Path: csiph.com!usenet.pasdenom.info!weretis.net!feeder1.news.weretis.net!news.swapon.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail From: Jolly Roger Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.system Subject: Re: Latest IOS/OS X SSL security flaw Date: 25 Feb 2014 16:47:07 GMT Organization: People for the Ethical Treatment of Pirates Lines: 70 Message-ID: References: <220220141415089899%nospam@nospam.invalid> <2NWdnQXy6oxRY5XOnZ2dnUVZ_qSdnZ2d@giganews.com> X-Trace: individual.net MyZk6X4uMeCNwicouHXoRAF3VPpD42XaGkVOSXukR/9qhD9IDZ Cancel-Lock: sha1:1hVHQrhfxgZF75XUHs4bgj3W9To= X-Face: _.g>n!a$f3/H3jA]>9pN55*5<`}Tud57>1Y%b|b-Y~()~\t,LZ3e up1/bO{=-) User-Agent: slrn/1.0.1 (Darwin) Xref: csiph.com comp.sys.mac.system:57070 On 2014-02-25, Lewis wrote: > In message > Alan Browne wrote: >> On 2014.02.24, 18:17 , Jolly Roger wrote: >>> On 2014-02-24, Alan Browne wrote: >> >> Exactly. What Lewis is complaining about is that the white space >> influences the block control in python. > >> And it has its defenders ... > >> http://www.secnetix.de/olli/Python/block_indentation.hawk > > Someone got a bug up their ass about having a character pair that > clearly and explicitly delimits a logical block and decided to write a > language with the sole intent of not using that character pair. > > "Of course, you could resort to always use braces, no matter what, but > that's tiresome and bloats the source code, and it doesn't prevent you > from accidentally obfuscating the code by still having the wrong > indentation." > > "Tiresome" and "bloats the source code" are meaningless value > statements. A single { characer is much less 'bloat' than having to > indent 16 spaces to get 4 levels deep. That's my take on it as well. Python seems to enjoy making a point of being a total bitch to developers just to prove a very silly point. > To me, having explicit delimiters for a block is clear, much more clear > than simply relying on white space indentation. It's trivial to compose > a perfectly valid bit of python code where it's very difficult to see > where the logic is unless you use something >=4 spaces, and then the > code marches off the right side of the editor quite quickly (especially > if you accept the python default of *eight* spaces per tab. It ain't just to you... : ) There's no getting around the fact that Python is just plain fucking ugly and problematic in this respect. "Oops, I forgot to indent that %$*@ section" is one of the most common complaints during debugging sessions because of it. It's always been a complete turn-off for me. No thanks! > On mixing tabs and spaces: > > "If you move a piece of C source to an editor with different tabstops, > it will all look wrong (and possibly behave differently than it looks at > first sight)." > > This last part is pure FUD. The code will NOT magically change, but if > you mix tabs and spaces in Python, the code *will* break. This is > considered a "feature". Asshats. Paste in some code from a different > file and break your program for no apparent reason. Good plan, you > numpty morons. I and the developers with whom I work use a variety of editors with tabbed C, XSL, Java, and so on all the time without such manufactured "issues". FUD indeed. > Don't get me started on Python, I can go on for hours on how utterly > stupid the syntax requirements are, though really, the URL you pasted is > all the evidence anyone needs. I generally refuse to touch Python code. I have better things to do with my life. -- E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter. I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead. JR