Path: csiph.com!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!feeder01.blueworldhosting.com!border2.nntp.dca1.giganews.com!Xl.tags.giganews.com!border1.nntp.dca1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!local2.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.earthlink.com!news.earthlink.com.POSTED!not-for-mail NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 06 May 2016 01:29:29 -0500 Message-ID: <572C3A0C.4745@ix.netcom.com> Date: Thu, 05 May 2016 23:30:36 -0700 From: The Starmaker Reply-To: starmaker@ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (WinNT; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written,sci.physics,sci.physics.relativity,alt.astronomy Subject: Re: past,present,future References: <57268915.4F86@ix.netcom.com> <572abd71$0$9123$c3e8da3$5d8fb80f@news.astraweb.com> <33464bd7-4037-4c30-acda-afa2b3350685@googlegroups.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 88 X-Usenet-Provider: http://www.giganews.com NNTP-Posting-Host: 108.219.229.47 X-Trace: sv3-2X1sRYa2ZjP7FfGIRz2yea2acnsbElIsQ696W/uT6Azq5HSSm00dKEeslr9BPPI89GHUUZzOFCLi/OV!yQVDNeiAA4szpxKYfAJ/sqnEl9Ro0OgOccc7fOdgu8fizIEq5FoSAOCCnfIhzqVp1sw/Pui1cEIO!isVf8NFcgzY= X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Postfilter: 1.3.40 X-Original-Bytes: 4668 Xref: csiph.com rec.arts.sf.written:439662 sci.physics:575950 sci.physics.relativity:382857 alt.astronomy:284526 Ross A. Finlayson wrote: > > On Wednesday, May 4, 2016 at 8:26:43 PM UTC-7, benj wrote: > > On 05/04/2016 09:38 PM, Sam Wormley wrote: > > > On 5/1/16 5:54 PM, The Starmaker wrote: > > >> if the past doesn't exist.. > > > > > > > > > > > > If you look at this diagram, > > > > https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/16/World_line.svg > > > > > > You will notice that events are basically in the future or the past > > > > > > The "present" is represented by an infinitesimally small point. > > > > Sam, since "points" don't exist, clearly nothing is in the "present". > > > > So the model fails. One must then ask how much time it takes for > > consciousness to be aware of events? This time is clearly needed for us > > to be aware of the "present". The only way your model can work is that > > if consciousness perceives present events instantaneously. Such "action > > at a distance" does not seem to exist in physics though the QM guys are > > starting to argue that it does. > > Time goes back forever, space goes on forever. > > The present basically "is" the event. > > There's pretty much a forward arrow of time, > but it is a direction, not a dimension. It > is pretty clearly the significant component > of "gradient" (which is basically the model > of the slope that things tend to fall along > the gradient). > > The future is not fixed, the past quite well > is, back to the attenuation of time and the > attenuation of events. This is where, when > a tree falls in the forest, it contributes > to all the background noise there is and no > sound ever truly goes away, only attenuating > to indistinguishability. That's directly > enough entropy in thermodynamics, with that > being classical. > > In the relativistic some may not have "absolute > time" yet still in the total there's a notion > that there's some "absolute time". For example, > the spaceman twins paradox, people tend not to > note that relative to the accelerating twin, > the other one is accelerating away, then that > if the one twin left at light speed, to return, > it would have to leave where it arrived, then about > what happens when the spaceman just goes back and > forth at relativistic velocities. The "time dilation" > still sees that there's no going back in time. > > So, "time dilation" may still leave place in the > theory for "absolute time" just like relativity > otherwise does for "flat space-time", or, as is > noted, that the cosmological constant is an > infinitesimal, and that space-time is more curved > than any line and flatter than any curve. > > The present is all that exists, but it results > from events in the past and results in the > events of the future. > > Then, where all of the past happened somehow, > you might as well simply have time as another > dimension, that all of the universe's space > is basically a picture in time (or "hologram", > where a diagram fits in less dimensions, > eventually just one dimension a "continuum"). > > Then, it is attenuated to where events in the > most distant past have the same origin while > events in the present are "parallel transport", > with "geometry of time". > > Time goes back forever, space goes on forever. Space is forever, but it isn't going anywhere. Time does not exist...you're just have the illusion of time...it appears to be flowing.