Path: csiph.com!aioe.org!bofh.it!news.nic.it!robomod From: Thomas Goirand Newsgroups: linux.debian.maint.python Subject: Re: Python 3.11, bytecode and new internals Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2022 09:30:01 +0100 Message-ID: References: X-Mailbox-Line: From debian-python-request@lists.debian.org Tue Nov 22 08:22:28 2022 Old-Return-Path: X-Amavis-Spam-Status: No, score=-110.005 tagged_above=-10000 required=5.3 tests=[BAYES_00=-2, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.515, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, LDO_WHITELIST=-5, MURPHY_DRUGS_REL8=0.02, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, USER_IN_DKIM_WELCOMELIST=-0.01, USER_IN_DKIM_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.5.0 Content-Language: en-US Organization: Debian Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Debian-User: zigo X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/20494 List-ID: List-URL: List-Archive: https://lists.debian.org/msgid-search/df086dd9-c784-7fb5-f384-758e0e27e6d8@debian.org Approved: robomod@news.nic.it Lines: 72 Sender: robomod@news.nic.it X-Original-Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2022 09:22:05 +0100 X-Original-Message-ID: X-Original-References: <6a68f118-391b-2e81-c325-3148a0970ef8@debian.org> Xref: csiph.com linux.debian.maint.python:14634 On 11/21/22 18:30, Sandro Tosi wrote: > On Mon, Nov 21, 2022 at 12:03 PM Louis-Philippe Véronneau > wrote: >> >> On 2022-11-21 02 h 08, Julian Gilbey wrote: >>> I'm just flagging this up here, with a question about how we should >>> proceed. Certainly we are not ready to make Python 3.11 the default >>> Python version!! >> >> This is a concern I share and I think I've been pretty vocal about it. >> >> I feel the state of python packages for Bookworm with 3.10 was pretty >> good and it seemed reasonable to prioritize stability for our next >> stable release :) >> >> It's very frustrating to work on packaging python libraries and apps for >> a whole release cycle, just to see all that work put in the bin at the >> last minute because upstream doesn't support 3.11... > > this, 100 times I very much don't agree. I think it's going pretty well, and the number of breakage isn't high. We just need a little bit of effort to make it in good enough shape. >> I've been told the current 3.11 transition was a test, and if it was >> clear too many important things were broken and couldn't be fixed, we >> would roll back and release using 3.10. Though we're not there yet, as a point were we can say it's a lost battle. > why are we running a "test" this close to the release? Let me fix the above sentence for you: s/release/freeze/ Because Python 3.11 brings many nice feature, one of them being that it's 15 to 50% faster, very often 20% faster. Also, releasing the last Debian with an already obsolete interpreter version doesn't feel good. > *who* are we > running this test for? who made this decision (i figure RT gave the go > ahead, but still)? is there any searchable source for this claim? This was discussed during Debconf in Prizren. You are always free to: - join us during debconf - join on IRC if you can't go to Debconf - read the video and voice your concerns on the list So the decision was made collectively. We also discussed this on IRC, and in this very list, if I'm not mistaking (sorry, I will not search for it). Currently, Python 3.11 is only an "available interpreter version", not the default. So it's kind of easy to revert (we would "only" need to remove the 3.11 interpreter, and rebuild the packages that produce 3.11 so files). It would be a lot harder to revert having 3.11 as default, Mathias said/wrote. So we're good... I very much thank Stefano for the many fixes he already uploaded. Now, out of *many* of my packages, only a very few broke. Complicated packages like Eventlet for example, just worked. Others had upstream patches I applied. And I am in the opinion that we should go ahead and make 3.11 the default. I'd be happy to have the opinion of the rest of the team, especially Doko and Stefano. Cheers, Thomas Goirand (zigo)