Path: csiph.com!au2pb.net!news.snarked.org!border2.nntp.dca1.giganews.com!Xl.tags.giganews.com!border1.nntp.dca1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!local2.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.earthlink.com!news.earthlink.com.POSTED!not-for-mail NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 08 Aug 2015 00:25:38 -0500 Message-ID: <55C592EB.2D7@ix.netcom.com> Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2015 22:26:03 -0700 From: The Starmaker Reply-To: starmaker@ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (WinNT; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.atheism,rec.arts.sf.written,sci.physics,sci.physics.relativity Subject: Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. References: <8k1lrah60tmh9kmj4na39snnr6chnftc9l@4ax.com> <0ibprahc4d1ldolt1k411s0ja959r30nep@4ax.com> <2rnvral9oac39a445m9eejbogajcqahl3q@4ax.com> <9g62sat66jooq00mg9ro6fktj8qmg7stdi@4ax.com> <55C31685.54A6@ix.netcom.com> <55C441F1.4E46@ix.netcom.com> <55C44B14.3BF8@ix.netcom.com> <55C44CD8.3DA5@ix.netcom.com> <55C53D19.74FB@ix.netcom.com> <95cb9cfe-3b3a-4bbf-afac-5c9d3a6d2382@googlegroups.com> <55C591CD.41E8@ix.netcom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 135 X-Usenet-Provider: http://www.giganews.com NNTP-Posting-Host: 23.241.144.149 X-Trace: sv3-QiaE5bAD1lf+B2NhRIWcwzXWBW5UMCq3M3FTL2c4rYTym9jh1DZ8X0FF5aFcTk0iZgAfuJwmLxPREOk!CxL8vB0hpfu240KyyCe/w4P6qMkdaxIRynQ07U0F5X9NMBDpDjtK47Lbpw+4BGVZpdaEnQg8R8Yl!QEuucAXz6Q== X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Postfilter: 1.3.40 X-Original-Bytes: 8151 Xref: csiph.com alt.atheism:1955396 rec.arts.sf.written:419384 sci.physics:511851 sci.physics.relativity:359990 The Starmaker wrote: > > Kevrob wrote: > > > > On Friday, August 7, 2015 at 7:19:45 PM UTC-4, The Starmaker wrote: > > > Kevrob wrote: > > > > > > > > On Friday, August 7, 2015 at 2:14:51 AM UTC-4, The Starmaker wrote: > > > > > The Starmaker wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > The Starmaker wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Attila < wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, 06 Aug 2015 01:10:45 -0700, The Starmaker > > > > > > > > in alt.atheism with message-id > > > > > > > > <55C31685.54A6@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Attila < wrote: > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> On Tue, 04 Aug 2015 15:02:34 -0500, duke in > > > > > > > > >> alt.atheism with message-id > > > > > > > > >> <9g62sat66jooq00mg9ro6fktj8qmg7stdi@4ax.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >On Mon, 03 Aug 2015 17:56:09 -0700, talishi wrote: > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> >>On 08/03/2015 02:42 PM, duke wrote: > > > > > > > > >> >>> Prove the American War of Independence occurred. Same difference. No eye > > > > > > > > >> >>> witnesses to testify. Just documents, accounts of others, paintings, artifacts, > > > > > > > > >> >>> etc. > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > >> >>And third party verification (ie France), unlike your gospels. > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> >What 3rd party verification. I have the same types of verification for Jesus > > > > > > > > >> >Christ - documents, accounts of others, paintings, artifacts, etc. > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> What do you have that has absolutely no connection, directly or > > > > > > > > >> indirectly, with your bible? Direct verified accounts or 'paintings' > > > > > > > > >> by people who never heard of that bible or any person or organization > > > > > > > > >> connected to it? > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> What 'artifacts' what are independent of such sources? > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> Do you understand what 'independent' or 'verified' means? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >"Now, there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to > > > > > > > > >call him a man, for he was a doer of wonderful works--a teacher of such > > > > > > > > >men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of > > > > > > > > >the Jews, and many of the Gentiles. He was [the] Christ; and when > > > > > > > > >Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned > > > > > > > > >him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him, > > > > > > > > >for he appeared to them alive again the third day, as the divine > > > > > > > > >prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things > > > > > > > > >concerning him; and the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not > > > > > > > > >extinct at this day." > > > > > > > > >https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is the opinion of many scholars his writings were altered centuries > > > > > > > > ago to fit the necessary pattern. There is no independent > > > > > > > > verification from any other sources supporting him. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm shocked. > > > > > > > > > > > > http://alivecampus.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/shocked_face.jpg > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > how about this guy? > > > > > > > > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacitus#Tacitus_on_Christ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and > > > > > inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their > > > > > abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the > > > > > name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of > > > > > Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a > > > > > most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke > > > > > out not only in Judaea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, > > > > > where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find > > > > > their centre and become popular. Accordingly, an arrest was first made > > > > > of all who pleaded guilty; then, upon their information, an immense > > > > > multitude was convicted, not so much of the crime of firing the city, as > > > > > of hatred against mankind. Mockery of every sort was added to their > > > > > deaths. Covered with the skins of beasts, they were torn by dogs and > > > > > perished, or were nailed to crosses, or were doomed to the flames and > > > > > burnt, to serve as a nightly illumination, when daylight had expired." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacitus#Tacitus_on_Christ > > > > > > > > GoTo the 1st para @ > > > > > > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacitus > > > > > > > > Born circa 56 CE Died 117 CE > > > > > > > > So, he was on the scene 23 years after the traditional death date for > > > > the Nazarene, 33 CE. He wasn't a contemporary of Jesus. > > > > > > > > Thank you for playing. > > > > > > > > Kevin R > > > > > > > > > 23 years??? > > > > > > The story of Jesus Christ...the new testament wasn't even writen until 50 years after Jesus Christ died. > > > > So what. We were talking about non-biblical verification that someone > > called "Jesus" or something close to it had lived and either founded a > > religion or had been the example for a religion founded by his followers. > > Tacitus wasn't alive when JC was, so he would only have heard about any > > Jewish Messiah after the fellow was said to have died. He isn't, as the > > historians say, a primary source. That's not to say he didn't encounter > > Christians in his lifetime. > > > > Kevin R > > Born circa 56 CE Died 117 CE > > Doesn't CE mean Before Christ? You wrote: "Tacitus wasn't alive when JC was..." The Common Era, also known as the Christian Era,[1][2] is the name of the stretch of time from somewhere around the alleged birth of Jesus Christ. Now when was Jesus born? Maybe 86 CE???