons.

Some were doing that LONG before that.

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Re: 1973--TI 8 digit electric calculator--$99.95 jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-07-19 13:25 +0000
  Re: 1973--TI 8 digit electric calculator--$99.95 jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-07-20 13:29 +0000
    Re: 1973--TI 8 digit electric calculator--$99.95 Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2015-07-20 14:42 +0100
      Re: 1973--TI 8 digit electric calculator--$99.95 jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-07-21 12:53 +0000
    Re: 1973--TI 8 digit electric calculator--$99.95 Lon <lon.stowell@comcast.net> - 2015-07-20 07:50 -0600
    Re: 1973--TI 8 digit electric calculator--$99.95 "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-07-21 05:46 +1000
  Re: 1973--TI 8 digit electric calculator--$99.95 jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-07-20 13:29 +0000
    Re: 1973--TI 8 digit electric calculator--$99.95 Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-20 16:13 +0100
      Re: 1973--TI 8 digit electric calculator--$99.95 jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-07-21 12:53 +0000
        Re: 1973--TI 8 digit electric calculator--$99.95 Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2015-07-21 14:01 +0100
          Re: 1973--TI 8 digit electric calculator--$99.95 Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2015-07-21 14:42 +0000
            Re: 1973--TI 8 digit electric calculator--$99.95 Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2015-07-21 15:53 +0100
            Re: 1973--TI 8 digit electric calculator--$99.95 jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-07-22 12:20 +0000
            Re: 1973--TI 8 digit electric calculator--$99.95 jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-07-22 12:20 +0000
              Re: 1973--TI 8 digit electric calculator--$99.95 Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-22 16:58 +0100
                Re: 1973--TI 8 digit electric calculator--$99.95 Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2015-07-22 16:07 +0000
                Re: 1973--TI 8 digit electric calculator--$99.95 Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2015-07-22 19:35 +0100
                Re: 1973--TI 8 digit electric calculator--$99.95 Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2015-07-30 22:50 +0000
                Re: 1973--TI 8 digit electric calculator--$99.95 Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2015-07-31 09:00 +0100
                Re: 1973--TI 8 digit electric calculator--$99.95 jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-07-23 12:22 +0000
                Re: 1973--TI 8 digit electric calculator--$99.95 "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-07-24 05:52 +1000
              Re: 1973--TI 8 digit electric calculator--$99.95 "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-07-23 06:41 +1000
          Re: 1973--TI 8 digit electric calculator--$99.95 jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-07-22 12:20 +0000
            Re: 1973--TI 8 digit electric calculator--$99.95 hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-07-22 07:25 -0700
              Re: 1973--TI 8 digit electric calculator--$99.95 Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2015-07-22 16:02 +0000
                Re: 1973--TI 8 digit electric calculator--$99.95 hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-07-22 10:20 -0700
                Re: 1973--TI 8 digit electric calculator--$99.95 Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2015-07-22 19:37 +0200
                Re: 1973--TI 8 digit electric calculator--$99.95 Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2015-07-23 15:37 -0700
                Re: 1973--TI 8 digit electric calculator--$99.95 Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2015-07-24 01:17 +0200
                Re: 1973--TI 8 digit electric calculator--$99.95 Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2015-07-24 11:12 -0700
                Re: 1973--TI 8 digit electric calculator--$99.95 jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-07-24 11:52 +0000
                Re: 1973--TI 8 digit electric calculator--$99.95 Morten Reistad <first@last.name> - 2015-07-24 18:01 +0200
                Re: 1973--TI 8 digit electric calculator--$99.95 Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2015-07-24 20:41 +0000
                Re: 1973--TI 8 digit electric calculator--$99.95 Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2015-07-24 17:06 -0400
                Re: 1973--TI 8 digit electric calculator--$99.95 jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-07-25 12:42 +0000
                Re: 1973--TI 8 digit electric calculator--$99.95 Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2015-07-25 14:13 +0000
                Re: 1973--TI 8 digit electric calculator--$99.95 lawrence@cluon.com - 2015-07-27 03:00 +0200
                Re: 1973--TI 8 digit electric calculator--$99.95 Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2015-07-27 14:08 +0000
                Re: 1973--TI 8 digit electric calculator--$99.95 Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2015-07-27 08:43 -0700
                Re: 1973--TI 8 digit electric calculator--$99.95 Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2015-07-27 13:56 -0700
                Re: 1973--TI 8 digit electric calculator--$99.95 Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2015-07-25 17:23 +0100
                Re: 1973--TI 8 digit electric calculator--$99.95 "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-07-26 05:49 +1000
                Re: process accounting, was 1973--TI 8 digit electric calculator--$99.95 scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2015-07-27 13:24 +0000
                Re: 1973--TI 8 digit electric calculator--$99.95 Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2015-07-25 16:30 +0200
                Re: 1973--TI 8 digit electric calculator--$99.95 sidd@situ.com (sidd) - 2015-07-26 01:05 -0400
                Re: 1973--TI 8 digit electric calculator--$99.95 scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2015-07-27 13:23 +0000
                Re: 1973--TI 8 digit electric calculator--$99.95 "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-07-30 16:24 +1000
                Re: 1973--TI 8 digit electric calculator--$99.95 jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-07-23 12:22 +0000
                Re: 1973--TI 8 digit electric calculator--$99.95 "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-07-24 05:58 +1000
              Re: 1973--TI 8 digit electric calculator--$99.95 jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-07-23 12:22 +0000
                Re: 1973--TI 8 digit electric calculator--$99.95 "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-07-24 05:58 +1000
                Re: 1973--TI 8 digit electric calculator--$99.95 Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2015-07-30 22:50 +0000
                Re: 1973--TI 8 digit electric calculator--$99.95 "JHY" <JHY5566@nospam.com> - 2015-07-31 14:00 +1000
                Re: 1973--TI 8 digit electric calculator--$99.95 Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2015-07-31 09:06 +0100
            Re: 1973--TI 8 digit electric calculator--$99.95 Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2015-07-22 15:26 +0200
              Re: 1973--TI 8 digit electric calculator--$99.95 hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-07-22 09:53 -0700
                Re: 1973--TI 8 digit electric calculator--$99.95 Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2015-07-22 18:23 +0100
                Re: 1973--TI 8 digit electric calculator--$99.95 "JHY" <JHY5566@nospam.com> - 2015-07-23 06:08 +1000
                Re: 1973--TI 8 digit electric calculator--$99.95 Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2015-07-22 22:44 +0200
              Re: 1973--TI 8 digit electric calculator--$99.95 "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-07-23 06:38 +1000
              Re: 1973--TI 8 digit electric calculator--$99.95 jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-07-23 12:22 +0000
                Re: 1973--TI 8 digit electric calculator--$99.95 "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-07-24 05:57 +1000
                Re: 1973--TI 8 digit electric calculator--$99.95 Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-24 02:07 +0100
                Re: 1973--TI 8 digit electric calculator--$99.95 "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-07-24 11:43 +1000
                Re: 1973--TI 8 digit electric calculator--$99.95 Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2015-07-24 00:54 +0200
                Re: 1973--TI 8 digit electric calculator--$99.95 "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-07-24 10:21 +1000
                Re: 1973--TI 8 digit electric calculator--$99.95 Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2015-07-24 02:15 +0100
                Re: 1973--TI 8 digit electric calculator--$99.95 "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-07-24 11:46 +1000
              Re: 1973--TI 8 digit electric calculator--$99.95 Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2015-07-24 05:59 -0700
              Re: 1973--TI 8 digit electric calculator--$99.95 Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2015-07-24 06:00 -0700
            Re: 1973--TI 8 digit electric calculator--$99.95 Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2015-07-22 11:19 -0700
              Re: 1973--TI 8 digit electric calculator--$99.95 "JHY" <JHY5566@nospam.com> - 2015-07-23 06:26 +1000
              Re: 1973--TI 8 digit electric calculator--$99.95 jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-07-23 12:22 +0000
                Re: 1973--TI 8 digit electric calculator--$99.95 "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-07-24 05:51 +1000
            Re: 1973--TI 8 digit electric calculator--$99.95 "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-07-23 06:40 +1000

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