Path: csiph.com!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!diablo1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!peer01.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!fx03.iad.POSTED!not-for-mail MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Betterbird (Linux) Subject: Re: Fedora proposing to remove X11 Gnome Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy References: <1irOP.851750$d51.585824@fx46.iad> <364QP.125792$oJg.4439@fx17.iad> <0OSQP.28898$AoB5.17918@fx09.iad> Content-Language: en-US, en-CA From: CrudeSausage In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 109 Message-ID: X-Complaints-To: abuse@usenet-news.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 03 May 2025 00:15:40 UTC Organization: usenet-news.net Date: Fri, 2 May 2025 20:15:40 -0400 X-Received-Bytes: 7326 Xref: csiph.com comp.os.linux.advocacy:689895 On 2025-05-02 20:11, Borax Man wrote: > On 2025-05-02, CrudeSausage wrote: >> On 2025-05-02 11:20, Borax Man wrote: >> >> < snipped for brevity > >> >>>> I think that Linux would have been adopted faster in the late 90s has >>>> the Linux zealots at the time not been lying through their teeth and >>>> claiming that Linux was stable and worked perfectly across the board. >>>> Most people didn't know a thing about repositories and installing >>>> software through, didn't understand what open-source was and what its >>>> benefits could be and definitely weren't open to persevering with the >>>> operating system when their hardware didn't work the way that it should. >>>> >>> >>> >>> I don't think that would have made much of a difference. With lack of >>> support for hardware, and games, and MS Office, I think they were the >>> dealbreakers. I do think they were a bit, not dishonest, but >>> misleading. It was said that Linux helped you learn more about the >>> computer, but in really you learn about Linux, not the computer (at >>> least not the hardware, that is abstracted away from you). >>> >>> The whole "Free Software" thing was also a big misdirect. You don't get >>> much freedom from being able to modify and redistribute the modified >>> source code. I started using Linux before I knew about this, but this >>> evangelism was mostly meaningless to people who didn't have the skills >>> to actually make significant change to the kernel, or any of the >>> programs. I felt this "benefit" was just Linux evangelists reaching for >>> something, and being unaware, by design, of reality. >>> >>> Linux (and Unix like systems) actually offer freedom because you have >>> choices of workflows, of tools, and you are able to compose things >>> together. The freedom comes because you can craft your own experience, >>> NOT because of the GPL. Too much was made of the GPL being freedom. >> >> I enjoy the freedom of knowing that the operating system I am running >> today will run just as well on this machine in five years. People don't >> realize how refreshing that it until they start realizing how much money >> they've been spending on technology, trying to keep up over a decade or >> so. Things become obsolete, but there is no reason for them to be >> replaced within three years the way that they used to in the 90s. Linux >> allows us to prevent that from happening. >> > > The desktop I'm typing this message on, I build in 2009. I have not had > a need to upgrade, except for a scant few games I would not mind > playing. Just a few games, thats it. Because I don't game, there is no > other issue, at all, with having this "old" PC. It runs fine in every > other way. > > This was why when my wife wanted a new Apple, I talked her into a Linux > box. WE don't want to be in the situation where software goes obsolete, > and the new OS cannot be installed anymore. That's the kind of life I want to have. Constantly buying new hardware is just ridiculous, especially since the demands of technology aren't changing all that much. Web sites are mostly the same today as they were back then, only video games are becoming increasingly demanding (all the while not looking any different). >>>> I had a lot of luck with the SUSE Linux versions back in the late 90s >>>> and early 2000s. Tumbleweed was also the first Linux to work perfectly >>>> on my old MSI for suspend (admittedly, Linux worked perfectly on my old >>>> AMD-centric Dell laptop in the late 2000s). Windows has always been fine >>>> for me, but I would also reinstall that thing once every three months or >>>> so. Even in that short time though, it managed to screw up from an >>>> update or corrupted system files. >>>> >>>> >>> >>> I could not stand at all, formatting and reinstalling. I customise my >>> system, and losing all those settings, those small changes you make, >>> like that file I added to stop the windows key screwing up the full >>> screen DOS prompt. You've got to do them all again, and remember what >>> you did. That was one of my top 3 pet peeves that moved me away from >>> Windows. Perhaps top one. I very, very rarely reinstall. One I install >>> an OS, I expect it to remain until the computer dies. I've only >>> reinstalled Linux maybe three times in the last 10 -15 years. Once to >>> jump from Fedora 11 to 18 or something, the other two to switch two >>> computers to Debian. >> >> Funny enough, the one feature I find most useful in Linux is the cursor >> automatically becoming gigantic if you lose track of it. When I want to >> highlight a word or a text to kids who see a duplicate of my screen, >> simply jiggling my mouse around makes the cursor huge. It seems so >> trivial, but it's a fantastic feature of KDE for teaching. I can manage >> losing some customization myself, but only because I got used to it from >> the constant formatting of the 1990s. With age, it is admittedly >> becoming more of a chore which is partly why I set up Timeshift to >> ensure that I can keep my desktop running. >> > > The last time I had to reinstall a system because it broke was over 20 > years ago. And when that happened, I probably could have fixed it, but > I didn't take backups (bad idea!). > > My daughter has a laptop for school with Windows 11. Today its going to > become a dual boot machine. I'm a little undecided on the distro, either > Linux Mint, Linux Mint Debian edition or plain Debian. She agreed to using Linux? Women are harder to sell on the idea. -- God be with you, CrudeSausage KDE & LibreOffice supporter John 14:6