Path: csiph.com!feeder.erje.net!2.us.feeder.erje.net!nntp.club.cc.cmu.edu!micro-heart-of-gold.mit.edu!newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!nntp.TheWorld.com!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity Subject: Re: Tom Roberts' Assertion on the Concept of Time Dilation is False Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2016 06:26:10 +0000 (UTC) Organization: The World : www.TheWorld.com : Since 1989 Lines: 55 Message-ID: References: <0b6620f1-ac2d-470e-93fe-985721c9657a@googlegroups.com> <4ca651d4-4903-4a6d-b196-7a42eee87684@googlegroups.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: shell01.theworld.com X-Trace: pcls7.std.com 1476771970 30058 192.74.137.71 (18 Oct 2016 06:26:10 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@TheWorld.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2016 06:26:10 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: nn/6.6.5 Xref: csiph.com sci.physics.relativity:395989 kenseto writes: >On Monday, October 17, 2016 at 7:09:28 PM UTC-4, Michael Moroney wrote: >> kenseto writes: >> >> >On Monday, October 17, 2016 at 11:18:38 AM UTC-4, Michael Moroney wrote: >> >> >> >The GPS says that you are wrong. A GPS second had to be redefined to have >> >> >9 192 631 774.4647 periods of Cs 133 radiation compared to the ground clock >> >> > second which has 9 192 631 770 periods of Cs 133 radiation. This proved >> >> >that a second is not a universal interval (unit) of TIME. The reason for the >> >> >redefinition of the GPS second is to make it to contain the same amount of >> >> >TIME as the ground clock second. >> >> >> >> No, Ken, that is wrong. In fact this is a nice example of how you don't >> >> understand modern physics, as tjrob137 mentions. >> >> >> >> That definition of the second should mention that the cesium-133 atom >> >> whose frequency is being used must be local and stationary. The >> >> GPS satellite is neither local nor stationary so its clock cannot be >> >> DIRECTLY used with the 9 192 631 770 periods definition because of >> >> GR effects. It still remains true that, to a local observer (on >> >> board the GPS satellite, for example) that a second is still >> >> 9 192 631 770 periods of the Cs atom transition. The GPS clock >> >> on the satellite is simply set slightly slow to compensate for >> >> GR effects seen on earth. >> >> >Hey Moron-y......so you agreed with me that a clock second is not a >> >universal interval (unit) of TIME as asserted by Tom Roberts. >> >Gee you are stupid. >> >> No, stupid Ken. I did nothing of the sort. I said that the definition >> of a second is 9,192,631,770 periods of a LOCAL NONMOVING cesium-133 >> atom. If the atom is moving, or if it is in a different gravitational >> field than the observer, then relativity effects will CHANGE what is >> observed. In other words, someone riding a GPS satellite will define >> the second as 9,192,631,770 periods of its cesium clock, and observe >> there is another counter with a period slightly longer than a second, >> which 'ticks' at about 9,192,631,774+ Cs transitions per cycle. >> >> On earth, because the satellite is NOT local, as it is in a different >> gravitational field and moving, we could NOT use 9,192,631,770 periods >> of its Cs clock to define a second. However, the 9,192,631,774+ clock >> is just right, BY DESIGN. >Fucking moron that means that a clock second is not a universal interval >(unit) of TIME. Gee you are so fucking stupid.....no wonder your name is >Moron-y. No, stupid Ken. The second IS a universal interval of time, but, just like length, relativistic effects will affect how other observers see it. For example, a high speed meter stick will have a measured length of less than a meter. Does that mean a meter is not a universal interval of length? Of course not! Under the correct conditions (that is, not moving), a meter stick will be a meter long!