Path: csiph.com!news.mixmin.net!aioe.org!bofh.it!news.nic.it!robomod From: Bastian Venthur Newsgroups: linux.debian.maint.python Subject: Re: upstream python concerns, python3-full package for bullseye Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2021 10:20:02 +0100 Message-ID: References: X-Original-To: debian-python@lists.debian.org X-Mailbox-Line: From debian-python-request@lists.debian.org Tue Feb 16 09:17:41 2021 Old-Return-Path: X-Amavis-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.886 tagged_above=-10000 required=5.3 tests=[BAYES_00=-2, FORGED_MUA_MOZILLA=2.309, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.25, LDO_WHITELIST=-5, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.105, SARE_MLH_Stock10=1.66] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Policyd-Weight: using cached result; rate: -4.6 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.7.1 Content-Language: en-US X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/19002 List-ID: List-URL: List-Archive: https://lists.debian.org/msgid-search/s0g2iu$9h1$1@ciao.gmane.io Approved: robomod@news.nic.it Lines: 33 Organization: linux.* mail to news gateway Sender: robomod@news.nic.it X-Original-Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2021 10:17:18 +0100 X-Original-Message-ID: X-Original-References: <20210211181234.GA4829@silverpine> <5c9a9365-20b9-c600-638c-6c74a024779a@debian.org> Xref: csiph.com linux.debian.maint.python:13219 On 12.02.21 01:11, Thomas Goirand wrote: > I understand that upstream python guys probably think the way to consume > python stuff is through venv, pip, and setuptools. I have a very > different view on this, and probably I'm not alone. > > We (Debian people) indeed prefer if our user can enjoy a packaged > versions of things if they are available (and that's not specific to > Python). In such a packaged environment, venv and distutils are useless, > as the distribution is taking care of all what these tools would do > without apt or dpkg. I do prefer my system to *not* have venv support, > for example. Being a Debian Developer myself, I have to disagree here. I *wish* I could just install everything via the Debian Packaging System, but the reality for most relevant Python packages is very different: packages are either outdated or do not exist in Debian -- heck, even PIP is outdated in a way that you actually have to `pip install -U pip` in order to use it properly due to the recent manylinux change. So at work, were we use Python, we basically use only Debian's minimal image and install a naked Python + pip. Then we upgrade pip to make it usable and then install every python package via pip. Cheers, Bastian -- Dr. Bastian Venthur https://venthur.de Debian Developer venthur at debian org