Path: csiph.com!eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!mx02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler Newsgroups: comp.sys.raspberry-pi,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Is it a lost cause? Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2016 13:17:21 -0700 Organization: Wheeler&Wheeler Lines: 118 Message-ID: <878txieasu.fsf@garlic.com> References: <20160613210220.7d9874b5@maxa-pc.cpe.bvcom.net> <882320421.489093906.245873.laguest-archeia.com@nntp.aioe.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: mx02.eternal-september.org; posting-host="6a701f7a2f120c3c3ec794af16136f6c"; logging-data="15227"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1+5lV15nCUfUNKQUSl9H8MKtU8d49CRWcc=" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.5 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:bg7aC/Bp+D70TetmD58wZlvZdgU= sha1:GhMBTU3I+wDz91OFZQ0FZtqqzQ0= Xref: csiph.com comp.sys.raspberry-pi:12376 alt.folklore.computers:166442 Lew Pitcher writes: > - an IMS & DB2 based Online Banking system that guaranteed sub-second response > time for all financial and inquiry tansactions to well over 10000 active > VTAM-supported terminals spread from the Atlantic to the Pacific in Canada, > down the eastern seaboard in the US, and in many foreign countries (such as > Japan, England, Spain, etc.) > - a VTAM/TCPIP/MQSeries-based data transport (that, for reasons beyond my > paygrade was written in COBOL) that moved financial transactions between > internal mainframe systems, external mainframe systems, customer-based > mainframe systems, and our internal web services, again with sub-second > response time. IMS originally done DBMS for apollo program https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_Information_Management_System IMS group was later moved to STL (since renamed silicon valley lab). Original sql/relational was System/R done on vm370 370/145 at san jose research ... some past posts http://manana.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#systemr The followon to IMS DBMS was suppose to be EAGLE ... and while the corporation was preoccupied with EAGLE, it was possible to do tech transfer to Endicott for release as SQL/DS. Later when EAGLE imploded, they asked how fast would it take to port relational to MVS ... which is eventually released as DB2, originally for analytical & decision support *ONLY*). Along the way Jim Gray left IBM Research for Tandem ... and was palming stuff on to me ... consulting with the IMS group ... and helping support Bank of America ... an early System/R customer. I've mentioned this reference to meeting in Ellison's conference room Jan1992 on HA/CMP cluster scaleup. The Oracel senior VP in the meeting would periodically tell the story that he did the SQL/DS tech transfer from Endicott to STL for DB2 http://manana.garlic.com/~lynn/95.html#13 Along the way, the (mainframe) DB2 group was complaining if I was allowed to continue, it would be *at least* 5yrs ahead of anything they were doing. Within a few weeks of the Ellison meeting, cluster scaleup was transferred, announced as IBM supercomputer and we were told that we couldn't work on anything with more than four processors. old cluster scaleup email around Jan1992 period http://manana.garlic.com/~lynn/lhwemail.html#medusa ha/cmp posts http://manana.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#hacmp a little x-over with this post in the thread http://manana.garlic.com/~lynn/2016d.html#97 Is it a lost cause? my wife was in the JES group and worked on loosely-coupled JES2 & JES3 (co-author of JESUS which specified how to combine all the necessary features of JES2 & JES3 into single product ... which never happened). She was then con'ed into going to POK to be the (mainframe) loosely-coupled architect (mainframe for cluster). While there she did peer-coupled shared data architecture ... some past posts http://manana.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#shareddata she didn't remain long because 1) little uptake (except for IMS hotstandby until SYSPLEX and Parallel SYSPLEX) and 2) communication group was constantly trying to force her into using SNA/VTAM for loosely-coupled operation. In the mid-80s, IMS hot-standby got really interested in the SNA/NCP/VTAM emulator work. The problem was that while IMS hot-standby could fall over in minutes, VTAM session restart time (on the standby processor) grew non-linear, 20+k terminals could take 90mins elapsed time. It was straight-forward for the SNA/NCP/VTAM emulation to maintain (active) shadow sessions on the IMS standby processor so take-over for everything was a couple of minutes (instead of an hour or more). note that in the late70/early80s, there was a lot of work on subsecond interactive response. YKT research was touting they had the best online systems in the company with avg. quarter second system response. The issue was that local channel-attached 3272 controlers with 3277 terminals had .086 hardware response. To get quarter second human response, needed .164 system response. I had a number of online systems with 90th precentile .11 sec trivial system response ... for .196 second human response ... old post http://manana.garlic.com/~lynn/2001m.html#19 problem was that the replacement for 3272/3277 was 3274/3278 ... where they had moved a lot of electronics out of the terminal head back into the (shared) controller ... and hardware response tended to be betweeen .283 to .530 seconds (for best case, fastest, direct channel attached 3274 controller) ... making it impossible to achieve quarter second response seen by the human user. We made complaints to the 3274 about the worse human factors for 3274/3278 ... and were eventually told that 3274/3278 wasn't designed for interactive computing ... but for "data entry". past posts mentioning Thadhani publishing studies on showing improved human productivity with .25sec (or better) response (seen by human). http://manana.garlic.com/~lynn/2011d.html#53 3270 Terminal http://manana.garlic.com/~lynn/2011p.html#84 Is there an SPF setting to turn CAPS ON like keyboard key? http://manana.garlic.com/~lynn/2012.html#12 Who originated the phrase "user-friendly"? http://manana.garlic.com/~lynn/2012.html#13 From Who originated the phrase "user-friendly"? http://manana.garlic.com/~lynn/2012.html#15 Who originated the phrase "user-friendly"? http://manana.garlic.com/~lynn/2012b.html#2 The PC industry is heading for collapse http://manana.garlic.com/~lynn/2012d.html#19 Writing article on telework/telecommuting http://manana.garlic.com/~lynn/2012m.html#15 cp67, vm370, etc http://manana.garlic.com/~lynn/2012m.html#37 Why File transfer through TSO IND$FILE is slower than TCP/IP FTP ? http://manana.garlic.com/~lynn/2012n.html#37 PDP-10 and Vax, was System/360--50 years--the future? http://manana.garlic.com/~lynn/2012p.html#1 3270 response & channel throughput http://manana.garlic.com/~lynn/2013b.html#55 Dualcase vs monocase. Was: Article for the boss http://manana.garlic.com/~lynn/2014f.html#44 System Response http://manana.garlic.com/~lynn/2014m.html#127 How Much Bandwidth do we have? http://manana.garlic.com/~lynn/2016c.html#4 You count as an old-timer if (was Re: Origin of the phrase "XYZZY") http://manana.garlic.com/~lynn/2016c.html#8 You count as an old-timer if (was Re: Origin of the phrase "XYZZY") -- virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970