Path: csiph.com!au2pb.net!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!feeder01.blueworldhosting.com!peer01.iad.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!Xl.tags.giganews.com!border1.nntp.dca1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!local2.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.earthlink.com!news.earthlink.com.POSTED!not-for-mail NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 08 Aug 2015 11:42:29 -0500 Message-ID: <55C63177.329F@ix.netcom.com> Date: Sat, 08 Aug 2015 09:42:31 -0700 From: The Starmaker Reply-To: starmaker@ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (WinNT; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.atheism,rec.arts.sf.written,sci.physics,sci.physics.relativity Subject: Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. References: <0ibprahc4d1ldolt1k411s0ja959r30nep@4ax.com> <2rnvral9oac39a445m9eejbogajcqahl3q@4ax.com> <9g62sat66jooq00mg9ro6fktj8qmg7stdi@4ax.com> <55C31685.54A6@ix.netcom.com> <55C45793.73B1@ix.netcom.com> <55C50568.3FD9@ix.netcom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 132 X-Usenet-Provider: http://www.giganews.com NNTP-Posting-Host: 23.241.144.149 X-Trace: sv3-DJCLhUP0nQFY4eBjiLIOO9FOg5XnjxsGk78q2ed7AbQkKoWJSBz+aqgTWrELLpeCuYZ4GPVWLTq/7dd!wS7ginJHyKlNQoYdOQi0CruC2mk/iqLFteewnfLlMAG98WY6IhOrvvjDIX/a+jFA+48oOUxgB3V/!Agrc+n6WcW4= X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Postfilter: 1.3.40 X-Original-Bytes: 6060 X-Received-Bytes: 6172 X-Received-Body-CRC: 706347033 Xref: csiph.com alt.atheism:1955704 rec.arts.sf.written:419422 sci.physics:511902 sci.physics.relativity:360020 Attila < wrote: > > On Fri, 07 Aug 2015 12:22:16 -0700, The Starmaker > in alt.atheism with message-id > <55C50568.3FD9@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > > >Attila < wrote: > >> > >> On Fri, 07 Aug 2015 00:00:35 -0700, The Starmaker > >> in alt.atheism with message-id > >> <55C45793.73B1@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > >> > >> >Attila < wrote: > >> >> > >> >> On Thu, 06 Aug 2015 01:10:45 -0700, The Starmaker > >> >> in alt.atheism with message-id > >> >> <55C31685.54A6@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > >> >> > >> >> >Attila < wrote: > >> >> >> > >> >> >> On Tue, 04 Aug 2015 15:02:34 -0500, duke in > >> >> >> alt.atheism with message-id > >> >> >> <9g62sat66jooq00mg9ro6fktj8qmg7stdi@4ax.com> wrote: > >> >> >> > >> >> >> >On Mon, 03 Aug 2015 17:56:09 -0700, talishi wrote: > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >>On 08/03/2015 02:42 PM, duke wrote: > >> >> >> >>> Prove the American War of Independence occurred. Same difference. No eye > >> >> >> >>> witnesses to testify. Just documents, accounts of others, paintings, artifacts, > >> >> >> >>> etc. > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >>And third party verification (ie France), unlike your gospels. > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >What 3rd party verification. I have the same types of verification for Jesus > >> >> >> >Christ - documents, accounts of others, paintings, artifacts, etc. > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > >> >> >> What do you have that has absolutely no connection, directly or > >> >> >> indirectly, with your bible? Direct verified accounts or 'paintings' > >> >> >> by people who never heard of that bible or any person or organization > >> >> >> connected to it? > >> >> >> > >> >> >> What 'artifacts' what are independent of such sources? > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Do you understand what 'independent' or 'verified' means? > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> >“Now, there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to > >> >> >call him a man, for he was a doer of wonderful works—a teacher of such > >> >> >men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of > >> >> >the Jews, and many of the Gentiles. He was [the] Christ; and when > >> >> >Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned > >> >> >him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him, > >> >> >for he appeared to them alive again the third day, as the divine > >> >> >prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things > >> >> >concerning him; and the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not > >> >> >extinct at this day.” > >> >> >https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus > >> >> > >> >> It is the opinion of many scholars his writings were altered centuries > >> >> ago to fit the necessary pattern. There is no independent > >> >> verification from any other sources supporting him. > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> >How about this ....leading scholar? > >> >https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Did_Jesus_Exist%3F_%28Ehrman%29 > >> > >> Many opinion but few verified independent facts. > > > > > > > >I don't think you're understanding what you're actually saying... > > Sure I do. > > > > >there are things > >that happen > >in the past.. > >they are 'events'. > > Yep. > > > > >The events > >as they happen > >are the evidence. > > No, that is not evidence. It is easy to make up 'events'. > > > > >They are historical events > >that happen a certain way. > > If they happened of course they happened 'in a certain way'. > > > > >They are the recollections > >of people who existed > >as they remember them. > > Fine. Where are these accounts? Are they found in different places? > Are they written by different people? Do they agree with the details? > > IOW, are they independent of each other? > > > > >Are you saying everyone is talking about a person who never existed???? > > Quite possibly. There is no evidence to the contrary. > > Many people by that name probably existed but the exact person > described? No supporting evidence. > Are there many people or even one in the bible with the same name as someone else? You're talking about an era, a community with one zip code. One yellow page. One phone booth. A place where every one goes to one person house to watch TV. If you need a carpenter, ...who do you call?