Path: csiph.com!eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!mx02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com Newsgroups: sci.physics Subject: Re: The Case For Quick Basic In The 21st Century. Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2015 19:25:33 -0000 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 107 Sender: Jim Pennino Message-ID: References: <3ih4ic-c5.ln1@mail.specsol.com> <7vq6ic-0v7.ln1@mail.specsol.com> Injection-Info: mx02.eternal-september.org; posting-host="db4120ef82bbc153014637d4cd15a795"; logging-data="31073"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1/BE+Gbz6oKnY5tb11Oj03j" User-Agent: tin/2.2.1-20140504 ("Tober an Righ") (UNIX) (SunOS/5.10 (i86pc)) Cancel-Lock: sha1:z9NcS9irGiflddqgn9rDoXww3uE= Xref: csiph.com sci.physics:535423 jmfbahciv wrote: > jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote: >> jmfbahciv wrote: >>> jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote: >>>> jmfbahciv wrote: >>>>> jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote: >>>>>> jmfbahciv wrote: >>>>>>> jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote: >>>>>>>> jmfbahciv wrote: >>>>>>>>> jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote: >>>>>>>>>> dvus wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> On 11/20/2015 12:47 PM, jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> dvus wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/20/2015 2:22 AM, jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't know who 'M$' is; is this an attempt to be funny? >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=M%24 >>>>>>>>>>>>> Are you laughing yet? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Puerile; no. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I have seen Microsloth from other puerile posters. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Spoil-sport! >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I've always thought things like that were childish and branded the >>>>>>>>>> users of such as bigots; yes there are software bigots. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sometimes. Other times, there are software developers and >>>>>>>>> maintainers who have to make something work well and are stopped >>>>>>>>> by asspects (correct spelling of a word we used to describe a bug >>>>>>>>> which was a feature of the software) of MS' OS and app > implementations. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> /BAH >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I can understand that. The majority of things I have done require IPC >>>>>>>> and often threads to work and in my opinion Microsoft is still lacking >>>>>>>> in both areas. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Yea. Their focus is on distribution, not delivery of computing > services >>>>>>> so when there is a trade-off to be decided, the distribution option > will >>>>>>> take precedence over a system computing service. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The funcionality we had in our OSes, will begin to appear in today's >>>>>>> computing services. The computing biz is extremely cyclic. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> /BAH >>>>>> >>>>>> Well, as consumer computers don't really have a need for things that are >>>>>> common in the industrial arena, there isn't much motivation for Apple >>>>>> or Microsoft to provide them. >>>>>> >>>>>> One of the most disastrous projects I was ever involved with was the >>>>>> time a manager mandated we use an Apple II instead of the PDP-11's >>>>>> we normally used because the Apple was so inexpensive by comparison. >>>>> >>>>> He only compared the price of the hardware of one system with the >>> other?!!!!! >>>>> In my job, I would have stopped the nonsense by talking to his manager or >>>>> that guy's manager or that guy's manager... >>>> >>>> Yep, that is exactly what he did and would not listen to anything else. >>>> >>>> Unfortunately, there was no one else above him. >>> >>> Ah, small group. I hadn't thought about this non-benefit with a small >>> group. >>> >>>> >>>> In his defense, the concept of controlling "stuff" with a computer was >>>> basically uncharted territory at the time and he did learn his lesson >>>> from the debacle. >>> >>> At least he was capable of learning. How much calender time did it >>> take? >> >> Other than a very long time for what the project was, I don't remember. >> >>> A PDP-8 would have been wonderful. ;-) >> >> We were just starting out in the make a computer control "things" world >> but had already settled on PDP-11 as the platform of choice and already >> had a rather large library of tested helper code in Fortran for the >> off the shelf I/O interface boards. >> >> Of course all that was useless for an Apple II. Things like A/D and >> D/A boards had to be designed from scratch as well as the software >> to use them. > > One of JMF's first jobs was to control a (IIRC) 2-ton bin on rails which > was used to pick up parts in a warehouse. They tried and tried > but couldn't control the speed, especially w.r.t. stopping. > Computers were too big and comm lines were too slow. 10 years > later they could have done it with the new hardware technology. > > /BAH Yep, the MicroPDP-11 series in a 5 inch box instead of a 5 foot rack revolutionized process control. -- Jim Pennino