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From: Unknown <dog@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: bash script problem ?
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2016 19:46:10 -0000 (UTC)
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On Thu, 17 Mar 2016 14:07:13 +0000, Joe Beanfish wrote:

> On Thu, 17 Mar 2016 11:00:14 +0000, Unknown wrote:
> 
>> On Wed, 16 Mar 2016 17:08:56 +0000, William Unruh wrote:
>> 
>>> On 2016-03-16, no.top.post@gmail.com <no.top.post@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> In article <>, Teemu Likonen <tlikonen@iki.fi> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> rich@example.invalid [2016-03-10 15:22:57Z] wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> > Step 1, don't use the legacy sh backtick substitution syntax for
>>>>> > this (because it cannot nest).  Use Bash's $() substitution
>>>>> > instead (because it can nest).
>>>>> 
>>>>> I agree that $() is better but ``'s can nest:=20
>>>>> 
>>>>>     $ echo Year: `date \`echo +%Y\``
>>>>>     Year: 2016
>>>>> 
>>>> That's spooky ! Who <associated> +%Y with "2016" ?
>>> 
>>> The command "date" did. This says to run the date command with the
>>> argument being the output of the echo command. In this case the latter
>>> as +%Y so this is running date +%Y which is the year in which the date
>>> command was run. The ouput is then the argument to the outter echo
>>> command.
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> Lets have some examples of nesting, without extra spooky-stuf.
>>> 
>>> extra spooky-stuf?
>>> man date
>>> 
>>> 
>> date `echo +%Y` == 2016
>> echo  `date \`echo +%M\`` == 33
>> echo  `date \`echo +%D\`` == 03/17/16 date `echo +%M` == 35
>> date `echo +%D` == 03/17/16
>> 
>> There's nesting: lisp; & there's concatenation/piping; but this is a
>> load of ad-hoc crap!
>> 
>> 
>> BTW `wily` is great for this.
>> No need to touch the kybrd.
> 
> <soapbox>
> Not crap, beauty. The command line lets you form things the original
> author didn't conceive of. Unlike most GUIs which only allow the small
> set of things the author thought to allow you to do.
> 
> Sure the above examples are contrived and one would normally just
>    date +%Y
> But in a more complex situation as your original script the ad-hoc
> ability of the command line is very useful and powerful. </soapbox>

We're losing each other.
1. ad-hoc is when there are many ways of "saying it" instead of having
a minimalist/limited syntax: like lego or bricks&mortat or lisp.
When I looked at Ruby I remember you could <terminate statements with
";" or not>. That's bad. Redundancy is to be avoided.

2. GUI usually means 'cartoon based' - US-style.
 <mouse based> text means you execute a 50-char command with one-action,
 without;
1. need to rememeber it - you recognise and select it from a menu;
2. no need to look away from the screen and lose 'focus'.

Here's an example of what wily does for me [ETHOberon is better because
it's got colors, which helps decode my cryptic short-hand]:

Mwt <-- writes the TextToSpeech-Menu for Wily; which looks like:-
1=Select DestName & M2M1: |Arg1 to /mnt/h15/var/CONTROL/WtmpL
2=Append Text Selection & M2 |Apnd1 : to tail -2 /var/CONTROL/WApnd 
3=M2 DLt2wavMul : <1>.mp3 to /mnt/h14/home/crg/mul/    ^  M2M1  rm

As stated, this mess is better understood with colors.
The task is to copy text to <speech>.mp3 to a mobile phone.
There are 2 args:
1. the text-stretch, identified by its begin and end;
2. the chosen name of the *.mp3

But I wanted to make it more versatile by being able to append pieces
of text to a buffer,to a get a minimum of 5 minutes speech.
If I see a suitable name anywhere on the screen, it's 2 cliks to select
that name: 1 to <select> it plus a klux[mouse chord] on "|Arg1" in line 1.

I must first delete the buffer contents of the previous job.
 This needs 2 cliks:
1. select "/mnt/h15/var/CONTROL/WtmpL" which is the buffer @ line 2;
2. <chord> on "rm" in line 3

To mark the text-stretch to be appended to the buffer, need2 2 cliks
on the start and end. 2+2=4

Finally 1 clik on line 3's DLt2wavMul, converts the buufer's text to
 <chosenName>.mp3 ready to be used.

mouse chording listed as "M2M1" to remind me, means press buttom-2
and button-1, is handled better with ETHOberons colors [from where
wily, the PublicDomain version of plan9's acme is COPIED]

ETHOberon would write the 2 clik commands in green and the 2 chords
in red, which is more intuitive than needing to read & decode "M2M1".

NB. the designers of unix, went on to make plan9, to do it properly;
-- from what I've read.
Don't confuse menu-driven, point-and-chord with cartoon-based systems.

OTOH for users doing what they are familiar with, and it's all in their
head, reflex-like piano-playing is OK, since they don't need to see the
screen. Your dog catches a ball by reflex too.
 
PS. you notice I've got:
  tail -2 /var/CONTROL/WApnd 
which I can just wipe & clik, to see if the buffer is clean, or what
was the last text appended.

That's 26 + 1 = 27 keystrokes for piano-players.