Path: csiph.com!aioe.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Odd Bodkin Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity Subject: Re: Newton and Galilean Relativity Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2018 16:01:09 +0000 (UTC) Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server Lines: 72 Message-ID: References: <77a920ee-c7b0-4bd1-aa45-5319afb7496f@googlegroups.com> <13347fa2-ca9d-47dd-9ecf-a591daa51a9d@googlegroups.com> <20769e20-a2db-4063-8886-cbc94179fd4b@googlegroups.com> <4f6c5706-fdec-4942-ae8a-fec53b6871ef@googlegroups.com> <9340ccbe-8764-41bf-8728-6c6c05a54755@googlegroups.com> <09df5290-043d-45c7-9fa5-db8b3fe8c821@googlegroups.com> <6fc1ee4b-13d7-47fa-b2a3-d2d6e24f06b1@googlegroups.com> <0343fd27-181d-4445-846d-3f128bf94842@googlegroups.com> <378f0c09-ea61-41e3-a1d0-83680d161e67@googlegroups.com> <2c1aa581-f5b8-42ab-a484-4c14effe1569@googlegroups.com> <04c5f747-90cd-480b-91f7-1606f1d752bb@googlegroups.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 4zEMF+cZIVBvz6q48M1IFQ.user.gioia.aioe.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Complaints-To: abuse@aioe.org User-Agent: NewsTap/5.3.1 (iPhone/iPod Touch) X-Notice: Filtered by postfilter v. 0.8.3 Cancel-Lock: sha1:KM89bSqRmc3QiBml6YSifm5l8NQ= Xref: csiph.com sci.physics.relativity:472882 Robert Winn wrote: > On Sunday, September 23, 2018 at 8:03:20 AM UTC-7, Michael Moroney wrote: >> Robert Winn writes: >> >>> On Saturday, September 22, 2018 at 11:06:04 PM UTC-7, Michael Moroney wrote: >>>> Robert Winn writes: >>>> >>>>> On Saturday, September 22, 2018 at 9:44:19 PM UTC-7, Michael Moroney wrote: >>>>>> Robert Winn writes: >>>> >>>>>>> If t is the time of a clock in S, and n' is the time of a clock in S', >>>> >>>>>> The time of a clock in S' is t', not n'. >>>> >>>> >>>>> No, it the Galilean transformation equations, t'=t. t is the time of a >>>>> clock in S. >>>> >>>> That's right. t is the time of a clock in S, x is the length of the X >>>> distance in S, y is the length of the Y distance in S, z is the length of >>>> the Z distance in S. >>>> >>>> Similarly, t' is the time of a clock in S', x' is the length of the X >>>> distance in S', y' is the length of the Y distance in S', z' is the length >>>> of the Z distance in S'. >>>> >>>> And n' is the time of some broken clock, irrelevant to the issue. >>>> >>>>>>> So we see that two sets of Galilean transformation equations give the answer >>>>>>> for n' in S' seconds, as would be necessary in order for the equation to >>>>>>> be true. >>>> >>>>>> Nope, since the Galilean transform states that t'=t, all we have to do is >>>>>> swa... >> >>> Well, if you do not want to discuss relativity, maybe you would like to >>> go discuss the length contraction with some of these nice scientists here >>> in sci.physics.relativity. >> >> I *am* discussing relativity, specifically Galilean relativity. Don't try >> to run away. Galilean relativity uses your beloved Galilean transform, and >> I am explaining the meanings of the variables. Specifically t' is the time >> measured by a standard clock in the S' frame. Since t'=t, that means that >> all standard clocks in any frame will display the same time as this one. >> Therefore we have Newton's and Galileo's universal time which is the same >> everywhere. > > Well, so scientists say. However, if a clock in S' does not show the > same time as a clock in S, then a clock in S' does not show t' because t > is defined in the Galilean transformation equations as t'=t. That is not true, Robert. The statement t’=t is not a definition of either t or t’. We’ve discussed this before. You’ve also correctly stated what the definition of the time variables are elsewhere in this thread. But the only way you can seem to reconcile that definition of the time variable in a reference frame with what you claim to be another definition of t’ in an equation, is to abandon the principle of relativity, which was Galileo’s chief insight behind the transformations. That does not seem smart. > The fact of the matter is that a clock in S' could show any time at all, > just as a clock in S could show any time at all. But to be specific, > Einstein said that if an ideal, standard, or any other kind of clock in > S' is placed in motion, then it no longer displays the same time as an > ideal, standard, etc., clock in S. So, in terms of the Galilean > transformation equations, once a clock in S' is placed in motion, it no > longer shows t', even though it did show t' when it was sitting next to the clock in S. > -- Odd Bodkin — Maker of fine toys, tools, tables