Path: csiph.com!news.mixmin.net!aioe.org!bofh.it!news.nic.it!robomod From: Matthias Klose Newsgroups: linux.debian.maint.python Subject: Re: Updated PEP 394 (python and python2 commands) Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2018 19:10:02 +0200 Message-ID: References: X-Original-To: Stuart Prescott , debian-python@lists.debian.org X-Mailbox-Line: From debian-python-request@lists.debian.org Fri Jun 8 17:00:54 2018 Old-Return-Path: X-Amavis-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.7 tagged_above=-10000 required=5.3 tests=[BAYES_00=-2, LDO_WHITELIST=-5, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Policyd-Weight: using cached result; rate: -5 Old-X-Envelope-From: doko@debian.org User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/16043 List-ID: List-URL: List-Archive: https://lists.debian.org/msgid-search/275db62c-817f-4c06-ff31-460b589ebe96@debian.org Approved: robomod@news.nic.it Lines: 71 Organization: linux.* mail to news gateway Sender: robomod@news.nic.it X-Original-Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2018 18:59:42 +0200 X-Original-Message-ID: <275db62c-817f-4c06-ff31-460b589ebe96@debian.org> X-Original-References: <6dc7af52-174f-04c5-9149-cc5affa8afb1@debian.org> <20180518091951.jk6gvppn7yxyx5zp@sar0.p1otr.com> <2129b34f-a837-2d14-4400-3fa44785885d@debian.org> <20180518170216.pkxk44ipymh3jspv@sar0.p1otr.com> <20180518172417.kke4qgitz73uihog@sar0.p1otr.com> <38444031-1db5-6cda-f8c2-063580be7d30@debian.org> Xref: csiph.com linux.debian.maint.python:10634 On 19.05.2018 07:24, Stuart Prescott wrote: > Matthias Klose wrote: >> The distro should get >> out of the way of using the python symlink, and giving users the freedom / >> choice what to do about the link. > > I think I understand your rationale to stop shipping /usr/bin/python and > once the unversioned symlink disappears from use in Debian then at least > that particular avenue to breaking one's system disappears. > > What I don't understand is why any changes to package names or dependencies > are required to achieve that goal. > > It sounds like a reasonable amount of work in your proposal, but once we no > longer have any Python 2 applications left at some stage in the bullseye > cycle, isn't the following sufficient? > > --- a/debian/rules > +++ b/debian/rules > @@ -247,12 +247,9 @@ binary-arch: build install stamp-doc > > : # provide the python and python.1 defaults > mkdir -p debian/python-minimal/usr/bin > - ln -sf python$(VER) debian/python-minimal/usr/bin/python > ln -sf python$(VER) debian/python-minimal/usr/bin/python2 > mkdir -p debian/python-minimal/usr/share/man/man1 > - ln -sf python$(VER).1.gz \ > - debian/python-minimal/usr/share/man/man1/python.1.gz > ln -sf python$(VER).1.gz \ > debian/python-minimal/usr/share/man/man1/python2.1.gz > > and then either later in the bullseye or bookworm cycles, those python- > defaults simply go away along with all the other 'unversioned' python module > and interpreter packages. > > What have I (and others!) missed that would make a rather elaborate > packaging dance preferable to this? from my point of view this doesn't address: - being able to de-install the python command for buster, if people don't use it. Most dependencies are auto-generated, so these could be replaced by dependencies on python2. I would assume that the majority of users won't have to install the python package anymore, unless they are doing python2 development. - Not having a python package in bullseye (buster+1), but a python2 package doesn't point to any "default" anymore. Many users are installing just python, because it's the unversioned package. So make it clear that this is another version, and with having the choice of python2 and python3, most users will install python3. Note that with the command-not-found package installed (and using python3), and not having python installed, you get now a message $ python Command 'python' not found, but can be installed with: sudo apt install python3 sudo apt install python You also have python3 installed, you can run 'python3' instead. Assuming that you only have python2 installed in buster, you get this hint already in buster, pointing to python3. You can't do this without a separate python2 package. Matthias