Re: The joy of Engine-Cars

From	Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Newsgroups	alt.folklore.computers
Subject	Re: The joy of Engine-Cars
Date	2024-11-03 10:42 -1000
Organization	Wheeler&Wheeler
Message-ID	<87ldy0yrq1.fsf@localhost> (permalink)
References	(5 earlier) <loklfdFd8tuU2@mid.individual.net> <cB9VO.262982$WXO8.111479@fx13.iad> <874j4q886a.fsf@enoch.nodomain.nowhere> <vg6v0f$7ffq$1@dont-email.me> <oKIVO.230115$WtV9.176293@fx10.iad>

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Bud Frede <frede@mouse-potato.com> writes:
> Detroit had slashed their R&D and engineering budgets, and I feel that
> may also have led to the problems with US cars in the late '60s through
> the '80s or so.
>
> My father knew a whole lot of people who had been let go at Chrysler in
> the '60s, and used to say that was why Chrysler products were so
> awful. I've read that similar things happened with the other US
> automakers.

trivia: 70s, US auto makers were being hit hard (and looses) by foreign
makers with cheap imports. Congress establishes import quotas that was
to provide US makers with significant profits for completely remaking
themselves (however the US makers just pocketed the profits and
continued business as usual, early 80s saw calls for 100% unearned
profit tax).

The foreign makers determined at quotas set, they could sell as many
higher end cars (with greater profits, which further reduced any
downward pressure on US car prices and increased the US industry
significant profits that they pocketed). At the time, car business was
taking 7-8yrs to come out with new design (from initial to rolling off
the line, usually two efforts in parallel offset 3-4yrs to simulate
something new, more often), and the foreign makers cut their elapsed
time in half to 3-4yrs (as part of completely different product).

In 1990, there was "C4 taskforce" (by us makers) to look at (finally?)
completely remaking themselves and since they were planning on
leveraging technology, technology companies were invited to participat
and I was one from IBM (other was POK mainframe IBMer).

At the time foreign makers were in the process of cutting elapsed time
in half again, from 3-4yrs to 18-24months (while US was still 7-8yrs),
giving foreign makers significant advantage in transition to new designs
incorporating new technologies and changing customer preferences. US
long development time was aggravated by most of US makers had spun off
their part business ... and were finding that equipment that were part
of 8yr old designs had changed and they had further delays adapting
design for current equipment.

Offline, I would chide the IBM mainframe rep what was their
contribution, since they had some of the same problems.

Roll forward two decades and bailouts showed they still hadn't been able
to make the transition.

-- 
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

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Re: The joy of Democracy D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-10-22 09:46 +0200
  Re: The joy of Democracy The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-22 09:54 +0100
    Re: The joy of Democracy D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-10-22 21:45 +0200
      Re: The joy of Democracy Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-10-22 21:04 +0000
        Re: The joy of Democracy Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-22 22:28 +0000
          Re: The joy of Democracy Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-10-23 00:27 +0000
            Re: The joy of Democracy Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-23 00:52 +0000
            Re: The joy of Democracy D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-10-23 10:07 +0200
              Re: The joy of Democracy Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-10-23 15:40 +0000
                Re: The joy of Democracy Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-23 21:20 +0000
            Re: The joy of Democracy The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-23 11:34 +0100
              Re: The joy of Democracy vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2024-10-23 18:00 +0000
                Re: The joy of Democracy scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-10-23 18:28 +0000
                Re: The joy of Democracy The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-23 21:26 +0100
                Re: The joy of Democracy Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2024-10-23 16:28 -0400
                Re: The joy of Democracy Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-23 21:18 +0000
                Re: The joy of Democracy rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-23 23:26 +0000
                Re: The joy of Democracy Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-24 00:50 +0000
                Re: The joy of Democracy D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-10-24 10:11 +0200
                Re: The joy of Democracy The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-24 11:58 +0100
                Re: The joy of Democracy rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-24 17:02 +0000
                Re: The joy of Democracy D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-10-24 21:14 +0200
                Re: The joy of Linux Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-24 20:58 +0000
                Re: The joy of Linux scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-10-24 22:30 +0000
                Re: The joy of Linux rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-25 00:30 +0000
                Re: The joy of Linux Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-25 01:36 +0000
                Re: The joy of Linux rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-25 03:54 +0000
                Re: The joy of Linux scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-10-25 14:00 +0000
              Re: The joy of Democracy Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-23 21:05 +0000
                Re: The joy of Democracy scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-10-23 22:03 +0000
                Re: The joy of Democracy rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-23 23:39 +0000
                Re: The joy of Democracy D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-10-24 10:12 +0200
        Re: The joy of Democracy Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2024-10-22 14:04 -1000
          Re: The joy of Patents Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-23 00:16 +0000
            Re: The joy of Patents Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2024-10-22 15:40 -1000
              Re: The joy of Patents Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-23 02:04 +0000
              Re: The joy of Patents Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2024-10-23 01:15 -1000
                Re: The joy of Patents Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2024-10-25 07:46 -1000
          Re: The joy of Democracy Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-10-23 00:27 +0000
        Re: The joy of Democracy D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-10-23 10:02 +0200
          Re: The joy of Democracy Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-10-23 15:40 +0000
            Re: The joy of Democracy D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-10-23 21:40 +0200
              Re: The joy of Democracy Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-10-24 20:02 +0000
                Re: The joy of Democracy D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-10-25 10:59 +0200
                Re: The joy of Democracy The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-25 10:29 +0100
                Re: The joy of Democracy D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-10-25 22:11 +0200
                Re: The joy of Democracy Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-10-26 04:38 +0000
                Re: The joy of Democracy D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-10-26 12:18 +0200
                Re: The joy of Democracy Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-10-26 18:01 +0000
                Re: The joy of Democracy D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-10-26 22:06 +0200
                Re: The joy of Democracy Mister Johnson <root@example.net> - 2024-10-26 22:39 +0000
                Re: The joy of Democracy Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-10-27 02:06 +0000
                Re: The joy of Democracy Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2024-10-27 02:00 -0300
                Re: The joy of Population Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-27 05:54 +0000
                Re: The joy of Population David LaRue <huey.dll@tampabay.rr.com> - 2024-10-27 06:31 +0000
                Re: The joy of Science Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-27 07:18 +0000
                Re: The joy of Science David LaRue <huey.dll@tampabay.rr.com> - 2024-10-27 09:17 +0000
                Re: The joy of Science moi <findlaybill@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2024-10-27 17:16 +0000
                Re: The joy of Science Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-27 21:08 +0000
                Re: The joy of Science David LaRue <huey.dll@tampabay.rr.com> - 2024-10-27 23:24 +0000
                Re: The joy of Science John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2024-10-27 23:46 +0000
                Re: The joy of Science Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-28 00:04 +0000
                Re: The joy of Science geodandw <geodandw@gmail.com> - 2024-10-27 23:57 -0400
                Re: The joy of Science Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-28 04:25 +0000
                Re: The joy of Science Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-10-28 02:42 +0000
                Re: The joy of Science Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-28 03:53 +0000
                Re: The joy of Science geodandw <geodandw@gmail.com> - 2024-10-27 23:56 -0400
                Re: The joy of Science Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-28 04:25 +0000
                Re: The joy of Science scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-10-28 15:18 +0000
                Re: The joy of Science moi <findlaybill@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2024-10-28 16:58 +0000
                Re: The joy of Science John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-10-28 10:21 -0700
                Re: The joy of Science Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-28 21:26 +0000
                Re: The joy of Science John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-10-28 14:46 -0700
                Re: The joy of Science moi <findlaybill@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2024-10-28 23:23 +0000
                Re: The joy of Science John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-10-28 16:29 -0700
                Re: The joy of Science moi <findlaybill@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2024-10-28 23:31 +0000
                Re: The joy of Science Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-28 21:26 +0000
                Re: The joy of Population p.dean@invalid.net (Peter Dean) - 2024-10-27 06:41 +0000
                Re: The joy of Population Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-10-27 16:17 +0000
                Re: The joy of Population Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2024-10-27 16:08 -0300
                Re: The joy of Population Bud Frede <frede@mouse-potato.com> - 2024-11-03 05:24 -0500
                Re: The joy of Population Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-27 21:10 +0000
                Re: The joy of Democracy Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-10-27 16:17 +0000
                Re: The joy of Democracy Bud Frede <frede@mouse-potato.com> - 2024-11-03 05:16 -0500
                Re: The joy of Democracy "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2024-11-03 10:29 +0000
                Re: The joy of Democracy D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-03 22:04 +0100
                Re: The joy of Democracy The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-27 09:39 +0000
                Re: The joy of Democracy Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-10-27 16:17 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2024-10-27 17:30 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-10-28 02:42 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2024-10-29 01:02 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-10-29 03:47 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-29 04:58 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-10-29 15:18 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-29 15:39 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-10-29 18:35 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-29 20:05 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-29 20:12 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-30 00:17 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-30 08:37 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-30 20:56 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-10-29 22:22 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-30 00:04 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-10-30 14:14 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-10-30 20:48 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-30 20:58 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-30 00:24 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-10-30 20:48 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-30 08:35 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-10-30 12:44 +0100
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-30 13:32 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-10-30 18:35 +0100
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-10-30 14:15 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-30 15:18 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-10-30 18:37 +0100
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-10-30 18:36 +0100
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-30 21:00 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us (Scott Alfter) - 2024-10-30 15:23 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-30 15:29 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2024-11-03 12:49 -0700
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-03 21:52 +0100
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-04 00:09 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-04 10:15 +0100
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-04 13:32 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-04 15:48 +0100
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-11-04 17:47 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-04 21:36 +0100
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-04 18:25 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-11-04 17:47 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-04 18:22 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-04 18:33 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-04 21:44 +0100
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-05 01:05 +0000
                Re: The joy of Atheism Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-05 02:38 +0000
                Re: The joy of Atheism rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-05 20:24 +0000
                Re: The joy of Atheism Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-05 22:06 +0000
                Re: The joy of Atheism The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-05 23:48 +0000
                Re: The joy of Atheism Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-06 01:13 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-05 10:29 +0100
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-05 14:05 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-05 20:26 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-05 23:52 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-06 01:17 +0000
                Re: The joy of Atheism Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-05 22:11 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-04 21:41 +0100
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-05 01:18 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-05 10:34 +0100
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-05 14:17 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-05 20:48 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-05 21:52 +0100
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-11-05 17:45 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-05 21:55 +0100
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-05 20:46 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-05 14:14 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-05 21:50 +0100
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-05 23:56 +0000
                Re: The joy of Democracy Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-06 01:15 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-06 00:54 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2024-11-06 19:16 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-06 21:44 +0100
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-05 20:55 +0000
                Re: The joy of Democracy Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-05 22:16 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-05 23:57 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2024-11-06 18:31 -0700
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2024-11-06 18:31 -0700
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-07 03:27 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-11-07 21:19 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2024-11-08 00:45 +0000
                Re: The joy of Urban Living Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-08 01:15 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2024-11-08 16:19 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2024-11-08 19:32 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-08 01:47 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-08 03:08 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-08 04:09 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-08 12:38 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-08 15:35 +0100
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-08 18:44 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-08 21:54 +0100
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-09 05:55 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-09 06:29 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-09 14:10 +0100
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-09 21:12 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-10 10:23 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2024-11-10 12:51 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy William <maus@deb.org> - 2024-11-10 15:20 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-10 19:19 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-10 22:21 +0100
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-11-11 01:56 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2024-11-10 12:26 -0700
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-10 22:22 +0100
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-10 23:45 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-11 10:17 +0100
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-11 20:29 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-11 21:48 +0100
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-12 02:59 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-12 10:50 +0100
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-11-12 18:45 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-12 08:30 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-12 10:54 +0100
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2024-11-14 11:50 -0700
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-15 08:51 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy maus <maus@deb.org> - 2024-11-15 15:00 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-11-15 20:23 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2024-11-10 21:19 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2024-11-11 19:17 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2024-11-11 22:16 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-10 19:17 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-10 22:20 +0100
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-11 11:51 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-11 19:45 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-11 20:02 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-11 21:41 +0100
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-12 08:33 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-12 10:55 +0100
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-12 10:13 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-12 18:39 +0100
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2024-11-13 06:52 +1000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-11-12 21:40 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-13 08:36 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-13 09:29 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-13 12:58 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2024-11-14 08:02 +1000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-11-13 23:06 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-13 23:53 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2024-11-14 11:50 -0700
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2024-11-13 13:32 -1000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-14 00:30 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-13 10:13 +0100
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-09 05:52 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-09 06:31 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-09 06:37 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-09 14:11 +0100
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-09 20:19 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-09 20:37 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-10 01:14 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-10 09:54 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-10 10:33 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-10 10:28 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy William <maus@deb.org> - 2024-11-10 15:23 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-10 19:02 +0100
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-10 21:05 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-10 22:24 +0100
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-10 23:29 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-11 10:15 +0100
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-10 18:28 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-10 21:05 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-10 22:25 +0100
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-10 23:20 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-11 10:14 +0100
                Re: The joy of LibreOffice Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-10 23:05 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2024-11-09 03:12 -0400
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-09 14:06 +0100
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-08 15:34 +0100
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-08 18:50 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-08 21:56 +0100
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-09 01:42 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-09 13:06 +0100
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-09 05:40 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-09 06:26 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-09 14:08 +0100
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-09 20:50 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-09 22:00 +0100
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-10 01:35 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> - 2024-11-10 09:09 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-10 10:39 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-10 19:29 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-10 22:23 +0100
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy Niklas Karlsson <nikke.karlsson@gmail.com> - 2024-11-10 23:24 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-10 19:25 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-10 11:18 +0100
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-10 18:51 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-11-10 19:53 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-11 00:10 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-10 22:17 +0100
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-11 00:00 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-11 10:22 +0100
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-11-11 15:57 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-11 20:00 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2024-11-12 10:09 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-11 11:46 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2024-11-11 07:35 -0500
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy maus <maus@deb.org> - 2024-11-11 20:54 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-11-11 15:51 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-11 15:55 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-11-11 17:24 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-11-11 22:31 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-12 02:23 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-12 10:48 +0100
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-10 10:36 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-10 15:33 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-10 21:03 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-10 21:43 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-10 19:14 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-09 13:11 +0100
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-09 20:41 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-09 21:58 +0100
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-09 21:07 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-10 02:09 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-10 11:20 +0100
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2024-11-10 21:19 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-10 10:58 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-09 05:38 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-09 06:25 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-09 05:36 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-09 06:27 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-09 14:09 +0100
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-09 13:09 +0100
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-09 20:33 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2024-11-10 14:08 -0700
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-10 23:08 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-11 00:23 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-11 10:25 +0100
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-11 20:12 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-11 21:43 +0100
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-11-12 02:32 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-12 05:39 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-12 10:53 +0100
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-12 08:35 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-12 10:48 +0100
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-12 09:51 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-12 18:38 +0100
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy Joy Beeson <jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> - 2024-11-12 20:32 -0500
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-13 10:14 +0100
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-08 03:07 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2024-11-08 16:49 -0700
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-09 06:08 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-07 11:48 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-07 19:57 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2024-11-08 00:40 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-04 13:31 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-04 13:29 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-04 15:46 +0100
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2024-11-06 18:31 -0700
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-07 09:55 +0100
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-07 11:43 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-11-07 21:27 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-07 22:48 +0100
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-08 01:30 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-07 11:36 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-07 11:40 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-07 20:03 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2024-11-07 17:57 -0700
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-08 01:38 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-08 02:51 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2024-11-08 16:49 -0700
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy Niklas Karlsson <nikke.karlsson@gmail.com> - 2024-11-10 01:59 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-10 10:42 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy William <maus@deb.org> - 2024-11-10 15:29 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy Niklas Karlsson <nikke.karlsson@gmail.com> - 2024-11-11 13:30 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-11 14:12 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2024-11-11 11:19 -0500
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-11-08 14:26 +0000
                Re: The joy of Economics Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-04 21:53 +0000
                Re: The joy of Economics rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-05 03:32 +0000
                Re: The joy of Economics Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-05 06:25 +0000
                Re: The joy of Economics D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-05 11:02 +0100
                Re: The joy of Economics The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-05 14:51 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-10-29 18:35 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-29 20:00 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-29 20:07 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-10-29 21:43 +0100
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-30 00:15 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-10-30 10:59 +0100
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-30 11:29 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-10-30 18:33 +0100
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-30 18:33 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-10-30 21:39 +0100
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-31 09:01 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-10-31 16:24 +0100
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-30 21:02 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-31 00:16 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-31 02:02 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-31 09:22 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2024-11-03 12:49 -0700
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-03 21:56 +0100
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-31 00:06 +0000
                Re: The joy of Civilization Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-31 01:57 +0000
                Re: The joy of Civilization rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-31 02:16 +0000
                Re: The joy of Civilization Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-31 02:23 +0000
                Re: The joy of Civilization The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-31 09:30 +0000
                Re: The joy of Civilization Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2024-11-03 12:49 -0700
                Re: The joy of Civilization Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-03 20:55 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-31 09:16 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-31 17:45 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-10-31 10:20 +0100
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2024-11-03 12:49 -0700
                Re: The joy of Technology Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-03 20:59 +0000
                Re: The joy of Technology rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-03 23:35 +0000
                Re: The joy of Technology The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-04 13:42 +0000
                Re: The joy of Technology Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2024-11-06 18:31 -0700
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-03 23:28 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-04 13:41 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-04 18:35 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2024-11-06 18:31 -0700
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-07 03:54 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-07 10:21 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-10-31 00:25 -0400
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-10-31 10:25 +0100
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-31 09:43 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-10-31 18:17 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-31 18:24 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-10-31 21:21 +0100
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-01 00:54 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-01 10:40 +0100
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-01 10:05 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-01 18:11 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-01 22:29 +0100
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2024-11-01 16:14 -1000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-02 05:48 +0000
                Re: The joy of Warfare Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-02 06:21 +0000
                Re: The joy of Warfare rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-02 08:37 +0000
                Re: The joy of Warfare Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2024-11-04 13:21 -0700
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-02 11:46 +0100
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-02 19:11 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-02 22:07 +0100
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-03 09:42 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-03 11:36 +0100
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-03 12:17 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-03 21:46 +0100
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-11-03 19:16 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2024-11-04 06:57 -0500
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-04 13:17 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-03 21:19 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-02 11:41 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2024-11-03 12:49 -0700
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-03 23:53 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2024-11-01 07:04 +1000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-10-31 21:42 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2024-11-01 09:00 +1000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-01 01:24 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-10-31 22:57 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-01 01:35 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-01 02:15 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-01 04:35 +0000
                Re: The joy of Aotearoa Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-01 04:41 +0000
                Re: The joy of Aotearoa rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-01 18:21 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us (Scott Alfter) - 2024-11-01 17:41 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-01 18:37 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-11-01 19:02 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-02 01:24 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-02 11:43 +0100
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-02 11:31 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-02 19:25 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-02 22:07 +0100
                Re: The joy of Engine-Cars Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-02 21:30 +0000
                Re: The joy of Engine-Cars rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-02 22:58 +0000
                Re: The joy of Engine-Cars Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-03 00:22 +0000
                Re: The joy of Engine-Cars The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-03 08:54 +0000
                Re: The joy of Engine-Cars rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-03 19:37 +0000
                Re: The joy of Engine-Cars The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-04 13:21 +0000
                Re: The joy of Engine-Cars Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-11-04 17:47 +0000
                Re: The joy of Engine-Cars The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-04 18:01 +0000
                Re: The joy of Engine-Cars rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-05 03:36 +0000
                Re: The joy of Engine-Cars rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-04 18:46 +0000
                Re: The joy of Engine-Cars Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-03 21:05 +0000
                Re: The joy of Engine-Cars Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2024-11-03 11:25 -1000
                Re: The joy of Engine-Cars rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-04 00:51 +0000
                Re: The joy of Engine-Cars rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-04 00:35 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-03 08:52 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-03 19:23 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-03 21:50 +0100
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-03 23:45 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-04 10:12 +0100
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2024-11-04 01:19 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-11-04 04:57 +0000
                Re: The joy of Insurance Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-04 05:11 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-03 21:07 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2024-11-02 03:24 -0300
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2024-11-02 10:30 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2024-11-03 01:21 -0300
                Re: The joy of Engine-Cars Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-03 04:42 +0000
                Re: The joy of Engine-Cars Bud Frede <frede@mouse-potato.com> - 2024-11-03 06:01 -0500
                Re: The joy of Engine-Cars Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2024-11-03 10:42 -1000
                Re: The joy of Engine-Cars Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2024-11-04 03:21 -1000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy Bud Frede <frede@mouse-potato.com> - 2024-11-03 05:44 -0500
                Re: The joy of Engine-Cars Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-03 21:10 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2024-11-04 13:21 -0700
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-02 11:15 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-02 21:29 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-02 23:47 +0000
                Re: The joy of Engine-Cars Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-03 00:17 +0000
                Re: The joy of Engine-Cars rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-03 01:03 +0000
                Re: The joy of Engine-Cars Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-03 01:12 +0000
                Re: The joy of Engine-Cars rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-03 03:06 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-11-01 13:58 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-11-01 16:32 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2024-11-02 07:54 -0400
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-11-02 17:44 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-02 19:14 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-01 18:32 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-01 01:08 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-01 10:36 +0100
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-01 18:06 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-01 20:45 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-01 22:34 +0100
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-02 01:04 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-02 11:40 +0100
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-02 11:21 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-02 18:10 +0000
                Re: The joy of actual numbers, was Democracy The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-02 19:23 +0000

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