Path: csiph.com!weretis.net!feeder9.news.weretis.net!newsfeed.endofthelinebbs.com!news.corradoroberto.it!gothmog.csi.it!bofh.it!news.nic.it!robomod From: Jonas Smedegaard Newsgroups: linux.debian.devel Subject: Re: Reconsidering =?utf-8?q?Debian=E2=80=99s?= Inclusion of Non-Free Firmware - A Call for Discussion Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2025 14:40:01 +0100 Message-ID: References: X-Mailbox-Line: From debian-devel-request@lists.debian.org Mon Mar 10 13:39:16 2025 Old-Return-Path: X-Amavis-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.711 tagged_above=-10000 required=5.3 tests=[BAYES_00=-2, KHOP_HELO_FCRDNS=0.399, LDO_WHITELIST=-5, PGPSIGNATURE=-5, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_CERTIFIED_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_RPBL_BLOCKED=0.001, SARE_HEAD_8BIT_SPAM=0.888] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Policyd-Weight: using cached result; rate:hard: -4.6 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="pgp-sha512"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="===============7578136458529597187==" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: alot/0.0.0 X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/364947 List-ID: List-URL: List-Archive: https://lists.debian.org/msgid-search/174161391819.1558412.3088211795482296253@cairon.jones.dk Approved: robomod@news.nic.it Lines: 61 Organization: linux.* mail to news gateway Sender: robomod@news.nic.it X-Original-Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2025 14:38:38 +0100 X-Original-Message-ID: <174161391819.1558412.3088211795482296253@cairon.jones.dk> X-Original-References: <48a1f5284a386487a3a6a6aacac0886151733ff5.camel@debian.org> <87pliq6yj0.fsf@josefsson.org> <629ce3a13bc045144e05afd5b2ba5a43c60d974a.camel@debian.org> <87cyeq6uvj.fsf@josefsson.org> <89cdb558-84b2-41b1-b8e2-b19cc686d391@debian.org> Xref: csiph.com linux.debian.devel:116382 --===============7578136458529597187== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Quoting Marc Haber (2025-03-10 13:38:05) > On Mon, Mar 10, 2025 at 09:33:55PM +0900, Simon Richter wrote: > >We've reached the point where people are shitting on nV for the=20 > >quality of their drivers, and a kernel that has closed-source drivers=20 > >loaded is "tainted", and the last release in which we shipped=20 > >ndiswrapper was buster. >=20 > That happened because those solutions were all incredibly painful,=20 > depending on the kernel version in use, losing compatibly during every=20 > second kernel upgrade, and didn't work cross-architecture. Users hated=20 > that. >=20 > non-free firmware is silent and painless. Users don't care. >=20 > tl;dr: The situation is totally different, we should not compare apples=20 > and peaches here. Back then some users didn't care to fix things and some found it worthy of pouring hard work into. Similar today. - Jonas --=20 * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ * Sponsorship: https://ko-fi.com/drjones [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private --===============7578136458529597187== MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: signature Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc"; charset="us-ascii" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- wsG7BAABCgBvBYJnzuteCRAsfDFGwaABIUcUAAAAAAAeACBzYWx0QG5vdGF0aW9u cy5zZXF1b2lhLXBncC5vcmd52No8WzOKPcfQPFhoui7XYKgCh8xdqsX12BqPqE37 0hYhBJ/j6cNmkaaf9TzGhCx8MUbBoAEhAADi1Q/+NHnCtw5U0D/YKe3C5Savh0jn klCQG16VblgQpE/dnkHxrw7t3f4B9Vc+VLjX46UCbXNLiCeN4vhHboIgDjh4WA20 /yidlN/quuydcKb09kD/c7R1UAs1g8nho/eE6o2mfkHFjZ7OSmgBCZbbmKpZXmv/ HLkQuYeRWf4f0VlzQLP9l6eYVhv2cXrUtM2Sn0etJby+2ayv2Cp2nAF4+ilXZtd2 AJh2tIrJWJeMRq3NffkslcjFsT/Rr8w42Fm5ATc69M6zgVNW/GMNNeJoaFmoF4RI 9lCx4o8EsOkxkLAmcv7mmMRjy4sPtiETmTM86fZw9i05XYxhcSUhqYI4ydQVzMeR m4iea0yrNs11y1JCu+z9ZjLku2lWySdl6a2k+P4DKkTfExmEkmCT2w02E5fO022s 7hLMPPXq6sC4Y0HXXDuOyfoWRc/RzO3PyXvE5lrA8nvUaDjgXu0LQ0CCUSVqIwsZ 0AV8xukFLEN4D3A4Fp5VYJe+uznAEWUHrtf0Fe3Nqz3/D6bt5s/cYgVZLbYLAxU6 x6tsZG28vc8nsjyGBrJlwfpc1U4GpVfk/UtkhCN6LCxhyLGhv6oPC0YGiaaTjgw1 X/dJ5q70EZhL5LfF67xxQhmSrR8MpzOoBzxzbIMOz6ZQXJurKN8cCiG8+uZLxDEn w3XrJ6DjKdrP3fe72F8= =8V2D -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --===============7578136458529597187==--