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Groups > alt.comp.os.windows-10 > #178071 > unrolled thread
| Started by | vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2024-08-05 02:34 +0000 |
| Last post | 2024-08-18 01:17 -0400 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 117 — 22 participants |
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MS Access (was: Re: Linux at scale) vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2024-08-05 02:34 +0000
Re: MS Access (was: Re: Linux at scale) Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> - 2024-08-04 22:39 -0500
Re: MS Access vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2024-08-07 01:56 +0000
Re: MS Access "...winston" <winstonmvp@gmail.com> - 2024-08-07 03:01 -0400
Re: MS Access (was: Re: Linux at scale) Philip Herlihy <PhillipHerlihy@SlashDevNull.invalid> - 2024-08-05 13:38 +0100
Re: MS Access (was: Re: Linux at scale) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-08-06 00:25 +0000
Re: MS Access "...winston" <winstonmvp@gmail.com> - 2024-08-06 02:56 -0400
Re: MS Access Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-08-06 23:37 +0000
Re: MS Access "...winston" <winstonmvp@gmail.com> - 2024-08-07 02:44 -0400
Re: MS Access Philip Herlihy <PhillipHerlihy@SlashDevNull.invalid> - 2024-08-07 12:38 +0100
Re: MS Access Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-08-07 21:43 +0000
Re: MS Access Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2024-08-08 07:50 +0000
Re: MS Access Big Al <alan@invalid.com> - 2024-08-08 10:43 -0400
Re: MS Access Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2024-08-08 19:42 +0000
Re: MS Access Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-08-09 01:16 +0000
Re: MS Access rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-08-08 17:42 +0000
Re: MS Access "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-08-12 01:06 -0400
Re: MS Access Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-08-12 08:38 +0000
Re: MS Access "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-08-13 01:51 -0400
Re: MS Access Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-08-13 21:49 +0000
Re: MS Access Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-08-14 02:48 +0000
Re: MS Access Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-08-14 02:50 +0000
Re: MS Access Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-08-14 03:36 +0000
Re: MS Access "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-08-14 03:52 -0400
Re: MS Access Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-08-14 08:49 +0000
Re: MS Access "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-08-14 03:50 -0400
Re: MS Access Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-08-14 08:51 +0000
Re: MS Access Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-08-14 16:52 +0000
Re: MS Access Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-08-14 21:37 +0000
Re: MS Access sticks <wolverine01@charter.net> - 2024-08-14 18:22 -0500
Re: MS Access Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-08-15 00:30 +0000
Re: MS Access Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-08-16 02:22 +0000
Re: MS Access "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-08-17 00:14 -0400
Re: MS Access Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-08-17 07:25 +0000
Re: MS Access Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2024-08-17 23:44 -0700
Re: MS Access Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-08-18 05:28 -0400
Re: MS Access Andreas Eder <a_eder_muc@web.de> - 2024-08-18 11:49 +0200
Re: MS Access rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-08-18 19:36 +0000
Re: MS Access Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-08-18 20:42 -0400
Re: MS Access rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-08-19 20:44 +0000
Re: MS Access p.dean@gmx.com (Peter Dean) - 2024-08-19 05:37 +0000
Re: MS Access Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-08-19 03:18 -0400
Re: MS Access rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-08-19 20:51 +0000
Re: MS Access Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-08-21 23:55 +0000
Re: MS Access Jack Strangio <jackstrangio@yahoo.com> - 2024-08-18 08:43 +0000
Re: MS Access Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-08-18 13:55 -0400
Re: MS Access vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2024-08-15 04:24 +0000
Re: MS Access Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-08-15 14:53 -0400
Re: MS Access "...winston" <winstonmvp@gmail.com> - 2024-08-15 20:22 -0400
Re: MS Access "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-08-17 00:22 -0400
Re: MS Access Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-08-17 07:24 +0000
Re: MS Access Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2024-08-17 23:46 -0700
Re: MS Access The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-08-18 10:14 +0100
Re: MS Access "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-08-19 23:55 -0400
Re: MS Access rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-08-20 04:56 +0000
Re: MS Access "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-08-19 23:23 -0400
Re: MS Access Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-08-21 23:52 +0000
Re: MS Access Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-08-09 01:15 +0000
Re: MS Access Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2024-08-09 06:29 +0000
Re: MS Access Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-08-09 06:32 +0000
Re: MS Access Philip Herlihy <PhillipHerlihy@SlashDevNull.invalid> - 2024-08-08 12:19 +0100
Re: MS Access Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> - 2024-08-08 13:21 +0100
Re: MS Access Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-08-09 01:15 +0000
Re: MS Access Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> - 2024-08-09 08:51 +0100
Re: MS Access Big Al <alan@invalid.com> - 2024-08-05 09:03 -0400
Re: MS Access (was: Re: Linux at scale) Stan Brown <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> - 2024-08-05 12:05 -0700
Re: MS Access "...winston" <winstonmvp@gmail.com> - 2024-08-05 19:32 -0400
Re: MS Access not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2024-08-06 08:47 +1000
Re: MS Access Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-08-06 00:26 +0000
Re: MS Access vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2024-08-07 02:16 +0000
Re: MS Access Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-08-07 02:29 +0000
Re: MS Access "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-08-07 02:02 -0400
Re: MS Access Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-08-07 06:45 +0000
Re: MS Access Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-08-07 22:30 +0000
Re: MS Access Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-08-07 22:44 +0000
Re: MS Access "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-08-07 21:44 -0400
Re: MS Access Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-08-08 03:11 +0000
Re: MS Access "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-08-12 00:28 -0400
Re: MS Access Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-08-12 08:38 +0000
Re: MS Access Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-08-12 14:16 -0400
Re: MS Access Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-08-13 02:10 +0000
Re: MS Access Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-08-13 12:53 -0400
Re: MS Access Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-08-13 21:43 +0000
Re: MS Access "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-08-13 01:33 -0400
Re: MS Access Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-08-13 21:44 +0000
Re: MS Access Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-08-13 23:28 -0400
Re: MS Access Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-08-14 03:29 +0000
Re: MS Access Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-08-14 04:13 -0400
Re: MS Access Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-08-14 08:48 +0000
Re: MS Access Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-08-14 12:49 -0400
Re: MS Access Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-08-14 16:55 +0000
Re: MS Access candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2024-08-11 05:30 +0000
Re: MS Access Jack Strangio <jackstrangio@yahoo.com> - 2024-08-11 07:17 +0000
Re: MS Access candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2024-08-22 21:00 +0000
Re: MS Access Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-08-11 04:15 -0400
Re: MS Access Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-08-11 09:07 +0000
Re: MS Access "...winston" <winstonmvp@gmail.com> - 2024-08-11 11:40 -0400
Re: MS Access Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> - 2024-08-11 18:23 -0500
Re: MS Access candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2024-08-23 22:00 +0000
Re: MS Access Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-08-11 09:06 +0000
Re: MS Access "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-08-07 21:39 -0400
Re: MS Access Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-08-08 03:12 +0000
Re: MS Access "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-08-12 00:23 -0400
Re: MS Access Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-08-12 08:39 +0000
Re: MS Access Just Me <meeeeee@meeeee.com> - 2024-08-07 12:59 +0000
Re: MS Access Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-08-07 21:42 +0000
Re: MS Access "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-08-07 21:53 -0400
Re: MS Access Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-08-08 03:13 +0000
Re: MS Access "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-08-12 00:33 -0400
Re: MS Access Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-08-12 08:41 +0000
Re: MS Access "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-08-13 01:31 -0400
Re: MS Access Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-08-13 21:46 +0000
Re: MS Access "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-08-14 03:42 -0400
Re: MS Access Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-08-14 08:49 +0000
Re: MS Access "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-08-17 23:30 -0400
Re: MS Access rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-08-18 04:48 +0000
Re: MS Access "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-08-18 01:17 -0400
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| From | p.dean@gmx.com (Peter Dean) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-08-19 05:37 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: MS Access |
| Message-ID | <v9ulma$2ojf8$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #178331 |
In comp.os.linux.misc rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote: > On Sun, 18 Aug 2024 05:28:23 -0400, Paul wrote: > >> You can also build your own computer. You'll need a couple screwdrivers, >> a small Philips for some of the screws, a larger Philips for some of the >> others. An after-market CPU air cooler, even has a screwdriver in the >> box (I like those screwdrivers). Your hard drive, when you get it, has >> no OS on it. > > You left out the fun part... Which processor? Which mobo out of many > offerings? Which form factor? Which RAM? Which SSD? Which case and power > supply? > > I used to do that but the thrill wore off. Now I get a box with Windows on > it and select 'erase everything' on the Linux installation menu. Unless > you have specific needs it's usually cheaper in the long run. Sites like pc part picker take the guesswork out of picking parts. And you can try alternatives depending on what's in stock where you live. https://au.pcpartpicker.com/
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| From | Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-08-19 03:18 -0400 |
| Subject | Re: MS Access |
| Message-ID | <v9urjt$2pj2r$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #178336 |
On Mon, 8/19/2024 1:37 AM, Peter Dean wrote:
> In comp.os.linux.misc rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>> On Sun, 18 Aug 2024 05:28:23 -0400, Paul wrote:
>>
>>> You can also build your own computer. You'll need a couple screwdrivers,
>>> a small Philips for some of the screws, a larger Philips for some of the
>>> others. An after-market CPU air cooler, even has a screwdriver in the
>>> box (I like those screwdrivers). Your hard drive, when you get it, has
>>> no OS on it.
>>
>> You left out the fun part... Which processor? Which mobo out of many
>> offerings? Which form factor? Which RAM? Which SSD? Which case and power
>> supply?
>>
>> I used to do that but the thrill wore off. Now I get a box with Windows on
>> it and select 'erase everything' on the Linux installation menu. Unless
>> you have specific needs it's usually cheaper in the long run.
>
> Sites like pc part picker take the guesswork out of picking parts. And you
> can try alternatives depending on what's in stock where you live.
>
> https://au.pcpartpicker.com/
>
(Will need a good browser to get through the Cloudflare picket, for pcpartpicker)
On their $560 budget build, the CPU is a 12100F quad core for $85.
(The F means there is no GPU inside, and this is generally a bad idea.
It means handcuffs on always needing a video card in the box at all times.)
An alternative would be buying a 12100 instead, with a GPU inside, and turn
that GPU off most of the time. Any time your video card is out for a cleaning,
the internal GPU can be used. I'm running on internal GPU, even though
the junk room has a perfectly good spare video card.
The video card selected for the budget build, is an RX 6600 for $180
(that's slightly below the junk card price range). I'm not sure
any of those cards are available in town (Best Buy stocks $500-$700 cards,
my real computer store chain is run by a kook so you can never
rely on any stock being in the store or their warehouse).
https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/radeon-rx-6600.c3696
132 watts
PCI-Express 4.0 x8 interface (normal is x16 lanes)
That's twice as fast as this (slider table at bottom).
AMD used a laptop GPU, a laptop GPU with no video SIP
for decoding hollywood video formats without CPU input.
The wiring is x4, considered to be as shabby as you can
go without being a bottleneck.
https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/radeon-rx-6400.c3813
53 W maximum
PCI-Express 4.0 x4 (normal is x16 lanes)
This is the graphics in my processor. The RX 6600 is 5.92 times as fast.
The RX 6400 is 2.64 times as fast as the GPU inside my CPU.
A RTX4090 is 23 times as fast as my GPU in the CPU.
My GPU in the CPU is suited to playing The SIMS.
https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/radeon-graphics-512sp.c3768
The megalist here has video card benchmark data.
https://www.videocardbenchmark.net/GPU_mega_page.html
The single thread CPU bench rates how most software will run (software
that only uses one CPU core). The 12400 does not do that badly.
https://www.cpubenchmark.net/singleThread.html
The multi thread bench rates how well something like 7ZIP .7z compression would run.
The 5950X with double the cores, is included for comparison. The one
below it is a DDR5 RAM CPU. The one at the bottom of the list, gulps power.
If you get a 14900K today, flash up the BIOS to get a new microcode.
https://www.cpubenchmark.net/high_end_cpus.html
AMD Ryzen 7 5700G 24,553 $158.99
AMD Ryzen 9 5950X 45,639 $358.78 Double the cores
AMD Ryzen 9 7950X3D 62,428 $525.03 Double the cores plus a slab of L3 on the side
Intel Core i9-14900K 60,504 $545.81
The three bottom ones need "coolers", any old thing will
do for the first one (even the in-box cooler is good enough).
I don't like using water in computers, but the kids like it.
I guess the gurgle and the whir, is a thing.
The mains power consumption of my (idle) 5700G right now is 24 watts.
Competitive with my laptop power consumption. And that's with
a single browser page open, and my newsreader. Most of that power
is not the CPU itself.
[Picture]
https://i.postimg.cc/JhVTpFyS/5700-G-at-idle.gif
The CPU is fitted with an NH-C14S, but I wasn't exactly
going to leave the C14S in the junk room when I have one,
so the in-box cooler is sitting in the junk room instead.
The C14S never speeds up on this build (six heatpipes, but
only the one fan). If the C14S is needed for some reason,
I just swap coolers.
Paul
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-08-19 20:51 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: MS Access |
| Message-ID | <lihpiqFgjuvU6@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #178338 |
On Mon, 19 Aug 2024 03:18:21 -0400, Paul wrote: > The video card selected for the budget build, is an RX 6600 for $180 > (that's slightly below the junk card price range). I'm not sure any of > those cards are available in town (Best Buy stocks $500-$700 cards, > my real computer store chain is run by a kook so you can never rely on > any stock being in the store or their warehouse). I've had that problem. When the video card crapped out I hit the stores in town looking for a generic board to plug in, nothing special. Everything was high end. When I went into BestBuy recently for a USB hub it took a while before a clerk directed me to a dusty shelf way in the back of the store that had a plain old 4 port hub. I understand profit margins and all but they do tend to drive you into Amazon's waiting arms for generic keyboards, mice, peripherals, and what not.
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| From | Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-08-21 23:55 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: MS Access |
| Message-ID | <va5uot$1uhn$7@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #178317 |
On Sun, 18 Aug 2024 05:28:23 -0400, Paul wrote: > You can find sellers who don't put Windows on the hard drive. Build-to-order is the easiest way for desktops. For laptops, there are some “white-box” vendors, like Clevo. For example, my first System76 laptop, and I think this one as well, are Clevos, rebadged and with some of their own “secret sauce” put into it.
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| From | Jack Strangio <jackstrangio@yahoo.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-08-18 08:43 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: MS Access |
| Message-ID | <sIEo7n.4tnJ@yahoo.com> |
| In reply to | #178261 |
Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> writes: > > Linux is doing well in the server world, but the desktop will be a > much harder sell. For God's sake, not so loud! Keep it down! My desktop knew nothing but UNIX for 10 years, then has known nothing but Linux for 20 years after that. It would have a mental breakdown if it found out there were other operating systems out there in the world. Jack -- My Wife told me to take the spider out instead of killing him. Went out. Had a few drinks. Nice guy. He's a web designer.
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| From | Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-08-18 13:55 -0400 |
| Subject | Re: MS Access |
| Message-ID | <v9tci0$2fjdn$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #178315 |
On Sun, 8/18/2024 4:43 AM, Jack Strangio wrote: > Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> writes: >> >> Linux is doing well in the server world, but the desktop will be a >> much harder sell. > > For God's sake, not so loud! Keep it down! > > My desktop knew nothing but UNIX for 10 years, then has known nothing but > Linux for 20 years after that. > > It would have a mental breakdown if it found out there were other operating > systems out there in the world. > > Jack > I can see a plan is coming together here. Well, we had a plan, but we drunk all the beer, and now we're passed out on the floor. Oh well, maybe next year. ******* A lot of newer computers, no longer come with an optical drive. Burning an ISO9660 is not a practical option for those. Utilities for "making" USB stick setups, are fraught with problems. Even if you gave the average user instructions, with the state of USB handling, they could hardly be expected to succeed at the task of making the media for the OS in question. USB setups have silly requirements like "present a stick with a partition on it", then the USB tool "formats" the stick and removes the partition in question. The process then, is "logical and makes so much sense". If you wanted to provide an easy path for a Win-to-Linux transition, use a stub.exe to pull down the OS and put it on the disk. That's how Microsoft does it. And even they don't do a good job (can't run their MediaCreationTool.exe on WinXP). On older machines, we can be using our Nvidia binary blobs, and the years-of-support are limited. My 7900GT (suitable for Optiplex 780 refurb with Core2 Duo processor), Linux media now, the screen freezes with graphical noise on it, and I can't flip to terminal and do anything (function keys). A copy of Windows runs that screen fine. How is it that a Windows can run a screen when a Linux can't ? There used to be a time, when Linux was proud to outdo Windows on the length of support for old hardware, but no more. Linux has succumbed to the same hardware snobbery as every other ecosystem. Puppy is the only shining example. It uses XVesa for X11 and that "drives just about anything". Yet, no other distro seems to be able to take a page from the Puppy play book. Puppy is so good, it even runs on hardware, where there is hardly any alignment between drivers and hardware at all! Which is most impressive. Puppy is able to modprobe older hardware, and do a good job on drivers, but for newer hardware, not many things have drivers, and yet it still works. ******* But I'm still on the floor right now, I'm drunk and passed out. Later. The current plan, is for Power Users to embrace Linux, which would be... oh... about 3% of the desktop population. Google has prepared media, to use their ChromeOS intellectual properly and install it on Windows hardware. They're a bit prepared. They've been sipping their beer, and haven't passed out. https://support.google.com/chromeosflex/answer/11552529?hl=en Paul
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| From | vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-08-15 04:24 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: MS Access |
| Message-ID | <li5e7sF9cmkU5@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #178244 |
On Wed, 14 Aug 2024 03:50:58 -0400, "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> wrote in <MZOdnWbqhIRz_CH7nZ2dnZfqn_udnZ2d@earthlink.com>: > On 8/13/24 10:50 PM, Charlie Gibbs wrote: >> On 2024-08-14, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote: >> >> Oops, lost my response. Let's try again... >> >>> On 2024-08-13, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote: >>> >>>> On Tue, 13 Aug 2024 01:51:25 -0400, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote: >>>> >>>>> Note that a lot of companies - mostly as a result of having dumped >>>>> most of their IT people in favor of 'cloud' and 3rd-party management >>>>> - have a "M$ ONLY" policy. >>>> >>>> That would be “a diminishing number of companies”. Those that >>>> deliberately cripple their own competitiveness by restricting their >>>> technological choices are more likely to come a cropper in the >>>> marketplace. Either they go out of business, or they get acquired by >>>> some more successful company. >>>> >>>> Either way, the legacy Microsoft technologies gradually get phased >>>> out of the economic gene pool. >> >> Sounds like it's time for the re-education squad to pay a few visits. >> >> https://www.sandraandwoo.com/2016/06/09/0793-an-offer-you-cant-refuse- ww/ > > M$, and it's lawyers & suckers, have entirely different ideas - they > WILL press, hard, for M$ dominance. > > Technical superiority won't COUNT in most situations. M$ is - by > effort/propaganda - THE de-facto standard. Doesn't matter how much it > sucks. > > This is the REALITY. > > In the END M$ will absorb/destroy Linux - so we'd better have a good > REPLACEMENT. Just sayin' Hate to be the one to break it to you, but there is a Linux subsystem in Windows now. Which is reasonable, considering that Linux dominates everywhere else _except_ the (shrinking) desktop market. "Can't we all just get along?" -- -v System76 Thelio Mega v1.1 x86_64 NVIDIA RTX 3090 Ti OS: Linux 6.11.0-rc2 Release: Mint 21.3 Mem: 258G
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| From | Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-08-15 14:53 -0400 |
| Subject | Re: MS Access |
| Message-ID | <v9lis2$12bf1$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #178262 |
On Thu, 8/15/2024 12:24 AM, vallor wrote: > On Wed, 14 Aug 2024 03:50:58 -0400, "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> > wrote in <MZOdnWbqhIRz_CH7nZ2dnZfqn_udnZ2d@earthlink.com>: > >> On 8/13/24 10:50 PM, Charlie Gibbs wrote: >>> On 2024-08-14, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote: >>> >>> Oops, lost my response. Let's try again... >>> >>>> On 2024-08-13, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote: >>>> >>>>> On Tue, 13 Aug 2024 01:51:25 -0400, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Note that a lot of companies - mostly as a result of having dumped >>>>>> most of their IT people in favor of 'cloud' and 3rd-party management >>>>>> - have a "M$ ONLY" policy. >>>>> >>>>> That would be “a diminishing number of companies”. Those that >>>>> deliberately cripple their own competitiveness by restricting their >>>>> technological choices are more likely to come a cropper in the >>>>> marketplace. Either they go out of business, or they get acquired by >>>>> some more successful company. >>>>> >>>>> Either way, the legacy Microsoft technologies gradually get phased >>>>> out of the economic gene pool. >>> >>> Sounds like it's time for the re-education squad to pay a few visits. >>> >>> https://www.sandraandwoo.com/2016/06/09/0793-an-offer-you-cant-refuse- > ww/ >> >> M$, and it's lawyers & suckers, have entirely different ideas - they >> WILL press, hard, for M$ dominance. >> >> Technical superiority won't COUNT in most situations. M$ is - by >> effort/propaganda - THE de-facto standard. Doesn't matter how much it >> sucks. >> >> This is the REALITY. >> >> In the END M$ will absorb/destroy Linux - so we'd better have a good >> REPLACEMENT. Just sayin' > > Hate to be the one to break it to you, but there is a > Linux subsystem in Windows now. > > Which is reasonable, considering that Linux dominates > everywhere else _except_ the (shrinking) desktop market. > > "Can't we all just get along?" > And that's just it really. Nobody in the C Suite, considers desktops to be worth chasing. We'll do every thing with Cellphones. Need to compress 4TB of files ? Your cellphone will do it. Need to run engineering software ? Your cellphone will do it. Since WSA was canceled, and WSL is still running (for now), it was an "experiment to measure something". For Android, there was no attachment. Initially WSL had no graphics, and the "cover story" was that it was for "Azure users preparing images or something". I used to run a separate X11 server back when there was no WSLg. Now there is a WSLg. My most frequently run GUI application in WSLg, is Linux Firefox. So I can manage more than one version of Firefox, for various purposes. Presumably, my activities are being measured (because there is a custom icon for Linux activity on TaskBar). Microsoft initially had an "ecosystem play" with Windows 10. It was supposed to "organize all your devices", like your <cough> Windows Phone. Since that didn't seem to have the desired attach rate (and consequent buy-into the Cloud), they have sought to build an ecosystem out of "whatever shit sticks to". Take an item, build interconnect to it, see what sticks. That to some extent, is what the experiments are about. The reason Microsoft put ten billion into AI, is they have visions of sugarplums, by renting tokens for a Cloud AI. And you can run up a monthly billing, by having someone read Dad Jokes to you. "That's where the real money is." It's in the same category as Full Self Driving and Nuclear Fusion Power. They're not building an OS, they're constructing Rental Accommodation. They would be equally happy with 3 people paying $10000 a month, as they would having 10000 people paying $3 per month. Success isn't measured in head count, it is measured in dollars. They don't mind if a few customers fall off the back of the cart. And they usually make money, off every OEM PC sold. It does not matter what the people do with the OEM PC when they get it. Paul
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| From | "...winston" <winstonmvp@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-08-15 20:22 -0400 |
| Subject | Re: MS Access |
| Message-ID | <v9m655$153q9$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #178263 |
Paul wrote: > > They would be equally happy with 3 people paying $10000 a month, > as they would having 10000 people paying $3 per month. Success isn't > measured in head count, it is measured in dollars. They don't mind > if a few customers fall off the back of the cart. > This should be no surprise. The writing was on the wall in 2007 with the beta version of Windows Live Essentials and the seminal application for monetization to the masses of consumers. Designed for: - use with a Microsoft Account - Sync with the online account for Mail, Contacts, Calendar, Messenger, Live Spaces, SkyDrive( At that time there were over 5.1 million MSn/Hotmail.com paid subscriptions generating(at 19.95/mo) 1.2 Billion in revenue. While that's a steady revenue, the step into targeting/monetization the 300 Million free Hotmail and 280 million free Messenger accounts and the ability to create Live.com(and later Outlook.com accounts) with MSFT specific services and online ads set the stage for the next two of revenue generation. 3 yrs later(2010) subscription based(Microsoft Account necessary) Office 365(now named Microsoft 365) arrived and by 2013 the primary distribution model for Office(CTR, Software-as-a-Service). In 2017 O365 combined with Windows 10 Enterprise licenses joined the subscription market. As you noted, a few customers fell off the back of cart but not significant(since the fall-off was primarily in the earlier MSn/Hotmail which subscription which dropped to 1.5 million by 2021 and has been stable and slightly increasing) since with Live and Outlook.com ad-free(19.95/mo)...and all still separate for M365 monthly/annual plans in the consumer, SMB, Enterprise market. I.e. It was always about paying $x/dollars per month rather than $x0000/month. The math is pretty simple...include all above types of subcription ad-free, M365(subscription), MSn/Hotmail/Live/Outlook/3rd party.com free(targeted ad revenue)...and the future revenue direction from monetization of one single product in 2007 set the stage for billions more for then and the foreseeable future. :) And all those naysayers who complained about Windows Live Essentials as the replacement for Outlook Express and Windows Mail never understood or realized it wasn't about replacing an earlier product...with those complaints hitting the circular file without a second thought...and that direction continues today in Windows 10/11 and will in the future. But that doesn't discount the fact, that Windows 10/11 is like going to Costco or Sam's Club. - you get what you want, but to still come home with stuff you didn't know you needed, stuff you didn't really need, and stuff you never wanted....but that's also about $dollar$/month too! -- ...w¡ñ§±¤ñ
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| From | "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-08-17 00:22 -0400 |
| Subject | Re: MS Access |
| Message-ID | <WP-cncPmyObguF37nZ2dnZfqn_udnZ2d@earthlink.com> |
| In reply to | #178262 |
On 8/15/24 12:24 AM, vallor wrote: > On Wed, 14 Aug 2024 03:50:58 -0400, "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> > wrote in <MZOdnWbqhIRz_CH7nZ2dnZfqn_udnZ2d@earthlink.com>: > >> On 8/13/24 10:50 PM, Charlie Gibbs wrote: >>> On 2024-08-14, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote: >>> >>> Oops, lost my response. Let's try again... >>> >>>> On 2024-08-13, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote: >>>> >>>>> On Tue, 13 Aug 2024 01:51:25 -0400, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Note that a lot of companies - mostly as a result of having dumped >>>>>> most of their IT people in favor of 'cloud' and 3rd-party management >>>>>> - have a "M$ ONLY" policy. >>>>> >>>>> That would be “a diminishing number of companies”. Those that >>>>> deliberately cripple their own competitiveness by restricting their >>>>> technological choices are more likely to come a cropper in the >>>>> marketplace. Either they go out of business, or they get acquired by >>>>> some more successful company. >>>>> >>>>> Either way, the legacy Microsoft technologies gradually get phased >>>>> out of the economic gene pool. >>> >>> Sounds like it's time for the re-education squad to pay a few visits. >>> >>> https://www.sandraandwoo.com/2016/06/09/0793-an-offer-you-cant-refuse- > ww/ >> >> M$, and it's lawyers & suckers, have entirely different ideas - they >> WILL press, hard, for M$ dominance. >> >> Technical superiority won't COUNT in most situations. M$ is - by >> effort/propaganda - THE de-facto standard. Doesn't matter how much it >> sucks. >> >> This is the REALITY. >> >> In the END M$ will absorb/destroy Linux - so we'd better have a good >> REPLACEMENT. Just sayin' > > Hate to be the one to break it to you, but there is a > Linux subsystem in Windows now. > > Which is reasonable, considering that Linux dominates > everywhere else _except_ the (shrinking) desktop market. > > "Can't we all just get along?" The M$ lawyers will make SURE we can't all get along ... SO ... just sayin' ... time to get working on the Linux replacement FAST - something the lawyers won't have a handle on. Linus isn't so young anymore, when he goes Linux will go to hell and then be GONE. Hmmm ... a "based on" or something completely new ?
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| From | Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-08-17 07:24 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: MS Access |
| Message-ID | <v9pj7i$1qse0$8@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #178292 |
On Sat, 17 Aug 2024 00:22:20 -0400, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote: > The M$ lawyers will make SURE we can't all get along ... > > SO ... just sayin' ... time to get working on the Linux replacement > FAST ... They tried that already, and failed. Threw everything (legal, economic, marketing FUD) at it, and Linux survived. And now, Microsoft is tying its own destiny more and more to the well- being of Linux. So it can no longer afford to be predatory as before, anyway.
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| From | Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-08-17 23:46 -0700 |
| Subject | Re: MS Access |
| Message-ID | <v9s5ck$29o92$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #178295 |
On 8/17/2024 12:24 AM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote: > On Sat, 17 Aug 2024 00:22:20 -0400, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote: > >> The M$ lawyers will make SURE we can't all get along ... >> >> SO ... just sayin' ... time to get working on the Linux replacement >> FAST ... > > They tried that already, and failed. Threw everything (legal, economic, > marketing FUD) at it, and Linux survived. > > And now, Microsoft is tying its own destiny more and more to the well- > being of Linux. So it can no longer afford to be predatory as before, > anyway. I am looking forward to the day when Windows is just another GUI module for Linux (like Gnome, KDE etc). We may get there in about 5 years?
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| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-08-18 10:14 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: MS Access |
| Message-ID | <v9se1e$2b3ee$4@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #178313 |
On 18/08/2024 07:46, Lars Poulsen wrote: > I am looking forward to the day when Windows is just another GUI module > for Linux (like Gnome, KDE etc). We may get there in about 5 years? > X windows, Wayland, or Classic Windows sir? Its getting to the stage where emulating all or part of Windows on linux would actually be quicker than running it native. I remember an (apociryphal?) take about Gary Kildall, who in a summer vacation job was tasked with fixing a bug in megabytes of assembler. He rewrote it in FORTRAN fixed the bug and it ran 5 times faster... -- “It is dangerous to be right in matters on which the established authorities are wrong.” ― Voltaire, The Age of Louis XIV
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| From | "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-08-19 23:55 -0400 |
| Subject | Re: MS Access |
| Message-ID | <FQudnQXY0P9cjln7nZ2dnZfqnPGdnZ2d@earthlink.com> |
| In reply to | #178316 |
On 8/18/24 5:14 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote: > On 18/08/2024 07:46, Lars Poulsen wrote: > >> I am looking forward to the day when Windows is just another GUI >> module for Linux (like Gnome, KDE etc). We may get there in about 5 >> years? >> > > X windows, Wayland, or Classic Windows sir? > > Its getting to the stage where emulating all or part of Windows on linux > would actually be quicker than running it native. > > I remember an (apociryphal?) take about Gary Kildall, who in a summer > vacation job was tasked with fixing a bug in megabytes of assembler. > > He rewrote it in FORTRAN fixed the bug and it ran 5 times faster... Ah, good old FORTRAN ... haven't writ anything substantial in that ... maybe 30 years now. However it IS good and CAN do great stuff. IMHO it's more readable than COBOL even though COBOL always sold itself on being more readable. Write a few needed string functions and ...... Before I retired I *did* write a useful little utility they'd want - in FORTRAN - just to afflict the New Guys who didn't seem capable of even six lines of Python :-) Assembler CAN be faster, but you have to write good tight assembler. Some micro-controller experience helps with that. When RAM/storage is oft measured in BYTES you've gotta do clever work.
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-08-20 04:56 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: MS Access |
| Message-ID | <liim04FktuaU2@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #178355 |
On Mon, 19 Aug 2024 23:55:44 -0400, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote: > Assembler CAN be faster, but you have to write good tight assembler. > Some micro-controller experience helps with that. When RAM/storage is > oft measured in BYTES you've gotta do clever work. I worked on a handheld pH meter that used the 8748 and you knew where every byte was. https://www.thomassci.com/nav/cat1/phelectrodes/0 The Ross electrodes were the same but another programmer worked on the ion concentration meter. We could share some code but there weren't enough bytes to do both in the same instrument. The bench models used the Z80 with all the room in the world, or so it seemed. During the interview for my present job the head of engineering posed a problem and started off with 'assume unlimited memory'. Whoa, Dorothy, this ain't the embedded world anymore.' After 25 years of that and being mostly retired I'm back to messing around with Pico Ws, Arduino Nano 33s, and so forth. Even those have luxurious amounts of flash and SRAM.
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| From | "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-08-19 23:23 -0400 |
| Subject | Re: MS Access |
| Message-ID | <QNycnYO8lqipkVn7nZ2dnZfqn_idnZ2d@earthlink.com> |
| In reply to | #178295 |
On 8/17/24 3:24 AM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote: > On Sat, 17 Aug 2024 00:22:20 -0400, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote: > >> The M$ lawyers will make SURE we can't all get along ... >> >> SO ... just sayin' ... time to get working on the Linux replacement >> FAST ... > > They tried that already, and failed. Threw everything (legal, economic, > marketing FUD) at it, and Linux survived. But Linux=Linus=Linux ... and he's not so young anymore So don't be so confident. M$ also seems to be trying to "contribute" to Linux in various ways and make sure their code becomes the foundation for what lots of people use. Then the lawyers can claim an ownership of Linux - or pull all their code and collapse a large number of needed/popular apps. When it comes to MONEY, expect no end of evils. > And now, Microsoft is tying its own destiny more and more to the well- > being of Linux. So it can no longer afford to be predatory as before, > anyway. I suspect M$ will eventually do what Apple did - buy some flavor of BSD and build a look-alike system on top of it. Won't be easy, but Win is a tangled MESS of code going back decades - I don't think even "AI" can understand it. SOME rumors say M$ has been working on "Win-IX" for a few years already.
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| From | Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-08-21 23:52 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: MS Access |
| Message-ID | <va5ujm$1uhn$6@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #178354 |
On Mon, 19 Aug 2024 23:23:31 -0400, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote: > On 8/17/24 3:24 AM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote: >> >> On Sat, 17 Aug 2024 00:22:20 -0400, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote: >> >>> The M$ lawyers will make SURE we can't all get along ... >>> >>> SO ... just sayin' ... time to get working on the Linux replacement >>> FAST ... >> >> They tried that already, and failed. Threw everything (legal, economic, >> marketing FUD) at it, and Linux survived. > > But Linux=Linus=Linux ... and he's not so young anymore And Microsoft isn’t quite so strong any more.
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| From | Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-08-09 01:15 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: MS Access |
| Message-ID | <v93qjt$cfr0$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #178127 |
On Thu, 8 Aug 2024 07:50:31 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote: > Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote: >> On Wed, 7 Aug 2024 12:38:00 +0100, Philip Herlihy wrote: >> >>> I think it's one of Microsoft's greatest achievements ... >> >> Calling Access “one of Microsoft’s greatest achievements” ... not the >> kind of “praise” they would find flattering, I think ... > > Am no fan of access, but to be fair to MS it fills a niche nothing else > comes close to filling. Make that past tense. It isn’t true any more.
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| From | Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-08-09 06:29 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: MS Access |
| Message-ID | <v94d05$k1gh$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #178145 |
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote: > On Thu, 8 Aug 2024 07:50:31 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote: > >> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote: >>> On Wed, 7 Aug 2024 12:38:00 +0100, Philip Herlihy wrote: >>> >>>> I think it's one of Microsoft's greatest achievements ... >>> >>> Calling Access “one of Microsoft’s greatest achievements” ... not the >>> kind of “praise” they would find flattering, I think ... >> >> Am no fan of access, but to be fair to MS it fills a niche nothing else >> comes close to filling. > > Make that past tense. It isn’t true any more. Do you have examples?
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| From | Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-08-09 06:32 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: MS Access |
| Message-ID | <v94d5i$k1ft$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #178147 |
On Fri, 9 Aug 2024 06:29:25 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote: > Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote: >> >> On Thu, 8 Aug 2024 07:50:31 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote: >> >>> Am no fan of access, but to be fair to MS it fills a niche nothing >>> else comes close to filling. >> >> Make that past tense. It isn’t true any more. > > Do you have examples? Look at LibreOffice Base. Not only does it have its own DBMS, but it can also use a range of other DBMSes as back-ends, such as MySQL/MariaDB and SQLite. Either one of those has capabilities beyond Microsoft Access.
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