Path: csiph.com!feeder.erje.net!2.us.feeder.erje.net!nntp.club.cc.cmu.edu!micro-heart-of-gold.mit.edu!newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!nntp.TheWorld.com!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) Newsgroups: sci.physics Subject: Re: If you can't measure it, is it still science ? ! Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2016 19:03:20 +0000 (UTC) Organization: The World : www.TheWorld.com : Since 1989 Lines: 24 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: shell01.theworld.com X-Trace: pcls7.std.com 1459623800 1102 192.74.137.71 (2 Apr 2016 19:03:20 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@TheWorld.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2016 19:03:20 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: nn/6.6.5 Xref: csiph.com sci.physics:567536 Jeff-Relf.Me <@.> writes: >You (MichaelMoroney) replied (to me): >> > According to general relativity, >> > no path in spacetime can leave the singularity within a black hole. >> >> No information about the position/momentum measurements can make >> it outside from inside. All our measurements must be from a distance, and >> we cannot see "inside" to sense exactly where it is and where it is going. >If you can't measure it, is it still science ? ! >Without measurement, how would one know if >the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle was violated or not ? If you can't measure it, the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle doesn't even apply! HUP tells you that you cannot MEASURE both position and momentum at the same time to more than a certain accuracy. It does NOT put restrictions on the actual accuracy of either position or momentum beyond that. For example, in trying to determine whether an electron is really point-like, we've measured its diameter to within 10^-19 meters, a really really small number. Maybe even smaller than this by now. This doesn't violate HUP as any attempt to measure its momentum at the same time would result in a rather large number.