Path: csiph.com!aioe.org!bofh.it!news.nic.it!robomod From: Michael Fothergill Newsgroups: linux.debian.user Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re=3A_=E2=80=9CMeltdown=E2=80=9D_and_=E2=80=9CSpectre=E2=80=9D=3A_Every_modern_p?= =?UTF-8?Q?rocessor_has_unfixable_security_flaws?= Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2018 19:40:01 +0100 Message-ID: References: X-Mailbox-Line: From debian-user-request@lists.debian.org Thu Jan 4 18:36:10 2018 Old-Return-Path: X-Amavis-Spam-Status: No, score=0.109 tagged_above=-10000 required=5.3 tests=[BAYES_00=-2, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=2, MURPHY_DRUGS_REL8=0.02, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SARE_HEAD_8BIT_SPAM=0.888] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Policyd-Weight: using cached result; rate:hard: -7 Dkim-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=6JUc/PVRv5EfT9jmkvkeSCYQSCRcPoGZN5i9x3K12aA=; b=X8lb54B7JkGKEayzGTgG5KI5Cy6IRgirf0Gi3v6UmO+ZaRm4q4AJLcO30A3BwRvz+x f183Fea6gESfo8nzwQ3htTd+9ADvbPS+NT6U1PNB9BnoXNGMSQvMtt4b972z/0geXOdC b4SnZcGsSg1gyJZ3rRAUtnx2HEytIsGBdIYMC0EfkH1ezKB0gbWUOUzX3neKFL9Y1xM3 FIOqpK7WeIAXx+TzZgv+EgJgSURf74M6bjJ8ImX3asBdRqutMH8BiX9SxQWcGSTBUxwt OxeVStOr412kc+Mwe5KGp5L6h8/F4f+vFGaC4TgoxE/dDQY8kAut14IhweW60SDZk8Qx tvog== X-Google-Dkim-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=6JUc/PVRv5EfT9jmkvkeSCYQSCRcPoGZN5i9x3K12aA=; b=WLJfKrYsRwCzntejRgrMHtvKv/2izzXCEvfAmsDSv8AwLR3GjZI7Ya/OpsfRaW/mM4 mYi5Hsc7DiqA9WRYeUHbRnUb8K+VnWZ9pUVLGbGcpwVqma02x5oZH+5ywQPN7qBdjLkF Ia69+jcx/JCZ9/CRyc4ktk+gg+YoKv32DmvyNv50iHNd16wWUvs3z1hihuyVR7qePyc/ JMgEviTgtkWxjPYROUzvkvr60FMO6Q9MkAuZSF4qgiActNVy9fDQ6lPJxpjxahyAqcXD DqZh6Li9tLpSIUrTFw6IwWi+5CXw5ZnkTQlVT4Z6hMYi3fUtgkRgOsJsozWt0vs6J7kr NvIg== X-Gm-Message-State: AKGB3mJneVFVxjGomwxYXv7RSug5MoE/DbtV/N6s6ruLtLSvojBDxukx 5YvCwAQQVQ54xo3rwz1IJ9Xsq9oW+vEDLuxPb8jLtA== X-Google-SMTP-Source: ACJfBovAUN4Es/TlCFpck317V+5KyDCnE4oYid3rdY4t8grn9GUV5uCznWDWo+sV5dQlcZeGckj5pPWdKUjK8icpYrk= X-Received: by 10.36.252.2 with SMTP id b2mr443147ith.0.1515089961975; Thu, 04 Jan 2018 10:19:21 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="94eb2c0b0d30fc82a90561f75e45" X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/730448 List-ID: List-URL: List-Archive: https://lists.debian.org/msgid-search/CANc=Sd3_33qZca3+zCBtJDsqgCwkoqyJE_989=hzO56KMnb=ng@mail.gmail.com Approved: robomod@news.nic.it Lines: 153 Organization: linux.* mail to news gateway Sender: robomod@news.nic.it X-Original-Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2018 18:19:21 +0000 X-Original-Message-ID: X-Original-References: <5A4E6A90.4030402@fastmail.fm> Xref: csiph.com linux.debian.user:190665 --94eb2c0b0d30fc82a90561f75e45 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 4 January 2018 at 17:55, The Wanderer wrote: > On 2018-01-04 at 12:30, Michael Fothergill wrote: > > > On 4 January 2018 at 17:22, Curt wrote: > > > >> https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2018/01/meltdown-and- > spectre-every-modern- > >> processor-has-unfixable-security-fladdws/U > >> > >> > >> TL;DR > >> > >> Windows, Linux, and macOS have all received security patches that > >> significantly alter how the operating systems handle virtual memory i= n > >> order to protect against a hitherto undisclosed flaw. > >> ... > >> In the immediate term, it looks like most systems will shortly have > >> patches for Meltdown. At least for Linux and Windows, these patches > >> allow end-users to opt out if they would prefer. The most vulnerable > >> users are probably cloud service providers; Meltdown and Spectre can > >> both in principle be used to further attacks against hypervisors, > >> making it easier for malicious users to break out of their virtual > >> machines. > >> ... > >> For typical desktop users, the risk is arguably less significant. Whi= le > >> both Meltdown and Spectre can have value in expanding the scope of an > >> existing flaw, neither one is sufficient on its own to, for example, > >> break out of a Web browser. > >> > >> Apparent moral of story for CPU: don't speculate (but it's significant= ly > >> *slower*). > > > > =E2=80=8BIsn't this mainly an Intel problem? I use AMD chipsets. I wo= uld go for > > Ryzen nowadays anyway. > > Meltdown so far is not known to affect anything other than Intel. > > Spectre, however, is confirmed to affect AMD CPUs - and Ryzen CPUs are > specifically stated to be affected. > =E2=80=8BBut if the spectre vulnerability is hard exploit in practice and = even in artificial test situations devised e.g. in the world of Linus Torvalds then =E2=80=8BAMD could turn out to be relatively cyber-kosher in the end. MF > > -- > The Wanderer > > The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one > persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all > progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw > > --94eb2c0b0d30fc82a90561f75e45 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On 4 Janua= ry 2018 at 17:55, The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> wro= te:
On 2018-01-04 at 12:30, Michael Fothergill wrote:

> On 4 January 2018 at 17:22, Curt <= curty@free.fr> wrote:
>
>> https://arstechni= ca.com/gadgets/2018/01/meltdown-and-spectre-every-modern-
>> processor-has-unfixable-security-fladdws/U
>>
>>
>> TL;DR
>>
>>=C2=A0 Windows, Linux, and macOS have all received security patches= that
>>=C2=A0 significantly alter how the operating systems handle virtual= memory in
>>=C2=A0 order to protect against a hitherto undisclosed flaw.
>> ...
>>=C2=A0 In the immediate term, it looks like most systems will short= ly have
>>=C2=A0 patches for Meltdown. At least for Linux and Windows, these = patches
>>=C2=A0 allow end-users to opt out if they would prefer. The most vu= lnerable
>>=C2=A0 users are probably cloud service providers; Meltdown and Spe= ctre can
>>=C2=A0 both in principle be used to further attacks against hypervi= sors,
>>=C2=A0 making it easier for malicious users to break out of their v= irtual
>>=C2=A0 machines.
>> ...
>>=C2=A0 For typical desktop users, the risk is arguably less signifi= cant. While
>>=C2=A0 both Meltdown and Spectre can have value in expanding the sc= ope of an
>>=C2=A0 existing flaw, neither one is sufficient on its own to, for = example,
>>=C2=A0 break out of a Web browser.
>>
>> Apparent moral of story for CPU: don't speculate (but it's= significantly
>> *slower*).
>
> =E2=80=8BIsn't this mainly an Intel problem?=C2=A0 I use AMD chips= ets.=C2=A0 I would go for
> Ryzen nowadays anyway.

Meltdown so far is not known to affect anything other than Inte= l.

Spectre, however, is confirmed to affect AMD CPUs - and Ryzen CPUs are
specifically stated to be affected.

=E2=80=8BBut if the spe= ctre vulnerability is hard exploit in practice and=C2=A0 even in artificial= test situations devised e.g. in the world of Linus Torvalds then
=E2=80=8BAMD could turn= out to be relatively cyber-kosher in the end.

MF
=C2=A0

--
=C2=A0 =C2=A0The Wanderer

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all
progress depends on the unreasonable man.=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= -- George Bernard Shaw


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