Path: csiph.com!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: RonB Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy Subject: Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2025 02:57:40 -0000 (UTC) Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 60 Message-ID: References: <1irOP.851750$d51.585824@fx46.iad> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2025 04:57:40 +0200 (CEST) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="cff47fe593093319d3745b398c4898d4"; logging-data="1547724"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX19ApYuOYSLxA5jZ3WE5/hZU" User-Agent: slrn/1.0.3 (Linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:NH5ElY/l4qd2cP6MCG4xh/ZA7Ms= Xref: csiph.com comp.os.linux.advocacy:689484 On 2025-04-25, Borax Man wrote: > On 2025-04-24, CrudeSausage wrote: >> On 2025-04-24 09:31, Borax Man wrote: >>> On 2025-04-24, RonB wrote: >>>> On 2025-04-23, CrudeSausage wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> By GNOME 50 next year upstream could completely remove its X11 session >>>>> support. >>>> >>>> Fortunately I can choose something NOT Fedora. If they go through with this, >>>> adios Fedora on the laptop I never use. >>>> >>>> Non-problem solved. >>>> >>> This was one of the reasons I left Fedora and went to Debian. I had >>> been tired of the frequent release cycle, and some of the politics, but >>> the fact they would be earlier than other distros in deprecating X11 >>> pushed me to Debian. Nothing against Wayland per-se, but it breaks some >>> X applications, and my Window Manager. >>> >>> The "developers" today are terrible, constantly breaking everything all >>> the time. How they feel it is acceptable to constantly break peoples >>> workflows is beyond me. Sheer arrogance. >> >> I went to Ubuntu specifically because I wanted Wayland (for touchpad >> gestures) and a proper support for the NVIDIA proprietary driver. The >> only issues I have are that the audio becomes distorted when using >> speakers and an external _if_ I play a game in Heroic Games Launcher >> (but there's no reason to believe it's Wayland anyway since the problem >> does not occur if I don't use an external monitor or speakers) and I >> can't add a bookmark directly into the sidebar in Brave (it could be a >> Brave issue but it doesn't occur in the same version of Brave used on >> Cinnamon and X11). Other than that, it's better in every way. >> > > I don't have a problem with change, but don't break users workflows. > Don't break userspace. > > I understand the problems with X11, and supporting legacy, but you can't > just throw out decades of work and break it because its hard. > > There is a reason that C and C++ are still around, despite their issues. > There is a lot of work behind them, a lot of infrastructure, knowledge, > methods, code. There is a cost, a big cost in rebuilding everything > (re-write it in rust!), to just go back to where you were. q Windows > suffered because of its backwards compatibility, but it was also its > strength. The ONE thing I think Windows did better than Linux when I > shifted, was being able to run older and newer binaries. It meant > cruft, it meant extra work, but programs didn't break, and that was the > point of the OS. > > Users, not developers, end up deciding how the ecosystem work. That's why I think it's a plus, not a minus, to have many multiple Linux distributions. No one company can control Linux's future. -- “Evil is not able to create anything new, it can only distort and destroy what has been invented or made by the forces of good.” —J.R.R. Tolkien